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Deep Reef
09/24/2017, 10:37 AM
I'm starting a new tank build. On my last tank I used egg crate to protect the bottom from the rocks. I wanted to add a sheet of 1/4" abs plastic on the bottom inside of this tank similar to what Reef savvy does. Would aquarium silicone be the best option?


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paulsz
09/24/2017, 10:42 AM
I can't tell you if there are other options, but the silicone should be okay.

Deep Reef
09/24/2017, 10:47 AM
Thanks pailz


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mcgyvr
09/24/2017, 12:41 PM
Momentive RTV100 series.. (available online,etc...)
GE Type 1 silicone.. (available at Home Depot)
Best to avoid GE Type 2 as it has a much longer curing time but can be used too.. But Type 1 (or I) is easily available in multiple colors..

Make sure you don't use large globs and instead stay with 1/8" beads and ensure its fully cured before getting it wet..

Deep Reef
09/24/2017, 02:30 PM
Ty mcgyvr


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Turbomark
09/24/2017, 02:55 PM
Make sure that it's 100% pure silicone. I believe that the ge type two also has mildew inhibitors that can cause massive issues in a reef tank.

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rvareef
09/24/2017, 03:18 PM
do not use ge type with mold inhibitors

Deep Reef
09/24/2017, 03:32 PM
I have used the RTV 100 in that past so that will be good


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ca1ore
09/24/2017, 05:54 PM
Why 'glue' it down? Weight of rocks or sand will hold it in place.

45commando
09/24/2017, 06:09 PM
Why 'glue' it down? Weight of rocks or sand will hold it in place.

Was thinking the same thing.

Whatever you decide, DO NOT use GE type II as others have stated. It contains mold inhibitors & fungicides & other nasties that you don't want anywhere near an aquarium.

nereefpat
09/24/2017, 06:45 PM
Every time there is a silicone question, many people bring up mold inhibitors.

Supposedly, MSDS sheets for 100% silicone products never actually show any chemicals that would be mold inhibitors, even if they say their product is mold inhibiting.

So if you let any 100% silicone product properly cure, it all should be fine.

Chaddiusmaximus
09/24/2017, 08:18 PM
FYI
MSDS are out dated; and SDS are now in thanks to GHS. Lost let? :spin1:

The point is, if a chemical is low enough in concentration it is not reported on the SDS. ie if a mold inhibitor is less than ~1% (w/w or v/v) it will not get reported.

I would think the weight of sand and/or rock would do the job just fine and save you time.

Best of luck.

45commando
09/24/2017, 09:29 PM
Every time there is a silicone question, many people bring up mold inhibitors.

Supposedly, MSDS sheets for 100% silicone products never actually show any chemicals that would be mold inhibitors, even if they say their product is mold inhibiting.

So if you let any 100% silicone product properly cure, it all should be fine.

"NJTSRN 11473-01-4-5138P" & "VOC (excluding water & exempt compounds) is less than 50 g/L" along with the various silica based products are on the ingredients list on my tube of GE II 100% silicone, laying in the garage. Doesn't make me think it is really 100% silicone, even if GE claims it is. Maybe the above compounds are harmless for aquarium use, but I wouldn't take the risk, when other products are readily available.

Lsufan
09/24/2017, 09:42 PM
What mcgyver posted explains the different silicones. It's nothing to do with mild inhibitors, it's the type of cure. I'm with calore, I don't think u have to silicone it in place but it wouldn't hurt anything if u do. I would use a small bead of silicone like mcgyver said if u do decide to silicone it in place. If u go with momentive rtv then the 103 is black & the 108 is clear

Deep Reef
09/24/2017, 09:51 PM
My fear in not using silicone is that the edges where no one typically puts rock may lift allowing debris underneath creating nitrate issues


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ca1ore
09/25/2017, 07:53 AM
My fear in not using silicone is that the edges where no one typically puts rock may lift allowing debris underneath creating nitrate issues.

If you are planning a bare bottom tank, then I suppose lifting edges may be aesthetically unappealing. Detritus builds up in lots of places, doubt the little that might accumulate under the plastic will be material. If you are planning a sand bottom, then using silicone seem singularly pointless to me. I used an acrylic sheet under my rock work, and it has not lifted at all. Plastic tends to bow when the moisture level on one side of the sheet is different from the other. If fully submerged, plastic like acrylic will expand but generally not warp - not sure about ABS though (is it even hydrophilic).

mcgyvr
09/25/2017, 08:07 AM
If you work quick (I mean really quick.. like under a minute to apply the silicone then press the sheet down) this stuff works a little better than GE1 for adhering plastic to glass..
http://www.homedepot.com/p/GE-10-oz-Silicone-Cartridge-GE-55/202038071


Note: it is ammonia cure (neutral cure) so make sure its fully cured (a few days is fine) or you will have ammonia toxicity issues (which is why people think GE2 is not to be used.. but it can so long as its fully cured)
Neutral cure is just naturally more "mold resistant" also.. Hence the marketing team uses "mold resistant" to describe/sell GE2

ca1ore
09/25/2017, 08:26 AM
GE2 it is ammonia cure (neutral cure) so make sure its fully cured (a few days is fine) or you will have ammonia toxicity issues (which is why people think GE2 is not to be used.. but it can so long as its fully cured). Neutral cure is just naturally more "mold resistant" also.. Hence the marketing team uses "mold resistant" to describe/sell GE2

FWIW, I think this is exactly right. Mold resistance of GE2 is not the result of some mythical additive, but rather the inherent properties of a neutral cure silicone. Insufficient cure time is the problem. I always let any silicone cure for at least a week, sometimes two.

d0ughb0y
09/25/2017, 08:31 AM
I'm looking for material to line the bottom of my tank. will an acrylic sheet from home depot work? 0.093 (3/32") thick acrylic should be sufficient right? It will be covered with sand.

mcgyvr
09/25/2017, 09:35 AM
I'm looking for material to line the bottom of my tank. will an acrylic sheet from home depot work? 0.093 (3/32") thick acrylic should be sufficient right? It will be covered with sand.

Sure you can use acrylic..

mcgyvr
09/25/2017, 09:41 AM
FWIW, I think this is exactly right. Mold resistance of GE2 is not the result of some mythical additive, but rather the inherent properties of a neutral cure silicone. Insufficient cure time is the problem. I always let any silicone cure for at least a week, sometimes two.

yessiree bob ;)

"Fully Cured" is essential..
Bead thickness is key here..
A good tip is to squirt a "test" bead as thick as any bead you used so you can periodically check/slice to see if its fully cured so you know that whatever work you did also cured..

If there is any "wet" section its not cured.. If there is a smell of vinegar or ammonia its not cured..
Some can cure rather quickly.. others not so much..

Inadequate cure with neutral cure is what caused the rumors not some "mold additive".. Neutral cure releases ammonia when curing.. We all know thats bad..
Axetoxy cure releases vinegar essentially when curing and typically cures faster..

d0ughb0y
09/25/2017, 09:58 AM
Sure you can use acrylic..

yes. my question is more on the thickness.
OP mentions Reef Savvy tanks use 1/4" acrylic and prefer to not go that thick, so will just go with 3/32" and I suppose that is fine.

I can get a 24"x18" sheet for around $12 and will be perfect for my 24"x24" footprint tank. I used to use egg crate when I had sand in my old tank and did not like it.

I think even for bare bottom, once the rock sits on top of it, it would be very unlikely for the edges to lift.

Crush Coral
09/25/2017, 10:02 AM
I have abs sheets cut and ready for my next 2 tanks, 30 long and 90. The sheets have been sitting in the empty tanks for over a year and have not curled but I will glue the edges down too when I set them up.

mcgyvr
09/25/2017, 10:20 AM
yes. my question is more on the thickness.
OP mentions Reef Savvy tanks use 1/4" acrylic and prefer to not go that thick, so will just go with 3/32" and I suppose that is fine.

I can get a 24"x18" sheet for around $12 and will be perfect for my 24"x24" footprint tank. I used to use egg crate when I had sand in my old tank and did not like it.

I think even for bare bottom, once the rock sits on top of it, it would be very unlikely for the edges to lift.

As long as you have oh maybe an inch or so of sand I don't see lifting/warping being a problem.. It can warp but the sand/water immersion should keep it from being a problem..