Dabbling in getting reading a second attempt

[Mikegray]

I had a 125g reef. Hmm let's see maybe 10 years ago with metal halided. Custom sump euro reef skimmer. It was a nice set expensive. But I still struggled with the algea free tank even with rodi unit. But enough of that.

Now that I have my own house I still watch YouTube and read forums on tanks. Because when they are developed and clean they look amazing. I'm hesitant because of the brand new hardwood flooring throughout my house. I dont want those to get messed up so I'm second guessing a sump or leaking anything.

I have my eyes on the waterbox 100.3 +plus that comes with lighting. Vectra s1 or m2 return. 2 mp10s for flow within display. I really really really hate the idea of having the nice glass and the powerheads on the sides and kind of ruining the sleek look of these tanks. So I'd love to put them on the back facing forward. But not sure if that's appropriate. Skimmer choice I have no idea. I know waterbox used the quantum on their 100.3. Not sure if that's a great idea by all you reefers. Also I'm wondering if the no fudge sump is totally a bad idea and I should scrap my idea all together. This is not something I'm looking to buy tomorrow as I need the built in white bookshelving and stuff done first. I guess I'm posting for ideas or opinions or maybe even confidence to pull the trigger haha.

Anyways to everyone on here. Thanks for the great reading and photos of motivation of some pretty awesome displays that look just when I go to the Monterey bay aquarium.

[mcgyvr]

Yes you can put powerheads on the back of a tank.. but realize that a lot of the directed flow will just hit the front pane of glass and be attenuated..
The sides (lengthwise) is better as the flow travels further before being potentially redirected.. Its really all about the flows ability to keep detritus,etc... in suspension, reducing dead spots and providing sufficient flow over the surfaces of corals to keep algae off them,etc...

Nyos(Quantum) skimmers are good from what I've heard.. But nearly all other skimmers sized for the tank will do the same/similar job.. None are really leaps/bounds better than another..

And yes.. Not putting "fudge" in your sump is a good idea ;)

[Mikegray]

ahah Fudge. my fault. ok so all skimmers will do the job.... the MP. on the sides out in the open with the chords are going to kill me Visually.. darn it. im not liking that idea. especially with a rimless clean look!

not fudge. lol but fuge.. is it ok it doesnt have a fuge or should i change my mind on the 100.3

[mcgyvr]

A fuge is not required to have a successful tank/experience..
Its optional..(and so is a skimmer and sump btw)

[homer1475]

A fuge is not required to have a successful tank/experience..
Its optional..(and so is a skimmer and sump btw)


+1
While certainly not "NEEDED" they do make things a bit easier.

[ReefWreak]

The Nyos skimmers are (unnecessarily) pricey. Click homer1475's name above, view recent posts, and find the ones where he has discussed his new bubble magus curve 5 or something like that skimmer. He was having that exact same choice, he really wanted a nyos, but it seemed not worth it. I have a nyos and it's great, but it was pricey, and I wanted to buy the best, buy once, and be done. And I did. It sounds like he's equally happy with the Bubble Magus Curve 5, and many other people are as well, for a lower price point.

The vectra has always also seemed in that category of unnecessarily pricey, especially considering the price difference of controllable DC return pumps. My Red Sea Reefer 450 has a Jecod pump, and it's done very well, and is perfectly silent.

For powerheads, you may want to check out the new Gyre pumps that are just starting to ship (I think the 3XX series?). You could do one, keep it in the top right corner, have one cable, and have full-tank flow. I have MP40s, and I don't mind the wires, but I'm still very intrigued by the Gyres (though they may require more maintenance). You could also look into Tunze pumps or Trident WAV pumps. my friend has that on his RSR350 tucked into the back left and right corners, blowing diagonally at the front center glass, and there's no pump on the sides, you don't see the wires against the black background, and there's definitely adequate flow (his tank is extremely overgrown after 2 years).

Also, I would recommend getting a refugium or at minimum an algae reactor. I have a skimz MBR127 and it's great, and there are some other relatively inexpensive competitors too. It'll save you a lot of headaches as your new tank matures, which will be the first 6-8 months.

Good luck and welcome back!

[Mikegray]

Thanks for replies everyone. I appreciate it. I understand all these pieces are needed but helps. I'm all.about spending the money the first time to do it right and giving my chance at better success a notch above. And I also understand equipment brands and some things here can be like keeping up with the jones'. Do other brands that perform equally as well is definitely a good idea. I dont necessarily need #1 top notch brands. So I'll read about that skimmer above. Return pump above and powerheads. If I have to get powerheads on sides. So be it. I'll do it. Mp10 sounds like they wont stay on thickness of the wb 100.3. So that would be 2 mp40 for.a 3ft tank. Sounds like I probably can save money with a different brand and find a way to make it clean looking in back top corners like you mentioned.

[lat0403]

I have a Waterbox 100.3 as well. I don't think I would do the plus if I were you. You've listed several Ecotech products so I would go with 2 xr15 instead. Then you can do the Reeflink if you want and control all of it through that. But with that said, the Reeflink is completely pointless for the Vectra. It needs to run at a constant speed so there's nothing to program.

My return pump is the Vectra M1. I run it at 40% power and it's plenty of flow and very quiet. I don't think you'd like the S1. I've had mine as high as 60% and there's some noise when it's up that high. You'd have to turn your S1 up pretty high to get enough flow.

Mine has a Maxspect XF230 gyre in the display. The gyre can be up close to the surface, so I've got the cord coming out the top and then along the top of the glass to the back of the tank. It's not that noticeable this way. There's really not much that can be done about it though unless you do place them on the back. At least with the gyre or the vortechs there's no cords in the tank.

As far as skimmer, I don't know. I got the Quantum because it was free with the tank during the Black Friday sale. It does a fine job but that doesn't mean another skimmer wouldn't perform just as well.

[Mikegray]

thanks for the vectra opinion. im going to look up the Maxspect XF230 gyre now. i kind of like the hydra look a tad better... but the Radion are def a option.

Lat0403 - are you still using the filter socks or did you completely remove those and go a better route?

[dkeller_nc]

From the standpoint of where to place powerheads, this is a 3 foot tank. So while you'll get the most bang for your buck with powerheads placed on the sides, you could do just as well with a couple of extra pumps placed on the back if you hate the wires. Where that would get unreasonably expensive is with a 6 foot tank, where you'd need 2 pumps every two feet, and maybe that wouldn't be enough.

From the standpoint of equipment choices, it might be worth your while to watch through the BRS Ultra Low Maintenance series of videos, where the discuss in detail all of the equipment options they considered. There's quite a lot of that in the WWC tank series as well.

One option in particular that's discussed in the ULM series that might appeal to you is going bare-bottom and placing a couple of MP10s on the back near the bottom, which makes them almost invisible.

[Mikegray]

ok thanks.. ill probabaly just have to man up and put them on the sides of the Waterbox no matter how it looks... but that being said, reading alot of Mp10 not even able to go on the 100.3 glass to thick.. so might have to invest in 2 Mp40's and not put them on full blast ever...

[dkeller_nc]

Yeah, I've heard of people using MP10s on 1/2" glass, and some have gotten it to work, and others haven't.

One thought to cut down on the expense and still have a nice flow pattern would be to get a couple of the Tunzes. Yes, you'll have cords in the tank, but if you place them on the back wall, you can conceal the cords by running them up the side of the overflow.

One consideration - the Tunze nanostream 6095s would be ideal from the standpoint of the size of your tank and their flowrate. Tunze's literature states that the glass thickness limit is 3/8", but they do make the "stream" (as opposed to "nano stream") pumps that are good up to 1/2" thick. Since in the case of the Tunzes the magnet is just holding the pump in place rather than magnetic drive coupling like the Vortechs, it may be possible to get the stronger magnets from them, and run the nanostream.

To determine this, I'd suggest giving Roger a call at Tunze USA. He's highly knowledgeable, very nice, and will bend over backwards to help an individual customer. I think he's at the "General Distributor" number in Austin TX - here's the link (https://www.tunze.com/US/en/dealer-addresses/in-my-country.html).

Even if you have to get the Tunze Stream 6155 to accommodate your glass thickness, that might still offer you an advantage over the MP40s, since you can place the 6155s in the lower 1/3rd of the tank along the back wall, then aim them to point at the sides of the tank (something you can't do with the Vortechs).

[Mikegray]

Yeah, I've heard of people using MP10s on 1/2" glass, and some have gotten it to work, and others haven't.

One thought to cut down on the expense and still have a nice flow pattern would be to get a couple of the Tunzes. Yes, you'll have cords in the tank, but if you place them on the back wall, you can conceal the cords by running them up the side of the overflow.

One consideration - the Tunze nanostream 6095s would be ideal from the standpoint of the size of your tank and their flowrate. Tunze's literature states that the glass thickness limit is 3/8", but they do make the "stream" (as opposed to "nano stream") pumps that are good up to 1/2" thick. Since in the case of the Tunzes the magnet is just holding the pump in place rather than magnetic drive coupling like the Vortechs, it may be possible to get the stronger magnets from them, and run the nanostream.

To determine this, I'd suggest giving Roger a call at Tunze USA. He's highly knowledgeable, very nice, and will bend over backwards to help an individual customer. I think he's at the "General Distributor" number in Austin TX - here's the link (https://www.tunze.com/US/en/dealer-addresses/in-my-country.html).

Even if you have to get the Tunze Stream 6155 to accommodate your glass thickness, that might still offer you an advantage over the MP40s, since you can place the 6155s in the lower 1/3rd of the tank along the back wall, then aim them to point at the sides of the tank (something you can't do with the Vortechs).


Your on to something. Just looked up the tunze stream 6105s. They can be turned so potentially putting on back glass of the waterbox 100.3. One on each side. With a controller to run then together like the MPs. Will probably cost the same but location on the back might be better for me. Chords should hide on the black glass only have to see chord come out over top. But that being said. Two on back corners pointing as diagonal as I can can towards middle. I guess I'd have to experiment all said and done when I get it going because I want sand bed. Not sure if that or have them pointing straight forward with they included wide flow spread will be best and allow the sand to stay put! Lol. But I like the tunze because they can be pointed in directions.

[dkeller_nc]

Well, it would still be worth calling Roger at Tunze USA to ask whether you can get stronger magnets for the nanostream pumps. The 6105s were made for a much larger tank, and while they're certainly usable since you can dial them way down, they'll be unnecessarily large for your tank, not to mention considerably more expensive.

[Mikegray]

Good call. I reached out to him via email since it's kind of late. Ya I dont need anything to powerful. I dont intend to upgrade from that 100.3 ever. But want ability to get spa in future with experience if I get a hang of it. But I've read getting a pump that u can run less power would be better and quieter than getting a smaller one and max it out.

I saw these stream 3. Powerful. Looks ready to hide since they place them in back facing up.

[dkeller_nc]

Yep, and huge. Really ideal for a 4 foot or larger tank. Just to give you an idea, I run 4 MP10s on my 50 gallon cube. The reason there's 4 instead of 2 isn't because there's not enough "oomph" in 2 MP10s, it's to get a wider flow field. The MP10s are 1500 gph maxed out - I run these 4 MP10s at about 50%, so about 750 gph.

Ideally what you'd like for your tank is 4 smaller pumps like 4 Tunze 6095s, or 2 6095s and 2 6040s. That will allow you to run them at 1/2 power or so, and distribute the flow evenly across the tank. But you'll have to see if Tunze has a solution for the extra-thick glass.

One other thing I'll mention. Since you dislike cords and other visible equipment, one solution would be to go with a closed loop and a controllable pump with lots of flow regime options like the EcoTech Vectra M1. But to use this option, you will have to have several extra bulkheads drilled into the tank - either on the bottom or the back, or both.

[Mikegray]

It's not the chords that I sketch about. They will be hard to see on the black back. I'm not digging the idea of a nice rimless with 2 pumps. One on either side of the viewing glass dead smack in the middle and blocking the star fire glass. It might even not be that bad and most of you do it. I might be just over exaggerating. But the 6105s allow me to do that and have a wide flow adapter. Roger got back to me already. He said the waterbox is fairly small and recommends 6095s. Especially for LPS and softies. So I might over do it. Get a pair of 6105s. Dial it down. With wide flow adapter. That should give me ability in future to try a sps coral or two.

[Mikegray]

Also wasnt aware of the size of these pumps. Roger mentioned 6095 are like a baseball and 6105 are a softball. That's pretty hefty in a 3 ft tank. On each side. Didnt realize the physical size

[Mikegray]

So far. Water box 100.3 plus version
Dual hydra 26 hd.
Vectra m1 return pump
2 6095 tunze with controllers
Skimmer. nyos quantum 120
Heater: no research yet.
Think I'm keeping filter sock setup atleast for now.
No refugium at start since sump doesnt have spot for it.

[dkeller_nc]

Curious about this - did Roger confirm the 6095s will hold onto the 3/4" glass, or do you have to get magnet extenders (i.e., stronger magnets).

While eventually I think you will want to add two more pumps simply to broaden the flow field, even the 6095s will have more than enough flow for SPS.

Since you're willing to spend the dough for some pretty nice equipment, the only thing I'd change on your list is getting 2 Radion XR15s instead of the Hydras. The spectrum's a bit broader, though that's a minor consideration. But the ability to add diffusers to the XR15s is a big plus.

Think I might've mentioned this elsewhere, but I run 2 XR15s and one XR30 on a 2 foot by 2 foot 50 gallon. Just the XR30 has more than enough power to cook all of my corals, so it's not about intensity. But since these are the generation 3 fixtures, I can't add the snazzy new diffusers. So the reason for running 4 pucks on the 50g is a uniform light field.

With your 3' tank, and with diffusers, the XR15s will give you a nice, even light field, will be more than intense enough even in the corners for LPS/softies, and the price is about the same.

[dkeller_nc]

Oops - duplicate post.

[Mikegray]

Ya I rather take my time and read and invest in good stuff than rush. I'm not set on the hydra. But for some reason I'm attracted to them. They look better to me. But I'm not 100% set and haveeeee to get it. And its also helpful that waterbox comes with them if I get the plus version. But I saw the radion has that lenses that snaps on that diffuses the light smoothes it out. I think it's the rectangle look oppose of the square look is what I'm attracted too. I dont know what it is. But I can definitely get either one. Both have nice mounts that hide the cords i believe. Water box did a 100.3 build with the 2 xr15s. I watched it. That was before they made a deal with I guess hydra 26s.

The website says 6095s up to 1/2 glass. And he confirmed they come with a magnet for 1/2 glass and come with the wide flow.

[Mikegray]

The new XR15 gen 4 are nice though. I can definitely get two of those. I think the diffuser is built into these. Cost is a few more but I can definitely do it. Mainly because the additional 2 mount Arms. But I'm down to switch that part.

[Mikegray]

I misunderstood new gen 4. Comfirmed by them. Still gotta buy the diffuser. It's not built in

[dkeller_nc]

Both will definitely grow coral. The radions just offer a way to diffuse the light field to avoid shadowing that's common with puck-type LED fixtures. That's one reason that Bulk Reef Supply went with a custom hood and T5HO and Kessil A360s over the BRS160 build that they posted a series of videos on a couple of years ago. It's also why Aquatic Life, and now Geisemann have come out with integrated T5HO fixtures that accommodate a wide variety of LED fixtures.

[Mikegray]

I think I'll get the xr15s. Ans have to just buy the diffusers right out the gate.

[dkeller_nc]

One thing to further complicate your decision. With the Radions, you've 3 ways of controlling them (actually 4, if you count the buttons on the fixture, but they don't offer much control): plugging a USB cable into the light (comes with the fixture), using a controller like the Neptune Apex and the WXM module, and getting the Ecotech Reef Link controller ($200, I think). In my case, I use the Neptune Apex with the WXM module, and that controls all three lights and 4 Vortech pumps.

I used to have AI Vegas - these came with an infuriating little plug-in controller. But I think the AI Hydras come with a built-in Wi-Fi that requires that you have a wi-fi capable device like an Android or iPhone. It might work with a normal laptop's wi-fi, but not sure about that.

To really get the correct information, I'd consider calling Bulk Reef Supply. They will give you accurate information on every light they sell (there's a lot of them!).

[Mikegray]

I have android phone. So it would work. But I thought about apex. I been reading about the apex for years. Plus. Roger mentioned I can sent the tunze on modes but if I want it to be like one on. One off working together like waves and going In opposite directions. Not sure how all u reefers run pumps these days. I'd have to get a controller. Plus i think apex has optional to test water electronically so I wouldnt have to actually do test kits constantly right. Apex might be a good investment.

[Mikegray]

Oh no. Girl friend said go big or go home on tank. I picked 100.3 so I didnt have to deal with a big one. And go huge to fail. Shes giving me a hint I might be able to stretch a larger one. Ahah. But not sure I'm ready

[Mikegray]

Just looked up apex. Are you referring to the one system that's about 499. Then I'd add a salinity probe and then I have to buy the radion module to run the lights and pumps. Or does the 499 kit run the 2 tunze on waves as is? Regardless I'd have to buy the radion module unless I wanna just use the wifi that radion offers. I wonder which is better

[dkeller_nc]

OK, so this is relatively complicated, so bear with me.

To run Radion lights, you only need to program them once with a USB cable. That's the bare-bones, set it and forget it approach, nothing extra required. I think this is correct, but you REALLY need to call BRS to be certain about this, since I don't run mine this way.

The second option is with Ecotech's reef link gizmo. That gives you wireless control of Radion lights, Vortech pumps, and now Vectra pumps from an app.

The third option is with the Neptune Apex tank controller. To do this, you need the Apex controller and the WXM module. I can't verify whether the Vectra pumps will work through the WXM module, but the Radion lights and Vortech pumps definitely will.

As far as what Apex to get, there's a $799 package that contains the controller, 3 probes and the controllable outlet & i-link power supply. The $499 ApexEL ("EL" stands for "entry level", I think). That controller is not identical to the first one - it deletes a variable voltage output (necessary for controlling Tunze pumps), the salinity probe and the ORP probe connection. I think the deal with this is that you can add back all of that capability later on by purchasing modules (in this case, the VDM module, the Salinity module, and the pH/ORP module). So lower up-front cost, but higher long-term cost with more wires and modules.

For controlling Tunzes from the Apex, you need a specific cord that plugs into the Apex "pro", or plugs into the VDM module if you have the ApexEL. The other end of that cord plugs into 2 controllers that come with a pair of Tunze pumps. You can then run the pumps through the Apex with waves, surges, etc... The other way you can do it without the Apex is to buy a specific Tunze cord that hooks a pair of the controllers together. That will give you sync/antisync operation - when one pump is running fast, one pump will be running slower, and vice-versa. You can, of course, adjust the high and low speeds of the pumps.

I guess this is what I'd say about bigger tanks. They're easier to keep stable, but since you've got a good deal of reefing experience, I doubt that would be an issue for you. The great thing about a big tank is bigger fish, and more of them, plus plenty of room to aquascape. The downside to a big tank is more seawater for water changes, much more expensive lighting if you go with LED (for T5HO or MH, not quite as steep a price hike), and possibly, a much bigger PITA if you're changing water with buckets.

[Mikegray]

I'd rather stick with a manageable size. Less live.rock. less

I guess there are many options to running lights and tunze pumps and return pump. I'd have to look into it more as I get the tank and that decision actually has to be made.

[Mikegray]

good thing once tank is up and running the Apex is something i can do while the tank is cycling and running its not something i must have before i drop some water in it.. but ill probably go with apex. do i really need the ORP. i dont even know what that is for water checks.. but salinity temp and PH is definitly nice... and even their auto top off kit or the XP one i look at is nice.

[dkeller_nc]

Personally, I don't think ORP is all that useful, but you'll get varied opinions on that. Not sure what "XP" is, though.

On the auto-top off, I'm personally going to stick with the Tunze Osmolator on the new tank I'm setting up (Innovative Marine 40g EXT). I've got 3 of them in operation, and none have given me any problems in the 8 years since I bought my first one.

I can't say how common this is, but apparently a few folks have had some problems with the PMUP that Neptune sells with the ATOs, so I'm going to steer clear of that option for now.

[Mikegray]

Personally, I don't think ORP is all that useful, but you'll get varied opinions on that. Not sure what "XP" is, though.

On the auto-top off, I'm personally going to stick with the Tunze Osmolator on the new tank I'm setting up (Innovative Marine 40g EXT). I've got 3 of them in operation, and none have given me any problems in the 8 years since I bought my first one.

I can't say how common this is, but apparently a few folks have had some problems with the PMUP that Neptune sells with the ATOs, so I'm going to steer clear of that option for now.


XP Aqua ATO System tell me what you think.. yea i know Tunze is def in running!

[Mikegray]

what im quickly finding out, i will be having a crap ton of chords and control units..i will definitly have to find a way to make it super neat in my stand since i have OCD. or build something to showcase all the control units and hide wires/chords/cables. with apex and tunze pump controls and this unit. its going to be tight in the stand! lol

[dkeller_nc]

Well, personal opinion, but the XP Aqua doesn't really offer me anything that the Tunze doesn't, but that's partially because I'm not interested in a solenoid to hook the ATO directly to a RODI system (an exceptionally bad idea, IMO), and I don't need the switched outlet to run a larger pump with a greater head height.

I guess if I was to consider something else besides the Tunze, it'd be the AutoAqua, because it has automatic water change capability built in.

Regarding mounting of electronics, also a personal preference, but I don't mount anything like that inside the stand. Warm, nearly 100% humidity with salt spray doesn't give me warm and fuzzies about longevity.

[Mikegray]

Guess I'll have to just out the wood work skills lol

[Mikegray]

Dkeller_nc

This apex reading is making me pumped. Looking at all these cool cabinets made for them is getting me ready to make one with lights. In future. People are dosing mag cal and all correct. The apex has 2 reservoirs. I'm assuming for all and cal. People are just manual dosing with a store bought additive? I'd think they would have a 3 tank res.

Also I used to make kalkwasser and just gravity drip slowly. What are you reefers mixing in the reservoirs. Store bought additives or homemade cal,alk,mag solutions

[dkeller_nc]

The Apex DOS system has two reservoirs because, for the most part, people dose calcium and alkalinity only and rely on water changes to keep the magnesium concentration stable. One can dose magnesium, of course, but it generally declines so slowly in a system (without water changes) that it can be ignored.

Having said that, there are folks, especially in the SPS crowd, that are firm believers in dosing - lots of things. They generally opt for the GHL, Pacific Sun or other multi-channel dosers that have 4, 5 or even 7 channels. I don't actually fall into the camp of "firm believer", despite keeping mostly SPS. So I use the DOS 2-channel, and dose alkalinity and calcium.

Most that I know of use Bulk Reef Supply's Pharma-Bulk chemicals and make solutions themselves. It's very easy to do, and they'll even sell you a kit with pre-measured chemicals, containers to put the solution in, measuring cups and bottle pumps.

Most that I know don't dose kalkwasser, though there are a few on the board that do. Part of the reason is that for SPS, it's come to light in the last 10 years or so that they are very sensitive to the stability of alkalinity in the tank. It's not that you can't have a very stable alkalinity and still dose kalkwasser, it's just more work. There's a thread on this in the Chemistry section, btw.