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Maeva83
09/22/2017, 05:20 PM
Hello! I really need your help. I have a 120 gallons + a 30 gallons sump. Since 2 week my fish have developed oodinium. Since that time they are in hyposalinity at 1.009. I have already lost 5 fish including my beatiful majestic Angel. My fish breathe quickly and shake their head. Do you think a Cupramine treatment is a good idea during hyposalinity? Or do you have any other idea, Thank you!

lagatbezan
09/22/2017, 05:58 PM
No do not combine hypo with copper. It's not recommended.
Shaking of the head could be symptoms of flukes which you would need to treat with prazipro. I believe you can do that with hypo. Just make sure to provide good oxygen exchange since it will depleted the oxygen in the water.

Dmorty217
09/22/2017, 07:30 PM
Do you have pictures of the fish? How did you diagnose oodinium? I agree with lagatbezan, sounds like flukes to me. Virtually all angels come in with flukes, especially from the whole salers tanks. Praziquantel powder or prazipro for treatment

Maeva83
09/22/2017, 08:12 PM
Hi! I have all those fish for awile (5 years) but in my other tank I have a asymptomatic carrier fish of this disease. I think is my sailfin tang. I did not add new fish.

I don't have any good picture of my sick fish.

Jdub968
09/22/2017, 08:26 PM
hypo will not cure velvet cu or cp post a pick but if you have lost that many fish that quick its probably velvet

Jdub968
09/22/2017, 08:37 PM
Just for the sake of time on your fishes behalf I would give them either a freshwater dip or an Acriflavine bath this will buy u some time while raising SG. Continue with The dips until you get your SG up to imo 1.020 and start adding cuor cp every day with your WC increasing SG to around 1.022-23

lagatbezan
09/22/2017, 10:06 PM
Copper is not the best treatment when done in the main tank that has rocks and substrate since they will absorbed it. It's best done in a qt.
While at hypo, you need to make sure you are using a correctly calibrated refractometer. also you need to keep an eye on your ph as well as ammonia. You will definitely have some die offs that will required water changes to keep ammonia 0. Ammonia is just as deadly as some parasites.

Jdub968
09/22/2017, 10:31 PM
Copper is not the best treatment when done in the main tank that has rocks and substrate since they will absorbed it. It's best done in a qt.
While at hypo, you need to make sure you are using a correctly calibrated refractometer. also you need to keep an eye on your ph as well as ammonia. You will definitely have some die offs that will required water changes to keep ammonia 0. Ammonia is just as deadly as some parasites.

Yes this is correct cu or cp needs to be in a qt but your wasting your time with hypo IT WILL NOT CURE VELVET neither will ttm your going to need to get them into a qt

Maeva83
09/22/2017, 11:11 PM
In this case how I proceed? I increase the salinity and I transfert my fish in a quarantaine tank? That will take some time! To add to the list my Naso start to have cloudy eyes. What treatment is the best in my situation? Thank you!

Maeva83
09/22/2017, 11:24 PM
I forget to write they often stand (All the night) in the flow of my pump near the surface. Strange!

lagatbezan
09/22/2017, 11:25 PM
Flukes can get in the eyes and make them look cloudy. Your symptoms are starting to look more like flukes to me. If flukes you need to treat with prazipro.
You have a few options as mentioned by everyone and need to figure out which one works the best for you for the ich treatment.
If you gonna bring the sg up you need to do it really slowly over a few days minimum. Raising it up too quickly can do more harm.
Some great info here:
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2389659

Jdub968
09/22/2017, 11:45 PM
I forget to write they often stand (All the night) in the flow of my pump near the surface. Strange!

This is a dead give away for velvet the cloudy eyes are like hundreds of parasites covering the fish is the whole fish covered with a whitish or velvet looking coat? One distinct sign of velvet is the fish swim into the current of a pump or power head. Post a pic I'm positive this is velvet not ich not flukes. Attached photo are velvet look at the eyes

Maeva83
09/23/2017, 01:37 AM
My fish look exactly like your picture before dying. Now it look like it attacks more the gills and less the skin.

Jdub968
09/23/2017, 09:50 AM
You don't have a lot of time with velvet so here's my suggestion get a qt big enough to hold what fish you have left set the SG @1.020 and aclimate your fish just as if you were bring home a new fish. Give each fish a fresh water dip as you add them to the qt if you can get cp that would be best however if you cannot put half a dose of cu in the qt wait 24 hrs and start dosing the other half. Add a .1-.2 every half HR or so until you have reached a thereputic level of cu. cupramine is thereputic at .35 chelated cu is thereputic at 1.5 ppm you will need a test kit this is a must for cu cupramine use seachem or salifert kit, chelated you can use a seachem kit it just takes 20or so minutes to get a reading however I would use an api for chelated cu. you will want to get cupramine eventually up to .5 ppm and chelated at 2ppm. This is hard on the fish bringing cu levels up fast but if you don't they probably are going to die, that's why cp is the preferred drug for velvet its dose at 60 mgs per gallon. If you have a wrasse do not use cp on it. Treat these fish at least 30 days in the mean time the DT will have to sit fallow for at least 6 weeks for velvet. I you can get Acriflavine ms of ruby reef rally and give each fish a bath this is an anticeptic and will greatly increase your chance of success it will help stop a bacterial infection which is a common thing with velvet. Good luck

lagatbezan
09/23/2017, 10:44 AM
+1 ^
Velvet is a super fast killer. You need to act fast.

JustinM
09/23/2017, 05:44 PM
Cupramine is not therapeutic at .3, .35 is needed. I would still keep it more towards .45 so you have a little margin of error.

After your freshwater dip, do an acriflavine bath with ruby reef rally. As a lot of the throphonts fall off the fish from the FW dip, they may be prone to bacterial infections, the acriflavine is an antiseptic.

Get them to therapeutic fast! If you do these 3 steps, FW dip(provides relief from removing the mucous off the gills), acriflavine, then therapeutic copper(I put my fish into .35 on the first dose, and they were wrasses), all my fish survived velvet.

Good luck!

Maeva83
09/23/2017, 05:49 PM
You suggest a drip for acclimatization to my fish?

JustinM
09/23/2017, 06:44 PM
You're going to have to raise it up to a min of 1.017 before I would add any copper. As Jdub stated, FW dips will buy you time but I wouldn't perform more than one a day. I would try to get up to 1.017 in a few days.

Maeva83
09/24/2017, 01:02 PM
I try To show you a picture of my sick yellow tang, watch the tail.

Dmorty217
09/24/2017, 01:09 PM
Chloroquine Phosphate or you can perform a series of formalin baths followed by putting them in a new tank that isn't infected with velvet. Chloroquine is your only real option

Maeva83
09/24/2017, 01:23 PM
Any idea where I can find it in Canada?

JustinM
09/24/2017, 01:32 PM
Cupramine will easily treat velvet too!

Jdub968
09/24/2017, 07:49 PM
Cp In The states is prescription only unless you you wanna take a chance on eBay and buy from someone that might be selling you something else. Not sure about Canada also if you have a wrasse cp shouldn't be used on them

Maeva83
09/24/2017, 09:25 PM
I'm going to try with the Cupramine, less complicated! Until now I have increased the salinity to 1.015. Today my golden dwarf eel is dead and my Naso don't want to eat anything. I'm really sad! Tomorrow is better if I add half the dose or all the dose?

JustinM
09/25/2017, 03:43 AM
What other fish do you have? I'm sorry about your eel but he wouldn't have been able to have cupramine for treatment?

Maeva83
09/25/2017, 06:12 AM
Mostly tang, foxface, clown, raccoon butterfly and trigger.

tastyfish
09/25/2017, 06:53 AM
Mostly tang, foxface, clown, raccoon butterfly and trigger.

I can't comment on the butterfly and trigger, but I would certainly be looking to use Chloroquine (Phosphate) CP from an online pharmacy (you can state you are headed to the Dominican republic for a few weeks if needed).

I've just come out of the back of a velvet outbreak which lost 40% of my stock including my favourites.

Personally I would get the largest QT tank you can and treat in there, using formalin baths as suggested. I have successfully treated your other fish with CP for velvet, although there are CP resistant strains (lets hope it's not one of these).

You will need to get some sort of biological filtration going as ammonia is going to be your enemy. CP is nice and simple and also means that you can treat with your current salinity.

Do not use copper with the current levels as others have pointed out, it will be toxic.

If you are running hypo in the display tank, have already removed inverts, algae etc, then I have seen people dose CP into the display - but it's NOT something I would recommend and you will have significant ammonia problems.

Another advantage of CP at this stage is that you can use Prime, Ammo lock or similar to help with the ammonia levels - something you must not use with copper as it will turn toxic.

Good luck and hope you can bring the rest through

Jdub968
09/25/2017, 10:50 AM
Here's is a link to what fish can be treated with which method https://www.*********.com/threads/fish-and-treatment-guidelines-with-chart.283450/ your going to have to add enough cupramine to get your tank at a thereputic level right away here's the math for cupramine.
.381x (cu concentration)x(actual water volume)=mgs to dose. So here's you equation to get .35 cu which is thereputic for cupramine
.381x.35x actual water volume in your tank =mgs to dose
Get a syringe from your pharmacy and use it it's the more accurate way to dose cu also you will need a cu test kit for cupramine use seachem or salifert and test daily also don't be surprised if you dose the cu and 24 hrs later it reads low that is common you will have to test daily at minimum to keep levels thereputic

Maeva83
09/25/2017, 05:24 PM
Today I lost my Naso and my blue throat trigger. My other fish don't look good. I start to dose Cupramine. To complicated to have cp.

Jdub968
09/25/2017, 06:17 PM
Agreed use whatever you can get your hands on asap no time to waste. Also as you catch them give them a freshwater dip this will help

Maeva83
10/15/2017, 01:08 PM
Hi everyone! I think and I hope the crisis is behind me. My two tank become infected because they are close. As a result I lost a lot of fish. The remaining fish are my raccoon butterfly, my foxface, my blue hippo tang and my zebra eel, in my other tank.

I have a few questions. Do you think the survivor fish will become healthy carrier? What can I do with my tank? I traited my main tank with Cupramine but I have removed my LR before. What can I do with my contaminated rock? Thank you!

JustinM
10/15/2017, 02:51 PM
Your rock will need to stay in a separate tank for 6 weeks for velvet.

Some of your fish should be treated with CP and some with copper. Did you already start treatment?

Jdub968
10/15/2017, 10:23 PM
If I'm understanding your questions correctly.
1- as long as you treated the fish for 30 days and it was done correctly then no your fish will not be carriers.
2- your DT will be contaminated with copper the sand the rock. I think you should let the tank sit fallow for 6 weeks min as Justinm suggested and during the time I would run cuprasorb or carbon during the fallow period to remove all copper from the sand.
3- it might be best to replace your rock And sand and beings you treated the fish in the DT this concerns me about how effective the copper treatment will be.
Did you keep the copper levels thereputic for 30 days and confirm it was therapeutic with a copper test? It is very difficult to keep copper thereputic in the presence of sand and rock.