PDA

View Full Version : I Love Books .....


ca1ore
09/29/2017, 07:14 AM
One of the really unfortunate consequences of the internet, and resources like ReefCentral, has been the essential death of the reef book business. While I find online discussion forums to be superb resources, I still refer to my extensive library of physical books. Most of them are old, but this does not make them obsolete or necessarily outdated.

Maybe this just makes me old, but I fundamentally 'distrust' online resources. Too easy for internet 'experts' to dispense bad ideas and poor advice (all it takes is a video cam and the ability to string 20 words together in a row :lol:). Not saying there aren't real experts out there, but it can be hard to tell them from the imposters. I've been in this hobby for almost 30 years, so I am not predisposed to following dubious advice, but I think most newbies are not so well armed.

Anyhow, not trying to be lecture-ous, rather to extoll the benefits of books and magazines. Subscribe to Coral Magazine, it's excellent. Hunt down some key books. Here's my 'collection' ...... :lol:

d2mini
09/29/2017, 07:20 AM
I have reef books that I never touch. They just sit on the shelf and collect dust.

Coral Magazine is cool, though. At least it's staying current.

jacksonpt
09/29/2017, 07:29 AM
With so much of this hobby being YMMV, how do you balance factual books with internet user experiences?

I also love books... love everything about them. But I've never really gotten into reference books because accepted standards seems to change. Maybe that's different in this context/field?

ca1ore
09/29/2017, 07:39 AM
With so much of this hobby being YMMV, how do you balance factual books with internet user experiences?

I also love books... love everything about them. But I've never really gotten into reference books because accepted standards seems to change. Maybe that's different in this context/field?

I don't think it is so much about YMMV, as it is a reef tank is a highly complex entity and there are many 'levers' available to the aquarist that may appear to be highly variable. It has long been my view that if you understand the fundamental and underlying drivers in your tank you'll be better prepared to pull the right levers in the right way. While books may appear outdated, those fundamentals don't change - even if the ways and techniques do. I get that we live in a 'snackable' world, and most folks don't have the predisposition to read a 300 page text book; just makes me old fashioned I guess.

jacksonpt
09/29/2017, 07:45 AM
Good call - YMMV was probably the wrong cliche. Lots of ways to skin the cat, perhaps?

But I see what you're getting at. Without a reasonable understanding of the fundamentals, it can be very hard to interpret advice and know what does or does not apply to your situation.

I'm probably not as learned as I should be, especially on the chemistry side of things...

billdogg
09/29/2017, 10:14 AM
I have pretty much the same collection in the bookcase in my study. Although I don't refer to them often, when you need them they are indispensable.

As for them becoming outdated - much of the information in them is very much like any textbook on math, science, etc. Although the method of presentation might change over the years, the facts remain the same regardless.

nereefpat
09/29/2017, 10:27 AM
What!? No Conscientious Marine Aquarist!?

You have a great collection with a treasure trove of information, imo.

ca1ore
09/29/2017, 11:10 AM
:lol: But I do have space on the next shelf down for the remaining three unpublished volumes of the Reef Fishes series ......

smatter
09/29/2017, 11:30 AM
Has the nitty-gritty of those books changed that much really? It's all still relevant information, just with pictures of metal halide pendants and Sander skimmers. Other than the advent of LEDs and propeller pumps what is so much better now? What do we know now that we didn't know then? I love all my water-stained dog-eared books, especially the ones that feature a portrait of a mullet-clad Julian Sprung :reading:

der_wille_zur_macht
09/29/2017, 12:00 PM
Science changes in a deliberate and controlled manner. Hobbies change in a chaotic and uncontrolled manner. This makes science much more shelf-stable than a hobby.

If you want to know about the chemistry in a reef tank, I book published 15 years ago is probably as good as one published yesterday. If you want to learn about the latest equipment fads, a 15 year old book is going to be a bad resource. Forums are much better suited to the rapid change in a hobby.

We are in a unique situation because a lot of the fundamentals of our hobby are based on biology and chemistry. Reef keeping books that focus on these fundamentals are going to be good resources, even I ft they are old. I love books like this. If you want to know what makes a reef tank work, books are great. If you just want to get the most up to date recipe to keep one, or you want to know the name of the latest fad coral, forums are great for that.

d2mini
09/29/2017, 12:51 PM
The reason mine just collect dust is because I understand the fundamentals by now.
And for something like looking up some information on a specific fish or coral, it's much easier/quicker to use google.

So unless you just like reading text books for fun (Awesome sauce for you, but about as much fun as a root canal for me), I'm struggling to see the benefit for a seasoned reef keeper. :)

smatter
09/29/2017, 01:43 PM
The reason mine just collect dust is because I understand the fundamentals by now.
And for something like looking up some information on a specific fish or coral, it's much easier/quicker to use google.

So unless you just like reading text books for fun (Awesome sauce for you, but about as much fun as a root canal for me), I'm struggling to see the benefit for a seasoned reef keeper. :)

"Penis corals are very beautiful." That's a direct quote out of The Modern Coral Reef Aquarium Vol. 2. See what you are missing?

d2mini
09/29/2017, 01:46 PM
"Penis corals are very beautiful." That's a direct quote out of The Modern Coral Reef Aquarium Vol. 2. See what you are missing?

:lolspin:

ReefTeacher
09/29/2017, 07:25 PM
"Penis corals are very beautiful." That's a direct quote out of The Modern Coral Reef Aquarium Vol. 2. See what you are missing?

I GOTTA KNOW.....What page????????:spin1:

der_wille_zur_macht
09/29/2017, 07:46 PM
"Penis corals are very beautiful." That's a direct quote out of The Modern Coral Reef Aquarium Vol. 2. See what you are missing?

Okay, I take back everything I said above. I think you guys are talking about a different kind of "books" than I was. :D :hmm2:

Joe Kelley
09/29/2017, 07:49 PM
Love this thread, Sprung Nilsen and Veron on the shelf for now.

jda
09/29/2017, 08:24 PM
With so much of this hobby being YMMV, how do you balance factual books with internet user experiences?

I also love books... love everything about them. But I've never really gotten into reference books because accepted standards seems to change. Maybe that's different in this context/field?

Books give a voice to people who should have them. The internet user experience gives the same voice to everybody from people who are experienced enough to write a book to people with boogers on frag plugs with a pizzpants two-month-old tank. Both can be useful given some context that people usually leave out. However, the books might be better to gain a baseline knowledge so that you can later separate the pizzpants from the experienced on the web.

You can do pretty well with this hobby with just basic chemistry and biology. Those have not really changed.

Lastly, most of the "experts" now-a-days have an agenda to sell products. I hate it when I see Dr. Ron made fun of when all that he ever did was try and help the hobby and hobbyists, yet RB is a saint for their videos while promoting the EcoTech agenda. ...I digress...

What are some people's go-to books? Veron's Corals of the World and Amano's Nature Aquarium (freshwater, but awesome) are some of mine.

ca1ore
09/29/2017, 08:32 PM
My absolute, hands down favorite book is The Optimum Aquarium. Yes, it's freshwater, an unabashed commercial for Dupla, and the English translation is stilted at best, but it was THE book that got me into the aquarium hobby in a serious way. I used the DuplaSun LI HQI fixture for more than 20 years before it finally gave up the ghost.

d2mini
09/29/2017, 08:41 PM
people with boogers on frag plugs with a pizzpants two-month-old tank.

This statement is full of so much win! :lolspin::lolspin::lolspin:

jda
09/29/2017, 08:41 PM
We used to sell the **** out of that book when I was in College in the 1990s. We would get 8-10 a week from Fritz wholesaler.

Nature Aquarium Vol 3 had me set up a planted tank, order plants with a write-in mail-order form and cashiers check. Learned a lot about patience and CO2 dosing... and also that if I was going to spend that much time on a tank that it would be a reef. Mad respect for FW planted tanks after having a really nice one.

My parents hated buying us hobby-related stuff for presents, but books were always OK. I got JEN Veron's CotW set two years in a row and then on year four (they forgot that they got them the previous years) - I still have all three sets. I guess that they are collectors items now.

jda
09/29/2017, 08:42 PM
This statement is full of so much win! :lolspin::lolspin::lolspin:

I am dealing with one of those right now on another board...

d2mini
09/29/2017, 08:46 PM
I am dealing with one of those right now on another board...

Let me guess... the thread I had to step in tonite and tell everyone to cool it? ;)

jda
09/29/2017, 08:53 PM
Yes, that very pizzpants. ...sorry to Hijack Simon.

I am traveling on Sunday. I am going right now to get a book and put it in my bag. Dunno which on yet - they are all so good, but maybe a Wattley Discus book since it has been so long.

der_wille_zur_macht
09/30/2017, 06:41 AM
Books give a voice to people who should have them. The internet user experience gives the same voice to everybody from people who are experienced enough to write a book to people with boogers on frag plugs with a pizzpants two-month-old tank.

That's a good way to put it. The publishing process rewards diligence and accuracy. The internet rewards charisma and popularity.

My favorite is Borneman's Corals. I did a major hobby book clean out 10ish years ago and this was the only fish book I kept. I'm kicking myself now because I donated a bunch of books that are hard to get now.

You guys are making me miss planted FW...

ca1ore
09/30/2017, 06:45 AM
Amano's book set is superb, I agree. Never could tell how good of an aquarist he was, but no question a wonderful photographer. I had the three volume set, but at some point I have misplaced the middle volume. Probably lent it to a buddy of mine who is a black hole for books. My copy of Little Green Men (Fermi paradox, where is everyone) also went missing in the same black hole. Too bad because it was a first edition actually signed by aliens.

der_wille_zur_macht
09/30/2017, 07:20 AM
Not just a great photographer but a great mind for design in general.

https://www.reef2rainforest.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/Takashi-Amano-House.jpg

d2mini
09/30/2017, 09:50 AM
Amano... :sad2:

SAT
09/30/2017, 11:25 AM
I must be old too!

http://reefcentral.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=11561&pictureid=78634

ca1ore
09/30/2017, 05:30 PM
My favorite set, hands down, was the Modern Coral Reef (Nilsen, Fossa). Were supposed to be further volumes .....

Mrs. Music
09/30/2017, 06:49 PM
I have reef books that I never touch. They just sit on the shelf and collect dust.

Coral Magazine is cool, though. At least it's staying current.

send them to me! I will read them and love them, the way books are supposed to be treated.

Fredfish
10/01/2017, 09:46 AM
I love books too and still keep a few reference volumes. I still have one of Veron's books and it is a great source for a lot of basic knowledge about coral reefs, but his work on coral identification has been superseded by genetic sequencing.

Books are a static delivery method for knowledge. The internet is a vast ocean or knowledge (and other stuff) and sites like this are points of upwelling in that ocean. I've seen a lot of very good scientific literature referenced here.

You do need a good filter to separate truth, passionate belief, bias and fiction.

smatter
10/02/2017, 08:02 AM
I GOTTA KNOW.....What page????????:spin1:

It's in the section on sea pens and such I think. I'll have to try and find it 😁