why can biodigest or XPORT NO3 brick work better than large live rocks?

[CTaylor]

Hi,

I'm just wondering that b/c I have large live rocks, which I would think have areas for NO3 reduction. I just do not see how a vial of biodigest will solve an NO3 issue. Is it a different species of bacteria that colonize rock even better (than whatever is in tank now)?
**How long until I see a difference in lower NO3 using this?

And for the brick, it's not huge, about 1/3 size of my largest live rock. I have probably 30-40 lb total of three large boulder rocks. The brick looks like a small change compared to what I have now. I guess my boulder rocks may be too porous to allow good NO3 reduction, but they are sooo dense, way heavier than they look. So does the brick really make a difference in systems lacking 'boulder' live rock?

TY

[mcgyvr]

The bacteria is unlikely to be beneficial in any established system...Its basically snake oil when marketed to an established system...

The blocks are no better/no different than nice porous rock..They will only be beneficial in a system with minimal/too little rock

Both can be helpful in the right situations and to some extent.... They can help some and do nothing for others depending on the specific details of each system..

[Uncle99]

Yup, my understanding of this product is it’s supposed to seed various types of beneficial bacteria’s. It is true that your population contains various types, some take much more time to develop. A cycle is simply those first bacteria’s, but efficient players will make their way into your system in time anyway.

I never used any starter bacteria ever, in more than 25 years, just good old time did the trick.

What I do is feed my existing population by carbon dosing to increase its size and therefore ability to process waste.

If you do decide to carbon dose be consistent and make very small changes weekly until nitrate states to drop..... then hold this dose.......many reefers run in the 2-5ppm range for Nitrates.

So they are selling bacteria in a bottle, unless you look at it under a microscope you would have no idea how much if any was actually alive. I recently bought live pods, but when viewed under the scope, not much moving in that bottle and cost me $50 bucks.

Holy man, I am going to farm phyto and pods at that retail price.

The other option is just to be patient, and that costs nothing except time

[CTaylor]

Yup, my understanding of this product is it’s supposed to seed various types of beneficial bacteria’s. It is true that your population contains various types, some take much more time to develop. A cycle is simply those first bacteria’s, but efficient players will make their way into your system in time anyway.

I never used any starter bacteria ever, in more than 25 years, just good old time did the trick.

What I do is feed my existing population by carbon dosing to increase its size and therefore ability to process waste.

If you do decide to carbon dose be consistent and make very small changes weekly until nitrate states to drop..... then hold this dose.......many reefers run in the 2-5ppm range for Nitrates.

So they are selling bacteria in a bottle, unless you look at it under a microscope you would have no idea how much if any was actually alive. I recently bought live pods, but when viewed under the scope, not much moving in that bottle and cost me $50 bucks.

Holy man, I am going to farm phyto and pods at that retail price.

The other option is just to be patient, and that costs nothing except time

That all made a lot of sense. Though over time my no3 has been increasing after 1+ yrs of 3-10 ppm. It went to 10 a brief time and slid back to 3-5. Now it's popped to 20-40 ppm. So I don't want to wait and do nothing.

Biodigest has a lot of good reviews and a fish guru friend of mine recommends it. So it's why I got that. Like you suggested it must be a different strain of bacteria than I have already in my tank.

**But I also got the Brick. lol. That is additional surface for the bacteria, which makes the most sense to me as a long term fix (and/or the vodka dosing).

I just don't know how many days, I' thinking a week-2 weeks to see a significant drop in NO3 from the biodigest, given it's supposedd to be dosed every 2 weeks.
I test daily to try to catch that downturn if there is an actual turning point down, though it may be so gradual I can't pin point any down turn. Crossing fingers.... my remaining acros have PE still. and my BN seems to be hanging in there with no further tissue loss. though I'm sure I'll endup fragging it just in case. <<I wouldnt be too worried about the excess no3 if it wasnt out of balance with my undetectable PO4. When I'm in balance my tank does really well. I'm always learning something new. This time it was to not assume any certain level like nitrates is 'ok'.

TY again :-D

[Uncle99]

Sounds like plan.
Let us know the results if you can

[CTaylor]

will do!. Im sure others are curious, whether they know it or not lol the timescale on effectiveness of these products. And verifying they can work with UL phosphate (though there are many other factors perhaps like pH, etcccc).

[CTaylor]

I'm getting no or very slow if at all lowering of my NO3 anymore. I started the prodibio 5 days ago, so not very long. But the nitrate seemd to come down some as of monday, and no change since then. It's stuck at 20 ppm. So I'm gonig to start the brick...I'm not having a good feelling my NO3 will come down unless I start using vodka and/or raising phosphates. Both I do not want to do. We'll see....

[mcgyvr]

Vinegar dosing is SO cheap and so easy...
And proven to work over and over again...
Do it..dont look back

[CTaylor]

Vinegar dosing is SO cheap and so easy...
And proven to work over and over again...
Do it..dont look back

I know what you're saying MC :)
But honestly, im' tyring to make my tank as less daily maintenance as possible. I dont mind working on it, it's my hobby of course. But if I'm not avail for a few days, etc or a week on a rreally rare vaca, I dont want levels to get out of whack if it's depending on that. One idea is to get a doser (hmmmmm). But, anyhow I will do it if I need to, and maybe with a doser (though the acidity of the vinegar may kill the doser... but maybe if I dilute it , but that's another thread :) ). And I don't know what else is in the vinegar bottle besides acetic acid and pure h2o. I don't that accumulting in the tank. The cost obviously is nothing, that's not even a thought.

I'll probably end up doing that... but just want to go the maintance free, etc route first.

So far my SPS are haning in there, looking less stressed, so I think I'm able to try my way first and see that out. I must have gottn the NO3 jsut below the stressful threshhold.

[Uncle99]

The only ways I reduced maintenance was automatically dose daily Alk, CA, MG, Nopox ( my selection)....... cost was $120 Cdn

In addition, I use an ATO for salinity, and an auto feeder, another $160 for both

These virtually eliminated daily chores. Even better was the stability created by the automation. Coral Grow was visibly faster.

Once ever four months I fill the jars and feeder
Once ever two weeks I fill the ATO

I always said I would never use these toys



I was wrong

[CTaylor]

The only ways I reduced maintenance was automatically dose daily Alk, CA, MG, Nopox ( my selection)....... cost was $120 Cdn

In addition, I use an ATO for salinity, and an auto feeder, another $160 for both

These virtually eliminated daily chores. Even better was the stability created by the automation. Coral Grow was visibly faster.

Once ever four months I fill the jars and feeder
Once ever two weeks I fill the ATO

I always said I would never use these toys



I was wrong

I really dont care a lot about the cost compared to the time. And also I dont want to add things, chems/preservatives etc to tank that can build up or be absorbed by the rocks, etc...

I already have the ATO.. and autofeeder (not for reef, but for my OSFF tank lol) < that's another thread. So I'm all about automation and paying for it, though the feeder is only $35.

But this is a little offfff subject ;) .. related, maybe a new thread.
**Automation on carbon dosing would be nice. Only thing I can think that would get in way is evap of the ethanol, since it's highly volatile. I cant see how a container would work to keep say a weeks worth. Because if it's sealed container (it would have to be) then a vacuum is created as the vodka is dosed.
Maybe vinegar is better for this as maybe with that it's less volatile, therefore less reason to keep the top off container totally sealed. But then there is the space you need for the top off ,and I have literally 0 until I move someday :).

**So I just added the brick last night. I'm hoping somehow I can get to 5 ppm nitrates with it and no C dose. I'll give it a month. I have another thread asking about that.