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kp1917
02/25/2004, 06:39 PM
Hey all,

My first shipment 50g package arrives at airfreight at 10pm tonight. I will be posting my numbers so if anyone sees anything of concern please reply. I have some changing water ready to go has anyone had to do more than one water change per day?

KP

Bax
02/25/2004, 08:22 PM
I did two 10% water changes per day 12 hours apart once I saw ammonia start to really take off. By doing this, with four or five changes, ammonia was under control. It's been about twelve days so far and my nirates are still elevated (30 to 40) but my ammonia has been zero.

Be patient with critter patrol before putting the rock in the tank. If you hear poping sounds, it's mantis locate the rock and flush them out with seltzer or a hyper saline solution. (Ididn't know what the poping sound was and had to chace down the mants the hard way.

Enjoy your TBS. And good luck.

kp1917
02/26/2004, 04:23 AM
I got it home by eleven. Sand and Rock in by 12:10am. Turned on the canister filter and it cleared right up. Figure I'll get a few hours nap and test it in the morning.

The sand boxes were in Mint condition, there was a little leaking and saturation with the rock boxes but the rock was still in lots of water.

Found two gorrilla crabs in the left over water, no clicking sounds. Only hitchhickers found so far were a couple of snails. I can't wait to see what I find after a few hours sleep.

Bax
02/26/2004, 09:37 AM
KP
Do you have skimmer running too?
You'll need it. My skimmer barely pulled any skimate until the TBS went in. Now I pull a couple of inchest of smelly green spew a day. Nasty!!!
Did you let the rock sit out a while before setting it in the tank?
I've pulled four gorillas and two small mantis out so far. There are still a few gorillas left and I am not so sure that I don't have more mantis.
But I also have cup corals, starlet corals, tube corals, several porcelin crabs. blue leg hermits, mini brittles, sponges in every color, tunicates, turkey wing clams (Arca zebra), oysters, barnicles and lots of stuff I can't ID.
Very cool.

kp1917
02/26/2004, 11:12 AM
Day 1

Rock and sand in for 8 hours:


8:20am
Temp 75.8
Ammonia 1
Nitrites .25
Nitrates 0
PH 7.8
Salinity 1.025

Well, I'll start off with a 10% water change due to the amm. My heater isn't keeping the water at 77 for some reason, I'm afraid to do the touch test.

Is my ph a problem?

kp1917
02/26/2004, 12:00 PM
Yes I have my skimmer (seaclone) going but I've never run one before and the thing is a bugger to get to run at just the right way so to get the foam coming at just the right speed. And even then I don't know if I am running it right. I also still have the canister going to get rid of any muck.

Slatts
02/26/2004, 12:10 PM
I don't think the PH is a problem while your cycling. What salt are you using? Mine stayed at 8.2 the whole time using IO. My ammonia stayed at around 1 for 9 days and I did water changes everyday. Pull up a chair. The fun begins. Good luck.

kp1917
02/26/2004, 12:22 PM
Using IO reef crystals. The strange thing is that it was at 8.2 approx. the day before.

Also, my tank has a mild to moderate die off smell. Is that normal?

Slatts
02/26/2004, 12:30 PM
Yea mild in the beginning. On the third or fourth day it was bad. I thought my wife would evict us. (me and tank) Quick water change and it was fine. Some sponge die off I assume but I never scrapped it off the rock.

kp1917
02/26/2004, 12:47 PM
Oh my God it gets worse? I told her that it would be better by the time she gets home from work. Well, I'll run and get some candles.

Slatts
02/26/2004, 01:11 PM
And some flowers for her.

goblinsharkman
02/26/2004, 01:53 PM
kp1917 are u gonna post some pics?

Bax
02/26/2004, 02:13 PM
KP
The small gets better.
As for the die off I only remove what looks to be rotting away, otherwise it stays.
And don't worry in a day or so you'll start collect in that skimmer oh yeah. I dump mine every one to two days now that the TBS in in.
The pH drop is odd, are you buffering your makeup water?

kp1917
02/26/2004, 02:51 PM
Pics are on the way, I have taken some but my connection cord is at work. I forgot to take pics of the rock out of water.

The skimmer started working I think, the bubbles flow over and turn into water that is greenish???? Then you dump the water? I just emptied my cup and it was about 1/3 full after a few hours. Does that sound right?

I haven't buffered my water but I have some buffer. I take it I should do that?

KP

Dazz
02/27/2004, 06:39 AM
That seems unfortunate. I had no measurable spike of ammonia and my skimmer didnt really spew anything too horrible. I called it completely cycled in about 5 days. Is your skimmer putting out wet or dry foam? If it is too wet you might want to try to make it a little more dry. That will help with having to clear it out as much.

kp1917
02/27/2004, 10:47 AM
The skimmer produces sometimes a lot of foam. It's pretty clean but there is a little color to it. I've got it to where the foam is mostly dry, it just takes a lot of messing around with.

Which skimmer brands do you all use and are they easy to adjust?

Kyle

kp1917
02/27/2004, 10:49 AM
DAY 2

8:00 am
Temp 77.2
Ammonia 4ish (card goes from 4 to 8)
Nitrites .25
Nitrates 0
PH 7.8
Salinity 1.0245

Should I do a 20% change now or two 10% one now and one later tonight??

DCDeacon
02/27/2004, 12:14 PM
If your ammonia is really 4 (and not .4) then you'd better do a water change in a hurry. According to Richard, anything over 1 is bad for your LR.

ducker
02/27/2004, 12:43 PM
hows that smell situation?

liverock
02/27/2004, 12:50 PM
Originally posted by DCDeacon
If your ammonia is really 4 (and not .4) then you'd better do a water change in a hurry. According to Richard, anything over 1 is bad for your LR.

Your rock will die at those levels, it is imperative to keep the ammonia under 1ppm...

Thanks
Richard TBS

kp1917
02/27/2004, 01:21 PM
Doing a 20% change and taking another day off for rock babysitting. Will be ready for another 20% change in another 12hours if things don't improve.

DCDeacon
02/27/2004, 01:25 PM
Don't be surprised if 20% isn't enough if your levels are that high. I might recommend changing the water, waiting a bit, and then test again. Letting it go for 12 more hours at 1 ppm or more isn't doing you any good. You may have to keep taking out water and adding new until you get it down below one. Otherwise the ammonia will continue to deep fry your rock.

docklink
02/27/2004, 01:49 PM
Originally posted by DCDeacon
Don't be surprised if 20% isn't enough if your levels are that high. I might recommend changing the water, waiting a bit, and then test again. Letting it go for 12 more hours at 1 ppm or more isn't doing you any good. You may have to keep taking out water and adding new until you get it down below one. Otherwise the ammonia will continue to deep fry your rock.

Agreed. A high ammonia level will set up a vicious circle; High ammonia kills. Dead and damaged tissue releases more ammonia.

kp1917
02/27/2004, 02:45 PM
Right before I did my 20%, I got rid of one dead sponge. I've read that you don't want to do more than a 20% change at one time. Do you all agree? I can do 10 or 20 later this evening if the ammonia doesn't come down enough but is there a such thing as too much?

Bax
02/27/2004, 03:00 PM
Yes I've read to do more small changes than one large change.
Back to your skimmer question, after the TBS went in I started pulling a very wet green skimate and pull it consitently. It slows daon for a while after I give the cup a good cleaning but comes back. I think it's OK fo rthe skimate to be wet as long as it's nasty, if it's wet and water-clear you need to adjust the cup.
I did 5 10% changes before my ammo stopped rising and settled down. Now it's nitrates I am still watching.

kp1917
02/27/2004, 03:06 PM
Bax,

I just did a 20 and the ammonia is still at 4+ so I figure that I should do another 10 soon at least. The skimmer water is getting more and more murky, and the bubbles a little dryer.

KP

SPC
02/27/2004, 03:20 PM
Originally posted by kp1917
I've read that you don't want to do more than a 20% change at one time. Do you all agree?

No, in this situation it will do no harm to do at least a 50% change. The 20% deal is used in relation to established tanks that are within normal parameters.
Steve

hdtran
02/27/2004, 03:54 PM
Hmm,

Are you testing total ammonia, or free ammona?

DCDeacon
02/27/2004, 04:31 PM
Could be total, but if the smell is bad I'm guessing it's free and he's in need of massive water changes.

kp1917
02/27/2004, 06:25 PM
Hy, Deacon et. al.,

Just got back from the store with Amquel to help and some new stuff called Bio-Spira nitrifying bacteria (from Instant Ocean). Going to test now (it's been a couple of hours since the 20% change then I'll do a 50% change then add the Bio-Spira

goblinsharkman
02/27/2004, 07:01 PM
kp1917 i just looked at ur location, Anchorage gezz it must be hard to reef up there. Hey at least u dont have to worrk bout a chiller LOL...

goblinsharkman
02/27/2004, 07:01 PM
kp1917 i just looked at ur location, Anchorage gezz it must be hard to reef up there. Hey at least u dont have to worry bout a chiller LOL...

DCDeacon
02/27/2004, 07:05 PM
Let us know how it goes. I've heard good things about the Bio-Spira.

kp1917
02/27/2004, 07:06 PM
Hy,

Also I don't (embarrassingly) don't know the difference between total ammonia and free, I'm using Aquarium Pharmaceuticals Saltwater Master liguid test kit.

KP

hdtran
02/27/2004, 08:03 PM
If it's the 8 drops of reagent A + 8 drops of reagent B, with nearly undecipherable colors of green, that's the test that I have. It measures total ammonia, which is both NH3 (toxic) and NH4 (not nearly as toxic).

Amquel or something like that will convert your NH3 to NH4. Unfortunately, your test will still detect the NH4.

Biospira is very similar to biozyme (the brown powder that got sent to you with your shipment). The biospira, biozyme, or bacteria in your LS & LR will eventually convert the NH4 to nitrite, then nitrate.

Look for obviously decaying sponges (if it peels off easily with the fingers...), and toss them. (My nose is pretty useless, so I can't use the stink test...)

kp1917
02/27/2004, 08:24 PM
Hy,

That is the test I have. I've gotten rid of a couple of sponges now (as soon as they turn white-ish I try to pull them). After a few changes and the additives it's down to 1-ish now. I also have Aquarium Systems "Fastest" which only measures to .8 but a lot more accurate if your ammonia is down to where it should be since the other goes from 0 - .25 - .5 - 1 - 2 - 4 - 8. The problem with the "Fastest" one though is that I keep getting a light blue-green and that color isn't in the range so I am assuming that I am still above .8

May I assume that if the other measures total ammonia, it might not be as bad as I thought?????

Thankyou for the help. I'll be posting new numbers tomorrow morning.


Kyle

docklink
02/27/2004, 08:59 PM
kp1917,
You can extend the range of your FasTest by diluting your tank sample 1:1 with ro/di water. Double the resultant reading for a read of how much ammonia is present. ( A diluted reading of .7 would be a true reading of 1.4) HTH

kp1917
02/28/2004, 10:51 AM
Day 3

After all the water changes and Amquel & bio-spira, I got the ammonia down to under 1 - guessing about .75 last night, and the ph was up as well. Now this morning,

8:10am
Temp - 76.5
Ammonia - 1
Nitrites - 0
Nitrates - 0
PH - 7.8
Salinity - 1.024

So Why does the PH keep falling?? I will add more buffer but I buffed the changing water each time yesterday. How bad do I need to worry about this??

I haven't seen anything dying except some of the sponge. I have little feather dusters (less than an inch and see-through) and other very small life that still looks ok?

KP

kp1917
02/28/2004, 10:58 AM
Also, the protein skimmer is pulling out the nastiest stuff yet. Should I turn off the Magnum 350 now, isn't it's filters full of ammonia eating bacteria now??

Kyle

we_want_Nemo
02/28/2004, 10:58 AM
If you have die off in your water ... the PH will drop automatically.

If you put too much buffer in at one time, your Alkalinity will raise, which is not a good thing either ... so while you use a buffer make sure you check for that too!

My PH was very low at the beginning too, and it took some time and water changes to get it under control ... I didn't notice anything bad happening because of it (I was very worried!!)

good luck to you and your tank
Manuela

kp1917
02/28/2004, 11:03 AM
Thanks Manuela,

I had just tested for Alk this morning for the first time and it was high so I'll just leave be.

Bax
03/01/2004, 01:43 PM
I've read in many post to only buffer the top off water never the change water. I think the IO crystals, or what ever you are using, adjust pH when mixed.

Be patient and keep testing.

Glad to see your skimmer is skimming

kp1917
03/01/2004, 11:19 PM
OK, my ammonia has jumped to anywhere between .6 and 6. I have done 10%, 20% and 50% water changes to get it back down to 1 or below. Since receiving this Wed. night I have done at least 2 water changes per day. I had it down to .6 last night and when I got home from work it was back up to 4, so another 20% change to get it back to >1.

I admit that this has been my fault not TBS. I wasn't aggressive enough on the water changes in the beginning and the rock sat out too long before it went into the tank.

There is obviously still die-off occuring but most everything is still alive. Lots of tiny filter feeders and such.

Million dollar question: Can I still save the tank or should I stop the massive water changes? I would say that after 5 full days of having the package, the quality of life in the tank is still slowly declining.

Help please!

KP

docklink
03/01/2004, 11:46 PM
KP, keep up the water changes. Have you been peeling off/ removing any obvious die-off (sponges, etc.)? Get that out of the tank, if not. You'll still have life with the water changes and, by report, it is amazing what can survive (though it will take a long time to recover). Keep the faith,baby. [and good luck]

DCDeacon
03/02/2004, 09:27 AM
Don't give up KP. Keep at it. You'll get it under control soon.

Slatts
03/02/2004, 09:38 AM
My ammonia was at least 1 for 9 days in a row. I thought it would never end and everything would die off. 4 weeks later it's better than I ever imagined. Just keep making water.

kp1917
03/02/2004, 10:40 AM
Cool, thanks guys, it's good to know that this isn't in vain. I am changing another 20% this morning and while I have that water in a tub I'm pulling out each rock and going to gently peel all dead stuff off.

For the most part, if it's white it's dead, right???

KP

Slatts
03/02/2004, 10:47 AM
http://a3.cpimg.com/image/29/2A/30293033-0bd7-02000180-.jpg

The sponge in the lower middle with 3 dots on it is white but I wouldn't say it is dead. I think its just white. I have a few of those so be careful.

liverock
03/02/2004, 11:00 AM
The blue sponge is fine, if a sponge goes, let your nose tell you..
Thanks
Richard TBS
www.tbsaltwater.com

kp1917
03/02/2004, 01:57 PM
I had none of those, I just got finished with cleaning off all of the rock and doing about a 30% water change. I found a baseball size decaying sponge in a crevasse that I got out along with a bunch of smaller stuff that I got rid of. So we'll see if this helps.

The ammonia had gone back up to about 4 since last night (before this water change and cleaning project).

Bax
03/02/2004, 03:30 PM
That could have been it. I found a ball sponge a little gigger than a golf ball rotting away under one of my rocks. Removing it helped a lot. Good luck!

kp1917
03/04/2004, 02:18 PM
Day 4 2-29-04


10:30am
temp 76.5
Ammonia between 4 and 8
nitrites 0
nitrates 0
ph 8
salinity 1.024

50% water change and later 10%

kp1917
03/04/2004, 02:20 PM
Day 5 3-1-04

8:15am

Temp 76.3
ammonia 1
nitrites 0
nitrates 0
ph7.8
sal 1.023

kp1917
03/04/2004, 02:21 PM
Day 6 3-2-04

Changed 30% water and pulled out all rock (kept in water) and pulled off all dead stuff I could find.

Ammonia @ 1ppm

Did another 10% water change that night

kp1917
03/04/2004, 02:23 PM
Day 7 3-3-04

Time 7:15am

Temp 78.4 No idea why that high, heater set at 77

Ammonia 4 ( had kept at 1 for 12 hours then jumped in the middle of the night.

Nitrites 0
Nitrates 0
ph 7.8
sal 1.0235

kp1917
03/04/2004, 02:28 PM
Day 8

At 6:30am ammonia was at 4ppm. Did a 20% water change before heading to work that got the ammonia back down to 1ppm.

The orange stuff (algae I guess) that is on a few of the rocks continues to turn whitish. Other than that everything else looks OK. I still have little fanning items of various small sizes and colors that appear to be doing well, and a couple of hermits and snails that also appear to be doing ok.

After every change I put in a dose of Amquel (ammonia detox) to try to limit the damages.

No nitrite nor nitrate movement yet after 7 days.....

Am I doing ok with what is going on?????????

franning
03/04/2004, 04:01 PM
Well so far I have these reading:

ammo: 1
ph: 8.19
Nitrites: 0.25
Nitrates : 0
Salinity: 1.026

So far I've pulled mantis with eggs and i decent crab. I notice some clam, brain something ( sorry still new to this hobby to remember all the names) some blue sponges. And a lot of seethru tentacles that comes out of a hole, lot of orange algae, some velvet like maroon algae I think, saw a small green star fish. And I know there is a small crab still in my tank. And I bought mind from TBS. ( Fast delivery call in the morning and I have it by 8 pm CST).

Quick question thou.. I don't smell anything bad so far from my tank. Not a lot of die off if any. Am I for a rude awakening in the coming days?

:rolleyes:

hdtran
03/05/2004, 12:41 AM
Franning,

You're doing fine. With many of us, it took until day 7 to 10 (if not 12) before the ammonia decided to nosedive.

If you're feeling especially concerned, do a 10 to 20% water change over the weekend.

Your orange algae is most likely an encrusting sponge or tunicate.

kp1917
03/05/2004, 02:47 PM
Day 9

Ammonia back up to 4ppm again, no big surprise there.

The orange algea or what ever it is has pretty much gone from beautiful orange and hard to pale peeling, flaking muck. Other than that I seem to find new filter items every day. Some are clear and look like small anenomies and some look like tiny, tiny feather dusters.

I sent Richard a picture of some clam thing (I have two a little bigger than golf balls) and he said they were a jewel box clam??
Anyone know anything about these?

kp1917
03/07/2004, 05:32 AM
Day 10



After doing a water change the day before to get the ammonia back down to 1ppm then it going back up to 2-4 last night, today I found this:

Time 2:15pm

temp 79.2
Ammonia 1
Nitrites 2
Nitrates 10
ph low 7.4 or maybe a little lower
Salinity 1.0235

This was the first time that the Ammonia had actually stayed or gone down, and absolutely the first measurable Nitrites and Nitrates.

It must be finally cycling?????

KP

hdtran
03/07/2004, 07:36 AM
KP,

Sounds like things are beginning to go.

I would add some buffer with a water change to help the pH get back into the good range.

docklink
03/07/2004, 08:34 AM
Originally posted by kp1917
This was the first time that the Ammonia had actually stayed or gone down, and absolutely the first measurable Nitrites and Nitrates.

It must be finally cycling?????

Excellent news! Sounds like you've turned the corner.

Bax
03/07/2004, 12:38 PM
Sounds good KP! Be patient still. It may take a while for the nitrates to come down. I am two weeks since my ammo dropped and still watching high nitrate readings (30 - 40).
I've got chato in my HOB fuge and I am looking for some Gracillaria to add to it for nitrate export.
Things will still die off too so keep a close eye. Goods news is that things you haven't even noticed yet will start to pop up as well.
Good luck!

kp1917
03/07/2004, 04:28 PM
Day 11

Did a 10% change and...

Time 1:30pm
Temp 78.8
Ammonia a little less than 1 prob. a .9 ish
Nitrite on the high side of 2
Nitrate between my 10 and 20 colors
Ph 7.6 (I added buffer before this test and will test and add more tonight)
Salinity 1.023

kp1917
03/07/2004, 04:30 PM
Should I do a 20% to 30% change tomorrow to try to get the ammonia down to .5 or less OR should I just let it cycle?

KP

hdtran
03/07/2004, 06:55 PM
KP,

If you have fish in this tank, do the 20% change, otherwise, monitor & let it proceed at its own pace.

Hy

kp1917
03/07/2004, 11:09 PM
Thanks Hy!

kp1917
03/09/2004, 03:10 PM
Day 13

Performed a 20% water change then tested:

Time 10:45am
Temp 76.5
Ammonia .35
Nitrites 2
Nitrates 20
Ph 8

kp1917
03/09/2004, 03:11 PM
Big Question:

Now what do I look out for? When if ever do I need to test for other things?

Thanks,

KP

hdtran
03/09/2004, 04:22 PM
KP,

Your cycle is nearly completed. Let the ammonia and nitrites wend their way to zero naturally (will happen pretty quickly). You may do another change to keep your nitrates under control, though I would expect your rock, sand, and macroalgae to take charge of your nitrates. Once ammonia and nitrites are at zero, give TBS a phone call to arrange for part II.

You will get a diatom bloom, and a small hair algae bloom. Those go away (esp. with all the hermits in the cleanup crew).

If you're going to keep corals, I would also test alkalinity and calcium. Supplement alk & calcium per test results. You only need to run calcium & alk. tests about 1/week.

Don't forget to do a periodic water change to help replenish trace elements in your tank and export crud.

JEFFTHEREEFER
03/10/2004, 10:07 AM
kp thanks for this thread--I have been fighting the same things you have--Im now on day 15 and things are starting to come down like they should--How are things looking for you now??

You must have gotten your package 2 days before me-

kp1917
03/10/2004, 11:48 AM
Jeff,

It's day 14 for me and I tested late last night and got the same readings that I did about 12 hours earlier which was posted as day 13. I am curious to see what I will find tonight when I get home from work. I would like to see the Nitrites and Nitrates come down so I can get the second shipment ordered.

I also plan on only letting my rock sit out for only a few minutes this time to limit the die off. I'll deal with bad hitchikers in the tank.

How is it going for you?

KP

JEFFTHEREEFER
03/10/2004, 11:53 AM
Its getting better---I didnt let any of my rocks sit out--as i was afraid of die off--i figured i would just deal w the hitchhikers-as its a smaller tank and i can catch them--
for me if i move the sand at all--my ammonia shoots up--if i leave it alone--it contines to fall--i am under one now and staying there so im hoping as you are that something will change by the time i get home tonight-- sorry for the book--not trying to highjack your thread here

kp1917
03/11/2004, 12:58 AM
Day 14

At 7pm the parameters were virtually unchanged from the measurements taken and posted on Day 13 except that the ammonia looked like it was down to .2ish

KP

kp1917
03/11/2004, 01:02 AM
Also with these readings I won't do any water change for now. I don't want to make this cycle last any longer than it already is.

KP

Bax
03/11/2004, 07:34 AM
KP

That's what I did. After the ammo dropped I wnet to 10% changes weekly. My nitrates soared for two to three weeks (30 -40). And now, approaching week four with TBS the nitrates are dropping again (20-30). Ammo 0 since week one. So some "easy" corals and maybe a fish soon!

Patients is a virtue, especially in this hobby.

kp1917
03/11/2004, 10:22 PM
Day 15 - It's almost over

Time: 7:50pm
Temp: 79.4 (lights have been on for a while)
Ammonia: barely a trace
Nitrites: .5
Nitrates: 20
PH: 8
Salinity: 1.0235

Checked Calcium for the first time around 360 to 400, kinda lost track but promise to do better next time.

Richard saw my numbers from day 13 and said he'd ship part II next week.

AWESOME!

KP

kp1917
03/13/2004, 02:12 PM
Day 17 3/13/04

Time 8:45am
Temp 79.0

Ammonia - a trace
Nitrites - .25
Nitrates - 10
PH - 8
Salinity 1.0235

Looking forward to Shipment number 2 this week!

KP

JEFFTHEREEFER
03/13/2004, 07:19 PM
Looking good kp---I am still stuck--I pulled rock out and found a couple of sponges to remove--also just went to fish store and bought some of the bio-spira----I hope i can finish my cycle this next week as i just found out I will be outta town for 3 weeks

kp1917
03/14/2004, 11:32 AM
Jeff,

With the Bio-Spira, I would do all of your rock cleaning, do a good water change then dump in the B-S and hope that your levels stay good enough so that you don't have to do another water change for a couple of days. I believe that you want the B-S to get a chance to get in, mixed up and attached to everything.

What are your levels now?

KP

JEFFTHEREEFER
03/14/2004, 05:22 PM
Im just shy of 1.0 Im holding at .8 I put it in 24 hrs ago, Hopefully it will hold until tomm night--Then i can turn on the old skimmer tomm---It looks like it helped you quite a bit Hoping for the same here--
I learned that i was to turn my skimmer off after adding the bacteria that richard sent me--After I had skimmed it all out--just my luck lol

kp1917
03/19/2004, 01:29 AM
Just got my second shipment in late this afternoon. It is awesome. Better than my expectations, and I was expecting a lot. For about a hundred dollars Richard put together a "Special Box of Stuff". I'll give a list on Friday.

I will try to send pictures on Monday when I get back to work. Stuff was all in the tank by 5 pm or so and at 11pm after changing three gallons of water I didn't have any ammonia. We'll see what happens tomorrow.

I will be adding on to this thread until I know that it is cycled (again).

KP