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View Full Version : Owner of NY Aquatics: "stop using TTM, it's barbaric"


joecc
09/21/2017, 07:52 AM
Thoughts???



At the risk of starting a war, please see thread title.

TTM is, in my not so humble opinion, one of the worst things to hit the hobby in my 20+ years doing it. Why do people love it? In my opinion, it comes down to two things:

1) I call it the **** (online vendor) effect. Back in the day, they invented 14 day guarantees. That shifts the financial burden of QTing from customer to supplier. In short, people don't so much care, or at least don't feel the $ pinch, of QT losses. Trading QT losses for safer display makes economic sense with guarantee. But it's barbaric. We have an obligation to do what we can to assure the survival of the fish we purchase.
2) People love to brag/post about their prowess in the hobby. Hey look, we have this new QT protocol and my fish came through it great. And thus it spreads. People are MUCH MUCH less likely to post-man I"m an idiot. I tried this new method and killed a bunch of fish. Don't make the same mistake I did.

Why do I think TTM is horrible:

1) Fish when shipped, or even moved from store to home, are by definition highly stressed. You're now taking this stressed fish and putting it in a way too small, totally uncycled, often unfiltered tank. It violates every tenet the hobby was built on.
2) Letting a new fish repeatedly go through a tank cycle, and fighting against it with water changes and TT is super stressful on already stressed fish. Sure, some fish survive it, but way too many don't.
3) repeatedly catching and moving new arrivals from tank to tank also highly stressful
4) I understand the biology of TTM and in theory it is very effective in treating ich. Since all parasites have different life cycles, it is ONLY effective against ich, and ignores all other issues. Why focus QT attention on a single problem, when there are lots of potential issues, all of which will be made worse by having super stressed out fish.
5) Ich is the easiest issue to deal with in QT. If you see it, a quick course of cupramine is 100% effective, MUCH MUCH cheaper and easier, and much much much much much less stressful on fish than TTM.

I absolutely 100% do not see any sense in TTM

Better to have a proper QT tank, observe new arrivals and treat as necessary.

Michael
Last edited by a moderator: Yesterday at 10:19 PM
Michael Stern
[email protected]
WWW.NYAquatic.com

sde1500
09/21/2017, 08:49 AM
You know, I totally get where he is coming from. I am really not a a fan of TTM. Tried it a few times, really hated it. Trying to get fish to settle in and eat, they are cowering among the PVC, they finally come out after a couple days to eat, then I'm upending everything getting them into a new tank. Next round of fish will be QT, but not TTM.

JustinM
09/21/2017, 12:40 PM
I don't like TTM but I also don't like receiving my fish from NY Aquatics at 1.009 either.

Dmorty217
09/22/2017, 09:51 AM
I am not a fan of TTM either

Rilelen
09/22/2017, 09:53 PM
Also not a fan of TTM, for most of the reasons listed here. Much prefer keeping an established mature QT with LR, alongside a hospital tank for medicating.

scuzy
09/22/2017, 10:37 PM
Well I'm a fan of it. It works for me cause I never lost a fish since.


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lagatbezan
09/22/2017, 10:58 PM
I guess I'm also one of those barbaric people who uses TTM lol.
I personally think it is just as stressful when doing water changes every few days to the qt as when you do a transfer. Except the fish is not being treated unnecessary with poision when not needed. Also I feel it's much less stressful for me. I don't have to constantly worry about evaporation and copper levels changing, adjusting, overdosing, testing or ammonia spikes.
I use 10g tanks and do tank transfer every 48 hours for a total of 6 transfers and then into a 30g observation tank with a couple of pieces of live rock that I Keep in my sump.
When done, the rocks get a bleach bath and then muriatic acid bath and then in the sump they go again.

Naraku
09/24/2017, 07:51 PM
+1. I don't like receiving fish that don't eat from NYA. Then being sent a replacement (after constant reminders) that still didn't eat and died. Then being told that nothing could be done.

TTM was not done on this fish so not blaming TTM here.

I don't like TTM but I also don't like receiving my fish from NY Aquatics at 1.009 either.

Gladmaker
09/24/2017, 08:11 PM
After reading through all the posts, I have no idea what TTM is. After you've been on this forum for a while, you assume everyone knows all of the abbreviations. What is TTM?

elFloyd
09/24/2017, 08:28 PM
Tank Transfer Method

CoralsAddiction
09/24/2017, 09:02 PM
A lot of people, myself included, share some of the sentiment expressed by NYA. However, there is a pretty good number of hobbyists that swear by TTM. Snorvich, a very knowledgeable and influential RC Team member is probably the strongest advocate of TTM not only on RC but in the entire hobby. People read his posts and take his advice. It works for some people but not everyone as you can see by reading some of the comments in this very thread.
Bottom line is, we all get comfortable with a routine that works for us individually based on the track record and convenience. I used to use a pretty aggressive QT protocol with formalin baths and copper treatment but for the last two years or so I've been putting new arrivals through hyposalinity and Prazipro with occasional formalin baths.

Here's Snorvich's take on TTM:
http://reefcentral.com/forums/blog.php?b=782