Sump, algae, refuge layout

[sjvl51]

I am planning on replacing my present sump this summer and I am looking for opinions.

Most sump layouts that I have looked at show the water entering the sump, going through mechanical (filter floss, carbon, phosphate remover, etc) filtration and pick up for skimmer (some recommend skimmer pick up first and then mechanical filtration) then through the algae/refuge chamber and then back to the tank.

I'm wondering if it would make more sense to have all the tank water going into a refuge area (like Frick-n-Frag shows here http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=400901 ) first as a sort of pre-sump. This would allow the algae to remove most of the nutrients (phosphates, etc) before we chemically remove them. The algae should grow faster (having more phosphates, etc) and the chemical remover should last longer. The algae would become the main method to "clean" the water while the chemical remover and skimmer would be the back up to remove what the algae did not.

Does this make sense? Should I go back to the drawing board?

Vickie

[beaslbob]

Makes sense to me. But then I do filter before the water enters the refug area. That way the big ugly stuff is trapped and can be broken down by the aerobic bacteria. And of course exported every couple of weeks or so. Then the algae can work in the phosphates and nitrates and stuff.

IMO your observations about the skimmer and algae are right on. I have heard reports that after the algae is established, the skimmer produces less and less skimmate. But then I don't use a skimmer anyway.

[sjvl51]

Thanks, Bob. I don't know if I will ever be brave enough to go without a skimmer but you never know. :)

Vickie

[beaslbob]

vickie

don't know about bravery but most just say I am ignorant :D

you might try a really simple experiment. take a small container, put some chaeto in it along with some tank water change water. And see what happens. You might be suprised how clear the water remains.

[sjvl51]

Bob, right now my water is so cloudy that I'm thinking of using floss. I just put a pistol shrimp/watchman goby combo in the tank. I knew the shrimp dug tunnels but I had NO idea that he was that industrious!!!!! He has so much sand in the water column from his digging that the water looks like it is badly in need of change. All the lr now have a thin layer of sand on them. LOL I don't think the chaeto will help that. I'm not sure what this will do to my deep sand bed.

On a more serious note - I have about 15 mangroves started with grape caulpera and another caulpera in my refuge. I have a small bunch of chaeto in my sump. I took the tang heaven (red & green) and ulva out and put them in a separate tank (not connected to the system) since I wanted them to grow to feed to the tang.

The grape caulpera used to fill my refuge to the point that I would harvest half every two weeks. Then I added the other stuff. Now it is hardly growing. The other macro algae started to grow good and then tapered off which is why I moved the stuff that I wanted to grow.

I have another tank (60 gal) to add to this system this summer which is why we will redo the sump (25 gallon won't be big enough so we will be going to a 50 gallon). We also want to tear down the refuge and put a second bulkhead in or put a bigger bulkhead in to increase the flow.

We are also toying with the idea of a second refuge (the present on is gravity feed to the display tank for the mandarin) before the sump - the point behind this post.

After all these changes, and when the tank is stablized (another 6 months or so) then I might consider gradually eliminating the skimmer. I think there are too many planned changes to add another one to the mix but I do appreciate your advice.

Vickie

[beaslbob]

vickie

understand completely. thats why I only change one thing at a time.

Nothing like a good old sand storm HUH? hopefully it will settle down.

Sound like hte mangroves really really took the nutrients out of the system. When the nutrient levels drop (to 0.0) the macros simply slow down their growth rates. So could be time to add more nutrients. Gee that is wierd. Add livestock to correct a problem? But such things happen when considering plant life. After all the slower growth rates could also mean less carbon dioxide consumption and less filtering of toxins. But that is the way it goes.

Sound like you have good tanks and a good plan.

[sjvl51]

Thanks, Bob. We'll see how it goes with all the changes.

Vickie

[cabin]

I have the refugium plumbed before the sump, and it is working very well. I have two overflow tubes, I put one into the refugium and one into the sump. I am just getting started with macroalgae, only have a small amount right now, will be getting more. The overflow box is a CPR which comes with two large-holed sponge filters. I was worried about those at first, and removed them, but the noise as pretty high so I put them back, and it seems to be ok. I do clean them out every other week. My only problem is cyanobacteria, but it is not too bad, and I'm hopeful that as I get the macroalgae established, it will improve. The skimmer used to produce a lot when the setup was new, but doesn't anymore.

[sjvl51]

Thanks, Cabin. It sounds like I'm on the right track. Now to get all those changes done :) and the system stablized.

Vickie