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View Full Version : attn: modern commercial sump designers


Gary Majchrzak
09/23/2017, 08:50 AM
You are shooting yourself in the foot.
Please make your sumps "reversible" (ie: so flow can travel from right to left).
Stop making the "back wall" of your sumps opaque!

And some of you don't believe in filter socks so you don't include a sock holder.
Not smart!

And I want the option of a lid covering the WHOLE sump.
Leave it up to the aquarist whether or not to run a section uncovered!

And for goodness sakes what about external pumps?
Some of us still prefer them.

It looks like I'll be converting another glass aquarium to a sump again.
I figure to save at least $200 (but probably more!) and end up with something I can actually use!

Breadman03
09/23/2017, 09:37 AM
There’s a brand new 120 with a broken and missing center brace in my basement. I purchased it for a song just to make a sump. I’m just not sure exactly how I want it set up.

ca1ore
09/23/2017, 09:38 AM
That why most 'serious' reefers make their own sump. It's trivial to do and you get exactly what you want. The next commercial sump I buy will be the first commercial sump I buy.

Gary Majchrzak
09/23/2017, 09:40 AM
long time no see!

The good news: you can make that sump exactly how you want it!

Want 300watt (long length) heaters?
Want liverock or Chaeto or both?

Keep it simple. KISS! Cheap and effective!

Gary Majchrzak
09/23/2017, 09:46 AM
That why most 'serious' reefers make their own sump. It's trivial to do and you get exactly what you want. The next commercial sump I buy will be the first commercial sump I buy.
I run a 75 gallon DIY sump right now. I'll be damned if I pay $500 for something smaller than what I already have.

billdogg
09/23/2017, 09:47 AM
^^^x 1000^^^

I could never understand the "need" to buy a sump when it is so incredibly simple to make your own.

As for "The next commercial sump I buy will be the first commercial sump I buy", me too.

ca1ore
09/23/2017, 09:12 PM
Plenty of better ways to waste money in this hobby than buying an overpriced sump with less than optimal utility. Mine is a repurposed oceanic 150. The only trouble with making your own sump is that inevitable moment, after its in use, when you realize the list of things you could have done better. I'm up to 5 so far.

DogueDeBordeaux
09/23/2017, 11:00 PM
None of them are adding extra intake ports for Bean Animal drains. Most are usually two-1 inch bulkheads for the drains.
I like the the first compartment that overflows into the socks. Looks like it would make changing them out easier, and able to submerge the drains. Since so many have problems with socks clogging quickly having more than 2 would be nice. For people not using socks the media cups could be used.

I have never bought a sump either, but currently looking at whats available.

Fredfish
09/23/2017, 11:44 PM
I can't see buying a commercial sump either. I don't want tiny cramped compartments that are hard to work with.

Some of them sure are purdy though.

ReefCowboy
09/24/2017, 09:08 AM
I went with a local acrylic custom builder, best thing Ive ever done. Designed one that best fit the inside of the stand, with all features I needed.

If you want to do a glass one, DIY is very easy, while making it look very good. IMO using cheap tanks as sumps is a bad move, as sumps are also a neat place to visit just like the tank.

fcmatt
09/24/2017, 09:31 AM
I think Cadillac sumps are a part of this hobby's one up man ship kind of mentality. When someone wants the best up top you either go super large or nada. Because many can afford the best up top as well. The difference between setups is often down below now to differentiate the omg setups from the ho-hum. In the end what is in the tank rules it all but that is harder then spending money. :-)

Every hobby has this segment. Nothing wrong with it. After all it trickles down to the rest of us eventually.

shaginwagon13
09/24/2017, 04:05 PM
You are shooting yourself in the foot.
Please make your sumps "reversible" (ie: so flow can travel from right to left).
Stop making the "back wall" of your sumps opaque!

And some of you don't believe in filter socks so you don't include a sock holder.
Not smart!

And I want the option of a lid covering the WHOLE sump.
Leave it up to the aquarist whether or not to run a section uncovered!

And for goodness sakes what about external pumps?
Some of us still prefer them.

It looks like I'll be converting another glass aquarium to a sump again.
I figure to save at least $200 (but probably more!) and end up with something I can actually use!

And for this reason I make my own sumps. None out there are built the way I want, and custom ones are insanely expensive.

I am trying a combination of stock tanks and sumps for my current system.

HippieSmell
09/24/2017, 06:00 PM
I had mine custom made along with my tank. It's nice and simple, but some of the new sumps with built in roller filters look pretty nice.

Rene Obergfell
09/27/2017, 06:05 AM
Ca1ore
What’s your list of 5 things?

Sumps are simple in their purpose.

The led lights give a nice touch to a sump

jacksonpt
09/27/2017, 08:52 AM
Agreed, both with Gary's original point and Ca1ore's sentiment about hindsight improvements.

tkeracer619
09/28/2017, 12:17 AM
I've got this sweet custom 3/4" acrylic sump made by AGE.

Most off the shelf sumps you buy are made for the avg user. If you are looking for something exactly to your specs you either make it for yourself or custom order it.

https://c2.staticflickr.com/4/3926/33048453720_1b2e810aa8_c.jpg

I'm using bags and external pumps...

https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2872/33217134664_b6ee746a8e_c.jpg

HippieSmell
09/28/2017, 03:14 PM
Horses for courses, but who doesn't think the dreambox with roller filter is awesome?

http://royalexclusiv.com/Dreamboxen/Dreambox-filter-sytems-3-0:::58_129.html

Gary Majchrzak
09/28/2017, 03:42 PM
You have a rollermat(?)
Why didn't you pay several thousands more and get that box of wet dreams?

ca1ore
09/28/2017, 03:51 PM
Ca1ore
What’s your list of 5 things?

Sumps are simple in their purpose.

The led lights give a nice touch to a sump

I repurposed an old oceanic 150 as my sump, with DiY baffles. If you know those tanks, they came with a large center glass brace, so ....

1. Should have removed the brace or at least ground a hole in it to make lighting the chaeto refugium easier.
2. Need another hole in one side for my chiller pump.
3. 30" is too tall for a sump, cannot reach the bottom easily.
4. Return section too small; refugium unnecessarily large
5. Should have plumbed 1 1/2" to my main pump rather than just 1".

ca1ore
09/28/2017, 03:53 PM
Did I read that right ...... $7.5K for a sump ...... A fool and his money. They do look nice though :lol:

Pslreefer
09/28/2017, 04:14 PM
My sump is a stock tank [emoji106]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

d2mini
09/29/2017, 07:24 AM
You are shooting yourself in the foot.
Please make your sumps "reversible" (ie: so flow can travel from right to left).
Stop making the "back wall" of your sumps opaque!

And some of you don't believe in filter socks so you don't include a sock holder.
Not smart!

And I want the option of a lid covering the WHOLE sump.
Leave it up to the aquarist whether or not to run a section uncovered!

And for goodness sakes what about external pumps?
Some of us still prefer them.

It looks like I'll be converting another glass aquarium to a sump again.
I figure to save at least $200 (but probably more!) and end up with something I can actually use!

This is why I go custom with something like a LifeReef or Building An Obsession.
Built exactly how I need it.

Funny about the socks though... i usually have the opposite problem... finding sumps that do NOT run sock! Not a fan. ;)

MrsReefK
09/29/2017, 08:51 AM
This is why I go custom with something like a LifeReef or Building An Obsession.

Built exactly how I need it.



Funny about the socks though... i usually have the opposite problem... finding sumps that do NOT run sock! Not a fan. ;)


+1 on custom. We have a custom LifeReef sump as well and wouldn't go any other way.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

HippieSmell
09/29/2017, 08:58 AM
You have a rollermat(?)
Why didn't you pay several thousands more and get that box of wet dreams?
The Wetdreambox (trademark) was but a twinkle in my eye when I bought the rollermat.

Seven grand is a lot, but it has a skimmer, roller filter and return pump. For 7k, I'll likely pass. But, for 5k? If I needed something to fit under my stand? Maybe. There's no way I'm redoing my setup now, though. Also, no fuge compartment.

ca1ore
09/29/2017, 09:53 AM
I paid $150 for an older Oceanic 150, another $150 for precut and polished 1/4" glass baffles, and probably another $50 for silicone, bulkheads, some eggcrate and PVC piping. So $350 all in (plus sweat equity .... though it is a hobby) and I'd stack it up against any of these commercial sumps - any day, all day. Lots of ways to waste money in this hobby; overpaying for a sump doesn't seem like a good one.

Plus, to me, making stuff for the hobby is part of the fun of it. Whether a sump, ATS, stand ..... whatever. Though I accept that some people don't have the skills or inclination to do it.

All my opinion of course.

HippieSmell
09/29/2017, 10:05 AM
I paid $150 for an older Oceanic 150, another $150 for precut and polished 1/4" glass baffles, and probably another $50 for silicone, bulkheads, some eggcrate and PVC piping. So $350 all in (plus sweat equity .... though it is a hobby) and I'd stack it up against any of these commercial sumps - any day, all day. Lots of ways to waste money in this hobby; overpaying for a sump doesn't seem like a good one.

Plus, to me, making stuff for the hobby is part of the fun of it. Whether a sump, ATS, stand ..... whatever. Though I accept that some people don't have the skills or inclination to do it.

All my opinion of course.

Depends how how much your time is worth. FWIW, I designed my sump and had it custom made.

Having said all that, I've changed my mind and am throwing my hat into the ring for this company: https://matlss.com/product/skid-compact-filtration-systems-complete-lss/

If I was rebuilding, I would take a long, hard look at these. Apparently, one model is only $6k, but I'm not sure which one. Sounds like a lot, but it looks like serious bang per buck to me.

Gary Majchrzak
09/29/2017, 11:45 AM
there's no way in hades I'm paying thousands of dollars for a sump.

I'm pretty sure I'm sticking with my Beckett skimmer and external pumps- items that are part of a "filter system" rather than strictly a sump.

I did have a Lifereef sump and filter system 20 years ago that was very good... but my display aquarium outgrew it... and it was not built to handle filter socks or Chaetomorpha/refugium etc.
I'm sure Jeff will build whatever you want if you go cu$tom sump.

shaginwagon13
09/29/2017, 01:13 PM
you have a rollermat(?)
why didn't you pay several thousands more and get that box of wet dreams?

lolllllll

ca1ore
09/29/2017, 01:55 PM
Depends how how much your time is worth.

Immaterial to me. It's a hobby and I enjoy making stuff.

d2mini
09/29/2017, 02:43 PM
there's no way in hades I'm paying thousands of dollars for a sump.

I'm pretty sure I'm sticking with my Beckett skimmer and external pumps- items that are part of a "filter system" rather than strictly a sump.

I did have a Lifereef sump and filter system 20 years ago that was very good... but my display aquarium outgrew it... and it was not built to handle filter socks or Chaetomorpha/refugium etc.
I'm sure Jeff will build whatever you want if you go cu$tom sump.

FWIW, a refugium is now part of his standard product line.

He uses filter pads instead of socks, which IME are easier to deal with. But that's just my opinion. I know many people like using socks.

Synergy Reef and Trigger Systems are now making Triton Method specific sumps which have a large refugium built in instead of those dinky little afterthought refugiums you typically see.

HippieSmell
09/29/2017, 03:06 PM
there's no way in hades I'm paying thousands of dollars for a sump.

I'm pretty sure I'm sticking with my Beckett skimmer and external pumps- items that are part of a "filter system" rather than strictly a sump.

I did have a Lifereef sump and filter system 20 years ago that was very good... but my display aquarium outgrew it... and it was not built to handle filter socks or Chaetomorpha/refugium etc.
I'm sure Jeff will build whatever you want if you go cu$tom sump.
Did you look at the link I posted? I don't think anyone would call that just a sump. I think they look amazing. I want one. Makes a dreambox look like a toy.

Fishbulb2
09/29/2017, 05:31 PM
I bought my first commercial sump for this current aquarium and I can't stand it. It does have a place for filter socks, but it is BURIED in the back of the sump behind the skimmer. You have to lift off a small cover and reach your hand deep in there to pull out the filter sock holder which is really tight. It's just a terrible design. God awful. Then the skimmer chamber is small and you realize it really pigeon holes you into your options. Same with trying to find a heater. Only the titanium no-thermostat heater will fit. It's just such a terrible design. Everything about it. It also only has a couple of lines to attach tubing to for auto top off and carbon and two part. I had to add a bunch of my own. I'll never buy another sump. I'll just use an aquarium from here on out.

FB

Gary Majchrzak
09/30/2017, 05:28 AM
Did you look at the link I posted? I don't think anyone would call that just a sump. I think they look amazing. I want one. Makes a dreambox look like a toy.
Looks too crowded. Jammed.
Some people are more impressed with sumps than displays. I'm not one of them.

I'm a KISS kind of guy :love1:

Gary Majchrzak
09/30/2017, 05:34 AM
I bought my first commercial sump for this current aquarium and I can't stand it. It does have a place for filter socks, but it is BURIED in the back of the sump behind the skimmer. You have to lift off a small cover and reach your hand deep in there to pull out the filter sock holder which is really tight. It's just a terrible design. God awful. Then the skimmer chamber is small and you realize it really pigeon holes you into your options. Same with trying to find a heater. Only the titanium no-thermostat heater will fit. It's just such a terrible design. Everything about it. It also only has a couple of lines to attach tubing to for auto top off and carbon and two part. I had to add a bunch of my own. I'll never buy another sump. I'll just use an aquarium from here on out.

FB I'm gonna need 20" for my 300 watt heaters, commercial sump builders.
I want to be able to have the option of running a pad or socks and they must be easy to insert/remove.
I don't want to pay $500+ for a sump and have to drill it for external pumps.
It's GOT to be covered to reduce splash/humidity in sump area.

rishma
09/30/2017, 07:54 AM
I've never had interest in commercial Sumps because I found them overly complicated and didn't have any interest in the features. My sumps have lways just been a glass tank with a single weir. I've sometimes included a sock holder, and sometimes not. I often times ended up stopping using socks, and just letting that to try to settle in the sump to siphon out with water changes. KISS.


I now own first commercial sump, which came with my Red Sea reefer 170. It is a simple well thought out sump and I'm please with it. Works well with the system. My only gripe is they made the we are too short so the water level is only 7 inches in a limited my skimmer options. I am adding a very simple refugium/Cheato reactor hybrid this week out of a piece of large diameter PVC.

I think I'm just not the target market for the current fad a fancy Sumps. I do find them very attractive with some cleverly engineered features.

Mrs. Music
09/30/2017, 06:42 PM
FWIW, a refugium is now part of his standard product line.

He uses filter pads instead of socks, which IME are easier to deal with. But that's just my opinion. I know many people like using socks.

Synergy Reef and Trigger Systems are now making Triton Method specific sumps which have a large refugium built in instead of those dinky little afterthought refugiums you typically see.
I am thinking about going back to my filter pads and converted wet dry. My bigger sump has added alot of moisture to the air and the socks are a little bit of a pita.

But the the newfangled sumps are soooo PRETTY. It does give me the wants it....never gonna due to the price tho.