high alk.... 15 dkh ..how to lower

[tom g]

hey there , I'm struggling with my wifes office tank , I had some issues with her work and the tank suffered a few fish losses corals not growing much also I have three anenomes in there that havea bleached and right now look opaque with pink tips , they were rose bubble tips , and a flame anemone .I started with a water change and have done a second larger one , but for some reason I chkd the readings with a salifert kit ...before and after ...

before water change ... alk....15.7.....cal....430.......mag....1300
ph...8.3 salinity was 1.019

after water change ...
alk ... 15.7........cal ....460.....mag ....1300....ph.......8.1......salinity .1.023

new water was tested at ...alk 15.......cal ...440.....mag ....1170...salinity was at 1.025

what I don't understand is why is my alk from my mix 15 ....it is instant ocean I have had it for a year and it was a brand new bag not opened ,opened two weeks ago , the bag was not hard or dried up poured it into a bucket like I always do..

what have I done wrong , how can I lower it .. I know that if I raise calcium it should drop it down , but will it drop it down enough ,I'm already close to the threshold of calcium how much can I go up ... should I just let it run its course , is this the reason my nems have bleached ....
confused ....

[bertoni]

I doubt that the anemones are having problems with the alkalinity. Stony corals might be more of an issue. I'd be worried about the salinity, and the changes in it. I would move the salinity up to 1.026, the canonical ocean average, over a period of a few days or so, by topping off with saltwater or part saltwater. A sudden change from 1.019 to 1.023 might cause some reaction. Did the anemones bleach when the water was changed, or did that start earlier?

You might have gotten a bad batch of salt, or it might have settled badly during shipment. I might try mixing the dry salt up and measuring a fresh batch for alkalinity. If it's that high again, I'd try to get my money back on that bag of salt. Lowering the alkalinity can be done safely by water changes with a lower-alkalinity water source.

You can use muriatic acid to drop the alkalinity of some water for changes. Just aerate well before doing the change so that the pH can recover. The basic dosing rule:

Adding 1/11,000 of the water volume as muriatic acid will drop alkalinity by 1 meq/l (2.8 dKH).

[tom g]

I only have soft corals in this tank ... the nems bleached months ago ... and have not come back at all ... opaque with tips pinkish....


iwas thinking that with the salt I will try in am to mix some more up and mix up the dry mixture .. the salt is about a year old ,instant ocean in the box with separate bags ....I usually open and drop into a bucket .
I didn't mix up the dry salt at all that I remember , but its something that I have never done or had this issue .

mixing the muratic acid . do u do that in the tank with fish and corals .
I don't understand your 1/11000 water volume measurement ..

thanks for the reply
tom

[bertoni]

I would avoid dosing muriatic acid into a tank with animals. I was trying to suggest dosing muriatic acid into water for changes, if you want to speed the drop of the alkalinity level.

About 3 ml of muriatic acid will drop the alkalinity of 10 gallons of freshly-mixed saltwater about 2.8 dKH. The pH will drop quite a bit, but will rise back up with some aeration. I'd be very cautious handling muriatic acid, if you choose to try this approach. The fumes are toxic, and I'd wear chemically-resistant gloves and goggles.

[tom g]

ok I was unclear

I understand just in the made salt water ...

I will continue to monitor I am uncomfortable with adding muratic acid

thanks for the clarifications

[bertoni]

That sounds like a fine plan to me. I stay away from muriatic acid myself.

[tom g]

do u think dosing vineager will help to lower it , or would it take a hole lot of vin
to drop down the alk ...I don't think 50 ml of vinn will drop it enough ...

[bertoni]

Vinegar binds alkalinity very temporarily. Once bacteria consume the organic acid, the alkalinity is released. There's no way to drop alkalinity permanently other than using a mineral acid. I don't know of any off-hand that are inexpensive, easily available, and safer than muriatic acid.

[tom g]

ok , ill just ride it out ...I am looking to get rid of instant ocean and try something different .

[bertoni]

I think some aggressive waiting will be fine. :)

Instant Ocean usually is fine, but all the brands of salt mixes seem to go through bad batches. Sigh!

[Sk8r]

Wait. When mg drops below 1200 alk will sink fast.

[outssider]

15 is awfully high for I.O. ......are you confident that your salifert kit is accurate ???

I use I.O.R.C...and it always mixes up in the 11-12 area (when I check). If it mixed up to 15, first thing I would question is the alkalinity kit (hanna) even though the hanna has never given me a bad reading i'd still question it's accuracy.....When I validated the reading next step is to call spectrum brands and give them hell .....;)

[tom g]

I used a salifert kit and when I was reading high , I had another set which I used and same results , my first instinct was ,was it a bad kit ..

[Reefpuck]

Grab a redsea test kit before taking extreme measures.

[Redseadragon12]

I think some aggressive waiting will be fine. :)

Instant Ocean usually is fine, but all the brands of salt mixes seem to go through bad batches. Sigh!

LOL thats what I would do also.

[tom g]

Well after 3 weeks and 3 15 gallon water changes
My alk is at 7.7dkh
Now to keep it there ...
Thanks for the help guys

[bertoni]

You're welcome. I'm glad to hear that the problem is under control. :)

[HBtank]

Aggressive waiting...

I like that! Universally good advice in the hobby! :fish2:

[tom g]

Ok I thought I had this beat .... last week did 15 gal water change ... checked alk immediately after and results were 8.0 dkh realizing that could be a little premature for a chk .. but I was curious..
Just dud a parameter chk

1.023
Alk...14.7
Cal....460

What am I doing wrong does this make scense

[Cheapreef]

Are you using RODI water or Tap/prime?

[Pslreefer]

I had the same problem with alk at 15. I’ve noticed there have been other threads with the sand issue. Are you using instant ocean? I think there may have been a bad batch released.

I bought new salt and after 15g water changes for the past few weeks mine in down to 11


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[tom g]

this tank was topped off with tap water last three water changes and saltwater had been ro water .. is it possibility that the tap water has created this high alk in the system ...

[Cheapreef]

this tank was topped off with tap water last three water changes and saltwater had been ro water .. is it possibility that the tap water has created this high alk in the system ...

Ro or RODI? Whichever it is check your alk in the water you use to mix your saltwater. Whatever Alk it is at will add to the saltmix alk, so 7 DKH water and 8 DKH saltmix will mix up to 15 DKH.

[tom g]

I chked the salt water I mixed up prior to taking it to the office it was 8.0 dkh....I use ro/di at home ....
how long does it take alk to deplete .. is there a way to speed it up or should I just let it come down on its own .
only corals in tank are leathers and a few bubbletips and some zoas ...

[bertoni]

Tap water can be quite high in dKH. Your alkalinity kit can give you some idea of the hardness, although a saltwater kit won't read all that well in fresh water. The endpoint of the pH titration is different, so the saltwater kit will read a bit high, as I recall.

If all the animals are doing well enough, I'd let the alkalinity drop over time. I'm not sure that I trust the readings yet, so I'd get second opinions on the SG, calcium, and alkalinity levels. I'd raise the SG slowly if it's actually that low.

[tom g]

I will do some aggressice waiting ....

all fish are doing well ... I will lay off on the water changes for a few weeks
I will continue to use ro/di water and slowly start to get this tank in order

there is some really funky looking black algae at the top of the tank on the rockwork , really nasty stuff when I syphon it out its like a skin and then some detris or loose crap underneath it I have not seen this kind of algae before
not sure if this is helping with the prob I syphoned it last week and its back again ...

[bertoni]

Removing organic debris can help with nutrient levels and possibly with animal health, but the alkalinity level won't be affected much, if any.

[tom g]

ok thank u bertoni... I appreciate all the help u have given me ..and of course everyone else as well ...

[jeepguy242]

test kit bad?

i have never seen alk that high

[tom g]

I have tried 2 diff salifert kits ,actually just got a refill for the hanna chker and was gonna try that out tonite ...but I test my alk on my home tank and I am at 8.0 dkh

[jeepguy242]

that rules out the bad kit

[tom g]

checked readings with a hanna alk tester and readings are 15.3.....

like I was told earlier by someone I will continue topping up with rodi water and will hold off on water changes and let the number come down .
I have some dark black algae I will syphon that off instead of water changes ...
I guess it will be a waiting game

[bertoni]

Okay. With the dKH that high, the drop might take quite a while, but the tank should be safe enough. If you can get a source for lower-dKH saltwater, that would help the drop, but I think the normal water change routine should be fine.

[tom g]

hey guys its been a few weeks of patience , not sure I'm doing some aggressive waiting , this damn alk is not dropping I have no idea what is going on , should I keep waiting o should I plan a restart of this tank ....

[oldhead]

hey guys its been a few weeks of patience , not sure I'm doing some aggressive waiting , this damn alk is not dropping I have no idea what is going on , should I keep waiting o should I plan a restart of this tank ....

Definitely lay off the water changes. (it has only been 7 days since you said you would, that is not aggressive waiting). Test a couple times a week but it may take at least a month to come down. Unless of course you do a water change, then it will take longer.

[bertoni]

Hmm, my response seems to have disappeared. Maybe I didn't hit the right button.

Have you measured some freshly-mixed saltwater? Maybe the mix is bad. I'd also test the RO/DI, just on general principles. It should measure 0 dKH. A saltwater kit will be somewhat inaccurate on RO/DI, but it'd be more than good enough.

[tom g]

I have tested the salt water and use the same batch for my home display tank it is about 8.0
my rodi is about 5 and its time to change filters I just ordered them the other day actually .
as for the office tank it is getting water from home no longer using office water as I know this is what has most prob created this problem , till I can get a rodi unit installed at the office then this is the way it will have to be .
as for waiting I guess I will h ave to wait more ,

[Cheapreef]

I have tested the salt water and use the same batch for my home display tank it is about 8.0
my rodi is about 5 and its time to change filters I just ordered them the other day actually .
as for the office tank it is getting water from home no longer using office water as I know this is what has most prob created this problem , till I can get a rodi unit installed at the office then this is the way it will have to be .
as for waiting I guess I will h ave to wait more ,

I think I said this back in post #23, unless your fresh RODI water is 0 it adds to the salt mix Alk. If tap it adds 7-8+ whatever yout tap tests out at.

[tom g]

yes I totally understand that and agree with it , but what blows my mind is my display tank with the same salt and same water is at 8.0 ...
that's why I am 100 pecrent sure its the tap water that did it at her office ..now I have to hope it comes out and starts dropping was contemplating doing a huge 50 gallon swap out , but as u guys have said to have patience

[bertoni]

I think that 15 dKH should be safe, so I'd be careful. Some cures can be much worse than the disease. As long as the tank is doing well enough, I'd move carefully. There's no need to rush in this situation.