How long of a tank is too long for water flow?

[lgtentacle]

Getting back into the hobby after many years away. I want to get a fairly large tank and was planning on using vortech mp60's for the main source of water movement. My question is how long of a tank is too long for mp60's on each side to provide adequate water movement? I'm considering getting an 8 to 12 foot long tank and I want to avoid dead current zones in the middle of the tank. Any advice or recommendations for tank length?

For additional info, if it helps, I was planning on having the tank be 30 inches tall and either 36 or 48 inches wide. The current game plan was to have a mixed reef tank. For overflows, I was planning on going with one on each side in the middle of the side (so that I can put the vortech's on either side of the overflows).

[ryeguyy84]

Well I'll start by saying I have no experience with that long of a tank but would you be open to putting an mp40 on the back glass in the center? That would make some nice random current where the 40s meet the 60s

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[lapin]

I have mp60's in a 5 foot tank. They have no issue with pushing water across the tank. The main issue is, if too close to the sand, they will move your sand across the tank. Plus I run them with the foam screen guards. They restrict the flow a bit.

[Green Chromis]

Getting back into the hobby after many years away. I want to get a fairly large tank and was planning on using vortech mp60's for the main source of water movement. My question is how long of a tank is too long for mp60's on each side to provide adequate water movement? I'm considering getting an 8 to 12 foot long tank and I want to avoid dead current zones in the middle of the tank. Any advice or recommendations for tank length?

For additional info, if it helps, I was planning on having the tank be 30 inches tall and either 36 or 48 inches wide. The current game plan was to have a mixed reef tank. For overflows, I was planning on going with one on each side in the middle of the side (so that I can put the vortech's on either side of the overflows).

:fish1: Hi, if you end up going 12' long, try to go with the 48" front to back measurement, and the MP 60's will move some water to the ends of a 12' tank. If I were you, I would incorporate a closed loop system in a tank that long, with multiple MP 40's or 60's along the back wall, and ends at different heights. This along with a good return pump should give you all the different flow options you should need. You could also use Sea Swirls on your return lines, and maybe on some of your closed loop system, for a better flow pattern. :fish1:

[lgtentacle]

Since I was planning on having this tank be a peninsula style tank, I was trying to avoid having pumps on the front of back side of the tank if possible. Sounds like a 12' tank probably wouldn't work for the look that I am trying to achieve.

Thanks for the info!

[biecacka]

Mp60’s will work in that tank. I’m sure it will just be a gentle flow at that end.

Like stated though, by not a closed loop? No pumps needed in he tank at all.


Corey

[ReefWreak]

I have mp60's in a 5 foot tank. They have no issue with pushing water across the tank. The main issue is, if too close to the sand, they will move your sand across the tank. Plus I run them with the foam screen guards. They restrict the flow a bit.

Whew, MP60s on a 5' tank. Mine is 5' and I'm using MP40s dialed down to <50%

Nobody has mentioned this, but I wonder if Gyre pumps can get a circulation going in a tank that long. That would be a real sweet spot in efficiency and simplicity if you could do 2xGyres on the 48" wall, and have it turn over the entire 8' of length.

[gargoylenest]

im pretty sure a pair of xf350 can get you the movement you want

[lgtentacle]

Can you explain what you mean by a closed loop system? My intent is to make the tank viewable on both of the long sides without any clutter from attached pumps on those sides, so I only want the circulation pumps/returns on the ends if possible. If that means I can only have a tank that is 8 feet long, I'm ok with that, but I was seeing if I got bigger with pumps that are controllable. I've heard about the gyre pumps, but I haven't seen them in action. Do they work well below the water line or only near the surface?

[gargoylenest]

they work great below the water, if they are too near the surface they tend to suck in air which make them noisy. They are good for moving a body of water across the aquarium, bang on the opposite wall, then back to receiver ( a bit like a conveyor belt). You can set them up horizontal or vertical depending on your landscape.
A closed loop system means that you would have to drill multiple holes in the bottom of your tank and a circulation pump will suck in water from one hole and push it out another hole. It efficient for creating flow in all space across all hard to reach crevices and can be easily hidden to almost invisible.

[nikon187]

standard glass sheets are 130" long on average or 10' 10" a 12 foot will likely be a custom sheet. I have 2 120 x 48 x 24 tanks in the shop as our coral tanks. 600g, peninsula and use a closed loop and return pumps for flow, 0 powerheads in tank.

[lgtentacle]

I'm having a difficult time envisioning the closed loop systems. Wouldn't the flow always be in the same direction because of the drains? Seems like that would negatively affect the polyp generation on SPS corals so that they only grow on one side.

Nikon187, could you show some pictures of your tank to see how it looks?

[lionfish300]

I'm having a difficult time envisioning the closed loop systems. Wouldn't the flow always be in the same direction because of the drains? Seems like that would negatively affect the polyp generation on SPS corals so that they only grow on one side.

Nikon187, could you show some pictures of your tank to see how it looks?beside a pump to pull and shoot out water you will need a Ocean Motion this will close and open the jets of differences times. When I have my closed loop I had the version 3 there are 4 jets 1 and 3 would open 2 and 4 be close and vice versa. This way water not constantly shoot out in same spot all the time

[herostar]

There was a thread on here a while back where someone made a 12' open-top peninsula tank. If I remember right he plumbed in a closed-loop system and buried the tubing under the sandbed so he didn't need to drill the tank or install powerheads along the length of it. He made some custom "rocks" to hide the outlets. Good luck!

[gcarroll]

So I’m looking at the smallest (450g) and largest (900g) sizes possible with the parameter of measurements you suggested. MP60s can work. Question is how many? How much flow you are looking for depends on what you are trying to keep. If you are shooting for 100x turnover like the WWC display tanks that’s an awful lot of MP60s.

In a 900g you would need 14 pumps to get you there. 7 pumps if you shoot for 50x. 4 pumps if you are going for 30x and. 2 pumps gets you 15x.

Going with a large tank is not an excuse to compromise. It’s gonna take a lot of equipment

[tkeracer619]

Here is Steve Hurlock's tank, unfortunately he passed away years ago. The tank had 8 mp40 pumps on the back. 4 on each side and they created a gyre flow through the tank. Ecotech actually wrote him a custom program because back then the pumps couldn't run long enough each way. This is basically the exact setup you are talking about. In the end, after the tank had matured, it wasn't enough. He had put power heads here and there to increase the flow. I am sure mp60qd pumps would have made a difference but if you are trying to put them all on one end of the peninsula it will take creative aquascaping and a LOT of pumps creating a gyre style flow. You want to get the entire body of water moving.

This was before mp60 pumps existed.

Trully an amazing reef by an amazing reefer. I feel fortunate to have known him.
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[lgtentacle]

Based on all of the feedback, I'll probably go with the 8 ft tank and try to make it work with MP60's on both ends. I'll have to see what the water movement is like with 2 on each end and if that isn't enough then add more. I'm guessing that I will probably have to go with 8 of them though.

[pfan151]

Look into the new gyres. They push a ton of water. Much better bang for the buck than mp60s as well. But definitely look into closed loops coming from the bottom of the tank. You can set them up to alternate so the flow isn’t constantly from the same direction. You could always put most of the sps on the side closer to the pumps and then more LPS on the far side.
If you’re going big, you might as well go 10ft. You’ll probably end up being disappointed if you only go 8ft.

[tom obrecht]

I don’t know if I would give up on the 10’ tank. I just ordered a display (120” x 33” x22””H) and plan to start with 2 MPQD 60s ...one on each end...a 2 MPQD 40’s on the back glass spaced apart. I think with a bit of planning good results can be had. Open rock work will be a must but with so many options of rock I don’t think that is as hard as it was years ago. I stopped by WOrld Wide Corals a few months back and looked at their 900 display. If memory serves it is 15’ long. (Perhaps 12’) but regardless is powered by larger Panta Rhei powerheads. It can and has been done so if you have a desire to go 10-12’ I wouldn’t dismiss it. Just be aware though the cost of larger powerheads should be included in your decision process. I have been a Tunze man for years and take a look at their large powerhead options. 6205 or equivalent or mp60’s, large gyres ect. A lot of options that I feel could be implemented successfully.

[tkeracer619]

The key in a tank that size is to get the whole body of water moving in one direction. Aquascaping is very important. You want to create a channel that will allow movement. When reversing direction the tank becomes very turbulent and hits some dead spots. You may also find a combination of wave creation and gyre flow gets you where you want.

One thing to consider is when adding all these pumps to get flow you are also adding eye sores. Vortechs excel here because their internal profile is minimal and easily blends into a back wall.

[tom obrecht]

Here you go!
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2692842