Mr4000 is back but w/o tank [Archive] - Reef Central Online Community

Mr.4000

12/12/2004, 03:36 PM

Hi everyone, its kinda weird that its been over 2 years since i had to take my tank down i received an email about a thread i subscribed to 3 years ago.I read through some of the posts and think that its really neat that people are still wanting to see what my tank looked like.When i took the tank down i was quite depressed and went and got a smaller one(750 gallon) and that didn't last long because it was nothing like the big one and i sold that one and got out of reefing all together.This is the first time i have been back to the board in over 2 years and i still look back at all the pictures i have of the tank and all the great memories i had building it and watching it flourish for the 2+ years it was going. If you have any questions about the tank feel free to post any and i will answer them the best i can.

Sora

12/12/2004, 03:47 PM

Welcome back, your a tribute to the hobby you went for it and thats all that matters.

sixxer

12/12/2004, 04:03 PM

Welcome back MR4000!!!!!

I have been in the Saltwater hobby for a little less than a year, but did freshwater before that, and always had heard the stories about your magnificent set-up.

I do have one question for you since I was not around when you were running the tank.

Is humidity the reason that things did not work out?

I am weighing the idea of building a tank into a nook in my basement versus trying to go larger than 300 gallons on my first floor and wanted to get as much info. as I could gather on the basement tank build up process.

Thanks in advance for any info.

Again, Welcome back to RC, great to see ya!!!!!

Today is actually the first time I had seen photos of the set-up, it was all in german so I could not understand any info. on it, but quite impressive anyways.
Aric

Haab

12/12/2004, 04:18 PM

Welcom back - but what happend? Where can I find the story / find photos of the set-up?:)

tozeman

12/12/2004, 04:21 PM

Hi Mr. 4000. My question is: if you could go back in time to when you were first planning your tank, what would you likely change?

Mr.4000

12/12/2004, 04:21 PM

Yes the humidity is what caused the demise of my tank.I tried everything i could think of and nothing was even denting the amount of humidity that the tank and both of the 200 gallon sumps were producing.In the winter it was the worst, all the windows in the house where like a waterfall and eventually mold was growing on all of them and on the walls behind the tank(that was behind the drywall and insulation which had to be torn out and replaced).I was pulling so much air out of the basement that the furnace ran all the time because it was cold in the winter and the air conditioners were running non stop in the summer and i had electric bills of 1000+ every month.If your planning a tank much smaller than 4000 gallons than the humidity shouldn't be a problem just make sure you have a couple of bathroom exhaust fans to pull the humidity out and you can get them to come on when the humidity is too high so they don't have to run all the time.

Mr.4000

12/12/2004, 04:27 PM

Tozeman, there are two major things i would of changed, first i would of built a room big enough to house the tank and sumps that would of connected to the exsisting house but the only thing inside the main house would be the front of the tank so that the humidity could have been vented out of a smaller room instead of being spread throughout the house.Second i would of installed many sklights or put a glass ceiling so i wouldn't of had to use so many 1000 watt halides all the time and thus reducing my electric bill in half.I think if i had of incorporated them changes in the beginning that tank would still be up and running.

keefsama2003

12/12/2004, 04:35 PM

getting back in? or still contemplating ?

vapovick

12/12/2004, 04:37 PM

sorry to hear about that, realy neat project none the less, do you have any pictures anywhere we could reflect on ?

./thanks

nonot8946

12/12/2004, 04:40 PM

I read about you tanks online and was absolutely amazed, I'm sorry to hear you had to take it down.

Did you inspect your tank closely while tearing it down? Did you find any construction faults anywhere? Specifically, I am wondering if you could explain how you sealed the concrete (with some type of epoxy?) and if after the 2 years if you found any defects in it or areas it was damaged by organisms?

Mr.4000

12/12/2004, 04:48 PM

Well after haveing a tank i could swim with the fish in anything smaller just wasn't the same and now in order to get back into it i would have to build another 4000 gallon tank and at a cost of $50,000+ i don't see that happening again.When i tore the tank down(actually all i did was remove the plexiglass and cut a side out of the concret tank) i found no defects in the concrete or paint that i put on it. I used a 2 part epoxy paint that they use on swimming pools that had a life expectancy of 12 years outside so i figured it would hold up that long outside it would last longer inside.I have tons of pictures i will dig up and get posted on here.

Rendos

12/12/2004, 05:09 PM

Good to see you back...feel free to stop by and chat even if you don't have a tank.

Mr.4000

12/12/2004, 05:16 PM

It feels great to be back and yes it would be nice to chat back again with everyone.Even though i don't have a tank the memories and all the fun i had with the big tank will last a lifetime.

juthunter

12/12/2004, 05:26 PM

Hi Mr 4000, Good to see you back, I am planning a near 4000 gallon tank for the future, and would like all the advice you could give and i would love to see the pictures of how you did it. I am building my whole house Around the tank, not incorporating the tank into the house, that is the best thing i think i have going for me so far! Haha, but anyway im glad your back because everyone was telling me how about your tank and how i should look up your posts and now your back so i can ask you the many questions i will have once i get the picture of what exactly it is gonna be like when i decide to build it. Thanks in advance, Justin.

Mr.4000

12/12/2004, 05:36 PM

Hi Justin, any help that i can give just let me know, at least your tank won't be in the house and that is a BIG thing going for you!

Gerard Alba

12/12/2004, 06:05 PM

I will never forget the pictute of you diving in your tank! What a classic.

ktmhk53

12/12/2004, 06:51 PM

Greetings Mr. 4000,
While I know there is nothing any of us can say or do to replace your 4000 gallon dream, please find solace in the fact that your past efforts have inspired many of us to take up the challenge you so gallantly fought.
Your treads and pics are what inspired me to begin the planning of my own "4000" tank, though it will likely be only 2000 gal.
It is an honor to have your wisdom and experience back at RC.
I look forward to any pics you are able to share.

Sincerely,

ktmhk53

juthunter

12/12/2004, 07:02 PM

I have the thread started called Monster Tank planning, please feel free to let me know if you like or dislike anything we have talked about in that thread, It is a great priveledge to chat with you and will be much better when there is someone that has been there, done that, andknows the experience it is with the tank and what to do and what not to do, i look forward to hearing what you went threw and the pictures of your tank. Thanks for the help in advance. Justin.

Mr.4000

12/12/2004, 07:09 PM

Hi ktmhk53, thanks for the comments, i do always look back and think what an accomplishment it was to do.When i was planning on building it i had searched everywhere for info on big tanks and came up with pretty much nothing.so from there it was designing in my head what i thought would work and it did(i guess i got real lucky especially with the overflows which took more work to get to flow the right amount of water through them).Back then people weren't really into big tanks(probably the cost) and if by me taking a chance on making a big tank work inspire people to give it a try then that really makes me feel that maybe losing the tank wasn't all a loss.I'm just an average guy(not rich by far, actually a drywaller)and saving a lot and i mean a LOT of money and having the drive to be able to do it, i think if anyone out there set there mind to it they could have any size tank they want.Having a 2000 gallon is huge and let me tell you do it right the first time and you will enjoy it forever, do what i did and well you know the results, but i always looked at it that i did do it and it worked just not as long as i wanted it too.So hopefully we can learn by my mistakes and everyone that builds a large tank will have a long lasting one.

Mr.4000

12/12/2004, 07:36 PM

Juthunter, i read through your thread on the tank your planning and would definately build a seperate room onto the house to house the tanks and filter systems.Humidity will get the best of you if you put it in the basement.In that room you can put skylights in so you don't have to run the metal halides so much.The slab that the tank would go on should be 12 inches thick and i would make the tank out of concrete with acrylic front and sides.If you looked at the price of an acrylic tank as big as your talking its about 50,000 for the tank alone,i thought about buying one till i say the price, my tank which was 12 feet wide 7 feet tall and 6 feet from to back cost me 600 for the tank and 400 for the acrylic.If you go over 4 feet high with the acrylic it gets very expensive and you will have to have thick glass. I had started out with 3 inches of acrylic and only used 2 inches(they were seperate 1 inch panels).There is much more to discuss about your tank and i have to cut this short but i will be back and get on your thread to discuss more.Hope this helps.Let me know what other questions you have.

sixxer

12/12/2004, 08:21 PM

Wow, Mr.4000 I feel much better after seeing your cost breakdown on the tank you built. My tank would only be about 1/4 of what your tank was in size, unfortunately it will be in the basement, with all equipment(sump, refugium) located in my garage, which will require a few holes being drilled thru the basement wall.

I know it will take awhile to post the details of your construction process, but could you at least give some details on the actual method you used to construct the walls of the tank, and how you attached the acrylic to the wall???

Thanks

P.S. - If all goes according to plans, I would hopefully be starting my project later this week.

AquariumObsessed

12/12/2004, 08:56 PM

Hey Mr 4000 it is an honour to see you back again....thank you for all the work you did in advancing our hobby with such a huge accomplishment.

I am in the process of setting up a 1800 gallon system in my basement and have a few questions...

System Details:

Main Tank- 126x72x32
Sumps, Refuge, frag tanks another 500+ gallons
Lighting- 10-15 mixed 250 and 400 HQI
Fish Room- 22'x15'
2 small windows in room
I live in Toronto Canada so winters are cold.

Questions:

Any suggestions relating to Humidity, venting etc are welcome

I am thinking of installing an HRV...good idea?
Do I need an exhaust fan on top of the HRV?
De-humidifier?
Air conditioner?

Thanks so much!!!

juthunter

12/12/2004, 09:20 PM

Thanks so much Mr. 4000, i would like to talk to you some more maybe over some emails or something because after all, you are the one that has had the experience with such a large tank, and i would like to know allt he do's and dont's so i can make this tank last for a long long time. Thanks so much!

Dk Coral

12/13/2004, 12:43 AM

Mr 4000 - Am i the only one who just gets into a online casino and other crap site when hitting your little red house and typing www.mr4000.com ???

AlgaeMan

12/13/2004, 06:21 AM

You could always drop a 0 and be Mr.400 :rolleyes: Nice to see you back.

Haab

12/13/2004, 06:26 AM

Originally posted by Dk Coral
Mr 4000 - Am i the only one who just gets into a online casino and other crap site when hitting your little red house and typing www.mr4000.com ???

Nope - the same goes for me:( Guess he closed the web-site together with the tank...:( To bad - I cant find any pictures on nay of his treads...

Please Mr.4000 - post some photos:)

tomasz

12/13/2004, 08:29 AM

WHERE IN MICHIGAN ARE YOU LOCATED?

dgasmd

12/13/2004, 08:49 AM

Mr 4000:

I remember the pictures of you setting up that tank and it was truly inspiratinal to say the least. I was heart broken when I found out you sold everything and kept no tanks because I could only imagine what that must have been like. You just don't wake up one day and decide to have a massive system system like yours was.

I still can't see how you went cold turkey and kept nothing, not even the 750g tank. But I guess that only shows how depressed you were about the entire thing.

I would highly encourage you to get back in the saddle and do a smaller tank maybe. Something that you can manage indoors as your humidity problem is a real one and one that I think used your particular set up to be emphasized. That I think, despite it all, was one of the good things that you taught the rest of us.

Good to see you around again.

Jamesurq

12/13/2004, 08:59 AM

Wow. Good to see you posting. You should definitely get back in. Jumping in to a huge tank was a ballsy move and one that most people aren't willing (or able) to do.

You should get back in with something a little more managable. Hey - a 30 gallon tank is about 4000 fluid ounces....:)

VegasMike

12/13/2004, 11:17 AM

Your experience with humidity issues were the driving force behind how I designed my room,even though the tank is a mere 11% the size of yours, what a sobering comparison. We were building an addition anyway, so we designed this room to be independant of the rest of the house except for the access doors above the tank and the door to the fishroom. The room has it's own temp control, it's own exhaust fan, painted with moisture barrier paint, greenboarded 100% (should have seen the inspectors face when he saw that), etc. The exhaust fan is wired to a greenhouse controller that gives me the options to set both the temp and humidity levels at which the AC comes on. I also have the added advantage of living in Las Vegas where the average humidity is somewhere around 15% and single digit humidity is not unheard of.

It's been almost a year and, so far, no issues, knock on wood.

Dk Coral

12/13/2004, 11:35 AM

It reminds me of this danish guy :

http://fp.worldonline.dk/fpeisl47716/html/birger_kim_rylander.htm

AquariumObsessed

12/13/2004, 11:35 AM

Mike do you have pics of your ventilation equipment and setup?

Haab

12/13/2004, 12:12 PM

Originally posted by Dk Coral
It reminds me of this danish guy :

http://fp.worldonline.dk/fpeisl47716/html/birger_kim_rylander.htm

:eek1: WOOOOW, 20 000 L - unbelivebal....:eek1:

VegasMike

12/13/2004, 12:29 PM

I think there may be some pics in my gallery of the workroom, but there isn't much to show. The AC unit is one of those "split" units and is rated for a room at least 5x the size of my fishroom. The exhaust fan is a commercial rated bathroom exhaust fan. The electricians configured it with a three-pronged plug that just plugs into the side of this unit that I got from Harry's Garden Center online. The unit just plugs into a normal outlet.

sixxer

12/13/2004, 02:24 PM

Here are some photos from a German web-site.
If anyone can translate, please do! Thanks

http://www.wasserfest.de/meerwasser/aquarien/mr4000/aquarium.php4

Jamesurq

12/13/2004, 02:34 PM

Originally posted by Dk Coral
It reminds me of this danish guy :

http://fp.worldonline.dk/fpeisl47716/html/birger_kim_rylander.htm

One thing I like better about Mr.4000 - he doesn't scubadive in a bananna hammock...:worried:

Dk Coral

12/13/2004, 02:38 PM

BTW - That danish tank is gone aswell.... I think he`s wife kinda fund out what the price on running that thing was :D

sixxer

12/13/2004, 02:42 PM

Originally posted by Jamesurq
One thing I like better about Mr.4000 - he doesn't scubadive in a bananna hammock...:worried:

:lol: :lol: :lol:

MacnReef

12/13/2004, 03:24 PM

Originally posted by Jamesurq
One thing I like better about Mr.4000 - he doesn't scubadive in a bananna hammock...:worried:

ROTFLMAO!!!! :lol: :lol: :lol:

When I first read it, I was like, huh, bananna hammock? Because I hadn't looked at the pictures, but now that I see...that was hilarious.

dphins

12/13/2004, 09:01 PM

Mr4000 I read your website a long time ago and was really awed at the size of your tank. What it must be like to have that much room in a tank? Hope you don't mind, but here is a pic of your tank I used as a background for my computer years ago.
http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/500/50121SWIM1.JPG :eek1:

Julio

12/13/2004, 09:22 PM

i think we all wish we can go into our tanks, you shuld thankful you got a chance to really do it, i hope i get to do taht some day.

Nanook

12/14/2004, 04:27 AM

Kudos for coming back to visit...we will get you back in this hobby yet!

Thanks for sharing your successes and failures with your large tank...there is a lot to be learned with recreating oceans in your house.

Nanook:thumbsup: :thumbsup:

MacnReef

12/14/2004, 08:57 AM

Originally posted by dphinsx2
http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/500/50121SWIM1.JPG :eek1:

That is SICK!!!! :eek1: :eek2: :eek1: :eek2: Man, my wife would kill me for sure!

Mike

jnfallon

12/14/2004, 09:33 AM

welcome back -you're a legend!

norskfisk

12/14/2004, 10:39 AM

AquariumObsessed:
A dehumidifier is a great idea. They are cheap, consume little power, dries and cleans air and return some of the energy lost in the evaporation process.

More about the humidity issue:
Anybody who build large tanks should be aware of this and deal with it. It is a very simple problem to solve, but people haven't been aware of the problem. Placing a reef tank in the main airstream of a house is like turning the whole house into a sauna. Brute force approaches like using the AC and ventilation of the whole house to dry the air are clumsy and expensive in hot climates. In cold climates where you don't have AC it can be catastrophic. The solution is, as VegasMike did, to build the tank in a room that is air thight from the rest of the house. It sounds a bit difficult, but it's not. In cold climates this is part of the standard building technique anyway. In Norway it's not even legal to build an exterior wall without air sealing it completetly from the inside of the building. This is because when hot inside air enters the wall vapor condensates in the wall creating a moisture problem that makes the wall rot. The sealing is done with a special type of plastic foil that is folded up on rolls so that it is 4 meters wide. It's cheap and efficient to set up. When you build a large tank. Set up interior walls around it so that it comes in its own room. Seal the walls with plastic before plating with some water resistant material and install a separate ventilation system in the room. Thats all there is to it. The vapor must stay in the tank room. It has no buisness to do in other parts of the house.

Mr.4000

12/14/2004, 10:52 AM

Boy, does that picture bring back memories!!!!! My hubby really "gets right into" his hobbies!

Missiz 4000

jnfallon

12/14/2004, 11:41 AM

ok, I need some witnesses, my gf just told me it's ok to build something like that in our house. (or next to our house in a separate structure of course)

She wants a ring first, but what's a few more hundred.

WOOT!

AquariumObsessed

12/14/2004, 01:20 PM

thanks norskfisk,

So far this is what I have done...

I have statred construction in the corner of the basement. The fishroom will consist of 2 existing walls and 2 newly constructed walls. I have finished closing 3 walls so far. Each wall consists of the following layers:

* 2x4
* Vapor Barrier plastic
* Green moisture wallboard
* Moisture resistant primer
* Moisture resistant paint

I figure this is the most I can do...I plan to follow the same procedure on the ceiling and 1 remaining wall. I guess my dilema now is to do woth the ventilation system. It is my next step in the construction process and I have not had experience with such a large system. I have purchased a 70 pint de-humidiifer and will run that in the room. Currently I am torn between getting an HRV or just a large exhaust fan or both???

Which models should I buy?

CFM??

How big a return vent do I need?? Wont this cool the room alot in the winter?

Thanks

sixxer

12/14/2004, 01:25 PM

What an inspiring photo!!!!

Mr4000, was your tank constructed of concrete? If so, how thick were the walls and how did get the acrylic to adhere to the concrete?

Thanks

jnfallon - I would think she won't be your gf much longr if you only spend a few hundred on the ring!;)

sixxer

12/14/2004, 01:29 PM

AquariumObsessed,

Is the vapor barrier plastic you are using a special type, or just the clear plastic that most hardware stores carry?

Is the Greenboard also something that is typical at most hardware stores?

Thanks

Jamesurq

12/14/2004, 01:48 PM

Originally posted by jnfallon
ok, I need some witnesses, my gf just told me it's ok to build something like that in our house. (or next to our house in a separate structure of course)

She wants a ring first, but what's a few more hundred.

WOOT!

yeah - good luck with that whole "you can do whatever you want after we're married thing."

Let me know how that works out for you..

:lol:

Soltaker

12/14/2004, 03:19 PM

Originally posted by sixxer
AquariumObsessed,

Is the vapor barrier plastic you are using a special type, or just the clear plastic that most hardware stores carry?

Is the Greenboard also something that is typical at most hardware stores?

Thanks

greenboard = sheetrock designated for bathrooms. it's just a few buck more than regular sheetrock

sixxer

12/14/2004, 03:36 PM

Thanks Soltaker!

norskfisk

12/14/2004, 04:25 PM

AquariumObsessed:

Sounds right what you have done there. Maybe insulating the walls would be good too. Because if the walls are colder than the air in the tank room then there will be lots of condensation. Insulation will seal the tank room from the rest of the house thermally. Could be a good thing.

If you do the room sealing well then it shouldn't be necessary with a heavy ventilation system. But I don't feel competent to make any guesses about its size. The idea of having lot's of ventilation in the tankroom is not very appealing in a cold climate since it wastes energy. The tank room should be kept warm and humid. After all it is only a problem when the humidity leaves the tank room. Everything in there can get wet anyway.

The ideal solution in terms of energy efficiency is to have little ventilation from the tank room and a big chiller standing *outside* the tank room. Thus the chiller sucks energi from the tank and dissipates it in the house. The energy from the lamps is then used to heat the house. So you get energy reuse. This works beautifully. I know because I use it myself on a cold water tank. But it costs more to install of course. Heavy chillers aren't exactly cheap.

sixxer

12/14/2004, 05:24 PM

Quick question on Acrylic thickness.

If I am going 10 feet in lenth, and 36" to 38" tall, am I safe going with 1" cast acrylic? (the tank will be concrete) approx. 750 to 980 gallons.

Mr.4000

12/14/2004, 08:58 PM

Hi everyone, sorry i haven't been around much to answer questions so i will try to answer a few-sixxer my 750 gallon tank had 3/4 inch thick acrylic in the front and was 36 inches tall so useing 1 inch thick for 36 to 38 inches would work fine.My tank was made out of concrete and was 8 inches thick.I recessed the acrylic into the concrete.I formed a 3 inch indentation around the the perimeter of the acrylic so that 3 inches all around the acrylic was holding it. I then took aqarium silicone and put that up against the concrete and all arond the acrylic and the pressure from the water held it in place.I used bracing to hold in until the silicone cured.Norskfisk is absolutely right you need to seal the room with green board(i know because i am a drywaller) so the moisture doesn't leave the tank room and so it doesn't get to the outside walls were condensation will occur and eventually mold(which is what happened to me).Aquarimobsessed i would not put a de-humidifier in the room because it will only cause your tank to evaporate much quicker and it will heat the room up.I would personnal get a large exhaust fan that was controlled by a humidity gauge where it would come on when the humidity was too high or set with a timer to come on every hour for a certain amount of time that is what i had setup behind my tank.You will also have to think about cooling the room down.If its in the winter you can run the exhaust fan more but in the summer if its really hot you will a big chiller(which will put heat in the house) or some kind of air conditioner, i had central air and had to pipe it into the tank rooms and it ran just about 24 hours a day in the hot summer.

Mr.4000

12/14/2004, 09:04 PM

I guess i should of read some farther back posts- VegasMike has the ideal setup.A seperate room thats climately controlled and sealed tight-had i of did this my tank would still be going, but you know what they say hindsight is always 20/20.

AquariumObsessed

12/14/2004, 09:40 PM

ok...so no de-humidifier...

What about an HRV system?

Will this expel enough air at 200 CFM?

sixxer

12/14/2004, 10:42 PM

Thanks for your replies Mr.4000.

Did you actually have to build the forms to pour your concrete into, or were you able to use typical foundation forms because of the size of your tank. What about rebar? Did you use any?

How did you set-up overflows on a concrete tank?

Thanks again for any info. you can contribute!!!!

Mr.4000

12/15/2004, 03:43 AM

Aquariumobsessed, i'm not saying that you can't use a dehumidifier but it will run non stop because of the endless supple of water in the tank and the heat that it will generate(because its actually an air conditioner running backward sucking in air over a cold coil and expelling warm air)will make your room much warmer thus having to run an exhaust system even more,you would be suprised as to how much heat the lights generate, i had 6 1000watt metal halides and i didn't have to have a heater on my tank and it kept it at 78 to 80 degrees and at night with such a water volume it never dropped.You don't want any ventilation system thats hooked into the house system because you will add unwanted moisture to the rest of the house causing condensation to form on windows and run like a waterfall as in my case there was so much coming off my windows it was actually rotting some of the window sills.You would have to look up the size of your room as to what the manufacturer recomends,but then i would still go bigger because thats less times it would run and wouldn't have to run very long to pull the heat and humidity out of the room.Norskfisk is right if you seal the room tight you won't need a real big ventilation system because the room no matter what will always be warm and humid which will work to your advantage because heating the water could get very expensive as well as cooling it, the big thing is to keep it out of the rest of the house.Sixxer, i rented the forms and they are the same ones they use for house foundations.They were 8 feet tall(my ceiling was nine feet) but i only poured 7 feet high to have room for lights and getting into the tank.The overflow system was actually quite simple but the hardest part of the tank to design.I put a 3 inch pvc pipe into the back of the tank centered in the mddle of the concrete.There were 4 tees that led out of the back of the tank that were surrounded with concrete to seal it from the inside.After the concrete cured i had marked were the pipe was and drilled 2 inch holes through the concrete into the pvc pipe which when the water got to a certain height the water would flow through the holes into the pipe and down the tees into other 3 inch i had plumbed to the sumps.My only problem i had was trying to figure out if it would flow enough water through the holes(which there were a lot) and well it didn't, so i had to cut slots 2 inches wide and about a foot long to allow enough water to flow and it worked, i was lucky that it did because i didn't have a backup plan and cutting any of the back wall out and redoing was out of the question because putting more concrete on top of what was there would of created leaks and the strength would be the same.I did use lots of rebar, you really need a lot to make sure cracks don't develop in the walls especially after its set up and running and i used fiberglass(you can order fiberglass added to the concrete) to help strenghten and prevent cracking.

AquariumObsessed

12/15/2004, 06:01 AM

the room will be sealed from the rest of the house. It will have its own ventilation or HRV (for the fish room only)

I just need to decide what set-up to use. How big an exhaust fan? How large a return vent? Hrv?

sixxer

12/15/2004, 08:37 AM

Thanks again for all your input Mr.4000.

I have one question for you, and the other reefers who are looking at sealing the room from the rest of the house.

If you put up a vapor barrier (plastic) then you cover it with Greenboard, and use your drywall screws to fasten the greenboard to the wall studs, this will penetrate the vapor barrier won't it? Should you also use some sort of epoxy/or some other waterproof material to paint over the greenboard once it is hung and finished to prevent any possibility of moisture getting thru?

dphins

12/15/2004, 09:18 AM

Mr.4000 what did you use for water flow in your tank? Do you have any pics of the equipment or behind the scene pics?

VegasMike

12/15/2004, 10:57 AM

My painters painted the room first and then painted over it with a clear poly coat. The walls sure are shiny.

sixxer

12/15/2004, 11:02 AM

The room I am building in is already finished in drywall, I am not sure if I will just coat it with water resistant paint/epoxy, or take down the drywall and replace with greenboard and then paint!!!

I will be removing the carpet this evening so I can draw my footer out in chalk on the floor and make sure that I will have enough room to manuever around behind and around the tank.

yetiman

12/15/2004, 08:03 PM

Welcome back Mr 4000
If I remember correctly you relied on an ecosystem type system for filtration. Were you happy with its performance and are there things you would have done differently there. I dont think you used a skimmer either. I dont remember if you used DSB, SSB or BB. What did you use and what are your thoughts on its performance.

asmodeus

12/15/2004, 09:33 PM

i used to look at your sight for hours watching a still photo. Ya i know funny. When i had my 280 gal in the wall i didnt have any out air goign out all i had was a DEhum and that was it and a fan sucking in and one blowing out and guess what the humidity was crappy the house was at 80% even with the Cental Air. ,but i didnt have a blower in there so warm stag air goign thur the house and my son's health was at risk so doen it came.

Any way now i'm redoing the tank i'm going to wopping 62 gal witha 55 gal sump :p

all will be well i hope ..

later

MIke

P.S WELCOME BACK AGAIN MR 4000

good to hear from ya ...'

A reefer for ever:bum:

Outerbank

12/16/2004, 12:18 AM

Welcome back Mr. 4000!! Man, do I remember your old posts. your knowledge is invaluable. So sorry to hear about the humidity problem and thanks so much for sharing everything you know!

Jerry W

12/17/2004, 02:01 AM

So what became of all the LR, fish, etc..? Did other hobbyists purchase them? You had some great specimens in there, lots of large tangs, etc..

Dallas_Joser

12/17/2004, 08:44 PM

why not a shark tank? no lights exc. would've saved a bundle and still been cool.

OceanNwisconsin

12/18/2004, 01:26 AM

stole my post dallas... why not a shark tank!

also.. couldnt you just have a top on these large tanks and keep them mostly sealed wouldnt that cut down on humidity??

incysor

12/20/2004, 01:28 PM

Glad to see you're back Mr4000. I found your site right after I started this hobby, and it totally blew my mind. It went down shortly thereafter, and I've looked for it from time to time. I'm sorry to hear what happened, but it's great that you've come back to share you insights with others.

roy

12/22/2004, 07:20 PM

Mr 4000! I was just wondering about you and your tank last week! Man, I used to dream about that tank and I learned much from your website. Glad to see you back and thanks for all you've taught us.

carpetride

12/22/2004, 10:17 PM

Mr. 4000 maybe you should take a look at Bill Wann's set up. Seems almost exactly what you are describing as far as separate wing of the house and all. You've inspired many of us are you sure you don't have the "bug" again? hehe!

invincible569

12/24/2004, 10:51 AM

Welcome back! This hobby misses you!

willra

12/24/2004, 04:31 PM

Can someone give me a link to mr 4000s website or any pics of his setup? Thanks.

CaptainCoral

12/25/2004, 12:35 PM

MR.4000.....

Wow, I've been away from RC for almost two years. I'm still reefing but was playing FPS games competitivly and took all my time. I'm back now, and the first thing I did was check to see your site, and found it gone. I'm very happy to see your back even without your tank.

Lev

12/29/2004, 08:59 AM

Mr4000, I am very glad that you are back. As for many reefers, for me you were a greate example of the final goal. I dreamt that one day I will have the tank as big and as beautifull as yours. My actual tank is only 500 gallons, and still it needs a lot of maintanence. Thinking about humidity problem you had to fight, I still think, may be there was some solution, other than taking down the tank? In my country, and it is cold in winters here, some reach people have swiming pools inside there houses, and they dont have this issue of humidity problem.
Best Regards,
Lev Mironov
Moscow, Russia

CASHCRZZY

12/30/2004, 02:49 PM

do you all want to have some funn and see his web site go here
http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://www.mr4000.com

sixxer

12/30/2004, 07:55 PM

Wow, Thanks for that link! Not all the photos work, but a bunch of them do!!!!

SaltwaterNovice

12/31/2004, 12:16 AM

Mr 4000:

NICE TO HAVE YOU BACK.

Sixxer:

There is no need to tear out the sheetrock and replace with greenboard.

Just put the vapor barrier and greenboard over the existing sheetrock.

Best,

Brian

Heinz

01/01/2005, 11:50 PM

Mr 4000 thats what i call a reeftank :D

http://web.archive.org/web/20021013085906/http://www.mr4000.com/files/DSC00010_.jpg

Ken Sellick

01/03/2005, 06:11 PM

Mr 4000, Thank's for being a pioneer.
Without people like you having the courage to share your experiences serious issues would be overlooked.
I remember when your system was being built and was saddened to hear of its demise.
Thank's for comming back and being willing to share.

Carl_in_Florida

01/03/2005, 08:40 PM

This was too wild.

KDodds

01/07/2005, 11:02 PM

Having Central A/C installed a couple of G, having a return installed above your tank to remove humidity and heat back to the air handler where it drips out the port to your gutters, priceless... ;)

nonot8946

01/12/2005, 04:13 PM

Mr. 4K, did you laminate the two pieces of acrylic together for your window or did the shop do it? What are the steps and materials involved if one would go about doing this?

Peckerneck

01/23/2005, 07:00 PM

Originally posted by KDodds
Having Central A/C installed a couple of G, having a return installed above your tank to remove humidity and heat back to the air handler where it drips out the port to your gutters, priceless... ;)

Great concept...if air handlers were made of PCV. I think that exposure to saltwater would cause the aluminum coil in the air handler to deteriorate so fast that withing a couple months you'd have 5 pounds or more of freon whiff into your tank killing everything in it and getting everybody in the house quite stoned. not to mention the steel sheetmetal that the air handler is made of would rust quickly.

Now then I'm not knocking your idea I think it has great possibility. just needs some workthrough.

CaptainCoral

01/23/2005, 07:32 PM

I think that exposure to saltwater would cause the aluminum coil in the air handler to deteriorate

:)

I really don't see this happening as what the return will be sucking in is humid air. The saltwater stays in the aquarium.

:)

Peckerneck

01/23/2005, 07:50 PM

Originally posted by CaptainCoral
:)

I really don't see this happening as what the return will be sucking in is humid air. The saltwater stays in the aquarium.

:)

Ahh you'd think so but think about this...doesn't saltwater stay in the ocean? I lived on the island of Okinawa for 4 years. when I first got there I got a brand new mitsubishi galant. when I left 4 years later it was ready to be junked because of rust. I didn't test it as a submarine...the saltwater was present and caused the metals to rust.

CaptainCoral

01/23/2005, 08:04 PM

Um....

Reef tanks don't have the wavebreak, salt mist issues of islands either.

SHOmuchFUN

02/04/2005, 12:32 PM

Originally posted by CaptainCoral
:)

I really don't see this happening as what the return will be sucking in is humid air. The saltwater stays in the aquarium.

:)

Then how do you explain the rusting/deterioration of hardware that is used to build stands. I know that the hinges of my cabinet doors on my aquarium are quite corroded, but never come in direct contact of the saltwater. How do you explain this?

I know where you're coming from, but water is not stagnant in these tanks and when water is splashed, circulated, etc. salt spray will kill anything metallic.

RocketSeason

04/13/2005, 09:31 PM

Well, I am going to resurect an old thread, but I learned something from Mr. 4000s experence.

I really appreciate my 37 gallon tank more!!!

LOL! Seriously though, Mr. 4000, I can understand that nothing can measure up to a 4000 gallon tank, but the rest of us really enjoy our small systems, and I am sure that you will grow to love a more managable system as well.

bassman57

04/17/2005, 11:13 AM

mr. 4000 im sure this has already been said but what were the dimesions of the inside of the tank??

Coralover

04/17/2005, 09:40 PM

Originally posted by bassman57
mr. 4000 im sure this has already been said but what were the dimesions of the inside of the tank??

I would like to know also.

kabboord

04/25/2005, 12:09 AM

Thats every Reefer's secret fantasy, TO GO DIVING IN YOUR OWN TANK!... Really one with the fishes...

massman

04/25/2005, 01:27 AM

Dimensions according to the link above. 12'x7'x7'

Randall_James

04/29/2005, 08:36 PM

With what you are doing I think your idea of another SpectraPure is on the mark. Honestly they would not be around if they were just selling an overpriced unit.
If you are happy with the current system from them, saving $100 and having to track 2 sets of filters etc just is not worth it when you thousands invested in the setup anyway.
I think you need to keep your maintainance as simple as possible.

They certainly have some nice systems at any rate.

Nathan

05/05/2005, 03:07 PM

Yikes! For the price tag on one of these humongo reefs you could be well on your way to living in luxury in the Cayman Islands with a trillion gallon reef at your back porch; including live sharks and barracuda! ;) :)

Seriously though, you show much dedication to the hobby! I'll stick with my 180g for now. :)

-Nathan

highlands

05/17/2005, 08:21 PM

Originally posted by Mr.4000 ...I used a 2 part epoxy paint that they use on swimming pools that had a life expectancy of 12 years outside so i figured it would hold up that long outside it would last longer inside. I have tons of pictures i will dig up and get posted on here.

Please, pretty please do dig up your old notes and photos. I, and I'm sure others, are very, very interested in how you did things. I'm planning a large tank made of cement and with glazing in the upper portion of the water column in the new house we're building soon. I would like to learn from what you did - both your successes and failures. The little bit I was able to find in the Internet Archives Way Back Machine of your old web site was very enticing! It was exciting to find this thread and wonderful to know that you're back in the swim of things even if tankless!

My background: I've been keeping aquariums for about 30 years and reefs for about ten years. I plan to build everything possible myself, both for financial reasons but more importantly because I enjoy the process. I have experience with construction and concrete as well as glass tanks (and a little bit of building with acrylic tanks).

Some specific questions:

1) How did it work out using multiple layers of acrylic? Did you laminated them? Any problem with this? Did water get between the layers?

2) Can you talk about how you sealed your glazing and issues related to the multiple layers?

3) What epoxy paint did you use on the concrete?

4) Did you use any admixes in your concrete? What slump did you use? Aggregate? Or neat?

5) What did you do about curing of the concrete and pH balancing?

6) Did you use epoxy coated rebar or standard rebar?

7) Did you have any problems with rusting of the rebar? When you cut out the section after dismantling how did the rebar look? My primary concern comes from the salt environment. Did you do anything special to protect the iron from the salt?

8) Did you vibrate or use a self leveling concrete?

9) I saw you mention that you used fiberglass in the concrete. Was it coated? Any issues with it?

10) I saw your note about skylights. I have kept tanks in our southern windows for years with excellent results and am planning to do a sky-lit tank. In our climate overheating isn't an issue and in our location the mountain blocks a significant portion of the western sky. I would be very interested in hearing your thoughts on natural lighting, skylights, etc for reef tanks.

11) Did you ever have any problems with reactions to your tank inhabitants (e.g., stings, hives, bacterial infections, etc) from diving in your tank?

I apologize for so many questions. I have tons more. I am ever so fascinated by your project and wish to learn from it before I embark on my own large tank.

Sincerely,

-Walter
in Vermont