Who uses ozone?

[Tom Berry]

My buddy Brad A does, and I find it hard to argue wth the results.

Who else runs it on their sps tank(s)?

Tom Berry:fish2:

[JB NY]

I do. Water Clarity is amazing with ozone. I only use it a few hours a day and not that much, just enough to keep the water clear. The difference in light penetration when using ozone is phenomenal.

[Brad A.]

Ozone rulez! Need an ORP controller to do it right.

[o2manyfish]

I have had ozone on my tanks for over 15 years. I currently run 500 mg/hr ozone units on both my fish only and SPS system.

I have ORP controllers, but use them just as monitors, not to control.

Dave B

[Tom Berry]

I just ordered the Red Sea 50 mg/hour unit. I've got an Aquacontroller so I can measure and control the ORP.

Tom:fish2:

[Brad A.]

true, I use the orp controller less than I did when I first started using ozone. I guess mine is really more of a monitor as well.

[Aged Salt]

Agree with the opinions above, O3, used correctly, will improve overall tank conditions:) Bob

[kevinn]

What is the ORP reading on you guys tank. I have not install the ozone yet, and my current ORP is 460 (Milwaukee ORP Controller). What is your ORP ?

[Brad A.]

my orp right now is 348, soak your probe in vienigar (sorry for the bad spelling), for 10 mins and then see what your reading is. I have to do this on a weekly basis. I also have checked the orp with a reference solution (I think from DRsfoster) and the probe is right on after cleaning with vinigar.

I really doubt your orp is 460!
Brad

[kevinn]

Thanks Brad, after the vinegar soak the ORP is 334. What kind of ORP controller do you use. I don't know if I can depend on the Milwaukee ORP controller. I am planning to get the Pint Point .

[mhurley]

My ORP floats between 400 and 420 naturally (ACII). I had an ozone generator but never hooked it up because I couldn't see raising it much more.

[JB NY]

Originally posted by mhurley
My ORP floats between 400 and 420 naturally (ACII). I had an ozone generator but never hooked it up because I couldn't see raising it much more.

Try this, run the ozone at a low level, about 0.18gm/hr (this equates to about 40gm/hr on my total water volume of about 225G), this should not bring up the ORP reading at all. Run ozone for 2-3 hours a day. Then in a few days look to see if you notice if the water looks clearer. The difference in clarity should be startling.

[Brad A.]

mhurley,

Get an orp reference solution and check your probe. If the ORP is really 400-420, then I agree there is no point trying to raise it.

Kevinn,
I use the Aquacontroller 2, but I do have to clean the probe every week to get an accurate reading.

[mhurley]

Originally posted by JB NY
Try this, run the ozone at a low level, about 0.18gm/hr (this equates to about 40gm/hr on my total water volume of about 225G), this should not bring up the ORP reading at all. Run ozone for 2-3 hours a day. Then in a few days look to see if you notice if the water looks clearer. The difference in clarity should be startling.

Thanks JB...I just friggin sold my generator!! Literally, mailed it 2 days ago....Where were you with all your bright ideas before?!?!?! :)

Maybe I'll troll around and pick up a cheap one to test it out...

True, I have not recalibrated the probe, however it has had this reading since the beginning.

How do you guys inject it? Through a reactor, into a skimmer???

Mike

[MSHUR]

HI,GUYS
i been thinking about it for a long time..i am lookibng in marinedepot catalog and there is 2 models i see
which one u recomend?
mike

[Brad A.]

MSHUR,

what size tank do you have?

[MSHUR]

i have 140 oceanic

[Leopardshark]

I use ozone in my 300, the water clarity is amazing and lightwaves penetrate better in cristal clear water than in yellow water.
Marco

[Brad A.]

I run my 50 mg/hr red sea ozonizer at 15%. So, I think a 50 mg/hr would be fine. Run it at 25 or 30%. 15% of 50 mg/hr is enough to make the water sparkle. I try to keep the ozone level as low as possible.

Brad

[JB NY]

Originally posted by mhurley
Thanks JB...I just friggin sold my generator!! Literally, mailed it 2 days ago....Where were you with all your bright ideas before?!?!?! :)



Sorry my friend. See, all that trouble you had selling it in the for sale forum was trying to tell you to hold on to it. :lol:

I inject it into the skimmer.

[Leopardshark]

JB, do you use constant carbon?

[MSHUR]

there is a two models aquazone and aquazone plus/deluxe

[JB NY]

Originally posted by Leopardshark
JB, do you use constant carbon?

errr. I don't. :hmm2:

I know I supposed to, but I feel I use it only for a little while (only 2 hours a day) and so little ozone to begin with that the carbon is not really needed. I can not smell ozone at all when I'm using it, even when I am in front of the skimmer.

[Brad A.]

MHSUR,

If you need an ORP probe, get the deluxe, otherwise get the cheaper model.

Brad

[MSHUR]

thankx,brad a.
i was thinking to get orp controler w/probe and cheaper model.
what do u think?

[Leopardshark]

Ok, thanks Joe becuase I do the same thing.
Well, sometimes I like to run about 7-10 mg/rh on a 24/7 basis.
But that is too little I think.
Marco

[Brad A.]

I love the aquacontroller 2 (ACII). I would suggest that you get the ACII and the regular ozonator. The ACII is expensive, but totally worth it in my opinion. (I'm a med student on christmas break, I'm not selling anything!)

Brad

[MSHUR]

what if get pinpoint orp controler w/prob ane cheaper model.would it work?

[Brad A.]

yes

[MSHUR]

how can i conect them together?

[Brad A.]

Plug the ozonator into the orp controller. You will set the controller to turn on and off the ozonator within a set range. For example, turn on if orp <350 turn off if orp over 360. You set the upper and lower limits.

Brad

[MSHUR]

thankx brad

[Brad A.]

No problem, I wish I had an oceanic 140!

[MSHUR]

i just got one...i replace my 85 g tank
so,i am getting a new set up...my friend andrew(montepora) helping me .he keeps mine sps in his tank right now.

[Leopardshark]

oceanic 140? is that a ozonator brand?

[Brad A.]

no aquarium

[MSHUR]

no,thats the brand of my tank oceanic 140rr

[BlAcK_PeRcUlA]

Originally posted by JB NY
errr. I don't. :hmm2:

I know I supposed to, but I feel I use it only for a little while (only 2 hours a day) and so little ozone to begin with that the carbon is not really needed. I can not smell ozone at all when I'm using it, even when I am in front of the skimmer.

What does it smell like? Isn't it just oxygen?

[JB NY]

Do you have a laser printer? You know the scent you smell when it's printing? that's what is smells like.

[victor90]

Hi can you guys tell me the dangers of ozone? I was told it can kill everything in my tank. I have a 90 gallon what would be the correct dosage?
Thanks Vic

[JB NY]

Originally posted by victor90
Hi can you guys tell me the dangers of ozone? I was told it can kill everything in my tank. I have a 90 gallon what would be the correct dosage?
Thanks Vic

Yup that the danger, but so can salt, Kalkwasser, Iodine and lots of other things of dosed incorrectly.

FWIW I have read of many more people killing their tank using kalkwasser than ozone.

[yellowtruck75]

Ozone lovers:
I have an Ozotech 150mg/hr reactor for sale. It is in perfect condition and only used for about six months. I am asking $200 for it, e-mail or PM if you are interested. I love ozone and only selling due to financial reasons.

[Baalz]

I started dosing ozone a few days ago.. so far im at 15% of 200mg/h for 2 hours a day (12pm-2pm)
My orp has climbed slowly from 250 to 280 in about 3 days.
When i first monitored my orp 6 months or more ago it was around 320 at the time.
Now it seems low. I do have a case of cyano/dinos right now

Should I leave my settings be and hope it slowly comes up?
or up my dosage time (or %) to get in the 350ish range?

[Ewan]

Originally posted by BlAcK_PeRcUlA
What does it smell like? Isn't it just oxygen?

Like an overworked photocopier...

E.

[Kitzo]

Excuse my ignorance...but what exactly is the purpose of using Ozone in our tanks.
I checked Dr. Farley's article lists and couldn't find one to read,
Anyone know of a good read?
Thank you,

[Kitzo]

Well,
I just did some research and found out that neither Dr. Shimek nor Dr. Farley recommend its usage.
Some threads:
One. (http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=268429&highlight=ozone)
Two. (http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=203394)
The search. (http://reefcentral.com/forums/search.php?s=&action=showresults&searchid=2235224&sortby=lastpost&sortorder=descending)

I am not trying to start any arguments but would love to hear some input from the pro-ozone camp.
I am open to trying new things to help improve my tank.

[Ocean Image]

Ditto, Kitzo.

I would like for someone to try and sell me ozone :D

At the moment I am border line.

BTW, do you need a controller to dose it?

[Brad A.]

Andy Calfo's book "coral prop" vol 1 has an excellent discussion of the topic. Ozone is not required for a successful reef tank, but, if used properly can enhance protein skimming and increase the clarity of the water. Do some research, those who use ozone dont need to sell you anything.

Also, I dont need Drs shimek and Farley's blessing to use ozone.

[Ewan]

Ozone has been commonly used in marine aquariums since the 80s. It's lost popularity, mainly due to the fact that it is no longer considered 'necessary equipment' as it once was. I've got Magazines from the period that advocate ozone generators as a "must-have"... Wet-dry filters too, for that matter. :D

As mentioned, ozone will enhance skimming and provide a very stable foam production. It is used mainly to keep the water crystal-clear. A monitor is used to make sure that ozone is not overdosed, which can wreak havok in our systems.

That being said, and as someone else previously cited, it would be useful in SPS aquariums because clear water will allow more light to reach to corals.

To be honest, it's really not for everyone. You'll be hard pressed to spark an arguement. It's just another tool that some of us choose to use. Such is a protein skimmer or an ecosystem filter. Both are not necessary for a healthy aquarium, but they offer distinct advantages. Bottom line.



JMHO.

E.

[Ocean Image]

Brad A. Relax Med. man, I did my research. I have read "the reeftank bible" many times. I just wanted to hear the pros from those who use it. Thank you for your responces.

[Brad A.]

Creeper,

Med man?

[Tom Berry]

Creeper,

Ifyou have access to acopy of The Conscientious Marine Aquarist by Robert Fenner you can read what he has to say on pp. 85-88. Here are some highlights:

"Some authors say you must have an ORP monitor and controller attached to each ozonizer. I am not convinced that the average hobbyist needs this level of control. You should never use an ozonizer that can produce dangerous levels of ozone (most hobbyist units won't)"

"Numerous authors cite the need for carbon filtration of water and air exiting an ozone-enhanced skimmer, or even special venting to prevent ozone poisoning of both livestock and hobbyists. These fears are unfounded--provided you are using an ozonizer intended for home aquarium use. Though I would not directly introduce ozone into an aquarium, the little that intended units produce is dissipated quickly when utilized in a skimmer or dispersed in a sump or filter box. The worst consequence of small ozone generators is the increased corrosion of rubber or silicone tubing materials in your system. You, your fishes, and your house will not burn down, I promise.

Ozone's quick chemical degradation of large organic molecules that are responsible for off-color, turbidity, low oxygen, and some toxicities, makes its modest start-up and operational costs pale. If you're even vaguely considering an investment in any sort of meter, doser, denitrator, or ultraviolet sterilizer--stop. First buy and use a small aquarium ozonizer in conjunction with your skimmer. Almost all public aquariums utilize ozone with theirs--you should too"

I'm not sure, but I think he's saying it's a good thing ;) He has lots of experience using ozone in home and commercial systems. Many people who warn against it, have never used it.

I think the real reason it's not more widely used in home aquaria is that it's considered "unnatural". Like keeping reef creatures in a box in your living room is "natural".

All I know is, I like the results I see in Brad's aquarium. His water is amazingly clear, and his sps are doing great. Ozone isn't the only factor, of course, but it does contribute significantly.

Tom Berry:fish2:

[Brad A.]

Tom,

Its so true that our aquariums are not real reefs. There is nothing natural about corals in my living room. I feed my fish a lot of food and I believe this benefits the corals as well as the fish. As such, I like being able to "Skim" the excess nutrients out of the water and ozone greatly helps facilitate removal of organic compounds (as indicated by ORP and dissolved organic level assays performed by me). Also, Tom, I'm excited about the grow in my tank..and that purple tort has turned into a baby blue colored tort and is growing very well. I'm sold on ozone and recommend it for acro dominated tanks. Softies and LPS, I've found do much better in my tanks that don't use o3.
Brad

[Ocean Image]

The Conscientious Marine Aquarist, a great read. I recommend this book to all newbies that I help out.


Sold, I'll guess I can try it in my solely SPS tank (not even any fish) at a very low dosage, then ramp it up as I see fit. I hope that I can confide in you guys in the future for some more info.

Brad...you know, med student = med man. Busting because you (IMO) thought that asking for a users point of view was not research. Thanks for your input...everyone.

[o2manyfish]

I have been using ozone in my salt tanks for over 15 years. I have dosed it directly into the display tank, I have injected it into the skimmer, and also used an expensive and cool looking ozone reaction chamber.

I run a 500 mg/hr ozonizer on each of my systems. They only run at full power and I choose not to use a controller (Both system have Milwaukee ORP controllers, but are used just as monitors)

Ozone is great for water clarity, it's also great for controlling parasites and infections. My outdoor system is currently fighting the winter temperatures to stay warm. Every morning the system is 70deg and every day it rises up to 77deg.

With a daily swing of 7deg both directions I should have ich everywhere. However, I don't. Powder Blue tangs, purple tangs, chevron tangs, flame angels, golden angels, asfur angel, wrasses, gobies, blennies --- not a spot of ich.

If you pump a ton of ozone (100+ mg/hr) of ozone directly into a small tank (40g or less) you could harm the fish (burn the gills).

But back in the day when I had a 40g and a 100g I ran 50mg/hr and 100 mg/hr ozonizers pumping the ozone directly into the tank 24/7 via a wooden air stone without ever having any ill affects.

Not my opinions - Just my experience.

Dave B

[Brad A.]

Creepers,
Don't bust too much, you may not be able to plan anymore projects! But, if you have any more questions about ozone... please ask and I'll tell you what I've observed in my tank.

Consider a small ozonizer..like the 50 mg/hr red sea..maybe 5 mg/hr for the 30 gallon or about 10-15 mg/hr for the future 72 bowfront. I dont run carbon. I haven't been able to detect any ozone by-products in the main tank (via red sea o3 test kit).

Good luck

[Ocean Image]

good to know that their is a test kit for O3. I was unaware. My profile is old. I'm up to 300 gallons now, adding a new 150 in the new year. I just can't get away from it. I love reefkeeping. :D
Actually I like the new knowledge that seems to be constantly available.
I'm not busting too hard Brad. I have some Med Man friends (best friends), so please don't take it personally. You seem like a cool guy, good luck with your career. I really appreciate all of your input.

[Brad A.]

300 gallon...get the bigger ozone model!

I'm mildly obsessed with reefkeeping as well! I love seeing the acros grow.
Let us know how your tank looks after a few days of o3.

[Tom Berry]

Creeper,

I'd like to hear more about your fishless sps tank. How much difference does not having fish make in terms of nutrient export, maintenance, health of sps etc.? Fish are great, but I think keeping sps without them could be a lot easier.

Tom:fish2:

[Ocean Image]

My main reason for wanting to use O3 is this. I do frequent 5 gallon water changes. I use a white bucket. The water always has a slight yellow tint to it. I run carbon and use a lifereef VS2-72 skimmer. I just can't get rid of the yellow. I now think that O3 may be the answer.

I have never had a heavy fish load in an sps tank. At most 3 or four fish in a 150 gallon system stocked with SPS. I have never had luck with fish, but I can't kill SPS!! I must have a coral thumb (and I do a LOT of research before doing anything). IMO, fish are a pain. I like the coral. It is more interesting. From what I read, it may be of some advantage to have some fish to provide a source of nutrients for the coral. Sorry I can't help more.

[victor90]

ok Can you guys tell me what the safe dosage would be. I have a 90 gallon reef tank. I also would like to know if i need to run the return water into a carbon filter.
Thanks

[Brad A.]

Hi victor90,

For a 90 aga, consider about 30 mg/hr piped into the protein skimmer (It doesn't take much at all to get the water clear). Use an ORP controller and shoot for 350. Its a good idea to run your return water through a carbon filter.

As I said before, I dont really look at my ORP or run carbon. The above is the proper way to use O3. I look at my tank and decide if the water needs more O3. Otherwise, I run the lowest amount possible.
Brad

[yellowtruck75]

Any newbie ozone freaks want to buy an Ozotach ozone generator, great shape and almost new :)

[Leopardshark]

Guys, how do you know how much ozone to put into the system?.
I´ve read some books and they all state that if used in the protein skimmer the recommended dosage is 10 mg/hr.
I have a 300 gal sps reef and I´m currently using about 10-12.5 mg/hr 24/7 in my skimmer, but I´m reading that you use bigger amounts of ozone, so how much would you recommend for me and why do you get those numbers?
TIA
Marco

[skeletor]

as an ozone newb I just have to ask if something like this would work ?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2369416567&category=20729

thanks,
-skeletor-

[o2manyfish]

The corona discharge units like that one drop off in their efficiency rather quickly in my experience.

The inside of the reactor chamber corrodes in the salt humid environment around the aquarium. With this type of ozone generator you should look into finding an air drier with it-- Not sure if that will work with this unit since it includes the air pump.

Dave B

[mhurley]

o2manyfish,

I saw those units too and was going to give one a try. I have a double fish room and have the ability to put the unit in different room (plus the fact that I have a fresh air exchanger on my main fish room). Are the corona types only impacted by salty environments or are they just not a good design and the salt makes it worse?

Mike

[mhurley]

Originally posted by skeletor
as an ozone newb I just have to ask if something like this would work ?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2369416567&category=20729

thanks,
-skeletor-

skeletor,
Did you notice where that thing is shipping from??!?!? I just caught that..

[o2manyfish]

Mhurley,

It depends on the design of the ozonizer. The old sanders, you could dissassemble every couple of months and use a wire brush to clean it out and. The Ozotech are a sealed can and not so easy to open and clean.

The one's I now have are the same as the RK2 ozonizers. they work like a spark plug. Anytime you can get electricity to spark and jump a gap, as the electricity jumps through the air, it causes the o2 molecules to become o3. There is no maintenance on these.

They do make a slight buzzing sound. But I wrapped mine in a towel and they are silent now.

Dave B

[skeletor]

yeah, Shanghai, so warranty claims are out the window, but it is cheap and they seem to have good feedback. plus I only want to ozonate a 20gal tank..

-skeletor-

[victor90]

Brad
What will happen if I don't run the return water into carbon?
Has anybody ever tried the red sea or the coral life?
Thanks

[Brad A.]

Victor90,

I used to run carbon (for about 6 months) with the ozone and suppose you probably should, but I don't. I've only run O3 for about 2 years without carbon and nothing bad has happened.

I use the red sea 50mg/hr unit. It works great.

[delphinus]

I have a dumb question about ozone .... if among the benefits is water clarity, is there a need to run carbon as well (for the purpose of polishing the water, that is)?

[victor90]

Brad thats the one I was looking at. Do you have the air dryer too?

[Brad A.]

The humidity is so high in VT that my air dryer is spent in 3 hours. So I dont use it. Its good to have one as it increases the efficiency of the ozonator. I need an electrical air dryer. Last I checked they were like $500 or something crazy like that.

[Brad A.]

delphinus,

Other people might jump in to anwser this question.

I've found no reason to run carbon for the purpose of clearing the water (when running ozone).

[Tom Berry]

The Red Sea units now come with the air dryer.

The best price I found online was at Champion Lighting & Supply: $138.90 for the basic 50 mg/hr unit without ORP controller.

http://www.championlighting.com/e/env/0001drIntIcOoH88A01S8X7/Products/products.html?link=/Products/Ozonizers/ozonizers.html

Tom:fish2:

[Baalz]

Repeating this since it seems to have been missed...

I started dosing ozone a few days ago.. so far im at 15% of 200mg/h for 2 hours a day (12pm-2pm)
My orp has climbed slowly from 250 to 280 in about 3 days.
When i first monitored my orp 6 months or more ago it was around 320 at the time.
Now it seems low. I do have a case of cyano/dinos right now

Should I leave my settings be and hope it slowly comes up?
or up my dosage time (or %) to get in the 350ish range?

[JB NY]

You can if you want. looks like it's slowing coming up when using the ozone anyway. Does the water look any clearer yet?

[Tom Berry]

Baalz,

Is this your 75 or 180? From my research, you could run that dose (30 mg/hr) 24/7 on your 75 without any problem. More on the 180. I would rely on your observations of water quality and the health of your livestock more than the ORP reading. Use the minimum amunt/time that gives you the results you want.

Tom Berry:fish2:

[Baalz]

This is on my 180 with about 30g in sump.
I do notice the skimmer foaming better now. But the jury is still out for me. I am fighting a mild case of dinos and I hope this helps. ORP is at about 300 now. Knowing that my tank usually was at 320ish 6 months ago before i stopped checking orp.. Im hoping.
I have been reluctant to use orp. Im not one to jump on a bandwagon. But I have known some other people that have used ozone for months and have seen improvement in clarity etc.
I believe I got the dinos when i removed a large cap that was infested with nudies. I broke a large chunk of the rock in the process and placed both back into tank. Im assuming the busted rock leeched. Either that.. or my skimmer is the culprit. Air intake to beckett was mostly clogged when i went to tee the ozone tubing into it.

[Tom Berry]

I got my Red Sea Aquazone 50 mg/hr unit Friday evening. I have been running it at 25% (12.5 mg/hr) into my Euroreef 24/7.

Wow! my water is incredibly clear. It was pretty clear before, but now it's almost like it's not there. I can't see any coloration at all looking through the tank lengthways. There is more light getting to my corals, and they are digging it.

I'm looking forward to seeing the effects longer term.

Tom:fish2:

[Brad A.]

Tom,
See, it doesn't take much ozone to clear the water!
You could set the ozonator up on a timer to run for 3-4 hours a day and you'll probably still get very clear water and use less O3.
Brad

[eris8]

Ive been doing the same as Tom on my 90G w/ redsea 100mg/hr unit on about 5-15mg/hr since Friday and water is MUCH clearer in terms of particles floating about. Had pretty good quality before but this is better for sure. I like the timer idea to decrease O3 used and increase life of unit possibly. I am noticing the skimmate produced in EV180 since using O3 has decreased but water clearer so not worried yet....I guess its too early to say.

[Tom Berry]

The clear water is great, but one of the main reasons for using ozone is to increase the efficiency of your skimmer.

I'm trying to starve out some algae, so I am going to continue running it 24/7 unless I see any adverse effects. So far it's nothing but positive.

Tom:fish2:

[Baalz]

Tom.
Thats why i turned to ozone.. damn dino plague.
Iv'e had em and beat em before in my 75g but this is my 180.
Since adding ozone my skimmer is working much better. That and clearing out the air intake of salt helps too :)
right now ive bumped mine up to 6 hrs at 40mg/hr. What would be a safe setting to run this 24/7 on my 220g total water volume? at least for a short time then i can cut it back to a couple hours a day.

[Marco67]

Hey guys thanks for the thread, I'm intrigued!
Ozone is one of those things I've been interested in since reading Anthony Calfos first book. I could use some of each of the benefits we are talking about here. Curious about a couple of things though? .. .. How does it clear the water ? is it killing off planktonic life ? What are the "watch out for's" ?

[Tom Berry]

Baalz,

In the Ozone FAQs on wetwebmedia.com,
Bob Fenner says that a rule of thumb for ozone is 1mg/hr per gallon of tank.

Cut that in half to be safe, and you could run 100 mg/hr without any problems. 40 mg/hr 24/7 on your tank would be very safe.

Tom:fish2:

[Brad A.]

Marco67,

Yes it kills plankton. It probably kills almost every living organism that it comes into contact with.

I believe in feeding the tank (very well) and thus hopefully compensate for O3 removal of plankton.

O3 is extremely unstable and reacts with the yellowing agents in the water. The yellowing agents are chemically modified in a way that facilitates removal my the protein skimmer. I can't remember actual chemical equations right now.

What to watch for, you ask. Well, when I first started running O3, I used larger quanities and sometimes I thought my tank was too clean and I would turn off the O3. By too clean I mean, like no algae anywhere to be seen..the sterile look. Also, I sometimes monitor the ORP and turn off the o3 somewhere around 350 or 400. Really though, now, I run a very small amount and really don't worry about it. This small amount is enough to keep the water sparkling clear...which I like.

[pi]

Yes it kills plankton. It probably kills almost every living organism that it comes into contact with.

This sounds dangerous for folks with DSB's.... Does anyone who uses ozone have a DSB in their tank?

[mhurley]

As a side note, has anyone else noticed an increase of interest in ozone generators in the For Sale forums?...I think this thread is sparking some interest (including my own).

Mike

[Aged Salt]

I've used O3 in my p/dsb without any negative effect on the it's function or viability,Bob

[JB NY]

No problems using ozone with a DSB here.

My tank is literally exploding with life at night, so I'm not worried on the ozone killing too much.

[Brad A.]

pi,
The goal is not to have any O3 (or its radicals) make it into the main display and thus it would have no effect on the animals.

If the inverts, bacteria, protozoa make it into the skimmer...thats a different story. I'm sure the killing capacity of O3 is dependent on concentration and time of exposure...

I too have all sorts of critters swimming around at night.

[Tom Berry]

As a side note, has anyone else noticed an increase of interest in ozone generators in the For Sale forums?...I think this thread is sparking some interest (including my own).

Mike

Hey Brad,

we're starting a revolution! Viva La Ozone!:D

Tom:fish2:

[kevinn]

I am gone start up my ozone next week. Do you guys use carbon on the output of the skimmer.

[Brad A.]

Ozone Rulez! My fish take a dump in my aquarium and I gotta get it out...O3 is like a toliet bowl cleaner...(kust kidding)

[Brad A.]

opps change kust to just! LOL

[Tom Berry]

kevinn,

real men don't use carbon.

I love the smell of [ozone] in the morning!

Robert Duvall Apocalypse Now

Tom:fish2:

[max101101]

I am posting under my brother's name because I cant find how to change it, but I do have a question. Is there any way to run ozone with ecosystem filtration (skimmerless)? if so how would it be injected into the water? also would it be possible to run a cheap generator from an 02 tank and then bypass the need for a dryer?

Derek
Epicentyr

[Brad A.]

I would stay away from O2 tanks and hobbyist ozonators. I know the commercial ozonators use O2 as it increases efficiency of O3 production. I believe some hobbyist ozonators use coronal spark to generate the O3. Sparks and pure O2 dont go well together if you know what I mean.

I dont use an air dryer on my red sea and it seams to work fine. Rea Sea says it decreases the life of the ozonator..oh well. Vermont is too humid!

Use a reaction chamber for the o3...like a chem reactor tube..petsolutions.com has one for about $30. Bubble into the chamber and pipe the outflow through carbon before it enters the main display.
Brad

[ldrhawke]

I use a Red Sea Aqua Zone Plus 100 ozonator with a built in controller. I love it.

When I started using it my ORP readout was down in the 220's. I started doing more water changes to bring it up.

I set it at 350 now and it runs itself turning off and on maintaining 350 mv. I feed it into my PM skimmer. MY whole system, including the skimmer are all run off of one pump. I use a Dolphin Amp 3000. Go to my gallery to get the picture.


The water quality is without question better using ozone. The water gets crystal clear. The coral has never looked better. If the level starts to drop below 350 and takes too long to recover, more than a half day. I know I need to do something to improve my water quality, like a water change.

The ORP meter alone is worth the cost now that I have used it. ORP reading is the best indicator I have for what is happening in my tank. It is also a good prophylactic to keep from spreading disease in the tank amd keeps the odor from the skimate down. I no longer have a fishy smell around my system.

If your discharge is into a sump any ozone carry over is quickly dissipated. Running it through carbon isn't a bad idea as insurance. Ozone oxidizes so quickly it is difficult for it to remain in the water more than seconds. The amount of ozone put out by the system is very low dosages.

It has now become more of a back up system for CPW(controlled plenum wasting), because it keeps my ORP over 350mv, without the need to add ozone.

[Kitzo]

Originally posted by Brad A.
Yes it kills plankton. It probably kills almost every living organism that it comes into contact with.

On this subject, I have many clams and culture and feed live phtyo daily.
Could using Ozone deplet the nutrients the clams receive?

[ldrhawke]

yes....

The feeding procedure is often to shut the skimmer and ozone down for a few hours when you fed. Ozone will kill what is floating around the tank as it goes through the skimmer being fed ozone. Of course your skimmer is also taking it out with or without the ozone being fed.

[Tom Berry]

Ozone users,

Have you seen any tanks, with water as clear as yours, that don't use ozone?

I am curious if this kind of water clarity can be achieved by any other means.

Tom:fish2:

[Brad A.]

Tom,
Carbon use may come close???? I suppose...

[RedEyeReef]

tagging along

[va_reefman]

I have not seen a tank that uses ozone personally but IME with my previous 180g, some time I have a feeling that there were no glass between me and the coral/tank. I was running carbon 24/7 on that tank.

I am hopeing to have the same water clarity with the new 180g. The tank is not doing so bad after 3 weeks from the transfer.

John

[justgettinstarted]

O3 is extremely unstable and reacts with the yellowing agents in the water. The yellowing agents are chemically modified in a way that facilitates removal my the protein skimmer. I can't remember actual chemical equations right now.

Ozone acts as an oxidizing agent... The "yellow agents" in the water are actually DOC's (dissolved organic compounds) and nearly all organic compunds contain carbon carbon double bonds (ex any unsaturated fat... (selcon, omega 3 fatty acids, and so on). The ozone attacks the double bond and breaks is into a smaller chain.. and where there was preciously a double bond there is now a carboxylic acis (-COOH).

The strange thing is.. (and i had a discussion with Randy Holmes-Farley about this) that these new shorter compunds should actually be MORE water soluble and be harder for the skimmer to remove... but they are in actually easier to remove.. the only thing that I can think of is that all these shorter chained DOC's with carboxylic acids on one end can get together and form a mycell (on inverse mycell.. i forget which... the one with the polar heads on the inside) similar to that of a cell wall with all the hydrophobic tails on the outside... and then the skimmer cane easily remove this quasi "grease" or "oil". Thats about the simplest that i can explain it!

LOL

I think when people talk about running carbon.. they mean the the gas exiting the skimmer (after bieng removed of skimmate) is ran through a pad of carbon to break up and remaning ozone. Ozone is a respratory irritant and many people actually die due to ozone exposure every year (due to warm smoggie weather in the summer... "old people when it gets warm")

Garrett

[Tom Berry]

Ozone would be easier and cheaper long term. Unless you feel the need to run carbon on the output of your skimmer. From what I'm gathering, it really isn't necessary.

Tom:fish2:

[AgentSPS]

FWIW I used to run ozone a long time ago (when airstone skimmers were state of the art LOL). It definitely helped increase skimming capability and water clarity. One warning I want to put out there is to make sure you ventilate the room the tank is in. I had the tank running in a bedroom with poor circulation. Ozone is highly reactive and a major irritant to mucus membranes. It was some time before I associated bad sinus headaches with ozone. Upped the ventilation and no more headaches.

[mhurley]

AgentSPS,
So exactly what do I have to do to get a frag of that beauty in your avatar?? :)

Mike

[Brad A.]

Good point. Thats why I try to run the least amount possible. O3 is a great tool, IME, if used properly. I also acknowledge that O3 is not required equipment for a successful aquarium.

A little side note:

Irritation and dryness of the throat occurs at a concentration of 0.1 ppm O3 (10-30 minutes of exposure) (Katzung; Clinical Pharm pg 991).

Thnks for the reminder AgentSPS

[AgentSPS]

Originally posted by mhurley
AgentSPS,
So exactly what do I have to do to get a frag of that beauty in your avatar?? :)

Mike

Hah...well I gave a bunch of frags to www.exoticreefs.us but unfortunately catastrophe happened to the prop tank and they all died. One of the frags was huge too :(
Fortunately this piece grows really fast and I will give more to Tubs to sell when he gets things going again.

[bice0004]

Reading this thread has me intrigued about purchasing a O3 system. However I have a question. Many people advocated an O3 system with a controller and monitor. I don't have either right now. But by reading into everyones use of their O3 system, it seems that a lot of people are not using the controller and monitoring functions. In addition, most people are recommending a very small dose to clear up the water, which shouldn't cause a concern for overdosing. Therefore my question is: are the purchasing of the monitor and controller really worth the extra money? Do you really need these functions?

Thanks
Bice

[Leopardshark]

IME, I have a pinpoint PH meter and if you don´t calibrate it often, you will start to get bad readings.
But I know that when my monitor if reading a ph of 8.5 or 8.6 it really is not that high.
Well, what happens if you have your redox controller connected to the ozonizer and you forget to calibrate it or by any means it goes bad, it will introduce humongous amounts of ozone into the tank.
Do I get myself clear?
Mechanical and electrical stuff tends to go bad, not the case of the biology of our tanks so I preefer to introduce just a little bit of ozone and control it myself rather than letting an electrical device do it.
IMO and IME.
HTH
Marco

[bice0004]

Thanks leopard shark, so if you don't use a controller, what is your dose, and time of addition? Do you just set it low and not worry about it? Also if you buy a 100mg/hr (thinking redsea ones), is there a dial on it to adjust the level below 100mg/hr? Or are you stuck with delivering what the unit's rate is?

[Brad A.]

bice0004,

The red sea machine has a dial on it. Try 10 - 20 mg/hr for 2 days and see how effective that setting is. you have a 75 gallon tank?

[bice0004]

Yes, it will be going on a 75. Thanks for the info, I'll probably get one. Not sure if I need a 50mg/hr or a 100mg/hr. I'm thinking 100mg/hr as I have plans to upgrade my tank in the future to around a 180.

Bice

[victor90]

one person said that you should air out the room well when using ozone. Is this a must evn if i just use 10-=20 mg /hr. Also how do you guys feel its effectiveness against ich.
Thank you

[justgettinstarted]

Originally posted by victor90
one person said that you should air out the room well when using ozone. Is this a must evn if i just use 10-=20 mg /hr. Also how do you guys feel its effectiveness against ich.
Thank you

I doubt that it is necessary to air the room out...

it is reccomended that if you are dosing ozone through your skimmer (beckett) that when the air exits the collection device it goes through some carbon because it will break up the ozone back to oxygen.. and then there is nothing to worrie about... and the carbon only needs to be changes probably once every 2 or 3 months if even that often

[AgentSPS]

Originally posted by victor90
one person said that you should air out the room well when using ozone. Is this a must evn if i just use 10-=20 mg /hr. Also how do you guys feel its effectiveness against ich.
Thank you

I believe I had a Sanders 10-20mg/hr unit. I passively ventilated the room by cracking a window and leaving the door open. Some people are just prone to headaches and this is just one more trigger to avoid. Most people would probably never even detect ozone levels in the air. Definitely not a health risk at the levels we are speaking of. Just wanted to give people a heads up and something to keep in mind if they have a reaction.

[Brad A.]

An idea for those concerned about health risks while running ozone;

I set the my aquacontroller to run the ozone only late at night. It turns off a couple of hours before I get up in the morning. Seems to work very well. I get all the desired effects of O3 in the tank. My concern was based on smelling ozone near the tank (in the living room).

[justgettinstarted]

if you want to be sure that no ozone is getting into your room simply bubble the exiting gas through a solution of potassium iodide... and the chemical will break up the ozone and there you go... this works wonderfully.... this is what we do in the lab... and we use a lot stronger generator that 100mg/h

[pi]

if you want to be sure that no ozone is getting into your room simply bubble the exiting gas through a solution of potassium iodide...


Ahhh, "simply"?

How does the output of the ozonizer feed into the skimmer. I am having a hard time imagining that something that is bubbling soo slowly, will be capable of feeding a large skimmer that is sucking a large amount of air. What am I missing?

[justgettinstarted]

i have a precision marine bullet 1 skimmer... and where the becket injector housing is there is a small hosebarb where you can connect the tubing from the ozonizer... the majority of the air will come from the other valve... but it will also suck in the ozone... lemme try and find a pic! (see the red thing)

http://www.precisionmarine.com/assets/images/db_images/db_Bullet-14.jpg

[victor90]

so what do I do if my skimmer doesn't have that thing?
Thanks

[moonpod]

just hook it straight to the venturi air port. The down side is that it can cause a relative restriction on air flow to your skimmer. That's why on that PM unit there's a separate ozone port from the air valve (similar deal on my MR3).

[grim]

I just picked up a 25mg/hr unit. I'll be hooking it up to the beckett input via a T (MTC HSA skimmer on my sps tank) so I can run the generator on a timer. Unit seems small enough to not cause much harm but still be effective. I'm also throwing on a 16w UV unit too, just for spite.. :)

jb

[justgettinstarted]

sounds good... yea you just need a t if your skimmer doesnt have that

[ldrhawke]

Some additional pluses in using ozone.

1. The odor in the air from the waste collected in the skimmer is gone. You no longer have the periodic fishy smell around your system.

2. Heavens for bid, but we have often read about someones complete system going belly up, due to some sort of crash; ie; pump goes down, power goes out, etc.

Often they start out saying only a few fish or coral died. Then in less than a day all hell breaks lose and they loose nearly everything, from the death spiral that can happen. Something dies in the tank, that is not found our quickly removed, and the aerobic microbe population blooms. The water becomes cloudy and they consume all of the oxygen, causing even more things to die.

If you are feeding ozone, the chance of the microbe population in the water blooming is greatly reduced. Ozone will kill bacteria in the water and keep it from getting cloudy with oxygen consuming bacteria. So, I believe the chance of the oxygern consuming bacteria death spiral being stopped is greatly enchanced if you use ozone. Hopefully I will never have to find out.

As someone already said, yes you can overdose and kill with ozone, but the chance are slime with the small size aquarium ozone units, and assuming you don't put one sized for a 500 g tank on a 50 g tank. The fact is you can kill with every type of additive you put in your tank, including salt, if you over dose.


I use a Red Sea Aqua Zone Plus 100 ozonator with a built in controller. I love it. I set it at 350 amd max feed rate 50, it runs itself, turning off and on, maintaining 350 mv. Even if it didn't turn off no damage would be done. I feed it into my PM skimmer. MY whole system, including the skimmer are all run off of one pump. I use a single Dolphin Amp 3000.

The water quality is without question better using ozone. The water gets crystal clear. The coral has never looked better. If the level starts to drop below 350 and takes too long to recover, more than a half day. I then know I need to do something to improve my water quality, like a water change. The ORP meter is a great barometer.

The ORP meter alone is worth the cost now that I have used it. ORP reading is the best indicator I have for what is happening in my tank. It is also a good prophylactic to keep from spreading disease in the tank.

If your discharge is into a sump any ozone carry over is quickly dissipated. Running it through carbon isn't a bad idea as insurance. but, ozone oxidizes so quickly it is difficult for it to remain in the water more than seconds with the small amount of ozone put out by the system.

Ozone feed has now become more of a back up system for CPW(controlled plenum wasting), because CPW now maintains my ORP over 350mv, and the ozone is normally not running.

[Brad A.]

Nice summary of O3 benefits and use. Someone should post it somewhere for people who have questions on O3 uses. I think there are alot of myths about the dangers of O3. Some are certainly true, but most are very false.

[Marco67]

With one of the benefits being the killing of unwanted bacteria. Would that come with a down side of canceling out some of the positive effects of running a refugium? Like: say killing beneficial plankton and other micro life forms?

Or is the effect of ozone limited to direct contact and the reaction is contained/limited to the skimmer ?

[ldrhawke]

The ozone basically affects the bacteria in the water that it comes in contact with while going through the skimmer, not what is in the substrate or on the live rock. The bacteria that is released into the water from the live rock no affected until it goes through the skimmer.

That is a negative from ozone feed. The fact that ozone kills the bacteria in the water it contacts inside the skimmer means you should probably increase feed to coral, if you feed them separately, even though bacteria is continually being released. This is one of the arguments against using it in an SPS tank.

I shut off my skimmer and ozone feed for a few hours when I am feeding.

If you really over dosed it, it could affect everything, but that is tough to do if you follow the conservative guide lines for feed rates.

[victor90]

So what would you say is ozones effectiveness against ich?
Thanks

[AgentSPS]

Originally posted by victor90
So what would you say is ozones effectiveness against ich?
Thanks


I don't think there is any correlation between ozone and ich (other than improved water quality which would create a less stressful environment for the fish). All the ozone does is increase the charge or 'attraction ability' of each bubble in your skimmer. Therefore it increases skimming efficiency.

If you are having ich problems, I have heard that UV sterilizers work well. Also I have found soaking food in garlic solution works every time.

[moonpod]

The theory of UV or ozone in ich control is similar. You have to get enough UV or ozone contact in the reaction chamber to kill the free floating ich, and enough tank turnover through the chamber to keep the water clear. AgentSPS, ozone is a very powerful oxidizer, and so yes, ozone can zap ich. It's the same mechanism that "improves" the skimmate. There's an article somewhere in advanced aquarists or the like that discusses this and somehow the eventual reasoning leads to ozone is more likely than UV to control an ich breakout, BUT in the end it's prolly better just to have healthy fish and tanks. If you've got ich, IMO it's usualy do to stressors in the tank, bad livestock selection, bad livestock handling, or a combo of the above. There have been several articles recently in advanced aquarist and reefkeeping on the subject of ich.

[AgentSPS]

Originally posted by moonpod
AgentSPS, ozone is a very powerful oxidizer, and so yes, ozone can zap ich. It's the same mechanism that "improves" the skimmate.


Hmmm makes sense but I was under the impression that we are using far too little ozone to zap ich.

[moonpod]

A complete digression but since the dude asked about ich
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2003-10/sp/feature/index.htm
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2003-08/sp/index.htm
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/nov2003/mini1.htm
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/dec2003/mini2.htm

Those are new or relatively new. All kinds of info. Little hard science.

[moonpod]

Originally posted by AgentSPS
Hmmm makes sense but I was under the impression that we are using far too little ozone to zap ich.

Well it sort of depends. I mean for my tank, my orp likes to hover around say 320-350 or so. If I set things to get my orp up to 425, I'll be pumping plenty of ozone into my skimmer. So, if you're just using the ozone at a low rate, intermitently to clarify the water, sure it won't do much more than tickle the trophonts, but if you jack up your orp...

[victor90]

I don't know but I always have problems with ich its not a lot but a few spots but I want to get rid of it competely. I already got a 36 watt custom sealife uv. Agent sps your friends tubs recommended I get a ozone to help with the ich.

[bice0004]

OK, i just got my new 100mg/hr red sea ozonizer. I have a few questions about its use. It says to hook it up to an airpump to force the flow of ozone into the tank. I did this, but I was wondering if I need to control the airflow from the pump with some sort of valve? Also after hooking it up and running it for 2hrs at about 15-20%, the whole floor of the house smells like ozone. This can't be good, and the smell is getting to me. What am I doing wrong? Many of you posted that if used in small amounts, you don't smell it. Well I certainly do. I have it connected to my skimmer through the ozone/Ca Reactor JG fitting. My skimmer is a aquaC EV180. Any thoughts? BTW, i put some carbon in a bag directly under the outflow of my skimmer. I'm not sure how to hook it up, so that I have carbon in line with the skimmer, as I don't want to restrict the outflow of my skimmer.

[Leopardshark]

OK, i just got my new 100mg/hr red sea ozonizer. I have a few questions about its use. It says to hook it up to an airpump to force the flow of ozone into the tank. I did this, but I was wondering if I need to control the airflow from the pump with some sort of valve? Also after hooking it up and running it for 2hrs at about 15-20%, the whole floor of the house smells like ozone. This can't be good, and the smell is getting to me. What am I doing wrong? Many of you posted that if used in small amounts, you don't smell it. Well I certainly do. I have it connected to my skimmer through the ozone/Ca Reactor JG fitting. My skimmer is a aquaC EV180. Any thoughts? BTW, i put some carbon in a bag directly under the outflow of my skimmer. I'm not sure how to hook it up, so that I have carbon in line with the skimmer, as I don't want to restrict the outflow of my skimmer.
Hi, no you should not restrict the air flow from the pump.
The other issue... to be honest I run about double the dose you mention and I can´t smell it.
Have you checked that the valve of your aqua c is clean and clear of salt creep? I mention this because a few days ago I noticed that mine was full of salt creep so the ozone couldn´t go into the skimmer.
Take a look at it and see what happens.
Anyway I think a little ozone in your house won´t kill you.
Marco:D

[bice0004]

I checked the valve and it is clear. However that got me thinking. I'm using clear flexible airline tubing into the john guest fitting instead of the ridgid 1/4" ployethylene tubing. Could the flexible tubing not be making a seal? Also it smells like ozone coming out of my collection chamber. I'm not worried the smell will harm me, but its annoying and won't pass with the wife since our tank is in the living room.

[571958]

Hi Guys, I have my Ozone set to 425 with my ORP controller and since it has bring my ORP from 225 to 425 and even with the Ozone cut-ioff, my ORP has rasie slowly to (lights on)440~460(lights-off) and have since remain at the 440~460 level for the past 1 month. I'm running a Berlin (BB) 120g tank with very low-bioload and I've noticed that my other DSB based tank tend to have lower ORP readings in the mid 300s. Maybe some of the reefers can show your experiences and compare notes.

:rollface:
Max

Originally posted by moonpod
Well it sort of depends. I mean for my tank, my orp likes to hover around say 320-350 or so. If I set things to get my orp up to 425, I'll be pumping plenty of ozone into my skimmer. So, if you're just using the ozone at a low rate, intermitently to clarify the water, sure it won't do much more than tickle the trophonts, but if you jack up your orp...

[Baalz]

bice004,
lay a bag of carbon on top of your collection container. thats probably where is coming from.

[Brad A.]

571958,

Clean the ORP probe with vinegar for 10-15 mins. I have to do this on a weekly basis, otherwise the ORP creeps up and up. I have a reference solution and know that cleaning the probe is essential.

Brad

[victor90]

On the red sea ozonizer is adjustable on the level of ozone right? I have a 90 gallon tank but want to get a 100mg ozonizer since I'll probabbly getting a 240 or 300 gallon tank next summer. I just have to set the ozone low right? I have a euro reef skimmer so how do I connect the two.

[Tom Berry]

I have been running 12.5 mg/hr of ozone 24/7 on my 75 for 10 days. I am very pleased with the results. The water is so amazingly clear.

Once I get the algae starved out, I will probably run less time and/or lower the dosage. I have not seen any negative effects so far.

Tom:fish2:

[bice0004]

Baalz, I think your right, I'm going to try the carbon above the waste container. Thanks

Bice0004

[justgettinstarted]

Bice,

Unless you are using ozone safe tubing and not just straight airline tubing the tubing will get small cracks in it and actually leak out of that... ozone eats the crap out of rubber (in my lab it will destroy a brand new rubber stopper in 1 hour to the point where it desintigrates) so that may also be another problem

[ldrhawke]

Originally posted by 571958
Hi Guys, I have my Ozone set to 425 with my ORP controller and since it has bring my ORP from 225 to 425 and even with the Ozone cut-ioff, my ORP has rasie slowly to (lights on)440~460(lights-off) and have since remain at the 440~460 level for the past 1 month.
Max

Set that probe in vinegar for 10 minutes. You are getting bad readings. I'll bet a buck that your readout drops 100 mv plus points.

[JB NY]

So what's everyone using to check that their ORP reading is correct? Or are you doing that? I was looking into solutions to be used for calibration and had a hard time finding any. Reason I ask is, I actually have two ORP meters and both read different, one about 35mv higher than the other. I looked into buying a cal solution and was able to finally find something but it's about $60 for a soltuion that is stable at 425mv.

[mhurley]

JB,
I just PM'd Brad A because he mentioned a calibration fluid on the previous page of this thread. Curious what he's got.
I looked into the calibration fluids that Randy referenced in his ORP article, but like you said, they're not cheap.

[mhurley]

Jeez...that's freaky...He responded to my PM right as I hit submit.

www.aquaticeco.com

product #7022 ORP calibration solution...470 mv
$19.95....Now that I can do!

Mike

[Brad A.]

www.aquaticeco.com

product #7022 470 mv $16.50

Clean the probe before you stick it in the solution. Or even better, pour some out of the bottle into another contain and place probe into new container so you dont contaminate the stock solution.

Brad

[Brad A.]

hahah opps!

Hope the above helps..

[JB NY]

Ahh that's much better. Thanks much!!

[mhurley]

Originally posted by Brad A.
$16.50


Hmmm...came up 19.95 when I just ordered it.

Mike

[Brad A.]

old catalog I have

[Brad A.]

Another note on using the Reference solution:

Give yourself a range before you declare the probe is bad.

The reference solution is for verification that the probe is accurate.


1) Clean (soak) probe with special probe cleaning solution or vinegar (10-15 mins).

2) Rinse probe with clean water
3) remove excess water from probe
4) Insert probe into reference solution (see above post) and let it sit there for 5-10 mins
5) an exceptabe RANGE for 470 mv reference solution would be something like 450-490 mv (see bottle for exact range)
6)If probe is OUT of range..clean again and go back to step 1
7) If still out of range.....i dont know...get a new probe or look into calibrating the probe...you need other solutions to calibrate. I usually replace the probe after about 1-1.5 years anyhow.

The above is my opinion and is what has worked for me. If a scientist chimes in and says to do it another way...do it, quess.

Brad

[mhurley]

Thanks Brad!!!

Now....let's say my probe is off...Does the Aquacontroller allow you to change the calibration? I've never looked at it because I was told it was self calibrating.

Mike

[ldrhawke]

You can go to all of that trouble and expense to calibrate the ORP meter, but really what do you have when you get done, that you don't have by simply cleaning it in vinegar? Vinegar, which has a pH of about 2.7, does the same thing as the calibration solution from a practical aspect. As long as you get the same reading while it is in the vinegar. it is accomplishing basically the same task.

We all acknowledge that ORP is only a relative number anyway that shows trend in your tank. it will vary from tank to tank, and there is no bad ORP or good ORP reading, you just mainly want it repeatable and as high as possible.

[mhurley]

Because we're obsessed with the numbers!!!! :)
pH, Alk, Calcium, Oxygen....I need accurate numbers!

[ldrhawke]

http://saltaquarium.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?site=http%3A%2F%2Fwetwebmedia.com%2Fmarphysf.htm

Good redox article by Fenner

[Brad A.]

ldrhawke,

No, the vinegar cleans the probe. The calibration fluid is used to check that the probe is accurate. I like to know if the probe is "right on" after I do something like clean it. I've learned over time that the vinegar does not "hurt" the probe. So, I don't test it that often with the reference solution.

I might add--I test the probe on a monthly basis (mostly) and clean the probe with vinegar weekly a must for my tank.

[Brad A.]

Mhurly,

The ACII does allow for calibration, but it requires additional calibration fluids. I have never found it neccessary to "calibrate" the ACII ORP probe. I use the calibration fluid only as a reference for accuraccy. I have thrown a probe away (after about 1-1.5 years of use) because the probe was no longer accurate. ( it was giving wacky readings that were way off).

[ldrhawke]

Originally posted by Brad A.
ldrhawke,

No, the vinegar cleans the probe. The calibration fluid is used to check that the probe is accurate. I like to know if the probe is "right on" after I do something like clean it. I've learned over time that the vinegar does not "hurt" the probe. So, I don't test it that often with the reference solution.

I might add--I test the probe on a monthly basis (mostly) and clean the probe with vinegar weekly a must for my tank.

Question....what is the final reading on the ORP meter while the probe is being cleaned in vinegar.....compared to the reading in the caibration solution? If I remember correctly, I will clean the probe tonight to double check, my reading in the vinegar was around 450mv.

[Brad A.]

ldrhawke,

mine is around 600 and then goes to 450-490 in the reference solution. The ORP of the vinegar would be dependent on the brand/age/vinegar concentration/purity etc...

[ldrhawke]

If my vinegar shows 450mv......I am going to put it a bottle and mark it test solution, and use the $19.95 I just saved, in not buying a bottle of calibration solution, to buy a couple of beers.....:strooper:

If my vinegar reads high, I'm going to dilute it with water until it reads 450mv, and buy a couple of beers anyway.....:rollface:

[Malcolm_C]

I've been reading this post for 30mins, damn! I'm considering adding ozone, but i have a acrylic tank, I heard that ozone destroys acrylic. anyone her have acylic tank? if so how long have you been dosing, and have you seen any issues. I have around 1000 gallons of water voume.

[ldrhawke]

Originally posted by Mad_drama
I've been reading this post for 30mins, damn! I'm considering adding ozone, but i have a acrylic tank, I heard that ozone destroys acrylic. anyone her have acylic tank? if so how long have you been dosing, and have you seen any issues. I have around 1000 gallons of water voume.

If you have enough residual ozone left in the water to affect acrylic, I guarantee all of the life in your tank was snuffed out a long time before the acrylic was affected. With the small amount of ozone from and aquarium ozone generator system, you could never have high enough concentrations of Ozone remaining to affect acrylic.

If you have any residual ozone in the water, you are feeding too much.

When they talk about chemical compatability it is normally regarding long term exposure to high concentrations. PVC and Stainless steel construction is widely used, but at elevated tempertures and high ozone concentrations, even they are not recommended.

I have an acrylic tank and use ozone. Acrylic is fine.

[Malcolm_C]

for my tank size what size ozone should i get? do you have any brand recomendations? i thought i read something about a red sea device, but I don't remeber.

[ldrhawke]

Originally posted by Mad_drama
for my tank size what size ozone should i get? do you have any brand recomendations? i thought i read something about a red sea device, but I don't remeber.



Some place to start.......

http://aquariumpros.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=RSOZD200&Category_Code=OZoz&Product_Count=4

[ldrhawke]

Another site...saved you $40.00

http://www.mtcnet.com/redseafish/main.htm

[Malcolm_C]

they don't mention the size you need for the tank. in the post i read 1mg\hr per gallon was the recomended dosage, I'm not sure i know what that means.

[ldrhawke]

That is normally a max input recommended. I use about 1/2 of that and the controller shuts off the ozone feed once it reaches your set point. On the basis of my feed rates the 200 mg size unit should be able to handle your tank. It may be a little undersized, but that is just being conservative.

You should be feeding it into a skimmer, to improve it's removal efficiency. And sizing is based on the size and through put of your skimmer as much as the size of the tank.

I find it I feed at higer rates, closer to the 1mg per gallon foten talked about, some of coral in my tank appear not to like it as well and do not always open fully. But...that is just my tank.

[schanz]

I can't believe I made it to the end of this thread. I have never really contemplated ozone. Has anyone used it to successfully defeat hair algae? bryopsis?

I have seen ozonizers made for spas & hot tubs. I wonder if these are similar enough? I haven't seen any of these however that had output control.

My skimmer right now is churning out skimmate great guns. I'd have to cut back air to the beckett if it got any better.

[Travis]

What is the difference between a probe and an electrode. A replacement lab grade ORP probe can be purchased for a pinpoint controller for ~$59. However, a replacement redox electrode can be purchased for the red sea controller for $120.

Are these 2 completely different things? Why the difference in price?

[moonpod]

They're the same thing. Not all probes are made equal. There are "standard" and "lab grade". 120 sounds steep to me though. A lab grade ORP from Neptune systems is 80 and they typically have high prices.

[wld1783]

I just put a Red Sea 200 Mg/Hr on my system last week and have been very happy with the results. I set mine around 15% 24/7 to clear up the water. I the water cleared up in two days so I reduced the lighting by removing the center 400 watt Iwiaski. I now have 2 400 watt radiums and 640 watts of VHO (I might have to redo the lighting because I liked the look of a radium/iwiaski mix).

I'm convinced that if used right ozone will improve water clarity thus lowering the amount of light needed. I also hope it will help with a miner dino problem on the sand (I will posts the results in a week).

Bill

[tigerkai]

Hi guys,pls advise!me thinking of buying the red sea aqua zone plus ozonizer for my 100gallons tank.which is enough for me the 50mg/h or the 100mg/h.it is safe to run 24/7?

[Tom Berry]

I am running 12.5 mg/hr 24/7 on my 75, without any problems. Maybe 15-18 for a 100. The 50mg unit should be fine.

Tom:fish2:

[Tom Berry]

From my experience and that of others on this thread and elsewhere, it seems like .1-.25 mg/hr per gallon of tank volume (ie 10-25 mg/hr for a 100g tank) is a good, safe range for a reef tank. So the 50 mg/hr unit should be sufficient for anything up to a 180 IMO.

Tom:fish2:

[victor90]

From your experience would it be safe to not run carbon?
Thanks

[Tom Berry]

I'm not running carbon, and I haven't had any problems.

Tom:fish2:

[Ocean Image]

I'm not sure if it has been discussed yet in this thread, but is anyone concerned about how O3 can cause acrylic to become brittle over time?

[Brad A.]

Creeper,

Someone said they've been using it for x-number of years with no bad effects. I think it would damage animal life before the acrylic.

[Brad A.]

Quote from tom,

From my experience and that of others on this thread and elsewhere, it seems like .1-.25 mg/hr per gallon of tank volume (ie 10-25 mg/hr for a 100g tank) is a good, safe range for a reef tank. So the 50 mg/hr unit should be sufficient for anything up to a 180 IMO.

This is based on the idea of using the least amount possible to achive "Clear and clean" tank water. Some auhors say to use more...but why? germical effects...might be a good reason.

[MATTT]

Is the ozone the same as the ultraviolet sterilizer ? What would is the difference between the two ?

Thanks,

Mattt.

[skeletor]

ok, I got another stupid question:

is there any value in running ozone through your make up water ?

thanks,
-skeletor-

[mhurley]

oooook....There's value in cleaning the ORP probe once and a while...Just soaked mine in vinegar for about 15 minutes...brushed off the bulb and voila....My tank used to run at 420 or 430...Now it reads 350.
I guess I do have some room to add some ozone here....

Mike

[Aged Salt]

Running O3 thru the skimmer at higher levels[>30%] decreases the efficency of the skimmer & therefore over time would be less effective in removing waste,Bob

[ldrhawke]

Originally posted by Aged Salt
Running O3 thru the skimmer at higher levels[>30%] decreases the efficency of the skimmer & therefore over time would be less effective in removing waste,Bob

Interesting comment......I have always read it increased the efficiency of a skimmer and produces a drier foam. Why do you feel the opposite?

What I have wondered is if O3 increases nitrates in the water column? Compared to the normal nitrification cycle taking place on the live rock or in the substrate, and O3's ability to oxidzed ammonia and nitrites in the water column.

[Brad A.]

Dont run more than 30%...Sounds good to me. I only want the O3 to enhance water clarity. 30% O3 is a lot!

[Aged Salt]

IdrHawke, it's all in the skimmer bubble formation. The use of O3 will result in a slight increase in NO3-,Bob

[npaden]

Well, after running my poll and getting an overwhelming yes you should buy and ozonizer I think I'm going to buy one. Reading through this thread I had a couple questions.

I've heard both sides to the enhanced skimmer performance too. I guess if you put to much ozone in it knocks the bubbles down but if you just put the right amount in it helps?

I would think it would be more of a X mg/h based on the flow through the skimmer rather than 30%? 30% of a 50mg/h unit on a large beckett skimmer would be alot different than 30% of a 200mg/h unit on a AquaC Urchin.

I am going to be running a 200mg/h unit on a custom Euroreef 12-2.5 skimmer with 2 - Sedra 9000s running it. Any suggestions on the best amount to run to make the skimmer run at maximum efficiency? I also am planning on buying a controller to limit the tank ORP to a level around 350 or so. Would it be better to run a unit 24/7 at a lower output or run it for just a few hours a day full out?

Thanks, Nathan

[Brad A.]

npaden,

Try 75 mg/hr at first and adjust up based on your observations and ORP. The real anwser to your question is...you'll have to experiment and figure out what is best for your tank.

Sometimes I run 24/7, sometimes I dont. I have no reason/evidence to suggest one way is better than the other. I just want sparkling, clear water.

Just experiment and see what works best for your tank.

Good luck, I think you'll be pleased with the results.
Brad

[ldrhawke]

The amount of ozone you need to feed will vary with a number of factors,i.e; the organic load in the water, the efficiency of the skimmer, the flow rate, etc. All of these thing will determine how much is spent and the amount carried over unused. If one person has a very efficient fine bubble long contact time skimmer, they can feed more ozone safely than a person with an inefficient small skimmer.

For the most part, if you buy an ozonator that has a ORP controller integrated, that problem is addressed. As the ORP reaches a set point the ozone feed is shut off.

Of course if you buy a very large ozonator and if you feed so much ozone that you get a large carry over of unspent ozone, there is some danger of it reaching the coral or the fish and doing damage. I don't believe that danger point can be reached if you base the maximum sizing of the ozonator on 1mg/gallon or less.

I have a 100 mg Red Sea on a 60 g system. I have set it at max for several days and seen no damage. I run it at about 25 mg feed and the ORP controller cycles on/off, until water quality gets very poor. Then it will take longer and longer to cycle on/off. It is my indication I should be making a water change, or in my case were I use CPW, I need to increase the wasting rate.

[RedEyeReef]

Originally posted by Creeper
I'm not sure if it has been discussed yet in this thread, but is anyone concerned about how O3 can cause acrylic to become brittle over time?

When you say the O3 can make acrylic brittle, do you mean the skimmer that the O3 is being used in brittle or your acrylic tank brittle? I would hate for my 360 gal reef to become brittle and crack someday. Can O3 make your acrylic tank brittle? or did I misunderstand something?

[Brad A.]

There should be no Ozone in the tank!

If there is your animals will die.

[mhurley]

I just started running my ozone 2 days ago. 80 mg/hr for 3 hours injecting into my skimmer ~450 gallons of system water). Luckily I have a fish room that has it's own ventilation system directly out of the house, however I stepped in there while the unit was running and did notice that ozone smell in there. Not terribly strong, but definitely knew what it was.

Is this bad? Am I doing something wrong?

Thanks,
Mike

[o2manyfish]

Ozone won't affect acrylic, it will affect rubber parts.

Things like the tubing for the venturi on your skimmer, the o-rings around your skimmer that come in contact. Those things will go bad. You have to use special ozone resistant tubing.

My tanks are 13 years old, and 9 years old and have ozone in them. My skimmer in my reef is about 16 years old and had the ozone pumped into it since day one with no ill effects.

But airline tubing, and power cord insulation around the skimmer do go bad in about 3-5 years.

Dave B

[Brad A.]

mhurley,

Try venting the skimmer outflow through some carbon, and any air exhaust from the skimmer.


Or, turn down the O3. O3 is a respiratory irritant.

brad

[RedEyeReef]

Originally posted by o2manyfish
Ozone won't affect acrylic, it will affect rubber parts.

But airline tubing, and power cord insulation around the skimmer do go bad in about 3-5 years.

Dave B

So does that mean submersible pump cords deteriorate and the electrical wires can be exposed in the water? or is that the extreme case? And when you say around the skimmer, any rule of thumb about how far away from the skimmer meaning any power cords in the sump will be affected? Like my 3 heaters also?

[o2manyfish]

RedEye,

Yes the cords will become brittle and split and expose the wiring, this usually leads to the heart jumping smell of smoldering in your tank room.

Fortunately flames only seem to appear when you try to pull on the cord from unplugging it.

Heater cords are just as at risk.

Dave B

[mhurley]

Originally posted by Brad A.
mhurley,

Try venting the skimmer outflow through some carbon, and any air exhaust from the skimmer.


Or, turn down the O3. O3 is a respiratory irritant.

brad

Easy to do....Add a little carbon to the skimmer waste cup...

As to turning it down, would cutting it to 40 mg/hr and running for 6 hours accomplish the same thing? Logically it would, but will that lessen the smell potentially? I could do this much easier rather than fabricate a carbon chamber...

Also...What exactly is "Ozone safe tubing"? What is special about it and how do I recognize it from other tubing? Any suggestions on where to get some locally?
Thanks,
Mike

[Leopardshark]

ozone safe tubing is made of neoprene.
It is a black kink of "rubber"
Marco

[RedEyeReef]

Originally posted by o2manyfish
RedEye,

Yes the cords will become brittle and split and expose the wiring, this usually leads to the heart jumping smell of smoldering in your tank room.

Fortunately flames only seem to appear when you try to pull on the cord from unplugging it.

Heater cords are just as at risk.

Dave B

Well I was all ready to buy a Red Sea Ozone unit before I heard that. How did you set up your system to prevent cords from getting destroyed and a smoldering tank?

Is all the water in your system going to have O3 cord eating capabilities or just the water in close proximity to the skimmer being injected with O3? and if so, how far away do your cords need to safely be?

[Brad A.]

mhurley,

Common air tubing will crack and release O3 into the room. That might contributing to the O3 smell.

Also, just experiment with turning the O3 to 40mg/hr and see if you get the desired effects...like...super clear water.

brad

[mhurley]

Originally posted by Brad A.
mhurley,

Common air tubing will crack and release O3 into the room. That might contributing to the O3 smell.



Will it crack immediately or will that degradation take a little time? This was new tubing (until I can get ozone safe stuff).

Mike

[Brad A.]

Not sure how fast the cracking occurs?

Let us know your results (like water clarity) of O3 use.

Brad

[Aged Salt]

With airline tubing, cracking will take awhile depending on O3 conc.that one has set. Generally, you're safe for a few mos. before deterioration occurs & altho I agree with Dave B. on cord deterioration, forunately, I've never seen it in my 20yrs.of using O3,Bob

[o2manyfish]

The Airline tubing that is ozone safe has a green tint and is silicone based I think. It is very very soft.

As for eating through the rubber cords, My turboflotor skimmer dumps its effluent onto the pump - So it eats through cords faster.

My Oceanic Plus, the effulent dumps opposite the eheim pump - So in the 14 years I used it I replaced the eheim pump twice.

The Turboflotor uses a RIO pump. In the 9 years I have been using that skimmer I have replaced the needle wheel twice - It gets the most ozone interaction. I have also gone through about 3 pumps due to the cords disintegrating.

There is a Mag pump that runs the fluidized bed on the same tank with the turboflotor. That pump has been replaced about 4 times.

On My Euro-Reef Skimmer which has been running a year with the 500mg/hr ozonizer I have replaced the needle wheel once already.

As for the electric cords just check them by squeezing them when you do your monthly maintenance (or quarterly maintenance if your like me). Everycouple of years they will crack and you can replace them.

Dave B

[Aged Salt]

Dave, I now can see why you've gone thru the pump cords,Bob

[RedEyeReef]

Originally posted by o2manyfish


As for the electric cords just check them by squeezing them when you do your monthly maintenance (or quarterly maintenance if your like me). Everycouple of years they will crack and you can replace them.

Dave B

Have you ever been shocked by cord detrioration? That Water and Electricity thing???

How far away do cords have to be before they are safe from O3? If I use O3 in my sump, would the cords of my Tunze Turbelle Streams located in my reef be at risk? With 3 Tunze pumps, they are a little pricey to replace because of cord detrioration.

[dgasmd]

Well, I sat here for close to an hour reading every page and post. Very interesting and convincing.

I will give this a try. Although I am reluctant to pay for an aquarium unit when you can buy some of the hottub/jacuzzi units really cheap in ebay. I will pump it through my skimmer and see what happens. I don't have an ORP meter or controller, but since I am going to dose this in the low side of things, I may start without one for now. Given the bioload and feeding to my tank, I highly doubt I will get my ORP to 400 anytime soon.

[o2manyfish]

Redeye,

The ozone only affects the rubber in the immediate vicinity. Ozone is super unstable, so by the time it gets to your tank it's gone.

On my 125 reef, the cords to the recirculating pumps in the stand next to the sump, split after about 10 years. But since they are not in contact with the water I just left them alone. And yet the powerstrips inside the stand are fine.

As for getting shocked.....Uh Ya, I have had aquariums for over 25 years, I have been shocked by most almost all means and contraptions related to aquariums. Heaters, Lights, Pumps, Ozonizers, UV, Air Pumps, Skimmers... If it plugs in, it has curled my hair at some point in time.

Dave B

[Tom Berry]

This is sounding like an advertisement for using a GFI.

Tom:fish:

[o2manyfish]

I don't put much faith in GFI's

They will do a great job of shutting down some shorts.

But when you get smoldering electrical fires, the GFI has never tripped on me.

I recently had a pump smoldering and flaming.... It was plugged into a power strip with a circuit breaker, the power strip was plugged into a switched panel with a GFI, the switched panel was plugged into a GFI on the wall, and the wall was connected to a functioning circuit breaker.

All that and not a thing popped or shut of while the pump smoldered and flamed.

All the outlets for the tanks are GFI. All the custom panels I buillt are GFI. And I still get buzzed on a regular basis.

Dave B


Dave B

[Tom Berry]

That makes me feel good :(

Tom:fish2:

[RedEyeReef]

Originally posted by o2manyfish
I don't put much faith in GFI's

They will do a great job of shutting down some shorts.

But when you get smoldering electrical fires, the GFI has never tripped on me.

I recently had a pump smoldering and flaming.... It was plugged into a power strip with a circuit breaker, the power strip was plugged into a switched panel with a GFI, the switched panel was plugged into a GFI on the wall, and the wall was connected to a functioning circuit breaker.

All that and not a thing popped or shut of while the pump smoldered and flamed.

All the outlets for the tanks are GFI. All the custom panels I buillt are GFI. And I still get buzzed on a regular basis.

Dave B


Dave B

Dave, are you OK with this??? Using O3 when it is causing fires in your reef??? Fire and electricity/water scares the (you know what) out of me when it comes to my reef and my house.

Will running your water exiting the skimmer (that O3 is injected) through carbon (or anything else) takes the O3 out so is does not eat electrical cords? I was ready to add O3 to my system before learning this fact.

Does anyone else have this issue with O3 eating cords in their reef??? and what about the rubber seal for bulkheads???

Can others please comment on their systems with O3 and their rubber gaskets and cords being eaten by O3?

Dave... you are crazy. One flame in my reef and the O3 would be out of there.

[Brad A.]

O3 does not equal fires! We have to replace equipment when its damaged or worn out regardless of the source.

I've run O3 for a few years and have not had any fires and have only been shocked twice since 1989.

I havent observed O3 eating electrical cords but I have no doubts that it may. I believe I've had plastic tubes (with O3 in them) crack.

[o2manyfish]

Red Eye,

Your mixing Water, Salt and Electricity -- Even without Ozone these three are very corrosive.

In time almost anything on a reef aquarium will fail.

The positives of Ozone outweigh the risks.

If I removed everything from my tank that had the potential to flame and smolder my tank would not be very successful. The following is a list of items that over the years have failed and caused electrical shorts, smolders or flames. In 15 years of my reef, I have used the fire extinguisher only once.... Boy did that make a mess.

Heaters (All makes)
GFI's
Extension Cords
Power Strips
T5 fixtures
LifeGaurd Pumps
Little Giant Pumps
Mag Pumps
Hagen Power heads
Ranco ETC controller
Ozonizers themselves
UV Units
Flourescent bulb end caps (waterproof and non)

There is a risk in this hobby. These items that failed are not rusty and salt encrusted... Recently (Last week) the connector inside my Ranco ETC (9month old) smoldered and melted with minor flames. This unit was several feet from any water or salt.

I have not had a problem with Ozone and my tank bulkheads.

Dave B

[Brad A.]

Oh wait, I had a RIO explode (no O3 involved!)

RIO's are a can of worms....closing can back up now!

[RedEyeReef]

So will running the skimmer exit water threw carbon take out ozone and keep cords and rubber gaskets from cracking? And any experience with bulkhead gaskets being effected by ozone?

[o2manyfish]

Redeye,

Carbon works for removing some of the odor. But because Ozone is so unstable you can run the skimmer exit water through a cup of gravel and that is enough to break apart the o3 bond and remove the excess ozone.

Dave B

[JB NY]

Originally posted by RedEyeReef
So will running the skimmer exit water threw carbon take out ozone and keep cords and rubber gaskets from cracking? And any experience with bulkhead gaskets being effected by ozone?

I've had no problem with any of the above in the two years I've been using ozone. Even the normal non ozone safe tubing I use from the ozone generator to the skimmer is only a little in need of being replaced.

[RedEyeReef]

Brad A. and Dave B. Thank you both for this info. I've had two Rio’s fail, one did have smoke coming out of the water and needless to say I don't use Rio's now. And once because of lack of proper drip loops and an overflowing back filter I had some smoldering from a power strip that should of been located better. That is all in over 20 years of have saltwater tanks. I am very careful with the possibility of fire from my reef or for getting shocked and I do agree that saltwater is corrosive. And once I did get shocked from dropping a light in my reef while cleaning it and my reflex to grab the light landed me on the floor clutching my heart. Not fun.

Since you two have a lot of experience with ozone, I am redesigning my sumps right now and plan on having two separate sumps. One of the sumps containing ozone being ran threw a skimmer. What can I do to get out as much ozone as possible to prevent, as much as possible, ozone from getting to my power cords in the other sump?

Thank you both for your time and experience.

[o2manyfish]

Red eye,

You don't need 2 separate sumps. If you can configure your skimmer effluent to dump over a container of gravel, you will knock out most of the excess ozone.

Also if you goto a local computer store and try to fine a 4 to 6" 220v computer fan. Then hook it up to 110. Direct the flow from the fan at your skimmer. It will silently circulate the and prevent the build up of ozone in the sump area.

And just make sure that the skimmer effluent does not fall onto any equipment. Because of the size of my sump the skimmer dumps water onto it's own pumps and that of my fluidized bed. So the 3 pumps are constantly bathed in heavily ozonated water.

Dave B

[RedEyeReef]

Dave B, thank you for that explanation of your sump. I feel better now. Before when I was reading your list of dead equipment, I was concerned about the number of pumps/cords you went through. The only thing I can think of having to replace besides all my Rio pumps, is maybe a Maxi Jet that was 10 years old.

I am interested in hearing more reefers experiences on using ozone?

[RedEyeReef]

Oh another question, what about vinyl/flex tubing between sumps? Will ozone make this brittle of crack?

[o2manyfish]

RedEye,

Not that it makes much of a difference, but I use lots of RIO pumps. RIO gets a bad rep cause there are so many more of them sold than other pumps. However, in time pretty much everything fails -- although I have yet to burn up an Iwaki pump - But as loud as they are brand new, who cares.

Dave B

[npaden]

Off topic but the issue isn't whether the Rio pumps fail more or less frequently than other pumps, it is how the Rios fail. In a cloud of smoke and an oil slick in the water. Other pumps fail just as often but without the catastrophic qualities of a Rio failure. There are just to many instances of a Rio failing and taking out the entire tank for most people to take any chance with them.

FWIW, Nathan

[o2manyfish]

Npaden,

When anything starts to spark and smolder at the water level it creates a black oily residue. This is just one of the effects of burning plastic. It is not limited to any manufacturer. It's a result of plastic buring in or under the water. I have seen the same thing happen with several different pumps.

Dave B

[Brad A.]

Sorry to mention the Rio's. It like saying "Instant Ocean is the best salt"!! A battle will ensue. I personally think Rio pumps should be banned..but thats another thread.

[RedEyeReef]

Originally posted by RedEyeReef
Oh another question, what about vinyl/flex tubing between sumps? Will ozone make this brittle of crack?

Anyone on vinyl/flex tubing on ozone?

[Brad A.]

RedEye,

It will be okay.

[JB NY]

Originally posted by RedEyeReef
Anyone on vinyl/flex tubing on ozone?

I have vinyl tubing on my overflows, returns, chiller lines and on my refugia. No problems. I try to replace them every 1 - 1 1/2 years just because they get too much crud in them. But they were in fine condition last time I changed some of the tubing, about three months ago(this was after about 1.5 years of using ozone daily).

[grim]

If you have residual ozone in your sump and running through your return lines you will have a much more serious problem than brittle hoses. Run the ozone through your skimmer and run the skimmer effluent through carbon. Unless you are trying to single handedly replace the ozone layer, you shouldn't have a problem.

jb

[RedEyeReef]

Originally posted by grim
If you have residual ozone in your sump and running through your return lines you will have a much more serious problem than brittle hoses. Run the ozone through your skimmer and run the skimmer effluent through carbon. Unless you are trying to single handedly replace the ozone layer, you shouldn't have a problem.

jb

Thanks for the look at the big picture and thank you for the good laugh from your last line.

[mhurley]

I've had my ozone running for 4 days now and I think the results are good. My water seems to have cleared up a bit so I think I'm sold! A couple questions/issues though:

1. Ozone is running for 3 hours each day though my skimmer. Oddly enough, during those 3 hours, my xenia close up tight. All the other livestock in the tank is fine and doesn't seem bothered..Just a strange observation since no ozone should be getting to the tank, I don't know what to attribute it to.

2. I bought some ORP calibration fluid (470 mv) to check my probes accuracy. Prior to the test, tank was reading 430, then I cleaned the probe with vinegar, it read 350 for a few days. Plopped it in the calibration fluid, it reads 435. Take it out of the fluid, rinse it off, put back in tank and now it's showing 305. ***???

3. I might try and pick up one of those cheap ozone generators off Ebay that generate between 200-300 mg/hr, not adjustable. Is it even worth it to run at that high amount for a shorter period of time?

Thanks!
Mike

[Brad A.]

Did you let the probe soak for 10-15 min?
I think everything is fine. My ORP probe has to be cleaned on a weekly basis. I've found that a 10-15 min vinegar soak then frsh h20 rinse is all that is necessary.

Once you check that the orp is working properly, there is no need to keep checking it with the reference solution. It will drive you crazy. Most of us are not using high quality probes! Rather cheapo probes compared to high lab grade and MAINTAINED probes.

Hope this helps, dont make the ORP reading more than it is..or rather, dont live and die by it...its just a useful guide.

Let me know if this helps or confuses things.
Brad

[Aged Salt]

Mike, I run a RS O3er 100 continuously @ 12%. Hi conc. are not only risky for the reef but actually decrease skimmer efficiency,Bob

[Armando]

Because of this thread I HAD to order an ozonizer. It's all your guys fault :lol:

[ldrhawke]

Originally posted by mhurley
I've had my ozone running for 4 days now and I think the results are good. My water seems to have cleared up a bit so I think I'm sold! A couple questions/issues though:

1. Ozone is running for 3 hours each day though my skimmer. Oddly enough, during those 3 hours, my xenia close up tight. All the other livestock in the tank is fine and doesn't seem bothered..Just a strange observation since no ozone should be getting to the tank, I don't know what to attribute it to.

2. I bought some ORP calibration fluid (470 mv) to check my probes accuracy. Prior to the test, tank was reading 430, then I cleaned the probe with vinegar, it read 350 for a few days. Plopped it in the calibration fluid, it reads 435. Take it out of the fluid, rinse it off, put back in tank and now it's showing 305. ***???

3. I might try and pick up one of those cheap ozone generators off Ebay that generate between 200-300 mg/hr, not adjustable. Is it even worth it to run at that high amount for a shorter period of time?

Thanks!
Mike

The ozone feed rate will be different for everyone's system. Keep in mind what you are trying to do and what you do not want to do.

1. You want to feed ozone to improve water quality but not degrade conditions for the coral by feeding too much and leaving a residual of ozone in the water.

2. The amount you feed will vary based upon the amount of organic material the ozone has available to react with.

3. The maximum amount of ozone feed will also depend upon the efficiency of it dispersion.

A highly efficient fine bubble long contact time skimmer will be able to have a higher ozone feed rate because it will give a higher efficiency gas dispersion contacting and it will leave less residual in the water discharged.

Keeping the above in mind, you have already answered one of your questions by the fact that your xenia close up. You already have too high a carry over of ozone into the tank that is causing this.

You are always better off feeding at low feed rates over 24 hours than trying to heavily dose ozone in a short span of time, for the above reasons.

The ideal dozing is no ozone smell around the tank and you xenia remaining open. They are telling you you are feeding too much. They are a better visual controller than your ORP meter. : ;)

Feed at low rates over 24 hours and get a high quality skimmer to feed into to get the best results. I would not buy a spa ozonator to heavily dose with. You can kill everything in your tank.


Just because a little ozone is good does not mean a lot of ozone is better. Infact, it is just the opposite with ozone.....:eek1:

[mhurley]

Originally posted by Brad A.
Did you let the probe soak for 10-15 min?

Yep....then rinsed in RO water.

I was just confused that the numbers are all over the place. I don't plan on checking this constantly, just wanted to get a reference point to start with.

And this is a lab grade ORP probe from Neptune...Hmm....I have a spare non-lab grade maybe I'll throw on and see what it says.

Thanks,
Mike

[mhurley]

Originally posted by ldrhawke


Feed at low rates over 24 hours and get a high quality skimmer to feed into to get the best results. I would not buy a spa ozonator to heavily dose with. You can kill everything in your tank.


I've got an MR-3 skimmer, so I'm preety good in the high contact time. :)

Thanks for the feedback about the xenia, glad I asked. Now I need to find a smaller unit and dose low amounts over the day.

Mike

[koijoy]

about ORP calibration of ORP probes
IT CAN DRIVE YOU CRAZY

The calibration fluid is just that to calibrate the probe to the monitor. But some controllers are calibrated using ph fluid to cal the ORP probes.

Once a probe is cleaned you should use the calibration fluid to set the monitor to the probe.

Neptune controlers use ph fluid to cal their ORP probes and you should use the directions that come with the monitor to cal it.

you can use the 470mv ( I use Hanna brand ) fluid as a referance but doing so the ph and the temp probe must also be in the same fluid to make all = to check the cal it then should be close to the 470mv. Also the fluid has a 470mv referance temp at 77 so any temp above or below the temp will show a cal slightly off.

With most monitors once the cal is set it shoud not loose cal unless there is a power outage to the monitor which may cause a loss of calibration. you then should again use the referance to see if cal was lost if so recal it

If a probe will no longer cal or hold cal replace it

You can also use a mixture of 1 part bleach to 5 parts water to soak the probe in. I have also used a soft tooth brush and liquid hand soap to remove scum off the probe without harm. Rinse the probe well in DI water before putting it back into the tank water.

Lab grade probes are quicker to react once placed in the water but are not as good in dirty water like fish tanks and ponds. low grade dubble junction probes are slow to settle down and can take a few hours before they give a good steady reading but are better in dirty water like fish tanks and ponds.

Koijoy

[mhurley]

I'm not trying to calibrate it, as you said, I just want a reference point of accuracy.

Now....I'm curious about the ORP and pH probes being put in the 470 solution...I didn't do that, what is the purpose of that? Does this have to do with enabling the pH compensation on the ORP problem within the AquaController? (don't have that on, not sure what it does).

The neptune instructions do reference using the pH calibration fluid mixed with quinine (I think) to actually do a calibration.

The stuff I have is from Aquatic Ecosystems (not sure of the brand name, but it's labratory grade stuff), it is at room temperature so might be a few degrees cooler than 77.