Stop parasite or Ruby Reef Ick Kick - Reef Saf ich medications?

[johns]

Please help. Has anyone used any of these successfully in a reef tank:

Chem-Marin Stop Parasite
Ruby Reef Safe Kick-Ich
Seachem ParaGuard
Seachem AquaZole
or any others for that matter
(I've been feeding garlic already)

Here's the story. I have a minor ich problem in the reef tank. I say minor because so far only 2 fish have shown slight indications (a bit of scratching on the rocks, and just a few white powdery spots on the fins). Both are wrasses - first a Labouti and now a Yellow Coris Wrasse. They otherwise act very healthy, eat well, no behavioral changes.

I got the Labouti out of the tank into quarantine. I wanted to start hyposalinity, but I CANNOT get the yellow coris wrasse out. It's WAY too fast, hides under the sand, just impossible - and I dont want to tear the whole tank apart.

Has anyone had any success with a reef-safe parasite medication? It would be worth a try to me,as long as there are no other harmful affects to the reef.

My other option is to leave everything alone and see what happens since the ich is so minor. I'm just afraid of what happens long-term.

Does ich ever just clear up on it's own?

[Ti]

I used garlic.
clove of garlic = 39 cents.
ich solutions you listed = $8-$15?

[Paul12]

I used Stop Parasite. Worked pretty well for me. I had a few tangs and angels that had it.

[johns]

I used Stop Parasite. Worked pretty well for me. I had a few tangs and angels that had it.

So you're confident this stuff probably cleared up your problem? How many times did you have to use it, how long did it take to clear up, and were there any detrimental effects to the rest of the reef?



(I've been feeding garlic already)
This hasn't helped so far in my case. Thanks.

[Paul12]

I used it for 4 weeks. The Ick dissappeared visually after a week. The first couple days i used it my corals didn't open fully but adjusted to it. I have a lot of inverts in my tank and they did not suffer either. Only problem I found is tht it discolors your water, but since the directions say to make water changes it clears up fast. I also raised the water temp from 78 to 82 to speed up the lifecycle of the Ick. That worked for me. I was told I could lower the salinity as well but if you decide to do that don't lower it to fast, only .002 a day, otherwise the corals will suffer.

If you decide to use it buy a few bottles as they go fast, it isn't cheap either.

[Emerald]

Ti, garlic is not a cure for ich. It may have helped your fish to fight it off with their own immune system but this is not typical and cant be relied on.
Johns, most of the reef safe meds are diluted meds that really arent reef safe. I understand the predicament you are in though. One of the reef safe meds is a natural treatment containing no nasty meds. It would probably be my firt choice if I were in your situation. I dont recall the name but there was some discussion about it in a thread in this forum a few days ago, Im sure if you scan some threads you will come up with it.
Im thinking it is Ich Attack by Kordon, but do a search here to be sure.

[Tim Lang]

I used STOP ICH and it killed my anenome and i still have ich its a waste.

[Ti]

Originally posted by Emerald
Ti, garlic is not a cure for ich. It may have helped your fish to fight it off with their own immune system but this is not typical and cant be relied on.
Johns, most of the reef safe meds are diluted meds that really arent reef safe. I understand the predicament you are in though. One of the reef safe meds is a natural treatment containing no nasty meds. It would probably be my firt choice if I were in your situation. I dont recall the name but there was some discussion about it in a thread in this forum a few days ago, Im sure if you scan some threads you will come up with it.
Im thinking it is Ich Attack by Kordon, but do a search here to be sure.
I'm very well aware it isn't a cure for ich.
BUT it CAN help.
No it can't be relied on.
BUT worth a try since it is such a cheap option.

[TealCobra]

Originally posted by Ti
I'm very well aware it isn't a cure for ich.
BUT it CAN help.
No it can't be relied on.
BUT worth a try since it is such a cheap option.

The reason she posted that is because your response in this thread can be misleading. You make it sound like garlic cloves will cure Ich. The originator of this thread stated he was looking for opinions on "reef-safe" products. He ALSO stated that he was already feeding garlic and that obviously was not solving his Ich issues.

[Emerald]

Yes, and in addition to what TealCobra said, I have seen you post that info in other various threads. If you want to offer that advice that is fine, but the people you are trying to help need to know that is not a cure. It may be of some use but, they may still need to treat with reliable methods. If you would state that info, I would much appreciate it.

[johns]

I tried several more times today to catch the yellow coris wrasse, and I've reserved to thinking I just wont be able to do it.

Well I searched through some threads. There was at least one thread of someone using Kordon Ich Attack and another where a person experimented with using Ruby Reef Safe Ick Kick. In each case the person was reasonably sure that the medications might have at least helped a bit and there were no real detrimental effects. These are far from being controlled experiments, but I feel that I have to try something.

It is fully possible that the Ich went away by some other method and that the medications were just coincidental.

Which brings me to my last questions. Am I over-reacting a bit, with just a few spots here and there and no other ill indications from the presumed parasites? I have only seen a single spot on the yellow coris a few days ago and nothing since. there are no other indications that anything is wrong at this point. Should I just wait a while? Does the ich sometimes just go away by itself (making people believe the meds they are using are doing something)? Should i wait to see if there is real infestation before I do something like treat the whole tank with one of these products?

[TealCobra]

Originally posted by johns
Does the ich sometimes just go away by itself (making people believe the meds they are using are doing something)? Should i wait to see if there is real infestation before I do something like treat the whole tank with one of these products?

I really think you should read this article:

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2003-10/sp/feature/index.htm

[johns]

I read through that article, and I'm thinking maybe I should first just try to keep water parameters looking good (right now they are ok), feed well, and try treating the foods with garlic (already doing that), selcon, and maybe something like Metronidazole.

but I;m having touble finding this mediction or food alreay containing it. Can anyone help me there?

[Steven Pro]

Originally posted by johns
I read through that article, and I'm thinking maybe I should first just try to keep water parameters looking good (right now they are ok), feed well, and try treating the foods with garlic (already doing that), selcon, and maybe something like Metronidazole.

but I;m having touble finding this mediction or food alreay containing it. Can anyone help me there?
After reading that artricle, that is your plan to deal with this parasite? :(

[johns]

Originally posted by StevenPro
After reading that artricle, that is your plan to deal with this parasite? :(

Yes it is.

With all due respect (to the author) could you please enlighten me as to something better I could try? Seriously - I'm looking for any good recommendations. Have you been following my problem through here?

Yes, I made the mistake of not quarantining a new labouti. Let's move on from there. Since this outbreak, I went out and purchased a new 25G tank, set it up as a hosptal, researched as much as I could, and caught the labouti that was showing symptoms (that wasn't easy either). I JUST started lowering SG slightly to begin hyposalinity when I saw the other wrasse showing symptoms. So I brought SG back to normal while I tried for about 4 days to catch the yellow wrasse. It's gotten to the point where I only need to stand near the tank and move around a bit before the yellow wrasse dives under the sand for another 4 or 5 hours. The yellow wrasse probably hasnt even eaten in 3 days because he is under the sand so much.

I cant help but thinking that I am doing more harm than good at this point trying to catch that wrasse. Certainly causing more stress to him now. And this whole time now, the labotui is cooped up in the 25G hospital waiting to begin hyposalinity. And all for what - I saw about half a dozen spots on the labouti and a single spot on the yellow wrasse. These fish have been extremely healthy otherwise, eat like crazy, show great colors and movement. I know that this could all change if things got worse, so i do have to try something. I really think that my best bet right now is to add the labouti back to the main tank and start treating there as mentioned. There is no sense subjecting the labouti to 6 more weeks of stress in a hospital while there may still be a parasite in the main tank.

I simply cannot afford to tear this tank apart with dozens of established corals in there. I think this is a common issue.

Seriously- any good recommendations and I'm all ears.

[Emerald]

That section of the article focuses on natural immunity and alternative treatments. Even though not fully recommended, I do understand the desire to try them.
I also understand the predicament you are in and have advised on the meds in your other thread.
Please keep in mind that there is a chance that it may not work, but in this instance I feel it is worth a try. I have used the metro feeding methods with my hippos for a few differnet things and have had some success or I would try to steer you in another direction.
If the yellow wrasse is the only fish in the main tank, I would try to keep it that way for now. Go ahead and follow treatment for the Labouti in the QT, just in case the metro isnt quite effective. You can feed the food to both fish however and see if you see improvement from it before starting hypo in the QT.
The yellow will need ease up on his stress level a bit. Try feeding from the side of the tank, where he may not see you as clearly. Also try not to be fiddling around in the tank much for several days to let him relax a bit.
Please do keep us posted on how things are going!

[johns]

If the yellow wrasse is the only fish in the main tank, I would try to keep it that way for now. Go ahead and follow treatment for the Labouti in the QT, just in case the metro isnt quite effective.

Actually, there are 2 clowns, a bicolor blenny and a mandarin goby in the main tank as well. None of them show any signs or symptoms at this point.

I'm still undecided as to whether to treat the labouti with hyposalinity or if it is not worth the risk and stress to him. There are plenty of other fish in the main tank that can possibly serve as a host to the parasite, and I suspect that the yellow wrasse is already doing that. I'd hate to have the labouti go through 6 weeks of treatment and come back to a tank housing the parasite.

My thinking right now is to treat the labouti in the main tank along with the rest of them, unless his symptoms become severe. Right now they are very mild.

[Emerald]

My biggest concern with you returning him to the main tank, is that you may have to catch him again. Catching the clowns and mandarin are easy enough if need be.
Keep your QT running so it will be ready if needed.

[toonces]

man, i feel your pain.

i'm in the middle of treating an ick outbreak myself, although my situation is a bit different.

i have a 38 gal tank. i believe when i added my flame angel, i may have introduced ick to the tank. for a week or two, there would be the occasional dot or two which would go away- standard for ick, but i wanted so much to believe it was just bubbles or maybe some sand. when they finally got it, they got it really bad and were just covered with spots.

as for inverts, i have some small crabs, pistol shrimp, two acro frags, and some species of soft coral- similar to xenia plus live rock and a flame scallop.

for fish i have 2 fiji damsels, a flame angel, a very very small french angel, and a very small doctorfish tang.

in my situation, getting the fish out isn't a problem, it's that i'm moving soon and don't have the resources currently to take the fish out an provide a med tank. so, i've been using the kick-ick for the last two weeks.

here's what happened with me: as per the directions, i've been treating with 3oz. of kick ick every other day. day one was nov. 21, and i've done 3 oz. every other day since then. last saturday (the 4th), the fish looked absolutely terrible. i didn't notice any appreciable decline in the number of spots (although they didn't seem to be getting worse), the fish were all eating fine, but clearly they were very sick. also, the surface of the water was getting foamy along the edges since the skimmer was off.

so, i prepared a bucket of freshwater, matched temps and ph to the tank, and added about 5 drops of methyl blue to the water. i caught all fish and gave each a 7-8 minute bath. they all looked like they were dying in the bucket, but have since recovered completely. the bath didn't seem to knock off the spots at all. also on sat, i changed 10 gal. of water, ran the skimmer over night and cleaned the filter. today, the fish appear to be much more ick free. i treated the tank again with 3 oz. and will continue for the next 2 weeks until i move.

as for the inverts, they appear to be fine although the acros aren't opening as much. whether this is due to the kick ick or just the disturbance of the tank this weekend is hard to say.

sorry this is so long, i hope it helps a bit.

[johns]

toonces-
that's fine. i certainly dont mind the details. if you have time to report further on the progress or any changes, please do so. i am still considering the Kick-Ick if the situation worsens.

my update for today is as follows-
I bought some 250mg metronidazole capsules at the LFS yesterday. I thawed some frozen mysis, Ocean Nutirtion 1 and 2, and brine shrimp and soaked a food mixture with one capsule of the medication and a few drops of garlic extract. I then re-froze the mixture into daily portions. I got enough for 3 daily portions using the first capsule. (I think next time I will try to get more portions from a single capsule - like maybe a weeks worth).

I also bought some live brine. I strained the brine out and put them into about 1/2 gallon of tank water, added one capsule of the metrodidazole and a few droppers of garlic. I'm just letting those soak that up, and I'll feed once a day.

The labouti in quarantine didn't look quite himself again yesterday. He was still eating, but just not quite as active. On closer inspection, it looks like there were a number of spots on him once again - and more than I had seen previously. After seeing that, I decided to go ahead and treat him with hyposalinity as Emerald suggested. This is a difficult decision because I may still have parasites in the main tank as long as I cant catch the yellow wrasse, in which case this hypo may be just a waste of time. But from the looks of him, I think I should go through with it. I lowered SG from 1.025 to 1.020 last night.

The yellow wrasse finally came back out yesterday (hours later than he normally comes out of the sand). I left him and the whole tank alone until late in the evening when i fed them both the live and frozen medicated foods. After he ate good, I tried to catch him again. He dove under the sand behind the rocks within seconds of the net entering the water.

[TealCobra]

Originally posted by johns
After he ate good, I tried to catch him again. He dove under the sand behind the rocks within seconds of the net entering the water.

Premium Aquatics sells fish traps. If you really want to get him out, that is probably your best bet.

[toonces]

i'm pretty sure that if you don't treat all of the fish, the ick remains in the tank...even if the other fish aren't symptomatic. this is how a severe stress, like a good chill or something, leads to an ick outbreak in an otherwise healthy appearing tank.

the way i see it, the only way to really and truly get rid of ick once it's in your tank is to treat the whole tank, or remove the fish for treatment and allow the show tank to run fallow for 4-6 weeks. basically you're doing the same thing as quarantining the fish from the beginning would have accomplished!

so, even if you cure your wrasse in q. right now, he may catch it again when you put him back in the main tank.

having never treated fish with garlic, etc., i can't comment on its effectiveness. there's certainly enough anectodal evidence to support it. in my experience, leaving fish to fight off ick on their own is an eventual death sentence to the fish.

my fish still show signs of ick. i'll keep ya posted.

[johns]

Premium Aquatics sells fish traps. If you really want to get him out, that is probably your best bet.

I wonder if anyone has some experience with these traps to know how they work and if they are worth the money. Something tells me I will be continually catching the more 'curious' tank inhabitants (like cleaner shrimp, clowns) before I can catch the more cautious yellow wrasse.

toonces-
I'm all too familiar with what you're saying. Don't want to rehash everything I have been saying, but I'm left with very few options here. Regardless of how non-PC it may seem, I just can't sacrifice or risk all the corals and the rest of the tank inhabitants for the fish either.

[TealCobra]

Originally posted by johns
Premium Aquatics sells fish traps. If you really want to get him out, that is probably your best bet.

I wonder if anyone has some experience with these traps to know how they work and if they are worth the money. Something tells me I will be continually catching the more 'curious' tank inhabitants (like cleaner shrimp, clowns) before I can catch the more cautious yellow wrasse.


Oh you can bet you won't catch the right fish or critter the first try but you will eventually provided you are persistent. I have a friend who used the trap they sell on their site to catch a Six-Line Wrasse and he is very happy with it. It's really up to you.

[irussell]

Make sure to leave the fish in the qt for a month while treating with hypo. I got impatient and took my tang out at exactly 3 weeks and am now trying to catch it again for another round of hypo.

[guyguerra]

John's I was checkng on one of the reef safe products listed in this thread. Can you fill me in on what you did and the results? thanks, Guy

[johns]

I didnt wind up buying or using any of those products, so I dont have an opinion. I tried quarantine and hyposalinity.

The labouti finally died in quarantine, although I dont know (but I doubt) that it was due to the treatment itself. Too many other factors going on there. None of the other fish in my display ever cam down with the disease.

[Sacrifice]

I'm totally agree with "toonces" on his suggestion and definitely understand what you are going through. I'm just a novice to this thing and am already suffered w/ too many things: white spots, bristle worm, and now I see some kind of bugs that I do not know about, and etc.

Since I started to notice the outbreak in my fish tank, I'd found that a few of my fish had white spots on them already. Some of them had only minor spots, but I was freaking out and pretty much moving all of them to a quarantine tank.

My quarantine tank has no substrate in it because I understand that with no substrate in the tank, this parasite won't be able to complete its life cycle and will die out. However, based on my research on the internet, some people suggest that the parasite will still be able to complete its life cycle pretty much on anything even small debris. This claim leaves me hopeless on how to cure my fish.

Anyhow, I'm using the product called ich attack by Kordon. I don't think it is sufficient, but it is only one product available at my LFS.

Based on my experience, I don't recommend you to move your fish that has only minor white spots on them and put into quarantine tank (especially, when your quarantine tank has no substrate). It is very sad for me that I have done that because I have quarantined 6 fish altogether. Some of them were actually looking pretty healthy with white spot before I moved them into quarantine tank. After I placed them in quarantine tank, they were very stress and 4 of them stop eating at all. Unfortunately, I lost 3 of of them. And I can see that I'm about to lose another one of them if I don't put it back to the main tank.

Then I took another approach by giving them a freshwater dip. I really think it helps. I can actually see some white spots drop off the skin. You can give them a freshwater dip every 3 days until the white spot is gone combining with the use of Kick Ich medication, which targets on killing parasite during its swiming stage. Moving fish from one place to another empty place can cause real stress to fish and that's why I lost 3 healthy looking fish. Oh, btw feeding your fish with garlic extract can increase its immune system against disease as well.

I'll be happy to discuss any other ideas that different from me.

[headjigger]

http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-12/sp/index.php

[headjigger]

Check out this thread

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=907034&highlight=kick+ich

[JJFly]

Skunk cleaner shrimp or cleaner gobies? Natural. I've watched the cleaner gobies eat the cysts off the infected fish. Generally keep two. The keep eachother clean too.

[ufchristyb]

Actually, there is no point in treating one sick fish with hypo if you are putting it back into an infected system, since he will most likely become reinfected. The only way to permanently solve your problem is to pull all of your fish out, treat them, and let your tank sit fallow for at least 8 weeks.

That being said, many people's tanks always have small amounts of ich present on their fish with no fatalities. They keep their water quality and nutrition up and seem to avoid catastrophe. I believe Steven Pro (think it was his article) has suggested that their might be a natural immunity that develops to it.

By the way, you need to be extremely careful with what chemicals you expose your mandarin to, they cannot tolerate much at all.

--Christy