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View Full Version : Ever buy too many bottles of stuff & then get confused?


KarenLR75
05/22/2018, 04:24 PM
When I was in hospital for 4 wks earlier this year, I had been trying to research things we'd need to keep various corals happy (i.e. supplements, food, etc.). One unfortunate lingering effect of illness is a horrible impact to cognitive functioning which I may or may not get back. It's odd to share that but I don't want ppl to feel I am not doing due diligence.

Now it's many months later and we've suddenly added to our # of corals, I'm trying to recall when/where/how/why each of the items listed below should be used. OK, a few are slightly understood but I figured I'd post here in case someone could immediately clarify thru their experience the 'when/where/how/why':


Kent Marine 00610 Lugol's Solution
Seachem Reef Plus
Coral Frenzy `The Ultimate Coral Food` 56g
Brightwell Aquatics 1-30 Micron Aquatics PhytoChrom Color Enhancing Phytoplankton Supplement, 250 mL
Brightwell Aquatics ABAFER250 Ferrion Liquid Salt Water Conditioners for Aquarium, 8-Ounce
Reef Chili (OK I know why I got this but is this a 'duplicate' of Coral Frenzy?)

Finally - what is the difference, if any, between Revive and Coral RX and Lugol's Solution?

List of corals we have (will appear in 'coral dilemma' topic I'll start after this) in off chance it pertains to anything above like Lugol's solution being something that benefits SPS but not LPS?:

Elegance Coral – (LPS to my surprise) long established, ok well 9 months but it is thriving
Green & Pink Montipora Coral Frag (SPS) – had for same 9 months, lost color but we readjusted placement and green slowly growing back; pink is almost ALL pink again
Hydnophora Coral (SPS to my surprise) – have had for 6 months but it got covered in bryopsis and is slowly growing back its color (green)
Trachyphyllia Brain Coral (LPS) – have had for 6 months, unsure if it is completely happy or not
Goniopora Short Polyp Encrusting (LPS) - have had over 5 months was happy until aptasia irritated it, think part of it has died?
Duncanopsammia Coral (LPS) – new and very happy
Alveopora branching (LPS) - new and shockingly happy
Alveopora tabling (LPS) - new and NOT happy
2 Acan’s (LPS) - need clarification from husband on specifics
Lobophyilia brain coral – (LPS) new and looks almost as it did LFS
War Coral (LPS) – new and deep/rich colors but leery of aggression


Other occupants: hermit crabs, skunk shrimp, red shrimp, white tailed bristletooth tang, percula clowns, melanarus wrasse, firefish. Testing water tonight.

billdogg
05/23/2018, 05:41 AM
The short answer is that you don’t need to add any of those. In fact, any additive that you cannot test for, to insure appropriate levels, should not be used.

NO3
05/23/2018, 09:50 AM
Dear lord Karen.... excuse my opinions as they are just opinions

The best FORM OF DOSING is a WATERCHANGE.

New waterchange has over 70+ elements in the drymix....at the proper proportions.

IMHO.... i would quit buying all those supplements and invest in a much better salt:

Generally Instant Ocean regular salt is garbage. Its formulated for fish-only tanks and really not meant to grow corals. (but some people have success with it, and will tell me i'm DEAD WRONG...just watch) ..... but i personally would never buy reg IO because its too basic of a salt lacking many important elements like low amounts of calc

Instant Ocean Reef Crystals is a step from reg IO.... but IMO its still a lower-end salt mix lacking the right proportions of many elements. Alkalinity that can burn corals.....is way too high with some scientific tests of IORC at a dkh of 13!! It also precipitates quickly, meaning the Calc and Alk separated in the drymix quickly bonds together to form a light brown sludge, which is Calc Carbonate if you premix your salt and let sit around for 2-4weeks before putting into your tank. The way it precipitates is enough for me to give it a big 2 thumbs down. But i will prob be "quoted" and shot out of the sky like a clay pigeon for saying this about Reef Crystals. :(

People buy IO and IORC bc of PRICE then want to justify their savings, saying their 87octane is really 130octane jet fuel.

Mfgrs i really really like are:

RedSea Coral Pro
SeaChem
Fritz
Tropic Marin
Brightwell

billdogg
05/23/2018, 11:36 AM
^^^I find this hard to believe^^^

I have been using IO or RC almost exclusively for 30 years, although I have used most of the other major brands once or twice (when they are on sale). I have no problem at all keeping my parameters in line, and in fact have found that IO, if anything, runs sorta high on alkalinity. My tank is nearly overgrown with SPS, to the point where I inadvertently make frags at every water change just by putting my hands in there.

FWIW - many major aquariums (Shedd's for instance) use IO and always have.

KarenLR75
05/23/2018, 02:33 PM
The short answer is that you don’t need to add any of those. In fact, any additive that you cannot test for, to insure appropriate levels, should not be used.

Hey billdogg,

I'm always pleased when you comment on my topcis..I also enjoy reading your comments on other threads. You (billdogg), FoxFace Fish, Homer1475, lionfish300, crawlerman, CindyK, sde1500 (love your sense of humor) mcgyvr (with his VERY dry sense of humor..lol)…made me feel very welcome when I posted my first topic “Elegance Coral - new & my only coral - is something wrong?”.

Regarding this topic though - Ah...lovely. What you say does make sense. If you can't test for it...it becomes a factor that is out of your control.

Making the assumption and maybe this is incorrect, that some type of 'coral food' addition is needed for corals that are not photosynthetic (or ones that are but also like additional foods on occasion) or should it be the same 'PE Mysis' that we feed our fish should be enough for the corals?

By coral 'food' I'm talking Reef Chili, Reef Roids, Coral Frenzy...one of those type of products.

KarenLR75
05/23/2018, 02:43 PM
Generally Instant Ocean regular salt is garbage. Its formulated for fish-only tanks and really not meant to grow corals. (but some people have success with it, and will tell me i'm DEAD WRONG) ..... but i personally would never buy reg IO because its too basic of a salt lacking many important elements like low amounts of calc, alk, mag, etc etc.

Instant Ocean Reef Crystals is a step from reg IO.... but IMO its still a lower-end salt mix lacking the right proportions of many elements. It also precipitates quickly, meaning the Calc and Alk separated in the drymix quickly bonds together to form a brown sludge, which is Calc Carbonate if you premix your salt and let sit around for 2-4weeks before putting into your tank. The way it precipitates is enough for me to give it a big 2 thumbs down. But i will prob be "quoted" and shot out of the sky like a clay pigeon for saying this about Reef Crystals. :(

Hey NO3,

When we had a fish only tank 20+ yrs ago, we used instant ocean for many years but it was not a reef tank. I do know when this tank was setup, my husband bought only Red Sea Coral Pro Salt. I'm not sure why he decided to do this but I know he look at Instant Ocean as well as it was our previously trusted brand for many years.

As to whether the reef crystals are good or not, I have no clue as we've never used them but I suspect based on the way our comment was worded that it is a hot topic...or one where there are some divided feelings..

You made me laugh when you alluded to skeet (or maybe trap) shooting. I could well imagine it as my son-in-law has for the past 4 yrs shot at the World Skeet Championships in TX. I think he was PA state champion for a while..not sure if he was champion in a specific gauge or overall..but what a freaking COMPLEX sport. I'd rather fight cyano and bryopsis than try to shoot and hit 100 out of 100 clay pigeons (gauge by gauge by gauge) while people watched!!

NO3
05/23/2018, 04:10 PM
*** I removed my comments ***

sde1500
05/23/2018, 04:13 PM
I don’t see any issue with some food for corals. Flat out saying don’t dose what you can’t test in response to the list you provided is missing the point. Most of what you listed is coral food. So they do help corals. Just, it is quite minimal. Like, very little. But it does help so go for it. No need for any trace element dosing really. Water changes is just fine. Skip the lugols and water conditioner. I’d look for a live phyto product too, better than dead. Not entirely sure if that one is live or dead.

Logols is iodine based, revive and rx I’m not sure of.

sde1500
05/23/2018, 04:16 PM
Of course you do.....in the 8yrs I have followed RC I have yet to see ANYONE post smthg that had a 100% consensus on ANYTHING.

Every one on RC has a strong opinion and are quick to point out they are RIGHT and everyone else is LESS THAN RIGHT

Heck.... You can't even post saying "saltwater is need for fish to swim and coral to grow".... without someone from Yahoo, Kansas or Yippee, Oregon saying..... "well, define the term s.a.l.t.w.a.t.e.r.?"

I look to RC for advice & to learn.....but its growing to be a "I-know-it-all-and-you-don't" kinda site with some very closed minded posters.



Then post actual data to back up calling reef crystals a bad salt. You know, proof

NO3
05/23/2018, 04:30 PM
The term BAD is a term you put on my mouth.

IORC isn't 'bad"....just better options out there. HOLD YOUR FIRE GUYS...GEEZ


High alk:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-e2nmtzJA_g

Chart showing IORC at an Alk of 13!!! Holy xXxX:
http://www.saltwateraquariumblog.com/best-aquarium-salt-mix-review-popular-reef-salt-mix-options/

Not a glowing analysis from this marine biologist:
https://reefhub.pl/test-of-marine-salts/

inconsistency of batches:
https://forums.saltwaterfish.com/index.php?threads/why-i-continue-to-use-reef-crystals.400671/

https://www.nano-reef.com/forums/topic/178218-bad-batch-of-reef-crystals/

KarenLR75
05/23/2018, 07:01 PM
I don’t see any issue with some food for corals. Flat out saying don’t dose what you can’t test in response to the list you provided is missing the point. Most of what you listed is coral food. So they do help corals. Just, it is quite minimal. Like, very little. But it does help so go for it. No need for any trace element dosing really. Water changes is just fine. Skip the lugols and water conditioner. I’d look for a live phyto product too, better than dead. Not entirely sure if that one is live or dead.

Logols is iodine based, revive and rx I’m not sure of.

sde1500 - thanks for bringing up something I didn't know how to word. Sometimes when reading long threads about chemistry, nutrition for fish, nutrition for corals, it's almost feels like a fire hose sometimes (only so much 'gets in'). Sometimes when I read instructions from places like LA on 'coral care' or even here, I'm unsure unless the poster is VERY clear if we are talking 'live' or 'not powdered' type of food.

When i read I also play the proverbial devil's advocate in my head. I think there is truth for specific categories of things to 'not add what you cannot test for'..and then as you said, there are things I think many ppl don't or cannot test for...I certainly would not dose for calcium (back when our calcium was below the target range we were using) and then not be able to test for it.

I read often that strontium and other things need to be supplemented and I REALIZE I HAVE a tiny 'mimic/facsimile of the ocean' (ugh, not words I want but it will suffice)...but that ocean sure knows what it is doing when it comes to growing corals.

So my takeaway is I need to find out what my corals truly need to have added that would not be a product or byproduct of something they already get from being in my aquarium....

KarenLR75
05/23/2018, 07:20 PM
The term BAD is a term you put on my mouth.

IORC isn't 'bad"....just better options out there. HOLD YOUR FIRE GUYS...GEEZ


NO3 - please don't feel you need to remove comments (sorry, I know it wasn't from this current 'quotation') especially if they don't violate posting rules.

While in regards to the reef crystals and whether they are someone's preference, etc., I think it's great that you have data to go with your experience/opinions.

I do know that my husband agrees with you strongly on something you alluded to and this is not meant towards any of the ppl who have been on this thread cuz I'm fond of billdogg, sde1500, etc. but I know he will not..or so far has not posted on here and on another forum as he feels that there is too much 'other stuff' that will be commented on and feels it is not productive.

I know he told me if I shared what lights we had, I'd probably get flamed...do I know if that's absolutely true..not completely but most ppl around are very PASSIONATE. I know I'm that way and in my 20's I was counseled by a mentor that sometimes my message gets lost because of that. I didn't necessarily 'change' per se as much as I honed & then learned thru hard knocks that I have to decide if I want to win a battle, win the war, or if it's not something that is worth dying on a hill for (i.e. I choose more wisely now)

Not sure if ppl realize sometimes that esp to newbies..when we might do something..well, stupid or we panic (that while I'm now older, I take most of it with a grain of salt) I'd hate for ppl, young or older to feel they need to words things in certain way to AVOID getting flamed. Any place you have humans there will be conflict. Conflict doesn't have to be bad nor should it be unkind. That's my opinion. I have had so far, thankfully only 1 time where someone's response felt 'hurtful' & I moved on as it's all ok in the end. They took time to comment & I don't think they intended hurt.

Sorry, way off track. Learning to communicate ESPECIALLY online with passionate ppl..is always going to have an element of trickiness that wouldn't necessarily be there if we were all together in a conference room. And even then, we'd have to sometimes learn to respectfully agree to disagree.

I APPRECIATE everyone who took time to post...I truly do.