Sick fish

[Bremenguppie]

Since I cant post a picture. I'm pretty sure my fish have ick. I'll ne headed to fish store today to see if the have some treatment i can put in the tank. Hopefully it's not to late. Anyone else ever deal with ick and what's best way to rid the tank of it.

[Uncle99]

Ick cannot be resolved in the tank
Once identified, the fish must be treated outside the DT in a separate QT tank
There are only three ways to treat, TTM, Hypo, Copper

The DT must run without fish for 72 days.

There’s a ton of info on how each works on this site

[hkgar]

How treat ick (http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1990809), There are only 3 ways, everything else is snake oil. Do you have inverts in your tank? If not you can do Hypo in the DT.

[Bremenguppie]

Yes I've got inverts. I looked at a couple options and on the advise of the fish store they recommended I use ich-x. They said copper is the best way but do to all my inverts they recommended going with the ich-x. I also picked up some test kits for nitrates and phosphate. I find that my levels are a little high. I started first treatment t yesterday and will do 20% water changes for next 3 days and hopefully I can get everything back under control. Also leaving the lights off for next 3 days as well.

[hkgar]

from: http://www.hikariusa.com/wp/solutions/healthaid/ich-x/
"INGREDIENTS

water, formaldehyde (<5%), methanol (<2%), malachite green chloride (<0.1%)
Recommendations: Use Ich-X to treat conditions related to ich and ich related disease".

I do not see copper listed. Ich-x = snake oil. Always remember that when you ask the LFS a question, their goal is to find a product they have on their shelves to answer your question with.

Copper is not recommended for treatment of Ich (http://www.reefsanctuary.com/forum/index.php?threads/copper.8467/) in the DT as it has very detrimental effects on inverts and once copper is introduced is becomes part of the live rock and typically cannot be completely removed. The best "copper" treatment is Cupramaine and should be done in a hospital tank and not the DT.

"

[Bremenguppie]

What is hypo?

[Uncle99]

What is hypo?

Ick-x translates to certain death

Hypo salinity is the process of lowering salinity to 1.009 until ick is clear.
It will kill anything but fish so you must do that in separate tank.

Treatment depends on which fish you are treating.

If you don’t follow the recommendations of treating Ick, all your fish will die!

They attach, the feed on the fish, they fall, they multiply x 100, they swim, they attach and so until each fish becomes so weak, they die.

They have limited time, get them out.

[Bremenguppie]

Okay I will. I've got a smaller tank I can set up as a recovery tank. If you do the hypo way do u have to remove all your live rock as well or just your fish and inverts? How long do you keep the sanity at 1.09 to know you got all the ich?

[Apercula]

Hypo is fish only. Leave the rock and inverts in main tank.

[Bremenguppie]

Okay thanks. I'll get it set up. How long does it take to kill it all doing the hypo any idea? What a pain in ***..

[Uncle99]

You will maintain 1.009 salinity for 14 days past when the last dot is gone.
Then you will bring your salinity up at .001 each day until you reach 1.025
They will stay in this tank until the DT is ready, 72 days after taking fish out.
Exchange 10% water at 1.009 each day and vacuum up any uneaten food and waste this will keep ammonia from building up

[Bremenguppie]

Well I've lost my two eels. Only thing left is two damsels, some emerald crabs, blue leg crabs, horse shoe crab and bunch snails. So I dont know what way is right way to go to clean up this mess

[HumbleFish]

Well I've lost my two eels. Only thing left is two damsels, some emerald crabs, blue leg crabs, horse shoe crab and bunch snails. So I dont know what way is right way to go to clean up this mess

Pull the damsels, give them to a LFS, and go fallow (fishless) in your DT for 76 days.

Moving forward, quarantine all fish purchases so this doesn't happen again.

[Bremenguppie]

So should I still take the salinity lever down to 1.009 for 14 days and still go through the steps or just leave it fish less for 76 days and let the ich die out on its own

[hkgar]

Read through this thread (http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1985626). It is very short.

Once the fish are removed from the DT the DT MUST remain fallow (fishless) for 72 days before any fish are reintroduced. I have done hypo but much prefer TTM. Part of your procedure for ALL new fish should include TTM and then at least another two weeks of QT.

Not taking precautions is like playing Russian roulette with your tank. I didn't take precautions and lost 9 fish to Ich. I can completely emphasize with your situation.

[Bremenguppie]

I'm realizing that sorry to be a pain in *** but I appreciate everyone's help. What does TTW stand for? I'm not up on all the abbreviations yet lol

[hkgar]

TTM is Tank Transfer Method.

[Bremenguppie]

Okay thank you. I'll stop bugging everyone. Thanks for all the help.

[Uncle99]

Remove damsels and Do nothing at all for 72 days but maintain tank as normal.
At that point, the ick is gone

Your not bugging anyone, that is what this site is for

Good luck

[hkgar]

I'm realizing that sorry to be a pain in *** but I appreciate everyone's help. What does TTW stand for? I'm not up on all the abbreviations yet lol

Not a pain at all. We are here to help and have all asked questions when first starting out. Lot's to learn on this site.

[Bremenguppie]

That's no kidding. I've learned a lot already. My tank will now be sitting for next 72 days. I researched the TTM and will be following that when getting anymore fish. I ended up losing the damsels in the QT so lessened learned and wont happen again

[hkgar]

Welcome to the joys of reefing, where the learning never stops. I've been at it almost 20 years and com here (Reef Central) every day to see what I might learn and also to help out.

Someday, down the road, I look forward to seeing you giving advice to a newbie!
Gary's 2 rules of reefing
1. Take things slow. Nothing happens fast in a reef
2. Take things slower than you thought I meant in rule 1.

[Uncle99]

Yup, share your frustration, learned same way.
Anything going in is suspect, play it safe always.
In addition, well fed fish in a low stress environment have less instances of sickness.

[monkeysee1]

Yep. +1
...what hkgr posted should be mandatory reading for beginner saltwater aquarists. No fish needs to suffer from ich....
.....and - to keep it out of your tank for good, quarantine is the key....

[polish_bear_65]

So. Did you save your fish?

[CrayolaViolence]

Quarantine and dip. I've found that disease can lay in wait for a lot longer than we think. I dip fish before qt and dip fish after. I use methalin blue (sp) and have had great success with it.

[hkgar]

Do what you want but these are the only treatments which work:

1. Hyposalinity - Using a refractometer, hold salinity at 11ppt to 12ppt until 4 weeks after the last spot was seen. (Best to use salinity, but if you use specific gravity, that equates to roughly 1.008 to 1.009 sp. gr. units). Raise salinity slowly and observe fish for 4 more weeks. It is difficult to control pH and water quality during treatment, however this is the least stressful treatment for the fish.

2. Copper treatment - Follow medication recommendations. This can be effective in 2 to 4 weeks of treatment. After treatment, remove all copper and observe fish for 4 more weeks. Copper is a poison to the fish and creates some stress.

3.. Transfer method – The fish is moved from tank to tank to separate the fish from the cysts that fall off and the free-swimming stages of the parasite. Two hospital tanks are needed to perform this treatment. The fish is stressed by having to keep moving it between these hospital tanks.

4. These are the ONLY 3 known cures that work almost 100% of the time. Other chemicals will kill the Cryptocaryon irritans parasite, but only in special conditions that are not good for the fish. Some chemicals will only kill some of the organisms, letting the others escape death to go on to multiply and infect.

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1985626

[Bremenguppie]

Polar bear 6t nope I ended up losing all the fish. My tank is now sitting empty for next 72 days and I'm setting up a TTM for future fish. Expensive lesson learned lol

[hkgar]

I empathize, I too suffered an expensive lesson. Those who ignore are simply playing Russian Roulette. Eventually you will lose.

Sorry for your loss. You will come back, better.

[hopkinsta69]

Tank transfer method is best starting option in my opinion.

[Bremenguppie]

Polish bear I did not. I lost them all. My tank is sitting fish less for next 72 days. I am changing up way i do things. In future I'll be going to a TTM when i buy new fish.