HELP with Durso sump silencer "T"

[socal-rich]

I have a 75 gallon tank, it had been drilled for a 1.5" drain, and the overflow box is 5"x5". My return pump is a Mag12 (plumbed to 1.5" then reduced to 1") which also feeds a 1/4 hp chiller (plumbed with 3/4" line). The drain pipe is 1.5" and is submerged a couple inches below the water level of the sump. The sump water level is about 6".

I built a 1.5" Stockman standpipe for it. The Stockman standpipe successfully silenced the overflowbox. The water level is high and stable (no fluctuations).

I have always had a noisy sump though (air traveling down the drain pipe and emptying into sump). Recently I have been trying to solve the "hot tub" sump problem because I have read others have been able to (I thought it was just me :p ).

I followed the drawing below, it helped a bit, but I still have LOTS of air entering the sump from the drain pipe.

http://www.hogben.org/mod.gif

I tried reducing the drain pipe to 1" but all it really did was increase the water level in the tank and make the overflow box work overtime.

I have the T much higher than the water level now, it seemed to reduce the bubbles a little more.

Others who have used the above drawing said it was successfull in silencing their sump.

What else could I try?

[kozmo02]

im in the same boat as you, my overflow is silent, but my sump has the hot tub problem.

i was told in the past "the standpipe is for overflow noise, for the sump noise you are on your own" i guess not too many people worry about the sump noise, but it bugs me, I'm gonna tag along and see what info i can get, I will try anything.

[MrSandman]

Hmm...if you still have those same parts available for the mod you did above, try reorganizing it in this manner and see if it works any better.

That pipe on the top part of the Tee doesn't even need to be there, but it might help minimize the amount of splashing and salt creep. Also, depending on the depth of your sump, you may want to try adding a section of PVC on the submerged end of the Tee as well. Hope this helps.

[socal-rich]

Thanks MrSandman I'll try that drawing also. I have used plumbing tape so far so its easy to disassemble and reconfigure.

I have also seen some drains that snake back and forth in an attempt to slow down the water I guess.

There is also the good ol' filter sock, but I'd rather not use one if I dont have to, ya know?

Also, one quick question, in your drawings you keep the T close to the water, is that on purpose? Maybe the reasoning why will give me a better understanding of what is happening.

[socal-rich]

I tried that new diagram out and it looks like a lot less bubbles, I can really feel the air pressure on the vent pipe.

I'm going to pick up another T tomorrow and see if I can fit another bend with a vent under the first to get the last of the air trapped in the water out.

Thanks again!

[MrSandman]

In the 1st photo you posted above, there really isn't any reason to place the Tee close to the water. However, in the 2nd picture, you really have no choice but to put the Tee close to the water since that is where the elbow is. Actually, the way my sump is plumbed, i have mine just like the 2nd photo and it works great. It really takes alot of the noise out. The 1st photo was just a quick attempt to try to show another way to try it. Let me know if the 2nd way works for you like it did for me.

[MrSandman]

Actually, now that i think about it it might work better if after the elbow you go to a larger diameter pipe for a short length then do the Tee mod like photo 2 w/ larger Tee's. The larger pipe will slow the water flow down and may get it slow enough so that the bubbles have more time to dissipate to the surface before being pushed down below the surface. Again, just throwing out ideas..which i haven't tried yet that you might want to consider.

[socal-rich]

thats also a great idea, I think slowing the water down is the key

I have been thinking smaller diameter drain pipe, but doesnt smaller diameter pipe increase the velocity? larger does seem to make more sense

its going to be a large pipe though as I am allready at 1.5" :D good thing I have a large sump

I also tried an S bend in the pipe with the vent at the top of the S, it was venting a lot, but still had a lot of bubbles draining

[socal-rich]

ok I followed your second picture, but did like yous said, after the elbow I increased the diameter of the pipe

I also capped the T and drilled a hole in it

this is the BEST I have seen it be, I think this is as good as it gets for now, very few bubbles, and very silent

http://www.hogben.org/drain.jpg

as a test I put my finger over the vent hole, and watched what it used to do, froth and gurgle and belch bubbles into the sump, when I released my finger from the hole a jet of air shot out! the is really some air pressure coming down this thing

anyways thanks for the help!

[polymorphus]

AHAHAH its the Stockman with Socal-Rich's hammer of doom sump silencer.

[socal-rich]

total hogbenation!

http://www.griffinminiatures.com/images/thor-10.jpg

[jun41]

Socal-Rich,

I tried that same diagram as the one you tried but I still have a couple things to iron out. How big is the hole in your cap? And also how tall is the cap from the tee? My cap isn't very far and when my the water starts flowing water starts shooting out and literally sounds like a toilet. I'm going to try lengthening it and see what will happen.

[jun41]

Still have bubbles. Does anyone know if this will work better in saltwater than freshwater? I'm still in the leak check phase but I figure saltwater acts totally different than freshwater(foams and what not). I hate when things don't work the way that you want. Time to go mix some salt water.

[yoink326]

After reading this I decided to make one. My drain was so bubbly that it was creating a skimming effect! So I guess it wasn't that bad. Anyways, it works like a charm so thanks guy. I didn't have an end cap, so the top of the Tee is just open, yet it's still silent. Any reason why I should put one on and drill a small hole in it?

[MrSandman]

Originally posted by jun41
Still have bubbles. Does anyone know if this will work better in saltwater than freshwater? I'm still in the leak check phase but I figure saltwater acts totally different than freshwater(foams and what not). I hate when things don't work the way that you want. Time to go mix some salt water.

Not sure if it will work better in saltwater when compared to freshwater...however, it will work differently. The size of the hole doesn't really matter...but the bigger the better, IMO. Again...this isn't the end all cure all to sump noise. You must take the necessary precautions to silence your tank via durso standpipes, stockmans, etc. This is really intended for those as a last resort once all other attempts have failed to silence the sump to the level you like. Kind of like the icing on the cake so to speak.

Notice how the water level of the sump is right at the center of the assembly. I'd say that this is the ideal position...however since many peoples sump levels fluctuate, i'd probably suggest that the water level not be any higher up on the assembly than this. If the assembly is submerged, it will not work as intended. If anything. I would suggest raising the assembly a bit higher up and extending the vertical pipe out of the Tee that goes down into the water. Play with this length to see what is the best. The deeper it goes, may work better.

[MrSandman]

Originally posted by yoink326
After reading this I decided to make one. My drain was so bubbly that it was creating a skimming effect! So I guess it wasn't that bad. Anyways, it works like a charm so thanks guy. I didn't have an end cap, so the top of the Tee is just open, yet it's still silent. Any reason why I should put one on and drill a small hole in it?

No reason really to put a drilled endcap on the end. I don't have one on mine and it works great. The only reason i could possibly see doing this is either to muffle the sound a bit more.......or to capture salt spray from the bubbles popping directly under the endcap.

[guitarfish]

I have a 75g and a Durso pipe. I experimented with all kinds of designs on the drain, and this was the only solution I ever came up with that worked. The outlet pipes point in the opposite direction of the return pump. My sump (30g) is a baffleless sump. There are a small amount of microbubbles that make it back into the 75g, but not enough to bother me.

http://www.eazall.com/dave/final%20drain2.jpg

[Nosferatu]

I just use a bunch of filter media, the white and blue kind you know. About 3 layers in the sump overflow chamber. Also i make sure my line is nice and straight so the water drains evenly down the sides of the overflow hose so it seems to cut into the water and not splash

[amygdala17]

Does anyone have updated links to the initial photos and diagrams that started this thread? I can see the pic of the last one, and it looks pretty good, I'll probably go that route, but would like to see all of the ideas so I pick the best setup for my tank.

[niteshado]

Yes I would like to see the diagrams again. I remember this post but didn't copy it and now also have the "spa" effect.

Larry

[amygdala17]

I bought the stuff for the last setup mentioned,the one picture for me that does show up. If I get it set up, I'll post my results.

[MrSandman]

I've got to dig around my PC and see if i can find the sketch i drew up. If i find it, i'll post it here ASAP. To make it, you just need a Tee and an elbow fitting and like a foot of extra PVC pipe.

[amygdala17]

Thanks MrSandman. This hobby is the best excuse ever to buy cool tools. I now have 20+ ft of PVC tubing of various diameters, T's, V's, 45* and 90* connnecters, reducers, etc. But best of all, I decided I _had_ to buy a dremel tool, and have been having a great time cutting, polishing, and drilling with it. Cordless too!

Oh, and just a reminder kids, use those safety glasses! I left mine off for a "quick" trim of a rough edge and got a fleck of PVC in my eye. Ouch!

[tygger]

Good idea, I may have to give it a shot.

[lakee911]

Anyone got the pics? Thanks!

[guitarfish]

PM me your email address, I'll send you some pics.

[bckane]

can someone send my photos....Im getting alot of splashing in my sump

[Snakebyt]

If someone will send me the pics, ill host them for the thread

[MrSandman]

Here is a diagram. HTH. For the record, there are limitations to this mod. If you have a very high rate of water flowing down your standpipes, you will probably have to extend that section of pipe submerged below the water. Even then, if the flowrate is too high, you may run out of real estate down below. However, it does work if done right.

http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/585/1531sumpsilencer.jpg

[MJAnderson]

Sandman,

just curious if you hang your plumbing? I had done this but drilled some holes near the bottom for the water to flow out since the PVC was resting on the bottom of the tank. Only problem is that I like throwing a filter sock on when I'm cleaning my tank to catch any gunk. Your pic seems to not touch. Wondering how much weight I can attach to the overflow bulkhead without support.

Thanks again. This worked great for me. 1" overflow to a 2" horizontal run to a 3" PVC tube...

[MrSandman]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8170005#post8170005 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by MJAnderson
Sandman,

just curious if you hang your plumbing? I had done this but drilled some holes near the bottom for the water to flow out since the PVC was resting on the bottom of the tank. Only problem is that I like throwing a filter sock on when I'm cleaning my tank to catch any gunk. Your pic seems to not touch. Wondering how much weight I can attach to the overflow bulkhead without support.

Thanks again. This worked great for me. 1" overflow to a 2" horizontal run to a 3" PVC tube...

Actually, that photo isn't representative of how i have it setup on my tank. I just drew it up that way for simplicity's sake. The way i have it plumbed on my tank was to go through a bulkhead on the sump. So technically it wasn't hanging. If the load from the plumbing is causing a large bending moment on the bulkhead attached to the bottom of the tank, then you may want to support the plumbing somewhat using pipe hangers or zip ties secured to the frame of the stand. If the load is directly in-line with the bulkhead (i.e. no offset loads or moments), then you can probably put quite alot of pressure on it w/o any problem.

Just like you i also run a mechanical filter on the output of my standpipe. However, it doesn't put much of a load on the plumbing since it is only a mesh filter bag like what people put carbon inside of. That would be a good alternative until you can secure your plumbing a little.

The filter bag also cuts down on the microbubbles, so its another good thing to run periodically. HTH.

[Snakebyt]

Pics were provided by guitarfish

http://www.snakebyt.com/rc/09-Next%20drain2.jpg

http://www.snakebyt.com/rc/DCP_3708.JPG

http://www.snakebyt.com/rc/DCP_3710.JPG

[TandN]

can someone please posts the pics again I can only see the pics in the last post before mine
Heres what I was planing to do please LMK if im doing it correct
gonna have a 1 3/4 inch drain then behind the tank have it upgrade to a 2" "T" top open for air to release and then 2" continues into the sump is this correct
TIA
T.

[SHOmuchFUN]

I'm having the same problems and would appreciate the pictures to be rehosted if someone has them.

[guitarfish]

Back by popular demand, LOL. I'm actually out of the hobby now, but this is what I came up with and it worked great for years. It splits the drain into two, made it quieter. I kept the water level so the outlets were submerged halfway. I also could hang a bag of carbon or other media right in front of the drains.

Because it pushed the return water in the opposite direction of the pump it cut down on micro bubbles too.
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y183/guitarfish/Fish/09-Nextdrain2.jpg

[guitarfish]

Another:
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y183/guitarfish/Fish/Drain2.jpg

[SHOmuchFUN]

Thanks guitar, I'm going to trim my drain so that it's right at the water level, rather than being completely submerged. I think that will help.

[Playa-1]

I agree http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/500/1588981531sumpsilencer_II.jpg

[Slakker]

How exactly does that work, you would use a reducer bushing from say 1" pvc to 1.25" pvc between the elbow and the T, or just a reducer T?

[MrSandman]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12773060#post12773060 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Slakker
How exactly does that work, you would use a reducer bushing from say 1" pvc to 1.25" pvc between the elbow and the T, or just a reducer T?

Wow, talk about a thread from the dead. Anyways, i would use the reducer bushing. The sooner you can use the larger pipe, the better. It gives a chance for the water to slow down more to allow the bubbles to dissipate. If you can go from 1" to 1.5" even better. :)

[Slakker]

Well, I figured since it was already revived I might as well get my questions in :) I finished setting up my first system with a sump a few weeks ago and have been struggling with noise/splashing/bubbles from the drain pipe pretty consistently.

I assume that if you have an issue with water/bubbles splashing out of the top of the T, you can just extend it with some rigid line?

Will this reduce the flow through the drain at all?

[MrSandman]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12773793#post12773793 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Slakker
Well, I figured since it was already revived I might as well get my questions in :) I finished setting up my first system with a sump a few weeks ago and have been struggling with noise/splashing/bubbles from the drain pipe pretty consistently.

I assume that if you have an issue with water/bubbles splashing out of the top of the T, you can just extend it with some rigid line?

Will this reduce the flow through the drain at all?

If you have bubbles/water coming out the top of the Tee you can do 2 things:

1. You can either extend the top of that tee even higher (but remember to leave it open at the top),
2. You can put a cap over the tee and drill a hole in the top of the cap to allow air to purge or you can also drill a hole and glue some airline tubing to the top of it and allow the air to bleed out.

Also, no this will not add any back pressure to the drain at all so flow will not be reduced. Just make sure that the hole you drill to allow air to flow out is large enough. Otherwise, it will restrict.

[Rockydog17]

Thanks for the great idea MrSandman. I followed 3 different threads and found your Silencing T. The bubble noise in the sump has been driving me crazy, tried different ways to no avail. Had spare plumbing parts left over from when I build my system and within 5 minutes I had a completely silent system.

Thanks again, Rocky

[gatorlover]

Hey Guys. Based on the "t" idea, I was wondering. I have a wet/dry sump with bioballs in it. The drain goes into the upper portion of the sump body. It is then dispersed using a piece of pvc that is about 5" long with slots cut in it. The slots are facing up, which is how it was setup by the previous owner.The water lands on a pre-filter(with slideout tray) and then drips down over the bio-balls. The drain water coming out of this slotted pvc pipe creates quite a bit of splashing and micro-bubbles which end up in my tank. How could I incorporate this method in my situation. My goal is two fold. 1-lower the noise level and 2-try to lower the amount of micro bubbles that I have going into my tank.

Thanks in advance

[jdjeff58]

I just did an expansion project which has enlarged my sump fuge. The new setup is draining to the new sump an adjacent room. I've been looking for solutions to my hot tub effect. I can't see any of the photos on here but I did incorporate a tee at the end of the line. I'd like complete silence, but I'm more concerned with the bubbles. There are zillions of them with the way I have this tee.

If I could see the 'modded' pics, that would be great. Anybody got some?

[SWINGRRRR]

google "reverse durso"

[sslak]

http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k173/rizzums/Fish/DSCF2303.jpg

This fixed my hot tub sump noise.
90 it.
Expand to larger pipe size to slow water.
T it.

[psykokid]

I tired the "reverse durso" on my tank and it didnt seem to help much. I ended up making a U shaped trap like you would see on the bottom of a sink that silenced it down to near nothing. I still get some bubbles coming out but no really loud sloshing or gurgling like i was getting before. It is made from 4 90's connected with 1" pieces of pipe to make a U in the drain line..

[sslak]

Well, I figured since it was already revived I might as well get my questions in :) I finished setting up my first system with a sump a few weeks ago and have been struggling with noise/splashing/bubbles from the drain pipe pretty consistently.

I assume that if you have an issue with water/bubbles splashing out of the top of the T, you can just extend it with some rigid line?

Will this reduce the flow through the drain at all?

Wow...just noticed this response in this thread...must be an old thread.

I miss you so much little bro...I wish you were still here with us. I think about you every day.

If you get subscribed thread upsates in heaven...you'll be happy to know I fixed your sump noise :thumbsup:

[jdjeff58]

Saw the reverse durso before. Seems like it's better at knocking down noise. Most of what I read, people still have the bubbles/microbubbles. I guess it's cheap enough to try. I just wanted to see the pics from this old thread. It almost looks like the only bubble free, water tight setup involves the Herbie method. But for me, that's a last resort.