PDA

View Full Version : Ultra fine glass beads substrate ?


LeJeune981
09/23/2017, 10:37 PM
I just rebuilt my entire set up.. I have a 90 gallon display and a 46 gallon bow front display refugium... anyways.. in my 90 display.. I used some super fine..bright white sandblasting glass beads.. they were soft to the touch.. (Lil tiny round balls.. it looks amazing.. I am making a fish and softy tank.. so the flow isn't moving it around very much...

I have noticed though.. my snails have a terrible time traversing it.. and my hermits have a difficult time walking across it... it seems as if the very top layer is pretty soft.. and almost porous...

Will this get better over time.. as bacteria builds up.. or did I make a mistake using the ultra fine stuff...

Does anyone have any experience with this stuff as a substrate

I will try and post some pictures of my set up.. but last time I tried.. for some reason it won't let me post pictures anymore.. I hope I can though... I took some awesome macro shots for you guys to check out.. and some video of my hidden cup corals possibly reproducing

Nope.. still failing to upload :-(

Thanks for any and all advice/feedback

Sk8r
09/23/2017, 11:15 PM
I used ultrafine sand, and found it walked and killed corals; many snails can't cross ANY sand; but for hermits to have trouble forecasts trouble, perhaps a tendency to compact and cause pockets of nastiness..---no clue.. As for pix, Photobucket is now out. Try another service.

LeJeune981
09/23/2017, 11:27 PM
I used ultrafine sand, and found it walked and killed corals; many snails can't cross ANY sand; but for hermits to have trouble forecasts trouble, perhaps a tendency to compact and cause pockets of nastiness..---no clue.. As for pix, Photobucket is now out. Try another service.I always use the attachment option on the new thread menuhttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170924/55cd384ebed275d9f9033275480c00b5.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170924/a1fec4ce55866be2870d006f51110bc4.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170924/435525c7f0e673767278a94531a37eb0.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170924/f3c02a71f4cb24a10392a06e545a0669.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170924/76407b81e687813c689b4518c764b632.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170924/6360eff485e1571d55ae89d075569048.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170924/57f034e178c21f4208c558e69a6385c3.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170924/9b269e2d3d92645e4eaf83d4cafc6f24.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170924/f2e8e56624a99d2363624cf26d06dfdf.jpg

Sent from my SM-S907VL using Tapatalk

LeJeune981
09/23/2017, 11:30 PM
I always use the attachment option on the new thread menuhttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170924/55cd384ebed275d9f9033275480c00b5.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170924/a1fec4ce55866be2870d006f51110bc4.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170924/435525c7f0e673767278a94531a37eb0.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170924/f3c02a71f4cb24a10392a06e545a0669.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170924/76407b81e687813c689b4518c764b632.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170924/6360eff485e1571d55ae89d075569048.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170924/57f034e178c21f4208c558e69a6385c3.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170924/9b269e2d3d92645e4eaf83d4cafc6f24.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170924/f2e8e56624a99d2363624cf26d06dfdf.jpg

Sent from my SM-S907VL using TapatalkWoohoo... I can post pics using tapatalk..

Sent from my SM-S907VL using Tapatalk

Mr. Eel
09/24/2017, 01:46 AM
That sand does look pretty cool tho, its like a bunch of crystals.

flsalty
09/24/2017, 02:32 AM
You'd have to look at it under a microscope to see the actual shape of the beads and how much dust there is. Something like diatomaceous earth feels soft to the touch but the little diatom skeletons are very sharp to snails and slugs. Enough to keep them from crossing it in a garden. Or maybe it's just too fluffy like trying to walk through deep powder snow. Or maybe they are super smooth and slippery. It's all just guessing unless you can look at it under a scope or try and look on the manufacturer's website.

LeJeune981
09/24/2017, 07:42 AM
You'd have to look at it under a microscope to see the actual shape of the beads and how much dust there is. Something like diatomaceous earth feels soft to the touch but the little diatom skeletons are very sharp to snails and slugs. Enough to keep them from crossing it in a garden. Or maybe it's just too fluffy like trying to walk through deep powder snow. Or maybe they are super smooth and slippery. It's all just guessing unless you can look at it under a scope or try and look on the manufacturer's website.I have looked it up on the Web sight.. little tiny round balls..

The hermits can cross it.. but like you described. Wheb you watch them.. there Lil legs go down into it.. like deep snow

Sent from my SM-S907VL using Tapatalk

LeJeune981
09/24/2017, 07:43 AM
That sand does look pretty cool tho, its like a bunch of crystals.That's one of the reasons I decided to go with this stuff

Sent from my SM-S907VL using Tapatalk

billdogg
09/24/2017, 12:23 PM
IMHO, the biggest downside to using that will be that it's not porous at all and so will add little if anything to the biological filtration, and it has no buffering capacity at all. It will be difficult to clean as well.

jm.02

LeJeune981
09/24/2017, 12:41 PM
IMHO, the biggest downside to using that will be that it's not porous at all and so will add little if anything to the biological filtration, and it has no buffering capacity at all. It will be difficult to clean as well.

jm.02Very good point..
I do have 50 lbs of regular sand in my 46 gallon fuge.. and roughly 225 lbs of live rock between the display and fuge.

I'm not sure exactly what buffering is..

But also why I'm wondering if anyone else has ever used it and have any good or bad experiences

Sent from my SM-S907VL using Tapatalk

LeJeune981
09/24/2017, 09:36 PM
Ok.. update...every time a snail falls off a rock.. unless it lands on or right next to a rock.. the snail is stuck..and ends up beginning to bury itself by struggling... I've gotta fix it quick..

Can I add some normal sand right on top in a decent thick layer?
Or do I need to tear down and replace this stuff..

All my corals have just now acclimated to the tank.. so I really don't wanna pull them all out and re arrange the tank to clean the stuff out.. but if I have to.. I ll do what I gotta do..

Sent from my SM-S907VL using Tapatalk

jayball
09/24/2017, 10:01 PM
If I was in your shoes I would start with syphoning out the glass bead stuff used, it does not sound like it is doing anything good. Suck it out and be bare bottom or add some sand after.

Crazy stuff that is like quicksand to snails,

Sent from my XT1575 using Tapatalk

LeJeune981
09/24/2017, 10:25 PM
I'm gonna take some small Spain live rock pieces and put them in the spot the snails are getting in trouble at.. for temporary.. it's 1130 at night and I gotta work all day tomorrow.. so I won't have a chance to replace the sand until late tomorrow...

It's deff gonna be a job to syphon most of it out.. and to replace it as well with the rock stacked.

Would it be a bad idea to completely cover it all with a good heavy layer of sand ?

Sent from my SM-S907VL using Tapatalk

quantumfuzz
09/24/2017, 11:01 PM
I wouldn't try to cover it with sand. The sand will most likely migrate downward over time and you will be in a worse position with both all mixed up and having to toss it all out. I would just do it right and not make the inevitable worse.

Also buffering is where the sand (not black sand), is composed of calcium carbonate, which helps mitigate swings in pH due to it actually dissolving slowly over time as pH drops and furring your pH much like Kalk would.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

LeJeune981
09/24/2017, 11:52 PM
Ok.. I'm reading up on changing sand beds here in the forum.. all I find are people with mature tanks changing it for some reason or another... and that seems pretty bad and risky because of the mature sand..

My sand is maybe a month old..
All my live rock is 8 months old. And transfered from my other tank I tore down...

So how do I change mine.. do I need to qt everything and tear all the way down like a mature tank.. or can I move things around and just do sections at a time.. not worried about the time bomb that is a mature sand bed?

My inhabitants include

Bout 25 snails astrea..um forget the other names lol
20 Cortez reef hermits
No fish
Hidden cup coral
Some zoas
2 leathers (toadstool maybe)
Some xenia and star polyp

All pretty new bought a Lil something every week and today..

I got a bit of a project so I just wanna be prepared and do it right

Sent from my SM-S907VL using Tapatalk

quantumfuzz
09/25/2017, 01:33 AM
Disturbing the sand bed good vs bad is usually a function of sand bed depth and age. Deeper older sand beds, let's say greater than 2 inches, can develop anaerobic layers which can be beneficial when left alone but can be toxic when stirred.

I have about a 1" decorative sand bed which I disturb all the time without problem. On the other hand I just tore down someone else's tank with a deeper sand bed and the deeper sand smelled like rotten eggs from the anaerobic bacteria.

In your case, since your tank is young and it's a good chance to right its future course, I would get a bucket and put the rocks and livestock in it with some tank water. Get a broom scoop thing and shovel out the glass. Put in new sand, add makeup water and slap everything back in after checking your parameters. It should only take a few hours.

No need for a long quarantine. I have done this many times when moving my tanks and I have sps, fish and other more sensitive items.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

MurphyLong
09/25/2017, 07:39 AM
I just rebuilt my entire set up.. I have a 90 gallon display and a 46 gallon bow front display refugium... anyways.. in my 90 display.. I used some super fine..bright white sandblasting glass beads.. they were soft to the touch.. (Lil tiny round balls.. it looks amazing.. I am making a fish and softy tank.. so the flow isn't moving it around very much...

I have noticed though.. my snails have a terrible time traversing it.. and my hermits have a difficult time walking across it... it seems as if the very top layer is pretty soft.. and almost porous...

Will this get better over time.. as bacteria builds up.. or did I make a mistake using the ultra fine stuff...

Does anyone have any experience with this stuff as a substrate

I will try and post some pictures of my set up.. but last time I tried.. for some reason it won't let me post pictures anymore.. I hope I can though... I took some awesome macro shots for you guys to check out.. and some video of my hidden cup corals possibly reproducing

Nope.. still failing to upload :-(

Thanks for any and all advice/feedback



Are you by chance in Eastern NC?

LeJeune981
09/25/2017, 12:24 PM
Are you by chance in Eastern NC?No.. north Central ohio

Sent from my SM-S907VL using Tapatalk

MurphyLong
09/25/2017, 12:25 PM
No.. north Central ohio

Sent from my SM-S907VL using Tapatalk

Ah, had to ask, I work on Camp Lejeune here in NC.

LeJeune981
09/25/2017, 12:32 PM
Ah, had to ask, I work on Camp Lejeune here in NC.Oh yeah?! That is my great great grandfather camp.. general LeJeune

I was stationed at camp LeJeune for about a year back in 2001/02

Sent from my SM-S907VL using Tapatalk

FullBoreReefer
09/25/2017, 01:00 PM
Wouldn't those glass beads, or whatever, be a health risk to inhabitants? Just curious. Kinda like how fiberglass insulation is to us, don't really notice it until you rub on it?

billdogg
09/25/2017, 03:13 PM
Because it is so new, I really don't think you will bother anything at all by just siphoning it all out and then replacing it with sand (or go BB, but I don't care for the look - doesn't seem natural)

It will be a PIA, but I'll bet an hour or so and you'll have it all.

LeJeune981
09/27/2017, 12:31 PM
I'm gonna replace it all this weekend.. I have to wait till my local guy is back in town to open up his little Shop so I can buy some good substrate.... haven't decided yet what I am gonna get..

In the mean time.. so I don't lose any snails... I bought 10 lbs of aquarium pebbles and covered up all the beads.. I figure when I syphon the beads out.. the pebbles can just stay on the bottom under the new sand..and my critters are safe again..


Thanks for all the advice everyone..

Sent from my SM-S907VL using Tapatalk

Sk8r
09/27/2017, 01:02 PM
Easiest might be to unbuild the reef, transfer everybody to a Brute trashcan (safe) and quickly scoop out (maybe a wet/dry vac) absolutely everything left. Replace the rock, then replace water and inhabitants, then add well-washed sand slowly, cupful every few days, over weeks---OR replace rock, replace sandbed with commercial 'live sand' AND replace inhabitants, relying on your rock to seed it to the degree needed. The rock SHOULD be able to 'carry' the tank on its own if you feed very, very lightly for the next 10 days, after which the sandbed can help a tiny bit and you still need to go slow. If you have a functional fuge, it would also help carry the tank through this.

LeJeune981
09/27/2017, 05:22 PM
Easiest might be to unbuild the reef, transfer everybody to a Brute trashcan (safe) and quickly scoop out (maybe a wet/dry vac) absolutely everything left. Replace the rock, then replace water and inhabitants, then add well-washed sand slowly, cupful every few days, over weeks---OR replace rock, replace sandbed with commercial 'live sand' AND replace inhabitants, relying on your rock to seed it to the degree needed. The rock SHOULD be able to 'carry' the tank on its own if you feed very, very lightly for the next 10 days, after which the sandbed can help a tiny bit and you still need to go slow. If you have a functional fuge, it would also help carry the tank through this.Yup.. I've got a 46 gallon bow front display fuge.. filled with the live sand from my 150 before it broke. And a lot of live rock..

Will moving all of my corals around hurt them? They are all finally acclimated and happy..

I was thinking about Wm either tearing all the way down like you mentioned... or going like 1/4 at a time.. siphoning the beads out into a make shift strainer above my fuge..so the water all stays in the system and then I can slowly and carefully replace with the new washed sand.. and a fresh filter sock...

But rebuilding would prolly be faster and safer for everything.. and I already got a 50 gallon tote for water changes and emergency.. so I think I'll take sk8ters advice on this one

Sent from my SM-S907VL using Tapatalk