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MUCHO REEF
02/20/2005, 09:58 PM
*****This is a very long read, my apologies.******

It was shortly after Christmas 2004, I was sitting in front of my reef tank watching the actinic glitter lines rippling in my system. I thought back to everything that each of you had posted regarding those dreaded consumers of our zooanthids, yes....Nudibranchs. Knowing the destruction and devastation they can cause, and remembering the damaged they caused in my own system on two separate occasions, I could only hope that someday there would be a cure, a predator, something, anything. I had lost my Honey Mustard zoos which were my favorites, and all I could do was watch and hope. The Dip has indeed worked wonders, but it isn't fool-proof. It is a definite proactive means of prevention, as well as a reactionary method of removing them, yet it requires an awful lot of time if you have a substantial number of colonies.


Knowing that I had no chance of finding a way to truly eradicate nudibranch since it is not my field of study. I have no formal training in anyway in the field of Marine Biology or the like. I'm just a reefer like each of you who loves Zooanthids. I knew there was a way, there had to be. There was no known predator, no chemical, nothing. I had experimented with a few things which I don't want to mention, but each of them failed. That's when I set my sight on a potential predator. If there was one, I knew in my heart that it had to be a Wrasse.

For several weeks, I begin to read up on them. I started visiting as many stores as I could to watch their behavior. Some were constant swimmers, some were stalkers and some would just hide. Then it hit me, I remembered purchasing a Dragon Wrasse several years ago. I remembered how it would perch and watch from the top of the reef for anything that moved. It was at this time that I began to purchase only the Wrasses that would hover and stalk as the Dragon Wrasse did. I'd purchased one at a time and placed them in a 20 gallon system that I had set up to see how they would react to Nudibranchs. Knowing that I had nothing but time, and a local supplier of as many nudibranchs as I wanted, the search was on. I lost count, but I think it was after the 5 wrasse that I came across what I considered to be the most beautiful fish that I had ever seen. It was an electric neon kiwi green colored wrasse. My first thought was that it was a Green Coris, but it couldn't be. The color was far more intense then that of the Coris, and it had distinct markings which a Coris doesn't have. But there was more, I watched it for almost a full hour. I had never witness, heard or read of such behavior. This fish would hover almost motionless, it remined me of a Pointer ( you know, the dog that runs ahead of a hunter and stops and points when it senses a bird in a bush. ) The fish seldom swam, it merely hovered and perched. I knew it was one that I had to buy, bring home and see.

Measuring just under 3 inches in lenght, I placed it in the 20 gallon test tank. I gave it some time to acclimate and adjust to its new enviroment as I did with the others. Making sure that I introduce no food into this system, I place a 3 x 4 inch rock into the tank. He swam around the rock a few times and to my surprise, and I never expected to see this in a million years, but he locked on to the rock from just 2 inches away. Almost completely verticle, he saw something move. I counted at least 7 nudis before introducing him and I was sure he saw a pod or something moving about the rock, and then it happened, he made a sudden thrust at the rock between several polyps and quickly backed away. I didn't see what it was, but I know he had eaten something. He began to slowly cover the entire rock, row by row, searching for that which he had just consumed. As he made his way to the front of the tank, as I stood at least 4 feet away, he made a sudden thrust again. Still too far away, as I didn't want to startle him, I turned all of the house lights off and moved in within inches of the front glass. I could clearly see an adult nudibranch on the front side of the rock and so could he. That's when it happened again, and this time I had a front row seat. I felt a sudden rush inside as my jaw dropped in shear and total disbelief, I had just witnessed a wrasse consuming a nudibranch. Within 3 minutes, the rock was cleaned of all nudis. I removed the rock and placed it in a dip for a full 5 minutes. Upon removal, there wasn't a single nudi in the bottom of the bowl. That's when I caught a knot in my stomach and started laughing. I had to laugh, this had to be a fluke, it had to be.


After collecting my thoughts I said to myself, ok, but can he do it again. Maybe he didn't realize what he ate, maybe I didn't really see what I saw. So I placed a second rock with nudis into the tank, and it happened again. " Well slap me around and call me Susan", this fish is crazy. I wanted to tell someone, but who would believe me. Would I dare come to RC and say that I have a predator that eats Nudibranchs, come on. Besides, there were still a few egg sacks on a couple of the polyps. Wanting to be doubly sure, three days later, I placed the fish in my sump. Being extra careful with this fish, I made sure that everything was identical. I'd use substrate and water from my main system with the 20 gallon therefore the parameters in the sump would be identical. I placed the fish in first and then another rock infested with Nudis. You guessed it, the results were the same.

Still shaking in disbelief, I went to RC, I wanted to post what had happened twice right before my eyes, but how could I. No one would believe a single word of it. I began to read of the many stories of how they were slowly destroying many of your prized collections. That's when I posted the thread below. I knew there was hope and I couldn't contain it any longer.

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=514048

Ok, it has happened twice, but I had to be sure. Just because it happened twice, does that make it fact. How many tanks do I have to set up to be sure? So I set up another tank, this time I placed the nudi filled rocks in the system and I allowed them to multiply for about 2 weeks. I knew that I had more than one type of Nudi in this batch of rocks from the shape of their bodies, some short and fat, some long and skinny. Heck, I couldn't even identify them by name, but I knew I had them. Finally the day had come, this fish is very easy to net, I often work in my tank and as long as I don't make any sudden quick movements, he won't dart away. I placed him in the third system and he didn't touch a thing. He didn't even venture near them and I couldn't figure out why. After 10 minutes or so, he locked on something on the rock like a heat seeking missle. Before I knew it, it was dinner time and he began to hover and stalk every single zoo in the tank. This time I placed actinics over the tank to see if he would only eat them during the daylight. "Mikey", that's what I call him because he will eat anything, was now considered a predator for nudis and he was in my tank. But again, who would believe me.


Then the bad news, or as I thought it was, the wrasse began to morph. It changed from a stunning neon lime, to a very dark almost black color. Using my flashlight, I could see that the new color was a very deep dark Evergreen color. My assumption was that he'd consumed so much toxins that it caused a color shift. Or, this was his adult coloration. He was still healthy and showed signs of growth as well.

How could I post these results, again, sure it happened on a small scale with just a few colonies, but if this was the real deal, the predator we have all hoped for, THE TERMINATOR, then I had to have more proof, but who could I tell and what else could I do. I told a friend about it and I told him what I was going to do, he said I was crazy. I decided to infect my own system. If I couldn't eradicate a full tank loaded with nudis, then how could I tell any of you that it would work on your system. At least I knew that I had defeated them twice before with nightime plucking and dipping over a 30 day period. I counted my zoos, I added up the cost, some I knew I could never replace, and yes, I was a fool for doing it, but I knew this fish was the real thing. I added a few rocks that I had purchased and placed them along the front of my tank. I waited 10 days, I could have waited longer, but by now many of you knew that I had something brewing from my post. I have several thousand dollars worth of zoos and coral in my tank. I assigned a value of at least $ 30 to each coral, knowing many of them cost me a lot more than that. Then I began to notice many of my colonies retracting. Now was the time, I took Mikey and placed him in my main system. Immediately after acclimation, we went on a stalking rampage for 13 days. It was at that time that every single colony was once again fully expanding. I even dipped a few rocks to see if I could find a nudi and I found nothing. He consumed the adults and juvis first, then he waited until the newly hatched sacks presented him with another meal. I never saw him eat the eggs sacks, but the system was restored and back to what it once was. To this day, I have not lost a single polyp and I continue to dip periodically and I can't find a single nudi. I had my proof and I wanted to share it because i just couldn't keep it to myself any longer.

Not wanting to stop now, was it possible that he would consume Monti Nudis as well. I recieved a small frag just this morning with a few Monti Nudis on them. I had never seen them since I am not an SPS reefer, but in they went to the 20 gallon tank. It was only a 3 inch frag and yes, Mikey mowed them down. There were only a few and it was quicker than with the zoos, my assumption was that they were more visable. This fish is unlike anything I have ever witnessed in my life. He seldom swims, he simply glides in the current until he sees something moving. I have witnessed him stalking every single colony in my tank, inch by inch until he finds something to consume.

So what's the name of this Fish?

http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/526/3003DSC04432.jpg

(pictured again, the SAME fish, mimicing a Wasp Fish)

http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/526/3003DSC04471.jpg

I spent several days looking through every book I could find to ID this wrasse. It wasn't until I stopped by Border's book store that I found something that looked a lot like Mikey. Using my magnifying glass, I came across the Sea Grass Wrasse. It was close, but I wasn't convinced. That's when Nagel, ( one of the Zooanthid forum Mods) came to my rescue. His assitance and direction was the key in helping ID Mikey. He had the contacts and the connections that I needed. I had waited on some other contacts to come through for me, but they didn't. Nagel's timing was perfect and I want to thank him publicly for his intervention. Nagel forwarded the pics to Dr. John Randall, the man who recently re-classified the species, Dr. Randall positively ID this fish. To my surprise, it was indeed the Sea Grass Wrasse ( Novaculichthys Macrolepidotus ). I had viewed the more common (Halichorus Papilonaceus ). The Novaculichthys, according to Dr. Randall, is a more recently described species. I want to take a moment to also thank Dr. John Randall and Mr. Anthony Calfo for their assitance and professional opinion. It appears that this fish is not rare and yet commonly found in the wild, just seldom collected for resale.

Now the downside, I had at least 50 new baby snails that would migrate to the front glass every night. He ate every single one of them. He also killed every single copepod in my tank and a few small crabs, but my corals are all healthy and vibrantly expanding.


There is one major caveat to all of this. It is very possible that this particular Sea Grass Wrasses wil consume nudis, and others like it won't. Yes, it is highly possible. Mr. Calfo has suggested this and I agree completely. However, I refuse to believe that I am that lucky, I mean truly lucky enough to have the one Novaculichthys Macrolepidotus that will consume nudis. I don't believe that for a minute, it was a hunch and just dumb luck to find this. In my heart, I believe that this is the FISH people. I am in the process of securing 2 more of them with hopes of proving that theory. That is where each of you can help. This is our discovery, and you can play a vital role in this by finding this fish and doing the exact same thing. Please post your results to confirm that Mikey has relatives.

Sorry for the delay in posting this, but I wanted to be sure. Again, I want to thank Nagel, Mr. Schultz, Dr. Randall and Mr. Calfo for their assistance.

Safe reefing everyone.

Mucho

dmorel
02/20/2005, 10:15 PM
Fantastic Post...

I guess the rush is on for the Sea Grass Wrasse.

Anyone know a good retailer who will have these? Like to order mine before the price goes through the roof ;)

Mucho, thanks for the hard work, be happy to report my findings if I can get my hands on one.
-dm

Dwarfpufferfish
02/20/2005, 10:20 PM
I will also be searching for the Novaculichthys Macrolepidotus. I have not had any luck finding them online yet!

bkiba
02/20/2005, 10:21 PM
great study mucho, hopefully this works for the rest of us.

keep up the struggle :thumbsup:

is this the little guy?

http://www.wetwebmedia.com/WrassePix/Chelio/Chelio_inermisGIL.jpg

or is it this guy?

http://fishdb.sinica.edu.tw/2001new/spe_picture/dpi600/a762-06.jpg

http://fishdb.sinica.edu.tw/2001new/english/efishpic.asp?gen=Novaculichthys&spe=macrolepidotus

dmorel
02/20/2005, 10:22 PM
hehe, and the race is on ;)

I already dropped a note to a buddy who works at an LFS, hopefully he can get one ordered in for me. I didn't find any at the usual online places...

-dm

SuperFishy
02/20/2005, 10:23 PM
first off.
THANKS to Mucho for taking the time and devotion to go through this ordeal, putting your own tank and its inhabitants under the danger of these little devils just to help out other reefers is a great contribution.
thank you.
ill be lookin for this wrasse too.

shilo_1
02/20/2005, 10:26 PM
Awesome - thank you so much Mucho !
I found this....this is the guy...right ?
http://64.95.130.5/summary/SpeciesSummary.cfm?id=5609

SuperFishy
02/20/2005, 10:33 PM
or this guy
http://photos.fishindex.com/nov/novaculichthys_macrolepidotus32896.jpg

whodah
02/20/2005, 10:35 PM
thx for the post mucho!

do u have shrimp in your tank w/ him?

jcigars
02/20/2005, 10:44 PM
Mucho....dude your my idol :) I guess I can get my turkey baster surgicaly removed from my hand now ;)

Jimmy

mfinn
02/20/2005, 10:56 PM
Originally posted by SuperFishy
first off.
THANKS to Mucho for taking the time and devotion to go through this ordeal, putting your own tank and its inhabitants under the danger of these little devils just to help out other reefers is a great contribution.
thank you.

I couldn't say it any better
Thanks

jcigars
02/20/2005, 11:07 PM
Here he is "Mikey" :) (Mucho asked me to upload this for him)

I'm going to call him Mucho's Miracle :D

http://www.jimmysreef.com/modules/coppermine/albums/userpics/10004/mikey.JPG

Milhouse
02/20/2005, 11:39 PM
Thank you for posting this, I do appreciate it. But there was one thing that kept flashing through my mind the whole time...."This is it?". I mean, I guess I figured if it was going to be a fish, that the reason it took so long for the results was you were trying with more than one fish. I appreciate the time and effort, and this could very well be "the cure", but as of right now, it's really just speculation. For example, if I run up to my tank right now and drop some flake food in and one of my fish eats it, and the other doesn't I'm not going to claim he's a flake predator now am I? LOL I'd like to see more results from other reefers(which is what I thought we were waiting on) before I try to seek out one of these guys.

rozli
02/21/2005, 12:12 AM
Thanks Mucho,
Hope that it work in tank. By the way, do the wrasse eat small acro crabs and shrimp, wonder whether it will eat them?
High Five to Mucho!!!!!!!!!!!

sylphid
02/21/2005, 03:55 AM
Pictures available for Novaculichthys macrolepidotus
http://64.95.130.5/Photos/ThumbnailsSummary.cfm?ID=5609

A slender species, usually bright green. Juveniles vary from brown to green
http://64.95.130.5/summary/SpeciesSummary.cfm?id=5609

wady
02/21/2005, 07:39 AM
Thanks MUCHO for your keen and dedicated work. RESPECT!!!!

Here is another link with info on this fish;

http://www.saltcorner.com/sections/zoo/1024frameset.htm

I have a question should anyone have any advise. I note MUCHOs advise that this fish also eats pods as well. I have a well established Mandirin Dragonet in my tank. He's been in for well over a year and seems to get enough food (pods) with no problems. This is the only thing he eats as far as I can tell. I also have a sixline Wrasse that eats everything I put into the tank. I know they can also eat Pods too and assume he does. He has been in for a good 6 months and I added him to help with a flat worm out-break. This he sorted out for me. I know if I were to add this new Sea Grass Wrasse I would have to re-home the six-line, but think it would be well worth the swap. Do you think this Sea Grass Wrasse would effect the pod population anymore than my sixline does? Don't want to starve my Mandarin. I realise that answering this at this stage might be difficult but opinions would be welcome.

Good luck everyone on the experiment and hunt for this new and exciting development.

Thanks again to MUCHO!

aidyb

trueblackpercula
02/21/2005, 09:40 AM
now thats a post :) great work and thanks for all the time and dedication you have spent on this. My your zoanthids blossom with MIKEY.

luceneck
02/21/2005, 09:51 AM
Mucho, what a great find. I am now wondering if my leopard wrasse may have the same abilities. I have never had any nudis in my system, but I only have a few zoas as well.


Wady I sent you a PM so as to keep this thread on topic.

sarduci
02/21/2005, 10:50 AM
Hey, good work Mucho!

According to the link that wady has, it's not an overly friendly fish to other fish and can be very aggressive.

downset
02/21/2005, 11:09 AM
Wow this is going to be the thread of the month
Great work :D

DashHills
02/21/2005, 12:37 PM
Thanks MUCHO for being so detailed and taking the time to repeatedly check Mikey out. I may want to rent him, if something goes wrong in my tank.

bobafett
02/21/2005, 01:34 PM
Thanks for the post. I think I eradicated all the nudis in my tank already but I'll throw one of those fish in just so I can sleep better at night. I know all too well what its like loosing your prized colony.

Jovreefer
02/21/2005, 02:59 PM
HAHAHA...MUCHO you should definatly rent out "mikey" I bet he would get more an hour than most of us get at work!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

ITR
02/21/2005, 03:03 PM
This is great information.

I like many others have a few questions on the above mentioned Sea Grass Wrasse. It seems that many who are reading this are finding out about him for the first time, so I doubt there is much personal first hand knowledge about them yet, but if anyone does have some info, please feel free to chime in.

1. Mucho mentioned that he does not have SPS. I would like to know if this wrasse is going to be SPS safe or are my acros in jeopordy.

2. I too am also concerned about the pod population. I have a 240g that I would like to add a Mandarin Dragonet to. That being said, I wouldn't want to starve the poor fellow.

3. It was mentioned that this wrasse may be aggressive. I also would like to know if there are any inhabitants that are not compatible with this wrasse.

I know the answers to my questions are not simple as there are so many variables that can affect the outcome, but when someone has experience with this Sea Grass Wrasse, please comment on these if possible.

Nice discovery Mucho Reef. I sense some legendary status occuring if this turns out to be what it looks like it could be.

Regards,
Jay

usagolf
02/21/2005, 04:34 PM
Great post. Thanks for taking all the time and effort doing the research.

geoxman
02/21/2005, 05:17 PM
Where can you buy one??

Lutefisk
02/21/2005, 05:34 PM
I had one for about a year (carpet surfing) that I purchased at a LFS who didn't know what it was (and neither did I).

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=180940

That was the only time I had seend one.

sharks
02/21/2005, 05:37 PM
WOW that is great news.

Originally posted by MUCHO REEF
Again, I want to thank Nagel, Mr. Schultz, Dr. Randall and Mr. Calfo for their assistance.

Safe reefing everyone.

Mucho

Thanks to all of you! :beer:
While I don’t have any problems with nudi’s now I’m always paranoid about new frags.
Great job :thumbsup:

Wildcatt88
02/21/2005, 06:40 PM
Very cool Mucho!

FishyinKY
02/21/2005, 06:43 PM
Mucho this is great news. Thanks so much for sharing with us.

northbay-reefer
02/21/2005, 08:32 PM
MUCHO Gracias :) for all the work that you have done, I do have a nudis problem but I think I iradicated it with your previous freshwater dip method, now with this wrase, their is a cure ... YOU the MAN ... thanks again, I will find one of those wrase and will report back any new finding

MUCHO REEF
02/21/2005, 08:50 PM
This fish has yet to show any aggressive behavior in my tank. I have 2 medium size tangs, a large Lawnmower Blenny and a 3 inch Springers Dottyback, all are doing great.

I have a Coral Bandit shrimp and a few peppermints and all of them are doing great with this fish as well.

This fish is not hard to find, I received an email just this morning regarding them from a friend. A simple request to your LFS will produce this fish sooner than you think.

I am looking to acquire two more of them in just a few days. I will attempt to reproduce the same results as above. I still believe that the Sea Grass is the hunter we have all been waiting for. If I'm 200 % wrong, which I doubt, well, at least we gave it a shot. I only know that he has eaten every single nudi that has been placed before him, and that is promising news I think.

Thanks to all of you for the positive feedback.

Millhouse, all I can say is that I tried. I made it clear that their was a great possibilty that another SG Wrasse might not produce the same results. I also stated that I refuse to believe that I am that lucky to have the only one that will consume nudis. Again I mentioned that it was pure luck that I stumbled upon this and that each of you would play a vital role in purchasing a SG wrasse with hopes of attaining the same results. I wouldn't call it speculation, I would say that it is highly possible that this fish is a predator. That can only be proven by those of use who can find this fish and place them in a tank infested with Nudis. If I stand alone, then I guess I have to, but I still believe.

Mucho

Glindac
02/21/2005, 08:53 PM
You continue to amaze me..
First to wait and grow that flower and now the fish.
You are something else Mucho :)
Thanks for the results....

maryrosi
02/21/2005, 09:47 PM
Exactly what Glindac said! :) Thanks for taking the time to document all this info and share.

golf nut
02/21/2005, 10:57 PM
Great post!

Thanx for sharing.



Paul

njmar1
02/21/2005, 11:18 PM
Very cool, just what we needed- a nudi killer!

John Brancheau
02/22/2005, 07:21 PM
Nice work there Much,

Glad to have ya doing the research for us........

If you are correct about the bugs, you may have a reefers medal of honor coming your way...........


John

rozli
02/22/2005, 07:40 PM
Will the wrasse kill acro crab or other small shrimp?. I'm worry if they will attack my acro crab, got alot of it in my current tank.
Already bought the wrasse last night, still in my sump and dare not to in my display tank.

sgolden
02/23/2005, 01:52 AM
does he eat any snails anymore???the one i had ate every nassarius snail i had...he stalk them and grab em by their antenna/proboscis/snoodle thing and thrash em around ....he was a lovely fish but i neeed my snails.....but kudos for all your work and info....thanx....

GreshamH
02/23/2005, 04:57 AM
Until now there hasn't been much of a cry for these common Sea Grass Wrasse. We see them quite frequently in imports, usually they are mixed w/ the green coris. I've requested my exporter to step up collections of these, they're shipping us a bunch next week.

FWIW, my possum wrasse has been consuming my nudi's, but just enough to keep the numbers really low. I'll give the sea grass wrasse a whirl and see what it can do.

Thanks for taking the time to do this Mucho!

Milhouse
02/23/2005, 10:46 AM
"FWIW, my possum wrasse has been consuming my nudi's, but just enough to keep the numbers really low. I'll give the sea grass wrasse a whirl and see what it can do."


So which is it? The possum wrasse or the seagrass wrasse is the great nudi hunter? Exactly! LOL This is the reason while I'll wait to see if more people can have the same success. I don't want to loose the great little four line wrasse I have in there now.....along with all of my snails. I'm not trying to rain on anyones parade, but I think people shouldn't just jump the gun because of what happened with one wrasse.

mfinn
02/23/2005, 12:06 PM
Milhouse,
MUCHO has taken alot of time and effort to help all of us find a cure for the nudibranch problem. He did say that the rest of us need to contribe our experiences.
So why don't you get off your a** , quit whinning and help.
GreshamH has pointed out another fish that may help with the problem.
If you have something better, lets hear it.

Broodingwolf
02/23/2005, 01:17 PM
I don't think anyone is jumping the gun, Mucho said check out what I am doing, please if you have nudi's in your tank, give this a try and see if it was just a total fluke, or if we have a species that can help us kill off this pest. If you are worried about your snails, don't get the fish. This is akin to going oh no what about my softy corals, when someone says a CBB might help with the aipstasia infestation. To me, the loss of snails versus the loss of beautiful zoos seems like a pretty fair tradeoff!

GreshamH
02/23/2005, 02:00 PM
Yah, a few snails, or your pretty zoa's, I say let em eat snails :D

I don't think the possum will help as good as the Sea Grass Wrasse. The possum gets a few, but he hunts pods mainly. The Sea Grass Wrasse lives in an environment that has tons of different nudi's/slugs for it to feed on. It makes total sense just looking at it's habitat that it'll do a better job. The Sea Grass Wrasse also goes by Green Dragon Wrasse for those whom aren't having any luck finding the Sea Grass Wrasse.

Milhouse
02/23/2005, 05:18 PM
Woah, woah, woah. Some of you need to stop getting your panties in a bunch(Mfinn). You guys can do whatever you want, I couldn't care less. I'm just saying that I hope a lot of people don't run out and risk everything trying to get one of these. Especially since there will certainly be a lot of "enterprising" people upping the price if they see the demand go up. Is this a cure? Nope, not right now. Who knows if anyone can reproduce these results. Could it be? Sure as hell could. But my point is I'm not going to run out to try it, lol. A lot of people have had luck with certain scooter blennies eating flatworms. But if I get flatworms in my tank, I'm not going to run out and get one and just hope it works. I'm not going to give up the idea of having snails in my tank, or have to get rid of a wrasse I have in there now. If you guys want to do it, go for it. Just because I don't see this as the second coming of Christ doesn't mean I don't appreciate him posting this. I do appreciate it. I just wish it had been something other than a fish :)

"So why don't you get off your a** , quit whinning and help."

Grow up! I'm not whining at all. Take care :)

DEEC77
02/24/2005, 01:11 PM
Hey Mucho-

Thanks for you continued effort to help with the problems that affect our zoo tanks and sharing your findings - There are quite a few of us that appreciate the time and effort you put into this hobby. Please keep us informed so we can also make informed decisions based on your findings.

Thanks again Dee

yoshiod9
02/24/2005, 01:40 PM
soooooooooooo, since i'm too lazy to google this wrasse....how large do they get? i've got nano's and since gresham said they're called 'green dragon wrasses' as well, i have the feeling that they get large. mmm....help please? :D

GreshamH
02/24/2005, 04:06 PM
Originally posted by yoshiod9
soooooooooooo, since i'm too lazy to google this wrasse....how large do they get? i've got nano's and since gresham said they're called 'green dragon wrasses' as well, i have the feeling that they get large. mmm....help please? :D

15.0 cm TL (male/unsexed; Ref. 9710) according to www.fishbase.org

http://fishbase.org/Summary/SpeciesSummary.cfm?ID=5609&genusname=Novaculichthys&speciesname=macrolepidotus

MUCHO REEF
02/24/2005, 05:38 PM
***Update***

As I stated in the above thread, this fish is readily available, it's not a rare fish at all. Simply make a request through your LFS. I will have 3 more by this weekend and I will put them through thier paces as I did with Mikey.

Has anyone purchsed one this week? If so, did you have the same results? I really would like to know ASAP. I only had a small frag with the Monti. Nudis and those are of a great concern to me. Waiting to hear from each of you, good luck.

Mucho

PS. I noticed now that he is darting down in between rocks looking for something, can't really see what. Since I no longer have nudis, and every single polyp in my tank is fully expanded, I'm assuming it's for more food. Also, there is one spot, at sand level, that he keeps burrowing into. Whenever I cover it up, he goes back to that one spot to burrow a single hole the diameter of a quarter. BTW, I have tried several foods, flake, frozen etc and he consumes them all.

yoshiod9
02/24/2005, 06:21 PM
awesome, thanks gresham(though you made me lose my laziness and find out how large 15cm is...it's just under 6 six inches! awesome...it can fit in a nano....but i figure i would have to trade him out after a bit.

mathwick
02/25/2005, 11:16 PM
AMAZING THREAD

Broodingwolf
02/28/2005, 06:06 PM
Anyone else picked up these fish yet? I'm eager to learn more, anyone know if that lovely brilliant green coloring is temporary or not?

This may just be my QT tank/frag growout tank permanent resident hehe

mfinn
02/28/2005, 06:26 PM
A store in my area found two of them. However they were alot bigger than what I wanted. They were 6" plus. But they were nearly identical to this picture. They said they would look for smaller ones.

http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/500/11798wrasse_2.jpg

NYSharkLady
03/03/2005, 07:41 AM
This thread is a life saver! I just picked off about 10 nudi's in the past 2 nights from my clove polyps and toadstool. They really worm their way into the cloves at night. What a pain! I'm going to have to take a look at my LFS today and see if they have one of these cool guys. Thanks Mucho!!!!!!!!

Thurge
03/03/2005, 08:07 AM
It seems that it would be much easier to replace my shirmp and Nassarius than dip EVERYTHING in my tank, and possibly still not get rid of them. I discovered Monti. munchers about two months ago, and while I HOPE that sucking them up with a pippet and brushing the eggs off has done the trick eradicating them, I am definatley going to find one of these fish.
With & shrimp and Fairy wrasses, I should be a good case study in aggression.

And MUCHO, thanks for posing your findings.

northbay-reefer
03/08/2005, 03:48 PM
I've asked my lfs to get me one of these fish so hopefully soon I'll be able to report back

Marc Daniels
03/09/2005, 04:11 PM
I was able to find one here in Sacramento at O Street Aquarium that is identical to Mucho's wrasse. It was priced at $19.99, and I have it in a quarantine tank. I don't have any monti nudi problems, but I plan on adding the wrasse to my new 300 once I start adding livestock in another month or so.

Marc

Creetin
03/15/2005, 08:53 AM
Well i have no doubt that a fish would be a predator of nudi's. All i heard that they were too leathel to eat. LOL! (Which i think is pretty funny since i am not dead yet.) I am waiting to see results as well. I wanted to thank mucho for posting his findings, he could have easily just kept it to himself.
I didnt hear anybody claim it was the second coming of christ, But i have never had a problem with nudi's, and the need for this fish right now for me is not there. A good quarentine is the best friend your reef could have.

MERCEDES
03/17/2005, 11:44 PM
Ooooooooohhhhhh Thank you MUCHO! You have given me the best B-day present now I just need to get my hands on one. My poor prized collection of zoanthids has been terribly trashed by these da@* nudis and I have been dipping and I too have a freakin turkey baster surgically attached to my hand and feel as though I am getting nowhere. I have been close to throwing in the towel and giving up my tank it has been so frustrating. I will try to get a wrasse asap, just pulled out 6 nudi's from a 3 inch rock last night. I will post my progress so we can truly see if this will work for everyone I am desperate to get rid of these bast%$#@! Thank you again for all of your hard work and very honest and clear posts with great information.:thumbsup:

dmorel
03/18/2005, 10:51 AM
So has anyone found one of these fish from an online vendor?

I appear to be NF (nudi free) at the moment after a two week move of all my zoa's to a QT tank with every other day dips and plucks of egg sacks, but I still would like to have one of these fish in the future and have had no luck securing one locally.
thanks,
-dm

rx2006je
03/19/2005, 04:33 PM
please post if anyone finds an online vendor can't find one yet

yoshiod9
03/19/2005, 04:54 PM
marc i totally saw that wrasse but i thought he looked a bit sickly so i didn't buy him. hopefully he does well! let us know! (mars and here!) :D
danny

Marc Daniels
03/19/2005, 05:01 PM
Danny-

The wrasse is doing great! We're at 10 days and it is active and eating well. But, the little $%$&^&* is making a sandstorm of the new 300. There is very little rock and it is only doing what comes naturally. If you are looking for one I might be inclined to loan him out until I get the 300 established.

I might even be more inclined to make a trade for him...let me know if you're intrested (or anyone else for that matter).

Marc

northbay-reefer
03/24/2005, 06:11 PM
Mucho, question for ya, do you have any clams in your tank ? if yes did the wrasse bother it ? I have been checking around because I still want to get one of these wrasses but some of the LFS are warning me about this particular wrass have a tendency to damage clams and that is why am hessitating since I have a large tank with lots of prize clams.

MUCHO REEF
03/24/2005, 06:24 PM
Hello Northbay, unfortunately I don't have any clams so I can't honestly comment on that issue one way or the other. I have never heard of this happening but that doesn't mean that it won't. I certainly would not trust the fish with your clams. I guess with this fish, there is a trade off. You would have to weigh the pros and cons of using it to rid your tank of nudis. Is it possible to remove the clams until the wrasse wipes out the nudis? I would really consider it. If you were local, I would let you store them here.

Mikey is doing great, but he has no nudis to eat and I have been trying like crazy to find more nudis to finish testing my other wrasses. My LFS has had two shipments in so far and they are a hot seller.

Please keep us posted on whatever you choose to do.

Good luck my friend.

Mucho

northbay-reefer
03/25/2005, 10:40 AM
Mucho thanks, yes am still seriously consider trying out the wrasse, but since I have lots of clams I will have to set up a quaranteen tank and test him with a cheap clam and see what happen.

In the mean time am in the process of trying out interceptor in the quaranteen tank for my Acroporas red bug problem, so the zoos will have to wait couple weeks, for right now my zoos are doing fine and I haven't seen any sign of nudis since using your dip method couple of times.

Will keep you posted.

dmorel
03/25/2005, 10:48 AM
Asking again...
Has anyone found an online retailer (or anyone willing to ship) one of these wrasses? I have been unable to get one locally.

thanks,
-dm

Speckled Grouper
03/25/2005, 06:44 PM
None in South Florida either....

MUCHO REEF
03/25/2005, 09:22 PM
I'm working on it.

MR

ab5ebdxer
03/28/2005, 10:32 AM
It sounds like some of these might not be the most reef friendly fish. However if it does pan out then this would be a great fish to put in a prop tank with zoanthids in it. I have a pseudochromis now in my prop tank to keep the pods in control, if other people have the same success then he might get kicked out.

Stubing
04/01/2005, 02:44 PM
I just submitted the following request for the "sea grass wrasse" at Drs. Foster and Smith. Maybe if a lot of people do the same they will consider stocking this fish. The form I used to submit the request can be found here (http://www.drsfostersmith.com/general.cfm?gid=314&ref=3415&subref=AI).

Dear Stubing,

Thank you for your inquiry.

We have forwarded your request to our aquatic management for review. We do appreciate your input.

If we can be of any additional assistance, feel free to contact our Technical Support Department at 1-800-562.7169 or via email at TechSupport@drsfostersmith.com and we will be happy to answer any question(s) you may have.

Sincerely,

Drs Foster & Smith
Technical Support

We hope that you find this information beneficial. We employ some of the best people in the industry and want to be your source for all of your aquatic needs.
Drs. Foster & Smith


At 04:05 PM 3/29/2005 -0600, you wrote:


From: Stubing
Email: xxxxxxxx@yahoo.com

Comments:
I would like to see you guys start stocking a fish known as a "Sea Grass Wrasse". We zoanthid lovers are searching desperately for a natural predator of the zoo eating nudi, and this thread at Reef Central has given us some hope:

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=533167

If you can get just one order of them, I guarentee they will all be sold. There are tons of us waiting to do our own independent testing with this fish if we can find it. Is this possible? Thanks!


Cheers, :D

-Stubing

Funky_Fish14
04/10/2005, 03:29 PM
Anyone having sucess yet? Mucho, how is it going with the new fish?

And Mucho, Thank-you very much for having taken the time and large risk of testing this possibility!

Chris

mummra100769
04/13/2005, 06:28 PM
i found one today going to put it in quarantine till it eats and we will hope for the best. thanx mucho

Speckled Grouper
04/13/2005, 07:09 PM
Me too, my beloved LFS told me they got 5 in, 2 of them where DOA but one is waiting for me. I am excited!

rahre1
04/19/2005, 02:19 PM
Hope this works, my last dip with Lugols at 3X the dose did not kill them - back eating my zoos in less than 12 hours - the dip was even done in COLD fresh water. I dip the rock and all, have starboard bottom. YIKES. People, please post when you find a willing supplier.

shilo_1
04/19/2005, 02:30 PM
Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think the Lugols is for the nudis...its for the zoas (sort of like putting neosporin on a cut on your finger....)
The FW is what kills the nudis. You could be having problems since the FW does not kill the eggs. You have to pick those off with tweezers. If you don't they will just hatch out and lay more eggs, etc. continuing the cycle...


Originally posted by rahre1
Hope this works, my last dip with Lugols at 3X the dose did not kill them - back eating my zoos in less than 12 hours - the dip was even done in COLD fresh water. I dip the rock and all, have starboard bottom. YIKES. People, please post when you find a willing supplier.

Kennetht
04/21/2005, 05:37 AM
I think that I am going to try this wrasse in my girlfriend's tank. She has a 65G with around 16 different species of Zoos and we just found a nudi yesterday. She has a Fire Shrimp, 6 chromis, and 3 firefish...I'll let you know how it goes.

David4039
04/21/2005, 11:20 AM
Question?? Does he stalk your clean up crew? Crabs, snails, starfish? Also, will he eat anything else once the nudi's are gone? BTW this is a GREAT find and I can't tell you how much myself and countless others appreciate it. Thanks!

David4039

dmorel
04/21/2005, 11:31 AM
STILL Looking for one of these babies....
Anyone have any luck finding one online?
Anyone want to ship one they have?

thanks,
-dm

David4039
04/21/2005, 11:50 AM
same here, can't seem to find anyone that carries them.

Speckled Grouper
04/21/2005, 06:34 PM
I got mine last Saturday. He is a very cool looking fish, weird as hell though. He always has his head down scanning the bottom, turning over rocks (small ones) and picking stuff off the bottom, he has thrown some smaller zoo rocks over and buried some others with sand. Can't say I like that since I have to clean up after him, but it's not that bad. I have not, per say, seen him eat a nudi, but I have not seen any either.
He eats live brine, frozen mysis and bloodworms.
Tonight he let the cleaner wrasse (about 1/8 of his size) clean him.
My LFS got him in for me, they have 2 or 3 more, you could give them a call and see if they will ship.

reefkeeper59
04/22/2005, 03:20 AM
I saw this thread and thought, this sounds to geed to be true.

I spent 4 hours trying to find this fish online with no luck. May take forever to find it.

I walk in Trident Pet in Plam Bay Florida and there one swims in a tank. $30 and he's mine.

He looked a little thin. Figure he prob hasn't eatin much during transfer. I put him in one of my refuge with sand only and red grassalaria (spelling,duh). There must be a ton of copopods in that grass and on sand. I let him get comfortable. I come back hour later. He looks like he swallowed a marble. This guy ate every pod I had. Then he takes a dump 30 minutes later and is thin again. What a stomach this guy has. He looked like a barracuda attacking those pods.

I'm excited. I turned my 120 gal tank light out and wait for the zoo's to close up. Finally, I find two frags with one nudi each.

I drop the first frag in refug. He's looks at nudi and swims away. I'm thinking he's already eatin, be patient. Then a pod runs accross the take and the mini barracuda strike again. Lightning fast. Ok

I take the nudi off the rock and attemp to put on glass. It gets loose in current. He looks at it and swims away. HMMMM It gets lost.

Took the second frag and removed nudi, stuck on glass right in front of wrasse. He looks and looks and and and. Two hours later he still looks at it and swims away. I take the nudi off glass and shake it off finger in water column. He looks like he's gonna take my finger off. He's see this nudi and he go's for it,yes.

Then he spits it out. Damn.

Wasted $25 of a wrasse I don't want know and all my pods are gone. Back to dipping. Anybody want a wrasse/barracuda that will devoure your pod population in minutes.
http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/567/54040DSC_9530.JPG

mummra100769
04/22/2005, 09:21 AM
well i found one and it has been in my tank for a week. nudis are very hard to find now and he is hunting among the polyps all the time. mine will eat mysis,krill,cyclop-eeze and new life pellets.

it might be to early to tell but short term it sure does look like he is doing the job. big thanx to mucho.

i am going to try the same experiment as above.

Lutefisk
04/22/2005, 11:21 AM
Originally posted by reefkeeper59

...

I walk in Trident Pet in Plam Bay Florida and there one swims in a tank. $30 and he's mine.

...



That's one of the things I like about Trident Pets. I don't get there often but they always seem to have something that no one else carries.

Paul

trueblackpercula
04/22/2005, 06:07 PM
i have seen them come in at a place in brooklyn. try and give them a call i think they are brooklyn aquarium.

Speckled Grouper
04/22/2005, 06:52 PM
Mini barracuda is a VERY good description....
My dream of a Mandarin is fading...quickly....

cheryld1974
04/22/2005, 09:25 PM
Just wanted to let everyone know...a couple months ago, before I had read this post, I had the same luck with a wrasse--but not this kind. The wrasse I had was a Lyretail (Thalassoma lunare). Upon seeing this post, I just thought I would let everyone know that others will work, also!

Kennetht
04/23/2005, 11:18 AM
Well......we got the wrasse yesterday. My LFS calls it a Green Razor Wrasse. So farr all it has done is stay in the back right corned and swim up and down the wall. It hasn't ate anything as far as I can tell. We fed the tank yesterday and it just kept swimming. I'll keep you posted.

The Shrimp X
04/23/2005, 12:58 PM
ok now my question, the wrasse mucho got turned black. BUt all the wrasses that everyone else has gotten has not, and in all the places onlin that i looked for pick never showed a black one so maybe there are 2 similar species? One that eats them and morphs into a black color and one that stays green and like pods?

ZoMania
04/24/2005, 04:33 PM
Before everyone goes Sea Grass crazy, I thought I'd point out my experience with other wrasses.

I have observed that most wrasses of the Halichoeres family eat nudis. I have personally tried Christmas, Yellow and Green Coris wrasse, all of which did their job admirably.

Another hot contender from the Halichoeres family, is the Orange Stripe Wrasse (close relative of Christmas Wrasse, and cheaper)

The Christmas wrasse in particular has been in use for nudi control for ages and was popular in the early 90's when zoanthids first made their appearance in stores (yes, back when they were still dirt cheap).

I would very strongly caution everyone about the Lyretail wrasse from the Thalassoma family. These Lunar wrasses not only get rather large but also have quite an appetite for zoanthids.



Hope this helps
Nic

MUCHO REEF
04/24/2005, 07:19 PM
reefkeeper59, ZoMania, all I can say is WOW. I'm sorry that you feel that, "this sounds to good to be true", and that I wanted everyone to go Sea Grass crazy. Saying that, "this sounds to good to be true", leads me to believe that you are calling me a liar. I never said this before and I didn't want to sound like I was asking for a big thank you or credit for any of this, but I put an awful lot of time and money into this. I place my reef which has at least $ 3,000 in corals in it in harm's way. I also clearly stated that this was not my discovery, but OUR discovery. I knew it would take further conformation for those of you who could find an SG Wrasse and do what I did. This is why I clearly ask that someone would go out and purchase the fish to see if they received the same results. I still refuse to believe that I have the only SG that will consume nudis. I can assure evevryone that this is not some sort of joke or hoax for attention. I would be a fool to place my credibility in that kind of danger. I have watched many of my friends and many of you who have suffered a total lost as a result of a nudi infestation. My SG wrasse wiped out nudis 3 times, in the exact manner in which I stated. I concured with Mr. Calfo when he said that it doesn't mean that all of the SG Wrasses would eat nudis as well, I clearly aggreed with him.

I also stated that this fish would consume all of your pods, tiny snails and anything small moving in your reef.

The reason my wrasse turned black is because he is mimicing a Wasp Fish.

I'm not one to just sit back and wait for someone else to give us an answer. I was working on determining the actual gestation period of nudibranchs because so many have ask. I have even set up a dedicated tank loaded with nudis only and documenting the date the eggs were layed on the glass until they hatched. But if I posted that information, I would run the risk of being shot down if I am a day or two off.

Not angry or mad, just defensive for obvious reasons.

Mucho Reef, just a guy trying to help.

shilo_1
04/24/2005, 07:43 PM
I think you are doing a great thing, Mucho. At least you have given everyone a possible light at the end of a very long tunnel.
At least people have something now, other than just FW dip and wait.....and we can all learn from it.

reefkeeper59
04/24/2005, 07:56 PM
Mucho reef.

I surely have no intent of calling you a lier. Your everts are much appreciated.

I was aware of the if/maybe nudi eating wrasse as I have tried several myself with no luck. With $20,000 invested in corals and nearly 35 yrs fresh , 20 yrs with salt tanks, I was wise enough not to put this fish in my main system. No real harm done to speak of. Pods in this particular refuge will replentish by adding a few rock from other refuge I have. I dipped a 5" zoo rock other day that had 50+ pods fall off it.

Just had my hope's up.

Deepest apologies.

Steve

MUCHO REEF
04/24/2005, 08:29 PM
No need to apologise Steve, I just jumped the gun is all. Please accept my public apology though.

Best of luck with the nudis.

Mucho

Speckled Grouper
04/24/2005, 09:44 PM
Here's my take on this :
How many times have you read on RC that Six Line Wrasses and/or Mandarins eat Flatworms? And How many of you have raced to the LFS and purchased one, just to find out that this particular one does not seem to have a liking for Flatworms?
Those of us that are battling the nudis devoured your post and said "Yeah, finally, no more dipping, no more pain, get the wrasse and be done" I admit, I read the cons of the fish and it blew right out of my mind because I was so infatuated with this new shimmer of hope to save my prized possesions.
And I finally got the wrasse. And he is a beautiful fish and he seems to do his job, I haven't seen any nudis at all.
Did he eat them or did I do an exceptional dipping job? I don't know, but I doubt it (me doing a good job). Are there more? I don't know, but he might eat them, the way he scans, I think he WILL eat them.
Is he a pig? Yes. Does he eat pods? Yes. Does he make a mess? Yes.
Will I put up with him? Yes. Until I am 100% sure the last nudi has fallen!
So, thanks Mucho for the time and the effort spend, in this life, nothing is for sure, but one has to take chances in order to succeed.

PS. And the reason I call "him" a "him" is obvious, :)

ZoMania
04/24/2005, 10:22 PM
Mucho,

never said its too good to be true. Matter of fact, I know its true. All I did was add a number of other wrasses to the list. The intent was that not everyone had to wait for a sea grass wrasse but had alternatives.

I am sure the Sea Grass works just as well, just have not personally tried it.

rahre1
04/25/2005, 08:41 AM
I have a friend whose nudi problem was solved with a Haliochoeres Marginatus….super male. Problem now is his appetite for clove polyps - think he believes they are some form of work or critter rising out of the sandbed. Pros/Cons I guess. Just thought I would comment on ZoMania's comment on the family as a whole.

David4039
04/25/2005, 06:02 PM
I found a site that sells those wrasse's for $9 (medium size).

http://www.exoticfish.com/results.cfm?cat=0|1977|11|49|0&perPage=10&start=11

I don't know how well the veder is, but for $9 that isn't bad at all :)

Kennetht
04/25/2005, 06:38 PM
So are the Christmas Wrasse, the Green Coris Wrasse, and the Yellow Coris Wrasse reef safe? Just looking for some more options in case the Sea Grass decides to not be reef safe.

Snarkys
04/26/2005, 08:14 AM
Originally posted by Kennetht
So are the Christmas Wrasse, the Green Coris Wrasse, and the Yellow Coris Wrasse reef safe? Just looking for some more options in case the Sea Grass decides to not be reef safe.

live aquara lists them as "Reef Compatible: With Caution" meaning they will leave most corals alone but they are not all safe and it will eat small critters like snails and shrimp.

if ya have a bad nudi problem and dips are not working you may have to decide what is more reef safe the nudis or the wrasse

maybe someone with experience with these fish could chime in and tell us what corals they are not compatible with .

dmorel
04/27/2005, 09:25 AM
Would appreciate it if you guys who are following this thread could take a look here (http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=581495)
and give some advice on the best way to get started with trying to put on these bad boys to work.

Regards,
-dm

reefkeeper59
04/27/2005, 02:46 PM
It's been five days since I put the sea grass wrasse in. He ate all the pods in the first few hours in a small refuge. He hasn't had anything to eat in 5 days. He's gotta be hungry by now. I found a nudi today. Dropped in front of his face, he looked and swam away.

Of course this could be just this wrasse. Some may eat nudi's, some may not.

A while back I read a article (not sure I can find it again) that mentioned how scientists are not sure if the nudi injest the poison from the zoo or transport it on ther outer tissue to there back. They did confirm that the back is where the tart tasting poison is stored. The article mentioned that nudibranch eggs don't carry the poison and are victom to prey by fish. They would need to hatch and then injest the zoo poison.

I have (just counted) 125+ zoo colonies and about 100 (just counted) frags. With this many zoo's I would think that I would have a enormous nudibranch problem. I've dipped 4 rocks in 5 months. Those five rocks produced maybe 8 to 10 nudis (total). I have also found another 5 or so crawling about. So, thats 15 nudis in 5 months on 225 zoo's. I have one six line wrasse in 120gal (the tank that had the massive population exlosion in December) which also had a manderine that I moved to the 240gal. The 240 now has the manderine and a six line as well.

Is this a good ratio for the amount of zoo's? I think it would be.
Questions?

1.)For those who have any kind of wrasse, how is the reproduction rate of your nudibranch.

2.) For those who don't have a wrasse, how is your reproduction rate for the nudibranch.

3.)Who has several wrasse in a single tank that has nudibranch.

4.)What is the reproduction rate of these tanks with several wrasses.

5.)Who has several wrasse and a lot of zoo's that don't have nudibranch (especially those who don't quaritine)(sad thing is these folks probably aren't on this thread because they may not have the problem).

Point in all these questions is:
Is it possible for several wrasse (like the six and eight line,small mouth) to consume the egg population to the point of extinction.

If so, this would explain why the nudibranch population has not totaly devoured the zooathid in the wild. Maybe it's not "a" preditor, as more "many preditors" (wrasses and others) that are keeping these under control.

I do not have a problem purchasing half dozen wrasses.
Please supply some feedback to evaluate this theory. I'm headed to the store for more six lines.

Thanks in advance.

David4039
04/27/2005, 05:40 PM
I know I am new to the hobby, but since I found that I had these Nudibrach's I have read all that I could and done as much research as I could. The LFS where I got my zoo's had these things in there tank (said they didn't, but I found them and pointed them out). They keep a LOT of corals in one tank....zoanthids, leathers...etc. I have been going there everyday now since I found my nudi's and have found that the ones they have only stay on the orange eyed zoo's. (that is also where I found mine) I have another colony of brown zoo's and there were none on it. My thinking is maybe they only eat orange eyed zoo's and similar kinds of zoo's....I don't really know how speciaes of zoanthids work, but this is my observation.

Also, I captured two nudi's and put them in a baby food jar. After 7 days they were both still alive and there were at least 20-30 egg clusters. My plan was to keep them in the jar to see how long they lived without food and to see how long untill the eggs hatched. Well, I left them in my car the other night and the adults appear to be dead (sorry). I noticed egg clusters on my orange eyed zoo's a few days ago, untill a blue legged hermit found them...he ate all that I saw. Personally I don't like the idea of having to buy a fish, or any critter, to take care of another. Of course, I don't cultivate corals either....I just want them to be ok in my tank. There has to be some kind of home remede that can kill them, with the corals being fine. If I had a 10 gallon sitting around and a few of these pests I would try some, but unfortunatly I don't. I don't know if this helps at all, but it felt good to vent.

One more thing!! Since no-one has found out the scientific name yet, if it is a new species I claim rights to the Steckel Nudibrach!! :) Good luck everyone, I am taggin along!

reefkeeper59
04/27/2005, 07:22 PM
They have a name. I found them on a site (i'll try to find it again). Had alot of info about them, (feeding(they like eating spounges as well, also leathers),growth etc). Did not give a cure however, other than the fact that wrasses and someother fish ate the eggs. I bought the six lines after reading that articale. My number of nudi's have deplenished dramaticly. Not sure if that was a result of the wrasses or not. Currently on all those (225) zooanthids, I can't find a sigle clutch of eggs.

I picked up two more hawaiin 6 lines today. See what happens over the next month.

Anybody local to east central florida interested in a sea grass wrasse.

tor101898
04/29/2005, 10:26 AM
i've seen several photos of the nudi's but have not seen any egg photos. does anyone have any?

mfinn
04/29/2005, 10:32 AM
http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/500/11798nudieggs.jpg

tor101898
04/29/2005, 11:04 AM
thanks for the pic can they look different?

reefkeeper59
04/29/2005, 02:11 PM
Keep in mind that this sea grass wrasse is a preditor fish and is not reef safe. Peppermint shrimp, history.
http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/526/54040DSC_0076.JPG

reefkeeper59
04/30/2005, 02:26 AM
here is some info on nudibranch

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2002-09/rs/index.htm

David4039
04/30/2005, 05:44 AM
I though tI would post this web site that I found. Has some really good stuies done on preditation of Nudibranch's.

http://www.biolbull.org/cgi/content/full/205/3/367

David4039
04/30/2005, 06:53 AM
could this be our guy?

http://www.seaslugforum.net/factsheet.cfm?base=flabamab

also, check this out. an Aeolid that eats Aeolids :)

http://www.seaslugforum.net/display.cfm?id=9542

Kennetht
04/30/2005, 06:31 PM
how do you get rid of the egg sacks? We got rid of the Sea Grass Wrasse today, it tried to eat her Gorgonian. So, is the 6-line the only Reef Safe Wrasse that has been suggested as an alternative?

reefkeeper59
04/30/2005, 10:15 PM
Originally posted by David4039
I though tI would post this web site that I found. Has some really good stuies done on preditation of Nudibranch's.

http://www.biolbull.org/cgi/content/full/205/3/367

Without dought the best info supplied yet. Can't believe this little pest can modify its poison to fit the fish or crab that stalks it. Pretty much confirms that fish are not the solution. Or that they are only a temp solution. Takes max 14 days for the adjustment of its nematocyst.

http://www.biolbull.org/cgi/content/abstract/206/2/113?maxtoshow=&HITS=10&hits=10&RESULTFORMAT=&title=nudibranch&andorexacttitle=and&andorexacttitleabs=and&andorexactfulltext=and&searchid=1114920773774_493&stored_search=&FIRSTINDEX=0&sortspec=relevance&journalcode=biolbull


Explains why there isn't a bottle of nudibranch exit

reefkeeper59
04/30/2005, 11:48 PM
Originally posted by cheryld1974
Just wanted to let everyone know...a couple months ago, before I had read this post, I had the same luck with a wrasse--but not this kind. The wrasse I had was a Lyretail (Thalassoma lunare). Upon seeing this post, I just thought I would let everyone know that others will work, also!

So your saying that the wrasse you choose ate all your nudi ,the eggs and you don't have a single nudibranch? Even one?

It's going to take alot longer then two months to determine if it was succesful. Or should we all go out and get this fish instead.

It would seem to me that sceintist that study these (and there are a bunch going back over 100 yrs) would be aware of any preditor that may consume them. From a article I read recently, the nudi can change its venome/poison to match the preitor that seeks it. Even carieing multi venom at the same time. Reason the the multible sacks on its back. Sceintist say they cthey can take in one venom/poison and modify it chemical structure creating a new poison (needed to defend againts a specific preditor). The ajustment in its nematocyst takes two weeks. Once two weeks is up, the fish more than likely won't touch it (maybe even within a couple days). There may only be a few days that the fish may even attemp to devour it.

This sea grass wrasse for example looks like a 20 inch oscar chasing a gold fish into the corner and kicking its ***. Yet mine darted across the tank, looked at my nudi and swam away. Only did it take one into it's mouth when first I dropped a couple copopods in, to get him to the top of tank. He grabed it, spit it out and ran down the corner of the tank as if scared. Couple minutes later he's looking for pods. This guy is willing to starve before taking interest in a nudibranch.

One article mention that there wher large quanities of them on moring lines in water inhabitied by wrasses.

A starfish and a grab wher two possabilities of a preditor that may eat these nudi's and I looked for the grab so far and they are illegal to posess.

Dipping in freshwater may be the only solution.

Who is going to stand there ground that they solved the problem with a wrasse? Anybody? Gotta be 100% shur. ?

David4039
04/30/2005, 11:58 PM
It seems to me that people are focusing on the wrong thing here. I don't have any interest in anything that kills the adults really. What I want to find is something that will either eat the eggs (natural preditation) or someway to kill the eggs with chems or whatever. I think the focus should be on the eggs. Even better would be a combo of the two, but after finding that article it looks like there is little hope of riding a tank of adults with natural preditation. Maybe the only solution is going to just be to manually remove the eggs and adults as you see them.

unicornis
05/03/2005, 03:21 AM
Guys.. You are not going to believe this..... i recently purchase a wrasse(ok out of impulse, i admit) from red sea... ok it was very nice thus it got me hook on... the lfs owner couldn't ID what this fish is so i decide to bring it home to ID, whats more is that the lfs owner sold me this fish close to his cost cos he was trying out diff wrasse from red sea....

Took it home, after flipping different books, finally got a proper ID... it was a halichoeres scapularis or commonly called the Zigzag wrasse.... its not commonly collected... wow a halichoeres, i decided to add it to my tank(if it was a thalassoma, i was have pss it on to someone) thinking that it may help my clam free of pyramid snail.. just for prevention

I guess most of you guys know that i have a 60gallon full zoos and clam tank.... ok heres what happen, on the first day of introduction, this wrasse has been going ard picking on my zoos, not sure whats its eating but at that time i was thinking it maybe feeding on tiny starfish and crabs....Ok now this is the intersting part, i bought this fish 3 days ago and 2days ago i spotted a adult nudi climbing on the walls of my tank... i was like OH NO.... i immediately went to get my tweezers to remove it... While removing, the nudi accidentally came of(at that time i was like oh no, this guy is gonna destroy my zoos collection if it gets into my tank).. while the nudi was dropping to my sandbed, the wrasse just WAMP.... chew and ate it... I was totally stunt and could not believe what i see.....WEll i guess theres always some exception... Nonetheless if this guy doesn't feed on nudi i was still happy to add it to my tank......

Ok this guy is not hard shell invert safe..... I sold my squamosa today and upon removing my squamy, 2 hairy crabs came off... SAme thing the wrasse goes down wth a swoop and the crab was gone..... I do not have any shrimps in my tank so i am please to have this wrasse.....

Conclusion- Happy me, and i may have found a solution to my nudi prob.....

Some pic of the wrasse..... Pic in non flash was noisy as thats the best my lousy sony camera can do....

http://www.sgreefclub.com/forum/uploads/post-34-1115100672.jpg

http://www.sgreefclub.com/forum/uploads/post-34-1115101510.jpg

http://www.sgreefclub.com/forum/uploads/post-34-1115100730.jpg

http://www.sgreefclub.com/forum/uploads/post-34-1115100785.jpg

http://www.sgreefclub.com/forum/uploads/post-34-1115100867.jpg


I will continue to monitor this guy and hopefully bring you guys with more good news... Maybe this guy can be a alternative solution to the sea grass wrasse:)

jamal-188
05/05/2005, 07:38 AM
This isn't the wrasse I need is it? I have monti-eating nudi's....... I was told the second wrasse would work and I"m trying to get one at work. We keep to in our large coral tray and they are always picking at corals and clams shells. Any comments on these two wrasses?

https://cms.psu.edu/AngelUploads/Files/cab313/problem/limegreen.jpg

https://cms.psu.edu/AngelUploads/Files/cab313/problem/Melanarus%20Wrasse%20-%20Halechoris%20Melanarus.jpg

Snarkys
05/05/2005, 10:10 AM
Originally posted by ZoMania
Before everyone goes Sea Grass crazy, I thought I'd point out my experience with other wrasses.

I have observed that most wrasses of the Halichoeres family eat nudis. I have personally tried Christmas, Yellow and Green Coris wrasse, all of which did their job admirably.

Another hot contender from the Halichoeres family, is the Orange Stripe Wrasse (close relative of Christmas Wrasse, and cheaper)

The Christmas wrasse in particular has been in use for nudi control for ages and was popular in the early 90's when zoanthids first made their appearance in stores (yes, back when they were still dirt cheap).

I would very strongly caution everyone about the Lyretail wrasse from the Thalassoma family. These Lunar wrasses not only get rather large but also have quite an appetite for zoanthids.



Hope this helps
Nic

just wanted to bump this . i think this information was passed up to quickly.

jamal-188
05/05/2005, 11:36 AM
I know the wrasse is not a long term solution and it won't solve the egg problem. I'm just hoping it could dwindle the numbers to the point where I can scrub the eggs. I have far too many corals/rock that have had monti nudi's on to scrub every single rock for weeks/months on end.

Snarkys
05/05/2005, 12:08 PM
how big do they get before they lay eggs ? i mean will the wrasses catch them before they get big enough to lay eggs ?

reefkeeper59
05/11/2005, 12:58 AM
the eggs do not carrie the palytoxin. the key is getting something to working the egg population down, not the adults. If eggs are gone there won't be any adults. I read an article that said wrasses "may" eat the eggs. I have 2 six lines and 2 scooter blennies and a manderine. I've only found about 15 nudis since mid december. This is very good with 200 zoo colonies, 150+ zoo frags.

tor101898
05/11/2005, 09:19 AM
well its been several weeks since i found my first nudi,and quickly started doing this process.i can say that there are fewer visible adults.yesterday i did a hand inspection and found five adults and about ten egg sacs scattered over the zoo polyps. i used fine point tweezers and the dip and things are going well.i had a bout with ick so the fish option is not feasable at the moment,however as soon as the tank is ready i'll get several six lines and a mandarin.hopfully that will remedy the situation some in addition to the dip and tweezers.by the way thanks for the post of the egg sac, without it i would have by passed the eggs.

aaronlovesshel
05/18/2005, 02:50 PM
today I went to the LFS and asked that a Zoo polyp rock be moved to a different tank to see it under those lights. In that tank was a resident Christmas Wrasse that immediately went to work on the rock, circled it several times, diving and picking intermittently. I came back here checked this post to confirm what I thought I read and then called back to put one on hold.

I am hoping that this one has the same disposition as the one in the display tank (just came in today and will be in quarantine for 2 weeks before release at the LFS)

Wanted to say thanks to Mucho and Zomania and all others for your posts and experiences.

Aaron

wet reefer
05/18/2005, 08:36 PM
Thought I'd throw my 2 cents in here. My 55 gal "zoo" tank is only 5 months old. In that time I have found about half a dozen nudies . When the tank was first set up I did find 2 eggs sacks and none since. I have scoured over this tank day and night looking and the last nudi found, full grown, so far was about two weeks ago. I have about a 150 or so of small blue leg hermits (way too many)and half a dozen peppermint shrimp that are constantly going through the colonies. My point here is that I started with nudies (and may still have some) but I havnt seen an egg sack since the tank was set up. Right now I can hear "well your just not seeing them" but I have removed as many zoo rocks as posible several times and gone over every polyp. No egg sacks. I believe the hermits and shrimp are eating any sacks before I can find them. I would think that any tank with a viable population of nudies would be producing eggs and I'm not finding any. Also I havnt dipped since the tank was set up so I would think I should be overrun with nudies if something wasnt eating the eggs. If I'm wrong and I start seeing more of these bastards I'll follow Mucho's observation and get that wrasse, but I believe the ultimate solution is egg predation. I think everybody should keep an open mind and stop slamming or mocking those who stick their necks out and tell us all what worked for them. If no one is willing to try new things AND post it where would we be?

GregM779
05/19/2005, 01:46 PM
Well I didn't have time to read every post in this thread but needed to post this.
I bought a seagrass wrasse about 3 weeks ago, before I read this thread. Today he decided to start attacking my clams. I just took my dragon wrasse out last week for the same reason, very similar fish, both move rocks, eat clams, swim the same. If you guys are really set on getting one of these fish you may want to try a dragon wrasse but they are definitely not reef safe just like these fish.

mummra100769
05/22/2005, 01:25 AM
well after a long waiting period i can say without a doubt that this wrasse is not the answer to zoanthid nudis. mine will not even look at the nudis and passes them right over to go after amphipods. when i upgrade the tank he is going back to the lfs. thanx any ways mucho but i think your wrasse is unique.

tor101898
05/23/2005, 07:46 AM
well after keeping an eye on my zoo's i've yet to see any nudis.keeping my fingers crossed for now . once again thanks for the tip it really helped.
a bit on the tidious side ,however its worth the effort when you see the zoo's start to open up again.

RedevanceUK
06/01/2005, 08:10 AM
so what are the main wrasses that seem to eat the nudis, I have a PJ will he do the job ??

RedevanceUK
06/01/2005, 08:10 AM
so what are the main wrasses that seem to eat the nudis, I have a PJ will he do the job ??

Reef Junkie
06/06/2005, 07:23 AM
Tag

birdman204
07/13/2005, 01:22 AM
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/member2.php?s=&action=addsubscription&threadid=533167

;)

angry.clownfish
07/16/2005, 04:15 PM
just read Muncho's journey... can anyone tell me what a nudis is and what they do to zoanthids? my zoos sometimes shrink really small and i lose alot when that happens. is this caused by nudis?

clsund
08/04/2005, 12:17 AM
Man, they eat leathers too? No wonder all my leathers disappeared. I may experiment with a wrasse.

Skorpinok
08/06/2005, 10:44 PM
Where can I buy a seagrass wrasse, locally - in the bay area, or online?

I will try it. My zoa's are vanishing before my eye.

MUCHO REEF
08/07/2005, 09:02 AM
Nudibranchs aka, Nudis, are tiny zoo predators which will often mimic the color of the colony they are destroying by extracting the zooxanthellae from said colony. They are very slow moving and they will slowly run for cover once your lights come on. If you see one, you are sure to have many more which you can't see.

angry.clownfish, there are a host of reasons why your zoos might be shrinking. Can you be a bit more discriptive and give as much background as possible on the issues you are having. Dipping won't hurt them if you are just trying to find out if you have nudis.

clsund, I have never heard of them eating Leathers. Maybe something to look into.

To-Arbitrate, are you sure it's nudis? Have you seen them or have you dipped them yet?

Mucho Reef

Skorpinok
08/07/2005, 09:39 AM
Dip the zoa' into what? Is this something you have to buy?

MUCHO REEF
08/07/2005, 11:59 AM
This is what I use.


http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=451720


Mucho

Reef Junkie
08/07/2005, 12:43 PM
It's been an uphill battle, but I'm finally winning.
There are less and less of them. Except yesterday I found the largest one I've ever seen under one of my M. caps.
I quickly siphoned it and brushed the eggs off.
I
I've stopped dipping, I was told to remove the colonies from their rocks and just keep the healthy tissue. (Throw out the rock and tissue you cannot separate from the rock.)
Basically make the colony so you can easily spot the nudi's and they can't hide in nooks and crannies.
Been working great for me so far. And I don't stress the colony too bad like they would if I dipped them.
My prized monti's are making a comeback.;)

MUCHO REEF
08/07/2005, 02:41 PM
Reef Junkie, you are talking about Montipora eating Nudibranchs. They are totally different from Zooanthid eating Nudis. Glad you are having success though, that's great. Removing all of the zoo colonies from their rocks would be nearly impossible and would cause far more damage than good.

Good luck and I hope you defeat them.

Mucho

Reef Junkie
08/07/2005, 04:27 PM
LoL, I got this thread confused with the Monti eating thread I'm in as well...
:lmao:
Sorry about that.;)

mikestod
08/17/2005, 11:11 AM
If anyone has some please PM. I'm looking to introduce them to my SPS tank to eradicate some zoos that I can't get out.

FishFreak20
08/17/2005, 11:16 AM
SO you want the nudi's? Just send me the zoas!

Snarkys
10/01/2005, 02:23 PM
when ya break the egg sac is that good enough or do you need to make sure to scrub all the eggs off ?

KH971
10/03/2005, 08:43 AM
Are these the same as a Nudibrachs? The colorful ones? Or are they different? Please post a pic!!!

Thanks Keith

Snarkys
10/03/2005, 09:06 AM
Originally posted by Snarkys
when ya break the egg sac is that good enough or do you need to make sure to scrub all the eggs off ?


anyone ?

ellisz
10/03/2005, 09:24 AM
I was told that disbursing the egg sacks in the tank is just spreading them. I have been dipping the rocks and taking a tooth brush to the sacks and then washing them off in a buchet.

I will say that I found a lot of egg sacks on the underside of 2 mushrooms. I removed them because they were not handling the dips very well and noticed the eggs then. Not sure where else they might be hiding :(

I am just happy that my frag tank appears to be staying clean. I have not seen any there...

KH971
10/03/2005, 09:29 AM
Are these the same colorful nudibranchs that I have seen in the pet store?

ellisz
10/03/2005, 09:56 AM
Some are ok, some eat zoos and some eat Montipora corals from what I have read. Never seen any at a LFS though.

funkyman
11/08/2005, 12:07 PM
The nudis I was battling seemingly diappeared after a flatworm treatment (Flatworm Exit). This may have been purely coincidental though, and I'm at a loss to prove otherwise.

If you're at a point where you've exhausted all other avenues though, what have you got to loose?

Snarkys
11/08/2005, 12:11 PM
Originally posted by funkyman
The nudis I was battling seemingly diappeared after a flatworm treatment (Flatworm Exit). This may have been purely coincidental though, and I'm at a loss to prove otherwise.

If you're at a point where you've exhausted all other avenues though, what have you got to loose?


could it be that easy ?

funkyman
11/08/2005, 12:36 PM
It'd be awesome if it was. I'd be curious to know if anyone else tries it.

Reef Junkie
11/08/2005, 12:48 PM
I would try it.

mfinn
11/08/2005, 07:26 PM
I use FWE in the dip that I use. Not sure if it helps or not.

Reef Junkie
11/08/2005, 08:40 PM
Ah, I did this the last time. this is about Zoa nudi's, right?
I don't have those, it's the monti nudi's I'm concerned with.
I wonder if it would have the same effect?

StrongHandsMcGee
12/30/2005, 09:47 AM
I've had good luck battling nudis using my yellow coris wrasse. I didn't even get him thinking that he would eat them, but lo and behold, a couple of days after I got him I saw him jump on a couple of nudis. It's been 3 months, and I haven't seen a single nudi or egg since I added the wrasse. I'm not saying that all yellow coris eat nudis, it might vary by the individual just as with the seagrass wrasse. Mucho, thanks for helping to find a solution to the nudi nightmare.

just dave
01/01/2006, 10:45 PM
I've got a trio of Pink Streaked wrasses and the eat up the nudis.

When I catch some in the shop I bring 'em home and put 'em in my tank to eat. They seem to like 'em and they are spawning regularly so I throw some nudis in for that little bit of natural fare. Kinda sick I know.

This is what juv. and females look like.
http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/507/59396Pink_streaked_wrasse_2_rc.JPG

This is what a male looks like.
http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/500/59396145_pink_streaked_2_RC.jpg
http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/500/59396145_pink_streaked_1_RC.jpg

Who knows? Maybe it'd work well for others. They are sexually dichromatic,similar in habits to sixlines and their genus but without the attitude and are smaller. So still a cool fish.

MUCHO REEF
01/02/2006, 07:43 AM
I still believe in the Sea Grass Wrasse, I also believe that the Wrasse is the natural hunter when all waited for. It just has to be proven one way or the other. Trust me, it won't be long. I'll leave it at that.

Happy hunting.

Mucho

karl~23
01/08/2006, 11:08 PM
can anyone post a link on where I can get one? I need one badly.

ellisz
01/09/2006, 04:01 PM
What is the genus name for these wrasses? Are any of them shrimp and reef safe?

The Shrimp X
01/10/2006, 12:19 AM
does anyone know if any of the wrasses that eat the zo nudis, will eat monti nudis?

StrongHandsMcGee
01/10/2006, 09:12 AM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6460977#post6460977 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by ellisz
What is the genus name for these wrasses? Are any of them shrimp and reef safe?
The genus is Halichoeres. As to being reef and shrimp safe, I think this is another one of those cases where it depends on the individual fish. I haven't had any problems with my Yellow Coris Wrasse, and I keep him in a small reef with a fire shrimp.

mfinn
01/10/2006, 07:24 PM
The Shrimp X,
I had a real bad problem with the monti eating nudibranch and got a green coris wrasse. He has done a great goob. Haven't seen a nudi in months.
The way it hunts constantly, I believe this fish would eat any nudi.

ellisz
01/13/2006, 01:14 PM
The genus is Halichoeres. As to being reef and shrimp safe, I think this is another one of those cases where it depends on the individual fish. I haven't had any problems with my Yellow Coris Wrasse, and I keep him in a small reef with a fire shrimp.

So are you saying that any Halichoeres might do the trick? I went to a LFS near me that always has a few wrasses and told me that is a big genus. What specific wrasses have people tried? I thought the Sea Grass wrasse mentioned at the beginning was a Novaculichthys Macrolepidotus? Is the Pink streaked wrasse shown above in the Halichoeres genus? A google search said it was a Pseudocheilinops ataenia.

He offered me a sixline or a Mystery wrasse he had in the store. The Mystery wrasse is cool but very expensive to try out. He is supposed to be getting a Leapard wrasse in tonight. He thought this might be worth a shot.

Any thoughts?

NewBeReef627
01/25/2006, 03:35 PM
I had some and they were multiplying like crazy. I purchased a 6 line wrasse and I cant find a single one. I didnt even buy him for that reason.

Lori

surfnvb7
03/08/2006, 09:31 PM
any updates on any more wrasses? such as the green coris wrasse? mystery wrasse? lunar wrasse? leopard wrasse?

mucho do you still have that sea grass wrasse workin?

just curious.

66deuce
03/09/2006, 12:50 PM
My yellow wrasse takes care of any naughty nudis in my tank. He's been guarding my zoos quite thoroughly.

ecotoxlady
03/09/2006, 12:56 PM
66duece, my yellow coris wrasse do as well :)

jasno999
04/05/2006, 10:28 AM
SO has anyone figured out a place to purchase Sea Grass Wrasse ( Novaculichthys Macrolepidotus )?

mfinn
04/05/2006, 11:47 AM
After making several requests from a couple different lfs in my area, they all ended up with a couple. So you just have to ask your lfs.

ganjero
04/06/2006, 11:48 PM
I got a 6 line and a yellow wrasse to see if the help but I put them in my tank 2 days ago and I havent seen them since then.

jasno999
04/07/2006, 06:07 AM
Are there any online stores that I could get one from?

ecotoxlady
04/07/2006, 09:44 AM
Ganjero, give them some time because wrasse can take a few days before they come out of hiding in a new environment. Once they come out of hiding you'll start seeing them all the time :)

ecotoxlady
04/07/2006, 09:46 AM
jasno, try calling www.atlantisaquarium.net as they have gotten fish for me in the past that they didn't normally carry and my yellow coris came from them and the shipping was excellent.

tigerczr
04/08/2006, 12:52 AM
Can someone help me identify this Nudi? I just found him after the lights went off. As you can see he is black gray, he actually looks really cool. Is he reef safe or should I toss him?

Thanks

http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c393/tigerczr/100_1950.jpg

http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c393/tigerczr/100_1945.jpg

http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c393/tigerczr/100_1955.jpg

popsock
04/08/2006, 03:32 AM
No idea what it is but I've had one in my tank for a year. It's gone from 1" to 3" in that time. No problems with it whatsoever. I guess there's a chance though that it could look practically identical and still be a different species, so some caution is probably wise.

ecotoxlady
04/08/2006, 08:44 AM
It's really cool whatever it is!

mfinn
04/08/2006, 09:06 AM
I have a couple of those. I believe the common name is elephant snail. I was told a algae eater only

fastjunkie
04/19/2006, 06:46 PM
Hey Mucho..
New update!!!!...I bought a lunar wrasse to take care of my sundial snail problem,which he did in a matter of days,but it also seems that nudi's are very tasty to him.I just happened to see him devour a few last night before I turned my actintics off.

tor101898
04/20/2006, 10:34 PM
its a limpet and its reef safe, there are several kinds of them.interesting to watch and they breed well in the tank environment.

Neptune777
05/20/2006, 05:43 PM
I've heard the Lunare wrasse is the way to go ......but only as real small juveniles..they tend to be nasty towrads hermits and shrimp when they get larger. I am picking up a couple this week from the LFS (about 2-3inches in length). I have a yellow coris that seems to eat them.....but I want something else to broaden the attack.

I have heard that the coral wholesalers use small schools of Lunares to keep these monti nudi's under control with newly collected corals......

RockinRichie
05/21/2006, 08:47 AM
I just found this forum, and it is hard to go back and read all 8 pages..can someone tell me bottom line, what is the most effective? We have had our tweezers out for 3 days trying to clear our Zoa's of these nasty little nudi's.

RockinRichie
05/21/2006, 08:47 AM
I just found this forum, and it is hard to go back and read all 8 pages..can someone tell me bottom line, what is the most effective? We have had our tweezers out for 3 days trying to clear our Zoa's of these nasty little nudi's.

TWallace
06/05/2006, 09:39 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6466127#post6466127 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by StrongHandsMcGee
The genus is Halichoeres. As to being reef and shrimp safe, I think this is another one of those cases where it depends on the individual fish. I haven't had any problems with my Yellow Coris Wrasse, and I keep him in a small reef with a fire shrimp.

I've got a Neon Wrasse (Halichoeres garnoti) that I've had for around a month in my reef (mostly in hopes that it will eat nudis). He doesn't bother my two cleaner shrimp or the two blood red fire shrimp I got last week. He is a juvenille though, so I can't vouch for adult behavior.

I don't know if he eats the nudibranchs. I never see big ones anymore, but I've still got a nudi problem. Now when I dip my frags in FW, only tiny nudis fall off, too small to see if left in the tank. I have several times seen the wrasse inspect zoanthid frags, peck at them, and occasionally flip them over and continue to inspect. So he's eating something off them for sure, but I don't think my wrasse alone is the cure. Maybe with FW dips everyday for a few weeks, ugg.

Interestingly, the nudis I have only seem to go after certain zoanthids. I've got a fire and ice colony that's always looked fantastic. I've got two frags of it in different parts of the tank, both look great, never bothered by nudis. I've also got some bright yellows that never show signs of irritation. But other frags are constantly closed up and losing polyps.

ZoeReef
06/08/2006, 06:52 PM
Well I just did the time compression, read 6 months in one sitting.

To my untrained eye it seems that a wide variety of people have had success with a wide variety of wrasses eating nudis. But it doesn't appear that any one type of wrasse is totally predictable in their desire to eat them. Perhaps then it is more of an individual matter of finding the right wrasse among many. I'm not dealing with this issue right now, but If I was I would probably try out a number of them in order to find one that likes nudi-burgers. (Did I mention that I like Gorgonzolla cheese..Don't all humans?) :D

TWallace
06/08/2006, 09:23 PM
I think my wrasse (Halichoeres garnoti) is eating the larger nudibranchs as I haven't seen one over 1/8" in a few weeks. However, he doesn't get the tiny ones, which doesn't really solve the problem, but I guess he helps contain the outbreak. I'm still FW dipping frags and several tiny nudibranchs fall off, but I never see any eggs. I'm not sure how to solve this problem if I can't find the eggs.

I have ordered some Flatworm Exit as a last ditch effort, since I've heard it may work. It should arrive tomorrow.

ellisz
06/09/2006, 07:36 AM
I have been having good luck with a sixline wrasse. I removed all the zoos from the display and QT'd them in a 40 gal system with the sixline. I have not noticed any in the main and I don't see any activity in the QT system either. I have seen the wrasse hunt and peck the zoos too.

ept04
06/20/2006, 05:23 PM
dipping in lugols and a keeping close watch afterwards did the trick for me

redbelly
06/22/2006, 04:42 PM
I couldnt find any seagrass wrasse, so I have just been giving my zoo's a FW dip. What a pain! I had to empty half the tank. I picked up a green wrasse and he seems to be constantly hunting through the zoo's but i cant tell to be honest if he is looking for copods or nudi's.
All my zoo rock's are now in quarenteen, and i have not seen a nudi in about a week.
How long will any nudi's remaining in the tank survive? anyone know?

xylem
07/07/2006, 01:35 PM
I have had zoa eatind nudis for abour 3 months. I recently bought a mystery wrasse, he is eating all of the adult nudis.

I still have small nudis and eggs.

Snarkys
07/07/2006, 01:46 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7525260#post7525260 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by ZoeReef
Well I just did the time compression, read 6 months in one sitting.

To my untrained eye it seems that a wide variety of people have had success with a wide variety of wrasses eating nudis. But it doesn't appear that any one type of wrasse is totally predictable in their desire to eat them. Perhaps then it is more of an individual matter of finding the right wrasse among many. I'm not dealing with this issue right now, but If I was I would probably try out a number of them in order to find one that likes nudi-burgers. (Did I mention that I like Gorgonzolla cheese..Don't all humans?) :D

i had good luck with the cheapo yellow wrasse.

http://www.petsolutions.com/Images/200/149300.jpg

most people have good luck with the Halichoeres family of wrasse. all they do is hunt the rocks looking for anything that moves and eat it. seagrass wrasse is in that family

Snarkys
07/07/2006, 01:47 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7698454#post7698454 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by xylem
I have had zoa eatind nudis for abour 3 months. I recently bought a mystery wrasse, he is eating all of the adult nudis.

I still have small nudis and eggs.

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7526217#post7526217 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by TWallace
I think my wrasse (Halichoeres garnoti) is eating the larger nudibranchs as I haven't seen one over 1/8" in a few weeks. However, he doesn't get the tiny ones, which doesn't really solve the problem, but I guess he helps contain the outbreak. I'm still FW dipping frags and several tiny nudibranchs fall off, but I never see any eggs. I'm not sure how to solve this problem if I can't find the eggs.

I have ordered some Flatworm Exit as a last ditch effort, since I've heard it may work. It should arrive tomorrow.

there is a chance he will eat them all before they get to the reproductive stage and eventually eradicate them all .

Snarkys
07/07/2006, 01:56 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7408615#post7408615 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by RockinRichie
I just found this forum, and it is hard to go back and read all 8 pages..can someone tell me bottom line, what is the most effective? We have had our tweezers out for 3 days trying to clear our Zoa's of these nasty little nudi's.


hands down the most effective solution is to take the rock out and dip it in iodine freshwater (10 drops a gallon) every week until have wiped them out. i personally stopped picking off the eggs and just did weekly dips until they all died.

The idea is you kill all the adults with the dip but then the eggs hatch and then you kill them with the next dip before they reach the reproductive stage. in a month you should be good to go . get yourself a yellow corssis wrasse to be safe : )

I had a prop system completely infested with these . i mean thousands .... after about 6 weekly dips and a few wrasses i haven't see one in about a year now.

imho , dipping will kill them and is the best solution. buying a fish that eats them will help control the populations and have a small possibility of eradicating them.

bilby
07/09/2006, 06:49 PM
I hate the nudi, they took out my whole tank.

Emster
07/09/2006, 07:56 PM
I just wanted to say on here that my yellow coris wrasse took care of my nudi problem.

TWallace
07/09/2006, 09:08 PM
I had great success with a Neon Wrasse and Flatworm eXit combined. The wrasse alone did not work, though it helped.

Greencup
07/14/2006, 10:24 PM
That is great to know.. It sucks picking out nudis..

superman1013
07/20/2006, 11:26 AM
Can Flatworm Exit work with these nudis as well? I didn't know that...

ReefDoctorMicromussas
08/07/2006, 02:20 PM
Thanks to this post I got a Sea Grass Wrass in within three days he cleaned up a total infestation... He is brown though BUT HE worked PERFECTLY! Like a nidi picking MACHINE! If anyone asks I will post pics

ReefDoctorMicromussas
08/07/2006, 02:20 PM
"Thanks to this post I got a Sea Grass Wrass in within three days he cleaned up a total infestation... He is brown though BUT HE worked PERFECTLY! Like a nidi picking MACHINE! If anyone asks I will post pics"

Pushed the button twice :( My bad

ReefDoctorMicromussas
08/07/2006, 02:22 PM
I think that sometimes... LFS sellers may call something a "Sea Grass Wrass" or someone may misidentify a fish and that would also explain some of the variances in Nudi eating habits

Voltekker
09/05/2006, 10:31 PM
i bought a sea grass since im always buying corals online. I took a preventitive measure. My only complaint is that he picks on my cleaner shrimp and its always hiding now. Also he picks at my favorite snails.

allurex22
09/20/2006, 10:20 AM
i have heard alot about the green wrasse, and eating nudis. i always battle nudis. i normally use the flatworm exit. it works well but to have a constant cleaner in my tank would be nice. i'm going to have to look for him soon.

ReefDoctorMicromussas
09/20/2006, 12:27 PM
I love my Sea Grass... every tank from now on will have one... but yes you are right I no longer have pepermint shrimp

moses13
10/10/2006, 11:42 AM
I just discovered yesterday that I also have a nudi problem. I haven't added a new coral in probably 6 months.

For the last few weeks, I'd noticed most of my zoos staying closed all the time and last night I moved a frag of green zoas to a new location and noticed what appeared to be a new bright red zoa had mysteriously popped up right in the middle! Sweet! I completed my maintenance and re-checked the colony, only to find the new red one had moved! Closer inspection ( and a pair of tweezers) and it was a nudi.

My pride quickly turned to horror as I put 2 and 2 together, immediately finding about a dozen more all over. I had a Halichoeres Melanurus for the last couple years that died a couple months ago, so I can assume he was keeping the population in check the whole time, but never erradicating them, and now the population is exploding with no predation.

I'm wondering if anyone else has noticed population bounce back?

That wrasse also ate flatworms, feather dusters, bristle worms, and mini brittle stars, so it was already kind of a love/hate relationship we had going.

juin21
10/26/2006, 03:21 PM
Me and adin (head mod a www.nano-reef.com) syphoned out 2 nudi's from my 7 gal mini bow (stop laughing please) as well as 20 flatworms.

I have a colony of Rah's Eye zoas that were shriveling up an noticed and believed it may have been the flatworms.


We syphoned out about a 1/2 gallon. we then placed 3 drops of flatworm exit into the container and after 10-20 minutes the flatworms and nudis wer dead ;) Ofcourse this was way above the recommended dosage.

I dosed my 7 gal with 6 drops and low and behold, found two very much alive nudi's 3 days later munching on my Rah's Eye zoa's. :( (They were the same color as the zoa's they were munching on) I had around 30-40 polyps and I think i have maybe 5 that are now going to survive. :( I think flatworm exit will work but dosage may have to be increased which may risk other critters in the tank....:confused:

Any info on dosing recommendations for flatworm exit without causing collateral damage?

juin21
10/27/2006, 10:55 AM
Sorry for hijacking this thread, but FYI.... i put in 7 drops of flatworm exit into my 7 gallon last night and examined a nubi that was about 1/4 inches long. After 10 minutes i siphoned him out with some additional water and examed him. 1 hour 30 minutes later, nubi was still alive :( I guess i have to use more flatworm exit but am afraid to overdose.......

kyle1284
11/10/2006, 10:05 PM
ok after sitting down and reading all of this ... what are pods? can someone please inform me,,, thanks

ReefDoctorMicromussas
11/11/2006, 07:48 AM
Amphipods, Copepods, Isopods

They are very small shrimplike creatures that look like bugs in your tank.... They help to clean things overall and are an excellent food source for your fish and other foraging life. In general a very important part of your closed ecosystem.

tigerarmy
11/23/2006, 02:35 PM
i had the same problem with nudis... i have a hawaiian wrasse that i got and he has eaten all of the nudis!!! its awesome, hes constantly searchin through all my frags and rocks just pickin away, havent seen or had to pick out any nudis in like 3 weeks!!

Hawaiian wrasse!

mgny
11/24/2006, 09:50 AM
Can you post a pic of the hawaiian wrasse. If not maybe the scientific name. Thanks Mike

tigerarmy
11/24/2006, 01:04 PM
yeah i'll try to get a pic asap, im heading over to the lfs today, will check out in the book if i can get a name for ya

mgny
11/24/2006, 01:56 PM
Thanks man. I have been fighting the nudis for a couple of months. The dips have worked out fine. I am no longer seeing the nudis or egg sacs like i had. I ordered a seagrass from blue zoo but he did'nt survive. I have a cleaner wrasse and a lubbock which are hunting through the zoos, pretty sure they are eating the small ones. I want to add a few more predators to finish them off. Thanks Mike

Galilean
01/15/2007, 08:35 AM
I have a couple rocks in a 20 gallon with 4 types of zoos. These nudibranchs are living on them, but the population remains small because I have some unusual worms that hunt them down. The worm is grey with black patches. These worms are at least 3-4 cm long and have a circular mouth that opens wider than the body. The worm reaches up between zooanthid polyps to grab nudibranchs off the tops and eat them. The zoos continue to grow and divide and none have died despite having the nudibranchs on them for about a year.

mfinn
01/15/2007, 08:37 AM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8985353#post8985353 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Galilean
I have a couple rocks in a 20 gallon with 4 types of zoos. These nudibranchs are living on them, but the population remains small because I have some unusual worms that hunt them down. The worm is grey with black patches. The worms are at least 3-4 cm long and have a circular mouth that opens wider than the body. The worm reaches up between zooanthid polyps to grab nudibranchs off the tops and eat them. The zoos continue to grow and divide and none have died despite having the nudibranchs on them for about a year.


You really need to get some pictures of this.:eek1: :eek1:

pperez
01/26/2007, 05:05 PM
Here's some Pictures to help ID some of these nudibranches. I am still battling them, but i plan on doing the freshwater dip. I have done the FE with lugols but it was using saltwater. This time i'll use freshwater. HTH

In the last picture i have circled the eggs.

http://www.pbase.com/ppphotography/image/73175592/original.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/ppphotography/image/73581917/original.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/ppphotography/image/73581915/original.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/ppphotography/image/73581911/original.jpg

ReefDoctorMicromussas
01/26/2007, 05:47 PM
Very very pretty pictures...

Awesome even :)

BUT the eggs will survive the dip....then the nudis come back and infest the rest of your $$$$ colonies :( you need an Obsessive Compulsive Sea Grass Wrass! I fought infestation forever, tryed everything... He came along and is like an evil nudibranch TERMINATOR ... Never have seen another nudi!

pperez
01/26/2007, 06:15 PM
Yeah i read the thread, but i don't really have a lot of zoos right now, so dipping is not that bad. I can dip every week if i have to, that is if i don't get lazy, lol.

I just didn't like the fact that the wrasse also preyed on snails, crabs and such. I would hate to lose my cleaner shrimp pair. For now i will continue to dip weekly until the eggs hatch. With enough dibs, i should be able to get rid of them.

If i had a tank full of zoos, the wrasse is the way to go. But for me right now, it's easier to just dip. Thanks though.

This is a gross picture, but this is what happens to them when you hit them with flatworm exit. It's like they explode. Pretty gross!

http://www.pbase.com/ppphotography/image/73584021/original.jpg

ReefDoctorMicromussas
01/26/2007, 06:52 PM
Ya I had a BIG tank of zoos

MUCHO REEF
01/27/2007, 01:11 PM
WOW, I have to give you some props, those are the best pics of eggs and nudis that I have ever seen. Great job and glad you posted them.

FWE does not work on all nudis. That's a given from so many reefers I have spoken with. It seems that there are more than one type of these horrible nudis and unless you have the type that succumbs with FWE, all other preventive measures should be exercised.

Has anyone had greet success using the SGW for nudi eradication?

Mucho

ReefDoctorMicromussas
01/27/2007, 01:24 PM
As I listed above... my SGW totally solved my entire infestation within a day or two.. NOTHING else had worked... anyone who has large amounts of Zoos really should have one

chuy marquez
01/28/2007, 11:12 AM
I just tried to remove the eggs with some tweezer but they broke apart and scattered all over the tank. Will they die because they are no longer attached or did I just spread them all over the tank?

chuy marquez
01/28/2007, 11:12 AM
I just tried to remove the eggs with some tweezer but they broke apart and scattered all over the tank. Will they die because they are no longer attached or did I just spread them all over the tank?

mfinn
01/28/2007, 11:20 AM
My guess is that they will hatch.
You should remove the colony from the tank when you do that.
Hopefully the newly hatched nudi's will require food immediately after hatching and that they will be too far away from zoanthids to get proper food and will starve. ( this is wishfull thinking and pure speculation on my part).

So now you need to be extra watchfull for nudi's.

ellisz
01/28/2007, 02:43 PM
When I had issues, I would use a tooth brush to scrub the egg sacks off. This was after the FW/Lugols dip. After the scrubbing, I would rinse them in the FW again. It helps if you inspect them under actinic bulbs or a flash light with a blue filter. This made the egg sacks easier to see for me.

pperez
01/28/2007, 04:23 PM
Hey what about a blacklight? I wil try one tonight to see what i get. Maybe even take some cool pics, lol.

I dipped today in FW/Lugols/FE. I killed some of the biggest ones and i'm sure some of the newly hatched ones. I was hoping to flush out some small resident crabs as well, but no luck. I did leave them in longer than suggested, but they are starting to open back up slowly.

rocko918
03/12/2007, 10:56 AM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9089387#post9089387 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by doctor64776
As I listed above... my SGW totally solved my entire infestation within a day or two.. NOTHING else had worked... anyone who has large amounts of Zoos really should have one

Hey Doc, Have your had you SGW pick on any of your other corals? I see on blue zoo they say use with caution. What other corals do you have in that tank.


Thanks!

ReefDoctorMicromussas
03/12/2007, 11:32 AM
I have a mixed reef... He has NEVER attacked any coral EVER Lots of very high $$$ LPS But I no longer have any shrimp LOL .... he is an evil, torpedo like pest hunter Blue Zoo is where I got mine also they are great to deal with :)

rocko918
03/12/2007, 11:36 AM
So i should remove the shrimp if i can.

i am ordering from blue zoo this week

ReefDoctorMicromussas
03/12/2007, 11:49 AM
Nah the shrimp are a great "welcome to my tank" LOL :) When I first got mine he had white looking "injuries" on him I thought that maybe he was sick... A year later he still has the white marks so I think they are just him LOL You will have no more nudis when he finishes.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v207/doctor64776/DSC03311.jpg

Here he has "Clocked in " he is hard at work cleaning that Frag
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v207/doctor64776/DSC03312.jpg

Equal no more
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v207/doctor64776/DSC03325.jpg

rocko918
03/21/2007, 06:21 AM
Well I got 2 sea grass wrasses from blue zoo. 1, I was lucky enough to have a lfs q-tank it for me. The other I setup a 10 gal tank with some live rock, cheato and a small filter. I have been dropping nudis into the tank when I see them on my frags. I also dropped a frag of raspberry reds in the tank as well as there always seems to be a few on there. I have had the sgw since Thursday. He like to eat pellets, I wanted to make sure he was eating and healthy before I only feed him the nudis. He is much more active now, swims around the tank, looking for things to eat. Pretty friendly guy I might add. Last night I decided to shake the frag of raspberry's as I saw some nudis on it. I must have shook off 6 or 7 of them. I saw eggs all over it. So now I am breeding them in my 10 gallon. I watched them crawl all over the glass. It was great, well except the sgw did not even look at them. I will continue to watch him in hopes he changes his mind.

Do you think he will get along with a Melanurus wrasse in a 75?

ReefDoctorMicromussas
03/21/2007, 10:26 AM
Does he look like my wrasse? I have seen many people say "My SGW doesnt eat nudies" only to find they actually have some other type? maybe they need to be trained??? starve him? heck mine is evil to them, even plays with them before eating them... at least that was last year... I havent seen a nudi since about 1 week after I got him

rocko918
03/21/2007, 11:08 AM
Very similar but all green. I will have to take a pic of him tonight.

rocko918
03/22/2007, 06:06 PM
My SGW.

http://www.studiohbd.com/fishtanks/2007/02mar/sgw_01.jpg

ReefDoctorMicromussas
03/22/2007, 06:59 PM
YUP same look... different color... Yours is much prettier than mine... Is he eating Nudis yet?

rocko918
03/23/2007, 05:44 AM
not that i have seen him. The are on the glass and some of the rocks in the q-tank. I did not feed him at all yesterday. We shall see.

MUCHO REEF
03/23/2007, 06:24 AM
rocko918, just curious, who told you this fish is a SGW? It doesn't have rthe markings of a SGW, at least not from what I can see.

doctor64776, as I said on the first page, it's strange, some eat nudis and some don't. Not sure why.

Good luck to everyone.

Mucho

rocko918
03/23/2007, 06:26 AM
I ordered it from Blue Zoo as a sea grass wrasse. So all i can do is trust they sold me a sgw.

What markings should i be looking for?

MUCHO REEF
03/23/2007, 02:50 PM
I'm searching for a link I saved and will send it to your forthwith if I can find it.

Mucho

pdlgirl1972
03/23/2007, 03:19 PM
I purchased a SGW and it did nothing for a week then it went to town and looked very similar to the pictures above. I have been nudi free for over a year. The fish died after being in the tank for only six months, carpet surfing.

rocko918
03/23/2007, 05:37 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9552603#post9552603 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by MUCHO REEF
I'm searching for a link I saved and will send it to your forthwith if I can find it.

Mucho

great, if you find it i would love to read it.

rocko918
05/22/2007, 08:11 PM
Look at the color change on my SGW. see the post near the top. same fish just months later and in the main tank. Sad to say he/she has not helped my nudis problem.

http://studiohbd.com/fishtanks/2007/sgw_04.jpg

http://studiohbd.com/fishtanks/2007/sgw_05.jpg

ReefDoctorMicromussas
05/22/2007, 09:01 PM
Rocko That is definitly the SGW LoKKS exactally like mine :) You says yours does not eat nudis???

rocko918
05/23/2007, 05:52 AM
Either i have hundreds of nudis or he is not eating them, because i am pulling them out daily. Next process is to tear down the reef and put all the zoos in a q-tank. I can't get rid of them in the main tank.

bayreef
05/25/2007, 05:17 PM
i went thru this a few yrs back i tried treating then just pulled out almost all zoos treated the small pecies and they were gone. I am glad to hear some are having sucess with the sgw

weatherson
05/25/2007, 05:30 PM
I just want to reiterate that the addition of my Yellow Coris Wrasse decimated my tank's nudibranch population and can be seen regularly on the hunt within the zoanthid colonies.

Joseph.

rocko918
08/20/2007, 08:05 AM
good news is i have added a Yellow Coris Wrasse to both my systems and have not had the large population of nudis. I can not say they are gone but with a SGW and Yellow Coris Wrasse i think i should be good now.

The Yellow Coris Wrasse has been in the tank 3 weeks now.

HBtank
08/22/2007, 12:27 AM
I had a yellow wrasse clear my nudis out almost immediately.

mariowar
11/24/2007, 12:33 AM
I do not have corals, just live rock.

I just put one seagrass wrasse ( 3.5 inches) in my tank, and he is like crazy, burying himself in the sand, getting out, I guess trying to get some food. The drawback is that the water is cloudy......

Do you think he will eventually eat New Life Spectrum Pellets or similar? I am afraid he is not getting enough food.

How hardy is this fish?

I hope mine will not turn black.

Thanks

rocko918
11/24/2007, 08:54 AM
he/she will continue to make a mess. my SGR keeps knocking anything over that is on the sand bed. Always digging. The SGW is pretty much black as well. It used to be a awesome green but turned drak green / black as it got settled in.

My SGW eat pellets, flake and frozen foods. Try some flake first as it suppends in the water longer and stays in his vision longer. Once he is eating flakes try the pellets. IMHO it is not a hard fish to keep.

mariowar
11/24/2007, 11:37 AM
Mine is about 4 inches and has a very interesting behavior.

So you meant that your water is always cloudy? or you just meant that your wrasse is always rearranging the rocks.........

By the way, I thought he would get in a fight with my Cirrhilabrus solorensis but they are getting along.