Coil Denitrator

[JHardman]

OK, I will start off the thread...

After doing a fair amount of reading and some more reading what I finally came up with is that the more elaborate denitrators with containers and bio balls (or not) are not really needed, just the tubing.

So with that hopefully correct conclusion I stopped by HD tonight and put together one.

Parts list:

(4) 25' rolls of 1/4"OD semi-rigid plastic tubing. The same thing you would use to plumb a RO/DI unit only semi clear.

(3) Quick connect unions

(1) Quick connect "ball" valve (on hand).

Total cost <$20 with tax.

I left the tubing bundled together, took enough out of the first roll to reach a tank above (held in place by a clip). Started a siphon, the put a union on the end and connected it to the next roll and so on until the water was running thru all 100' of tubing. Then adding the ball valve on the end with a short section of tubing running beyond the valve. Place that end into the output of the skimmer.

I set a drip rate with the valve of about 1 drop per second.

Now we shall see if this works...

Sure was nice that the drain pipe was in just the right place to hold the rolls of tubing. :D
http://www.clownfishdirect.com/personal/cd1.jpg

Here is a close-up of one of the unions...
http://www.clownfishdirect.com/personal/cd2.jpg

[Dman]

Jhardman,
That's pretty much what I did, except that mine is not attached to my skimmer. Just one caveat, using clear or semi-clear tubing is a pain 'casue algae will grow inside the tubing and eventually block it off. Order the black stuff from www.usplastics.com
Dman

[Dman]

dragon slayer over in the DIY forum builds them for fellow RCers' and starting one up i read goes something like this:
Fill the tubing with water, let it sit for one week.
Add a couple of grains of sugar and let it sit for another week or two, then start it up.
Dman

[JHardman]

Originally posted by Dman
dragon slayer over in the DIY forum builds them for fellow RCers' and starting one up i read goes something like this:
Fill the tubing with water, let it sit for one week.
Add a couple of grains of sugar and let it sit for another week or two, then start it up.
Dman

I have heard/read that too, but it was always in reference to reef, aka low nitrate systems. I got the impression that with high nitrate level tanks that the addition of sugar and a total off time to start wasn't really needed, maybe I am wrong, but that was the impression I got.

The algae that grows in that system does great in the dark, so having black tubing wouldn't help, only make it hard to find the blockage.

So how well has yours been working? Numbers are most helpful…

[rsman]

in the end you will more likely need the container of bio balls, its a total nitrogen load thing, in a normal tank when these are setup there are generally high nitrates but the day to day increase is minimal, so once the coil kicks in the nitrates drop and the coil has enough surface area to knock out all the nitrate, in a breeding system thats not the case (ok at least not in mine)

with .170 tubing you can easily get away with 2 50' runs

when cycling to speed up the cycle, let them run full open for a few days then crank them down you really want about 8ml in 3:30sec for the 100' run and 8ml in 5:00 for the 50' run ive rounded those up :D then once the unit has cycled you need to slowly speed that up as the nitrate drops. and without the bio ball chamber it will be required of you to adjust the flow based on the nitrates/nitrites coming out of the coils. nitrite == speed up, nitrate == slow down.

[rsman]

DS definately does these for reefs, :D but he is cool!!!

messing with sugar will only tend to agrivate you !!!

definately dont go dark for the algae :) darn stuff grows everywhere :D

[JHardman]

Originally posted by rsman
in the end you will more likely need the container of bio balls, its a total nitrogen load thing, in a normal tank when these are setup there are generally high nitrates but the day to day increase is minimal, so once the coil kicks in the nitrates drop and the coil has enough surface area to knock out all the nitrate, in a breeding system thats not the case (ok at least not in mine)

with .170 tubing you can easily get away with 2 50' runs

when cycling to speed up the cycle, let them run full open for a few days then crank them down you really want about 8ml in 3:30sec for the 100' run and 8ml in 5:00 for the 50' run ive rounded those up :D then once the unit has cycled you need to slowly speed that up as the nitrate drops. and without the bio ball chamber it will be required of you to adjust the flow based on the nitrates/nitrites coming out of the coils. nitrite == speed up, nitrate == slow down.

This is on my growout system which has high nitrates in the >100ppm to <300ppm range. It is fed heavily multiple times each day, so I don't think there is going to be a problem with nirtate production. ;)

I really don't think the black tubing is going to be the end all for my algae. Really the stuff that grows in this system only grows where it is dark with lots of flow.

[rsman]

guess i botched that reply

what I was trying to say is black tubing wont help.

I figured you would be using it on a system full of nitrates :D but thats when that bio chamber is needed, clearly i didnt make that clear either. :D

incase I totally hozed it you DO need to test the output ocasionally and adjust it if you find either nitrites or nitrates

[Fredfish]

Hmm... If it grows in total darkness is it really algae. I thought all algae was phototrophic (sp?).

A little off topic, I know, but inquiring minds want to know. :D

rsman. Do you really do zero water changes in your hatchery setup?

Fred.

[Fredfish]

Oh yea, another question. If light on the tubing isn't an issue, is there really any need to put the tubing inside a pvc tube/container. What jhardman did seems a lot more strait forward.

Fred.

[rsman]

one advantage of putting the tubing IN the container is you pick up bio surface and keep everything together, but that tube/container does serve a dual purpose, if done right (badly worded, umm if you set one up with the bio chamber??) the coils will only remove oxygen, the tube will house the bacteria that actually removes the nitrate, the increased surface area and decreased oxygen allow for systems with sustained high nitrate levels to have an effective denitrifier.

as for algae in the dark, if it looks like a duck, flys like a duck, sounds like a duck it must be a duck right :D i donno what I get, but it blocks the black tubes just as fast as the opaque(same type Jhardman used) tubes

I dont do any routine waterchanges on the SW *FISH* side of my setup. a while ago i had to add coils to my coil denitrifier to keep up, and for the last few months ive been busy doing all sorts of things, including expanding so i do have new water.

[rsman]

btw some co2 and acrylic beads make good tube cleaners if the coils are unwound a tad, also unwinding reduces resistance.

[Fredfish]

It is indeed a duck, just might be a bacterial duck instead of an algae duck. I know, its a moot point :rolleyes:

I understand that the coils, if put inside a container, add surface area, but there are other ways to create surface area as well. (bioballs, plastic beads etc.). Darn, I knew there was a reason I sould have kept those bioballs.

It seems from a maintenance point of view - like if you have to slightly uncoil your tubing to unclog it - it would be easier to keep the coils external to your denitrator.

Fred.

P.S. rsman, thanks for sharing your wealth of info on setting up a breeding system. Between you and jhardman I have learned so much.

[rsman]

i know i mentioned it somewhere but my coils ARE outside the chamber also. a huge advantage of outside coils is you can add coils to expand the unit and when there is a stuburn clog you can work that area a little, I havent had too much clog problems in a while sence i started using a micron pre filter donno what size ive forgoten :( ill have to see if i posted that its not too small i can see the holes :D

[Wild Card-inal]

Wow, this is pretty interesting... Few questions, though.

1. I suppose this requires a system under the tank, right?
2. How do you clean a tube without having to re-cycle the system?

[rsman]

1. nope you can set one up to have a powerhead in the tank deliver the water to the coil then to the sealed bio chamber then back to the tank

2. you dont "clean" the tube, you want it dirty, well you want bacteria on it. you only unclog the tube. if you use co2 to help unclog the tube (alone or with an acrylic ball) the bacteria will not be harmed

[Dman]

1. I suppose this requires a system under the tank, right?

I think you might be able to run one off a powerhead, but gravity is a sure fire thing :D

2. How do you clean a tube without having to re-cycle the system?

You could just cut out the section that is blocked and join it together?

Can you use a nice neoprene tubing? If you can then all you would have to do is rub the spots where it's clogged.

Dman

[Wild Card-inal]

If you use a powerhead, won't the flow be too fast? If the input is many gallons per hour, and the output is only a drop or two per second, won't the pressure just build up and up? I don't really understand...

Neoprene tubing? How much more expensive would that be?

Sorry, this is some of the first I've heard of these systems, and I'm not really sure how they work.

[rsman]

neoprine is probibly a bad idea, but I dont know for sure,

clogs really are not that common.

you would put a bypass on your powerhead some of the water would go to the coils the rest would not. a simple T with 2 valves on it will do. on My setup my sump pump provides pressure to the coil but the output is back to the sump so there is little pressure on the coil. also the drops per second is when its cycling you can open it up much more once the unit is cycled ***just do it slowly***

[Wild Card-inal]

Oh, I get it now! I dunno if I've ever seen a T-valve that attaches to a powerhead like that, I kinda wanna see pics so I know what to get... In a set-up with a powerhead, would it be possible that the end regulating the drops actually gets pushed off by the pressure, or am I being paranoid?

[rsman]

paranoid

the pressure drop of the length of the coil makes that impossible.

it doesnt have to be fancy the ventri valve that comes with most pumps will do it put something on the end to increase resistance also several powerheads will fit standard plumbing stuff so just go to your local hardware/plumbing store and stare at things for a moment when you see what you think will work check it for size and itll work.

[Rurouni Kenshin]

what does this thing do?

[Dman]

Rurouni Kenshin,
The length of the hose is supposed to create an aerobic zone towards the end of it that feeds off of Nitrates NO3. When setup properly they're supposed to abolish water changes to that of trace element replacement. But like so many other things in this hobby, they can be tricky to size and tweak. (Not unlike my wife somedays :D)
Dman

[Rurouni Kenshin]

Dang! I gotta get one of those! if i make it like above will i have sucess?

[Wild Card-inal]

The venturi is that opening that allows the powerhead to suck in air through tubing, right? So if I stick the tubing in that way and have the other end with the valve underwater, does that mean water will get pulled in, go through the tubing, and come out the powerhead? :confused:

Jeez, with all these questions I think I would even annoy myself... :lol:

[purplehaze]

Originally posted by Dman
Rurouni Kenshin,
The length of the hose is supposed to create an aerobic zone towards the end of it that feeds off of Nitrates NO3.

You mean anaerobic zone...:D

[Dman]

Actually I think it's anoxic.
Dman

[rsman]

yep anoxic

The venturi is that opening that allows the powerhead to suck in air through tubing, right? So if I stick the tubing in that way and have the other end with the valve underwater, does that mean water will get pulled in, go through the tubing, and come out the powerhead

well you got the part right, but the direction is backwards to get a better picture set one up, then plug your finger so that say 50% of the output out of the normal jet (where the air water mix would come from) now instead of it sucking in air, water is going to squirt all over the wall behind your tank so make sure you point it up :D it only sucks in air when the water is going fast, slow it down and it goes in reverse.

[Wild Card-inal]

So... how would I slow the pressure down so this system can work?:confused:

[rsman]

thats how a bypass valve works,

on your finger over the output example, block more and the pressure increases, block less and the pressure decreases it just so happens that if you remove enough pressure it goes in reverse(sucking thru the venturi instead of blasting water out it) a little, its not high enough of a vacume to run a coil from though. you would supliment that with a valve as you dont wanna sit there 24/7 with your finger in the tank, the valve is the plumbing, your finger is the example.

that note and the fact that none of the impeller pumps are really pressure pumps, which means you dont really have to decrease it that much.

[Wild Card-inal]

LoL, I think I might need to see some diagrams so I know how all the valves and stuff would hook up. I don't really know what a bypass valve thing is. :lol:

[rsman]

maybee this will help

some important notes

dont submerge the return line you wanna be able to see the water coming out

that triangle on the return is the best i could think of for a needle valve, the ones that you use for airstones work great for a single or 2 coils, more than that and you should consider putting the valves before the coils

that box with a oval over it is supposed to represent a valve it didnt get labeled

the orientation of the pump does not matter

any kind of T with a reducer will work between the powerhead and that valve

[Dlckwood]

Hey, all of this sounds really interesting. In the beginning you said you have read many things on it? Is there a special term I should look up or any books with this information? Thanks
DLCKWOOD:p

[rsman]

look in older '70's waste water treatement books, thats where I found tons of stuff. there are newer additions but the basics are covered well there, also there are a few sites covering them. try googling i have not had the need to in a while. i have about 200 pages of handwriten notes on the subject, they have not been cleaned up so there is probibly 50 pages worth of dup info :D there are tons of things like formulas for resistance of the coil, based on ID and the diameter of the coil, how much water will go thru the coil, how much will be processed by that coil....... info on oxygen and co2 most of which is way over my head :D tons of info on cycling the coil and sizing the coil to insane flow rates i vaguely recall as high as 10,000gph !!! things you can do to decrease the length of the coil (like tubes filled with bio balls) sizing the denitrification chamber itself.....

[Dman]

Ahh, to drag this thread back from the dead.
Any thoughts on THIS (http://www.aquaticeco.com/index.cfm/fuseaction/product.detail/iid/4912/cid/1387) system?
If it works it would be even easier to maintain than a coil. And probably fairly easy to build.
Dman

[rsman]

ive seen that system before, its not all that different from a few aquamedic units in the end the coil is much less work

once your coil is cycled its almost no work left, you have to inspect regularly and the very ocasional cleanings thats it. once the coil is cycled you open the valve significantly and that alone keeps the clogs down. that system needs feeding, and other routine chores.

[Dman]

thanks, rsman.
That throws THAT idea out the window!
Dman

[rsman]

if it means much the aquamedic units are 1/3rd that price and only 1/2 the volume so there is some savings there.

[Atticus]

RSMan,

I noticed you stated something about tubes with bioballs in them. Have you ever tried a setup like that as in theory it seems it would greatly reduce the length of tube required and I have a ton of bioballs just sitting around... :D

[rsman]

I did try it.

I thought it sounded awesome, but it didnt work out for ME. if I had stuck with it or planed on using them I probibly coulda made it work, as it turned out I ended up breaking 1 and constantly triping over the other. as it is my coils wrap around 4 big pegs on one end of my larger stands, then kinda snake around 14' away to the bio chamber.

[rsman]

ok so sometimes the brain cells in my head rub together a little late

another denitrator (http://www.aquaticeco.com/index.cfm/fuseaction/product.detail/iid/4915/cid/1386)
if your not into DIYing your own. ive had good results with one of these, not on my breeding setup, but on two of my display tanks. consider it just like a protein skimmer, over rated by about 200% when using in a breeding setup

[rsman]

so JHardman it seems like its been 2 weeks so whats your driprate how much nitrate in the source and output water, and any nitrite ???

[olin]

I've tried the coil denitrators and have had great success...until they clog. And they always do. What happens is that the bacteria secrete a biofilm which is an exopolysaccharide (snot) which continues to grow until there is no more space. I made a super simple denitrator that has been working like a charm for over a year with no troubles, and a has few benefits over the coils. I just took a salt bucket, and stood up a 3 foot section of 3" PVC with a "T" connector on the bottom. I filled the bucket with silica play sand. Then I just started a siphon from the tank with airline tubing into the stand pipe. The water runs down the pipe and slowly percolates up through the fine sand. There is a huge amount of surface area here and the water can channel itself around obstructions. The added height of the pipe can give extra pressure from gravity if there are clogs. I placed mine in my sump so the filtered water just runs over the sides of the bucket, but a drilled overflow at the top could also be easilly be used. Since I added this, my tanks are at 0 nitrates (Even my clownfish growout systems). About a year ago, I changed the media to sugar sized aragonite, and now I don't have to add calcium anymore either because the low pH dissolves the CaCO3! Total cost with the silica sand was $8. I just replace the 2 foot airline tubing now and then when the flow slows. No H2SO4 or odor have been noted either.

[Fredfish]

Interesting setup olin. I can't quite picture how the 3' section of pipe works. Is it full of water (I asume so)? If so, how to you control the water level inside the pipe? Is the pipe capped at the top?

Also, do you prefilter the water to keep particulate matter from acumulating in the sand?

Hmm. This opens up some interesting posibilities.

Fred.

[olin]

Oh, yeah, I also made the top 3" into a refugium be putting in some bits of small LR and an airstone and a handful of LS from the tank on top of the sand. Tons of pods!

[olin]

Hi Fred, the PVC is just stuck in the sand to the bottom of the bucket. The airline siphon just runs into it, so the water finds its own level. This could even be done without the pipe just by running an airline siphon straight to the bottom of the bucket, I just used the pipe because I figured the airline might get clogged with sand and when the airline needs replacing, it is easier than digging through sand. Also, the added height will give extra pressure if the filter gets slow to trickle. As the water backs up in the pipe, it gets higher and forces its way down again. I haven't had mine slow down in over a year, so the pipe is probably optional. Yes, thanks for reminding me, I do wrap some filter floss (Heater filter material- the blue/white stuff) around the intake to minimize particulates.

[Dman]

olin,
pics please, I think I have an idea, but I want to (like everything else in this hobby) make sure. The 2 foot airlinme tube is just that, the 1/4 inch stuff, right?

My original idea was to string three house filters together, fill'em with a bio material, like bio-balls or those ceramic thingies the Fluval uses and let 'er rip.

Dman

[Fredfish]

OK, makes sense now.

Did you have to start you have to start your denitrator the way rsman did, or did you just start the syphon and leave it alone?

Fred.

[rsman]

im a big fan of coil denitrators over most alternatives, Id like to think that my being a fan is based on both personal experience and the research ive done on/with them. hopefully its not to based on my experience alone. I dont build them for others, I dont sell them, I just like removing nitrate by any means other than waterchanges. there acually are better methods, but some are very cost prohibitive and most both IME and in research require more maintanence. as a single example there is one used by food fish farmers that uses electrical plates it removes all nitrogen in any form in a single pass, though those plates need power, and the evaporation is increased dramatically, and normal replacement parts need to be on hand ..... it becomes less in the interest of a small time breeder (im guessing here but id say that as fish breeders every single ornamental breeder either the guy in the garage like me or the nice people at ORA are a small scale breeder compared to many food fish farmers)

now after kinda putting my point of view out there, the bucket full of sand aproach has been done before, and along with its advantages it has some disadvantages, one of which is it will create fine pathways or channels that the water will travel thru and this will cause the bed to crash, eventually. there are some work arounds and replacing the sand from my recollection is the best followed by mechanical stirring(memory of broken units pops to my head). I dont know that it needs to be done yearly or not, and ill guess that like many things it depends on things that are hard to compare like the quality of the input water, input rate, size of the chamber .....

now after stating that it might work well for a very long time in a fish breeding setup, but I like the coil still, as for it always cloging thats not really true, its close, but not really true, if the feed rate is high enough and a bio chamber is used, the chances of input tube cloging are significantly reduced, and to some point eleminated. ive been using a coil on a single tank without any maintenence for about 4 years now, though the bio load is nothing like a SW breeding setup, its a 55g FW tank with a handfull of platties :D its still running, and has been just fine.

as for cycling them you still have to cycle them, but it wont take as long and you dont actually have to do anything, just expect a short period of time before they start working.

[olin]

I agree, coil denitrators are a great way to go. I've been experimenting with them for years and they work great. In my systems which are heavilly stocked and very well fed, the heterotrophic bacteria like vibrio and pseudomonas predominate in the coils, and unfortunately, these are the biofilm makers. They also competitively inhibit the more beneficial nitrogen fixing bacteria, so in my tanks the coils quit too soon. I've experimented with flow rates, and in order to keep the biofilms down, the flow rates had to be increased to the point that the exiting water was microaerobic rather than the desired anaerobic/anoxic. So in my systems, they worked well but required too much maintenence for a lazy guy like me. But there are tons of systems and numerous "right" ways to do things. It is just a matter of finding what is best for your biosystems. As for the physics and microbiology of the sand system, in my opinion, the channelling is a desired effect. The water trickles through numerous channels, and passive diffusion and microbial cilliary beating moves nutrients out of the channels and into deeper portions of the sand where it is broken down into N2 (g), just like in live rock. I've checked this with ISE and culture. The sand seems to be "self stirring, as N2 bubbles out, the flow dynamics adjust and the nutrient flow varies from day to day between the different portions of the bucket. This may be due to the large amount of nitrate available for fixation, but I imagine it would work in most systems at different rates according to load.
As for the tubing, yes, just 1/4" tubing is the stuff. I don't have a digital cam yet (but the new Nikon D70 is looking hard to resist!!!) but I will try to borrow one. As for cycling, I just washed the sand and started the flow. Let the microbes do the rest. Every now and then I add a pinch of sugar to the standpipe. Don't know if it helps, but seems to kick phosphates down a bit. Maybe it's just wishful thinking....

[Fredfish]

I do like discussions that get me thinking. Ok, here goes.

rsman. I am continually impressed with your level of knowledge and the amount of research you have done. That example form the aquaculture world is cool. I did some digging around at a couple of local universities on aquaculture stuff but never came across any sources that provided a lot of practical info.

Olin. What size system are you filtering with your bucket. I am starting with 1 40 gallon tank and 2 pairs of fish (clowns & bangai) so I suspect I don't need a very big bucket.

On the sand bucket approach, what if you set it up like a fluidized sand bed filter (sealed of course) with a recirculating pump that you could cycle daily/weekly/monthly for a few minutes to stir up the sand. this should eliminate any long term channeling issues or clogging.

I don't know if this would be disruptive to the bacteria. I generaly think of bacteria as very hardy souls, but fluidizing the sand may disrupt the beneficial biofilms.

I suppose that stirring a little once a year might be a more practical approach though.

You could take this a little further and attempt to use a deep sandbed as a denitrator, but thats a discussion for another forum.

Fred.

[olin]

The system I have it on is a 90g parental tank, inline with from 4-8 20g growout tanks. I think the stirring thing every 6 mos-1yr might be best. You don't want to disturb the reduced oxygen areas too much. I kind of picture what is going on as this thing just being a 5 gallon chunk of live rock except the grains aren't fused. You have areas with active water flow, and others where it is static.

[rsman]

ive spent tons of hours searching/reading/banging head on desks ....

the bacteria isnt really hardy, and will become detatched easily, its one of many reason the bio chamber at the end of the coils works better.

with a 5gal bucket and only 250g total its possible it could take decades to have problems, its something I cant answer. those dead spaces outside of the channels are bad things. more so when the channels start to straighten out, at that point the bucket will luckly only fail to work. at some point those dead spaces will create H2SO4.

[Fredfish]

Hmm. Lets see if this sums up what you guys are saying.

Coil denitrator. Harder to start up and possibly more maintenance, but more controlled and less likely to crash.

Gravel bucket denitrator. Cheaper and easier to to set up and run but some risk of crash in the long run.

If I were to use a coarser sand or gravel, would that not increase difusion within the bucket and reduce the risk of a crash?

Fred.

[rsman]

i think the problem is you havent done it :bounce1:

its not really hard to do either, and the amount of work is soo minimal, to properly cycle both takes time, and a new coil is more likely to clog, the needle valve needs to be partially closed alowing almost anything to clog it, but its not really "hard" to check that water is dripping, nor is it "hard" to clean out the needle valve, once its cycled depending on the setup the needle valve can be removed, or mostly wide open and becomes less likely to clog. it still needs to be checked often, but thats clearly not "hard" its a simple is water coming out or not! with a well built and cycled coil its almost impossible to have water going in the in and out the out and have problems when its broken its clear where and what to do to fix it. with a bucket of sand it could create enough of those channels that it crashes, if that happens how are you going to know?? the dead fish?? thats a bad idea so whats next ?? if it were a DSB you could see the sides of the bed change, you cant see the sides of the bed if its in a bucket:( so your stuck manually stiring or replacing the sand bed, though its not really hard its maintenance, then there is the issue of how much do you stir, mix it up too much and you have to re-cycle the unit, along with getting a significant die-off, dont mix it enough and whats next it crashes and your in the same boat :( and you still have to monitor the output to make sure it doesnt stop. for whatever reason (murphy's law rules!!!)

the larger the sand size the more it takes and the slower the flow needs to be, your better off picking a size like recomended for a DSB.

to add to this, just today I finished building a new coil for another tank I have that doesnt have one, I took tons of pics, and will get a day by day and a "how to" thing done ill have some of it *maybe* in 2 weeks but I wont have it all for probibly 6 ish as the day to day ill list for the entire cycle time. its a small unit but the model will work for any size.

[WmTasker]

OK ... Jumping on the bandwagon here. I was planning on putting both a calcium reactor and de-nitrator coil on my reef. My question is ... Since the water leaving the reactor is already high in CO2 and low in O2, wouldn't it be easy to have that then fed into the denitrator? since the CO2 is high and the O2 is low, would I need 100ft of tubing? I was planning on having it fed into something that would help raise the O2 back to normal after that. Let me know what anyone thinks of this.

[rsman]

water in a ca reactor is not low in O2 its just high in CO2, however the coil's output is low in O2 and high in CO2, so you could put that into your ca reactor.

[Fredfish]

i think the problem is you havent done it

Hee, hee...

Yup. I'll be getting around to it soon. Need to drill my 2 40s so I can plumb them into a common sump first though. Need someplace to put that denitrator.

Fred.

[mattjk]

bump

[rsman]

is there a reason for the bump?? other than its a cool thread :D :D

if there is a new question, or further input requested, request it.

FWIW ive had my coil un attached to the majority of my breeding setup for about 3 weeks now (unrelated issues) my nitrates are out of the world, gona have to put it back asap. water changes aint gona happen too $$$$

[radiata]

Olin,

I've got two questions about your bucket ---

(1) What is the flow rate you're running through it?

(2) Is the bucket sealed (and exits through a small diameter pipe/tube), or does it just overflow back into the system from the highest water level in the bucket?

I really like (what I understand about) the design --- thanks for sharing.

Thanks in advance,
Bob D.

[WmTasker]

rsman ... did you ever get pics and the new coil on your tank? You said you were going to tell day to day about the cycle of it. Any updates?

[Tommyc]

JD.....haven't heard from you since you started this thread.... how's yours going? good? bad? ugly?

Tom

[rsman]

got things done, have pics, and text and a calculator (.xls) to help, but have been really busy, shud be able to get to it in the next few weeks


sorry :(

[olin]

Hi Bob, haven't checked this thread in a while...It is an open system, the water just flows over the side. Flow rate I haven't measured exactly, but it is around than 10-15 gallons/day. Just a super slow trickle.

[olin]

Ok, this is a little random, but I recently recieved a nice e-mail from somebody regarding this thread about the same time my DNS was changing, so I lost emails that hadn't downloaded to outlook yet! I just had a moment to skim the message so I don't remember who it was from...So if you recently e-mailed me and I didn't write back, I'm not trying to blow you off :) Drop me another line and I will get back to you.
Thanks, Olin

[radiata]

Originally posted by olin
...So if you recently e-mailed me and I didn't write back...Hi Olin,

I just sent another email...

Bob D.

[weefishman]

Very interesting thread, thanks guys for contributing so much of your time and research to this thread and hobby. Just wondering if it would be ok to routinely open the valve completely for a few seconds to help flush out any build ups of slime or film from bacteria. Maybe just drain this water into a separate container and throw it out. Would this kill the denitrifying bacteria or damage the colonies? Just wondering. Thanks again guys for all the info.

-Jonny

[rsman]

if you built it right, that valve should be open 100% all the time

once the unit is cycled you should open it slowly over a period of 2~4 weeks.

if it wasnt built right and that valve is the "fix" then it wont hurt anything to open it up to clean it out.

that valve is only important while cycling the unit.

[weefishman]

Cool thanks.

-Jonny

[rsman]

after re reading and the fact that i havent been responging in a while, i figured its probibly best to clear something up

DONT leave that valve full open right away for a long time, even if you have had it forever. if it was not full open then after "cleaning" you will still want to slowly open it up. over the period of at least 2 weeks. take it slow and only bad things happen fast and all that .....

[mattydub]

where is Jhardman in all of this? I'd like to see some results! rsman...you're reputation is credible at worst, highly respectable most of the time...just wish I knew 1/2 of what you know and perhaps I could figure things out! Thanks for all the info...

[danfishman]

Sorry to bring up an old thread but what have the results been for you people who tried it and did RSMAN ever get those photos up,

Thanks Dan

[spk]

Facinating read. I am in the process of building a breeding system and looking at using bio balls, but this coil sounds wonderful.

Would love to see the pics and also more information on what pipe you used for the coil. I am in Minneapolis next week and then SFO after that, so will try and get all that I need vefore returning to the UK.

Shopping list and places to get please folks.

Thanks
Steve

[Kathy55g]

Steve, the coils are for nitrification removal of nitrate(without oxygen). Bioballs in a trickle are good for denitrifying the dredded ammonia (these bacteria work best with lots of oxygen). Just thought you might not have caught that. Denitrification is essential, nitrification is a nice to have. Nitrates aren't that dangerous in a fish only system, however, you said something about coral propagation, so probably you want both. If you were already aware, my bad.

K

[Dman]

Well, mine didn't work. Actually I've built two of them and niether have worked so far. Not sure what I've done wrong, I consider myself fairly cognizant when it comes to following directions, so I have no idea other than it must be beyond me.
Dman

[spk]

Kathy,

Thanks for the remnder. I do have an Aquamedic Nitrate reductor (new word???) but I do not believe that it would cope with the volume of water that I am talking about. I will have a trickle tower of sorts too. That way I can achieve both I hope.

Steve

[Kathy55g]

Sorry Steve, I had not read the entire thread when I wrote that post.

[szeth13]

instead of puting bio balls, can you use calcium reactor media? will this have a positive affect? what type of pumps are you talking about to feed these things? maxi jets? would an aqua lifter work? if not, can you show me a pic of this T and valve assembaly? how much tube would i need for my 20 gallon reef tank? for my 75 south american cichlid tank?

[rsman]

i posted a response to szeth13 at http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=7018006#post7018006

should anyone else desire the response that isnt following that thread.