Sea Spider

[TippyToeX]

Hello Dr. Ron,

I have what I believe to be a some kind of pycnogonid in my tank. I have three pictures I posted below. I am unable to take any more (and out of state currently) pictures but do have the little buggers preserved for some more photos when I get home.

http://images.snapfish.com/3424558723232%7Ffp47%3Dot%3E232%3B%3D7%3A9%3D%3B63%3DXROQDF%3E2323697535868ot1lsi
http://images.snapfish.com/3424558723232%7Ffp46%3Dot%3E232%3B%3D7%3A9%3D%3B63%3DXROQDF%3E2323697534588ot1lsi
http://images.snapfish.com/3424558723232%7Ffp45%3Dot%3E232%3B%3D7%3A9%3D%3B63%3DXROQDF%3E23236975339%3A2ot1lsi

I have read your Along Came a Spider (http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2003-01/rs/index.htm) article in Reef Keeping.

Just want to be sure that this is in fact what I have so I am 100% sure of their MO. :(

Thanks kindly for your time.
Amy

[rshimek]

Hi,

Yes, indeedy, you have some pynogonids. They look quite like some that have been implicated as being predators on zoanthids. If you have more than one in your system - you may have some long term damage control. If they have started to reproduce the larvae may be endoparasitic in the adult prey and will be difficult to eradicate.

[TippyToeX]

I did pick them off a patch of zoanthids. :(

Well off to QT land they go. Would you advice me to quarantine all corals, or for now just the zoanthids?

Thank you again for your time & the ID.

[rshimek]

Hi,

Quarantine the zoanthids only. These types of predators are pretty specific as to their prey. I would advise removing all the adults you can see and then periodically checking the zoanthids for more which would appear after they mature inside the polyps. It may take several months to be sure of no further infestation.

[TippyToeX]

Excellent, will do just that.

Hope to update you in 4-6 months time with some good news. :)

[The Shrimp X]

ok i have arachnifobia (bad spelling) andi thought that having a reef would be safe from spiders, and now come to find out that they live in water to....ewwwwwwwww gross nasty. great now i have to buy some gloves. lol

[liquidfluidity]

how common are these creatures?

[rshimek]

Originally posted by liquidfluidity

Hi,

how common are these creatures?

Fairly common in nature, hard to tell in the hobby. When I am teaching inverts at marine stations, they crop up all over the place.

They are often overlooked, but I would guess that they could be pretty wide spread in the hobby. There some (different species in each case) that eat corals, sea anemones, zoanthids, etc.

:D

[The Shrimp X]

ohhh ewwwwwwwwww nasty. you shouldnt have told me that lol.

[TippyToeX]

I am actually shocked how many people have found them recently. I've been mailing many zoanthid keepers, asking for their experience with them. So many have found them (adults) in the past two months. Icky creatures. :D

On that note lets have a better look at them! What nightmares are made of IMHO.

http://images.snapfish.com/34249%3B9523232%7Ffp4%3Enu%3D323%3A%3E6%3B8%3E%3A72%3EWSNRCG%3D323278%3A384998nu0mrj

[rshimek]

Or perchance, the view from the zoanthid....
http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/500/41Zoanthid_pycnogonid_on_zoanthid_b05_mouth_a.jpg

[liquidfluidity]

Any type of simple erradication? Something like a dip maybe? I am a little concerned as I am starting to get into zoos and want to be VERY aware of these NASTY little guys and what to do to get rid of them if I were to contract them. Sounds like a disease!

[The Shrimp X]

yes tell me ow i would get rid of them. pls and thank you.

[TippyToeX]

That article I linked above gives good incite to how difficult these guys may be to remove. I'll quote Dr. Ron from the last paragraph of the article, but do read it! Also a search turns up many helpful threads.

Sea spider predation or parasitism is a potential threat to all corals, soft corals, and sea anemones that are kept in aquaria. If an aquarium system gets infected, just how easy it is to control the pest species will really depend on the type of pycnogonid that is present. The large forms are typically slow, and readily apparent, and may be easily removed from aquaria. The small forms, on the other hand, may be quite difficult to see, as they may be as small, or smaller, than the polyps of small-mouthed corals. Additionally, they may live under the coral mucus layer, and this would further obscure them. They do not appear to be easily removed by "dips," poisons, or potential predators. Frankly, if they are found on corals in any tank, the best option would likely be to remove the coral from the tank, and simply dispose of it.

This is from my short experience here, and talking with others who have fought them. The adults are easy enough to pick off, but are well camouflaged. The ones I found seemed to be the same color as the stalk of the zoanthid.

I've dipped and QT (4 weeks most often) all my zoanthids prior to being put into my main tank. I missed them completely. I can only assume they were under the mucus layer, or still so small that they were not noticed by me. Nor upsetting the zoanthids at that point.

Dr. Ron, that is an amazing picture! Those are the "fangs" injected into the zoanthid in that picture? Or am I seeing things? :D

[rshimek]

Hi Amy,

They don't have "fangs." Those are simply the front appendages getting purchase as it crawls up the side of the colonly.

These are not "real" spiders, but simply a group that looks like them. They are not venomous. See the article for particulars of structure, but basically the mouth is on the tubular extension in the front of the body, and they chew a hole into their prey and then suck up the flesh.

Rather like slowly moving 8-legged vacuum-cleaners of zoanthid flesh. :D

[TippyToeX]

Ok whew! Was not sure if there was something I missed in your article. Thank you very much for in info!

Originally posted by rshimek
Rather like slowly moving 8-legged vacuum-cleaners of zoanthid flesh. :D

I don't know if I want to laugh or cry when I read that. Better laugh or I'll lose my mind. :D

[gabe3d]

Wow that thing is freaky looks like someting out of Alien. Anyways how big are these things? I have quite a few zoos in my tank and hopefully i don't have any of em. I'll have to keep an eye out.

Thanks,
Gabe

[TippyToeX]

Not a good picture, but here is one next to a penny. :)

http://images.snapfish.com/3424%3A98723232%7Ffp46%3Dot%3E232%3B%3D7%3A9%3D%3B63%3DXROQDF%3E23236%3A358%3A993ot1lsi

[rshimek]

Hi,

Amy, [thanks]

Take a look at the article linked to for a size range. Some found on reefs get a couple of inches across.

And then you might (or might not...:D) want to take a look here :eek1::

http://scilib.ucsd.edu/sio/nsf/gallery/kc3803-63.jpg

There are some images taken from deep sea localities showing "herds" of hundreds of these big ones walking across the bottom, unfortunately I couldn't find any images posted on the web during a quick google search.

:D

[zenya]

Originally posted by rshimek

And then you might (or might not...:D) want to take a look here :eek1::


Well, wouldn't you know? I sure did look :eek1: and now I wish I didn't. :D

[rshimek]

Hi Gene,

Indeedy... :eek2:

Of such things, spider phobias are made. :strooper:

[TippyToeX]

Originally posted by zenya
Well, wouldn't you know? I sure did look :eek1: and now I wish I didn't. :D

Me too! http://smilies.*************/cwm/3dlil/eek2.gif

[The Shrimp X]

well i though that the pic wouldnt be that bad ever though you said you may or may not. and now i almost peed my pants and now im getting the heeby geebys.

[gobygoby]

holy spiders....I am never sticking my hand in my tank again!! those little buggers are freakin scary looking!!

goby:eek2:

[tacocat]

Would fish like leopard wrasses eatthe smaller species?

[ak-dave]

Originally posted by rshimek
Of such things, spider phobias are made. :strooper:
I don't mind those so much. At least I know the big ones live in the deep ocean. This (http://dogz.wuffpaws.com/gallery/scarry_spider) is what my phobia is based on:eek1:
Don't look if you are afraid of spiders!

[rshimek]

Hi,

ROFL :thumbsup:

You should have seen the one that showed up in our bathroom in a cottage at a hotel on Pohnpei (Caroline Is) in 1984. The damm thing was a hand span wide and could jump like crazy. Scared the bejammers outta me. Caught it under a large ash tray and managed to get it to the out of doors, then I broke down into jibbering fits.

- Keep in mind I have a significant spider phobia (which has developed rather late in life, I might add; in Jr. High I used to collect black widows for the local science teachers and let the buggers crawl all over me). Now.... brrrrr.....

[TippyToeX]

ack-dave, that picture is wrong on so many levels. :eek2:

Jumping spiders.. (gulp) I did not need to know there is a species that hops around.

[skippy2]

When I was visiting my brother and his wife in Atlanta, there was a huge furry spider in the tub. My brother was 6'9" and wouldn't go near the bathroom. My sister-in-law tried to catch it but it got away from her. I took a shower upstairs.
Now that I walk with a cane, I am not to scared of spiders anymore. The cane is a great 'spider getter.'

[The Shrimp X]

i reamember how and when my spider phoia beegan. i was at my daycare i used to go to and was digging a hole in the sand box. i left to go home and that night it rained. when i got back to daycare the next day i started to dig more in the hole. then suddenly i felt a pinch on my hand and somthing crawling on it i brought my hand out to find a 4 inch long spider that had bit my on it. i never again liked spiders and scream like a sissy momma wen i see one.



P.S. last month my dad opened my bedroom window to cool off my room. come to find out about 6 spiders were living inbetween the wall and my window and got out. i didnt go into my room atall until my dad caught and killed every one of the suckers...brrrr shiver shiver.

[coralite]

back to the sea spiders at hand. I am in france right now and just as I was beginning to think how lucky they were not to have Tegastes I began to hear talk of sea spider infections. These are thin legged, maybe up to 8mm across and they are on everything. Acros are hurting, montis, catalyphylia, turbinaria and god knows what else they are munching on. They are everywhere in the tank of my friend and so throwing out one particular coral is not an option. he already has a leopard wrasse which has lived in the tank for yrs so obviously that doesnt help. There has to be some kind of predator of these guys, please advise and if nothing else please point me in a direction where i can find more information. Thanks

[rshimek]

Hi,

Actually, I don't know of any natural predators on them, sorry. :(

Their natural history is remarkably poorly known, particularly the tropical species.

The best I can suggest is to do what I would do, and that is to go to a good library, find the journal Zoological Record and scan it, by year, starting from the present back into the past. Look in the section dealing with Pycnogonids (should be in the Chelicerate volume) and search for predators upon them.

Have fun! :D

[McBeck]

eww eww eww. As a true arachnophobiac, I am wise enough not to open any of those links, but apparently not wise enough to have avoided this thread entirely. blech!!

I do use gloves every time I'm in the tank b/c all these little bugs and worms freak me out. Love the DSB, weirded out by all the little life forms. :)

I recently purchased Aqua Gloves, which cover my arm up to the shoulder and stay on w/ elastic. They are the best investment I've ever made in this hobby. However, I'm creeped out to put them on for fear of something that may have crawled in during my absence. Honest to Pete, I dry them completely w/ paper towel after each use so I can seal them in Ziploc bags until their next use. And I still squeeze the heck out of each finger before I put them on. :lol:

[Poseidon]

LOL!! Yikes those little buggers ARE FREAKY!!! especially the one the size of that guys HAND!

[romunov]

Spiders > people :D

[TippyToeX]

McBeck- FWIW, you can always get those disposable shoulder length gloves veterinarians use when examining livestock. I've found them at live stock supply stores and some folks have got them from vets that deal with livestock.

Little bit of a update. All of my zoanthids are doing great. I had a colony of reds that have been closed for almost a month that are now fully open. :) Still examining them often (with a magnifying glass) and they will stay in QT for 3 more months I'm sure.

[melev]

Amy, it's been another week and a half. Give us another update. :D

Plus, this thread needed bumping for the masses. :strooper:

[KT & SJ]

HOLY BAJEEBUZ, Pucky those things are....uhuhuhuglie. Ah crud, now I feel like crepy crawlies are all over me.

[TippyToeX]

Originally posted by melev
Amy, it's been another week and a half. Give us another update. :D

Plus, this thread needed bumping for the masses. :strooper:

Hey Marc! Thanks for putting Mr. Spidey on your ID (http://melevsreef.com/id/kritter2.html) page. :D

Not much has changed in the past week. They are doing very well in QT. Expanding more than I have ever seen them. Good color and my pinks have some growth.

It's been a little over a month in QT.. I am so tempted to put them back into the tank! I know I must resist. Right.. should I keep resisting.??

[melev]

Just check the tank closely for new spideys!

[Forestal]

Amy, just found the thread....glad the zo's are doing better...excellent shots of the little critters :)

[TippyToeX]

Marc, I'm afraid I'd see a spider and have to uproot all the zoos and more then back to QT. Too much stress for those beauties I think. :(

Thanks Dan! :)

[elephen]

Dr Ron: If you could, please review my post (if you have time) regarding 'sea spiders.' I recently discovered one about 5mm or so in diameter, brown, and had every single charasteristic of a typical house spider. 8 Legs and all. Someone had posts a few links in reference to the spiders but my little guy looked nothing like them. All of these listed in the urls were rather skinny and large. Now mine did look more like the photos posted up above in this thread, although it had skinnier legs with a more centralized/circular body, just as if a spider fell into my tank. I watched him for roughly 30 minutes, he stayed in one corner of my tank and kept trying to climb up the glass, rather then that, he did absolutely nothing.

I tried to take a few pictures of him, they ended up a little blurry, I am still figuring out the details with my new digital camera. He was killed on accident while removing him. I attempted to pick him up with some tongs but they sliced him in half.

Any clues on a ID. I have been watching every night for more of these and have not found any. If I find any more, I will remove him with gloves and pin him down for more detailed photographs.

Thanks

[rshimek]

Hi,

From your description, it could be a regular spider that fell into the tank. Sea spiders do not have a circular body.

[Brad524]

with the variety of critters in reefing I'm suprised to find so many people afraid of "spiders", if ya ask me a shrimp and some crabs are just as bad

[dean1977]

Great thread. These critters are really interesting.

[Aqua_expert19]

gah filipity ahhh sla ma ka hi gahhhhh wat i want zoo's but not thos little scarry bastards gahh a slaa caaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!! :D sorry for the useless post but AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

[Bass Master]

Aqua_expert19 - now that is funny!

[TippyToeX]

Originally posted by Aqua_expert19
gah filipity ahhh sla ma ka hi gahhhhh wat i want zoo's but not thos little scarry bastards gahh a slaa caaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!! :D sorry for the useless post but AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH


http://instagiber.net/smiliesdotcom/cwm/3dlil/eek13.gif Something tells me you don't like my Mr. Spidey..




:lol:

[Aqua_expert19]

mr spidy is well gahhhh they eat my stuff and look scary its a lose lose. but if they were cool like matis shrimp its a lose win (distructive, cool looking good in a species tank and pretty)

[fussoverthis]

Geez, I don't mind the little spiders...but those photos of the large ones are pretty scary! I'm not a huge fan of large bugs. I don't think I'd make it in a rainforest for long.

Anyone remember that scene from the Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom movie where they go through the dark passage filled with bugs? I always hated that part.

Melissa

[DonJasper]

Dr Ron cured my misgivings about spiders in April 2003. I remember like it was yesterday ....

As with all fireworms, this species has no jaws to bite off chunks of food, rather it must lick them to death.

The first night after reading that bit of nightmare fuel ? :bigeyes: I was able to unclench the golf 'club' near dawn. The Wife still doesn't know. If she did then she wouldn't allow the tank in the house.

I don't miss golfing so much.

[TippyToeX]

Just an update. 3 months later and not a pycnogonid in sight for months now. :)

Dr. Ron, would it be safe to declare myself free of these?

[rshimek]

Hi Amy,

I think so. :D

Good luck!!!

[TippyToeX]

:beer: Woohoo!

Thanks so much for all of your help! I appreciate it a great deal.

[DonJasper]

Yea and 'hair worms' are Lovecraft horrors .... :rolleyes:

[cards98765]

Dr. Ron you posted a link to this site...

http://scilib.ucsd.edu/sio/nsf/gallery/kc3803-63.jpg

Those things look cool do you think they could be kept in captivity? Or any more info on them thanks Michael

[rshimek]

Read back through the thread including the link to the original article I wrote.

Then consider what you might need to have to keep them.

[simike]

is this one???
sorry for bad pic
http://www.manhattanreefs.com/gallery/files/1/1/3/1/IMG_0029.JPG

[melev]

I can't tell.

[simike]

any idea them, i havent seen it in weeks, came out after my tank crashed from heat, and some on my zoos have been dying since then?

[melev]

Without a better picture, it is hard to just guess.

[simike]

ill try to get another pic, but if i find it , its out of the tank
like your podcast, sent an email, no reply yet. no worries

[Tripspike]

How bout this one??

http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m147/Spiketrip/bug1.jpg

[Untamed12]

Here's a decent shot of a sea spider found in my tank today....
http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r118/untamed_photos/000_0058a.jpg

[swimboy123]

awesome thread

[swimboy123]

awesome thread

[fio1022]

As I read this I'm getting a sinking feeling in the pit of my stomach.
3/4 of all my zoanthids have been closed for almost a month.I couldn't figure out why until I found one of the buggers while cleaning a filter sock.
I have so much rockwork and zoanthids,that I'd have to completely dismantle.
If I was able to quarentine(I don't see how I could),wouldn't these beasts still be living in the main tank?
There has to be something that can be done.
Help!!!

[Rackyrane]

Fio,
I have also had these things. I probably still do because I have been fighting them for a couple of months and recently found some baby devils, no more adults though.
There are some good threads on wetwebmedia.com about them. In fact, I recently asked about them and Bob Fenner himself answered.
If you can get some of the colonies out easily, I have been doing FW dips and Coral dips (Lugols if you can find it). This seems to stun/kill them and then you can pick them off with tweezers and smush them.
From what I can gather, you have to QT them if you can and dip them about every week or so for a while ( a couple of months?) until you either don't see them anymore for a long period of time.
I also asked about a six line wrasse and was told by the Doctors site that they would eat the spiders. I bought one and put him in my QT. He is fat, fat, fat now and he doesn't get fed but once a day. I think he must be eating them because I haven't found anymore spiders.
I am by no means an expert and maybe someone else here can add or subtract to the above. Hope this helps some and good luck to us both!:)

[hahnmeister]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9650043#post9650043 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Untamed12
Here's a decent shot of a sea spider found in my tank today....
http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r118/untamed_photos/000_0058a.jpg

That doesnt look like a 'Sea Spider'... it looks like a Spider Crab (Achaeus spinosus or some other Achaeus species)
... different all together. I have had some for a while that are model citizens... same compatibility as a peppermint shrimp really.

http://www.edge-of-reef.com/brachiuri/BRAAchaeusspinosusen.htmhttp://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/565/101919frilly_spider_arrow_crab.JPG
http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/500/101919head_of_spider_arrow.JPG
http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/500/101919frilly_arrow_crab_closeup.JPG

[raaden]

any other results on whether the six line was effective or not.

[martinphillip03]

Would an intercepter treatment kill these things

Marty

[puresalt420]

Just add a couple of yellow or green wrasse and they will be gone within the week!
FOR SURE!
Wrasse live to eat them../