Extra-Large Tank Upgrade Project to begin

[sixxer]

I hope to have a digital camera over at my house Friday when my new tank and fishroom construction begins so that I may do a photo timeline of the process.

Dimensions 132" x 40" x 48" (the only variable right now is the depth of 40" which could be reduced to 36")

Tank is going to be constructed of concrete(in my basement)

Walls will be approx. 5" of 5000 PSI concrete reinforced with 1/2 rebar thru-out (Thank god for friends who work with concrete for a living!:D )

Viewing window will be 1" Acrylic sheet 120"x48" (ordering monday)

All equipment with exception of the closed loop pumps (two Ampmaster 4700's running two OM 8ways) will be located in the garage.

As of now the plan is to pour the concrete and after it has cured, do all the drilling of the drains, returns and closed loops.

Drains - Right now I am thinking four 3 inch drains
Returns - 2 inches
Closed Loops - 2 inches
Sumps/Refugium - 2 150 gallon rubbermaid tubs, a 3rd 150 gallon tub for a refugium

Still debating on which epoxy I am going to go with, but this
http://www.sanitred.com/ looks very promising.

Fishroom - The walls of the room are going to be covered with a vapor barrier(plastic sheathing), then I will put up the Greenboard, and will finish it off with waterproof paint, to keep the climate in the fishroom seperate from the rest of the house.

Will also be installing an exhast fan from the fishroom that will vent out thru the garage.

[Acrylics]

Congrats :)
I would however, re-think the the thickness of the acrylic window. I personally would use 1.5" minimum, but it's JMO.

James

[sixxer]

James,

Do you think the 1" acrylic will not hold up in the long run?
I didn't price out 1.5" and would have to make sure our local company can get it.

Is it possible to put in one 3/4" sheet and then another 3/4" sheet behind that one and still have a clear view?

Thanks for your input.

[Acrylics]

Originally posted by sixxer
Do you think the 1" acrylic will not hold up in the long run?
I didn't price out 1.5" and would have to make sure our local company can get it. Depending on how it's being installed, there are two potential problems as I see it anyway:
1) While the material itself will not break due to load as acrylic is very flexible, it will bow more than I'd want to see and I'm sure more than you'd want to see. IMO 1 1/4" would be a minimum.
2) if the panel is being installed using a pressure gasket, the deflection in the material may be enough to break that seal. A pressure gasket is a layer of silicone or some other gasket material between the acrylic and frame (concrete in this case). Water pressure in the tank is pushing the acrylic panel against this gasket to make the seal. If there is too much deflection (bowing), the seal can be broken as the center of the panel pushes out, the outsides push in making the contact area of the seal smaller.

Is it possible to put in one 3/4" sheet and then another 3/4" sheet behind that one and still have a clear view?
not really, the two panels together will not be as strong as one monolithic sheet and you'll have the potential for condensation between the sheets causing odd looking bubbles and then there's the reflection thing :) where you get the front side of the second sheet reflecting light into the back side of the first sheet. Kinda like have two mirrors face to face and you get that "infinite" reflection thing.

What is the proposed viewing area of the panel?

BTW, Cyro & Polycast make 10' sheets of 1.5" as well as many other companies. Either or both are available through just about any plastic distributor in the country. It will cost more up front, but I think will be worthwhile in the long run.

James

[sixxer]

Cyro is the brand acrylic our local company gets, I will check with them today about going thicker.

The proposed viewing area would be approx. 114" x 42".

[KenT]

I've never done this but would it be better to install pipes for drains and returns when the concrete is being poured? I would think drilling concrete will not give a clean hole and not be sealable. Just a thought.

[sixxer]

KenT,

That was my original plan, but my friend who works in concrete for a living told me that drilling afterwards would be the safest way to do this, he said something about trying to form the holes for the drains and what not could "possibly" compromise the strength of the concrete around the hole if it does not cure perfectly.

To me installing it during construction would be much easier, but I would rather be safe than sorry.

[derrikd]

sounds like a good project, keep the up dates comming

[dgasmd]

I have seen 2 concrete tanks and they both had the PVC pipes put in place and the concrete poured afterwards. After the concrete was cured for weeks, they just cut the PVC and put some fitting to fit their needs. By the way, I would forget about OM units in something this big. You will need 5-6 very large pumps with 1.5" pipes to move some water.

[sixxer]

dgasmd,

You don't think the OM's will provide very good circulation running off of 2 Ampmaster 4700's? Keep in mind this is not an SPS tank.

[NAGA]

sixxer,

PolyCast makes a 6'x10' sheet in 1.5" but, it may take a while for your distributor to get it. It all depends on where PolyCast is on their run on that thickness of material.

The Cyro brand I have seen 4'x10' sheets and that may be your better bet to get sooner. 1.5" material though in general is not a normally stocked item in the oversized sheets. I wouldn't go any thinner than 1.25" for the same reasons that Acrylics mentioned and if you can bump up to the cost of the 1.5" then do it for sure. The price almost doubles when you go to that thickness. Man that stuff is a pain to move around as well.....LOL!!! Good Luck!!

[dgasmd]

I guess I should have asked what this was for, FO or soft or SPS corals. Either way, I would overdo what you can now so in the odd and inforseeable circumstance you ever feel like upgrading, the worst part is done. Even for a FO tank, I would seriously consider getting more circulation there. You'll be amazed how little circulation even the larger pumps will provide when the body of water increases. Also, if you don't care looking at them, the Tunze streams are a very good option. Put several of the larger 6200 model aimed in every direction.

[adddo]

This will be a fun thread to follow. Keep us updated!

[sixxer]

Ok, should have camera here tommorrow to take pics. of the room as it is right now.

Picking up first supplies (Greenboard, Plastic for vapor barrier, and 1/2' rebar) tommorrow after work.

First step will be insulating the three existing walls, and the ceiling, then putting up the vapor barrier and covering that with the Greenboard, followed by a yet to be determined waterproof paint (have had a few recommendations to use Killz?)

Also will be using hammer-drill to install 1/2" rebar sections in the concrete floor, upon which the walls to the tank will be poured.

Luckily I am off work for 8 days starting this Monday, so I look to get quite a bit done next week!!!!

Question on Pumps!!!! - What does anyone think about Jacuzzi pumps??? It seems that they would put out quite a bit of pressure considering how many holes they have to push water thru in a typical jacuzzi! Any thoughts?

[KenT]

Dolphin makes some pretty powerfull pumps. I think Champion Lighting has a list of all their pumps and output ratings.

[dgasmd]

Given my experience with Dolphin pumps, I would avoid them like the plague. Jacuzzi pumps are not the best choice for aquariums because they ar eloud, tend to run hot if used indoors (designed for outdoor use), and run quite a bit of electricity. Look into the Sequence 1000 series pumps. They are worth their weight in gold.

[sixxer]

dgasmd,

I have seen all kinds of positive feedback on the Ampmasters, what happened with your pumps?

I will be checking into the Sequence series, as well as a few others, luckily I have about 30 days or more before I would really even need to have them anyways.

QUESTION??? Has anyone had experience with the insulation that is blown into existing walls? My wife would rather I go this route rather then tearing down the existing walls and ceiling in the basement (and we know how important it is to keep our wives happy during this type construction!!!;) )

I'll post some pics. later this evening or in the morning!!!!

Thanks for all the input.

[dgasmd]

Look in the thread below and read my comments.

http://www.reeffrontiers.com/forums/showthread.php?p=53911#post53911

[sixxer]

Thanks for the link.

Pretty impressive CL you have installed!!!

[gwrulzmylife]

not to step on anyone's toes, but I'd check out this site and contact this guy for advice. He's done it and is still maintaining the tank. Very interesting read too.

Good luck!
http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/diy_1700g_tank_1.php

[sixxer]

I have looked at Joe's pics. and his thread on how he built his tank for the last 2 years. Unfortunately he constructed his tank of wood, whereas my tank will be constructed of concrete, and his is set up for Sharks, not a reef of any sorts. An amazing job, and great looking tank!

[delusions]

Sixxer,
Since you are building a tank from the ground up, have you given any thoughts to a surge tank? While letting my imagination run, I designed a tank larger than yours and through many wasted hours on RC, decided that multiple surges, multiple Tunze streams, as well as a few eductors would suffice for a large SPS tank. My main point is that if you can, try to setup a surge or possibly multiple surges.

[sixxer]

I have not really done a lot of research on surge tanks, so I do not know of the benefit to surge over closed loop, etc.

Got any diagrams or info. on what you dreamed up?

[delusions]

Diagram? Err, nothing that anyone could decipher. I'll try to get something that is legible.
As for the surge tanks, do a search here on RC and people will be able to explain the benefits of a surge far better than I could regurgitate right now.

[sixxer]

Real quick update.

I have all my re-bar, greenboard, plastic, plywood, 2x4's, basically everything I need for the time being except for the concrete itself.

1st stage (begins tonight)of the project will be the vapor barrier and greenboard going up in the room, then coating that with Killz.

2nd stage will be putting together the actual re-bar skeleton of the tank being constructed and then framed in with the plywood and 2x4's so that we can pour the concrete.

3rd stage will be 2 part epoxy coating of the tank

4th stage will be installation of the acrylic

many more stages to go after that (plumbing, lighting, sumps, refugium, etc.)

I had a friend take a few pics. of the room as it is now, just have to download them and then can post, so that we have a work in progress photobook of the project.



:D

[draxijn]

this sounds exactly like a project i am planning for the future. please post as many construction pics as possible so we can learn with you! good luck =)

[ObscurityKnocks]

About the blown in insulation. You still need to tear down the existing drywall. I have not done this myself, but I have seen it done. Basically you put a netting of the studs that holds in the insulation. Then you would drywall over the studs as usual.

[viggen]

can't wait to see the final product, shoot me a email & I can try to save you some $$$ on pumps & suppplies :)

[Shoestring Reefer]

Mmmm...dream tank.

What't the winter like in Cincinnati? What will you do for heating?

[sixxer]

Shoestring: Winters are typically not very bad in Cincinnati, we are lucky to get snow 4 to 5 days a year. Of course we got dumped on last night, and it's snowing now, but hopefully with the humidity from the fishroom combined with a few heaters will be more than adequate.

Viggen - For sure!;) You'll have to stop in and the project or finished product!!!

[OceanNwisconsin]

ok im jealous!

[sixxer]

Has anybody had experience with these Sequence 8400 pumps yet?

I am looking at doing two of them with the oceanmotion 8 ways, along with the return pumps.

[alvin]

Sixxer, bet you didn't think we'd get 20 inches! I'm out on the west side, and in the final stages of installing a 265 in wall. Fun stuff. Spa pumps are not made for continuous use, and get hot and are prett expensive to run. trust me, I have one in my living room, and it drives electric costs up about 40-50 bucks a month. 3 1 HP pumps, plus I seriously doubt they can handle salt water. You could always talk to Jason at Aquatics and Exotics about his large tanks. He has a 10,000 shark tank and a 2200 in wall in the store in Mt. Healthy. Just ask him to see the setup, and he'd be willing to show you everything and explain it in detail. This would probably help you more on equipment choices. I'd be intersted in stopping by to see the tank when completed. John

[sixxer]

John,

I have looked at the equipment behind Jason's 2200 gallon tank and was actually trying to find a day to head over to his store to talk to him about his actual construction(Jason is a very nice guy, and always more than willing to share his knowledge and experiences)(he has supplied me with some very nice fish as well), and more details on his equipment. I am def. not doing jacuzzi pumps, I am probably going with the new Sequence 8400's. The only think I do not like about Jason's shark tank is that he installed such small side viewing windows (of course you can look thru the top as well.

You are more than welcome to stop by and check things out, just keep an eye on this thread for progress.

Got any pics. of your install so far?

[Earl87gta]

seen you never got a answer on the blow in insalation just kut a hole big enough for the nosle of the blower to go intothe top of the wall and then fill it up the netting is only usedin new construction building codes say insolation has to be in place before the walls dride in so if their is no drywalll you have to screan it in to hold it until the inspector says your good to go. now if its already done with rolled insalation you may need to make a bigger hole so you can remove the older but still no reason to nock a hole wall down. you may also what to use the rubber panaling they have now it is in 4x8 sheets and you can glue it to the dry wall and seal the joints with silicome its white and easy to clean plus works as a great vaporbarier it is desined to be used in bathroom shower stall. I think lowes even sellsit now.

[sixxer]

Any idea what they call the rubber paneling?

[alvin]

No pictures as of yet. I had a bunch of my 180 install, but it was destroyed in a fire two days after I spent 4 months finishing it. That was back in september. It took this long to get a new tank made, delivered, and hooked up. It's currently not running because I have to go to Maryland for a month for work. I'll check back from time to time to see the progress. John

[alvin]

Here is one I just had sent to me.

http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/500/54565House_009.jpg

[H20ENG]

That paneling is called FRP -Fiberglass reinfoced plastic- (or P!ss board in the building trades:) ). Its the stuff you see in most resturant bathrooms, etc. Kind of pebble textured. Its fairly reasonable and waterproof. I've seen it in the paneling section at HD.

[Earl87gta]

Im not sure what the ruber panneling is called but I was in lowes to day and they had it . Its not the same as the fiberglass board it is a sheet of ruber it is whitew and smoth no texture at all and supper flexible you can roll it up if you want it looked abought an 1/8 thick.

[sixxer]

Originally posted by alvin
Here is one I just had sent to me.

http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/500/54565House_009.jpg

Is that your tank Alvin?

[sixxer]

Ok, visited with Jason at Aquatics and Exotics yesterday. I feel much better about my overflows and closed loop, pumps that I have planned.

The overflows are basically just 2" PVC pipes running thru the back wall of the tank, they come out a few inches, then a 90 degree elbow is installed, with a strainer on top of that, approx 4 to 6 inches from the top of the tank.

This will be the same design I will be using, basically I will have 4 of the overflows built into the tank. Two on the left and two on the right, each side will combine into a tee and then go into the individuals sumps.

[alvin]

Sixxer, yes that's my tank. It utilizes the same overflow system as Jason's 2200. You can see the overflows in the picture. He found some nice black PVC for this option. It should be up and running as soon as I get back from MD. I wasn't in a huge hurry to get it running anyway since I'll be gone all month. It has two 1.5 in drains and 4 1 in. returns. Also a 100 gallon sump directly behind it in the fish room. I have never seen anyone use this type of overflow other than Jason, but it seems to work great without any noise whatsoever. He had mine running while I wasn't there, but one of the fittings I had installed from my previous tank was leaking (nice work on my part), so he shut it down. I told him we'll take care of it when I get back. John

[chask]

sixxer,

I noticed you are going with concrete and thought this might be worth looking into. It is called Xypex - www.xypex.com.

Background - I recently purchased a house and there was a slight leak in a basement wall. I had an environmental inspector guy come out to look at it and he recommended a product called Xypex. It can be installed on walls with existing leaks. Their literature said it has been approved for use with potable water and foodstuffs. Part of the specs from their sebsite are below.

Bona fides for the envirnonmental guy - Second one I had out to the house. It had been shut in for a couple of years and there was some slight mold trouble that the realtor's inspector found and wanted a small fortune to fix. I called a friend of mine who is a commercial realtor. He put me in touch with a commercial inspector (does airports, hospitals, large buildings, etc.). This guy fixed the minor problems I had for just a few bucks in a couple of hours (about 5-10% of the other guy's bid and the other guy said he wasn't sure this would get it all) and told me about this Xypex stuff. He swears by it.

The only reservation I have is the part where it says it passes vapor. Allows the wall to breath without leaking. Not sure I understand this but it isn't the first time my understanding has been lacking. :) I called the company to talk about a salt water application and mine. They referred me to a local rep I left a message with and will post with more info when I get it.

Hope this helps,
Charles



From the Xypex site:
Noticed the website was copyrighted and didn't want to do anything that might upset them or get RC in trouble so here is the link - http://www.xypex.com/specs/spec-data.html. Notice that it is approved by EPA and Agriculture Canada for use with potable water and in contact with foodstuffs. Says it can be applied to interior ofr exterior walls and will work after the leak has already occured. Do not understand the part about letting the wall breath while still retaining water though nor how it would affect use on a concrete reef tank. They do show it used with swimming pools though.

Did a little more looking for the swimming pool apllications and found that it was used at the Shed Aquarium in Chicago - http://www.xypex.com/projects/projects.php?mode=details&project=65. It says they did 120,000 ft2 in the 5 main exhibition tanks, including (if I read it correctly) a 2 million gallon tank housing their Beluga whales. Guess it will work with salt tanks.
Also check out

[sixxer]

Thanks Chask,

I will look into this!!!!!


Got the holes drilled in the floor to start my re-bar!:D

[sixxer]

These photos are running way behind schedule, but here is the basement nook as it was before the carpet & toys came out!
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v427/aric/Tank%20Build/basement3.jpg

[chask]

Spoke to the factory rep today about Xypex. He confirmed what the website said. He indicated that the add mix version might be better for aquarium application as the stuff is mixed in with the concrete and therefore goes all the way through. The coating application has a penetration of about a foot.

Hope this helps
Charles

[DUFFY]

Aric,

Let me know when you need some labor. I am all to excited to a have an ocean just down the street!

Brian

[birdman204]

Just a note, The total linear measurement for your planned overflows is about 25 ". Make sure you have enough drains to handle the planned return pump size.
Sounds kick ***.

[sixxer]

Originally posted by DUFFY
Aric,

Let me know when you need some labor. I am all to excited to a have an ocean just down the street!

Brian

Duffy, I will let you know when the "Concrete Mixing Party" is going to be held!:D

P.S. - Leave the Speedo at home!:lol:


Chask - I called my regional rep. about Xypex today and haven't gotten a return call yet. I am also looking at Sweetwater Epoxy, and System III Epoxy.

Birdman - I planned on having 4 drains, probably will be 3" each.

[ktani]

Aric,

the setup looks quite impressive. I look forward to getting reports on what you are happy with and what you would change.

I talked with Paul at Oceans Motions before I ordered mine. He encouraged me to consider the 4 way instead of the 8 way. The reason I chose the 4 way instead of the 8 way, was for redundancy. If one failed, I could turn off one pump, replace the unit and although I would be down one unit, its impact would be less than if an 8 way failed.

Currently, I am planning on using 4x Oceans Motions 4 ways on 4 Sequence Hammerhead pumps with 1.5" thin walled pvc.

Also, I am going to put in a generator and two of the closed loops, the main pump and heater will be setup to run should I lose power. Something to think about in case of an ice storm. And being a contractor you probably get some sick discount that I can only dream about. :-)


Your system is obviously much larger than my own, you might see if you can get a mock up of the 1.5" pipes. With that kind of flow, unless you have a couple of outputs, my concern would be one of velocity rather than flow. Would you be creating a danger for the fish as the water "rockets" out of the pvc? Not quite sure, a question perhaps for Sequence. You might give them a call and chat with Ben, he has always been very helpful.

Good luck and keep us all informed.

Kip

[birdman204]

Originally posted by sixxer
The overflows are basically just 2" PVC pipes running thru the back wall of the tank,

If you're going with 3 inch pipes, then it's about 38 inches. I'd say that would be sufficient if you are using closed loops.

Man, I wish I lived closer ;)

[alvin]

I've got a real nice pipe flow program on my computer. I may be able to help with sizing etc. I could easily give you velocity numbers if I had the pumps flow rate for a given feet of head. Just use mass flow (gph)= density x Velocity x outlet area

Let me know.

[TANGBOY5000]

I'm telling you the 2" pipes will handle the flow just fine, but if you want to go 3" for peace of mind, that's cool.

[sixxer]

Originally posted by alvin
I've got a real nice pipe flow program on my computer. I may be able to help with sizing etc. I could easily give you velocity numbers if I had the pumps flow rate for a given feet of head. Just use mass flow (gph)= density x Velocity x outlet area

Let me know.

Alvin, I am looking at using Sequence Hammerhead and Seq. 8400 pumps - The 8400's would be used for the two closed loops, and would only have a max of 3 feet from pump to the back of the tank, and then running across a six foot spray bar (instead of a bunch of seperate holes)

Kip - Thanks for the insight, I originally was going to go with Oceanmotions on the closed loops (and still may do one).
But then I saw the spraybar set-up on Phisybusiness's two 500 gallon stock tubs, and thought that would be a good route for me to go.

I wish I had one of those programs where I could draw a diagram of my tank and all the plumbing like I have seen on so many others posts here!!! That would make it alot easier to discuss.

[ktani]

Tang - I agree that the 2" would be sufficient. In discussion with Sequence, I discovered that the friction loss, while still present is virtually negligible on 2" and higher pipe.

For me, the only reason to go to a larger pipe diameter is one of flow versus velocity. If the 2" "rockets" the water into the tank instead of a broad movement, I would go with larger pipe. If not, then the 2" would be fine.

Aric - The only question, one Serdar can probably answer, is do the spray bars clog up in time and then maintenance is required.

If you find a "moron" proof drawing program I would love to see it too. Not terribly computer literate here.

Kip

[CH]

I have a couple of quick comments. I'm sorry if this has been talked about, but I didn't read completely through the thread.
Make sure you use something to seal the concrete very well, otherwise the saltwater will penetrate it and corrode the rebar.
Secondly, there should be no problem insterting the plumbing, or sleeves for the plumbing, before pouring the concrete. The problem with coming back and drilling is you don't exactly know where the rebar is, and you may end up drilling a couple of times before you find and open spot. Also, by setting the pipe first, you can add a bar on each side of the opening, to reinforce it.

Otherwise, sounds like a fun project!

[sixxer]

CH - I actually have decided to lay the pipes before I pour the concrete for the exact reason you described. And I am looking at 3 different 2 part epoxy's to seal the concrete with after the pour.

Kip - I'll let you know if I find that program! LOL!!! I have thought about the possibility of clogs in the spray bar, that is why I want each eductor I have connected to it, to be screw on type, or some other sort of method that would allow me to take it appart to service in case of clogs.

[TANGBOY5000]

Sixxer, what happened with the Sani-Tred?

[chask]

Sixxer,

If you have any interest in Xypex at all you might want to look at their premix product. The stuff you apply after the pour only penetrates the concrete about a foot. They have a premix that goes in with the cement as you mix up the concrete. Then the water barrier goes all the way through.

Hope this helps. Good luck with your setup. :thumbsup:

Charles

[sixxer]

Here is one photo I was able to upload, drilling the left backhand corner for rebar
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v427/aric/Tank%20Build/Aric205.jpg

Still trying to figure out how to upload the other pics.

[draxijn]

yes! these are the kind of steps i really want to see detailed. how thick is your foundation and how deep are you drilling sixxer? are you pouring this thing in one go? how can the floor of the tank be poured at the same time as the walls? wouldn't the setup of the forms mess with that? i just had this notion that you can't pour pieces at a time?

[hdtvguy]

Looks like a great project tagging for this one.

Good Luck

[sixxer]

Originally posted by draxijn
yes! these are the kind of steps i really want to see detailed. how thick is your foundation and how deep are you drilling sixxer? are you pouring this thing in one go? how can the floor of the tank be poured at the same time as the walls? wouldn't the setup of the forms mess with that? i just had this notion that you can't pour pieces at a time?

It will be a one time pour, cannot afford any cold joints in the concrete.

Basically the tank is going to be poured directly on the basement floor, thus the reason that I have 12" rebar drilled 4"+ into the basement floor, then will be attaching the 48" long rebar to those and building a skeleton of 1/2" rebar to reinforce everything, then the forms will go in and the walls will be poured to 6" thick with 5000 PSI Concrete.

You are correct, you cannot pour pieces at a time (at least not that I am aware of, or that I would feel comfortable with!)

This coming Friday will hopefully be the concrete pouring day.

[DUFFY]

Did someone say concrete party on Friday!

[sixxer]

That is the day I am aiming for!!!!

My fish are trying to get me to speed up production!!!:lol:

[draxijn]

sixxer,

can you please post detailed photos of your forms and rebar? i've found that these steps are always mentioned but never shown. i have no construction experience and this would be invaluable!

good luck i'm cheering for you!

brett

[2004jeepoutlander]

kepp it bumping

[sixxer]

Originally posted by draxijn
sixxer,

can you please post detailed photos of your forms and rebar? i've found that these steps are always mentioned but never shown. i have no construction experience and this would be invaluable!

good luck i'm cheering for you!

brett

I have a friend taking step by step photos, it's just a matter of downloading everything.

P.S. - I have no construction experience either! Unless you count Lego's!!!:D

[sixxer]

Quick update.

I just got off the phone with some Ready Mix Concrete companies and have decided to order the concrete with Fibermesh in it to add stability!

I have also decided to go with four 2" drains for the overflow

Friday is supposed to be the day.

Pictures of each step still to follow as they get downloaded.

[sixxer]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v427/aric/Tank%20Build/basementconcrete2.jpg

[asmodeus]

tagging along cant wait to see the finished product.


mike

[sixxer]

Some updated photos.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v427/aric/Tank%20Build/f5e8f3dc.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v427/aric/Tank%20Build/f8ab6ca0.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v427/aric/Tank%20Build/31b3511f.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v427/aric/Tank%20Build/b5e5837d.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v427/aric/Tank%20Build/832d376a.jpg

[sixxer]

My personal favorite!:D

My wife and 5 month old daughter modeling the swimsuits they plan to were while swimming in the tank!:lol:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v427/aric/Tank%20Build/6872eb73.jpg

Boy, do I ever feel lucky!!!!!:D

[VegasMike]

Not to be too forward or anything, but

that figure just five months after giving birth, WOW !!!

I better not show that pic to my wife or I'll have to deal with severe depression as our third son just turned one last month.

Great project.

One question though, if you are going to rely on the floor of your basement as the bottom of the tank, aren't those joints "cold joints" and are you worried about leaks between the floor and the walls of the tank?

[sixxer]

I am actually going to pour about a 5 to 6" floor so that it is all one continuous piece of concrete.

p.s. - That is our 2nd child, I feel very fortunate to have a wife the bounces back so quickly!!!! We leave for Cabo San Lucas in two weeks and she is def. ready!:D

[Shoestring Reefer]

Sweet! And the construction, too.

[CincyCoral]

Im in love. With the soon to be tank, of course... :D

By the way the pics look great! Keep up the good work!

[sixxer]

;)

How about a little more help tonight???

[sixxer]

One more pic.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v427/aric/Tank%20Build/808f826c.jpg

Me and my son!!!! He is always wanting to help with projects!!!

[chask]

sixxer,

Really great looking - tank setup that is. How tall did you decide to go? I recall reading 36-40" before. Thumbed through the thread but did not notice a final decision - I am getting older and tend to miss things. :) Still wondering about height for my tank. Would like to go more than 30-32" + DSB. Seems like once you get taller than arm's reach the next several inches would not make much difference. After maybe a foot or so more (past arm's reach) it might start to be a problem again and you might as well plan on getting into it. Would appreciate your thoughts about this and reasoning for choosing the height you did. Also, is this the first one this tall you have done? Any friends with taller tanks that helped you choose?

Also, I noticed that the pictures of you and the tank are much larger than the picture of your wife and daughter. Though many of the girls here may prefer that, it seems unfair to the guys. Are you trying to give us all eye strain? Just kidding, big time. Not prompting for a larger one - bad enough being addicted to fish, don't need a bunch of pictures of pretty girls (particularly in skimpy bathing suits) to make me spend even more time on RC. Remember this is supposed to be about fish. :D (should be one of these for a dropping jaw or something) Always tell my two boys - Nice and good looking Mom + good looking Dad almost always makes for one heck of a daughter. Maybe she'll go for 8-10 year older men in about 25-30 years.

Thanks
Charles

[El_Chico]

Sixxer, you are the luckiest man alive...

[sixxer]

245gl - Thank you. I have been blessed!:)

Chask -
It is looking like 42" will be the height. This will be the first tank I have had that is this tall. I chose to go with this depth because I really do not want to cut my 48" tall piece of acrylic down, and I figured the fish will enjoy the extra space!:D
I am thinking I will have a catwalk of sorts over the tank to access some of the areas near the front since I will only have access from the back.

Regarding the pick!


:lol: I actually did that because I did not want to offend anyone.

Our daughter certainly is a looker, and only at 5 months!!! LOL!!!

But you will have to contend with big brother about that!!!!:lol:

Thanks for that compliment by the way.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v427/aric/Tank%20Build/bathingsuit2.jpg

Maybe I should make that my avatar!!!!!:D

[sixxer]

Just finished up doing the backside of the tank in rebar!

Should be posting some pics. soon!!!!

Boy this job would move so much faster without the Bud Light!!!!:lol:

[H20ENG]

Bud Light = Mind and muscle lubricant, and a neccesary tool for DIY! :D
So have you seen the thread on Thumpertalk.com about pics of girlfriends on bikes???
Kick A$$, sixxer!
Chris

[sixxer]

Wait a minute!!!!

You ride 4 Strokes Chris????

My second Passion!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[sixxer]

OH!!!!! I see Chris!!! You ride a WR426!!!! I ride a YZ400F!!!

SWEET!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[H20ENG]

Not enough, but I've been riding since I was about 8.
02 WR426 at the moment. I LOVE that thing!!! Pull your friggin arms off:D
How about you?

[sixxer]

1999 YZ400F!!!!

This was my first year on a four stroke! I am hooked!!!!!!

Been riding off-road since I was 13!!!!!

I live about 15 minutes from Honda Hair Scramble factory rider Scott Summres!!!! Man is it fun riding out on his farm!!!!:D

[H20ENG]

beat me to it.

I've had it about a year, but only ridden it a few times. The 96dB rule is killing these blue bikes here in CA. I have an E series, and have been building different inserts to try and quiet it. I dont want a $150 ticket. I dont race, but love to go up in the mountains and torture myself.

[H20ENG]

That guy is awesome! Oh, and you suck!:D I have mucho respect for him kicking a$$ on that big heavy 600!
Now pour that concrete!

[sixxer]

LOL!!!!!

I do not race either!!!!

Just love to go out to the local track or my buddies 350 acre farm and take out some aggression!!!!!!!!!!!!!

That bike beats me to death!!!!:lol: In a fun way!!!! (most non-bikers would not understand that statement!)

[sixxer]

Originally posted by H20ENG
That guy is awesome! Oh, and you suck!:D I have mucho respect for him kicking a$$ on that big heavy 600!
Now pour that concrete!

It was kind of scary about 5 or 6 years ago when we were riding with him and he jumped one of his many creek crossing, and ran straight into a tree!!!! They had to airlift him out of there!!!

Needless to say, I put my bike away until just this year after seeing that!:eek:

He is a great person by the way!!!!! I guess I would be to if I had 23 bikes sitting in my barn!!!!

Concrete is coming Friday.

[ktani]

Aric,

thats your wife? Ok I was wrong, I do not like you anymore. ;)

After much thinking and seeing Vegas Mike's tank, I have redone my office reef tank and going to put an area behind it for a sink, etc to work.

Please keep us updated on the progress, it looks good and I am taking notes.

Kip

[sixxer]

I have quite a few updated photos, it's just a matter of downloading them with the right software and posting them.


:lol: Regarding the wife comment!!!!:D I am lucky!!!!

[birdman204]

H20Eng... Mountains.. Our family has a place in blue jay, riding in cedar glen, pinnacles, silverwood... familiar at all? Never been this far south?
Well I'm going up to middle creek/upper lake next weekend , camping and riding. ktm450mxc, Love them trails.
Sorry about keeping it off topic.
Was I right remembering you saying this was in a basement? Would be cool to plumb a few skylights in if possible, but in a basement, that'd be tough.

[SpaceFish]

Did you get all your concrete work finished? As for the pix.. what OS are you runnin?

~R

[sixxer]

Birdman - It is in the basement! I would love to be able to go with skylights! Unfortunately there is a bedroom right above where this tank is being built


Originally posted by SpaceFish
Did you get all your concrete work finished? As for the pix.. what OS are you runnin?

~R

I see you got your avatar worked out Spacefish!!!:D

As far as an update goes, I ran into a friend who does concrete for a living Wednesday. Told him all my plans and he offered to lend me some concrete forms and get me the concrete at cost.
Well, Thurs and Fri. both came and went and he couldn't make time in his schedule to get the forms to my house. I am very impatient so I am going to go ahead and build the forms as I originally planned. So now concrete has been pushed back, hopefully only until Monday!!!!!!

[SpaceFish]

Originally posted by sixxer
I see you got your avatar worked out Spacefish!!!:D

?I think you referring to me resizing Frankie's avatar at the other forum?
Originally posted by sixxer
I... So now concrete has been pushed back, hopefully only until Monday!!!!!!

Well I'm getting impatient with ya and its not even my gig!! :)

Good luck

~R

[sixxer]

[i]

Well I'm getting impatient with ya and its not even my gig!! :)

Good luck

~R [/B]

:lol: :lol:

Well, you only live about 10 minutes from my house!!! Grab a concrete mixer and come over!!!!:D ;)

[sixxer]

Ok, a few new pics. (believe it or not, I actually was helping!)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v427/aric/Tank%20Build/a0b39c1b.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v427/aric/Tank%20Build/ed80dbac.jpg


In this pic. we are making "beer hangers" with the Re-bar wire!!!
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v427/aric/Tank%20Build/8305dd07.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v427/aric/Tank%20Build/8837cdf8.jpg

[sixxer]

one more

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v427/aric/Tank%20Build/basementconcrete17.jpg

[sixxer]

Also, wanted to say thanks to the two guys helping me so far!

As you can see they were rewarded with "The King":lol:

[H20ENG]

Birdman,
Never ridden that far South. I know theres some good spots down there! KTM! Nice ride!
Sixxer,
Those are great rebar caps!

[sixxer]

[i] Sixxer,
Those are great rebar caps! [/B]

We were running out of spots to place all the empty ones!!!

:D

[birdman204]

Better slow down on emptying them beers, lest the rebar be laid askew.
Sixxer, Kings Island? My mother lives about 1 mile Birds eye view, visiting her in summer as a kid, I remember getting nightly fireworks shows. Now that I think about her house, a basement would have been WONDERFUL for a tank build. What was the thinckness of your foundation? How strong will it need to be for a tank of this size? I mean, we're talking some serious weight distribution here, for a foundation.

H20ENG - Riding's riding, It's almost as much fun for me just riding down the street, (well ok, not really). Hey your WR was what got me wanting a thumper. See you on the trails! :D

[TANGBOY5000]

Nice rebar work, keep it up.

[SpaceFish]

Well I don't have a concrete mixer but I can bring a big *** wooden spoon! :)

Hey Sixxer, looking back at the pix, it looks like you tore down a wall? If thats the case then are you going to build another one around the viewing area?(in wall tank) And that leads to my next question, where is this room at in basement? What I saw before was a play area. I'm just wondering what the rest of the room will be like.

~R

[sixxer]

Yes Spacefish that is exactly what my plan is!!!!

Yes it is in the basement, and the rest of the room is still up for debate, Wet-Bar, Lounge, etc.!!!!!

[SpaceFish]

Originally posted by sixxer
...the rest of the room is still up for debate, Wet-Bar, Lounge, etc.!!!!!

Sweet. I vote: Bar area, leave some room to lounge, leave corner for , and the dance floor. Partytime!
:spin3::thumbsup::lol2::lolspin::spin3:

~R

[SaltwaterNovice]

Sixxer:

Heres a little present for ya.

Check out this website. http://hettick.netfirms.com/1000gallontank.html

It chronicles, with detailed pictures, comments and prices, the construction of a 1000 gallon concrete tank from start to finnish. "Rbell47's 1000 Gallon Tank"

His tank seems to be very similar to the tank that you want to construct. Note the "keyways" he made to keep the walls from "pushing out". I do not know if this is necessary but it seems like a good idea.

Hope this helps.

Good luck.

Best,

Brian

[MarkS]

Originally posted by SaltwaterNovice

His tank seems to be very similar to the tank that you want to construct. Note the "keyways" he made to keep the walls from "pushing out". I do not know if this is necessary but it seems like a good idea.


I do not quite understand his reasoning for doing this. It makes sense if the walls were made separate and placed onto the dry floor, but the walls are poured onto the dry floor. Basically, the keyways have no effect since the tank is now 100% solid with no gaps.

[draxijn]

his tank wasn't poured all at once from what i read. he did the each wall in fact in several pieces. looking at the keywalls i'd have made them even deeper.

can anyone say whether or not this multi-pour process is very safe? when i undertake my own project i'd like to do it in one solid piece. does pouring a piece up to another or on top of another really cement those halves together very well?

i've never worked with concrete. this method seems easier than trying to pour walls and floor in one go not to mention the forms would have to be made to allow everything to be poured at once. that alone seems to me to be difficult.

brett

[Shoestring Reefer]

I think (but I may be wrong) that basements are poured by first pouring the floor, then pouring the walls. And they seem strong enough.

[carpetride]

Sixxer, if your looking for some ideas on the rest of the basement you might want to look at the thread started by hrck He's got a nice view and even better watering hole :)

[MarkS]

Most skyscrapers are built in that fashion. The foundations are poured, then the first floor (actual floor, not first story) followed by vertical concrete support beams and walls, followed by another floor, etc., etc., etc. When the concrete drys, it is as though it was one solid piece.

[Shoestring Reefer]

So, would it be possible to add a dividing wall (with a hole for a window) to an existing basement, with rebar in the new wall and tying it into the existing walls and floor, and have a big tank? And a whole lotta basement moisture proofing.

[TANGBOY5000]

It's possible, should you do it, probably not. Could you do it, sure. It might even keep your foundation from cracking and settling since you would have the water pressing out and the earth pressing in.

[Shoestring Reefer]

sixxer-I hope you don't mind if I dream in your thread.
Originally posted by TANGBOY5000
It's possible, should you do it, probably not. I think I'm gonna have to, someday. :) Considering the cost of a foundation (relative to the cost of an entire home) adding an extra wall with window should not be a big deal. I'm thinking 20' X 5' X 4' high (fish-only), a bit over 3000 gal, I think. Now I just need enough money to build a new home. Actually, here up north I bet that a few hundred square feet of concrete tank in direct contact with the cold winter earth would make heating a challenge, so I wonder if a layer of in-tank insulation would be a good idea?

[speakeraddict]

You have a pretty deep freeze line up there from what I found on the net. 24 to 30"

If the tank were below this line, then heating wouldn't be so bad. In fact it would help keep the heat down in the summer.

You would be looking at commercial grade heaters for a tank that size regardless. It would cost you probably 50 to 100 a month just for the power to the heaters!

This is one of the things that a lot of folks don't take into account when building really big tanks; the ongoing cost of power.

I helped (in1992) build a 3200 gallon shark tank in a garage with the glass into the living area of a home in Alabama. The tank was concrete, rebar and chicken wire then coated with water tank paint. The glass was laminated 2" thick. The tank and filter system only cost around $10000. The problem was, even with the very low lighting, the electricity was over $200 a month on a seperate meter.

This is the only thing that has kept me from doing it myself.

When I do an addition in the next few years, I am planning a room that will have it's own a/c unit and have the ability to vent humidity to the outside. This room will house the tank (12 x 6 x 5) the 1000 gallon+ filter system and related.

Just the room will cost in excess of $5000 to build over the rest of the addition, and that is not counting the $10000+ to build the tank and stock it.

I don't mean to discourage you. Quite the opposite, I want to see folks really do this well and be able to keep it instead of tearing it out in a year when they realize the maintenance and ongoing costs are astronomical.

speakeraddict

[sixxer]

You def. need to keep in mind the monthly budget when you plan a tank of this size.

Luckily I am covered!!!:D

I haven't had any recent updates, as I have been waiting on a few people to come thru with actual concrete forms (of course to save me some cash).

Looks like I may not be able to do any more construction until I get back from Cabo San Lucas!!!!!

Shoestring! Dream Away!!! Nothing more fun than planning the big upgrade!!!

[jmmacc]

sixxer, just a thought on your reinforcing steel layout for the tank. I'm not sure of your existing concrete slab condition ie thickness compressive strength etc. but I see you've dowled into the slab with the rebar stubs, this will help keep the base of the wall from moving out (shear) so you wont need a keyway as suggested might be needed but it really wont help the bending moment induced at the base of the walls unless the slab is really thick and the bars extend down several inches. I'm assuming the tank will be fully open at the top = no structural top brace so the walls will act as cantilevered retaining walls. You have basic geometery working for you due to the box shape, but I might suggest adding 90 deg bent bars at each of your vertical bars with the other leg of the bend extending into the new floor slab of the tank much like what you've done for the corner horizontal bars. Just a suggestion FWIW

[SaltwaterNovice]

I disagree with the description of how basements are constructed. At least in the northeast, "footings" are first poured. The basement walls are then poured on top of the footings and then the actual basement floor is poured. I can not comment on skyscraper construction.

Pouring the floor and walls of the tank at the same time would give the best bonding between them. However, it wolud be very difficult to do this because the concrete wants to seek its own level, i.e. the concrete in the wall forms would want to drain into the floor area.

You would have to construct a "closed" floor form that would stop the concrete on the floor from rising beyond the desired height which woulld prevent the concrete in the wall forms from drianing down into the floor area.


Shoestring:

You can and should build your basement tank. The water pressure against any of the side walls of your foundation is negligible. If you don't believe me remeber that a 1.5 inch piece of acrylic can withstand the pressure. To be extra cautious, I would add some additional enforcement to the front wall.

Also check to see whether your foundation is poured concrete or cement block. Poured is stronger.

Either way you could pour new walls inside the "old" basement walls. If you are concerned regarding heating issues just place some sytrofoam sheets between the new and old walls for insulation.

Sixxer:

Please keep us updated with your progress. This is a great project.

Best,

Brian

[draxijn]

saltwater: i had envisioned some sort of form that had a 'roof' over the floor area. cool to hear it's a real thing! i'm wondering how you can smooth/compact the floor and level it out when the form would obstruct this. you can't see under the form to even know whether your floor is the desired thickness. any knowledge to share regarding this?

would you fill the walls and let the cement run into the floor form in the bottom?

brett

[SaltwaterNovice]

Drax:

I don't know anyone that has used a single pour method but, hey anything is possible.

If I were to use that method, I would pour the floor and then quickly cover it with the "roof" form. I don't think you would need to smooth or level it.

After I poured the floor and while it was still "loose" I would pour the floor walls. If you used a light (watery) mix the concrete from the walls would seek its own level, i.e. push the floor concrete up against the "roof" form.

Although preferable, I do not think the single pour is a necessity. There are many that have blazed this path already who know this answer.

Rbell47, Richard Harker and Mr. 4000 have all built concrete tanks but Rbell is the only one that I have been able to find information on exactly how he constructed his tank. Obviously, he made several pours with sucess. I can't find info on the construction of the other concrete tanks.

Best,

Brian

[sixxer]

Brian,

I was under the impression that pouring the walls, & floor of the tank at different times would create "cold seals" (I think that is what they are called) that takes away from the stability of the walls, and gives a much higher risk of cracking, and or breaking?

Am I wrong on this?

Thanks

[jmmacc]

Cold joints are a weak point in concrete construction, however reinforcing steel can make up for the lack of bonding between the two surfaces. The main draw back in your case with a cold joint is it's a much larger potential leak line. But if you seal the entire inside of the tank with epoxy paint or another waterproof membrane as mentioned earlier it shouldn't be a problem.

[WAGERJA]

sixxer, if you do end up doing multiple pours I would look into adding a moisture/leak stop. This is a small ~1"x1/16" ribbon of plastic that stops moisture from penetrating a cold joint. The bottom half goes in the top of the first pour and the second pour covers the top half. Like this…

......2nd...........|
outside --------|---------|---- inside tank
.......1st...........|
...................rebar.......stop

[dogstar74]

Two things, one, I'd like to bump this thread again, and two, Wagerja, I am sorry but I really don't understand that last diagram.

[SaltwaterNovice]

Sixxer:

I agree that cold joints are weaker than if you poured the tank all at once but I don't know if the cold joints would be strong enough to stay together/not leak, once filled with water. That why I pointed out the key ways used by Rbell.

JMMAC makes an excellent point. I woud be more concerned that the cold joints would leak than the tank wall would collapse.

I am not familiar with the moisture barrier WAGERJA suggested but it sounds like a good idea to me.

Try contacting Mr. 4000 and ask him this question. He is involved in the construction industry and did a lot of the work on the tank himself. He should know the answer to this question.

Use his method. If his tank didn't collapse/leak then yours won't either.

He recently posted in the large tank forum here on RC.

Best,

Brian

[WAGERJA]

Originally posted by dogstar74
Two things, one, I'd like to bump this thread again, and two, Wagerja, I am sorry but I really don't understand that last diagram. it’s a cross section of he concrete tank wall. Please read below.

Ok, I have not build a concrete tank but I've designed a couple concrete holding vessels for industrial applications. So here is some free advice, take it for what it's worth.

I would do this in two pours, 1st because there is very real possibility that trying to do it in one will not go well (i.e. frantic shoveling of quickly drying concrete out of the basement after a form pops) and 2nd two pours can be done to be just as strong as one.

One possible problem with doing one pour is that getting all the air out of the bottom of the form, and the other is you will have a limited ability to inspect whether or not you have done so.

Two things you can do to counter this are using a submersion concrete vibrator tool(basically shakes the p-ss outta the wet concrete and forces the air out of the concrete) and/or cut multiple 1"dia holes in the "roof form" and have plugs premade and ready to screw down as the pour rises. Neither of these two tactics is foolproof. The vibrator maybe hard to come be and IS going to be a PITA to use with your relatively tall narrow forms, and the holes in the roof may not let all the air out.

Ok, this how I would go about doing two pours.
Your rebar work looks good.. but I would follow jmmacc’s suggestion
“but I might suggest adding 90 deg bent bars at each of your vertical bars with the other leg of the bend extending into the new floor slab of the tank much like what you've done for the corner horizontal bars. Just a suggestion FWIW”

Next build the out side form to 10in. high. Then build the “roof form” with a depth of one 2by4 plus a ½” sheet of plywood = ~4”. This would give you a 6” floor depth(a safe over build). Then make your keyway form. You more then likely don’t “Need” a keyway with rebar extending between pours but it’s so easy to do and can’t hurt. Plus I tend to over build the snot outta my stuff unless I have really good calculations done by and engineer I trust. Jmmacc want to run a finite element analyst? ha ha ha, sorry, engineering joke. Anyway get some 1.5” or 2” foam insulation and cut it in this shape \_/ . no more then ~2” wide or 1/3 your wall thickness. I’m not sure where you would source the moisture/leak stop but the wide plastic ribbon used to hold large bundles of wood together at a lumberyard come to mind. Now after you have dry fit every thing its time to pour. Pour about 7” in your form with out the “roof form” in place. Then place the “roof form” in and twist and settle it in until the top is even with the top of the outside form (after you add more concrete it may start to “float up” adding some weight may help). Square and even it up. Fill close to the top then add the key by puncturing the foam and sliding it down the rebar until its flush with the top of the forms. Add the last of the concrete to fill any low spots. After it has started to set-up come back and slip the moisture/leak stop sinking half the ribbon width in the drying concrete. This stop is important. The joint area is very susceptible to moisture penetration and paint is likely to crack at this line for various reasons that I won’t get into.(this post is ungodly long as it is). The stop will make the moisture take the long way around there by protecting your rebar. Which would get rusted out in short order once SW got to it and seriously weaken the structure. That’s why the stop goes between the rebar and where the water will be.

The second pour is petty self-explanatory. After the first pour has set remove the foam keyway form, place higher forms inside and out. Then fill.

Jay
:eek2: woh this post is long, I need to get a life or a job or something!!

[crescent1]

more wife pics please.

[alvin]

I think he is on vacation in a nice warm sunny place. You may get lucky when he gets back.

[Ken Sellick]

Looks good, I hope you are putting down a 2" layer of rigid insulation on the floor and the exterior wall before you pour.

[Jamesurq]

why? Wouldn't the relative stability of the temperature of the ground actually help? More effectively in the summer months obviously... Kind of like passive geothermal temperature control?

[CincyCoral]

Yeah, lucky Sixxer is in Cabo San Lucas with that wife of his... I'm jealous on both accounts! :D

[Shoestring Reefer]

But in the winter, if he has a sandbed, won't he risk the low ground temps wiping out his sandbed population?

I don't know, maybe this isn't a problem, just wondering.

[chask]

Shoestring Reefer -

Put some undergravel heating cables in. That would keep the bed warm and keep the rest of the tank hot too. Might also help with longevity of the bed, particularly if it is deep.

chask

[sixxer]

Got in from Cabo last night! All I can say is WOW!!!! Beautiful area. I'll try and get some pics. from the trip up for everyone to see. It was very cool seeing fish that I have in my aquarium in their natural habitat, and all kinds of fish I have never seen before.

Back to work on the DIY this week!!!!!


CincyCoral, maybe if your good I'll throw in a pic. of the wife on the beach!!

p.s. - thanks for helping make sure all my fish survived while I was gone!:)

[hdtvguy]

Welcome back! Glad you guys had a safe trip home! Now get back to work on the tank! LOL :)

[TANGBOY5000]

No kidding chop, chop. You got in last night and no new pics? I mean what were you doing all night? hehehe

[El_Chico]

Any updates?

[ELCID]

This project is killing me. Need picture injection or I will go nutz!!!!

[sixxer]

I got a little lazy after my trip to Cabo, but I picked up some more supplies last night, and hope to have a lot more updates of my progress over the next two days.

It's killing me as much as everyone else. I want this tank finished and up and running ASAP. My fish are getting angry with my progess!:lol:

[TANGBOY5000]

It's got to get done by March 5 or you won't have anywhere to put all your frags from the frag swap.

[sixxer]

Originally posted by TANGBOY5000
It's got to get done by March 5 or you won't have anywhere to put all your frags from the frag swap.

:lol:

I still have my current 300 gallon tank I can keep all my Frags in!!!!!:D

[willra]

Any updates?

[sixxer]

Re-bar has been completed and forms will hopefully be finished tommorrow. I'll post some new pics. tommorrow night or monday.

[The R/C Man]

sixxer,

I am really looking forward to seeing your finished tank. :D

Someday in the future when I stop moving all the time and have my own place I would love to do something similar to your project. Curently I am putting together a 360 gallon which is probably about as big I can move with out to much trouble.

Keep posting the pics.

[ktani]

Aric,

hope the trip to Cabo went well. I love that place, did you by chance see a boat in the marina called the Bob Marlin? A great boat.

Yes, please keep us informed, especially as you get to the electrical and plumbing phase.

Kip

[sixxer]

Ok, I have to decide pretty quick if I am going to go with Acrylic or glass for my viewing windows in my DIY tank. Looking for some thoughts or suggestions on my current dilemma.

Starting the framework for the window areas of my tank and I have to decide ASAP what height and length I am going with.

My biggest dilemma is that if I build a viewing window that is 10 foot by 36 inches is that acrylic sheets only come in 10 x 4 sheets, therefore I could not go with a 10 foot wide window, I currently have an 8 foot tank and def. want to have more length and height in my viewing area. I know they make 12 foot sheets but I think the cost my get ridiculous to go that route.

So, do I go with glass? If so, does anyone know of anyone local that I could get glass that could be used in an aquarium and withstand all the pressure?

Thanks for any insight and/or suggestions you can give.

[sixxer]

Ok, I have to decide pretty quick if I am going to go with Acrylic or glass for my viewing windows in my DIY tank. Looking for some thoughts or suggestions on my current dilemma.

Starting the framework for the window areas of my tank and I have to decide ASAP what height and length I am going with.

My biggest dilemma is that if I build a viewing window that is 10 foot by 36 inches is that acrylic sheets only come in 10 x 4 sheets, therefore I could not go with a 10 foot wide window, I currently have an 8 foot tank and def. want to have more length and height in my viewing area. I know they make 12 foot sheets but I think the cost my get ridiculous to go that route.

So, do I go with glass? If so, does anyone know of anyone local that I could get glass that could be used in an aquarium and withstand all the pressure?

Thanks for any insight and/or suggestions you can give.

Cabo was beautiful.

I wish I was already doing plumbing and electric!!!!!

[sixxer]

Ok, I have to decide pretty quick if I am going to go with Acrylic or glass for my viewing windows in my DIY tank. Looking for some thoughts or suggestions on my current dilemma.

Starting the framework for the window areas of my tank and I have to decide ASAP what height and length I am going with.

My biggest dilemma is that if I build a viewing window that is 10 foot by 36 inches is that acrylic sheets only come in 10 x 4 sheets, therefore I could not go with a 10 foot wide window, I currently have an 8 foot tank and def. want to have more length and height in my viewing area. I know they make 12 foot sheets but I think the cost my get ridiculous to go that route.

So, do I go with glass? If so, does anyone know of anyone local that I could get glass that could be used in an aquarium and withstand all the pressure?

Thanks for any insight and/or suggestions you can give.

Cabo was beautiful.

I wish I was already doing plumbing and electric!!!!!

[TANGBOY5000]

Economy Glass should be able to help you out, I believe they can get Starphire or some other type of low iron glass. My vote is glass, even though it will be heavier and maybe even more expensive, because if I had to look at a scratch in a $2500 piece of acrylic I would go insane.

[Shoestring Reefer]

Don't forget, glass scratches, too. I've got a used/abused 125 with scratches all over the front.

[sixxer]

Tangboy, is Economy Glass a local company? Do they have a web-site?

Thanks

[TANGBOY5000]

Yeah they're local, I don't know about a web-site. Their number is 661-7748.

[sixxer]

Thanks for the info.

[H20ENG]

With the acrylic, you can buff out that scratch, with glass it will be there for eternity.
The acrylic will probably be easier to get, and have better clarity- even when compared to starphire.
You are right, 10' sheets are fairly common, but get your wallet out for anything bigger!
I'd give at least a 6" mounting flange on a panel that big. We built one and used 1/4" 316 SS concrete anchors every foot or so. Drilled the acrylic (slightly oversize holes for getting the heavy sucker in place) for the bolts, sealed the heck out the flange and bolted it up with large fender washers. Then we coated the nuts and washers with epoxy. Never ANY drips or rust.
BTW, we epoxied the whole tank before glazing it.
HTH
Chris

[sixxer]

Thanks for that info. Chris, I actually had not even thought of putting bolts thru it into the tank wall, very good idea. Is there any way to figure out if a 3" flange all the way around, with bolts would work? Are those concrete anchors something that a Home Depot or Lowes would carry? Did you install the anchors after the tank had cured? I plan on coating the entire inside with Sweetwater Two part epoxy 30 days after the tank is poured.

[H20ENG]

Probably not at HD since they were 316. Get them from Mcmaster. We used wedge anchor bolts. Go about 1.5" deep in the concrete and YES let it cure at LEAST a month before using them. Concrete will achieve most of its strength after 28 days, but the longer, the better. You could also just epoxy in 316 SS threaded rod if you wanted.
3" is pushing it, but it'd probably seal. Are you having a top brace on the acrylic, or just having the acrylic as the top edge? Cant remember by page 7:) You will need a thick piece to avoid deflection over 10'!
One more thing about using acrylic vs glass... If your window pillar pour is off plane by a tad, acrylic will better "absorb" that flaw than glass.

[sixxer]

I had actually planned on the acrylic going to the top ledge of the tank, and I was looking at 1" to 1.5" thick acrylic.

[ELCID]

And?

[TANGBOY5000]

How about 3" thick just to be safe?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=61795&item=3874687817&rd=1

[speakeraddict]

That would make one hell of a nano tank or subwoofer box!!!

:)

speakeraddict

[TANGBOY5000]

You could make a nano and still have enough left over for a large viewing window. They have another piece that is only 37" high, but 15 ft. long.

[MagnumReefer]

Hey sixxer...

Got anymore pics coming???

Loking forward to them,

Darryl

[sixxer]

I am hoping to have some more in the next couple of days:)

[TANGBOY5000]

Damn, I saw you posted and got all excited.

[sixxer]

I need a program that draws these neat little diagrams like I keep on seeing!!!!!!!!!

I am going to finish up the forms for my back wall on the tank this week and I need to drill all my drains and returns. Wanted some input from everyone on returns from the sump, and the closed loop drains returns, etc.!!!!!!

GETTING CLOSER TO POURING CONCRETE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[DUFFY]

Aric,

I am still game for the concrete pouring party :bum: .

B

[CincyCoral]

You know Im still in as well! I cant wait to see this thing finished...

[sixxer]

Thanks Brian and Jeff! Believe me, I will let you know when I need the extra man power to get the concrete done!!!!

[TANGBOY5000]

Count me in as well.

[sixxer]

FINALLY!!!!! A new picture to show.

Not a very good picture, but at least you get somewhat of a visual update

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v427/aric/Tank%20Build/MVC-020F.jpg

This is before putting up any of the 2x4, 2x6's along with the wall-ties (from the concrete company).

Just have to finish putting it all together and I will be ready for some concrete!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:D

[sixxer]

One more
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v427/aric/Tank%20Build/MVC-002F.jpg

[CPT. MURPHY]

looking good so far. :)

[azguy]

weren't we promised some more wife pics??? :)

[Ken Sellick]

I hope you are using superplasticizer, corrosion inhibitor, and air entraining.

[sixxer]

Originally posted by Ken Sellick
I hope you are using superplasticizer, corrosion inhibitor, and air entraining.

Ummm. the room will be enclosed from the rest of the house once the concrete is poured and yes an air/exchanger will be used, I assume that is what an Air Entraining is?

By the way Ken, what is a BWM????:D

[houston220]

Air Entraining agents are mixed in the concrete as are corrosion inhibitors. They are reasonably common on bridge decks to keep salt from attacking the rebar.

The superplasticizer makes the concrete flow better as if you had added more water to the mixiture. The more water, the lower the strength (in general terms).

If you are already asking the concrete company to add other "ingredients" to the concrete, have them check before adding any other items. They all have effects.

You also need to get some advice on coating the wood with some form release agent as well as a curing compound which is put on the concrete after the forms are removed to help keep the concrete from cracking. Some of these chemicals may not be good for saltwater tanks. I would ask someone that has built a concrete tank before.

[sixxer]

Houston,

I am having Fiber-Mesh mixed into the concrete and using Acrol-60 (I think that is the name) for my release agent on the plywood,

The inside walls and top of the concrete are going to be coated with Sweetwater 2 part epoxy (3 coats) about 30 days after the concrete is poured to make the tank safe for livestock.

[sambo]

All I can say is................DAMN!!!! That's one sweet outfit you got going there!

[CH]

One thought, and I don't know if this has been covered yet, but a few threads back there was discussion about one pour, vs two pours, cold joints etc. There is a product called hydrotite by a company called Greenstreak

http://www.greenstreak.com/div3/Waterstops/hydrotite.asp

We have used this on several pools, and it is a great product. If you have any places that would need a watertight seal (between the floor and bottom of the wall for example) I would look into it.
It is basically a gooey rubber that expands when it gets wet, sealing the cold joint in the concrete tightly.

If you have already figured out all of the waterproofing, I apologize, but maybe somebody else might find it useful!

[houston220]

The fiber mesh is great stuff. It adds an incredible amount of crack control strength to the concrete. I am not familiar with that brand of form release but there are literally hundreds.

It looks like you have done lots of research and planning. Can't wait to see this tank with a few years of growth.

[TANGBOY5000]

Thanks for the link CH, I'll find something to use that on.

[SaltwaterNovice]

Sixxer:

You might want to check into adding a strengthening agent to the concrete. I believe the common trade names are micro fume or micro silica. This compound is used in concrete that will be used in underwater applications.

It is supposed to significantly increase the concretes strength. If I remeber correctly, it will turn 3,000 psi concrete to 10,000 psi concrete.

Keep up the good work.

Best,

Brian

[snowroach]

Wow, looks amazing, any more recent pics?

[Muligan]

wow this is going to be an awsome set up can't wait for some more pics..

[sixxer]

I hopefully will have some new pics. up later tonight. I have all the wall ties and anchoring system at my house and just need to plug it all together!!!!!

So if all goes well tonight, the forms will be finished and ready for the concrete.

I am still kind of up in the air on whether to plumb 2 closed loops along with my returns, and then a possible surge tank return as well!!!!!

[TANGBOY5000]

Why don't you just go ahead and put all the holes in for those systems, and then if you decide to do it GREAT, if not just cap off the pipes. That will give you the most flexibility, because you only get to pour it once.

[sixxer]

Originally posted by TANGBOY5000
Why don't you just go ahead and put all the holes in for those systems, and then if you decide to do it GREAT, if not just cap off the pipes. That will give you the most flexibility, because you only get to pour it once.

Might just have to go that route.

[Steve M UK]

Just caught this thread... great stuff and good luck!

[Steve M UK]

Just caught this thread... great stuff and good luck!

[H20ENG]

I'm with Tangboy. And put in ten more while you are at it:) You will always find a use for them later.

[sixxer]

Having trouble loading my photos for some reason, but here are a couple from tonight.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v427/aric/Tank%20Build/IMAG0027.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v427/aric/Tank%20Build/IMAG0029.jpg

[sixxer]

One more for tonight.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v427/aric/Tank%20Build/IMAG0038.jpg

[sixxer]

Two more

Basically at this point I have the wall-ties running thru both pieces of plywood on all the forms, and then each wall-tie is anchored by those latch mechanisms you see every two feet on the forms, you then insert 2x4's and crank down the latches to give your forms the support for the weight of the concrete. Still have a few things left to do before concrete can be poured, but hopefully that will all be done tonight.

Will drill all my holes for returns, CL's, Surge, etc. tonight as well and insert the PVC sleeves.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v427/aric/Tank%20Build/IMAG0036.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v427/aric/Tank%20Build/IMAG0035.jpg

[TANGBOY5000]

How many screws do you think you've gone through now?

[sixxer]

Too many to count!!!! And not finished yet!!!!!!!

[TANGBOY5000]

Hehehe, it looks like it. So what do you think your screw to beer ratio will end up being? LOL

[ctsieber]

any updates?

[bassman57]

you have probably already said this, but real quick, about how many gallons will this be?

[Gerard Alba]

update????

[SpaceFish]

I think this project went on hold for a different tank.:artist:

[jeno]

maybe he decided to upgrade:D

[cseeton]

How have those molds worked for you? Did the concrete get poured yet?

[The R/C Man]

Yes, inquiring minds want to know. :D

[Alphabet]

tagging along!! looks great

[cmulawka]

i was just wondering how are you going to seal the acyrlic viewing panel also are you just going to sael the floor and cement walls???

[H20ENG]

He has abandoned the project and is setting up a prefabbed tank.
I would have loved to see this one, too!

[annetate]

are you anywhere along with this project.. its been a year?