Tang advice

[hammertime55]

So I've had my 75 up for about 2 months now and learning what NOT to do fast and expensively.

I have started with 5 blue damels and 5 green damels along with a lawnmower blennie and 7 peppermint shrimp. They seem to be all "getting along" so far.

I want to add a Tang to help control algea growth. The big question is will these damsels freak out and gang up on the new Tang? They are only juvies so I was hoping that the larger Tang would be ok.

Comments and reccomendations on specific Tang for this size tank? I read the list on the Tang thread so I have a good idea. There is alot of live rock BTW.

[hammertime55]

sorry, Damsels not Damels!

[mcgyvr]

I will just about guarantee that a tang is not the solution to your algae problem..
I certainly would not suggesting getting one in response to it either..
They rarely make any dent in nuisance algae issues..

Do you measure nitrates and phosphates?
If so what are your current measurements?
What is your current water change schedule?
Have you determined what type of algae you are working with? Picture?

[nereefpat]

What species of damsels? Are they chromis? In general, it will be tough to keep 10 damsels living peacefully in a 75.

As for tangs for a 75:

There aren't too many. Most Ctenochaetus (bristletooth genus) tangs will be OK, except the chevron. They may not get along with your lawnmower blenny though.

The smaller Zebrasoma (sailfin genus) tangs like yellow, purple, and scopus aren't ideal for a 75, but will probably by ok if one is the only large resident of the tank.

Many snails are good algae eaters btw, especially the big Mexican turbo snails.

[kevin21]

^^ That....Don't add a tang to a 75. Way too small.

If you can answer those questions, we can help you solve the problem. Could be weekly water changes as a fix, or a different way of solving your high nutrient problem.

[thearsalan1]

For your algae issue, lawnmower blenny has been proven to be the best fish imo.
As far as the fish fighting, it’s tough to say as each individual fish have different personalities. Some fish may fight in someone’s tank, but the same type of fish will be fine in another tank. It’s tough to predict who will fight and who won’t. Damsels are usually mean, but generally shouldn’t bother a tang much.



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[hammertime55]

I do a 10% water change weekly. Nutrients are measured bi weekly. Nitrates are generally a bit above normal but not too bad. All others are in check. I attribute most of the algea problem to the nitrate level. I guess I'm feeding too much. That's going to be trail and error with 10 new fish in the tank. Suggestions with feeding quantity?

I am adding another waver runner to the tank today. I have some red algea on the sand. When I point the wave runner down towards the bottom is goes away, duh.

I have some green hair algea. Corraline algea also but I've read that is a good thing. So what I get from the advise I have gotten so far is maybe forgo the Tang for now. Maybe the Lawnmower will keep it in check. I don't have a massive growth, just trying to be proactive.

The Blue Damsels are Chrysiptera cyanea. The Green Damsels are Chromis viridis.

[mcgyvr]

I'd bet the red is cyanobacteria not algae..

Also.. don't be afraid to post actual numbers (and please do).. We have all been there.. Posting "a bit above normal" is really just useless information... same with "all others are in check"..

If you want a tang as a fish.. fine.. make sure its one of the smaller varieties as your tank is at the lower limit for "tang happiness" but don't do it to solve an algae problem..
Just get those nutrients in check and see how that goes..

Snails as stated may be better suited to tackle the algae.. Or an urchin..

[kevin21]

Tough to give advice on what you have said, but I suggest weekly water changes and only feed enough food that will be snatched up by fish in about 45 seconds time. Also make sure you dont have a lot of detritus build up around the tank. Blow rocks with turkey baster before water changes. It should help.

[Uncle99]

The green stuff goes when nitrates are consistently between 2-4ppm, phosphate is between .02-.04, the photoperiod is in the 8-9 hour range, the intensity is only what the corals need to feed and the water is RODI with a TDS much less than 5ppm.

Add good flow, carbon dose daily, scrub and pick off the rest.

With this I have no need for CUC

On point water = virtually no algae, should only have to clean the glass once per week, that will indicate the reduction is in gear....

[Sk8r]

GFO is your best algae solution. In a reactor. Phosban is one brand.

[mcgyvr]

GFO is your best algae solution. In a reactor. Phosban is one brand.

I must have missed where they posted their elevated phosphate results....

IF the problem is excessive phosphates then GFO may be one solution..
Its not a blanket solution to a yet undefined problem..

[hammertime55]

Checked the nitrates and they are at 40 ppm. Going to do a 50% water change today. Hopefully that will get it down to 20 ppm. Any suggestions on getting it lower quickly?

[hammertime55]

Nitrates 40 ppm
Calc 340
Phosp 0.25
KH 161.1 ppm

[mcgyvr]

water changes are your best/fastest solution..
You seem to clearly be overfeeding the tank from those numbers IMO...

[hammertime55]

water changes are your best/fastest solution..
You seem to clearly be overfeeding the tank from those numbers IMO...

yeah it does seem to be the problem but to a novice how much is too much? I've read as much as they eat in under a minute. I think that is what I'm doing. There doesn't look like there is anything left and the Green Damsels act as though they are starving all the time!

[MuShu]

A lot of this is also part of the normal "breaking in" phase for tanks. It's known as the uglies and should go away in short order.

That said, I'm going to third the turbo snails and astrea snails as being the best algae eaters, especially for the nuisance algae.

[on the spot]

So I've had my 75 up for about 2 months...

I have started with 5 blue damels and 5 green damels along with a lawnmower blennie and 7 peppermint shrimp. They seem to be all "getting along" so far...

Checked the nitrates and they are at 40 ppm...Any suggestions on getting it lower quickly?

water changes are your best/fastest solution..
You seem to clearly be overfeeding the tank from those numbers IMO...

as MCGYVR suggests your best route to nutrient control at the moment will be water changes.

IMO you should consider thinning your stock. To much of a good thing as they say.

I think I missed where you mentioned what other gear you are using to help clean the water - there are many ways to reach lower numbers.

[Trigger Tough]

You can also dose vodka or vinegar to bring those nitrates down. Randy Holmes Farley has some good articles on it along with dosing schedules

As far as adding a tang I’d go with a Yellow Eye Kole Tang or a Tomini Tang. I’ve had both at separate times in my 70 tank. I’d add them as the last fish in the tank if it’s going to be the biggest fish in there. Shouldn’t be a problem with the Blenny. Right now I have a Kole with a Starry Blenny in my tank and they’re both good with each other

[hammertime55]

as MCGYVR suggests your best route to nutrient control at the moment will be water changes.

IMO you should consider thinning your stock. To much of a good thing as they say.

I think I missed where you mentioned what other gear you are using to help clean the water - there are many ways to reach lower numbers.

I have a protein skimmer. I'm running 2 Jabeo SW-8 pumps, just added the second one this past week. I have them set on the wave 1 setting at the lowest speed.

Should I add a reactor with pellets? I've read where that helps. I don't really want to add a refgium because I don't want to add a light in the sump area. It's only a 4' space and I've already got alot of electrical running this setup on one circuit. But that is an option also.

As far as reducing the livestock. Seems to be doing that on it's on. So far 1 blue damsel and 1 green damsel died this past week and another Blue is staying in what we call coffin corner. (Bottom corner behind rocks) It is breathing heavily and not eating so I don't think it's going to be long before it's gone. So If he dies I will have 4 Greens and 2 Blues and a lawnmower bleenie, 7 peppermint shrimp. Have no idea on count on crabs and snails but at one time there where 20 snails and maybe 10 crabs. I have ordered 100 snails, they should be here in a couple days.

The end game here is to turn this into a reef. Obviously I have to get the chemistry right before jumping in. I have added 3 polyps so far and planted them in the sand bed. One of them is doing very well, 1 is doing ok, and 1 is probaly dead. They have been in the tank about 3 weeks or so.

Thanks everyone for the input, please keep it coming. I truely love this endeavor and take critism well.

[hammertime55]

You can also dose vodka or vinegar to bring those nitrates down. Randy Holmes Farley has some good articles on it along with dosing schedules

As far as adding a tang I’d go with a Yellow Eye Kole Tang or a Tomini Tang. I’ve had both at separate times in my 70 tank. I’d add them as the last fish in the tank if it’s going to be the biggest fish in there. Shouldn’t be a problem with the Blenny. Right now I have a Kole with a Starry Blenny in my tank and they’re both good with each other

Those are the 2 Tangs I was considering. Once I get this thign dialed in correct I'm going to add 1 of those.

[devimik]

I would caution against adding a tang with a Lawnmower Blenny. They both eat algae and compete for it. My experience, having done what you're contemplating, was that the Blenny got picked on by the Yellow Eyed Kole Tang. My Kole killed the Blenny, and my Diamond Goby. I know he killed them because they had slashes in their bodies and every time they tried to come out of hiding, the Tang would back up at them and slap them with its tail. He tried the same with my YWG, but he mostly stays in his cave/hole. I realize I had an oddly aggressive Kole Tang - ended up trading him for a Coral Beauty. Maybe your luck will be better.

I do agree that you aren't going to solve your hair algae problem with a Tang though. As others have said, water changes and cutting back on feeding are good ways to help.

[hammertime55]

I would caution against adding a tang with a Lawnmower Blenny. They both eat algae and compete for it. My experience, having done what you're contemplating, was that the Blenny got picked on by the Yellow Eyed Kole Tang. My Kole killed the Blenny, and my Diamond Goby. I know he killed them because they had slashes in their bodies and every time they tried to come out of hiding, the Tang would back up at them and slap them with its tail. He tried the same with my YWG, but he mostly stays in his cave/hole. I realize I had an oddly aggressive Kole Tang - ended up trading him for a Coral Beauty. Maybe your luck will be better.

I do agree that you aren't going to solve your hair algae problem with a Tang though. As others have said, water changes and cutting back on feeding are good ways to help.

Dang, that's exactly what I don't want to happen. I have lost several fish already due to agressiveness from their own breed and others as well.

[devimik]

Dang, that's exactly what I don't want to happen. I have lost several fish already due to agressiveness from their own breed and others as well.

Of course, I can't say for sure that will happen and my experience is only one.

[Anemone]

100 snails seems like overkill, IMO. In a 75 gallon tank, you're going to have a lot of dead snails, in relatively short order. Most will starve to death, especially if they are primarily turbos and astreas.

Kevin

[devimik]

I think some good advice would be to slow down as you seem to be moving way too fast for a tank up 2 months. Nothing happens quickly in the reef tank world - slow and steady will be better than trying to rush things. Many reefers here have the experience with Chromis that no matter how many you add, you'll eventually end up with 1. Some have had good experiences with large numbers of them, but my experience, after trying multiple times, is I end up with none.

[hammertime55]

I think some good advice would be to slow down as you seem to be moving way too fast for a tank up 2 months. Nothing happens quickly in the reef tank world - slow and steady will be better than trying to rush things. Many reefers here have the experience with Chromis that no matter how many you add, you'll eventually end up with 1. Some have had good experiences with large numbers of them, but my experience, after trying multiple times, is I end up with none.It's been a slow start, first the aiptasia. File fish wiped them out completely except for one that's stuck in the bottom of the overflow. Not sure how to get it without freaking it out and shooting off more of them. Its in a corner under the sponge filter!

Then I added 2 clowns. File fish killed them. Add 2 more same result. Put file fish in qt tank and it starved to death, would not eat food.

Then added the group of damsels thinking maybe if a group of them entered at same time would be non territorial. As I say that I'm watching a Green one chasing another Green one! How do you ever get more than 1 fish at a time to not kill each other?!

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[devimik]

One thing you could do on the remaining aiptasia is cover it with reef epoxy/putty, or hit it with aiptasia X if you can reach it.

It is extremely odd that a file fish would kill clownfish. Not sure I'd add any fish now, or for a while - see how many you end up with in another month or two.

[hammertime55]

Did a 36% water change and nitrates dropped some. They were around 40ppm before the water change. First I turned up the skimmer speed and that alone dropped it to around 20ish. Lesson learned there. After the water chenge it's now somewhere between 15-20ish depending on how you read the color chart. I looked at in indirect outdoor light.

I'm making more water now and will do another 40% change in couple days.

Livestock is thinning itself down to 2 blue damsels and the 4 green damsels along with the lawnmower. I'm sure I will only have 1 blue left soon.

[hammertime55]

Did a 36% water change and nitrates dropped some. They were around 40ppm before the water change. First I turned up the skimmer speed and that alone dropped it to around 20ish. Lesson learned there. After the water chenge it's now somewhere between 15-20ish depending on how you read the color chart. I looked at in indirect outdoor light.

I'm making more water now and will do another 40% change in couple days.

Livestock is thinning itself down to 2 blue damsels and the 4 green damsels along with the lawnmower. I'm sure I will only have 1 blue left soon.

I got the last aptasia while the vaccum tube.

[hammertime55]

Tank has really turned around and is doing well now with nirtrates in the 5-10 range. Best tank has looked since starting it and going through all the newbie aches. I think getting the flow worked out has been the best thing so far as to keeping the algea and cyno in check. Have the return outlet y'd off to hit the front and back glass and the powerheads on the sides aimes at the front glass at angles. https://www.dropbox.com/s/bk6wiiuzsw0r49s/0513181000_Burst01-1.jpg?dl=0

[Rjukan]

IMO add a black or blue background, really showcases the rockwork that way.

[Trigger Tough]

You can do either a Kole Tang or Tomini Tang in a tank that size. I’ve had both. They’re great fish just do one or the other not both