ultra crocea prices?

[casbarian]

What is a fair price for a 4-5" ultra crocea? There is a great looking one at my LFS for 99 bucks. Some slightly smaller for $80. I'm new to clams so I'm a bit nervous about spending that much.

Thanks

[ADS]

Croceas grow slower and are probably a bit more difficult to keep requiring intense light. They are usually very colorful and more expensive.
Prices vary on average. That's on the high end for online but on target for LFS prices.
Adam

[fish_dave]

Using wholesale pricing as a guide line those prices are reasonable store prices for Solomon Island crocea. They are high for Vietnam crocea. The problem is knowing where the clams really came from. Many times the Vietnam clams are passed off as Solomon clams in order to justify the higher prices. Many of the crocea clams that I see avilable online in the 39.00 to 65.00 price range are Vietnam clams. I have seen several marked as Solomon crocea when the pricing would dictate otherwise.
Yes, I am biased towards Solomon Island clams. And also yes I have seen many very nice crocea clams that are great color and
are thriving that have come from Vietnam. What bothers me is how many times I see Vietnam clams passed off as Solomon clams generally to justify a higher price or perceived quality difference. While on the subject it also bothers me to see obviously wild collected clams showing up from Indonesia (especially Bali) entering the U.S. either as cultured clams or as smuggled speciemens. There are no legal permits issued from Indonesia for wild collected clams. There are wild collected clams getting into the country from there under cultured clam permits. I am not against the availability of wild collected if they come in legally, it does bother me to see regulations circumvented.

[Vili_Shark]

Hi Dave, seems like somebody stepped on your toe or something.

I just cant see the point, if the VietNam croceas are coming in excellent quality and colors, so why should the client care if the clam arrived from VietNam or if it arrived from Solomon?

IF (again IF) the quality is same, colors are same, so what's the point in getting the Solomon ones?
They are not coming with a diamond in them, are they?

In Hong Kong and Thailand I see many Croceas from VietNam and I dont see anybody complain about the quality or torn foot or anything like that .

[Wilafur]

vili_shark i think fish_dave's issue is that retailers, or wholesalers, are selling vietnam clams as solomon clams so that they can charge more. quite unethical don't you think?

[fish_dave]

Vili_shark, Wilafur got it right. My issue is not with the vietnam clams, as I said I have seen many very nice and healthy ones come in from Vietnam. I have also seen total wipeouts of shipments of 600 - 700 clams from Vietnam. There has developed a perceived difference in the quality of clams depending on where they come from. The issue that I have is that I see clams being marketed as coming from the Solomons when in fact they are not. Several people have posted pictures of clams that were sold to them as Solomon clams when in fact they were not. Several weeks ago a large number of gold teardrop maximas came into the country and many were marketed as having come from the Solomons. At that same time none had come in from the Solomons. One of the major wolesale outlets in L.A. recently had several farm raised golden teardrop maximas come in, they sold them cheaply at regular maxima prices. Many were purchased and then resold as Solomon teardrops. They were great clams with no problems but is it right to relable them as Solomon to command a higher price ? None of the Solomon teardrops are farm raised at present. If you have one that looks farm raised with full scutes then it is not from the Solomons.

[Vili_Shark]

I do understand about the unethical thing.
But what I'm trying to say goes deeper than that.
Why are people charging so much more for Solomon islands clams from the first place?
I dont really think it got to do with the quality,nor the price at the port of origin(at least not percentage wise with the last one), I think it got to do more with the freight charges that are way higher from SI to the states, than from other destinations like VietNam for example.(correct me if I'm wrong please)
My point is , why we as buyers, have to pay much more for for a Clam that was labeled as a Solomon clam, if actually it is not superior over the VietNam clam, or over the Farm raised tear drop that fish_dave was refering?

[fishforlife]

Vili,
You are right in saying that freight from Solomon island costs more than from Vietnam. But the freight difference will not be $20 per KG :)
It's just the Solomon islands clams are better collected in the past up until now. That's why they can charge premium price for the clams.
Vietnam clams was not collected right in the past and up to now.
That's why the Solomon does not feel any competition at all from Vietnam clams. Many of the divers have yet to be educated to collect it right.

Some new exporter have teach the divers to carefully remove the clams from the rock it is attach too.
You will see more clams of good quality will be coming out of Vietnam. As the quality of Vietnam clams improves, the Solomon islands will need to adjust their prices.

About vendors selling Vietnam clams as Solomon islands, I agree it is unethical.

[fish_dave]

Vili_Shark, People are charging more for the Solomon Island clams because they cost them more. The price at the port of origin is 2 to 3 times as much for the Solomon clams as for the Vietnam clams. The freight charges to the U.S. are pretty close to the same. The Solomons has very little in the way of infrastructure in the country. Getting around the Solomons is difficult and very expensive. The area where the clams are collected is a 24 to 30 hour trip by boat back to the main island where they are exported. In Vietnam there is great infrastructure and the product can just be driven or flown by plane to the export facility. This makes the price of clams very expensive at point of origin in the Solomons.
Last year the Solomons stopped shipping Crocea due to the lower prices coming from Vietnam which they could not compete with. After several months buyers started requesting the Solomon clams even at the higher price. They are now shipping clams from the solomons again although at the same high price as before. If the clams from the Solomons are not superior to the Vietnam clams then it makes no sense to pay the extra money to buy them. The issue that I have is why pay the extra money for what you think is a Solomon clam when it is really a Vietnam clam. I guess that it boils down to if you don't think there is a difference in quality then be sure to buy the cheapest clam you can find, if you do think that there is a quality difference then the problem rears up of knowing if you are really getting a Solomon clam or are just paying someone double for the Vietnam clam.

[Project Reef]

Solomon Island crocea clams look 20 times better than the ones from Vietnam.

[Project Reef]

Nevermind, they look 40 times better I mean.

At least all of the ones I've seen do.

[Project Reef]

Oops. Typo again, I meant to say 90 times better.

[Project Reef]

One more edit....by "Better" I mean better looking, much more beautiful, much more vibrant exotic colors and patterns.

[Vili_Shark]

It means to say that you guys in USA are getting the second class Clams from VietNam ( easier to say there's a Knicks game on the moon on saturday : )).
I see VietNam croceas in Hong Kong all the time, colors and patterns are the best it can get.
I saw a shipment of croceas from SI on few occassions , total around 300pcs of clams, I cant say I saw any better colors, the main difference was the size which got nothing to do with it.
I'll take some pictures when a shipment arrives to HK, I'm a lousy photographer though.

[Project Reef]

Electric grade Vietnam croceas are nice, but no where near as close to the vibrance of some particular Solomon Island croceas (I've also seen many crappy SI croceas). The ones Dave get's at his place are ESPECIALLY choice, the best I've seen Anywhere. Well worth the xtra money IMO. If you compare the best Vietnam croceas on the market today versus the best SI croceas, hands down, SI will take it each and everytime. MIND BOGGLING!

[Vili_Shark]

OK,
It's not an argument, I know what I saw, on the other hand I probably never saw fish_dave's SI croceas on the market.
I hope that my picture will show the true colors of these excellent croceas, when I think about it, it just cant get better than that, that's why think I'm right.
I'll talk with the LFS and see when his next VietNam shipment coming in, this guy is a direct importer .

[Project Reef]

Villa, I will try and take some pictures for you. Can you PM me your E-mail?

BTW, this isn't an argument at all. I guess it's easy for someone to come across fiesty while talking online like this, when that isn't the intent.

I also blame this nifty little Quick Reply box, there are no Happy Smileys to lighten up the mood. lol

[Vili_Shark]

:D
Sent, I hope to see those pics soon.

[mikrok]

quick question - how do you tell a farmed clam from a SI or Vietnam clam??? I hope to be getting into clams soon and i want to make sure it's a high quality clam, i hope to get what i pay for, and i certainly don't mind dropping the cash on it if it's worth it.
thanx guys

[fish_dave]

If you are talking about crocea an easy way tell generally is that the farmed clam will have full scutes on the side of the shell. It will look similar to a Maxima with scutes on the side. A wild crocea will be smooth on the side due to its boring activity to stay imbeded in the reef / coral rock. I have seen farmed crocea that the farmers knocked off the scutes for some reason but it was still obvious due to the rough edge from the broken scutes. I have seen this happen with squamosa also. I think that they do it some times to remove the sponge growing in the scutes rather than scrub it out with a brush. They find it easier to just knock off the scutes. In general though farmed clams have nicely developed and undamaged scutes.

[Aged Salt]

So, Ali, are you saying that Solomon Is. clams look better than V. N.?:D Bob

[hwynboy]

Originally posted by fishforlife
Vili,
Vietnam clams was not collected right in the past and up to now.
That's why the Solomon does not feel any competition at all from Vietnam clams. Many of the divers have yet to be educated to collect it right.

Some new exporter have teach the divers to carefully remove the clams from the rock it is attach too.
You will see more clams of good quality will be coming out of Vietnam. As the quality of Vietnam clams improves, the Solomon islands will need to adjust their prices.



From what I heard this is incorrect. There are 2 places that clams are collected in Vietnam. One is the north the other is the south. The north viatnamese clams are taken off the rocks for food...therefore they rip the clams off the rocks. Since it is for human consumption it does not matter what condition the clam is in when harvested since it will be processed for food. The clams taken in South Vietnam are for ornamental purposes. So these clams are taken care of when being removed from the sea. If you buy a vietnamese clam from the North collection site then chances are you will have torn foot on the clam. If you get the ones from the south you should be fine. Question here lies in can your distributor/picker discern the difference so as not to buy the wrong clams from the wrong site.

[fishforlife]

Yes, that's really true.
The north clams are not collected well at all.
If the exporters are in the South, chances are they collected only from the South and vice versa.
The reason is because transportation is horrible in VN. So the clams will not survive a trip of 12+ hrs by car/truck from the North. Compared to the US, the same distance can be covered in half the time.
To make things easy, you can more or less tell where the exporter gets his supply based on his farm location by checking it with the country map.
Hope that helps clarify my previous posting.

[Jimbo327]

Is someone going to post some pictures?

You know what they say: A picture is worth a thousand words!

Jim F. :D

[Phisher]

Heres mine...
http://www.digitalpose.com/mbr/1/34605/p/624204_2329266093972278571_vl.jpg
Not sure where its from but I paid $30 for him locally and personally I think he looks great.:D

Joe

[OrionN]

Originally posted by Phisher
Heres mine...
...
Not sure where its from but I paid $30 for him locally and personally I think he looks great.:D

Joe
I think 30 dollars is a steal for this Ultra Crocea. You are lucky to get it so cheap.
Minh