Clams Questions...

[Herbert T. Kornfeld]

I ordered the 'ultra-grade crocea 2.5"-4" a few weeks ago when they were offering them at a $30 special. I ordered 3...but they were out. They did get them in and shipped out my order....BUT...Fed Ex really bungled it up. First, instead of overnight, due on the 14th, there was a hold up in indianapolis and they didnt get to me until the 15th. On top of that, when I called for the package tracking, and told them what was in the package, they told me that they would track the package and give me an update. In their brilliance, they decided that they should do me a favor and put the package in the COOLER to keep them until today....***?!!? I told them that was a boo boo. anyways, after telling them multiple times just to return the package to sender, they left the package on my doorstep, without even a signature taken. Long story short, after 36+ hours in a box and who knows how cold before they pulled them out temps...they are in a 5 gallon bucket now (1 gallon water), in an 80degree room, with a 60gph powerhead, and a PC fixture over. I will post pics later.

My question is...will they make it? They arent tore up from the floor up, but their water was pretty dirty, and they dont look in the best shape I have seen... How can I tell if they are gonners? How long until I know for sure? Is my holding procedure a smart idea (just a bucket? Maybe I will throw a couple chunks of LR and some macro in there for filtration)? What can I expect?

[Herbert T. Kornfeld]

heres a look. They have all come out. FWIW the 'mouth' on the left one is opening and closing...sometimes quite a bit....but the other two have their mouths just gaping wide open.

[Herbert T. Kornfeld]

oh, duh...
http://www.nano-reef.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=2874&size=big&password=&sort=1&cat=503

[reefcrazed]

Too early to tell, but they like darn good to me so far!

[Charlie Davidson]

Looks like a good deal to me!!! Nice clams. Shipping by fed-ex is usually good! how much with shipping?

[Herbert T. Kornfeld]

it was about $130 with shipping from what I remember...today, the small one on the left seems most active and 'whole'. When I walked near the bucket he let out a blast of water that hit me in the belly three feet above!!! his 'mouth' seems to be more active. The other two seems less active. Sure, they open and close, but rather slowly...w/o water jets!

Now, forgive me, as I am new to clams, but tell me...what should I be checking? The foot? the mouth? the mantle? Some bysal thread thingie (could someone explain?)? FWIW, the center one, gold color one, has some really big chunks taken from it's mantle. So far, it just seems like the smaller one on the left is doing better...but am I missing something here?

[Herbert T. Kornfeld]

I knew some mod would see the 'foster&smith' in the thread title and try moving this thread. Hey, MOD, move this thread back into the clam forum so I can get some help! The only thing that has to do with a vendor here is the fact that I bought them from one. this is not a vendor feedback...it is a plea for help from my clams!!!

[Charlie Davidson]

Ten -four on the move! you my need to repost. I would get them into your main tank, they need the MH light and they do look fine considering!!! keep a eye on them. (as if you wouldn't)

[john76]

I'm not an expert and I've only had one clam die so I can't offer that much advice.

But, do you have any shrimp or nassarius snails in the tank? They will usually seek out anything that is dying. If they are leaving the clams alone it's probably a good sign.

[Anemone]

Originally posted by Herbert T. Kornfeld
I knew some mod would see the 'foster&smith' in the thread title and try moving this thread. Hey, MOD, move this thread back into the clam forum so I can get some help! The only thing that has to do with a vendor here is the fact that I bought them from one. this is not a vendor feedback...it is a plea for help from my clams!!!

I moved it back to the clam forum, and changed the title for you. :D

Personally, the clams look good, but I'd get them in the main tank (that's where conditions will be best for them, right? ... not in a bucket).

Also, have you followed up with Drs F&S to let them know of the shipping problems, just in case?

FWIW,
Kevin

[Agu]

I'd agree with getting them in the main tank .

Agu

[sandram]

I agree with getting them in the main tank and if they look any worse for wear call drs foster and smith immediately and let them know, i did with something that i bought and they gave me credit to my account, if nothing else let them know all the problems with the shipping, you paid for next day not 2 day.

[RonSF]

Another on the out of the bucket bandwagon. Those clams look great under the circumstances.
-Ron

[Herbert T. Kornfeld]

Well, I have been on the phone with LiveAquaria since day 1. See, I bought the clams a few weeks back cuz they were on special. On the day I was supposed to get them I got an email saying that my order couldnt be filled but would be as soon as they got more in. Well, I had to coordinate their shipping with when I would have a day off again, so I called them up and told them to call prior to shipping to arrange a ship date. They didnt. Instead, two weeks later I got an email telling me that my order had been shipped and would be there the next day...when I was at work!!! I called liveaquaria to complain, and then my boss, who was pretty cool and understood. So I waited at homethe next day for my box. The FedEx truck stopped across the street...I ran across to check...the driver said no box for me. I checked the online tracking again. It said in bold print "held in Indianapolis,IN" as of 4am. Crap. I called FedEx to confirm and tell them my situation. They said my box was delayed and would not arrive until friday. They offered to do a package tracking, and call me back when they found my clams. They did call that evening, telling me that they were keeping them in a FREEZER!!! I told them to just ship the box back to sender...I figured 48 hours in a box and then a freezer would be it. I had called LiveAquaria a few times already. They already had offered me a replacement by then too.

The next day I went to work, and called LiveAquaria to tell them about the freezer incident and me just sending the box back. They checked the tracking and told me that it was prepped for delivery that morning! I told them that the clams were beyond doomed then, as nobody would be home and the clams would end up held through the weekend! They of course tried to get me to have somebody to receive the package, but that was impossible. I called FedEx and they said they had not been able to reroute the box in time but would ask the driver to return the box to sender then....yeah, right. A whole receiving station couldnt reroute my box, what confidence would I have that a single driver would? But I had to try...

I got home that day to find a box on my porch...cooking in the sun. Funny, I thought someone would have to sign...not like I left a message waiving my signature or anything. But they left them anyways.

So I opened them up to find clam soup. LiveAquaria is going to reship the order to be due on wed...my next day off. They also require the bodies back they said, but the prepayed return shipping labels wont arrive until later this week...or maybe even later. I was going to just leave the bodies in the bags, but LiveAquaria said I would have to drain the bags. I figured why not see what I was going to get anyways...??? And I opened them up to find they werent as bad as I thought. So I have payed for 3 clams...and I will have 6 by wed...and then have to kill these to send back as I thought they were already dead....unless anyone has some dead 4" crocea bodies I can send back instead. LOL.

The truth is that the small one might make it. He can send a jet of water almost 4feet out of the bucket! It's mantle looks in good order and it's using it's foot. The other two are very lethargic. The middle one has large pieces of it's mantle missing. I cant tell if it is continuing to loose pieces, or if I am just noticing prior damage now.

[Herbert T. Kornfeld]

Well, today I was going to put just the small clam in the main tank. As I still dont want clams crapping out and disturbing the rest of the system, but I agree that a bucket with a 36wattPC isnt enough... This is my plan. I took a spare 10gallon. I plumbed it into the main tank (with a sponge on the outlet to capture the mantle chunks before crapping up my main tank) and put a large flat chunk of LR in it. I also hung a 150wattDE MH above it. This should keep give them a fighting chance...although the gold one looks really tore up at this point.

[john76]

I'd want more than just replacements. It's absolutely ridiculous that you should have to miss work and deal with reshipping etc.... My time is money and I can't stand when it's wasted because of others mistakes.

Some vendors just have a lot to learn as far as customer service goes.

[RonSF]

Are you saying that the three look substantially worse than in the photo above? If not, I think you really need to rethink euthanizing them because there is no reason to kill these clams. With all they have endured, they are survivors. You should be honest with the vendor, since the truth is bad enough.
I've only lost one clam, but was shocked to see how much of a non-event it was. The shell was shiny and clean the next morning and there was no issue with water quality whatsoever.
If the clams don't survive, F&S should replace them regardless, but I think the clams in the photo look like they should be fine once they are in better conditions. $0.02
-Ron

[Herbert T. Kornfeld]

I have a plan. All 6 will live.

[Vili_Shark]

Mr. Kornfeld,
I'm not sure how cold was the place where Fedex cooled your clams, but if the temp didnt get too low and the dudes at Live aquaria know how to pack, there should not be any problem.

Clams that comes from Solomons or for Vietnam go through much longer periods packed, and sometimes un-packed.

I would not leave them in a bucket for so long, as soon as you see they are living and not severly gapping , I'd slowly acclimate them to the tank or to a proper Q tank, and keep a close eye on'em.
The bucket wont be enough.

[OrionN]

Put them in your tank. The bucket will not be enough. If the clam die, you can alway pull them out after death.
They looks fine to me. 48 hr shipping should be OK as long as they are well in the first place.
Minh

[Herbert T. Kornfeld]

They are in the 10 gallon with the halide hanging over. They all seem to be doing fine, although it doesnt appear that any have 'attached' themselves...how long should it take for this? I have three recently deceased crocea bodies that the LFS supplied to me for $6. Do the math...

Okay, since I am a clam noob (never felt confident enough to blow $100 on a nice clam and have it die...now I have 6 for $100...LOL!).

[OrionN]

Your three clams are fine. Clams are tough. Stop trying to cheat Live Aquaria. You should pay for all 6 clams, not three of them and send three death bodies of the LFS clams and claim that the clams send by Live Aquaria are DOA.
You are a cheater should be ashamed of yourself. :mad:

[Herbert T. Kornfeld]

Live Aquaria called today and said that we can call it even and never do business again, or they would give me all at the sale price and not charge me shipping. Way to take the law into your own hands Minh. However, I would like to point out that due to liveaquaria's iNcUmPITenCE I lost more than $100 on having to miss work to receive what would have been their shippment. John76 is right. I should get them all for $100 for them wasting my time. No shame in taking what's mine...so dont preach soccer daddy.

[OrionN]

I was going to reply you last post but decided that it is not worth the time spending to type it. I have better things to do.
Minh

[Vili_Shark]

Mr.Kornfeld
If I'd expect for somebody to pay or compensate me, for all the time I lost work hours cause of Clams and my reef and my Fish in general, I'd seat a whole year on an island in Thailand and have somebody to pay for it.

You do whatever you think is right, but do remember that cause of cases like this, if they will repeat by other, it's us the hobbysts who will pay the price, the result will be the LFS/online vendors will raise their prices to cover losses such in your case.

However, I think you should take your clams out of the bucket cause soon you might have few more Corcea shells for your collection.
They wont do good in a bucket, they will not attach themselves if they are in the bucket, and I'm not sure how exactly are you chilling this bucket while you have a halide hanging over it.

Hey Minh, chill my friend ; )

[RonSF]

Sounds like you were trying to scam the vendor to make up for FedEx's screw up. I'm not to keen on that concept, nor am I inclined to "take what's coming to me" if I can't do it on the up and up. Signing off . . .
-Ron

[john76]

Id' expect an extra credit towards future purchases. But three free clams is alot. Gotta meet em halfway. Also, did you think the vendor wouldn't have heard of this thread?

I had a mixup with a vendor and this was what happened.

I ordered some clams and zoos. My order got switched with someone elses. I realized that the corals I got weren't mine once I opened the box. The vendor had fedex come back to my house and pick up the corals within a couple hours. The other guy that had my box kept my corals since he already started acclimation. I got all of my money back plus a large credit. The result was that they kept me as a customer.

In this case he got what he paid for but they didn't come through with shipping on the right day on top of fedex's screw up(Which they will get refunded for by fed ex). They should credit him(at the very least) for the price of shipping. But like I said, three new clams is a lot to ask for.

[Herbert T. Kornfeld]

Just to repeat, as nobody seems to listen (or read). FOR THE LAST TIME! THE CLAMS ARENT IN THE BUCKET ANY MORE! THEY ARE IN A TANK!

Whatever your views might be on my supposed scam (which wasnt in the end anyways), I would wonder if live aquaria will continue to process the claim with FEDEX. It would be kinda funny...they catch me for trying to keep all 6 clams, then I bust them for trying to collect on the claim after I payed up already. As of today, FEDEX called to ask me the value of what was lost...so it seems liveaquaria will be getting 3 free clams in the end. You all can feel free to comment.

[Herbert T. Kornfeld]

Oh, and about the vendor 'hearing' about this thread...??? Gee, let me think. Out of the hundreds of threads that are posted here every day in each column...how would they find my thread? Would they have employees that spend all day checking internet sites? No. Would their have to be a snitch/narc? Yes. Just testing the water folks. I can see it was rather easy to get your panties in a bundle. Take a joke. Talking about doing something and actually doing it are two different things. How many times do you joke with people you know (or think you know)...saying that you will do things that you very well know you wont do?

My situation was simple. I had clams that I thought were dead. They werent. I had replacements shipped. I didnt want to kill the originals to send back, yet dont feel that I should pay full price for ones that only time will tell may or may not be in good condition (and I still want what I originally payed for!) All this to deal with while moving this weekend (moving reefs is a PITA!) Now, I bought the dead clams because if dead bodies were demanded, I would provide...and nobody would be the worse off. All that mess about stuff like this driving up the cost for others is crap. Think about it. Who pays? Not liveaquaria....duh. They get reimbursed from FEDEX. Now, if FEDEX messes up, they should pay for it anyways...it will pressure them to eliminate problems so that next time somebody doesnt have to go through all the crap I did. Think about it. I was doing everyone involved a favor. Live aquaria breaks even (whoever said I was scamming the vendor was wrong, as they get a claim with FEDEX). I get extra clams. FedEx pays for their mistake, but in turn they will have to adapt and provide better service in the future. Overnight it OVERNIGHT folks. Live is LIVE. Not a day or so later, hot and cold later, and not maybe alive. If anything, at this point, I get three extra clams to sell for $20 above what I got them in exchange for 4-5 hours of work lost. now, I dont know about you, but that ends up being about $13 an hour...waaaaay less than I make an hour. Three free clams? Thats over $100, prolly like $150. Thats more like $30 an hour...still not even close. And, BTW, Liveaquaria is the reason I missed work, not FEDEX, as they shipped my order w/o arranging a delivery date before hand...yet I dont see them being penalized here any like they should.

[OrionN]

Bla bla bla...
You just a cheater and an dishonest person, no mater how you are trying to justify it. The more you are trying to justify it, the worst it get.
Minh

[Vili_Shark]

Mr. Kornfeld,
It amazes me how hard you try to justify a thing that you know is wrong.

You wrote:
I had clams that I thought were dead.
Like if it's really hard to tell between a dead clam and a live one, your clams were in a good shape.

You wrote:
I didnt want to kill the originals to send back
That would have been awful dont you think? we all thank you for not killing them.


You wrote:
only time will tell may or may not be in good condition
You posted pics of your clams and everybody told you they are more than fine, your special acclimation, in a bucket with a MH on it, I'm not sure about the filteration, chiller u were using etc in this bucket, as you know, you were using none, shortly, if the clams have something it must be due to your methods of receiving clams.

You wrote:
Live aquaria breaks even
That's your guess, unless you got people from inside Live Aquaria or Fedex.

You wrote:
I bought the dead clams because if dead bodies were demanded, I would provide
Anywhere you go, anyone u ask....that's cheating!

You wrote:
Thats more like $30 an hour...still not even close
We all understand you make alot of money, good on you.
Just let me understand one thing, what makes a man who makes pyles of money like you, to go and cheat vendors , for what?
You make the whole deal in 2hrs work right?
What makes you go and buy shells to show dead Croceas?

There are people, I cant understand, Mr. Kornfeld, and you are one of them.
Have a safe reef moving, and try not to buy live stock next time you're moving.

[Vili_Shark]

Mr. Kornfeld,
It amazes me how hard you try to justify a thing that you know is wrong.

You wrote:
I had clams that I thought were dead.
Like if it's really hard to tell between a dead clam and a live one, your clams were in a good shape.

You wrote:
I didnt want to kill the originals to send back
That would have been awful dont you think? we all thank you for not killing them.


You wrote:
only time will tell may or may not be in good condition
You posted pics of your clams and everybody told you they are more than fine, your special acclimation, in a bucket with a MH on it, I'm not sure about the filteration, chiller u were using etc in this bucket, as you know, you were using none, shortly, if the clams have something it must be due to your methods of receiving clams.

You wrote:
Live aquaria breaks even
That's your guess, unless you got people from inside Live Aquaria or Fedex.

You wrote:
I bought the dead clams because if dead bodies were demanded, I would provide
Anywhere you go, anyone u ask....that's cheating!

You wrote:
Thats more like $30 an hour...still not even close
We all understand you make alot of money, good on you.
Just let me understand one thing, what makes a man who makes pyles of money like you, to go and cheat vendors , for what?
You make the whole deal in 2hrs work right?
What makes you go and buy shells to show dead Croceas?

There are people, I cant understand, Mr. Kornfeld, and you are one of them.
Have a safe reef moving, and try not to buy live stock next time you're moving.

[Herbert T. Kornfeld]

"Like if it's really hard to tell between a dead clam and a live one, your clams were in a good shape."

To let you know, when I got the box, it had been through the freezer, then sat on my sunny porch all day long before I brought them in. Figuring they were already deemed 'toast' by both myself and liveaquaria, I left them in the box overnight as I was just going to drain the water the next day. The water they were in was so clouded they appeared to be cooked soup. Only upon opening the next day did I realize that they were alive...mantles damaged, but still alive. I had to do an emergency water change to clear out the muck, and that is when I put them in a bucket and took pics. I let them sit in there for a day or so, doing water changes every day with water from one of my main tanks. Once I was sure they were stable, and not going to pollute the reef with mantle bits, I put them in the reef. The bucket was in an 80 degree room the whole time with a power sponge filter circulating water around them.

"Anywhere you go, anyone u ask....that's cheating!"

I know its cheating. Im not a monk...like you never cheated. Like you call back the fish store when you get something 'extra' with your live rock or whatever. I think what I am trying to say here is... SO WHAT?

"We all understand you make alot of money, good on you.
Just let me understand one thing, what makes a man who makes pyles of money like you, to go and cheat vendors , for what?
You make the whole deal in 2hrs work right?
What makes you go and buy shells to show dead Croceas?"

It isnt about the money as far as my motive is concerned, it was not having to kill the clams, and the principle of the whole thing in general. And $30 or more an hour is not 'pyles'. Let me remind you that liveaquaria didnt confirm with me the original ship date until after they had shipped and it was too late. In fact, I had called them to extend the order, otherwise they would have cancelled...upon calling them they told me that the order had in fact already been shipped and would be due the next day...the nerve!! Then they acted like I could just skip work because of their error. Seriously, if it wasnt for the fact that they were live animals, I would have told liveaquaria to shove it and never bothered staying home. But I think it would have been arrogant to not try. They cost me a greater part of my work day, not 2 hours!!! You think I have respect for an operation that obviously doesnt have respect for my time like that? Why should I go out of my way, then pay full price, etc....for crap service like that?

What would you have done? Would you not have demanded compensation? And rather than try to negotiate with liveaquaria for a deal...one where at best they might cut you a break on the clams that shipped bad and wasted your time doing it....and waste even more time with them for doing so...it would seem that taking matters into your own hands would be the best route. Less hassle (especially while moving). Of course, I posted the whole thing here, maybe making me look bad, but liveaquaria even more so. And they deserve it. FedEx messed up, sure, but liveaquaria wasted my time as well. Im not a homemaker or at home spouse...I work. I also happened to be moving...the very reason I asked for a call before they shipped to arrange an agreeable shipping date, one when I wasnt moving! They never did. If I hadnt called, I would have never have known (checking your email while packing isnt very high on the list. Having to deal with all this while in such a state of chaos was the reason why I saw sending dead clams back as a possible option...doesnt mean I was actually going to do it...I just bought them as it was a possibility. Who knows if I would have done it or not. I might have tried to negotiate with liveaquaria later on as well....but if their response would have been "send us dead bodies or we will charge you full price", they would have gotten dead bodies. If they would have offered a price break on the stressed ones...then I might have gone legit...but I didnt really have alot of time to figure it out since they were shipped to me just before I was moving...not my fault.

[Herbert T. Kornfeld]

"Have a safe reef moving, and try not to buy live stock next time you're moving." I think I made it clear in my first few posts that I was trying NOT to...um, er, duh.

[Herbert T. Kornfeld]

Well, today liveaquaria called to say that they tried to charge my credit card over the weekend and couldnt...odd, it worked for me all weekend. I dont think they wanted to anyways. They said that upon further viewing of this thread that they would not charge me for them after all and not do business with me in the future. No problem. I can order through my business account & location, wife, cousin, etc. At least that way I dont have to be stuck at home waiting for a package that was sent on the wrong day.