Ich; Are we all wrong?

[turbo5000c]

Before I start this conversation I am only gathering information. I am not making any statements; this is just a theory.

I know its almost set in stone that when your fish has ich you quarantine and treat for up to 4 weeks until the fish is clear.

My question is why so long? If we know the trophont feeds on the fish for about 3–7 days, why is it not safe to move the fish back after the tomite moves to the substrate and encysts,

Isn't this the perfect time to move the fish back into the main display? The fish is not infected at that point..

Am I not correct? If so please correct and educate me.

[Tripod1404]

Because trophonts that dropped and encysted on day 3 could become free swimming and infect the fish on day 7 before you remove the fish to DT. If you remove fish earlier there might still be trophonts on it. Not to mention fish do not have a monuculture of ich that all infected it on the same day. What you describe as day 3 can already be day one for ich infected the fish a day ago and ay 7 for a ich that infected it 7 days ago. So there are dropping and reattaching ichs on every day. It is not like all drop at the same time or all infect at the same time.

All in all you will also transfer water that has ich in it to your DT. One drop of water with free swimming ich in it is enough for introducing ich.

[Crooked Reef]

Also, if you are pulling the fish from the display for treatment then your display system has inch in it. Removing all fish from the display lets the ice die out so that when you reintroduce your fish there is no more inch in the system.

[Sisterlimonpot]

Also, if you are pulling the fish from the display for treatment then your display system has inch in it. Removing all fish from the display lets the ice die out so that when you reintroduce your fish there is no more inch in the system.

haha,
Inch=Ich
Ice=Ich

The slang that kids use these days... :spin2:

[turbo5000c]

[QUOTE=Tripod1404;25412813. What you describe as day 3 can already be day one for ich infected the fish a day ago and ay 7 for a ich that infected it 7 days ago. So there are dropping and reattaching ichs on every day. It is not like all drop at the same time or all infect at the same time. .[/QUOTE]

True I never thought of that.

I bought a kole tang about 3 months ago. A week after putting the fish is the DT I saw ich, So I removed the fish, and put it in at QT tank for 4 weeks. Now back in the DT the damn thing has ich again. TBH I would rather not QT the fish again and let it play out. I know it sounds cruel but ****. I haven’t dealt with ich for years and years and I really don’t have the time for this right now. To much is going on in my life. All my other fish are healthy, it just sucks because this fish is now putting my entire system in jeopardy.

[sde1500]

True I never thought of that.

I bought a kole tang about 3 months ago. A week after putting the fish is the DT I saw ich, So I removed the fish, and put it in at QT tank for 4 weeks. Now back in the DT the damn thing has ich again. TBH I would rather not QT the fish again and let it play out. I know it sounds cruel but ****. I haven’t dealt with ich for years and years and I really don’t have the time for this right now. To much is going on in my life. All my other fish are healthy, it just sucks because this fish is now putting my entire system in jeopardy.

What did you do for the fish during those 4 weeks? Also that wasn't enough fallow time to allow the DT to clear of ich.

[shaginwagon13]

True I never thought of that.

I bought a kole tang about 3 months ago. A week after putting the fish is the DT I saw ich, So I removed the fish, and put it in at QT tank for 4 weeks. Now back in the DT the damn thing has ich again. TBH I would rather not QT the fish again and let it play out. I know it sounds cruel but ****. I haven’t dealt with ich for years and years and I really don’t have the time for this right now. To much is going on in my life. All my other fish are healthy, it just sucks because this fish is now putting my entire system in jeopardy.

If you don't have inverts in the main display you can use Hypo in the main system.

[turbo5000c]

If you don't have inverts in the main display you can use Hypo in the main system.

What about the coral? Will they be ok?

[shaginwagon13]

What about the coral? Will they be ok?

Oh ya that's a no go also.

Hmmmmmm do you have a QT tank you can run hypo in?

[turbo5000c]

Oh ya that's a no go also.

Hmmmmmm do you have a QT tank you can run hypo in?

Yes; its just a pain in the *** to catch the fish lol

I need to find the time and bite the bullet.

[shaginwagon13]

Yes; its just a pain in the *** to catch the fish lol

I need to find the time and bite the bullet.

Ya that's the hard part.

I found the best way was with a clear garbage bag (sort of like the clear ones for recycling). Place it in the tank, try and weight down the bottom on the sandbed and attach fishing lines to the bottom of the bag. Sort of like having the entrance to the bag open in the water. Then toss some food it.... they swim right in.

[Crooked Reef]

haha,
Inch=Ich
Ice=Ich

The slang that kids use these days... :spin2:

I hate autocorrect.

[stuccodude]

my experience with ich,. i believe ich is in all tanks. i had a 135 and no ich and have not put a new fish in it or coral in almost 2 years and bought a used 240 and he has not put a fish in his tank in years too and i take half my water, half his water and the rest new water transfer everything to the 240 and get the worst ich outbreak i have ever had. i have had good luck with feeding garlic for 2 weeks and let the fish ride it out. i dont qt and almost always get ich on any new fish. just my experience. wanna be a rich man, invent a reef safe ich medicine.

[neilp2006]

There’s a rapid ich eradication technique called Tank Transfer Method. Ideally, you do 4 full tank changes in 12 days and your fish is ich free. But you need two sets of qt equipment. People use 10-20 gallon tanks and sponge filters to great effect.

Unfortunately, only way to rid a full DT of ich is to run it fish free, or ‘fallow’ for 76 days. Best to do ttm on anything going into a new system to avoid that fir as long as you can


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[Trigger Tough]

my experience with ich,. i believe ich is in all tanks. i had a 135 and no ich and have not put a new fish in it or coral in almost 2 years and bought a used 240 and he has not put a fish in his tank in years too and i take half my water, half his water and the rest new water transfer everything to the 240 and get the worst ich outbreak i have ever had. i have had good luck with feeding garlic for 2 weeks and let the fish ride it out. i dont qt and almost always get ich on any new fish. just my experience. wanna be a rich man, invent a reef safe ich medicine.

I agree with this to some extent as well. I’ve had fish for a long time that I believe have had it. If their immune system is strong and they are eating they usually do well

I believe a study was done about it and most fish that survive ich seem to build an immunity to it. If I remember correctly I think 9 months of surviving it makes them immune.

I’ve only had one bad outbreak of ich and it killed my whole tank. A couple of other times I added tangs which developed spots but as long as they were eating they fought it off and survived

I know it’s not really proven but +1 for garlic and Selcon

[nereefpat]

my experience with ich,. i believe ich is in all tanks. i had a 135 and no ich and have not put a new fish in it or coral in almost 2 years and bought a used 240 and he has not put a fish in his tank in years too and i take half my water, half his water and the rest new water transfer everything to the 240 and get the worst ich outbreak i have ever had. i have had good luck with feeding garlic for 2 weeks and let the fish ride it out. i dont qt and almost always get ich on any new fish. just my experience. wanna be a rich man, invent a reef safe ich medicine.

My tank doesn't have ich. I did TTM on all current fish. You don't qt, and almost always get ich on new fish?...hmmm.


I know it’s not really proven but +1 for garlic and Selcon

I thought we were past this.

[Dmorty217]

Love to see all the snake oil treatments being discussed here. If you don't want ich, QT your fish. Pretty straight forward... Personally ich is the least of your issues if you don't QT fish. Just wait until you bring in velvet and wipe out the entire tank. This is why the average time people spend in the hobby is less than 3 years, you invest all this money just to watch it all be taken away because you were lazy or not knowledgable enough. Neither of which makes for longevity in the hobby.

[shaginwagon13]

My tank doesn't have ich. I did TTM on all current fish. You don't qt, and almost always get ich on new fish?...hmmm.

I thought we were past this.

LOL. Can someone please just develop a reef safe cure. PLEASE

[turbo5000c]

LOL. Can someone please just develop a reef safe cure. PLEASE

Two electric probes hooked up to a car battery! Once connected place the two remaining probes in tank.

For those who cant tell.. DON'T NOT DO THIS lol

[shaginwagon13]

Two electric probes hooked up to a car battery! Once connected place the two remaining probes in tank.

For those who cant tell.. DON'T NOT DO THIS lol

....I'm assuming you should also have one hand in the tank while standing on a metal ladder? :deadhorse:

[turbo5000c]

....I'm assuming you should also have one hand in the tank while standing on a metal ladder? :deadhorse:

ONLY if you want to do it the right way! :lolspin:

[shaginwagon13]

ONLY if you want to do it the right way! :lolspin:

:debi: haha

[ca1ore]

my experience with ich,. i believe ich is in all tanks. i had a 135 and no ich and have not put a new fish in it or coral in almost 2 years and bought a used 240 and he has not put a fish in his tank in years too and i take half my water, half his water and the rest new water transfer everything to the 240 and get the worst ich outbreak i have ever had. i have had good luck with feeding garlic for 2 weeks and let the fish ride it out. i dont qt and almost always get ich on any new fish. just my experience. wanna be a rich man, invent a reef safe ich medicine.

I think ick is in all tanks of people who don't QT; and is not in all tanks of people who do.

[stuccodude]

I think ick is in all tanks of people who don't QT; and is not in all tanks of people who do.

even after 2 years, maybe, just my experience.

[earwicker7]

my experience with ich,. i believe ich is in all tanks. i had a 135 and no ich and have not put a new fish in it or coral in almost 2 years and bought a used 240 and he has not put a fish in his tank in years too and i take half my water, half his water and the rest new water transfer everything to the 240 and get the worst ich outbreak i have ever had. i have had good luck with feeding garlic for 2 weeks and let the fish ride it out. i dont qt and almost always get ich on any new fish. just my experience. wanna be a rich man, invent a reef safe ich medicine.

Ich is an obligate parasite. This means it dies without a specific host. It can't live on algae, or detritus, or snails.

So no fish in the display tank means no food source, and all of the parasites die.

Unless you introduce ich by not quarantining, it doesn't just spontaneously spawn in the display tank.

[norfolkgarden]

Will you also need to QT snails, starfish (keeping them under water), new corals (a good idea, dipping and observation) but specifically for ich?



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[JordyRoo]

Whats the ideal way of treating Corals then? a seperate QT for fish & seperate QT for coral?

[nereefpat]

Will you also need to QT snails, starfish (keeping them under water), new corals (a good idea, dipping and observation) but specifically for ich?

Unfortunately, and technically, anything wet could potentially bring in the cyst stage. A lot of folks just take the risk.

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Whats the ideal way of treating Corals then? a seperate QT for fish & seperate QT for coral?

Corals ideally should be in a fishless system for 72-76 days.

[homer1475]

Hmm....

Anecdotal evidence by hobbyists, or reproduced test result done in a lab by actual scientists.

I'll take the latter thank you.

[shaginwagon13]

Ich is an obligate parasite. This means it dies without a specific host. It can't live on algae, or detritus, or snails.

So no fish in the display tank means no food source, and all of the parasites die.

Unless you introduce ich by not quarantining, it doesn't just spontaneously spawn in the display tank.

Agreed. But it can be in the water when you buy snails, chaeto, inverts, ect. You can dip in tank water and try your absolute best not to get any store water in your tank, but there is always the chance it comes in.... IMO its not realistic to quarantine inverts, plants, chaeto, ect.

Corals I do but not for ICH for a host of coral infections and unwanted goodies.

[turbo5000c]

UPDATE: Well I'm on day 3 with my Kole tang ( named Pune-Tang ) having the smallest case of ich I have ever seen. Its only in his fins and not a single dot on his/her body. I am almost not convinced this is ich...
For treatment I have been over feeding to keep his immune system strong. Adding Seachem Focus and MetroPlex into the food. Also I am adding a couple drops of Garlic to help hide the medicine taste. The fish is still aggressively eating. I have a QT tank setup in-case the ich spreads to the body. Overall I feel that moving the fish is sometimes for detrimental to their health. I will keep everyone posted.

Keeping my fingers crossed!

[nereefpat]

Any way we could see a pic? It might just be lymphocystis.

[turbo5000c]

Any way we could see a pic? It might just be lymphocystis.

Little Bugger wont hold still. However when i turned the lights on higher for a pic I did see more dots on the body. :(

[nikon187]

even after 2 years, maybe, just my experience.

Without a host impossible. Ich needs fish in the tank to survive long term. Ich is NOT in every tank, have hundreds running no ich and new fish every week. Can not stress the importance of a proper QT

[nikon187]

To the op, i would remove the tang, place in qt with hypo treatment and leave the display without fish for 5+ weeks.

[lzkamp]

Do you guys QT inverts, specifically shrimp?

[NYCBOB]

all corals and inverts need to be QT too. I lost half of my fish to either ich or velvet because i added a coral to the DT without QT. I QT all fish for 4-6 weeks prior. Never had ich for years. all it takes is 1 drop of contaminated water to infect the whole system.

[shaginwagon13]

Do you guys QT inverts, specifically shrimp?

You should. I personally don't have any cause I have two triggers that would make a nice meal of any shrimp.

[neilp2006]

Corals ideally should be in a fishless system for 72-76 days.



This is only if you keep the original frag plug. The cyst can attach to those.

Remove the frag and put it on a new plug, and you’re good after a few weeks observation- there are other coral pests you need to look for too


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[tthouston]

Before I start this conversation I am only gathering information. I am not making any statements; this is just a theory.

I know its almost set in stone that when your fish has ich you quarantine and treat for up to 4 weeks until the fish is clear.

My question is why so long? If we know the trophont feeds on the fish for about 3–7 days, why is it not safe to move the fish back after the tomite moves to the substrate and encysts,

Are you sure the fish had only ONE trophont on their body 7 days ago? If you know only one and it leaves the fish's body, then the fish is free ich. That's why they use to TTM way to reduce the Trophont.


Isn't this the perfect time to move the fish back into the main display? The fish is not infected at that point..

You said "move it back" that mean that fish had ich in the tank. We don't have any medicine can kill Tomont (Eggs), we only kill it when Tomont burst and become tomites and Tomont takes at least 21 days to burst (in here I just say one Tomont, your tank should have more than a thousand Tomont with different days)
Are you sure your DT ich free?

Am I not correct? If so please correct and educate me.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwit1afKmrraAhVGcq0KHXtAAYwQjRx6BAgAEAU&url=https%3A%2F%2Freefbase.co.uk%2Fmarine-fish-diseases%2Fmarine-white-spot-ich-cryptocaryon-irritans%2F&psig=AOvVaw3G3Lli382cjBpVl6RU2uNX&ust=1523809077705901

[pache11]

I run mostly shrimp gobies in my reef tanks. I have never seen one with ich in any tank or store


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