Calling all fish breeders...

[Trumpet12]

I am trying to create a list of all the fish and mobile invertebrates that are available captive-bred. You can see the list here (http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=324717). I would like it if you could tell me the names of any fish that are not listed, but are bred in captivity, with successful larva rearing. I do not really want a list of everything in the Breeder's Registry, since it contains some things that you have very little hope of actually getting captive-bred. I would rather that you only listed fish that someone could reasonably get.

Thanks, Trumpet12

[oama]

Define "only listed fish that someone could reasonably get" please. Many species have been done, but have been dropped from production for any various reasons. Others can and have been done, but the costs of rearing can presently never compete with WC (ex. non-clown damsels).

[oama]

You can add A. tricinctus to the clown list.

A. akalopsis, A. akindynos, A. chryspoterus and A. nigripes have all been availible in the past.

Oh, and don't forget the often over looked poorer cousin of the GSM. The plain old White Stripe Maroon.

And speaking of varients... what about Black ocellaris, Onyx percula, SI percula, Coral Sea melanopus or New Caledonia melanopus?

[Atticus]

Don't forget that A. polymnus comes in a brown and black variant. The brown is readily available and I don't know of anyone producing the black at this time... Oama feel free to correct me if you guys have them. You can also add Berghia Nudibrants

[oama]

Originally posted by Atticus
Don't forget that A. polymnus comes in a brown and black variant. The brown is readily available and I don't know of anyone producing the black at this time... Oama feel free to correct me if you guys have them.

Not quite yet ;)


You can also add Berghia Nudibrants
Is that the one that eats aptasia? They are truely wild to observe "stalking" the polyps. Slow and steady...feeling...closer...and then POUNCE!


Oh and Trumpet12, anemones are generally considered sessile organisms.

You can also add two new species of clown gobies and one species of cardinal. After the are debued at this weekends trade show in Orlando. ;)

[Atticus]

Originally posted by oama
Not quite yet ;)



Is that the one that eats aptasia? They are truely wild to observe "stalking" the polyps. Slow and steady...feeling...closer...and then POUNCE!
Yep thats the ones.

Originally posted by oama

You can also add two new species of clown gobies and one species of cardinal. After the are debued at this weekends trade show in Orlando. ;)
Guess you guys have been busy lately!!! :D

[rsman]

darn I love clown gobies why do you guys have to work SOO far away!!! :D

and depending on the definition of "reasonably get"

Synchiropus splendidus
Gobiodon okinawae

[FishinAggie03]

Hippocampus zosterae
H. erectus
H. kuda
H. abdominalis
H. capensis
Only ones I can think of now, I'm half asleep. I'll come up with some more tomorrow.

[getwet]

Is there a reason your not simply using the breeders registry?

[rsman]

"I do not really want a list of everything in the Breeder's Registry, since it contains some things that you have very little hope of actually getting captive-bred. I would rather that you only listed fish that someone could reasonably get."

kinda works the fish registry is large :D

[Trumpet12]

Define "only listed fish that someone could reasonably get"


That's a very hard question, but it is good that it got asked. I guess that I would say that things that are bred on a fairly regular basis count as reasonable to get. Fish that have only been bred once or twice, or that are only 20 or so available each year do not count. Do you think that this is the right way to think about it?

And speaking of varients

I was not intending to list variants, but I guess that I should.

anemones are generally considered sessile organisms

I know. There were a few reasons that I first decided to put them on, but I probably should take those off the list.

You can also add Berghia Nudibrants

I will add those.

Gobiodon okinawae

I will add those.

Synchiropus splendidus

Where do you get captive-bred Mandarinfish? I have been looking for one.

FishinAggie03,

I will wait for you to wake up and get the whole list.:)

Also, it would be great if everyone would start posting on the thread that lists the species. JohnL is going to update the list occasionally, based on what is posted there, so if you start posting there, I will not have to move everything.

Thanks, Trumpet12

[Atticus]

But it is so much more fun to post here.... :D

[Trumpet12]

If anyone can tell me where to find the CB mandarinfish that rsman mentioned, I would really like that.

[rsman]

those fit into the "20 a year" category and are not often available.

[man910]

How about posting the locations of where they can be obtained? This will support the breeders as well as make it easier for the rest of us to obtain them.

[Trumpet12]

Originally posted by man910
How about posting the locations of where they can be obtained? This will support the breeders as well as make it easier for the rest of us to obtain them.

Good idea. It might make sense to do this for some of the species that are more difficult to obtain. I would think that it is not necessary to do this for the species that are easy to get, but if someone disagrees I am willing to reconsider.

[rsman]

the big problem I see is commercial posts are not allowed,

I would hate to be kicked off rc by saying I have X for sale

and how exactly would we seperate ME from trying to sell X from some dumb fishseller that sees a slight change in the rules and decides to post 10,000,000 posts saying you can find fish X over there >>> pointing to himself. though I dont have the answer I only see a potential problem. another thing is a few of the fish places I sell to would probibly(99% sure) not be happy if I said that I sell them my X fish, as it makes a private sale more public and they wouldnt wanna be liable or lose business when/if(more when) I do something stupid.

[oama]

rsman
I know what you mean:rolleyes:

[Trumpet12]

JohnL approved the idea, although we would have to check with him again before doing anything radical. If any breeders did not want to be listed, that would obviously need to be respected.

[JHardman]

Originally posted by Trumpet12
JohnL approved the idea, although we would have to check with him again before doing anything radical. If any breeders did not want to be listed, that would obviously need to be respected.

Let us know what exactly the deal is. There are a lot of breeders on RC, many producing similar fish. It would only be fare to list all, which might be quite the job, but beneficial to the hobby and breeders.

[Trumpet12]

Originally posted by JHardman
Let us know what exactly the deal is. There are a lot of breeders on RC, many producing similar fish. It would only be fare to list all, which might be quite the job, but beneficial to the hobby and breeders.


Since man910 proposed this, I am hoping that he will explain his idea a bit more.

[rsman]

IF we are still trying to figure out what the deal really is going to be, a seperation between mass producing and once in a blue moon might be good, yet list both! to be more specific I have ocallaris fry every couple of weeks yet dont have others but a few times a year. at least I think id wanna be on the list somehow maybee(maybe not, id like to run it up a flagpole and see which places I supply to shoot me :D) , but id hate to have ppl begging daily asking when ill have a "flying purple people eater" :bounce2: when I only sell a handful a year. and do we publically list the store or just the breeder? as I myself am not really interested in selling retail, id rather sell to a retail business.

so many problems so little solutions :D

[oama]

The term "Seasonally Availible" comes to mind for species that are not always in large/continous production.

[Trumpet12]

Originally posted by oama
The term "Seasonally Availible" comes to mind for species that are not always in large/continous production.

If the people reading the list are as unwilling to buy wild caught organisms as me, they will wait as long as they need to. :D

Seriously, we could put a note by each species that says whether it is regularly available in large numbers, rarely available in small numbers, or whatever.

[man910]

Since man910 proposed this, I am hoping that he will explain his idea a bit more.

I stumbled onto this thread one night after I ran out of messages to read in the anemone/clownfish forum. After I saw the list of captive-bred species, I thought it would really be a good idea to put some info on where you could buy them. I'm not a breeder and am not really a hardcore "concientious" aquarist. However, I'm always encouraged through books and postings to buy captive-bred but where can you find them? Why don't the authors tell you where you can buy them? Anyway, I ultimately buy wild-caught fish because there seem to be lots of barriers in getting captiv-bred. Hopefully, you guys will make it easier for the casual hobbyist. I already see a lot of politics after my post. I hope you guys can work it out.

[rsman]

just a quick note.

I spoke to 1 trusty guy at 1 LFS, about posting a quick "i breed X and you can get them over ((here))" note

he looked at me all funny, and said "your kidding right!!"(sure kidding yep that was the word:rolleyes:) after going well only a little, he said that would be seriously frowned upon, and it might jepordize my relationship with them.

so the best I could do on this could happen list is a "i breed X" that was only 1 place and I know the guy I asked he is super cool I wont even dare to bring it up with the others.

as to man910: what is your location? (aprox is good enough) I dont really have trouble locating CB fish, anywhere so i was wondering what barriers your running into? also you do know that not every fish is currently able to be raised in captivity?

[Trumpet12]

Originally posted by rsman
I dont really have trouble locating CB fish

Do you mean that you can get any CB fish that you want locally?! I have to mail order or drive a long way to get any CB fish at all. :(

[Trumpet12]

Originally posted by rsman
just a quick note.

I spoke to 1 trusty guy at 1 LFS, about posting a quick "i breed X and you can get them over ((here))" note

he looked at me all funny, and said "your kidding right!!"(sure kidding yep that was the word:rolleyes:) after going well only a little, he said that would be seriously frowned upon, and it might jepordize my relationship with them.

so the best I could do on this could happen list is a "i breed X" that was only 1 place and I know the guy I asked he is super cool I wont even dare to bring it up with the others.


This could be a major setback. Do you think that we should only list major hatcheries if other breeders have this problem too?

[rsman]

This could be a major setback. Do you think that we should only list major hatcheries if other breeders have this problem too?

though i am speaking out of turn here I think oama covered that well, though not in as many words.

[oama]

:beachbum:

[Trumpet12]

I did not think that there would be this many problems. Do you (everyone) think that we should not try to do it?

[rsman]

im all for the concept,

someone (wanna sign up :D ) needs to do major research, and then pick a way of presenting the data so that everyone is happy

as i said before I like it, i dont have the answers, but i see problems.

one way i guess it could work is if ppl were free to either publicly or confidentially(users choice) "nominate" or whatnot any place they found CB fish but then you would probibly want to show which CB fish and that doesnt cover availability. see more problems :| you might have to just accept that there could be invalid data. or the list maintainer would have to verify the nomination harder to do if the fish seller is voting for him self, ( i picture some one saying "X has CB purple people eaters" the mod calling up and of course as the owner put the tag the mod gets "yes we have CB purple people eaters" even though the status of the CB purple people eaters would be very questionable) not to say every LFS is going to be dishonest, but everyone knows how much I needed that $400 trickle filter on my 37g reef!!!

[Trumpet12]

Originally posted by rsman
someone (wanna sign up :D ) needs to do major research, and then pick a way of presenting the data so that everyone is happy


I would be willing to take a crack at it, except that:

1. I see no way that we will be able to find every individual breeder.

2. I am not sure that all of the major fish hatcheries would appreciate a public listing of the species that they offer.

I think that if the major hatcheries don't want lists of the fish that they offer on the web, trying to create a list of fish breeders is not reasonable.

[rsman]

my *thought* in my post was to list the LFS not the breeder. (that was really the end idea, where can person Y get fish X from)

I dont think you can list the breeders, and you wont get many smilies from the big guys from listing there fish. and you wont get me saying I sell to Z store but i might check a checkbox or 2 and type the name of the place into a text field if I wasnt identified with that entry. it *might* be best if a non breeder did the work anyways as that person might not step on as many toes.

but as i stated someone is gona have to research and plan.

[Trumpet12]

Originally posted by rsman
my *thought* in my post was to list the LFS not the breeder. (that was really the end idea, where can person Y get fish X from)


John(L) once requested that we not list vendors on the CB fish species thread, so we might get in trouble for doing that.

[rsman]

the next best guess would be
what if someone created a "fish store directory" and put a link in here to it. or is there one already we could use?

[lil'salty]

i dont understand why the lfs doesn't like the idea
if it is an undercutting isue then make them the same price
i think it would be better for the hobby if anyone could get these fish even in backwoods missouri
it is not like you would sell them all anyway so the lfs would still get fish i'm sure

[rsman]

there are a ton of issues,

for a quick coverage of a few.

first I could say " hey everyone I have CB purple people eaters available now" and people could contact me, and I could make a sale, but its against the rules, so some one says bend or change the rules what about the nice people at ORA or ..... they are just breeders also, do they get a say ??? where is the line drawn?? number of tanks or number of employees how do we keep check on who has what? then you get to another issue I dont wanna sell 1 or 2 clowns, its not worth my time, its a royal pain to do things like work out shipping, your supposed to do things(setup accounts jump thru loops ...) if you ship livestock thru places like fedex and such, then I have to deal with taxes and such I have to collect sales tax, I have to keep a reciept, and come tax time i have to count the reciepts add things up and send the state $$$$$$$$ while i still have to do the work my <50 reciepts a year are easy now im gona have what 100 or 200 or ?? then I have to deal with dead fish do I refund do i make them return a dead one to me, or just all sales final. no thanks. so the next maybe would be to list the places I sell to, so people could contact them, well ok but now my private sale isnt so private, and I am being an ?agent?(grab the legal term yourself if you want it) for the LFS, now say i jump on RC and someone has just installed a 5000gph wet dry on his 20gal reef, and i do something stupid like say tell him to "get a clue" and he sees this link he can now go after the LFS, maybe not win anything, but now the LFS is involved and so am I again. and now we know that the rules wont be bent for the LFS, so I cant post the "purple people eaters available at supersmelly fish store at 1245 idonno, state of confusion" label. and what does a company like ORA do there, list 10,000,000 fish stores :D and I know that IF i advertised the sale of a species of fish that Id sell all i have in a day. the LFS's would not be so happy then, and we have just killed any chance I had with working with an online vendor.

and I am just breeding out of my garage(*anywhere* else in the house a tank fits) trying to make a buck and have fun with fish.


hopefully I made some sence in that, and you understand that for every good thought are 50 reasons it might not work and some of those are less important, but others are very important. if someone spends the time it could be good to have. but this is part of the "time" some how this needs to be put together so no one is so upset(?) by what is done that it falls apart.

[lil'salty]

i understand that it would be a headache
ya it would become bigger than your garage pretty quickly i am guessing
it would be cool if i could get a captive bred mandarin here though
;)

[danny zubot]

This is all fine but where in Calgary(the prairies) am I supposed to get my hands on captive bread stock?

[JHardman]

Originally posted by danny zubot
This is all fine but where in Calgary(the prairies) am I supposed to get my hands on captive bread stock?
More one breeder here on RC has an import/export permit. I am sure something could be worked out.

Heck the seahorse people do it with CITES rules in place in the EU.

[oama]

I won't mention names... But I am aware of at least one major hatchery that ships regularly to Canada.

[v4reef]

i know this might sound simplistic, but even the petco posts if they are tank raised here in NY.

Plus if they are small juvenile specimens, it's hard to see how it would be worth the effort of a scuba diver to wild harvest.

[orestes19832003]

not to sound like a jerk or anything but this is the very reason that alot of us don't buy CB fish much its far to difficult to find them. i completely support the idea of CB fish and i buy them whenever possible from online but its impossible to find all you fish CB when you live in the middle of nowhere like i do.

[Atticus]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10949887#post10949887 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by orestes19832003
not to sound like a jerk or anything but this is the very reason that alot of us don't buy CB fish much its far to difficult to find them. i completely support the idea of CB fish and i buy them whenever possible from online but its impossible to find all you fish CB when you live in the middle of nowhere like i do.

Wow this thread was resurected from the dead!!! Last post was over 2 years ago and the majority of the thread was from 3 years ago... If you look at many online retailers' sites they are now listing captive raised fish. An example would be liveaquaria.com You would also be surprised to know how large of a percentage of clowns in the industry are now from captive sources.

[Ploppers]

Liveaquaria.com lists 19 different fish in their tank bred section. I would call that a pretty good selection. :)

[tcmfish]

marine betta's and seahorses

[Rays]

Premium Aquatics also lists TR's.

[jlylec]

I stumbled onto this thread one night after I ran out of messages to read in the anemone/clownfish forum. After I saw the list of captive-bred species, I thought it would really be a good idea to put some info on where you could buy them. I'm not a breeder and am not really a hardcore "concientious" aquarist. However, I'm always encouraged through books and postings to buy captive-bred but where can you find them? Why don't the authors tell you where you can buy them? Anyway, I ultimately buy wild-caught fish because there seem to be lots of barriers in getting captiv-bred. Hopefully, you guys will make it easier for the casual hobbyist. I already see a lot of politics after my post. I hope you guys can work it out.

i couldn't agree more!