Plumbing

[Meg rebreather]

Hi guys ... setting up new tank just finished the plumbing would like help on the location of pipe would this be ok ...
I'm using the beam overflow with 2 inlet and 1 emergency, not sure looking from the back my I take to tank would work...
Ant option please?https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181203/fb860770c78afd266f7bc1faddd3878d.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181203/5aa7eb2179ecf3680393daf2bde54f62.jpg

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

[Meg rebreather]

Hi guys ... setting up new tank just finished the plumbing would like help on the location of pipe would this be ok ...
I'm using the beam overflow with 2 inlet and 1 emergency, not sure looking from the back are the return on? please?https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181203/fb860770c78afd266f7bc1faddd3878d.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181203/5aa7eb2179ecf3680393daf2bde54f62.jpg

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk



Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

[mcgyvr]

Can you ask your questions again?
Please try paying a bit more attention to spelling, punctuation and the construction of complete sentences this time. :p

[Meg rebreather]

Sorry was in a bit of a hurry...
I need to know if my plumbing on the back for the return is ok before I glue the pipes, the return die is 32mm I have a Core 20 pump....

[jacksonpt]

I would add valves to each side of the return.

[bblumberg]

Sorry was in a bit of a hurry...
I need to know if my plumbing on the back for the return is ok before I glue the pipes, the return die is 32mm I have a Core 20 pump....

1. Put a gate valve (not a ball valve) in the line you intend to be the full siphon
2. Cut the length of the pipes entering the sump such that they will extend 1" below the planned water level. Shorter will lead to lots of splashing, longer will make it difficult for the full siphon to purge air to get started.
3. I'd put the ball valve you are taking off on the emergency overflow line. You may never need this but it is good to be able to close off all lines for maintenance if necessary.
4. Consider using larger pipe for the return line. The larger the pipe, the lower the resistance to flow. For example, if your pump has a 1" outlet, I'd use 1 1/4" pipe.

Otherwise, looks like a good plumbing job.

[shellsea]

I am by no means a plumbing expert but many on this forum are and may agree or disagree but the return line looks like it may create a problem. With the center of the T feeding one side before the split goes to the other side pressure will not be balanced, in my opinion.

[Lsufan]

I am by no means a plumbing expert but many on this forum are and may agree or disagree but the return line looks like it may create a problem. With the center of the T feeding one side before the split goes to the other side pressure will not be balanced, in my opinion.

There really isn’t a need for the 2 returns to be balanced but if that is the preference then adding a ball valve on each individual return like mentioned above will do the trick. By closing one it will create head pressure & send more flow to the other.

[Meg rebreather]

Gate valves are hard to get here in Australia that why I have the ball vales they are very easy to turn...
Should I only have the ball valve on the full sihpon?



Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

[jacksonpt]

Gate valves are hard to get here in Australia that why I have the ball vales they are very easy to turn...
Should I only have the ball valve on the full sihpon?

Yes, that is correct.

[bblumberg]

Gate valves are hard to get here in Australia that why I have the ball vales they are very easy to turn...
Should I only have the ball valve on the full sihpon?



Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

You only need a valve on the full siphon, but it does not hurt to have them on all 3 in case you need to shut off all three. 2 of my 3 Bean Animal systems have a single gate valve on the siphon whereas the newest one has valves on all 3.

[bblumberg]

ps. I see King Brothers gate valves on Amazon.com.au They cost more than in the US, but are not silly high priced like the Spears valves.

[Lsufan]

If u have valves on the open channel or emergency make sure u leave them fully open. They aren’t needed but they won’t hurt eighther. With all the 90’s u have in your drains I would leave them on both the syphon & open channel. If u have issues purging the air from the drain because of all the 90’s it gives u a option to try & switch the open channel & syphon drains around. I wouldn’t worry much about a gate valve. Ball valve will work fine in the majority of setups. While a gate valve is definitely easier to fine tune a ball valve will work fine in most setups. When it can be a issue is if u have a really small overflow box & u need to make the slightest of adjustments.

A bunch of people are using the ghost type overflow boxes now & where people make a mistake is putting a small 12” overflow on a big 5’ or 6’ tank because the box says it can handle the gph they plan on running. The smaller the overflow box the more inconsistent it will be & that is when a gate valve may be a must. It’s just one of the reasons it’s best to use as long of a overflow box as possible & don’t go by how many gph it states the box can handle.

[Meg rebreather]

This is all very helpful guys (keep it coming)I will be installing another valve on the emergency pipe ...
Still not sure whether I should chance the outlet return pipe to a bigger pipe @ present it is 32mm :(....

[bblumberg]

This is all very helpful guys (keep it coming)I will be installing another valve on the emergency pipe ...
Still not sure whether I should chance the outlet return pipe to a bigger pipe @ present it is 32mm :(....

32mm for a return line sound like a good size. What is the GPH of the pump?

[Meg rebreather]

32mm for a return line sound like a good size. What is the GPH of the pump?I have a Core 20 think it's 1700 GPH,
I have changed the return from 32mm to 40mm they are inside sump tank now pics still to come!

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

[bblumberg]

Quite big enough, I think. I only mentioned the size because it seemed much smaller compared to the drain sizes. You should have plenty of flow both into and out of the tank.

[Meg rebreather]

I have changed my mind gone back to 25mm for return I have 2 pipes going back out to the top like in the pics...

http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k208/Teckdiver/2.jpg (http://s89.photobucket.com/user/Teckdiver/media/2.jpg.html)

https://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k208/Teckdiver/thumbnail1_1.jpg (https://s89.photobucket.com/user/Teckdiver/media/thumbnail1_1.jpg.html)

[jacksonpt]

I still recommend valves on each of the returns.

[Meg rebreather]

I still recommend valves on each of the returns.

where to the return side or in the sump?

[Meg rebreather]

1. Put a gate valve (not a ball valve) in the line you intend to be the full siphon
2. Cut the length of the pipes entering the sump such that they will extend 1" below the planned water level. Shorter will lead to lots of splashing, longer will make it difficult for the full siphon to purge air to get started.
3. I'd put the ball valve you are taking off on the emergency overflow line. You may never need this but it is good to be able to close off all lines for maintenance if necessary.
4. Consider using larger pipe for the return line. The larger the pipe, the lower the resistance to flow. For example, if your pump has a 1" outlet, I'd use 1 1/4" pipe.

Otherwise, looks like a good plumbing job.


Hi again you mentioned cutting the pipes which pipes are you referring to I have 3 , also is the emergency pipe ok where I have it?

[bblumberg]

What I meant was that the pipes entering the sump (full siphon and open channel) should not extend more than 1" below the normal water level of the sump. If more than this, it will be difficult, if not impossible for the pipes to purge air and establish the siphon. Similarly, the emergency should not extend much, if any below the water level of the chamber it is in. You want it to be noisy to alert you that something is wrong. Mine is in the same chamber as the other 2 pipes, but I don't think this is essential since this line should only carry water in rare instances.

[Meg rebreather]

What I meant was that the pipes entering the sump (full siphon and open channel) should not extend more than 1" below the normal water level of the sump. If more than this, it will be difficult, if not impossible for the pipes to purge air and establish the siphon. Similarly, the emergency should not extend much, if any below the water level of the chamber it is in. You want it to be noisy to alert you that something is wrong. Mine is in the same chamber as the other 2 pipes, but I don't think this is essential since this line should only carry water in rare instances.



https://photos.google.com/search/_tra_/photo/AF1QipOKL3FfVpCUnNhvM5Leb7TScBzsmChcAsG-LKUI

How does this look ...
Core pump only @20% like to get more flow in the tank but if I crank the core pump up I'm worried the sump return will flood...

[bblumberg]

https://photos.google.com/search/_tra_/photo/AF1QipOKL3FfVpCUnNhvM5Leb7TScBzsmChcAsG-LKUI

How does this look ...
Core pump only @20% like to get more flow in the tank but if I crank the core pump up I'm worried the sump return will flood...

I can't see the photo for some reason. Your 1" full siphon should be able to handle 2000 gph+ based on information from BeanAnimal's web site.
http://www.beananimal.com/articles/hydraulics-for-the-aquarist.aspx
I am assuming here 1" pipe, full siphon, 4' drop from the overflow level to the water level in the sump.


Your pump, running at 100% and assuming 5' of head from the bottom of the sump to the inlet should move around 1500 gph
https://www.bulkreefsupply.com/cor-20-intelligent-return-pump-neptune-systems.html

Adjust these assumptions to match your tank, but they should be close. Therefore, unless the intended water level in your sump is quite high, I don't see how you will easily overflow the return or the sump with this configuration.

I'd open the gate valve on the full siphon fully and crank up your return pump, paying careful attention to the water level in both the overflow and the sump. Obviously, if it looks like you will flood the overflow, back off the flow or shut it down. Set the return pump power such that you have as much flow running back into the tank as you want, then adjust the gate valve on the full siphon so that you get some water coming through the open channel. I like my water level to be about half way up the elbow of the open channel. Neither of my pumps can keep up with the capacity of the full siphon when the gate valve is all the way open.

I set return pipe entry into the tank height so that when the power is off, the maximum amount of water to be returned to the sump still leaves some gallons of extra capacity. For me, this is a safer approach than relying on a valve to prevent backflow down the return to the sump when power is off...

Having said all that, I would not use the return pump to produce the desired flow in the tank. That is what powerheads are for. You should plan to run 5-10x the tank volume through the sump per hour.

[Meg rebreather]

Hi Bruce..
I have the valve fully open on both pipes going into the sump but yet pump is only running 20%...also looking to put a manifold for my chiller where would you suggest to fit ....

[bblumberg]

Hi Bruce..
I have the valve fully open on both pipes going into the sump but yet pump is only running 20%...also looking to put a manifold for my chiller where would you suggest to fit ....

What happens if you increase pump power? Where is water level on open channel?

I have manifold tee'd off the return pump but many would suggest that a manifold have a separate pump.

[Meg rebreather]

If I increase the pump any more than 25% sump will slowly overflow in the chamber return section :(

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

[bblumberg]

Oh, duh. Now I see the problem. You have the water running into a chamber that only has a single narrow slit at the bottom to pass to the next chamber. This is your flow limitation; the slot can only handle the flow that you are giving it. Any more and it can only go over the top which will flood.

Not only should that slot be larger, the top of that chamber should be lower than the top of the sump to prevent accidental overflows. Will the next chamber have the skimmer or some sort of mechanical filtration?

[Meg rebreather]

So you finely got the vid...
Not sure what you mean when you say slot , are you referring to the cut I made after the song section?
Yes the 3rd chamber will house my skimmer and reactor...

[Meg rebreather]

So you finely got the vid...
Not sure what you mean when you say slot , are you referring to the cut I made after the song section?
Yes the 3rd chamber will house my skimmer and reactor...

If you had to what would you chance in the sump Bruce?

[bblumberg]

I saw the video but am not 100% certain how water gets from the chamber it spills over into to the nest one on the right. In the photograph, it appears to come through the slot at the bottom. Does the flow come as in the attached photo? If so, the slot needs to be bigger and the top of the divider to the right of the inflow pipes needs to be below the top of the sump. At least in my opinion.

[bblumberg]

I personally don't like the small chamber for the inflow that spills over and makes a lot of splashing. My Lifereef sump has this and I put a bunch of foam in there to stop the splashing. The 2 sumps in my 150g tanks have narrow sections where the water runs in that spill over to a filter sock section that exits from the bottom to the next section. See attached pix. The FW sump is the one without the skimmer.

In your case, I'd remove the baffle that separates the 2 pipes from the rest of that chamber. That would leave you with a narrow section where water rushes into the tank, but which does not make a big splashing noise as you currently have. Shorten those pipes to be about 1" below the water level in that chamber. The next section to the right should have at least 1" of space at the bottom and 1-2" at the top so that you get no possible flooding with increased flow. The flow should be over the top from the inflow section and out the bottom of the next section. It appears to be that way now, but I think that the slot you have is too narrow for good flow. Make sense?

[Meg rebreather]

I saw the video but am not 100% certain how water gets from the chamber it spills over into to the nest one on the right. In the photograph, it appears to come through the slot at the bottom. Does the flow come as in the attached photo? If so, the slot needs to be bigger and the top of the divider to the right of the inflow pipes needs to be below the top of the sump. At least in my opinion.

Pretty much like in the pic but I have cut the return pipes down like in the vid.
" right of the inflow pipes needs to be below the top of the sump. At least in my opinion"
Sorry Im lost:(

Do you have FB?

[bblumberg]

Does this make what I am saying clearer? Perhaps you have a different view of the left part of the sump so that I can understand how the water gets from left to right...

[Meg rebreather]

Does this make what I am saying clearer? Perhaps you have a different view of the left part of the sump so that I can understand how the water gets from left to right...

Yes makes perfect sense .I sent you a pm.