valentini puffer white spots

[Tyler438]

Guys, My puffer has white spots, I didn't notice them as much until yesterday.1st picture is day one when I got him 2nd picture is yesterday. Is this normal? He seems to be doing fine.
https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/34070942_10208988053817529_1619248944569647104_n.jpg?_nc_cat=0&oh=7f70b102442c02271a994ce06d5115f9&oe=5B76BD77

https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/34686253_10209017253707508_1058496614244548608_n.jpg?_nc_cat=0&oh=b2dada0f65c551c5f35ba2f198eac866&oe=5B783476

[Rover88]

That looks like Ich to me. Is he in a quarantine tank?

[Tyler438]

That looks like Ich to me. Is he in a quarantine tank?

no, he is in the main tank, I can quarantine him tonight, any suggestions on how to get rid of it? I have a UV filter on that tank will that help? None of the other fish have it.

[Rover88]

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1992196

Read that thread... Also, this is IF I AM RIGHT that it is ich. It sure looks like Ich, but someone with more experience then me might chime in with something else.

If it is...

Unfortunately, your entire display tank now has ich. Those little white dots are the parasite 'budding' up, and when it falls off it encysts in the sand below. It will then multiply into a hundred plus fresh ones, that will infect the rest of your fish, and repeat the cycle.

Treatment involves moving all fish out of the display, and leave your display tank fallow (without FISH) for 72 days or so. Some people will tell you different numbers.

Once the fish are isolated, you can try a copper based medication, tank transfer method, or hyposalinity. Those three are the /only/ way to cure a fish of Ich. Those methods should be discussed more in the above link.


I'm in the middle of this process myself. Unfortunately, this is what we get for not quarantining... If you had placed him in quarantine for a few weeks and noticed them then, it is very easy to treat and your display would have been safe. Sadly, not so much now.

I feel your pain!

[tjm9331]

Yup I agree it definitely looks like ich...if you don't quarantine you should at the very least put your new fish through tank transfer method. This is the least stressful method of making sure your new fish is ich free before putting it in the DT.

Rover is right your options are limited, you could try feeding the fish with garlic soaked food and see if they can fight off the parasite, so long as they are still eating. There are some so called reef safe chemicals that supposedly rid the tank of ich, don't fall for these claims they are basically snake oil.

The best course of action is to remove all your fish and put them through TTM then placed in a quarantine tank until the main display is finished with it's fallow period of at least 72 days. 72 days is the longest ich has been documented to survive in a tank, some will tell you that you can go for a shorter period but its always better to be safe than sorry.

[CSmooth2009]

Get a cleaner shrimp [emoji1360] it’ll handle that ich real quick. It’s a scarlet skunk cleaner shrimp. It’ll probably save ur fish life


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[Uncle99]

Cleaner shrimp will not solve your Ick problem.
You need to do two things:

Remove ALL fish from your DT and put in a QT tank for treatment, the quicker the better.
Your DT must now remain without fish for 72 days. At the end of this time, Ick in the DT is gone.

Treat fish in one of three ways which are posted on this site, TTM is what quite a few do, Hypo, is second in line, third is cupramine. I have done all three over the years and if you follow instructions exactly, your fish should be free of Ick by the time your DT is clean. Likely sooner, but you'll need your DT clean before you put them back in. Make sure you feed well even if they don't eat much, feeding increases their ability to fight the parasite. Vacuum up uneaten food so ammonia does not build in your QT. it does not need to be cycled, but you must keep regular water changes and watch ammonia.

If it is Ick (and yup, that sure looks that way) only the above three ways may save them.

Good luck.

[nereefpat]

Get a cleaner shrimp [emoji1360] it’ll handle that ich real quick. It’s a scarlet skunk cleaner shrimp. It’ll probably save ur fish life


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What incredibly terrible advice. Are you a shrimp salesman?

[CSmooth2009]

What incredibly terrible advice. Are you a shrimp salesman?



Where does it say that I am a shrimp sales man?
And where did I say that solves the problem??

I am not a fan medicating anything in my systems. Ich has a short life period and if the cleaner shrimp can keep most of the ich off and at bay. Then the ich goes away. Where does it say that medications are the cure all and the fish will live 100% of the time? Don’t be a female dog when someone offers advice that has worked for them selves. The shrimp worked for me with two different systems.


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[Uncle99]

There is some evidence that a cleaner may pick at the surface parasites, the ones that are going to fall off and replicate in your DT by 100-200 times, then find the next host to feed off off. If it solved your past problem, maybe it was flukes, it's the replication that makes Ick so dangerous.

[CSmooth2009]

There is some evidence that a cleaner may pick at the surface parasites, the ones that are going to fall off and replicate in your DT by 100-200 times, then find the next host to feed off off. If it solved your past problem, maybe it was flukes, it's the replication that makes Ick so dangerous.



I agree with you.. it’s mainly the surface stuff they get at... and warming up the temp accelerates the process.. medicating will help as well.. I have multiple friends that have reef tanks with a lot of fish... adding just the shrimp helped knocked out the ich problem... I’m not gunna sit here and say I know everything cause I don’t... but experience helps give other people advice on what worked with them personally... this person can do what they want... it’s up to them...


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[Rover88]

Where does it say that I am a shrimp sales man?
And where did I say that solves the problem??

I am not a fan medicating anything in my systems. Ich has a short life period and if the cleaner shrimp can keep most of the ich off and at bay. Then the ich goes away. Where does it say that medications are the cure all and the fish will live 100% of the time? Don’t be a female dog when someone offers advice that has worked for them selves. The shrimp worked for me with two different systems.


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Shrimp can not 'kill' off Ich. What they can do is pick at the parasites that are JUST about to fall off.

The issue is that the most common place for Ich to manifest is within your fish' gills. And there is no way a cleaner shrimp will catch that.

Also, Ich only shows up as the 'white bumps' AFTER it has been feeding on and hosted within the fish for a few days, its the final stage before it drops off to reproduce. No amount of cleaner shrimp will catch all of these.

If you 'beat' Ich this way you were fortunate enough to have hardy fish that fought off the parasite, or you still have a mild case of it living within your fishes gills where you (And the shrimp) can not see. It is not 'gone', and will likely flare up if you have a stresser event that strains your fishes immune system.


Aquarium hobbyists claiming 'it worked for me' without knowing what the life cycle of Ich is, whether its still in their tanks, what the cause of it receding was, or what actually treats it are why there is so much misinformation about it around.


Please read the thread I posted in this for the OP.

[Uncle99]

One of the issues in treating including the cleaner is that it would comprimise all three of the known ways to solve Ick. You would have to transfer the cleaner in TTM, (which defies the whole intention of TTM and QT) and hypo and cupramine would kill the cleaner.

You can't really solve this in the DT because of the parasites ability to replicate 100 of times each round, the cleaner is just not that efficient, and what about the ones that have already fallen off.

I agree with the above assessment that while the cleaner shrimp picked at surface parasites, natural immunity was the solve in your case and that the immunity lasted throughout the fallow period so the DT was cleaned as well.

It's critical to QT fish immediately and start treatment. In this way, 90% of fish live.

[Tyler438]

Thanks for all the advice I will get a QT tank set-up tonight and start this journey. Think it would help to run the uv filter in the QT tank?

[tjm9331]

Guys, My puffer has white spots, I didn't notice them as much until yesterday.1st picture is day one when I got him 2nd picture is yesterday. Is this normal? He seems to be doing fine.

So Tyler, there ya go a few opinions on what you can do to help your fish recover. It's up to you which course of action you want to take, at the end of the day it's your fish, your tank.

I can tell you from experience that the 72 day fishless period and TTM work 99.99% of the time.

And obviously from CSmooth's experience, cleaner shrimp worked for him but I can pretty much guarantee you that the shrimp won't eradicate the parasite, it will most likely only control it.

[Rover88]

Thanks for all the advice I will get a QT tank set-up tonight and start this journey. Think it would help to run the uv filter in the QT tank?

You do not need it, but it will not hurt. (That I'm aware of at least). I'd leave it on your display if it was already there. I believe I read that freefloating Ich that goes through it will die.

If you are treating with Hypo, that is supposed to kill free floating ich, as is copper/cupramine. In TTM, the whole point is to transfer without moving the freefloating ich around.

Do you know what method of treatment you are going with?

I went with Cupramine myself, as I lack the space/equipment/schedule to properly do a TTM, and I wasn't sure I could easily handle hyposalinity.

[accel]

TTM worked for me. I bought two cheapo plastic containers from a hardware store. Added 1.025 salt, airline tubing, airstone, and air pump.

Before 3 days, I use the next container and clean the used one. And repeat.

Well I cheated actually. I bought 10 containers for 10 dollars. So I don't have to clean them right after and just use new ones.

[CSmooth2009]

So Tyler, there ya go a few opinions on what you can do to help your fish recover. It's up to you which course of action you want to take, at the end of the day it's your fish, your tank.



I can tell you from experience that the 72 day fishless period and TTM work 99.99% of the time.



And obviously from CSmooth's experience, cleaner shrimp worked for him but I can pretty much guarantee you that the shrimp won't eradicate the parasite, it will most likely only control it.



Agreed. My way may not have been the best way. It just worked in my few cases.


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[Uncle99]

TTM worked for me. I bought two cheapo plastic containers from a hardware store. Added 1.025 salt, airline tubing, airstone, and air pump.

Before 3 days, I use the next container and clean the used one. And repeat.

Well I cheated actually. I bought 10 containers for 10 dollars. So I don't have to clean them right after and just use new ones.

Cheating is OK, kinda like production line TTM.
Maybe next time I will make a whole bunch of 1.009 for Hypo!

[Tyler438]

You do not need it, but it will not hurt. (That I'm aware of at least). I'd leave it on your display if it was already there. I believe I read that freefloating Ich that goes through it will die.

If you are treating with Hypo, that is supposed to kill free floating ich, as is copper/cupramine. In TTM, the whole point is to transfer without moving the freefloating ich around.

Do you know what method of treatment you are going with?

I went with Cupramine myself, as I lack the space/equipment/schedule to properly do a TTM, and I wasn't sure I could easily handle hyposalinity.

I think I will go with the cupramine method as well, Seems the easiest for a noob.

[Rover88]

Sounds fair, thats what I did. Hold on a second...

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2635979

Have a look through that. Some fish don't tolerate Cupramine/Copper well.


Best of luck!

[nereefpat]

Where does it say that I am a shrimp sales man? It's a joke, and the only reason I could come up with for giving such advice.
And where did I say that solves the problem??



Here

Get a cleaner shrimp [emoji1360] it’ll handle that ich real quick. It’s a scarlet skunk cleaner shrimp. It’ll probably save ur fish life


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[Uncle99]

I think I will go with the cupramine method as well, Seems the easiest for a noob.

Cupramine works well on hardy species but can be problematic on delicates like tangs. If you go with cupramine, you must stay within manufactures guideline of dosage less will not work, more will kill the fish.

I have used both cupramine and hypo on damsels, especially clowns, etc.

I cant stress feeding enough....it's as important as treatment. I used a syringe and frozen brine and fed them twice a day, one piece at a time. They may have stopped eating, or will stop, or eat and spit, don't worry, just keep it up.

You may consider lowering salinity to 1.021 or 1.022, this will aid in respiration.

Just remember when finished, take it upwards real slow at no more than .002 per day.

Treat, feed, water change, watch ammonia, put some PVC angles as hiding places, low light is fine

[tjm9331]

I'm not 100% sure but I'm fairly certain that puffers are sensitive to copper treatment. I had a porcupine puffer at one point (lost him to ich, before I learned about TTM :sad1: )

I had read during that time that puffers were sensitive to copper treatment. I would make sure you do your research on the valentini before going forward with the cupramine

[Uncle99]

I'm not 100% sure but I'm fairly certain that puffers are sensitive to copper treatment. I had a porcupine puffer at one point (lost him to ich, before I learned about TTM :sad1: )

I had read during that time that puffers were sensitive to copper treatment. I would make sure you do your research on the valentini before going forward with the cupramine

Above is very good advice...always check before meds used

[Icewing726]

Quarantine for 72 days if you want, quarantine for 90 days like some people do if you want, or read up on the fish and see if he's more ich prone then others.

Some fish live near or in the substrate and have thicker mucus layers and can better handle ich, whereas some are only near the substrate because we put them there in our aquarium and are more prone to get ich like the blue hippo tang. I did a real fast, and I mean really fast, cursory search to see if that puffer was referred to as an ich magnet and didn't find anything so its possible hes the type that can handle the parasite. If he is, feed him well and reduce the stress. You could try vacuuming the substrate as you see the cysts leaving him in an effort to reduce the concentration of ich in the tank while he recovers.

Totally up to you, just understand that fish can build up their immunity to this parasite and have a long happy life without quarantine. Plus, that 72 number is overly cautious and worthless if you ever plan on adding anything wet in the future without quarantining (snails, anemones, anything that goes in the water that wasn't frozen first).

[Tyler438]

So, I started treating with Imagitarium parasite remedy which was suggested to me by Petco. I don't know if the treatment killed my puffer or the Ich did but after the 2nd dose, the next morning I found my starfish devouring my puffer. All the other fish seem healthy and in good spirits. I used the lower doses twice a day, every other day rather than the large dose every day, figured it would be less stressful. My question is should I continue to treat the tank or stop. I had not used a QT, up to this point because they suggested I try this 1st. I don't see any issues on the other fish.

[Rover88]

So, I started treating with Imagitarium parasite remedy which was suggested to me by Petco. I don't know if the treatment killed my puffer or the Ich did but after the 2nd dose, the next morning I found my starfish devouring my puffer. All the other fish seem healthy and in good spirits. I used the lower doses twice a day, every other day rather than the large dose every day, figured it would be less stressful. My question is should I continue to treat the tank or stop. I had not used a QT, up to this point because they suggested I try this 1st. I don't see any issues on the other fish.

Imagitarium isn't going to cure Ich. I am sorry for the loss of the fish, but all the various 'medications' that are sold as 'Ich Cures' don't work except for what was mentioned in here. Either because they literally are useless, don't target Ich at the right times, or simply aren't effective.

All the reviews I've read that say it 'worked' mentioned 'Worked great, within a few days all the ich fell off my fish, its cured!' .... That is the natural lifecycle of Ich. Surprise surprise, they'll be buying it again in a week or so to 'cure the fish again' when it comes back.



In short Tyler, even if you don't see the Ich it is in your tank. Your fish might be hardy towards it, they might be immune, or it might just be in their gills where you don't see it. Thats usually the first place Ich goes.

There is no treatment you can put inside your tank that will cure the ich without catching and removing the fish, and letting the display run Fallow. Or dosing Cupramine/copper into the display, but if you do that all the inverts and corals will die.

As I said in my first post, I really wish there was cause I'm in the process of treating it in my own display. I wouldn't trust PetCo over those in the thread that have chimed in.

[tjm9331]

That is very unfortunate news, sorry for the loss of your puffer.

I agree with Rover, I would never take advice from Petco over someone from these forums.

If you took the time to really inspect the saltwater fish at Petco I guarantee you will find at least one fish with visible ich which means all the fish have ich. If the chemicals worked so well, why don't they use it themselves to rid their system of the parasite? It would certainly help sell the fish and it would be a good testament to the product, fact is they don't use it (or maybe they do and the fish still show signs of ich) because it doesn't work. Trust us, trust the tried and true methods and I promise you'll have a successful tank with happy healthy fish.

[nereefpat]

[
Once the fish are isolated, you can try a copper based medication, tank transfer method, or hyposalinity. Those three are the /only/ way to cure a fish of Ich.

That's unfortunate. You were told at the very beginning of the tread how to treat ich.

[Uncle99]

Petco versus Reef Central?
I would have gone with the reefers, anyhow, sorry about your loss.
The good news is you now know what Ick looks like and how Not to treat it.

Once in your tank, you must leave it fishless for 72 days, to eradicate Ick @ 99.99%.
As you use less days, the chance of reoccurrence goes up, this IS the ONLY way you can get rid of it.

i assume you have at least LiVE ROCK, so I would go the 72 days, at least you can improve your bacterial population, maybe add some inverts or corals while you wait....

[zheka757]

Once in your tank, you must leave it fishless for 72 days, to eradicate Ick @ 99.99%.

I dont know if that's 99.99% true any more! didn't work for me at least.

[Tyler438]

Quick question, do I leave the anemones, starfish, shrimp, and snail in the dt during the 72 hours?

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[tjm9331]

remember it's 72 DAYS not 72 hours starting from when you get all your fish out of the tank.

But yes you can leave all your inverts and coral in the DT during this process, the ich parasite does not harm these animals.

[nereefpat]

remember it's 72 DAYS not 72 hours starting from when you get all your fish out of the tank.

But yes you can leave all your inverts and coral in the DT during this process, the ich parasite does not harm these animals.

+1

Ich can't use inverts as a host.

[Tyler438]

Would you add live rock to the QT tank or leave it bare? I am setting it up now. Had to do it on a budget but I guess it will work.

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[squeakymcmurdo]

I have a plastic cave in my quarantine. Nice place for fish to hide and feel safe and easy to disinfect later.

[Tyler438]

Another question sorry just want to make sure I'm doing it right. I only have a penguin biowheel filter for the at tank. I should remove the mesh with the carbon correct? Should I put anything g else in its place or just leave with biowheel only? I put the carbon back in by canister filter to hopefully remove the 1st stuff from petco. I have lost my angel and blenny since the puffer. Do you think it's the ich or the medicine I put in the tank. I haven't seen any signs of ich on them or the clowns who still look and act healthy. The at tank was set up today how long should I let it establish before I move the clowns over.

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[Uncle99]

If you medicated your tank this is a waste of time.

Get your fish (and only fish) out of your DT and into QT.
Nothing fancy, tank, pail, whatever, heater, sponge filter, hiding place...no live rock, we are nit cycling this tank, daily water changes and vacuuming up uneaten food will keep ammonia from building.

Treat your fish:
Pick a treatment. Cupramine can be quite successful but is hard on delicates like tangs. Hypo works great but you must keep water at 1.009 until at least 21 days after the last spot is gone. You can bring down salinity fast over two days but going back up must be real slow, .002 max per day.
Have a read of the stickys fir more details of treatment.

Treat your DT:
This is the easier part. Continue to run your DT as normal, (but without fish) everything else stays....run for 72 DAYS this way and Ick will by gone.
By this time, any fish you saved can go back. This works every time.

[Uncle99]

If you medicated your tank this is a waste of time.

Ick is killing your fish, the medication is useless, petco is the same.


Get your fish (and only fish) out of your DT and into QT.
Nothing fancy, tank, pail, whatever, heater, sponge filter, hiding place...no live rock, we are nit cycling this tank, daily water changes and vacuuming up uneaten food will keep ammonia from building.

Treat your fish:
Pick a treatment. Cupramine can be quite successful but is hard on delicates like tangs. Hypo works great but you must keep water at 1.009 until at least 21 days after the last spot is gone. You can bring down salinity fast over two days but going back up must be real slow, .002 max per day.
Have a read of the stickys fir more details of treatment.

Treat your DT:
This is the easier part. Continue to run your DT as normal, (but without fish) everything else stays....run for 72 DAYS this way and Ick will by gone.
By this time, any fish you saved can go back. This works every time.

[Tyler438]

If you medicated your tank this is a waste of time.

Get your fish (and only fish) out of your DT and into QT.
Nothing fancy, tank, pail, whatever, heater, sponge filter, hiding place...no live rock, we are nit cycling this tank, daily water changes and vacuuming up uneaten food will keep ammonia from building.

Treat your fish:
Pick a treatment. Cupramine can be quite successful but is hard on delicates like tangs. Hypo works great but you must keep water at 1.009 until at least 21 days after the last spot is gone. You can bring down salinity fast over two days but going back up must be real slow, .002 max per day.
Have a read of the stickys fir more details of treatment.

Treat your DT:
This is the easier part. Continue to run your DT as normal, (but without fish) everything else stays....run for 72 DAYS this way and Ick will by gone.
By this time, any fish you saved can go back. This works every time.How do I treat with the copper if I'm doing daily water changes?

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[Uncle99]

This requires some math.
First, find out how many drops per gallon/litre is recommended by the manufacturer
Once you know the “therapeutic” level of drops then if you take out say 2 litres and the level is 1 drop per litre, then put back 2 litres of saltwater plus 1 drop of cupramine.

Once you bring your QT to the recommended level, you need to maintain this level
Until all spots are gone + a couple more days, then you can stop adding the drops to the replacement saltwater and this will bring cupramine level down... you can also run carbon which would clean it as well.

Whatever you do, do not exceed manufactured dosage, but at the same time make sure the level is at par. Exceeding is guaranteed death.

[WGT1014]

This requires some math.
First, find out how many drops per gallon/litre is recommended by the manufacturer
Once you know the “therapeutic” level of drops then if you take out say 2 litres and the level is 1 drop per litre, then put back 2 litres of saltwater plus 1 drop of cupramine.

Once you bring your QT to the recommended level, you need to maintain this level
Until all spots are gone + a couple more days, then you can stop adding the drops to the replacement saltwater and this will bring cupramine level down... you can also run carbon which would clean it as well.

Whatever you do, do not exceed manufactured dosage, but at the same time make sure the level is at par. Exceeding is guaranteed death.

I haven't seen this mentioned yet, maybe I missed it, but wouldn't you need a copper test kit so you know you are at the recommended level? I only ask because it seems the OP has never done this and either have I. If I asked about it myself, I probably wouldn't think about a test kit and just read the bottle and go.

[Rover88]

I haven't seen this mentioned yet, maybe I missed it, but wouldn't you need a copper test kit so you know you are at the recommended level? I only ask because it seems the OP has never done this and either have I. If I asked about it myself, I probably wouldn't think about a test kit and just read the bottle and go.

I bought a copper test kit, and it is advised.

But I have a 30 gallon tank. At 'full dose' its 40 drops per 10 gallons, so 120 drops for a 30 gallon tank.

If I do a 5 gallon water change, I need to add (30/5=6, so 120/6 =20) 20 drops of medication to every 5 gallons I trade in and out.

In THEORY if none of the medication falls out of solution or is absorbed into the various things within the tank, this math will work out.

In reality I bought a test kit, just in case something odd happens. Because its not that much money for the peace of mind.

[Uncle99]

I agree with your math, copper test kit always a good idea but I had a hard time with the colour versus the card.

Once treatment starts, I would expect you to notice a big difference in spots in 4-6 days.

Feeding is important, sometimes they will either not eat or spit, don't be alarmed, just keep feeding what you can.

When Ick is in the gills/mouth it hard for them to eat, but once the medication starts to work, they will be hungry.

[Tyler438]

What if the clowns have not shown any signs of ich? I haven't seen any spots on them, should I still be treating or keep them in QT and wait for them to show signs?

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[Bill_Moorman]

What if the clowns have not shown any signs of ich? I haven't seen any spots on them, should I still be treating or keep them in QT and wait for them to show signs?

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I would pull them out of the main tank for the fallow period.

While in QT, if you see a spot, start treatment that day. If you don’t see spots, let them chill in their nice hotel room away from home!


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[WGT1014]

I bought a copper test kit, and it is advised.

But I have a 30 gallon tank. At 'full dose' its 40 drops per 10 gallons, so 120 drops for a 30 gallon tank.

If I do a 5 gallon water change, I need to add (30/5=6, so 120/6 =20) 20 drops of medication to every 5 gallons I trade in and out.

In THEORY if none of the medication falls out of solution or is absorbed into the various things within the tank, this math will work out.

In reality I bought a test kit, just in case something odd happens. Because its not that much money for the peace of mind.

Ok, thanks but the thing is, its in THEORY as you stated...assuming everything works perfectly according to the math...I personally would rather do real life testing as opposed to relying on "math", which can put you in the ballpark but unless you know all the variables, it can be iffy....just my opinion...

[Rover88]

Ok, thanks but the thing is, its in THEORY as you stated...assuming everything works perfectly according to the math...I personally would rather do real life testing as opposed to relying on "math", which can put you in the ballpark but unless you know all the variables, it can be iffy....just my opinion...

Yup, exactly. That is why I bought the test kit for it.

Although in my situation, the math has worked flawlessly, based on the test kits results.

[tjm9331]

honestly I would skip all the copper treatment and just perform tank transfer method then QT for the remainder of the fallow period.

TTM is pretty much the only guaranteed method (so long as its done right), copper works but if you don't get the math right then you'll either be low and won't kill the ich or you'll be too high and either stress the fish or worse yet kill them.

TTM is also the easiest and safest way to get rid a fish of ich imo

[Uncle99]

What if the clowns have not shown any signs of ich? I haven't seen any spots on them, should I still be treating or keep them in QT and wait for them to show signs?

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While they may be fine, we just don't know for sure, Ick could be in the mouth or gills and not show on the skin surface. If you leave them in the Ick cycle will continue to revolve and your DT would never clear until those fish either died or were pulled, then...the 72 days starts all over again.

Clowns are quite hardy, and respond well to cupramine.
Treat all fish until you see no spots, go another 7-14 days, and ensure they are eating well...then remove the copper....they will be in Qt for 72 as well as the fish usually get better in the 14-30 days range with Copper.

[Uncle99]

Sorry, may have read your post incorrectly, wasn't sure where you would put the clowns if your treating with copper in the QT.

If you have another QT available to "watch" but not treat your clowns, it's your choice whether to treat or not until they show signs.

I assume once one fish has Ick, the others may as well but some strong fish can remain imune to the parasite....

[Tyler438]

I would pull them out of the main tank for the fallow period.

While in QT, if you see a spot, start treatment that day. If you don’t see spots, let them chill in their nice hotel room away from home!


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Thanks, I have moved them to a 10gal QT tanks with a heater at 78F, HOB biowheel filter which is rated for a 60gal tank so it should be moving water pretty well, and 2 small pieces of live rock. I'll keep an eye on them and go from there. I also got them some marine flake food with garlic, which they seem to be enjoying.

[Uncle99]

It will be helpful to the members if you can share your success with us.
Keep us posted, we wish you luck and hope all,your fish are better soon

[Tyler438]

So far so good, almost 2 weeks in QT tank and clowns are doing great. No signs of ich. Any issues with not having a light on the QT tank with 2 small pieces of live rock and the 2 clowns?

[tjm9331]

Glad to hear they are doing well, are you treating them prophylactically with anything?

Having no light is perfectly fine on a QT.

[Tyler438]

Glad to hear they are doing well, are you treating them prophylactically with anything?

Having no light is perfectly fine on a QT.

No, I have not started copper treatment. I bought some and I'm prepared to do so if they start showing signs of ich. I should be in the clear after 4 weeks if they don't show any symptoms correct? Obviously, I'll leave them in QT for the required 72 days needed for the DT.

[Bill_Moorman]

Thanks, I have moved them to a 10gal QT tanks with a heater at 78F, HOB biowheel filter which is rated for a 60gal tank so it should be moving water pretty well, and 2 small pieces of live rock. I'll keep an eye on them and go from there. I also got them some marine flake food with garlic, which they seem to be enjoying.



Right on! Glad to hear they are doing okay. The water movement isn’t vital for just the fish, but you want to make sure you have surface agitation to help with O2 exchange. I’ve read a TON about crypto (the true name of marine ich) and from what I have learned garlic won’t prevent the parasites from attaching, rather, it entices the fish to eat. You want to feed them well to keep their immune system strong.

I thought I had a crypto outbreak because my clown had a white spot on her tail, but that was about a week ago (you can check my post history). I started soaking their breakfast (I rotate between flake, pellet, and frozen Mysis) in selcon and made sure they ate a ton (but not over feeding to cause a nitrate rise) and they are happy and fat haha.

I’d keep them in the QT for at least 30 days just to make sure they don’t become infected. If they do, check out the stickies about treating crypto and you’ll be in good shape.

Keep us updated!


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[Rover88]

No, I have not started copper treatment. I bought some and I'm prepared to do so if they start showing signs of ich. I should be in the clear after 4 weeks if they don't show any symptoms correct? Obviously, I'll leave them in QT for the required 72 days needed for the DT.

No, you will not be clear if they don't start showing signs.

Ich does not always show. This is for a few reasons, but the most common being its in the gills where you can't see it. I know that my clown fish never showed signs of ich even after three other fish were lost and every other fish was showing signs, they seemed fine. But they got treated too.

You should treat them in copper for the minimum 2 week period, and preferably 4 week period. This isn't prophylactic treatment, you aren't guessing that they might be sick. If they were in a tank with another fish that had ich, it is safe to assume they have ich. Do you really want to risk another 72 day fallow period by leaving the clowns with a chance of having ich, adding a new fish not as 'strong' as they are, and watching that fish succumb to the ich the clowns can handle?


To answer your questions:
They do not need a light. Many people say its better to keep it dim as its less stressful.
The small pieces of live rock are fine, just don't move them back to the main display. While cupramine is supposedly very good at staying in solution and not tainting the rock with copper, you'll want to make those rocks your 'quarantine rocks'.

[Tyler438]

No, you will not be clear if they don't start showing signs.

Ich does not always show. This is for a few reasons, but the most common being its in the gills where you can't see it. I know that my clown fish never showed signs of ich even after three other fish were lost and every other fish was showing signs, they seemed fine. But they got treated too.

You should treat them in copper for the minimum 2 week period, and preferably 4 week period. This isn't prophylactic treatment, you aren't guessing that they might be sick. If they were in a tank with another fish that had ich, it is safe to assume they have ich. Do you really want to risk another 72 day fallow period by leaving the clowns with a chance of having ich, adding a new fish not as 'strong' as they are, and watching that fish succumb to the ich the clowns can handle?


To answer your questions:
They do not need a light. Many people say its better to keep it dim as its less stressful.
The small pieces of live rock are fine, just don't move them back to the main display. While cupramine is supposedly very good at staying in solution and not tainting the rock with copper, you'll want to make those rocks your 'quarantine rocks'.

Yea that was my plan is to keep the rock in QT tank. OK, I'll start treating the clowns with Copper this weekend. Do I need to take out the carbon from the filters?

[Rover88]

Yea that was my plan is to keep the rock in QT tank. OK, I'll start treating the clowns with Copper this weekend. Do I need to take out the carbon from the filters?

Yup.

Just follow the instructions on the bottle. Although I've been told to go 'slower' then their instructions. (If they say add 40 drops on day 1, add instead 20 drops then add 20 more the next day kind of thing). This helps build it up slower and gives the fish a more gradual time to adjust.

That being said, clownfish are hardy to copper. Mine barely reacted all to the copper in the tank, while some of the other fish got rather lethargic for a few days.

[shaginwagon13]

Get a cleaner shrimp [emoji1360] it’ll handle that ich real quick. It’s a scarlet skunk cleaner shrimp. It’ll probably save ur fish life


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That doesn't solve anything lol

I had Ich and used hypo in my main system when i first added fish to my system about a year ago. I was lucky and didn't have any inverts at the time so this was a viable option for me. I honestly have never had a puffer and not sure exactly what they can tolerate so that would be something you need to look into but hypo worked amazingly for me, and very honestly wasn't as difficult to do as people made it out.

[Tyler438]

That doesn't solve anything lol

I had Ich and used hypo in my main system when i first added fish to my system about a year ago. I was lucky and didn't have any inverts at the time so this was a viable option for me. I honestly have never had a puffer and not sure exactly what they can tolerate so that would be something you need to look into but hypo worked amazingly for me, and very honestly wasn't as difficult to do as people made it out.

Well, I lost the puffer, the coral beauty, and my blenny. The only thing left is my 2 clowns that are in QT. DT has 2 anemones, lots of turbo snails, 3 hermits, and a cleaner shrimp.

[Bill_Moorman]

Sorry to hear that. People who aren’t into reefing don’t understand how attached we are to our fish. “It’s just a fish dude, but another...”

Best of luck with the treatment of the others!


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[shaginwagon13]

Well, I lost the puffer, the coral beauty, and my blenny. The only thing left is my 2 clowns that are in QT. DT has 2 anemones, lots of turbo snails, 3 hermits, and a cleaner shrimp.

Sorry to hear that.

Keep the clownfish in QT and treat with either hypo, copper or TTM for 90 days.

Your display tank is fallow of fish and if left like this for 90 days, the Ich will die as there are no hosts.

You can increase the temperature slightly in the display tank to 83 degrees. Slightly warmer water speeds up the life cycles of Ich. Colder waters around 78-77 degrees lengthens their life cycle which means there is more risk after 90 days that all the Ich will not yet be dead.

[Tyler438]

Sorry to hear that.

Keep the clownfish in QT and treat with either hypo, copper or TTM for 90 days.

Your display tank is fallow of fish and if left like this for 90 days, the Ich will die as there are no hosts.

You can increase the temperature slightly in the display tank to 83 degrees. Slightly warmer water speeds up the life cycles of Ich. Colder waters around 78-77 degrees lengthen their life cycle which means there is more risk after 90 days that all the Ich will not yet be dead.

DIsplay tank is holding at 80F, I started the copper treatment yesterday at 6 pm, Did a partial water change and tested the water before treatment. pH 8.3, Ammonia 0, nitrites 0, Nitrates 0. Feed them before the treatment and again around 10 pm when I checked on them before bed. As of this morning, they still look happy. Gave them some food and they ate just fine. I will give them a few misys shrimp tonight for dinner. One thing I noticed and I may just be crazy but their eyes look dilated, is this common?

[shaginwagon13]

DIsplay tank is holding at 80F, I started the copper treatment yesterday at 6 pm, Did a partial water change and tested the water before treatment. pH 8.3, Ammonia 0, nitrites 0, Nitrates 0. Feed them before the treatment and again around 10 pm when I checked on them before bed. As of this morning, they still look happy. Gave them some food and they ate just fine. I will give them a few misys shrimp tonight for dinner. One thing I noticed and I may just be crazy but their eyes look dilated, is this common?

I’ve honestly never used cooper treatment so I’m not entirely sure in regards to their eyes.

Did you add copper to your main display tank?

[Tyler438]

I’ve honestly never used cooper treatment so I’m not entirely sure in regards to their eyes.

Did you add copper to your main display tank?No copper in display tank, just doing the 72 day fallow period. Treating clowns with copper in the qt tank.

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[Uncle99]

Eyes can look "glassy" may look swollen or somewhat closed, yup, normal, as the fish heals, this will go right back to normal.

While you have lost some fish, I (and likely the clowns) commend you for your efforts.

if they eat well, this is second most important to copper. High protein meaty foods like your doing is perfect.

Nice work.

[Tyler438]

Eyes can look "glassy" may look swollen or somewhat closed, yup, normal, as the fish heals, this will go right back to normal.

While you have lost some fish, I (and likely the clowns) commend you for your efforts.

if they eat well, this is second most important to copper. High protein meaty foods like your doing is perfect.

Nice work.

Did the 2nd dose Saturday, so far everything looks good. They are eating well and don't seem to be missing a beat. Copper treatment will be done on the 14th and they should be good to go. August 28th they should be good to go back in the tank at 72 days, or should I wait the 90 days as some have suggested?

[Bill_Moorman]

The new timeframe is 76 days.


https://www.*********.com/threads/ich-eradication-vs-ich-management.188775/

Edit: Had to change to the web url.

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[Uncle99]

The fallow time has to do with the percentage success rate to rid the DT of Ick.
So, in 60 days, the suggestion is that the success is about 85-90%.
In 72-78 days the success rate jumps to 99% success.
Anywhere in this period, in my opinion, and mostly all hobbists agree is the "safe period". Is 90 better? Is 100 better?. Where will this end? One thing for sure, the longer the better....but how much better....studies show not much.

You may want to (or maybe you already have) search this site and see what the majority says....I trust you will find 72-78 is the time most suggest.

If the fish is strong at 72-78.....back he/they go....

Keep up the good work, your on your way home....

And keep in mind....strong, well fed fish, high protein varied diets, living in a minimal stress environment is the best defense against Ick.

It attacks the weak.

[Tyler438]

The fallow time has to do with the percentage success rate to rid the DT of Ick.
So, in 60 days, the suggestion is that the success is about 85-90%.
In 72-78 days the success rate jumps to 99% success.
Anywhere in this period, in my opinion, and mostly all hobbists agree is the "safe period". Is 90 better? Is 100 better?. Where will this end? One thing for sure, the longer the better....but how much better....studies show not much.

You may want to (or maybe you already have) search this site and see what the majority says....I trust you will find 72-78 is the time most suggest.

If the fish is strong at 72-78.....back he/they go....

Keep up the good work, your on your way home....

And keep in mind....strong, well-fed fish, high protein varied diets, living in a minimal stress environment is the best defense against Ick.

It attacks the weak.

Ok thanks, I'll go with 90 days to be safe. The fish seem healthy and happy. They never once showed signs of ich. I finish the treatment and the 90-day fallow time before they go back in. Good news is my DT is getting cleaned up by the snails and shrimp without a load on it. May need to drop in a silverside or something to keep the CUC happy.