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fishkeeprian
09/29/2017, 03:38 AM
Hello,

I am designing my own custom sump. The attached picture is the maximum size I can fit under my tank, so there is no compromise on the size, it is what it is.

The layout in my mind which seems to be the typical design is compartment 1 skimmer and filter sock, compartment 2 refuge and compartment 3 is for the return.

From what I have read the height of the first baffle is dependant on the water level required for the Skimmer, but the height of the skimmer can be adjusted by a platform? I am going to be using a bubble Magnus curve 5.

What height would you recommend the first baffle to be, and would the water need to run over or under the baffle?[/COLOR]

Then I understand a bubble trap is needed, again what size baffle, and does the water need to run over or under?

again for the refuge and return, so plenty of help needed.

Thank you

380394

ssgss gogeta
09/29/2017, 03:56 AM
1 - call the store you are buying it from or a store that sells it and ask what it says on the box as the recommended skimmer height either that or google it and you should find out. To add you can increase the height of the baffle and raise up skimmer to suit so you can have more water volume

2 - baffles vary, 2 baffles can work but 3 baffles work better. A lot of people go over-under-over but I prefer under/over/under to reduce bubbles better. Baffles should be set 1inch apart to allow proper flow and if need be cleaning

3 - I prefer skimmer first section, return second section and third section refugium which is feed by manifold


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fishkeeprian
09/29/2017, 04:00 AM
1 - call the store you are buying it from or a store that sells it and ask what it says on the box as the recommended skimmer height either that or google it and you should find out. To add you can increase the height of the baffle and raise up skimmer to suit so you can have more water volume

2 - baffles vary, 2 baffles can work but 3 baffles work better. A lot of people go over-under-over but I prefer under/over/under to reduce bubbles better. Baffles should be set 1inch apart to allow proper flow and if need be cleaning

3 - I prefer skimmer first section, return second section and third section refugium which is feed by manifold


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Hi, could I have a picture, please? Also what is the benefit of have your refugium last>

ssgss gogeta
09/29/2017, 04:06 AM
Hi, could I have a picture, please? Also what is the benefit of have your refugium last>


Flow rate through your sump should suit your equipment for instance if your skimmer can work through 1000L/h but your sump is moving at 3000 it is not really giving the skimmer the optimal water contact time. Same with the refugium, most people that run skimmer/fuge/return the flow through the sump is too quick for the refugium. I use a refugium as what it's original intentions were for, a quiet place and it's own eco system for separate inhabitants than the display as well as nutrient export. By using a manifold and having the refugium run as the last chamber you can dial its flow to whatever best suits it. Not just what flow is going through your sump.


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fishkeeprian
09/29/2017, 04:15 AM
Flow rate through your sump should suit your equipment for instance if your skimmer can work through 1000L/h but your sump is moving at 3000 it is not really giving the skimmer the optimal water contact time. Same with the refugium, most people that run skimmer/fuge/return the flow through the sump is too quick for the refugium. I use a refugium as what it's original intentions were for, a quiet place and it's own eco system for separate inhabitants than the display as well as nutrient export. By using a manifold and having the refugium run as the last chamber you can dial its flow to whatever best suits it. Not just what flow is going through your sump.


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I would like to see how you have plumbed that if possible. I have never plumbed a tank before.

ssgss gogeta
09/29/2017, 04:19 AM
I don't currently have a sump set up, I have an aio nano as a holding tank while my new tank is being built. I'll see if I can dig through old photos to show you what I'm talking about.

But just keep googling and looking around, still a lot for you to learn. One last piece of advice is to figure out what equipment you want and design sump around that. And it never hurt to leave room for upgrades. You've done that with picking your skimmer first but decide on a return pump. Your return chamber really doesn't need to be that large provided you have an ato and your comfortable with that. And your refugium will be best holding a minimum of 10% of tank volume


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fishkeeprian
09/29/2017, 05:03 AM
I don't currently have a sump set up, I have an aio nano as a holding tank while my new tank is being built. I'll see if I can dig through old photos to show you what I'm talking about.

But just keep googling and looking around, still a lot for you to learn. One last piece of advice is to figure out what equipment you want and design sump around that. And it never hurt to leave room for upgrades. You've done that with picking your skimmer first but decide on a return pump. Your return chamber really doesn't need to be that large provided you have an ato and your comfortable with that. And your refugium will be best holding a minimum of 10% of tank volume


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The overflow that is installed is rated to 1000 gph which is way more than what is required, but I will have a gate valve on the drains to dial it down to my requirements.

The DT is approx 53 Gallons. The skimmer is rated up to 140 gph and I am looking for a flow rate of around 265 gph maximum which is 5 x the volume of my tank volume.

Should I go for a bigger skimmer and what size return would you recommend?

ca1ore
09/29/2017, 07:28 AM
Flow rate through your sump should suit your equipment for instance if your skimmer can work through 1000L/h but your sump is moving at 3000 it is not really giving the skimmer the optimal water contact time. Same with the refugium, most people that run skimmer/fuge/return the flow through the sump is too quick for the refugium. I use a refugium as what it's original intentions were for, a quiet place and it's own eco system for separate inhabitants than the display as well as nutrient export. By using a manifold and having the refugium run as the last chamber you can dial its flow to whatever best suits it. Not just what flow is going through your sump.

This, IME, is a perpetuated myth. There is no relationship between skimmer processing and water flow through the sump. Likewise for the refugium. Slow flow though the latter may be preferred to keep stuff better constrained and contained, but that will also hasten detritus build up.

ssgss gogeta
09/29/2017, 07:32 AM
This, IME, is a perpetuated myth. There is no relationship between skimmer processing and water flow through the sump. Likewise for the refugium. Slow flow though the latter may be preferred to keep stuff better constrained and contained, but that will also hasten detritus build up.



If a skimmer can only skim say 600L/h and the flow is at 1000L/h then around half of the water will only be skimmed that goes through the sump. That seems pretty common sense to me? If your flow and skimmer rating match it will be working more effectively. I have never tested it fully but it makes logical sense same as contact time for any filtration method.

And the refugium yes the slower flow would be if you intend to have an actual refugium not just some cheato for nutrient export that can obviously run at a faster flow.


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ssgss gogeta
09/29/2017, 07:42 AM
Mind you I have always assumed that because it made sense to me. If you have something that suggests it's wrong I'm open to hearing it


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ca1ore
09/29/2017, 08:04 AM
If a skimmer can only skim say 600L/h and the flow is at 1000L/h then around half of the water will only be skimmed that goes through the sump. That seems pretty common sense to me? If your flow and skimmer rating match it will be working more effectively. I have never tested it fully but it makes logical sense same as contact time for any filtration method.

Fluid dynamics are such that even if the flow through the skimmer exactly matched the skimmer, some 'raw' water would pass by and some would be processed twice. Further, a flow-through skimmer does not magically remove all organics in just a single pass (which is why recirculating skimmers exist, and work well). So what may 'seem' to make sense, only seems that way.

Lsufan
09/29/2017, 03:33 PM
Calore is right like usual, it is something that gets said quite a bit although u don't hear it as much anymore.

I'm not a mm guy but with the size of your sump I would go 9" or 10" on your baffles. I wouldn't go taller then 10" so u leave plenty of room for the tank to drain down when u turn your return off. I prefer a over/under/ over bubble trap if u are going to use three baffles. I prefer it this way so it keeps the water on top of the middle section moving & u don't get surface build up.

The location of the fuge is really personal preference & can work both ways. I prefer to have the return in the middle & fuge on the end. The reasons I prefer it this way is because u can shut the refugium down without turning the hole system off, u can have the fuge section a little deeper then the rest of the sump & although it's not that important u can control the flow through the refugium independent from the system. There are ways to get around the last part, u can always install a small powerheads if the flow through the fuge is to low.

I know u like drawings so I will draw one of how I would probably set it up. Btw, I tried sending u another drawings a while back of your stand but I couldn't get it to go through & eventually gave up. I looked it up & 9" is equal to about 228 mm & 10" 254 mm

Lsufan
09/29/2017, 04:05 PM
This is one picture of my two sumps. They are both a different design then u but it can give u a idea on the bubble trap.

https://s19.postimg.org/yw9t9y9r7/IMG_2020.jpg


https://s19.postimg.org/6xn9wci1v/IMG_1064.jpg


https://s19.postimg.org/l3veebizn/IMG_2021.jpg

ssgss gogeta
09/29/2017, 05:05 PM
Fluid dynamics are such that even if the flow through the skimmer exactly matched the skimmer, some 'raw' water would pass by and some would be processed twice. Further, a flow-through skimmer does not magically remove all organics in just a single pass (which is why recirculating skimmers exist, and work well). So what may 'seem' to make sense, only seems that way.



Interesting I'll look into reading about it! Im pretty old school and continue to go with what has worked for me over the years and what I learnt years ago. Thanks for the information


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mcgyvr
09/29/2017, 05:26 PM
There are reasons to have certain flow through a sump..
Pretty silly (inefficient) to just move water around if you aren't doing anything with it..

ca1ore
09/29/2017, 07:35 PM
Interesting I'll look into reading about it! Im pretty old school and continue to go with what has worked for me over the years and what I learnt years ago. Thanks for the information


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Well, I'm old school as well, having been at this for nigh 30 years. Nothing wrong with matching flow through and skimmer processing if it makes you feel better, it's just not actually doing anything for you.

mcgyvr
09/30/2017, 06:23 AM
Well, I'm old school as well, having been at this for nigh 30 years. Nothing wrong with matching flow through and skimmer processing if it makes you feel better, it's just not actually doing anything for you.

But moving water through a sump faster is?

ca1ore
09/30/2017, 06:51 AM
But moving water through a sump faster is?

Generally not, of course; not sure how that relates to the point I was making though?