How My Reef Hobby Almost Killed Two Kids...

[Constantine]

I have a 55 Gallon tank. (upgrading to a 75 Gallon tank when the stand paint cures)

In my last house the tank was on the ground floor on a slab. My new house has a basement, so the main floor isn't sitting on concrete anymore. When we moved into the house, we wanted to re-carpet the living room, so I put my tank against the dining room wall on a wood floor. We always had the intention of moving it into the living room.

New Years Eve I had my sister's family over. We had finished dinner and the young kids were running around like young kids. Sitting at the end of the table I hear two crazy kids screaming and bouncing. As I look up I see the tank waving back and forth with the water sloshing about at the top. The top of the tank was swaying maybe 2-3" as the kids hit a perfect synchronized bounce. By the way, this was my 2-1/2 year old son and almost 4 year old cousin. I immediately start yelling for them to stop jumping. After a couple "STOP IT! STOP IT!", the three other adults standing only a few feet from the tank realize what is going on and chime in. I continue, and then yell louder than I've ever yelled in my life. And finally (the whole thing was like 3-5 seconds), an adult grabs them and they stop.

I was scared. Really scared. I don't remember clearly, but there were probably the two little 1 year olds right in front of the tank too.

The tank has been there for a year. My 2-1/2 runs around the table all the time and I've seen that the water surface is disturbed by it. My wife use to chase him around, but I asked her not to run past the tank anymore because it visibly moves. (I think she felt insulted by this, but she is the thinnest woman ever) She took my word for it, but now she really understands.

Anyway, I can't move it into a 75 fast enough. I think the skinny base on that 55 is dangerous.

I haven't seen my niece again yet, but I think she might be afraid of me at this point. I'm just thankful that no one got hurt.

Safe Reefing to all!

[leetch]

That is scary. Glad nobody got hurt.

[ryeguyy84]

Sound like you could use a post underneath that tank. I put 2 under mine in the basement and the floor around it feels like a slab. It's cheap insurance for this type of situation.

I think mine were called tiger Jack's. I got them at home Depot for less than $50 each and some scrap 2x6s to even out the pressure on the ceiling. I have it between 2 or 3 floor joists.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

[Wonton Soup]

Yeah, the 55's length isn't as much the issue as it is your floor. A 75 will only exacerbate your problem. It may provide a larger foot print but it will add additional weight to the floor and still rock 2"-3" with kids running around. The tank isn't rocking on the stand. The stand isn't rocking on the floor. The floor is bowing under all the added weight of synchronously bouncing children.

If you can't put jacks underneath to stiffen it up then you should at least try to make sure the tank spans multiple floor joists, perpendicular to the joists, and is against a foundation wall.

[Kevin Guthrie]

Is the tank positioned lengthwise parallel to the floor joists and mid-span?

[Cat_5]

It sounds like the floor is either not built to code or the floor supports have issues. I have had a 55 gallon and 100 gallon in a house over a crawlspace and neither ever budged. The last few basements I was in had lally columns to support some of the floor joists.

[mcgyvr]

I too am suspicious of the construction of the house...while a 55g is narrow front to back that whole thing seems "fishy" to me...

Glad everyone is ok..

[ryeguyy84]

I'll add my tank sits on 2 floor joists (beams run the length of the tank), it's a 90g so I didn't want to risk it. If you're upgrading to a larger tank you'll want to look at the floor. If you jump up and down and things move that much seriously don't risk it.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

[Constantine]

Thanks for the comments everyone. I need to look into some of this pretty seriously. The house is not cheap construction or cookie cutter house. But, there is obviously an issue.

I'm hopeful it's just positioning. It is on an exterior wall, and it is running parallel with the floor joists. With how narrow the tank is, it is probably not even sitting on a support beam. It is also probably exactly mid span in that section of the house. When I was moving, I didn’t give any thought to the location, knowing it was temporary and not imagining any issues. The new location is in a corner next to an exterior wall and interior support wall. It should cross over 2-3 supports perpendicular to them.

I have a finished basement, so I won’t be able to build additional supports underneath the tank.

There is one unfinished part of the basement, and while the tank can’t go above that area, I’ll take a closer look at the construction. I guess I’ll setup the new 75 as planned and before I transfer anything, I’ll jump next to it while full of water. If it wobbles, I guess I’m out of the hobby…

[mcgyvr]

Even more suspicious now that you said it was against an exterior wall...
Problem with the stand maybe...

[Constantine]

Even more suspicious now that you said it was against an exterior wall...
Problem with the stand maybe...

The stand is an all wood typical stand from petco or petsmart. The previous stand I had went slightly wider. The wood went just on the outside of the tank, and this one is actually not any wider than the tank at all. It is the narrowest stand I've seen. However, it wasn't an issue when sitting on carpeted slab floor previously.

(sorry if that's confusing. I had two 55's setup in the last house, each with a wood stand. I emptied my freshwater and set it up ready to receive the saltwater at the new house. So' I used two different stands, but this one the vertical sides of the stand are actually within the exterior tank dimensions.)

Maybe a combination of issues. If I get a wider stand, place it against two load bearing walls, and across joists instead of parallel, maybe that will work.

[ryeguyy84]

If your basement is finished like mine I'm going to build a closet where the posts are. It's in the perfect place for it so I just need to get around to doing it. Extra storage and support, win win

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

[squeakymcmurdo]

I also suspect the floor. I had a 60 gallon in my kitchen that has the same footprint as a 55 but is taller. In theory it would be far more likely to tip than yours. It sat spanning floor joists and despite my hoard of kids running around and some of them even trying to climb up to see better, it didn’t move. I don’t encourage this btw. The stand for it isn’t even very nice, just what came free with that tank.

[d2mini]

No bueno!!! I would not have a tank on that floor. Yikes.

[Stevolough]

I would definitely have the floor inspected. When my kids were small I put a wood block behind the stand at the top so tank couldn’t be pushed towards the wall. And I used wire and eye loops so it couldn’t be pulled away. I had a 75 on carpet and I saw how easy it was to get it moving

[brian3]

Code calls for less than 50 lb/square foot live load on a residential house typically. These aquariums often exceed 100 lb / sq ft well in excess of codes. A 55 alone is probably 800 lb + or 200 lb/sq ft, 4 times a typical floor rating. Many are pushing limits even with houses that are perfectly up to code. I have mine on top of a 12" i-beam below so it will not be budging.


It sounds like the floor is either not built to code or the floor supports have issues. I have had a 55 gallon and 100 gallon in a house over a crawlspace and neither ever budged. The last few basements I was in had lally columns to support some of the floor joists.

[FullBoreReefer]

Add support. My 220 sits perpendicular to the floor joist(best scenario), and the front of the tank sits on our houses main “beam”, 3 - 2x12’s. I then added 3-2x6’s to span near the back of the tank. I also added a few support posts to both beams. Can’t be to cautious!

[marzvt]

Hard to blame the hobby for that. I think the learned lesson to make everything robust holds though. I always view the lives of everything I put in the tank are in my hands and I take no ones word for it when it comes to something being right.

[ca1ore]

The running around just gets worse as boys grow. My tank sits on jack posts on the two ‘vulnerable’ corners. Not even a mm of deflection.

[sde1500]

It is on an exterior wall, and it is running parallel with the floor joists. With how narrow the tank is, it is probably not even sitting on a support beam.

However, it wasn't an issue when sitting on carpeted slab floor previously.

I think this is key. You have a rather heavy load not being supported by anything. Positioning a tank of any decent size should be perpendicular to the floor joists, allowing it to have multiple points of support. Hence why when it was on a slab, fully supported, it didn't have a problem.

Even if you have a finished basement, you can find a way to support it from underneath without it being too much of a problem in my opinion. Get creative, its a bit of a cop out to say you can't.

[travis32]

I agree with sde1500. The floor support is not an issue to get out of the hobby. Unless, of course, you want out, then use it as an excuse all you want!

I had a 220 gallon piano shaped aquarium (all Glass) with solid wood stand, The stand was almost as heavy as the glass. It was custom and sitting on the second floor of a split level home. I had a construction crew reenforce the hell out of the spot the tank would go. They charged me $200 to add additional cross beams, braces, and support to the spot. No vibrations or anything were felt on that floor and nothing disturbed the tank. At the time my step son was 6 and would throw tantrums, running around and would even bang on the tank with his fists. (that was not acceptable and stopped quickly) but, that said, it didn't budge and nothing budged it!

You may have some ceiling repair / drywall to do after the floor is reenforced. But, there's no price on home safety! If you're upgrading to a larger tank, and filling it with hundreds, if not thousands of dollars of live stock, you can spend $200-$500 to have the floor re enforced by experts. Even if they don't do vertical beams, just running additional 2x4s or adding perpendicular cross braces, can add support to all of it. There's a lot of options. I would value my family's security as well as the livestock's well being by making sure the floor is reenforced.

I have my 340 gallon tank now on a concrete floor. It's not going anywhere, but I've had a few people tell me there's a chance that part of the house could sink more. Because the weight of a 340 gallon system is easily over a ton, closer to 1.5 - 2 tons with the weight of the steel stand and tank. I hope the footings and concrete floors of are all thick enough to support that. However, our soils are very wet in my area, so in the spring, almost anything sinks when the water thaws. It's like having a tractor sitting in a 6foot by 3 foot spot. Fairly compressed and all in one area. So, Here's to strong floors!
:)

[Constantine]

Even if you have a finished basement, you can find a way to support it from underneath without it being too much of a problem in my opinion. Get creative, its a bit of a cop out to say you can't.

The comments were talking about vertical support beams. I'm not sure why it's a cop out to say I don't want to destroy my homes value by putting random beams in a room on the lower level, or putting a second and out of place closet in that room.

[Constantine]

I agree with sde1500. The floor support is not an issue to get out of the hobby. Unless, of course, you want out, then use it as an excuse all you want!

I had a 220 gallon piano shaped aquarium (all Glass) with solid wood stand, The stand was almost as heavy as the glass. It was custom and sitting on the second floor of a split level home. I had a construction crew reenforce the hell out of the spot the tank would go. They charged me $200 to add additional cross beams, braces, and support to the spot. No vibrations or anything were felt on that floor and nothing disturbed the tank. At the time my step son was 6 and would throw tantrums, running around and would even bang on the tank with his fists. (that was not acceptable and stopped quickly) but, that said, it didn't budge and nothing budged it!

You may have some ceiling repair / drywall to do after the floor is reenforced. But, there's no price on home safety! If you're upgrading to a larger tank, and filling it with hundreds, if not thousands of dollars of live stock, you can spend $200-$500 to have the floor re enforced by experts. Even if they don't do vertical beams, just running additional 2x4s or adding perpendicular cross braces, can add support to all of it. There's a lot of options. I would value my family's security as well as the livestock's well being by making sure the floor is reenforced.

I have my 340 gallon tank now on a concrete floor. It's not going anywhere, but I've had a few people tell me there's a chance that part of the house could sink more. Because the weight of a 340 gallon system is easily over a ton, closer to 1.5 - 2 tons with the weight of the steel stand and tank. I hope the footings and concrete floors of are all thick enough to support that. However, our soils are very wet in my area, so in the spring, almost anything sinks when the water thaws. It's like having a tractor sitting in a 6foot by 3 foot spot. Fairly compressed and all in one area. So, Here's to strong floors!
:)

You're comment on cross braces makes sense. When talking about vertical support beams, that definitely wouldn't work out in my home situation. But I did find this amazing write up on support of aquariums. http://www.african-cichlid.com/Structure.htm After reading up on it, and the comments on here, I think I just have an extremely poorly placed tank. And the place I intend to put the new one seems to be about as ideal as possible, aside from concrete slab.

[FSJGUY]

Hate to break it to you but two little kids jumping up and down shouldnt cause a 55g tank to do that... Even if the tank was running length wise on joists..

I suggest you get your subfloor and joists looked at... I have a 135 gallon tank on a steel atand with 4 legs which is the worst thing you can do. And its siyting in line with the joists so its sitting on 2 joists length wise... And its only 3rd level.

I weigh 300 lbs if i jump up and down in front of the tank it just wiggles a little bit nothing major.

So think about it for a second.. 55 gallons vs 135 gallons on a stand with 4 stilts for legs.. Something isnt right with your floor

[Constantine]

Hate to break it to you but two little kids jumping up and down shouldnt cause a 55g tank to do that... Even if the tank was running length wise on joists..

I suggest you get your subfloor and joists looked at... I have a 135 gallon tank on a steel atand with 4 legs which is the worst thing you can do. And its siyting in line with the joists so its sitting on 2 joists length wise... And its only 3rd level.

I weigh 300 lbs if i jump up and down in front of the tank it just wiggles a little bit nothing major.

So think about it for a second.. 55 gallons vs 135 gallons on a stand with 4 stilts for legs.. Something isnt right with your floor

Thanks for the concern. Definitely proceeding with caution. As I said in the OP, very scary and of course worried for the lives of children. A risk like that is not something to play around with.

I might disagree with the comparison though. I think a 55g with narrow base is much more likely to wobble when a 300 pound man jumps in front of it, than a 135g with wider base. That still doesn't matter. Aquariums shouldn't wobble.

[FSJGUY]

Thanks for the concern. Definitely proceeding with caution. As I said in the OP, very scary and of course worried for the lives of children. A risk like that is not something to play around with.

I might disagree with the comparison though. I think a 55g with narrow base is much more likely to wobble when a 300 pound man jumps in front of it, than a 135g with wider base. That still doesn't matter. Aquariums shouldn't wobble.



8 hear you on being wider 18 inches vs 13 like a 55.. But is your stand on legs or is it a wooden atand with even support on the entire base ? Was it on carpet or no i forgot if you mentioned that.

The point i made was my 135 is on a steel stand with only 4 legs so it isnt being supported on the floor on the entire base.. The legs are L shaped so stilts basically.. I had to weld steel plates on the L legs to add a little support and put a little pressure treated wood laying flat under rhat to help it from wobbling. A legged stand for a larged tank on carpet laying on the joists leg wise is one of the worst things you can do is what im saying.

ive had a 55g in the past joist length wise an it never moved even a little. I also have a 92g bowfront and a 30g t and 69g hexagon trust me i know lol.

Im just saying your floor seems very weak if it cant handle that. Someone mentioned floors support 59lbs per square inch what not.. With a tank using a wooden stand with support on the entire outer base even 1000lbs will be much much less then 50 lbs per square inch. A 135g on a wooden base will be less than 50 as well.. But a steel stand with L shaped legs on 2 inches long with a near 2000lbs stand.tank. thats 500 lbs on each leg on each point.. Make sense ?


It doesnt hurt to pull up the carpet and look at the subfloor at least. Or get a mini camera from walmart or harbor freight and look in the drywall at the joists..

[Constantine]

There is a section of basement ceiling exposed in the utility area. I should be able to assume it's the same for the rest of the house, although it's not a guarantee. I have 2x10 joists positioned 16" centers. The new tank will go up against a support wall with joists spanning 13'. The tank should cross over 3 of the joists. This should totally be more than sufficient for an 800 lb tank. However, if I experience the same issues, I'll know there is something substandard going on with the house.

[Constantine]

UPDATE-

I transferred everything successfully from my 55 wobble tank and into my 75. I can jump next to it and there is no shaking or wobbling. It is in a corner, and sits across 3 joists. The span is shorter for these joists, and it's right next to a support wall.

Thanks for all the comments.

[moondoggy4]

Quickest way to get kids attention is yell Who wants ice cream!

[brian3]

Houses are typically designed for a live load around 50 lb/sq ft per code so most tanks exceed that by a large margin. Having it against a wall that is supported below is key and it sounds like that is what you have now.


There is a section of basement ceiling exposed in the utility area. I should be able to assume it's the same for the rest of the house, although it's not a guarantee. I have 2x10 joists positioned 16" centers. The new tank will go up against a support wall with joists spanning 13'. The tank should cross over 3 of the joists. This should totally be more than sufficient for an 800 lb tank. However, if I experience the same issues, I'll know there is something substandard going on with the house.