what phosphate remover are you using?

[Gary Majchrzak]

I've seen recommendations to avoid Aluminum {white} based Phosphate removers. This is after I purchased some- but I am having good results with it. No corals have shown negative behavior, not even big 'softies'. Has anyone used any of the 'red' Iron based phosphate removers? Have you really noticed a difference in the results?

[drtango]

Sprungs phos-ban, run "low flow" in a fluidized reactor, works great, took my low PO4 level to unmeasurable in about a week with noticable reduction in some nuisance algae.

A must, IMO, for those of us with senescent sand beds!

JT

[ri]

Sometime in late 2002, I had an algae problem and though phosphate removal may aid in the reduction of the hair algae. It did not take long for my leathers to close up and look bad. A call to the Kent tech department reassured me the condition was only temporary and I could continue using the product as directed. I pulled the phosphate sponge from the tank and cannot bring myself to trying it again. (BTW, the leathers did quickly recover.)

The label states the product is "a ceramic medium" and it "will not release soluble aluminum compounds into your aquarium"

ri

[Gary Majchrzak]

Thanks for the replies. I believe I'm going to run a phosphate remover on a continual basis along with replacing my DSB. Results are looking too good to ignore. I'm using the stuff 'passively', FWIW- just a bag of it sitting in a high flow area of my sump.

[jimmer]

will using a phosphate remover kill off alges in the refugium?

[Aged Salt]

Gary, when I used alumina po4- remover in my SPS tank, I also did not see any negative results--notice that Mojoreef use Po4-[Proline, I believe] with obviously good results. IME, Al-Po4- media is exhausted quickly in 1-3 d depending on the amt of phosphate within the system,Bob

[Gary Majchrzak]

Thanks for your input, Aged Salt. I value it immensely .

[Loudz34]

what brand are you using gary?

[Gary Majchrzak]

So far it's all been white stuff.;)

[Tom Berry]

Take a look at this.

http://www.aqua-medic.com/products/filtermedia/antiphos.shtml

http://www.aqua-medic.com/products/filtercomponents/phosphatefilter.shtml

I did a little research, and found the problem with most phosphate removal medias is that they contain aluminum or iron and can leach it into the aquarium. This uses zeolites, like the the Zeovit products people are using in Germany, and is not supposed to leach anything.

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=83061&highlight=Antiphos

The Phosphate filter comes with 1000 ml of Antiphos. You can get it here:

http://www.championlighting.com/e/env/0001yTfaOgclJ9MmA49V7L9/Products/Filters/filters.html?link=/Products/Filters/misc.html

I'm thinking of trying it.

Tom Berry:fish2:

[Aged Salt]

Tom, in the past I have used both products in my SPS systems. I used them at different times & noticed no differences in the SPS's. Both work for a short period of time. I'm currently running Rowaphos thru the antiphos filter,Bob

[becon776]

The phosguard and all Al based products would not leeech Al into the water. Unless you tank is very very very sick. It is basic chemistry. Although I am too busy to get my analytical book out of the basement I can offer a basic explanation.

Think of your Ca reactors. Inside the rxn chamber the water is being pushed down to very low pH's. Al is the same. At low pH the Al will begin to leech into the water. We are talking like 4-5.0 Noone I know of could ever get a reef tank down to that nor would they want to.
To tell you a story.... I worked in the ADK mtns on some lake restorations. These people were pumping the raw sewage into the lake. O.k. when there are 5 cabins on a lake. But late 70's early 80's = economic boom and people have got $ to buy land and cottages all the suddent that turned to like 50 cottages. So... still pumping sewage in the lake. Wham phosphorus spike and bam! Enormous cyanno blooms on these peoples little ex-pristine piece of very expensive property. Enter, ADK park ageny, and EPA. Now they literally dumped Al based phosphorus removers into the lakes. Phos lowered and now treating waste from cottages, algae gone everyones happy. fast forward...... enter the elimination of all buffering capacity by way of acid precipitation and natural leeching of tannic acid from the evergreens. pH of the lakes drops suddenly and sharply. Low and behold now fish are starting to show edema (found the book) reduced gill atpase activity that "reduces active transport of Na, Cl into plasma from water". By the way the magic number (or negative log rather) is pH = 5 before the Al will start to leech into the water. DEC's answer = lime the lakes. Basically just a large dose of kalkwasser. In the end things still aren't right. So moral of the story don't return the water from your Ca reactor anywhere Near where you have the phosphorus remover placed. Otherwise there is really NO WAY that it would leech Al into the water. JMHO
keep on swimming,
Ben
p.s. I gotta go get some PO4 remover also. I can't really comment on which sucks more phosphorus.

[becon776]

Originally posted by jimmer
will using a phosphate remover kill off alges in the refugium?

it should't but I would expect it to slow growth considerably.

[royy]

fI just hooked up the Phospatefilter today. It has the Antiphos in it. It already made an impact on my phosphates. They were at .1 and now are some where between .1 and 0. The Red Sea test kit goes from 0 to .1. The color is some where in the middle. I think I am going to change to phosban when the Antiphos runs out. Maybe I will keep it if it lasts a while. We will see.

Roy

[Easily Distracted]

Gary and Tom,
That chamber in the link looks nice, but isn't cheap. I just made one for carbon for my tank out of about $10 worth of HD parts. I have it running on my tank for a couple of days now and I'm really happy with it(No that's not my tank in the pic!). I'm making another one for a friend now.
These are crude pics, but should give you the gist of it. Let me know if you want more info. -John

http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/500/25617CarbonChamber1.JPG

http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/500/25617CarbonChamber2.JPG

[Gary Majchrzak]

Nice lookin' media chamber, John. I've decided to keep running my phosphate remover 'passively' in a high flow area of my sump, but your contraption sure is food for thought.

[MSHUR]

john...
nice chamber...have u tryed to run phosban in there?
i am looking for something like it for phosban

[Loudz34]

easily~ how are you keeping the carbon from running out.....

[Easily Distracted]

I will be running a Phosphate remover. I am using a couple of filter pads(like the white ones used for a drip tray)cut into discs and placed at each end. The pad is finer than a sponge so it should be fine. Also, the pump is small so it does not try to force the media out of the chamber. A slower flow means more contact time- GPH was not the objective. I also don't pack the media really tight. If there ever is a problem, I will use carbon for the first 3/4 or so and add the Phosphate remover inside it's mesh bag.

Sorry about derailing the thread...

[Gary Majchrzak]

You didn't de-rail it, EasyD, it sounds like you are describing a good inexpensive media chamber. FWIW- It makes sense to run Phosban initially, then switch to the {slightly more expensive and effective} Rowaphos. I have not been recharging any of my media. Does anybody actually sneak around the wife's kitchen and take time to bake that dirty stuff?:lol:

[Gary Majchrzak]

Here's a link to a very interesting related thread:
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=305631&perpage=25&pagenumber=1
Anybody in URS have an opinion on Rowa phos vs. Phosphate killer vs. Phos Ban?

[captain7359]

does anyone know what types are rechargable. and what temp to bake them too and for how long. is there a difference in the powderd type vs the ball type. what brands is everyone using and which brands should i avoid.after hearing some good advice about running some additives from the start of a tank. i think i'm going to look at putting a regimen together and want to get some suggestions on what everybodies favorite phosphorous and carbon types are.

[Gary Majchrzak]

cap- I think "Matrix Carbon" is the carbon of choice for a lot of these guys. I use commonly found "regular GAC" {granular activated carbon} that is phosphate free since the only place I know of locally selling the Matrix stuff is Tom at TRS and he's outta my way. I've been running a little bit of Carbon and changing it out weekly now.
So far I've used the phosphate removers by Kent and Seachem. I've seen only positive results. I would like to try Rowa, though. I've read that the phosphate sponges are good for only three or four days- then they need replacement or recharging. I've yet to bake any of the stuff to recharge... just too much grunge covering the stuff for my oven. {I'm in the middle of sand removal which causes a lot of crud to settle in the sump where I run the carbon and PO4 remover.}

[Flanders]

The type that is the tiny white balls is usually the rechargeable type. I baked some of it once, about six years ago after I first got into the hobby and had some algae problems. In retrospect, the real problem was all the fish I had in that 29 gallon tank.

Some of the other types might be rechargeable too, I'm really not sure.

Stupid question, but where does the phosphate go when you bake them?

[pappasth]

Gary... I have also used the White stuff a few times in my 65g. Its been pretty touchy though, this tank is primarily leathers and shrooms. Most inhabitants show no signs of stress, however I have a few toadstools that really clamp down once I use it. I run it in the media chamber of my canister filter occasionally, and I have found that it takes about 5-6 hours for the toadstools to clamp down once I start, so I usually limit the time I am running it to that, but it has helped out a great deal at keeping the levels down in my tank.

[Gary Majchrzak]

Originally posted by Flanders
Stupid question, but where does the phosphate go when you bake them?
Not a stupid question. I'm assuming it dissapates into the atmosphere or my wife's meatloaf. I've heard that skimmers 'blow off' phosphates and I've always assumed this meant they are going into the atmosphere. Any chemists have a real answer to Flanders question?

[Gary Majchrzak]

Loudz34- Did you get a fluidized bed filter to run Rowaphos? My Rowa will be coming in today or tomorrow. Apparently a FBF is the best way to run Rowa....

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=331394

[drtango]

Gary-

I'm running Rowa in a coralife fluidized bed. I've read that anything else turns it into a useless brick. So far so good, P04 has gone from trace to unmeasurable (for what that's worth).

I did not rinse the media when first starting up, and let the finings go into the tank. It clouds for an hour or two, no harm done, and then your skimmer starts putting out lots of rusty brown skum which I have to believe is full of complexed phosphate.

So far I like it better than PhosBan, much finer particles.

John

[Loudz34]

gary I ordered 3- FB300's and should be here monday or tuesday..... Now i have to get my hands on some phosphate remover....

[Gary Majchrzak]

John at MO now stocks Rowaphos. It ain't cheap. The 250 ml. size Rowa has a micron bag inside it for placing the Rowa directly in an area of low flow {like a sump}. I got the 500 ml. size. I never would have guessed I could get so excited over phosphate remover.:rolleyes:

[_ShotgunShrimp_]

so how long does phosphate removers last and whats the best way to run it?? any opinion's and links to stuff needed will be helpfull

[Gary Majchrzak]

I included a link to the best way to run Rowaphos a couple of posts back on this page.;)
Brief PO4 remover overview: Aluminum based PO4 removers {white} leach aluminum, which may negatively affect corals. Iron based PO4 removers {reddish} are better for reef aquaria. I've not personally noticed any negative reaction from any Al based PO4 removers I've used so far- but who am I to argue the experts?
Most PO4 removers are thought to be exhausted rather quickly- after 3 days use. Rowa supposedly lasts longer. I'm sure all of this depends on the phosphate levels in a particular system.
I plopped a micron bag full of Rowa into my sump for the time being while I futz with hooking up a used Rainbow/Lifeguard fluidized bed filter I got sitting here. Who the heck designed this thing? It's even patented! Unbelievable.

[Gary Majchrzak]

WARNING: THIS IS A NEW POST TO AN OLD THREAD

I've experimented with a lot of different PO4 removers since first posting this thread. I realize it's an anecdotal observation, but I've yet to see anything work as effectively as Rowaphos.
The Rainbow/Lifeguard fluidized bed filter is long gone. It's time to try Rowa in a TLF Phosban reactor.

[KurtsReef]

I have been using the red iron based in a phosban reactor, works wonders PO4 has been non detectable ever since.

Have used the brand name "phosban" and more recently dr. foster smith's 'knock off' both seem to work equally well and the Dr. Foster Smith stuff is cheaper.

[woodwonders]

I've been using Phosban in a TLF Phosban reactor for about a year. Works great. I feed it with a MJ400 dialed down so the surface of the media just starts to dance.

I'll have to check out DR. Foster Smith's knock off.

[angelfishman145]

anyone use these PURA Filtration Pad.if so how good do they work? I am thinking about useing them in my hob power filter, along with carbon.

Ron

[Gary Majchrzak]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11333066#post11333066 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by angelfishman145
anyone use these PURA Filtration Pad.if so how good do they work? I am thinking about useing them in my hob power filter, along with carbon.

Ron Ron- I'm sure the PURA pad will "work" but the amount of PURA contained in one of those pads can't be very much. Most of us posting to this thread are talking about a much larger quantity of PO4 remover than what is contained in a PURA pad.

This is just my experience- I've never seen any product cause the rapid demise of nuisance algae like RowaPHOS did for me.

500 ml. of ROWA in my 225 literally caused nuisance algae to disintigrate over night. I'm talking about Bryopsis and Derbesia. Valonia and Cyanobacteria.
Rowa is very pricey, no doubt about it- but it's very effective.

[Kent E]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=2442747#post2442747 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Gary Majchrzak
Not a stupid question. I'm assuming it dissapates into the atmosphere or my wife's meatloaf. I've heard that skimmers 'blow off' phosphates and I've always assumed this meant they are going into the atmosphere. Any chemists have a real answer to Flanders question?

Good question, funny answer! Did anyone ever find out? I'm assuming the white balls are referring aluminum, which might be making it a mute point anyway. But I'm still curios.

[Gary Majchrzak]

no doubt the "white balls" are an Al based PO4 remover. I'll never bake any PO4 remover (my wife would killl me if I put something like that in our oven!), so it doesn't really concern me but the phosphates must gas out during the baking/heating process- where else could they go? (Besides the meatloaf? :lol: )

[Krazy]

I've been using the pura phos lock in my TLF phosban 150 reactor, also run it with an mj400.

stuff works well..

what intervels are ya'll changing your media out at ??

3-4weeks?

[Gary Majchrzak]

I imagine everyone's changeout schedule would vary. It would depend on the results seen in each unique system. Some systems might not even require use of a PO4 remover depending on bioload and husbandry methods employed...