SolaTubes for reef tanks [Archive] - Page 4 - Reef Central Online Community

Rod the Roofer

09/10/2006, 09:35 PM

Hi Guys and gals on the other side of the world!

Well there has been a lot of talking, planning and R & D, but I’ve finally done it!!

My dream was to have natural sunlight supplementing my Mh’s.

A bit of background:

I set up my 4’ 6” x 18” x 20” three years ago and have been keeping mainly stoneys. I ventured into the realm of SPS only a couple of years ago.

I have an Eheim 1260 main return pump and another 1260 closed loop giving me over ten times flow.

There are two sumps. In one I have live rock, caulerpa and heaps of pods. The other houses the return, heaters, auto top off (dosing Kalk) and the Turbofloater 1000. I also run a Calcium reactor.

I have two x 150w Mh pendants supplemented with actinic.

Here’s a pic ;

http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h231/Rod_the_Roofer/1035.jpg

After following various threads on skylights and natural lighting I decided to go for it!

My thought was that the extra light would be supplemental to the Mh’s and wouldn’t replace them. The tank was settled and mature and was already capable of supporting SPS.

Here’s a pic ;

http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h231/Rod_the_Roofer/007.jpg

Being a roofer I just happened to have a few skylights hanging around.
I joined two 2' x 2'8'' skylight frames together as I needed a long rectangle to suit the tank. Living in a high bush fire danger area I couldn’t use the domes (Plus I didn’t think I’d get enough light through them) so I discarded them and after much research ordered a sheet of 1/2" clear laminated glass to go on top.
Fortunately the roof faces north so it picks up max sun. (Equivalent of south facing for you guys)
I liked the idea of Solatube style tubes to bring the directed light right down to the tank and thought that three tubes alternating with the pendants would be good.
As you can see in the pic, my ceiling is raked so I had the added hassle of different length tubes. The shortest is 4' up to the longest at 5'6".
Another problem was that the Solatube tubes only come in 18" and 2' lengths that you stick together with tape, which I thought was going to look pretty ordinary inside the room.
The way I got around that was to give them a twin skin of HIP – high impact polystyrene.

Here are some pics of the install ;

http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h231/Rod_the_Roofer/1007.jpg

http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h231/Rod_the_Roofer/1008.jpg

http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h231/Rod_the_Roofer/1009.jpg

And here’s a pic of inside ;

http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h231/Rod_the_Roofer/1015-1.jpg

I had to re-think the actinic light issue as the old fittings were in the way of the tubes. So I suspended a 4’ just in front of the lights/tubes.
So I could still get into the tank I installed retractable suspension cables.

Here’s a pic of the tank with all lighting in place ;
(Just skylight, about 9am, no lights on)

http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h231/Rod_the_Roofer/1017-1.jpg

Here’s a pic of tubes and actinic, about 9.30am

http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h231/Rod_the_Roofer/1019.jpg

And all lights on, about 11.30am

http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h231/Rod_the_Roofer/1025.jpg

I purchased a light meter to check just how much I was getting. (Readings at 12 noon 10.9.06)

Under the 150 Mh – 150000 Lux (6" from lamp)
Under the skylight – 190000 Lux (6" from tube)
Outside in full sunshine – 160000 Lux

Observations so far :

Incredible natural dawn. (Mandarin and shrimp love it!)
Very natural fluctuations in light as clouds go overhead.
Amazing moon light.

Well that’s it!! I think that during summer I will probably be able to turn off the halides. During winter I will need them and during spring and autumn, we’ll wait and see.

Rod. :thumbsup:

Herpervet

09/10/2006, 10:28 PM

Wow! Now there is an awesome first post. Very clean job there. You made it look very professional. I wish I had that kind of talent for construction.

Here is a link to my tank. I have skylights and halides also.

I am sure I have posted pics to this thread in the past but a friend recently updated them for me.

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=8118722#post8118722

Rod the Roofer

09/11/2006, 02:33 AM

Thanks Herpervet,

I have been following this thread for some time now (Lurking) and I am very impressed with your tank.

In fact it was tanks on this very thread (and others in Aus.) that inspired me to launch into my own project.

As we are approaching our summer I'm very excited to see how the natural light will go.

So far I'm quite pleased with the amount of light, considering we've just come out of winter.

Rod. :thumbsup:

Hef

09/11/2006, 07:51 AM

Excellent, I'm sure that thread will motivate a lot of us (hopefully Me:) -
Under the 150 Mh – 150000 Lux (6" from lamp)
Under the skylight – 190000 Lux (6" from tube)
Outside in full sunshine – 160000 Lux

Dont know much about Lux - can you talk a little more about this? Are you saying the Skylight is actually brighter than the MH?

Rod the Roofer

09/11/2006, 08:16 AM

Thanks Hef,

I'm no expert on these matters but according to Wikipedia "Lux is a unit of illuminance. It is used in photometry as a measure of the intensity of light."

As Herpervet has mentioned, there is a focused spot of light from the tubes that moves with the sun. I measured this spot with the Lux Meter. To be fair, I measured the brightest spot under the Mh and got the best reading I could from the sun as well.

I measured the light readings at 12 noon and yes, the reading from the skylight was brighter than the Mh and indeed the sun outside. Earlier and later in the day the skylight was not as bright.

Hope this answers your question.

Rod. :thumbsup:

Hef

09/11/2006, 10:16 AM

Thanks, I would be interested in light readings for a few different times of the day if you get around to doing it.

Try to get us a photo of the tank with just natural light from the same angle and size as the other photos.

salty joe

09/11/2006, 11:58 AM

Rod,
Very nice looking tank.
Did you use low iron glass (the real clear stuff like Starfire brand) for the skylight?

Also, if you take lux readings at different times of day, could you measure both under the tube as well as outside?

As a side note, the light from any artificial source will drop off dramaticlly as the distance from the lamp increases. This is not a concern with sunlight. I think the formula is in one of Sanjay's articles on light.

hawaiianwargod

09/11/2006, 11:58 AM

Rod the Roofer,

Very nice work!!! Impressive. I probably implement solatubes next summer.

RGibson

09/11/2006, 03:44 PM

Ron very nice tank even if you have the sun facing the wrong way.

Lordhelmet

09/12/2006, 12:13 AM

I can't wait to get my own tank and do a solar tank.
i hope to se growth pics in a few months.

Rod the Roofer

09/12/2006, 01:01 AM

Thanks everyone for your encouragement.

Hef,

Here are some light readings during the day: (Please note today we had light whispy clouds)

10 am - skylight - 20 000 Lux
- outside - 130 000 Lux

11am - skylight - 95 000 Lux
- outside - 147 000 Lux

12noon - skylight – 150 000 Lux
- outside - 159 000 Lux

1pm - skylight – 130 000 Lux
- outside – 153 000 Lux
From 2pm more cloud rolled in and made it impossible to get any more meaningful readings.

It was interesting that today with light whispy clouds the reading from the sun at 12 noon was only slightly lower than two days ago, but the reading from the tubes was a fair bit lower.

Here is a shot of just natural sunlight at 12 noon:

http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h231/Rod_the_Roofer/1046.jpg

Salty joe,

I didn’t use Starfire glass, just standard clear glass.
It’s laminated as there are quite a few legal issues and codes to comply with for overhead glazing. It’s two sheets of ¼ inch glass (notice I’m using imperial for you?) with a .38mm laminate (couldn’t be bothered working that one out in imperial)

Also, as you have stated “the light from any artificial source will drop off dramatically as the distance from the lamp increases. This is not a concern with sunlight.”
This is correct and I did ponder what distance I should take my readings from. I settled for 6” (imperial again) from the lamps and the ends of the tubes. (Which is water level on my tank).

Also, here are the other links to threads that have inspired me that you asked for in your Email:

http://www.masa.asn.au/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=166313&highlight=

This link contains other links.

RGibson,

LOL, the main problem reefers have here in Australia is keeping water in our tanks as we are upside down as you know! Oh yeah, my name is Rod.

Rod. :thumbsup:

DgenR8

09/12/2006, 02:53 AM

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8126878#post8126878 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Rod the Roofer
LOL, the main problem reefers have here in Australia is keeping water in our tanks as we are upside down as you know!

:lmao:

hahnmeister

09/12/2006, 03:27 AM

FWIW, I did a skylight system for a 1500g reef tank in Chicago, and Velux Skylight Company was able to make laminate clear glass skylights for me... but thats as good as it gets, unless you can find an acrylic maker, but thats a whole other can of worms. Best of all, the Skylights (three of them 21" wide by 70" high) were laminate, so they are strong, and they cost no more than regular velux skylights.

Just for those who need to know. Sorry I cant post pics, hes a CEO and he cares not to have pics taken of whats inside his home. But I was lucky enough to help set it up and see it when I like. Who knows, maybe some day he'll want to show it off...

Airman

09/12/2006, 08:53 AM

Rod,
Welcome to Reef Central!

You have a great looking tank and I like the way your light tubes look. I believe you have a great mixture for lighting. If you start your own thread on RC about your tank PM me so I can subscribe to it.

salty joe

09/12/2006, 06:03 PM

Hey Rod,

I do appreciate the imperial units. So, what material is the .38mm laminate. And isn't there a name for a tenth of a millimeter? Just kidding.

I used to do nothing but roofing - you do nice work.

Joe

Rod the Roofer

09/13/2006, 06:29 AM

Hi Joe,

Good question. I believe it's like a sheet of plastic.

I'll have to enquire.

Thanks Airman,

I'm not up on subscribing to threads. Please explain.

Rod. :thumbsup:

BenjieC

09/13/2006, 09:05 AM

Right under the quick reply. to the right there is a "subscribe to this thread button" click on it and it will add it to your "My RC" that way can you find the thread easier.

WDLV

09/13/2006, 12:07 PM

This has been a great thread to read. It took me a while to find this one as RC has a wealth of information to sort through....

I am in the planning stages of a 2000-5000 gallon system; for which I just got permission from the better half to build as an addition to our next home! I plan to use solar light tubes as the main source of illumination. I'd like to keep all types of corals, anemones, reef safe and some not so reef safe fish in this system.

1. For those of you who are using these or have worked closely with those who are using these, would you recommend Sola Tubes over any other brand? If so why?

2. Must I absolutely use additional sources of light in the winter months or could the corals get by with the lower light and shorter photoperiods? (I live in Maryland.)

3. Have there been any heat issues that you think I need to plan for?

4. If I put them in multiple rows, are there any structural modifications I will need to make to the roof?

Thanks in advance!

salty joe

09/13/2006, 12:50 PM

I am in the planning stages of a 2000-5000 gallon system; for which I just got permission from the better half to build as an addition to our next home! I plan to use solar light tubes as the main source of illumination. I'd like to keep all types of corals, anemones, reef safe and some not so reef safe fish in this system.

WOW!! When is your next home gonne be?

4. If I put them in multiple rows, are there any structural modifications I will need to make to the roof?

Your roof trusses will probably be 24" on center. The large Sola Tube, 21" I believe, is made to go between that space. So I would have to say probably not. I would be concerned that they might shade each other if installed in a row.

WDLV

09/13/2006, 01:02 PM

Sorry Salty Joe. No eye candy any time soon. Tentatively I'm looking at 2 years. Sooner would be nice though.
Thanks for the info. I will have to do rows because of the width (8'.)
I was thinking the smaller tubes would be better???

hahnmeister

09/13/2006, 02:10 PM

In the case of skylights... the one I did, and some others I have seen, consist of making the skylight into a sola tube of sorts. The advantage of a single skylight over multiple sola tubes are....

1. less leaking. You are cutting one hole with 4- sides instead of multiple smaller holes.

2. more light. More glass. If you want you can get the skylight venting so you can let the humidity out easier.

3. less cost. A sola tube can be about $150-200. When you get into having 3 or more... you could have paid for just a single 2'x5' skylight... ventilating even!

But there are some disadvantages I found out as well.

4. Access to the tank. What you do for a skylight is make a shaft that goes down over the reef tank, and then line its interior with aluminum. This means one solid large box hanging from the ceiling that can be more difficult to mount other things (blue lights), or if this box hangs low over the tank... some elbow room restrictions. For those looking to completely hood the top of the reef though... removable panels come in handy here. Or, if the shaft is large enough, you can simply put the supplimental blue lights inside the shaft. In my case, since the skylight was so huge, we used a sheet of 1/4" blue plexi to tint the side skylights so supplimental blue light wasnt needed and there was still enough light. Some people just get a large enough skylight, and end the shaft a couple feet above the tank... letting the light spill into the area around the tank as well. This might not appeal to all, as it means the tank is now an open top... but it works...

5. you gotta build the box. Now, with the sola tubes, they are very narrow and long... this cuts down some of the light they pass through... but the light that does pass through is mostly going straight down like a spotlight. This is part of their appeal... they dont send tons of glaring light out to the sides. So with a large skylight, its sometimes a good idea to put in a gridwork of aluminum panels to turn that one large shaft into smaller shafts of light. Otherwise, as the sun moves, the light spread will not be even like a sola tube... but more intense at one side and less at another. This also cuts down on glare.

But on tanks over 500g, I would suggest skylights over solatubes.

WDLV

09/13/2006, 02:30 PM

As was mentioned earlier in this thread and in some others, the skylights don't get the rave reviews because of the tendancy of light to be lost due to the angle of the sun. I was really leaning toward the sun tubes for that reason. The other thing that concerns me is the size that a skylight would have to be for a system of this size. It may need to be as much as 20 feet long. That would pose a serious problem with structural integrity. I want a lot of depth and a lot of height.
Now a sun room that was in essence a half of a green house is an appealing option, but the heat issues and the fact that it would absolutely have to be a Southern exposure makes this option somewhat unlikely.
I'll quit here as I'm starting to go off topic. I thank you for your detailed response, but I am pretty sure that a skylight is not an option that will be practical for me.

salty joe

09/13/2006, 10:48 PM

Hey hahnmeister,

Since you have experience using skylights for reef tanks & I don’t, I wonder if you would be kind enough to share your insights & opinions.

I’ll be breaking ground in a month or so and a 475 gallon inwall is in the plan.

I plan on using two 48”x 48” homemade skylights. I am considering 3/16 or ¼ tempered low iron glass. Each skylight will be made from 3 sheets of glass that I’ll take to a glass shop to get a triple pane insulated panel. I’ll build the curbs and wrap them in aluminum gutter stock. Then, using high powered tri-polymer adhesive/sealant, I’ll glue the glass panel to the curb.

The roof the skylights will be on is only a 4/12 pitch. The optimum angle for solar panels in NE Ohio where I live is a lot steeper than that in the summer and steeper yet in the winter. So I’m thinking of building the curbs at the optimum angle for the winter. I think that would give me the most even year round light.

To deal with sunlight bouncing around and entering the tank at all kinds of crazy angles, I thought maybe using eggcrate on top of the tank. Maybe paint the eggcrate with blue Krylon Fusion.

For tank access I’ll bring the light tunnel all the way to the tank. About 2’ from the top of the tank, I’ll install a continuous horizontal hinge the width of the light tunnel.

I plan to install a small fan near the top of the light tunnel to deal with moisture.

Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

Joe

hahnmeister

09/14/2006, 02:00 AM

WetSleeves, you are correct about the light dispersion problems with skylights... thats why I came up with a gridwork reflector design. Think... extra large eggcrate made from aluminum that runs from the skylight down to the bottom of the shaft...

Like so...
http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/500/101919skylight3.JPG

It pretty much turns one large skylight into multiple sola-tubes. This would prolly help you as well Joe. My idea solved alot of control problems in Chicago... it was a little hard to figure out how to set up, but we decided to hang the thin sheets from extruded aluminum rods that made up the gridwork at the top... and the sheets just hung down and in place. You could even use mylar sheets, or whatever... the pieces just hang there like a curtain. I suppose that something lighter and more flexible would create intense shimmer lines as the breeze goes by as well.

As far as the angle of the skylight, you can get a curb mount to capture more light (increases the angle), but that might not look good outside. FWIW, that is one of the benefits of a dome skylight. You could check out a quality made acrylic done... it would be as clear if not better than starphire, and stronger (starphire is kinda brittle... I dont know if I would feel safe with it as a skylight). But also, considering the size of the skylight, I wouldnt worry about the amount of light lost... you will have plenty left over.

Two things I would consider... having the skylight venting, and sunblock shades. Sometimes, the light is too much, and in summer, nothing works as well as simply letting all that hot humid air straight up and out of the skylight. Sure, an insect screen might cut out some light... but who really needs the screen anyways(they are removable)? All those bugs are free food!!!

Rod the Roofer

09/14/2006, 06:01 AM

Hi guys, the voice from down under again.

There's some great ideas there!

I think that what all this shows is that there isn't a "one size fits all" solution to this.

Using natural sunlight over reef tanks obviously isn't an exact science. There are so many contributing factors to consider. Things like: Longitude and latitude, orientation of your house, trees and or any other objects that may/will cause shadows, pitch of roof, angle of skylight, size of tank, distance from ceiling to tank, distance from roof to ceiling, inhabitants in tank, depth of tank, other lighting etc.

I believe that everyones situation is probably different and we all need to research and try various things to suit our local scene. Oh well no-one said it was going to be easy. Thank goodness for forums like RC where we can all share info!

WetSleeves,

Quote: "For those of you who are using these or have worked closely with those who are using these, would you recommend Sola Tubes over any other brand? If so why?"

There are other brands on the market. I believe that they are all very similar. I actually used the "Skydome" brand. Why? Because I could get them cheaper through a trade supplier I deal with.

Also, IMO you will need supplimental lighting during the duller months of the year. I view my skylight as supplimental to the Mh's.

The amount of heat coming down my tubes is about equivalent to what you'd feel if you went outside and put your hand out and felt the sun on it. Negligible really, compared to the heat from a Mh.

hahnmeister,

IMO an "Open top" tank has the advantage of allowing excellent gas exchange over a lidded tank.

Rod. :thumbsup:

JMBoehling

09/14/2006, 07:59 AM

Completely agree with Rod... I have (02) 10" Gordan Brand (Home Depot Specials $) Tubes over my 90. I use (02) 48" T5HOS as supplimental light (01 Uvi Super Actinic & 01 Geissman Actinic Plus) and everything is growing well (Anemones, Rics, Zoas, SPS including Tort, Tricolors, Hoeki, Pocci, Stylo, Slimer, Tenuis, etc.)

I would think, (04) 20" tubes equally spaced on your 8' wide tank would be ample lighting, along with a (04) or (06) T5's strategically placed. I live in Richmond, VA, very close to Maryland... The sun is planty bright, even in the winter months to support SPS, with a little added PAR for punch with some small Halides or T5's...

You may want to visit Dr. Mac on the Eastern Shore and take a look at his tubes, sure he can give you some good advice as well..

Later,

Jim

Herpervet

09/14/2006, 08:15 AM

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8142308#post8142308 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by hahnmeister
WetSleeves, you are correct about the light dispersion problems with skylights... thats why I came up with a gridwork reflector design. Think... extra large eggcrate made from aluminum that runs from the skylight down to the bottom of the shaft...

Like so...
http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/500/101919skylight3.JPG

It pretty much turns one large skylight into multiple sola-tubes. This would prolly help you as well Joe. My idea solved alot of control problems in Chicago... it was a little hard to figure out how to set up, but we decided to hang the thin sheets from extruded aluminum rods that made up the gridwork at the top... and the sheets just hung down and in place. You could even use mylar sheets, or whatever... the pieces just hang there like a curtain. I suppose that something lighter and more flexible would create intense shimmer lines as the breeze goes by as well.

As far as the angle of the skylight, you can get a curb mount to capture more light (increases the angle), but that might not look good outside. FWIW, that is one of the benefits of a dome skylight. You could check out a quality made acrylic done... it would be as clear if not better than starphire, and stronger (starphire is kinda brittle... I dont know if I would feel safe with it as a skylight). But also, considering the size of the skylight, I wouldnt worry about the amount of light lost... you will have plenty left over.

Two things I would consider... having the skylight venting, and sunblock shades. Sometimes, the light is too much, and in summer, nothing works as well as simply letting all that hot humid air straight up and out of the skylight. Sure, an insect screen might cut out some light... but who really needs the screen anyways(they are removable)? All those bugs are free food!!!

I was going to post this very thing only I was thinking of using tubes instead.

Regular skylight domes then hang a cluster of tubes down the shaft.

salty joe

09/14/2006, 09:19 AM

It pretty much turns one large skylight into multiple sola-tubes. This would prolly help you as well Joe.

That's an outstanding idea! Thanks.

As far as the angle of the skylight, you can get a curb mount to capture more light (increases the angle), but that might not look good outside.

I know, but this is on the back of the house.

(starphire is kinda brittle... I dont know if I would feel safe with it as a skylight).

They make big fish tanks out of it, it must be pretty strong.

Joe

hahnmeister

09/14/2006, 02:12 PM

its strong, but not as strong as regular glass. Also, keep in mind that there are many types of strength with materials... hardness, elasticity, plasticity, ridgidity, etc. Glass might be harder to scratch than aluminum, but aluminum is less brittle when it comes to tensile strength. Starphire does not have iron in it like other glass, this makes it more brittle. Its strong, but its easier to damage with impact. Also, keep in mind that regular skylights are at least tempered that is anywhere from 4-8x stronger, and usually laminate... nobody uses just regular plate glass... its not strong enough, and it doesnt handle impact well. This is where plexiglass comes in, as well as laminate glass. I once saw a velux rep stand in the middle of a 3'x3' laminate skylight of theirs, and drop a bowling ball from 6'.... it bounced off the glass.

I would say starphire is 'over engineering' at this point. Most places simply use clear glass, and yes, it does block out certain percentages of light, but, its not like you are paying the electric bill on the sun, or are in short supply or anything. Plenty of greenhouses use clear laminate/tempered, and its just fine. Keep in mind that most corals arent even used to getting 1/4 the intensity of the sun at the water surface. A skylight alone is going to be loads of plenty. Remember, you are taking most of these corals from depths of 5-20meters, and placing them at 1m at most... so who cares if its not blazing tropical sun you have from that skylight. If you really want 'clear', I would strongly suggest Plexiglass, and that way, you cen get a bubble as well so that the sun doesnt deflect... that really would provide you with more light... not that you need it. lol. Or, you could wait a few more years and get clear aluminum skylights. Dont think its not coming, the military is already using clear aluminum in armored vehicle testing, and mass production is on its way as its already only about $10 per square inch (think about how much lexan was when it first came out for military use, and how quick the private sector picked up on it)

"IMO an "Open top" tank has the advantage of allowing excellent gas exchange over a lidded tank."

Rod.

Oh, Im with ya 100% there, it cools better, and I love the open top look.... but it comes at a price. Carpet surfing wrasses, higher room humidity, etc. All my tanks have been open top (some with a 6-8" parimeter wall around the top for keeping fish in), but with the recent add-on of central air, Im not willing to spend another $200 every month on cooling. Im my case, Im switching over to enclosed canopies with fans inside, as well as a 120cfm 4" duct sucking air from the canopy to the outside. Ill still get the great gas exchange, but with the outside, not my living room.

The same goes for some of these large tanks (and its why I suggested a venting skylight). I can barely stand my place with even just a couple hundred gallons of open saltwater... imagine having 1000g or more evaporating into your house! This is why I am all for enclosed tops/light shafts with these things... then you can simply vent the humid air to the outside. Less smell, less humidity and heat. And less carpet surfing. Finishing off a friends basement sump and frag vat room (6'x3' open top acrylic vat)recently by sealing it with FRP helped him take a $200 dent out of his electric bill since the reef humidity and heat wasnt adding to the main house's air. Open top is great... to a point.

WDLV

09/14/2006, 02:53 PM

Thanks to all of you who did and will answer the questions I posed. I have to drop off the face of the earth for a little while, but I'll be back in a couple weeks to review this awsome thread.

Hahnmeister,
Thanks for ellaborating.

JMBoehling,
I'd love to see your setup some time if you're willing to show it off. I drive to NC a couple times a year. I never have taken the treck to Dr Mac's.... It'll happen eventually.

hllywd

09/14/2006, 07:19 PM

hahnmeister,
The divided skylight is a great idea and should help minimize the light creap as the sun moves better than a regular skylight. This may be the best idea I've seen yet to get more light directed where it needs to be for longer periods through the day. I wonder what can be done to catch more light in the morning and afternoon (similar to the dome on the SolaTube).

Tim

hahnmeister

09/14/2006, 08:59 PM

Acrylic Domes.... they arent as common as they once were, and some dont like the way they look compared to the clean flat profile of glass (not that 4 20" domes on the roof are that much better I suppose), but the dome allows for less liight deflection.

Otherwise, I forgot to mention it, but a ventilating skylight would help in this respect. It removes the glass all together, so light will come in no matter what the angle. Now, be dure to check what kind of skylight you get, some open farther than others.

Rod the Roofer

09/15/2006, 02:10 AM

Hi guys,

Hey Salty joe,

When selecting glass for your skylight keep in mind that there are probably by-laws and building codes to comply with. That is if America is anything like Aus!! I couldn't go with anything except laminated and 12.38mm no less! (Sorry 1/2 inch)

Hey hahnmeister,

Agreed on the open top. I keep forgetting the size of your tanks over there is staggering. A big tank here would be 6 x 2 x 2. On a hot day I only lose about 5 Litres (Sorry 1.32 Gallons) and this is hardly noticeable in condensation etc. in my house.

Hey can't wait for the clear aluminum!!

Rod. :thumbsup:

Reefski's

09/15/2006, 08:10 AM

i just found this thread and haven't read each page yet! the ones i did read i didn't see any pictures. how about some pix of your setups with natural light?

i have been searching for a while to find the right glazing material so i can build my own skylight shaft over my 4x8 foot tank.

most acrylics and glass block the UV. Anthony Calfo says UV is very important for our corals.

i have finally found a glazing material to use that is used on tanning beds and animal enclosures where UV is important that transmits >80% of the UV.

you can read about it here.

http://www.spartech.com/polycast/solacryl.html

now i am looking for big sheets, 4x8, of the aluminum that the light tubes are made from. any sources?

Herpervet

09/15/2006, 09:54 AM

There are plenty of nice pic's a few pages back.

Let us know what you find out about the glazing material. It's a great idea but it may end up pretty pricey( although it might still end up worth the cost in the end. )

The other issue is the esthetics. Natural light looks nice esp. mid-day but you don't get the same colors as you do with good actinic supplementation which is why I ended up supplementing actinic.

Reefski's

09/15/2006, 10:32 AM

4x8 sheet 1/8" $199
1/4" $299

i may supplement with some T5's or pendant type 20k MH.

i hope to set up the tank while doing the construction on our major remodel so it can be cycling for months while building the rest of the house around it. while it is running while building i can measure the PAR values over a long time period of the year.

hahnmeister

09/15/2006, 01:01 PM

"i have finally found a glazing material to use that is used on tanning beds and animal enclosures where UV is important that transmits >80% of the UV."

... or, you simply leave the skylight open... Velux even makes ones that you can leave open 24/7, and when it starts to rain, the sensors close the unit for you. So you can leave it open over night, or when you are gone. Besides... a little rain water is nothing more than 'top off' water, right?!

There are 3 types of UV, of them, C is deadly but taken care of up in the atmosphere, B is so-so but causes cancer in humans, and A is beneficial in small amounts (can also cause damage in large enough amounts). FWIW, regular glass only absorbs/blocks the C and B mostly, and lets some A through anyways. Unless you get LoE glass, you will still get a good amount of UV through the glass. And considering how much water blocks these frequencies anyways, and the shallow depth that you will keep them at in your tank at home in comparison, I wouldnt worry about the corals getting enough UV.

http://www.liveaquaria.com/general/general.cfm?general_pagesid=274&js_enabled=0

Also, keep in mind that if you use any sort of supplimental blue/actinic lighting, you will be providing loads of UV-A from these bulbs anyways.

With the 'Chicago' tank, we were going to use 4x1000 watt 20,000K halides for blue supplimentation... but the amounts of other spectrums that these bulbs put out hardly makes them qualify as 'supplimental', and so the blue looked washed out when I tried my 1000watt CoralVue 20,000K over it. We decided to go with supplimental T5s instead. The blue+ and actinic T5s have a much narrower output (more blue, less of other spectrums) The tank itself is 8'x8' or 64 square feet, so a gridwork of T5s was done in a way that minimal natural daylight was blocked. So far, 48 4' T5s are hanging over the tank so far, but then the blue film was added to the skylight and we havent needed the T5s yet. Maybe this winter...

hahnmeister

09/15/2006, 01:01 PM

hahnmeister

09/15/2006, 01:01 PM

Rod the Roofer

09/15/2006, 09:52 PM

I'm with you hahnmeister,

Quote:

"There are 3 types of UV, of them, C is deadly but taken care of up in the atmosphere, B is so-so but causes cancer in humans, and A is beneficial in small amounts (can also cause damage in large enough amounts). FWIW, regular glass only absorbs/blocks the C and B mostly, and lets some A through anyways. Unless you get LoE glass, you will still get a good amount of UV through the glass. And considering how much water blocks these frequencies anyways, and the shallow depth that you will keep them at in your tank at home in comparison, I wouldnt worry about the corals getting enough UV."

I have checked with the supplier of my glass and they said it blocks "harmful" UV rays and lets through some useful UV.

Quote:

"Also, keep in mind that if you use any sort of supplimental blue/actinic lighting, you will be providing loads of UV-A from these bulbs anyways."

I like most Aquarists provide supplimental actinic lighting.

Rod.

:thumbsup:

hahnmeister

09/16/2006, 01:38 AM

Well, even most halides make a good deal of UV-A (DE and SE).... if you stare at them long enough they can cause eye problems. Im just saying, I dont think we have to get too worries about providing enough of certain spectrums to corals with skylights... theres plenty enough to go around of just about every spectrum so who cares if the glass blocks 10% or something...

Reefski's

09/16/2006, 10:53 AM

glass transmits about 70% UV
normal acrylic 44%

Reefski's

09/16/2006, 11:26 AM

here is a link to the article with this info.

http://www.rosesinc.org/ICFG/Join_ICFG/2002%20-%2003/Greenhouse_Glazing.asp

hahnmeister

09/16/2006, 12:23 PM

That sounds good. I wonder what the absorbtion of water is... I doubt that levels higher than that can get through water that is 5-25' deep... where most of our corals come from.

JMBoehling

09/17/2006, 02:50 PM

Here are some links to movies of my reef. One is of my 90 gallon reef conisting of (02) 10 Gordan Brand Tubular Skylights and (02) 54 watt T5HO's.

Jim's Skylights on Reef (http://s71.photobucket.com/albums/i122/JMBoehling/?action=view&current=noon.flv)

Here is another movie of my Skylightoscopy... Camera lucking up the tube during sun this afternoon.. Sorry to make you guys a little dizzy, but is gives you an idea of the light coming down the tubes.

Skylightoscopy (http://s71.photobucket.com/albums/i122/JMBoehling/?action=view&current=Tubeoscopy.flv)

Hope this gives everyone a good idea of what these things produce. Personally, I wish I had the 20" tubes vs the 10's...

Later,

Jim

shookbrad

09/17/2006, 02:57 PM

Nice, Thanks for the videos!

Rod the Roofer

09/18/2006, 02:32 AM

Cool camera work Jim.

Hey, have you taken any light readings from your tubes??

Be interesting to compare with my readings. So far I have measured Lux, but am organising to borrow a quantum meter so I can get some PAR readings.

Rod. :thumbsup:

Hey shookbrad,

That's my avatar!! Only joking, actually I can't have my avatar (A blue/pink Acro) untill I post 100 posts!! - That's dumb IMO.

Reefski's

09/18/2006, 02:20 PM

here are some pix from the 5,500 gallon Waikiki aquarium with a large skylight over it. you can see the sunlight coming across the tank in one of the Monti cap pix.http://http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l58/reefski/th_waikiki-top-view-monti-cap.jpg (http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l58/reefski/waikiki-top-view-monti-cap.jpg)

http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l58/reefski/th_waikiki-top-view-monti-cap.jpg (http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l58/reefski/waikiki-top-view-monti-cap.jpg)
http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l58/reefski/th_waikiki-top-view-delbeek.jpg (http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l58/reefski/waikiki-top-view-delbeek.jpg)
http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l58/reefski/th_waikiki-tank-clams-anemones.jpg (http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l58/reefski/waikiki-tank-clams-anemones.jpg)
http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l58/reefski/th_waikiki-reef-tank-top-view.jpg (http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l58/reefski/waikiki-reef-tank-top-view.jpg)
http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l58/reefski/th_waikiki--montipora-cap3.jpg (http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l58/reefski/waikiki--montipora-cap3.jpg)
http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l58/reefski/th_waikiki--montipora-cap.jpg (http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l58/reefski/waikiki--montipora-cap.jpg)
http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l58/reefski/th_waikiki-fish.jpg (http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l58/reefski/waikiki-fish.jpg)
http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l58/reefski/th_waikiki-beam-skylight.jpg (http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l58/reefski/waikiki-beam-skylight.jpg)
http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l58/reefski/th_waikiki1.jpg (http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l58/reefski/waikiki1.jpg)

Reefski's

09/18/2006, 03:05 PM

Mr. Delbeek, author of "The Reef Aquarium" told me that they do water changes of 10% per month ftom an underground well. they use a 10HP chiller to maintain the water at 77 degrees. nitrates <5ppm with a SSB. and they feed the fish a couple times a day, i forget what but not just a couple of cubes.

the sunlight is full on the tank from about 11-3 and supplemented by 5-6000 watts of MH. 10k and 20k. as you can see in one of the pictures the light is very far over the tank but they do leave the MH on even during peak sun hours.

they get phenomenal growth. the Monti cap has grown to the size you see from a single 5" colony in less than 3 years, same for the Staghorn Acro.

the most amazing tank i have ever seen. worlds oldest clams in captivity, >25 years and 650 pounds.

Rod the Roofer

09/19/2006, 03:10 AM

Hey carloskoi,

Now that's inspirational!!!

:spin3: :spin1: :spin3:

Rod. :thumbsup:

SuperNerd

09/19/2006, 04:01 AM

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=3338146#post3338146 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Scuba_Dave
Herpervert, where are you located?

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=3338461#post3338461 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Herpervet
El Paso, Texas.

...and although I'm sure I've been called worse (and answered to it) its HerperVET. Not HerPERVERT.;)

:lmao:

cbl

09/21/2006, 12:09 AM

I also posted a thread a couple of weeks ago wondering if anyone had any exper with natural lighting so thank you for your exp and info.. I did find one tank in PA that a gentleman has some light shutes over half his tank and mh on the other half and he claims a huge difference in growth rates comparatively... I also live in co and have been looking into some different light shute options here but havnt heard of these solatubes before.. can you give any insight into cost???? Keep me posted as well and I too would like to see some photos sometime if poss
thaks

cbl

09/21/2006, 12:09 AM

cbl

09/21/2006, 12:09 AM

cbl

09/21/2006, 12:19 AM

I also live in co and posted a note a few weeks back looking for someone with some exp with natural light so thanks for the info.. I did find a guy in pa that has some over half his tank and mh on the other half.. interesting to hear the diff in growth rates. any feedback on cost for the solatubes????

cbl

09/21/2006, 12:47 AM

sorry about above...computer(operator error...)

cbl

09/21/2006, 12:58 AM

I also have been looking into this and recently posted a thread as well on natural light options. thanks for all the insight. any info on approx cost of tubes? I did find a guy in pa using light shutes with some interesting results compared with the other half of his tank being MH

hahnmeister

09/21/2006, 01:09 AM

Ok, you say that there were dramatic differences... so which one was better!!!?? Halide or Sun?

polyniak

10/24/2006, 12:04 AM

This thread is 4yrs 9mths old it can't die now.......We need new pics and updates

hawaiianwargod

10/24/2006, 02:07 AM

polyniak
[welcome]

JMBoehling

10/24/2006, 10:50 AM

Updated Shots as of 10/24/2006:

Everything continues to grow very well under my T5 and my (02) 10" Skylights

http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i122/JMBoehling/PA220019Small.jpg

http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i122/JMBoehling/PA220020Small.jpg

http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i122/JMBoehling/PA220021Small.jpg

http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i122/JMBoehling/PA220021Small.jpg

http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i122/JMBoehling/PA220007Small.jpg

http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i122/JMBoehling/PA220005Small.jpg

http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i122/JMBoehling/PA220004Small.jpg

JMBoehling

10/24/2006, 10:53 AM

A couple more:

http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i122/JMBoehling/PA220008Small.jpg

http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i122/JMBoehling/PA220009Small.jpg

http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i122/JMBoehling/PA220011Small.jpg

http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i122/JMBoehling/PA220014Small.jpg

http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i122/JMBoehling/PA220017Small.jpg

http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i122/JMBoehling/PA220013Small.jpg

Later,

Jim

hawaiianwargod

10/24/2006, 03:46 PM

Jim,

Awesome setup and growth you have. I guess solatubes is very promising huh? As I said on this thread before, I will incorporate solatubes on my system in the near future.
Again, very impressive growth and color!!!
Thanks for sharing your thoughts and pics.
HW

polyniak

10/24/2006, 05:38 PM

Thanks for the update your tank looks great :p

Rod the Roofer

10/25/2006, 03:23 AM

Hi guys,

Been a while, I'm very impressed with the progress of my tank under natural light.

Here are a couple of shots for you:

#1http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h231/Rod_the_Roofer/1048a.jpg

#2http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h231/Rod_the_Roofer/2064a.jpg

#3http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h231/Rod_the_Roofer/1001a.jpg

#4http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h231/Rod_the_Roofer/2066a.jpg

Enjoy Rod. :thumbsup:

hawaiianwargod

10/25/2006, 11:10 AM

Rod,

Those pics are insane!!! Which camera are you using?
Very nice!!!

WDLV

10/25/2006, 11:36 AM

Rod,
Got any full tank shots?

Rod the Roofer

10/26/2006, 06:28 AM

Thanks guys,

Hey hawaiianwargod, I'm using a Canon 350D (Rebel XT I think you call it) with a Canon 100mm Macro lens.

Here's a couple more for you:

#1http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h231/Rod_the_Roofer/1025a.jpg

#2http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h231/Rod_the_Roofer/1080a.jpg

#3http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h231/Rod_the_Roofer/1008a.jpg

#4http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h231/Rod_the_Roofer/2040a.jpg

Hi WetSleeves, here's a full tank shot (unfortunately it is with my old camera, but it does show my Solatubes - this pic is just ntural light):

#5http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h231/Rod_the_Roofer/1046c.jpg

I'll try to take some with my new camera soon.........

Rod. :thumbsup:

dougie

10/26/2006, 07:28 AM

absolutly beautiful!!! :thumbsup: And a Aussie tank!!!!!!

Future Tank of the month for sure!!!

Cheers.

WDLV

10/26/2006, 09:05 AM

Thanks for sharing Rod. It looks great!

hawaiianwargod

10/26/2006, 11:40 AM

Simply amazing!!! The color of your anemone is out of this world! Thanks again Rod.

WDLV

10/26/2006, 11:47 AM

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8419385#post8419385 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by hawaiianwargod
Simply amazing!!! The color of your anemone is out of this world! Thanks again Rod.

Anemone???

hawaiianwargod

10/26/2006, 08:21 PM

I thought it was an anemone...is that plate coral ie goni?
My bad!!!

Rod the Roofer

10/27/2006, 02:01 AM

Hey guys,

Thanks very much for your kind comments.

Just for the record:

#1 is Catalaphylia

#2 is Fungia

#3 is Fungia

#4 is Tridacna maxima

Rod. :thumbsup:

hawaiianwargod

10/27/2006, 03:10 AM

Got you loud and clear Rod. Thanks again.

AuroraDave

10/27/2006, 09:57 AM

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8404382#post8404382 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by JMBoehling
Updated Shots as of 10/24/2006:

Everything continues to grow very well under my T5 and my (02) 10" Skylights

How did you attach your frags to the back glass of your tank?

JMBoehling

10/27/2006, 11:53 AM

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8425867#post8425867 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by AuroraDave
How did you attach your frags to the back glass of your tank?

I am using these

frag-mags (http://www.aqua-mags.com/)

Later,

Jim

AuroraDave

10/27/2006, 12:09 PM

Thanks Jim. I've never seen them before.

What is the material that is glued to the back of the frag made out of?
Is it some type of metal so you can use a magnet on the outside of the glass to hold it in place?

I like the idea that you can twist and move your frags.

WDLV

10/27/2006, 12:29 PM

What an interesting product.... I can think of a few uses off the top of my head.

Do they seem like they'll be able to support the weight when the frag grows into a large colony?

JMBoehling

10/27/2006, 12:35 PM

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8426627#post8426627 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by AuroraDave
Thanks Jim. I've never seen them before.

What is the material that is glued to the back of the frag made out of?
Is it some type of metal so you can use a magnet on the outside of the glass to hold it in place?

I like the idea that you can twist and move your frags.

The Frag Plug side is Black Aragonite. I use Super Glue Gel for small frags, and the D&D Two-Part Epoxy for larger pieces like my Hammers and Forgspawn :)

The cool thing is I can move my SPS away from my LT Amenone and other SPS as they grow. I also was recently infested with Monti Nudi's and It made life easy to remove all of them for treating.

AuroraDave

10/27/2006, 12:40 PM

Is it a magnet (frag-mags) and if so, do they use metal (which seems bad in salt tanks) ?

Or maybe it's suction cup?
I cant tell from the pics. Great idea for sure.

BenjieC

10/27/2006, 02:52 PM

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8426498#post8426498 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by JMBoehling
I am using these

frag-mags (http://www.aqua-mags.com/)

Later,

Jim

I just ordered some. Like most thing in this hobby they are a little pricey, but they look very cool! There's a thread over in the DIY forum that was started about DIY ones, that I'm following. Hopefully they'll be cheap and easy to DIY.

BenjieC

10/27/2006, 02:54 PM

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8426840#post8426840 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by AuroraDave
Is it a magnet (frag-mags) and if so, do they use metal (which seems bad in salt tanks) ?

Or maybe it's suction cup?
I cant tell from the pics. Great idea for sure.

As far as I can tell it's a magnet encased in some sort of plastic.

JMBoehling

10/27/2006, 03:02 PM

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8426840#post8426840 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by AuroraDave
Is it a magnet (frag-mags) and if so, do they use metal (which seems bad in salt tanks) ?

Or maybe it's suction cup?
I cant tell from the pics. Great idea for sure.

The outer shell is about 1/8" Plastic. Within the outer shell the magnets are fully encased in what appears to be silicone or some sort of epoxy... Both side have magnets in them and they are very strong.

Rod the Roofer

10/27/2006, 07:33 PM

Hey Jim

Great idea,

I think as your SPS grow they will eventually cover the frag mags and continue onto the wall of your aquarium.

I guess by then you'll have them in thier ideal position.

Rod. :thumbsup:

JMBoehling

10/27/2006, 10:19 PM

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8429258#post8429258 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Rod the Roofer
Hey Jim

Great idea,

I think as your SPS grow they will eventually cover the frag mags and continue onto the wall of your aquarium.

I guess by then you'll have them in thier ideal position.

Rod. :thumbsup:

That's my dream.. An entire live reef in my 90 on all 3 sides with open space and no live rock in the middle for my fish to swim.... I think it will look pretty awesome in 6 months or so...

Appreciate it Rod! Your reef is looking awesome!

Rod the Roofer

10/28/2006, 12:26 AM

Agreed!!

I believe your tank will look fantastic!!

It is a very different strategy to the normal rock scape.

Rod. :thumbsup:

kureinha

11/08/2006, 02:24 PM

I came across a few active daylighting options which may give you even more light per opening. They are essentially a sky light with a mirror tracking system. It seems there are a couple of different options. I think all of them used a tracking system that runs off a photovoltaic so no electricity is necessary. Not sure if it would work well in cloudy conditions.

option 1
http://www.soluminaire.com/product.html or
http://natures-lighting.com/products.php?pid=2100

option 2
http://www.daylighting.com/active_daylighting.htm

option 3
http://www.sunflowercorp.biz/P061Final.pdf

Might be something to consider... I apologize if this was mentioned earlier.

hahnmeister

11/08/2006, 07:11 PM

OMG, with 49,000-111,000 lux depending on the time of day... even a cloudy day would produce more light than a 400watt halide!! 4' tall tank, here I come!!!

I wonder what a 3'x3' unit (or there about) would cost...

WDLV

11/08/2006, 08:37 PM

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8506115#post8506115 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by hahnmeister
OMG, with 49,000-111,000 lux depending on the time of day... even a cloudy day would produce more light than a 400watt halide!! 4' tall tank, here I come!!!

I wonder what a 3'x3' unit (or there about) would cost...

No doubt. Those are pretty cool. I wanted to do a >5' deep tank for my next system. What would one pay for such a tasty nugget of technology?

Rod the Roofer

11/09/2006, 05:00 AM

Here's a couple of updated tank pics, with my new camera;

Left :
http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h231/Rod_the_Roofer/2049c.jpg

Center :
http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h231/Rod_the_Roofer/2050c.jpg

Right :
http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h231/Rod_the_Roofer/2052c.jpg

Full tank :
http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h231/Rod_the_Roofer/2087a.jpg

Rod. :thumbsup:

dougie

11/09/2006, 07:59 AM

Stunning.

WDLV

11/09/2006, 09:02 AM

Looks great Rod.

Airman

11/09/2006, 01:25 PM

Your tank is solid! :) How are your solatubes working?

Lordhelmet

11/09/2006, 08:21 PM

I love your tank.

I also was wondering how much one of those solor trackers would run.

Rod the Roofer

11/10/2006, 08:37 PM

Thanks everyone for your encouraging comments.

My corals have responded to the natural light and after a bit of acclimating have started coloring up and growing as I've never seen them grow!

Some of them bleached a little until they re-acclimated, but seem ok now. The Catalaphyllia spat it but is doing well now.

The light is intense from about 11am to 3pm. Not long enough photo period IMO to reduce the Mh's yet, probably will during summer.

How have tanks with natural light gone over summer in your hemisphere?? As my skylight has only been operational for a short period, and not a summer I would be interested.

Rod. :thumbsup:

JMBoehling

11/12/2006, 04:56 PM

Question for all you using skylights:

Would there be an advantage and or disadvantage to removing the factory made dome that has a UV inhibitor and replacing it with a piece of clear acrylic sheet? I understand the dome "Captures the Sun Rays" that would normally wouldn't be channeled down the tube of the skylight if simply flat...

Any thoughts?

I am considering doing a little science project on my reef. I have (02) tubes on mine, so I am thinking about removing the dome on one an measuring growth and color of similiar species over a 6 month time frame to see if the dome promotes growth or restricts it. What material should I use on my skylight that will not inhibit the UV rays of the sun and will still maintain the structural integrity of the dome against snow, heavy wind and hail?

Thanks,

Jim

Rod the Roofer

11/12/2006, 05:43 PM

Hi Jim,

From what I have read and understand; with the dome you will get more light channelled down your tubes earlier and later in the day. With a flat top (as I have) you will get less light early and late, but more intense light (than a dome) during the middle of the day.

I am getting very intense light between 11am and 3pm at the moment.

I have used laminated glass, primarily because I live in a high bush fire area and the plastic domes would melt in a fire. I have been told that glass inhibits the damaging UV, whilst allowing the beneficial UV rays to pass.

Something that I have been watching with interest in the news here lately is that they are saying the coral on the Great Barrier Reef are bleaching and dying from the suns harmful rays. (due to climate change) They are talking about putting shade cloth over the reef!!

Have you been able to switch off your artificial lights at any time during the day through summer?

Rod. :thumbsup:

hahnmeister

11/13/2006, 01:46 AM

you know, I dont think one of those light trackers would be worth it... a normal skylight should have a long enough, and intense enough output for any reef.

Lordhelmet

11/14/2006, 01:48 AM

i think for a deep tank grater then 5 feet those tracker would be worth it if they really have an output equal to 1000watts of MH. if not i bet the cost is not worth it and solatubes would be the answer.

brent waldron

11/21/2006, 12:48 AM

I was wondering about the UV filters in the solatubes. Someone mentioned earlier about removing these, but didn't give any details or instructions. Is the filter in the bottom of the sola tube or up in the dome. Any insight would be apprec.

brent waldron

11/21/2006, 12:48 AM

brent waldron

11/21/2006, 12:49 AM

sorry about the double post!!

wmfsoll2

11/22/2006, 03:41 AM

Great Idea!

Bill.

brent waldron

11/22/2006, 03:49 AM

Jim, keep me posted on your thoughts..just ordered 3 solatubes (14") for a 475 gallon viewable from all sides. was also wondering about the dome and uv filter. will be installing in three weeks..........

Reefski's

11/22/2006, 07:26 AM

i need up to about 300 sq ft of the polished aluminum the reflectors are made from to line my skylight shaft. where can i get it in 4x8 sheets?

JMBoehling

11/22/2006, 07:59 AM

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8598249#post8598249 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by brent waldron
Jim, keep me posted on your thoughts..just ordered 3 solatubes (14") for a 475 gallon viewable from all sides. was also wondering about the dome and uv filter. will be installing in three weeks..........

Brent,

I removed my "Gordan Brand" domes last week and replaced with Non-UV inhibiting plexiglass. I will keep you updated on how things go. So far, no immediate negative effects on my SPS and softies.. My anemone, hammers and frogspawn look incredibly good when the sun rises in the day, so I may be on to something...

Hope you enjoy your Tubes!

Later,

Jim

brent waldron

11/22/2006, 09:41 AM

thanks Jim..... how about the ends of your tubes ( I think there is a filter there also???) I remember some removing this and leaving the ends of the tubes open ( I can't remember if that was you or not) also, where did you get your plexiglass ( home depot???) did you go from dome shaped tp flat????????? thanks in advance!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

wazbot

11/22/2006, 11:32 AM

Its been a while since I posted, but there are some photo's of my solatube tanks at www.ozreef.org in the gallery under Warren's Tank.

I have had to install 4 x 150W metal halides to get me through the winter months, but other wise everything is going really well.

Solatubes Rock!

Cheers

JMBoehling

11/22/2006, 12:27 PM

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8598863#post8598863 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by brent waldron
thanks Jim..... how about the ends of your tubes ( I think there is a filter there also???) I remember some removing this and leaving the ends of the tubes open ( I can't remember if that was you or not) also, where did you get your plexiglass ( home depot???) did you go from dome shaped tp flat????????? thanks in advance!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I left the bottoms open..No light diverter.. one thing I did notice when I changed out my domes for the flat plexiglass is how dirty the reflective tunnel has gotten. I imagine the constant warm condensation coupled with dust, etc coats these things pretty quick. You may want to put a clear glass or acrylic cover over yours just to keep the dirt from entering, etc...

brent waldron

11/22/2006, 01:14 PM

thanks jim. I appreciate your time and feedback, and keep us informed.

H20ENG

11/22/2006, 08:07 PM

carloskoi,
Talk to a sheet metal shop local to you and ask for 95% reflective aluminum. Alanod is one brand that I know of.

Rod the Roofer

12/01/2006, 02:46 AM

OK, well I've done it!

Today's the first day of summer here and I've turned off my Mh's!

Well, not entirely. I've re-scheduled them to come on at 4pm and 4.30pm respectively.

Today is quite an overcast day, so probably not a good indication of how the tank will look, but let's face it they have dull days on the reef too.

Now I'll sit back and count the savings in electricity and on those hot days not worry so much about heat from lights.

Rod. :thumbsup:

staticx

12/03/2006, 09:07 AM

Funny thread the guy that started it works for solar tube hes a sales rep. Nice way to market your product though.

staticx

12/03/2006, 09:07 AM

Funny thread the guy that started it works for solar tube hes a sales rep. Nice way to market your product though.

BenjieC

12/03/2006, 09:18 AM

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8668986#post8668986 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by staticx
Funny thread the guy that started it works for solar tube hes a sales rep. Nice way to market your product though.

How do you know that?

JMBoehling

12/03/2006, 09:33 AM

If they really want to market there product they should create a dome Reef specific, that doesn't block the UVA and B's our SPS and organisms receive on the Reef.

You will find most of us using Tubular Skylights are using other brands than just SolarTubes... I'm using the Home Depot knock off brand.

reefdna

12/03/2006, 11:29 AM

"Funny thread the guy that started it works for solar tube hes a sales rep. Nice way to market your product though."

Funny website the people that started it sell and trade their own corals. What a way to market their product. [said sarcastically]

WHAT?!!! I mean seriously even if he was or is a sales rep for solatube, if he has a product that can save me money on my electric bill and give me the right light output and he wants to start a thread to see if there is any interest, then I encourage him to do so. Truth be told if you read through the posts most people who have experimented with this have not been buying from him personally. Why would you want to interrupt an informative thread with retoric like that?

WDLV

12/03/2006, 06:09 PM

I started typing that same thought this morning, but figured it might just be me. I'm glad someone else said it. It's kinda like driving a stick shift.... Be sure the brain is engaged before putting the mouth into gear.

:blown:

BenjieC

12/03/2006, 08:58 PM

This staticx guy is a person who had boards cut at a home depot and then had the audacity to complain enough to the store manager to return them. He is stupid enough to post said story in the DIY forum and totally get flamed for it for obvious reasons. So, I think he just likes p*ssing people off. I'm not sure I'd believe him he told me the sky was blue. LOL!

Rod the Roofer

12/04/2006, 02:22 AM

Hey staticx,

FYI my tubes are "Skydome" brand. IMO better than "Solatube".

Rod. :thumbsup:

staticx

12/04/2006, 05:01 AM

Great, sound like they work really good. I just thought it was funny that a guy who is a sales rep for solar tubes started this thread and then left.

jrandreassen

12/13/2006, 02:02 AM

Hi...
I find this thread perticularly intresting.
I've been thinking about putting in some Tubes over my tank and was wondering wether it would work.
The tank is 60"x36"x30" (36 deep), it situated perpendicular to the wall, and is under a vaulted cealing. The surface is about 60" from the ceiling.
Opinions would be appriciated.
JR
I was thinking about putting in a couple of 21" tubes that would have about 6' run. Then I'd supplement with attinics or perhaps later LED's when they become available in the proper configuration.

hahnmeister

12/13/2006, 04:41 AM

It should work fine... 60" from the ceiling isnt that bad even. Then suppliment with blue+ T5s rather than actinics... they do a much better job.

jrandreassen

12/13/2006, 11:10 AM

Hi...
Ahhh yes...
That was what I was thinking, just came out wrong.... :)
Any pros/cons to the different brands designs ??
Appriciate the input..
JR

hahnmeister

12/13/2006, 01:08 PM

Dont get me wrong... there are better ones and worse ones, but for the most part, every one is very similar, and the end result, even with a small 14" diameter tube, is a light output that rivals 400watt halides. Due to your 5' height, the larger diameter tubes might be more of a bonus, but considering you are in Austin Texas, I wouldnt worry too much. You will prolly have a light output of a 1000watter in summer with those things. I would think that maybe only 2 tubes would be enough, but perhaps 3 is a good idea just to spread out the light more.

jrandreassen

12/13/2006, 01:18 PM

Cool...
I don't think I can do more than 2x21" given the location and the clearance in the attic, besides the battle with the "better-half".
I tried a new approach with her though...
The "What do you think about addiding some skylights ?"
And
"How do we make it fit in with the look of the livin room?"
Maybe I'll have more success with that one :)

My main goal in this is to reduce the $200/month increase in the utility bill. I'm hoping that taking out the 2x250W MH's will do the trick.

Now, anyone want to by some nice new Gisemann pendants ??
JR

brent waldron

12/14/2006, 01:13 AM

jr, I am currently cutting holes to place 3 14" tubes above a 500 gallon ( 36" deep) tank. I am planning on modifying the dome in order to remove the uv filtered dome as well as leaving the bottom open after removing the other uv filter. Am planning on putting 320 watts blue
t 5s to supplement ( may need more later....we'll see)

brent

jrandreassen

12/14/2006, 01:47 AM

Cool...
Let me know how it turn out.
I was talking to the SunPipe guy today. He indicated I need a difuser. How do you guy's think that will affect the growth.
(I can't bring the pipes all the way down[Vaulted celing 60"clearance], and the light will wander too much to be effective).
Anyways, in Austin, TX we get plenty of Sun so I think 2x 21" should do the trick ??
JR

hahnmeister

12/14/2006, 04:17 AM

Does he really know what you are doing with it? I would not consider a diffuser to be a good idea FWIW... they 'defocus' the light, or scatter it... and what you really want is more of a spotlight. A lens would be a better idea, or none at all.

wazbot

12/14/2006, 07:56 AM

No diffuser,

I can't remember if I put this one up...

http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f20/warrenerraw/DSCF6457.jpg

its been a while since this photo...I'll put up another soon.

:rollface:

brent waldron

12/14/2006, 09:21 AM

jr, did I miss how far above the water your planning on putting these?? ( You mentioned you have 60" total clearance.....right)

salty joe

12/14/2006, 09:55 AM

Brent, is your tank 36" deep front to back or 36" deep top to bottom?

jrandreassen

12/14/2006, 10:39 AM

The Tank is 36" deep, the ceiling is vaulted and is 60" above the surface.
My problem is that the wife won't let me mess with the symetry of the room and bring a box/hood down.
JR

jrandreassen

12/14/2006, 10:44 AM

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8748556#post8748556 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by hahnmeister
Does he really know what you are doing with it? I would not consider a diffuser to be a good idea FWIW... they 'defocus' the light, or scatter it... and what you really want is more of a spotlight. A lens would be a better idea, or none at all.

I did tell him that it was for an aquarium.
He said that if I didn't put a difuser on the light would wander arround the room. The light would exit at the same angle as it entered.
I asked him about a foocusing lens, but they don't have it.
Do any of you know ??
JR

brent waldron

12/15/2006, 01:52 AM

salty joe, the tank is 36 " deep from top to bottom... JR,,, I don't have an answer for you.. but it seems like as hahnmeister mentioned you would need to somehow concentrate your beam ( not diffuse ) if the end of your tube is 60 in above the water surface. Maybe you have some different options with other tubes???? not much help sorry!!!!

hahnmeister

12/15/2006, 02:59 AM

Just do it like wazbot did, even if your ceilings are a good 6' taller you should still get a similar result, esp with 22" cylinders.... you are in Austin, TX after all.... you might end up putting blue filters over parts of the tubes anyways...lol.

wazbot

12/15/2006, 08:28 AM

i have been told it looks very 'architectural'...go figure :D

jrandreassen

12/15/2006, 11:06 AM

Ahhh yes...
I'll have to work the "architectural" angle with the better half.
We'll see how it goes.
Thanks for the input...
JR

hahnmeister

12/16/2006, 02:36 AM

Hey, just say its very 'green'... that get my woman every time.

jrandreassen

12/16/2006, 02:46 AM

"Super-Green"...
I'm a bit of a tree-hugger myself, but it's more about efficiency.
I love a clever mechanical solution to a technical problem....

Maybe it will work.
JR

Rod the Roofer

12/16/2006, 02:59 AM

Hey JR,

Check out my pics on page 31. I have vaulted ceilings and is 60'' above the water surface. I brought 3 x 10" tubes down to about 6" above the surface on my 4' x 20" x 18".

Rod. :thumbsup:

jrandreassen

12/16/2006, 03:11 AM

Hi Rod...
I LIKE IT...

I might be able to work something like that...
The only problem is the living room is white walls,
Limestone and some not so nice orange painted wood.
(Might have to change that) Anyways, it might be doabe...
Thanks
JR

Rod the Roofer

12/16/2006, 04:50 AM

Thanks JR,

You can get the HIP sheets in white too. Might help.

Rod. :thumbsup:

hahnmeister

12/16/2006, 04:51 AM

Yeah, if you just painted the tubes the same color as the wall behind, I think they would blend right in... better than a canopy or fixture at least... thats for sure.

jrandreassen

12/16/2006, 11:58 AM

Hmmm....
These things might be doable...
I'll have to find a way to work them in to the discussion.
I'll show her the pictures of your "Tube covers"...

The painting would work, but I'm a little painting averse.
JR

Reefski's

12/24/2006, 12:51 PM

i will be building a skylight shaft over my new tank and lining it with one of these products.

http://anomet.com/cgi-bin/online/storepro.php

up to 97% reflective. some of the best reflectors are made from this.

Carl

jrandreassen

12/25/2006, 09:38 AM

That looks intresting.
What are you doing for the collector on top ??
JR

Reefski's

12/25/2006, 10:34 AM

for my skylight the city demands a skylight with all the right approvals for safety, etc. so i am using a 4x8 single glazed clear acrylic skylight. it will be an opening model so it may be open much of the time.

Carl

jrandreassen

12/25/2006, 11:39 AM

I take it that your roof is oriented towards the afternoon sun??
Or are you empoying reflectors ??
Just wondering, not criticizing
JR

Scuba_Dave

12/25/2006, 12:31 PM

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8763252#post8763252 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Rod the Roofer
Hey JR,

Check out my pics on page 31. I have vaulted ceilings and is 60'' above the water surface. I brought 3 x 10" tubes down to about 6" above the surface on my 4' x 20" x 18".
Rod. :thumbsup:

I'm glad I checked back in on this thread
Rod, That's a great idea on the skylight. I have an 8' 325g tank & was considering putting in 3 solar tubes
But I didn't like the idea of (3) domes on the roof

I think the idea of 1-2 skylights that are used for the tubes a much better idea. I haven't even started building the addition that will house the tank

Really glad a "salesman" started this thread :lol:
Geez, what a comment

jrandreassen

12/25/2006, 01:30 PM

[i]
Really glad a "salesman" started this thread :lol:
Geez, what a comment [/B]

Indeed....
Who care's as long as it works... :)
JR

Barto

12/25/2006, 01:38 PM

Dave,
How did you escape from the lounge?
Did someone leave the secret door to the 5th floor unlocked :lol:

JMBoehling

01/20/2007, 02:38 PM

Well, the sun is now at its lowest angle, and starting to head back up. Still get some natural light of which is very evident by my hammers, frogspawn and anemone. When the sun comes up, they really extend for the UV..

Here are some pics. I still believe in the Solartube/T5 combo..

http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i122/JMBoehling/P1190018Small.jpg

http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i122/JMBoehling/P1190016Small.jpg

http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i122/JMBoehling/P1190014Small.jpg

http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i122/JMBoehling/P1190011Small.jpg

http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i122/JMBoehling/P1190006Small.jpg

Later,

Jim

ReefBuddha

01/20/2007, 02:42 PM

Reefkeepers are responsible for so much wasted energy.

in an industry that is far from sustainable and eats up much more energy and resources than it produces, its nice to see someone trying to reduce their impact. kudos!

tariqchaudhry

01/20/2007, 10:11 PM

Jim,
Your tank looks awesome. I am glad you are having great results with the Solatube.
We are getting ready to build our home in Florida and I will be using Solatubes for my 300G tank. I am all for conservation and will do everything possible to minimize the impact on the natural resources.
Any suggestions for the size of Solatube for a tank size 72x24Hx30D? How high up from the tank surface and the use of UV shields etc.
I would appreciate your input.

JMBoehling

01/20/2007, 10:39 PM

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9032062#post9032062 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by tariqchaudhry
Jim,
Your tank looks awesome. I am glad you are having great results with the Solatube.
We are getting ready to build our home in Florida and I will be using Solatubes for my 300G tank. I am all for conservation and will do everything possible to minimize the impact on the natural resources.
Any suggestions for the size of Solatube for a tank size 72x24Hx30D? How high up from the tank surface and the use of UV shields etc.
I would appreciate your input.

Thanks! I've got (02) 10" Gordan Tubular Skylights (Home Depot Special) on my 90, with (04) 54 Watt T5's as supplimental light, and to get that 14 K look I really like...

About 3 months ago, I removed the "Dome" that came with my tubes and replaced it with Non-UV inhibiting Plexiglass... I believe my SPS and softies have benefited from removing the dome. I am not certain you really will need any UV inhibitors for your setup as well... Just my opinion :)

Assuming you can work with the larger tubes with your trusses etc, I would look at using the 18" tubes and probably no less than 3 spaced evenly at 18"-36"- 54"

My tubes come within 1 foot of my water surface and spread approximately 2 feet when the sun is really shining, so I get great coverage with the (02) 10" tubes on my 90...

Look forward to seeign some pics of your seup in the coming months.

Later,

Jim

Scuba_Dave

01/20/2007, 10:43 PM

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9029404#post9029404 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by ReefBuddha
Reefkeepers are responsible for so much wasted energy.

You should see Christmas display then if you think a tank is a waste of energy

jrandreassen

01/21/2007, 01:52 AM

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9032062#post9032062 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by tariqchaudhry
Jim,
We are getting ready to build our home in Florida and I will be using Solatubes for my 300G tank. I am all for conservation and will do everything possible to minimize the impact on the natural resources.
Any suggestions for the size of Solatube for a tank size 72x24Hx30D? How high up from the tank surface and the use of UV shields etc.
I would appreciate your input.

I've got a 60x36hx30W and will be using 2x21" down to about 2' from the surface (That's poking down about 3' down from a vaulted ceiling).
"Rod the Roofer" in Australia has a config like that(a few pages back) and it looks nice.
Depending on your tank config, I'd either use 3x21" or the 18" depending what works with your attic/tank config.
JR

wvt9527

01/22/2007, 08:55 PM

Ok I have read a little bit of this thread. Everything I have read so far sounds like this is the way to go. The things I am wondering about is do the solartubes cause more algae growth, has anyone notice an increase in water temperature. The final thing is the cost of all of it.
Walter

Barto

01/22/2007, 09:14 PM

I have also wondered about the cost comparison.
I'd have to think that with the price of MH fixtures and bulbs that need regular replacement and the whirring of the elect meter when the MH's are running, it should be a long term cost savings and if you are able to install the sola tubes yourself, in the short term it would be pretty close in terms of the up front costs. Add an installation contractor into the cost equasion and any up front savings go out the window or up the hole in the roof. :lol:

Now that I've speculated, has anyone crunched the numbers?
Thanks,
Bart

Rod the Roofer

01/23/2007, 02:12 AM

Hi Walter,

Solatubes do not cause algal growth. Problem algae needs two things to survive, nutrient and light. If you take away one it simply can't live.

I have seen successfull tanks in glass houses and in windows of houses. (Where temp. may be an issue) Control the nutrient and you will control the algae.

Also Solatubes do not increase the water temperature. As stated earlier in this thead, if you put your hand under the tube the heat is negligible. If you put your hand under a Mh you need to be carefull as you can give yourself a nasty burn!

Hi Bart,

IMO it's not a question of comparing the cost of Mh's vs. Solatubes. I believe both are required (Mh's supplimenting the tubes or tubes supplimenting the Mh's) I know in my case and others that I know the tubes were not enough on thier own and had to be supplimented with artificial light. Having said that, I believe the installation of any form of natural lighting over your tank is a very beneficial thing. You wont believe the natural dawn, the moon light is awesome and the extra light is simply stunning!! (My tubes hve been compared with 1000w Mh's)

Rod. :thumbsup:

hahnmeister

01/23/2007, 02:39 AM

Considering the sola-tubes are designed as a DIY kit, their cost is minimal... its the $120-250 cost of the tube (10"-22"). Now, the cost of a halide is much more per unit (for the sake of the argument, well say that a single sola-tube is capable of replacing a 250watt-400watt halide), and the long term costs are where the sola-tubes really pay off.

At $.10/kwh, a 250wattDE light, which runs over 300watts mind you, 8 hours per day, 365 days a year... thats 876kw, or $88 a year, per 250watt bulb. Lets say you have two, and they are 400s.... thats about 450 wattsx2, for a total of $262 per year.

So the electric alone can pay for itself within the year.

I also dont believe in using halides with the solatubes. Even in Chicago, a natural lit 1500g gets enough light in winter for the corals to grow just fine. The only suppliment, if anything, is an array of almost 30 54wattT5 tubes sporting actinic and blue+ bulbs. I think that this is a much better supplimentation than halide, as it has just blue/purple in the output, and doesnt add all the daylight spectrums that even the bluest halides still have in their output.

wvt9527

01/23/2007, 08:09 PM

Thanks Rod & hahnmeister for your input.
The thing I am most concern about is the up front cost.
I am planning on remodeling my house at the end of the summer & I was wondering about how much the cost of everything would be.
I do plan on DIY with the tubes.

hahnmeister

01/23/2007, 09:14 PM

One thing to keep in min is that if you are looking at more than 3 tubes, a skylight might make more sense. Considering the cost of one large Velux can be less than 2 or 3 sola-tubes, you might come out ahead by using a skylight and then making a shaft for it lined with aluminum.

Also, I did a special order with Velux for this on a skylight series. They can make regular glass skylights... non Lo-E, to let more light through. They are cheaper than regular skylights even, and just as strong. Sorry, no Starphire glass though...lol. If you want even more clarity, you are going to have to use plexi/acrylic skylights.

wvt9527

01/23/2007, 10:04 PM

What I am thinking is a flat skylight that faces south with 3 solartubes as it is only a 180 gallon.
I dont think Starphire would be a good choice as it has low iron in the glass. Dont know how well it would hold up if something hit it.
How often do you have to clean the glass on the outside?
I do plan on sealing the tube with glass at both ends.

tariqchaudhry

01/23/2007, 10:23 PM

Hello again,
I am a bit confused about Solatubes and U.V lighting.
In common reef practice, M.Halides have U.V proection shields, for obvious reasons. However some people in the forum are talking about modifying the Solatube to get more U.V light for the corals. Any thoughts?

hahnmeister

01/23/2007, 11:13 PM

Halides, even the 250wattDEs with a sheild, still pass a good amount of UV through the sheild. Which type is the major concern.

UV-C or short wave UV is bad, in any amount or duration. It kills, it burns, but luckily, its also the easiest to filter out. Most glass filters, even non Lo-E, block UV-C.

UV-A is the closest to purple, also called long wave UV. Its almost in the visible spectrum, and is actually considered a benefit for most corals. Some actinic bulbs like the G-man true actinic03, put out levels of UV-A to help coral growth and pigmentation.

UV-B is 'so-so'. In moderation its alright, and it does filter out in water rather fast, so its usefulness is doubtful. In humans, it causes our pigments to fill in and give us a tan, but in large amounts it can kill like UV-C, or at least cause cancer. Crocea clams are perhaps the only organism I can see benefiting from UV-B.

Most lamps that have a significant actinic output also put out UV-A, and UV-A passes through glass sheilds rather easily. UV-C is made by unsheilded halides and merc-vapor lamps, so it needs to be filtered. These filters dont block out as much of the UV-A though.

As for UV-B, there just isnt much out there. Its the middle ground of the two extremes in almost every respect. A true actinic03 bulb might have a slight UV-B output, but in such small amounts it prolly doenst even penetrate more than an inch of water. And even in low amounts... there is little out there to suggest its even that bad.

Rod the Roofer

01/24/2007, 02:32 AM

Hey Walter,

Check out my pics on page 31, I have a flat skylight that faces north (your equivalent of south) with 3 solartubes bringing the light down to about 6 inches above the water.

I haven't needed to clean the glass yet, it seems to stay reasonably clean just with rain washing it.

Rod. :thumbsup:

tariqchaudhry

01/24/2007, 11:38 AM

Thanks "hahnmeister" for the excellent explanation about U.V's

rickyjai8

01/24/2007, 06:54 PM

does any one in nyc is using this ?

wvt9527

01/24/2007, 09:03 PM

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9059846#post9059846 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Rod the Roofer
Hey Walter,

Check out my pics on page 31, I have a flat skylight that faces north (your equivalent of south) with 3 solartubes bringing the light down to about 6 inches above the water.

I haven't needed to clean the glass yet, it seems to stay reasonably clean just with rain washing it.

Rod. :thumbsup:

Rod those pics are what have me inspired go with solartubes.

Walter

miatawnt2b

01/25/2007, 02:53 PM

interesting indeed. Is there anything you need to modify with the stock Home Depot models to make them effective? like changing glass or leaving out UV shields?
-J

hahnmeister

01/25/2007, 06:26 PM

IF the unit has some sort of LoE coating, see if you can get it in clear instead. Regular glass blocks almost all UV-C if the atmosphere hasnt already completely (the higher the UV-C levels, the thicker the glass needs to be to block it all out, but we get relative low levels at the earth's surface), and LoE is there to block the rest. You can let UV-B and UV-A in though. The UV-A will help pigments, and UV-B will get absorbed by the top layers of water so its not a problem.

billsreef

02/15/2007, 03:16 PM

Test.

AJT

02/15/2007, 03:31 PM

Anyone else getting multiple emails from this thread? Poster hllywd??

hllywd

02/15/2007, 03:33 PM

SolaTube.com states their standard dome passes .03% of the available UV. I doubt you're getting a tan with that. The light then has to pass through the diffuser, my guess is that brings it even closer to 0%.

Tim

hllywd

02/15/2007, 03:36 PM

From me???

billsreef

02/15/2007, 03:46 PM

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9249807#post9249807 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by hllywd
From me???

The thread was apparently stuck and not taking your post, but sending out notifications that you posted anyway. It's an odd software glitch with large threads. I've fixed it for now.

reef_research

02/15/2007, 03:47 PM

I don't know if this has already been addressed here, but could someone direct me to where I might find information pertaining to the coordinate ranges for effectiveness when using the solatubes.

Ie; How far away can you get away from the equator and still have this work w/ out supplementals?

Just some points if you happen to know:

Connecticut (unlikely, but if not, please post)

North Carolina

Florida

Puerto Rico

Thank you,

hllywd

02/15/2007, 05:38 PM

I'm in NW Ohio. IMO the one I have in the dining room would need suppliments if it was over a tank from late fall to early spring. In the summer it can be very intense. It would still be wise to have the supliments for cloudy days here even in the summer.

Tim

reef_research

02/15/2007, 05:48 PM

What do you use for supplementation lighting?

Thank you.

robcropper

02/17/2007, 02:32 AM

thats crazy

zeusfc

02/17/2007, 04:15 AM

I've read all 38 pages... and i'm hooked! I first heard about Sunpipe about ten years ago, when a neighbour strarted installing them back in the UK, and straight away I saw the potential, but couldn't work out how to retro them into our house... I'm now out in Cyprus, (only 34 degrees north!) and we're looking at buying and renovating a flat-roofed "village" house. the main drawback is that being in an earthquake zone, all the windows are small, so the properties are dark... i'm now set on a couple of "clusters" of 10" tubes, one in the center of the room, one over a 30" square 24" deep tank.

This is probably the most inspirational thread I've ever read! It's going to be a couple of years 'till I'm up and running... I reckon as more and more reefers get into this, this thread will still be going!

g3ka4

04/07/2007, 11:29 AM

bump

DouglasTiede

04/08/2007, 12:24 PM

I looked into this about 3 years ago, it wasn't practical for me since
my tank sat in front of two huge windows to begin with.
( my tank also was on the main floor of a 2 story house. )
I did consider the possibilities of putting one in the wall of a southern exposed side.

The other drawback I face is that I live in Wisconsin and sunny days are few. ( ahh the benefits of living near the great lakes.. )

DouglasTiede

04/08/2007, 12:24 PM

sorry a tripple post..

DouglasTiede

04/08/2007, 12:24 PM

...

chris wright

04/09/2007, 09:35 AM

G'day all,

Ive just caught up on this thread.

wazbot, I remember seeing your tank on ozreef and was wondering how it was going, Ive been a bit lazy in looking at masa site but I see its going great.

Rod and Jim beautiful set ups you blokes have, I have a fish only tank set up in front of a north facing window, love the shimmer i get (t5's are not noticible for light untill late in the evening), and i have 4 different macro algaes that are thriving.

hahnmeister, Ive built skylights on different jobs, not for use over aquariums though, and loved the idea of it. Just wondering with the design you posted earlier, do you keep the hole skylight at 1 size or would you recommend a small hood on the bottom to flare out the light a little.

When i build my new house and get a tank set up, ill be using tubes or a skylight and will post pics. Ill be setting mine up in 2 sections. 1 will be on the east and 1 on the west, just 1 to start with to see how it works out.

herostar

05/06/2007, 11:34 PM

Has anyone done tests with light meters to see how much intensity is lost from the roof to the outlet of the tube?

How much light is lost through the length of tube? How does a 20 ft tube work compared to an 8 ft tube?

zeusfc

05/07/2007, 12:48 AM

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9891307#post9891307 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by herostar
Has anyone done tests with light meters to see how much intensity is lost from the roof to the outlet of the tube?

Yup, It's all in here somewhere... you've only got 38 pages to troll through!

corbett_n

05/08/2007, 10:09 AM

Does an eco-wheel not harbor nitrates

corbett_n

05/08/2007, 10:10 AM

Doe an eco-wheel not harbor nitrates

zeusfc

05/09/2007, 12:14 AM

yes eco-wheels will generate nitrates... but isn't this ever so slightly irrelevant in a thread about sola-tubes???

Mohamed

06/14/2007, 03:45 AM

I have read this thread and now I am planning to building a 3m * 1m * 1m (118.11 * 39.37 * 39.37 inch) reef tank using skylight tube and holding 3000L (659G).

The biggest skylight is 450mm (+-18 inch), I am thinking of using 3 and removing the diffuser and replacing it with a .5mm (0.20inch) acrylic or less.

I have a few questions for those that have done this.

Would 3 tubes be fine?

Would the height of the tank be okay and can I go lower if need be to maybe 85cm (33.46 inch)?

Very important to me how was the coral acclimatise to the sunlight without bleaching?

How low from the surface of the water must the tube be I am thinking 40cm (15.74 inch)?

Reading the thread some of you have removed the dome on the top, to what benefit was this?

The diffuser was also removed I can understand why but was there any damage to the tube and has anyone replace the diffuser with a thin acrylic?

Another question the tank will be out of concrete. Can someone please point me to a thread or site that has the explanation on how to do this?

thanks

hahnmeister

06/17/2007, 04:16 AM

3 22" tubes would cut it. You would still want to add some supplimental light, for blue... like a few rows of T5s... and that would fill in as well as bring up the whole tank to the light levels you need.

Mohamed

06/18/2007, 02:50 AM

Hahnmeister, thanks for responding.

My understanding is that the blues are just to see the florescent colours so I am looking at LED lights or some PC lights which are quite bright and low watts.

hahnmeister

06/18/2007, 04:25 AM

No, the blues have a peak at the 450nm range (blue light). Actinics have a spike at 420nm (purple), but purple is much harder to make than blue, so as a consequence, the blues are often 50-100% brighter (in fact, the blue+ style bulbs rival many daylight T5s in output and longevity... they are great bulbs).

You can get the same bulb in PC (they make blue/7100K/450nm bulbs as they are labelled, but the output of PC's is about 1/3 that of T5s per watt because T5s are about 50% more efficient, but also allow for individual parabolic reflectors that are very effective.

LED's are also not very efficient at all, and I wouldnt consider them either.

There are 20,000K halides you could use a backup, but as halides, even with a huge blue spike, the bluest of halides will still put out lots of daylight, and so the effect isnt very effective.

The T5s are the best bet really. On a tank in Chicago, 1500g, 8x8x3' high, we used 4 bulb banks of T5s to suppliment the daylight of a 4x4 skylight. It worked out very well.

Mohamed

06/19/2007, 01:52 AM

Thanks for the explanation, hahnmeister, I appreciate it.

hahnmeister

06/19/2007, 03:38 AM

Sure, glad to help.

Jimsreef

08/26/2007, 06:19 PM

What size tube do I need to light a 4 foot by 18 inch by 12 inch deep tank. Is the sun tunnel brand a good one to by they have 10 inch 14 inch and 22 inch sizes available. Jim

hahnmeister

08/27/2007, 03:41 AM

A couple of the 10" ones should be plenty.

Reefski's

08/27/2007, 07:44 AM

i would use the 14". as many as you can get over the tank, and even beyond the edge. standard framing is 16" between joists so the 14" fit without any reframing except to cut the holes.

Hanmeister, any pics of the 1500 gallon. that would be great to see how it turned out. how long ago was it set up? i would love to see more info.

Carl

Lordhelmet

08/27/2007, 03:08 PM

any updated pics from the people with sun powered tanks? I love this thread.

hahnmeister

08/27/2007, 04:33 PM

Gosh, I havent been down to Chigago recently to take pics... I should. FWIW, Bill Wann's old tank should be about the same. Its in the same city/area, same gallonage, and about the same skylight even. FWIW, they are nearly identical applications. His tank was TOTM a while back. The only thing different would be that Bill supplimented his skylight with an automated halide array that would swing down and turn on with the flick of a switch. My design was to have a 8'x8' tank with a 6'x6' area of skylights, and then line the 12" parimeter with blue T5 bulbs. As of right now, there are 48 T5 bulbs in use (36 are blue+, the rest are actinic). The owner says he loves it, but I havent been down there in a while. Ill have to go see I suppose.

I was kind of putting it off in hopes that Bill Wann's setup would be completed some time soon, and maybe I could go down and see them both at the same time.

glassbox-design

08/28/2007, 05:19 PM

hahn, who set up the 1500g?

Reefski's

08/28/2007, 06:46 PM

http://forum.marinedepot.com/Topic70159-13-1.aspx is a link to my tank i am starting.

700 gallon with skylight over the tank.

you can see the skylight here.

<a href="http://photobucket.com" target="_blank"><img src="http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l58/reefski/DSC03776.jpg" border="0" alt="Photo Sharing and Video Hosting at Photobucket"></a>

the skylight shaft is the same footprint as the tank and has been lined with anolux.com highly reflective material. 87% refective and good reflection in the UV. the skylight itself is opening single glazed acrylic which will pass 94% light and i think about 50-60% UV.

<a href="http://photobucket.com" target="_blank"><img src="http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l58/reefski/DSC03638.jpg" border="0" alt="Photo Sharing and Video Hosting at Photobucket"></a>

the tank is only on the stand now and i will start plumbing soon to let it run with sand and rock while the house is completed around the tank. next year it will get the livestock. PAR values will be measured as time passes. right now sunny days at what will be the water surface are about 1450 with some higher values occasionally.

PAR is measured with an Apogee PAR light meter.

you can see a few more photos on the other thread.

Carl

hahnmeister

08/28/2007, 07:00 PM

1450 is very high... but I take it that thats the peak level... so the rest of the day is most likely less... then its actually pretty natural. Cool. One thing though... you may want to carry the 'grid' aluminum, as in the large cross-pieces inside the shaft, all the way from the top to the bottom of the shaft. Thats how I ended up doing it.

Jimsreef, the reason I say 10" is because larger ones are pretty much equal to 400 watt halides in output, which you dont need. You need spread for such a low tank... a frag style tank. So thats why I said perhaps a couple or few smaller tubes rather than the larger ones... but with come creative diffuser work, or simply ending the light shaft farther up above the tank, you could get a good spread with just using a larger tube or two.

As for the 1500g in Chi-town... its a CEO buddy of the woman's folks. Not a member here or any other club. I designed the tank and its systems, and a chicago contractor handled the actual installation. I was present at the tank construction and plumbing (I actually did the plumbing myself for the most part).

token

08/28/2007, 07:18 PM

I am very interested in applying this to a third tank that I intend to add the first part of next year. I am currently remodeling so now is the time to plan this addition to the roof.

I wonder how much supplemental light I would need and came across this (http://www.bbc.co.uk/weather/world/city_guides/results.shtml?tt=TT002730) link for Manila's weather. I was really surprised how much average daylight Manila receives. Dallas seems to be at least equal (http://www.rssweather.com/climate/Texas/Dallas-Fort%20Worth/) in amount even if that light is more seasonally variable due to its distance from the equator.

Am I reading this info incorrectly? Do the tropics really "enjoy" that much cloud cover? If so, how might it alter the application of natural sunlight to our captive reefs?

I notice that the results from using natural sunlight are obvious and tremendous but I do note that many have opted for supplemental lighting. I begin to wonder, so that I can plan appropriately, what the break point is.

TIA!

And kudos to those that have already trod this path! :thumbsup:

hahnmeister

08/28/2007, 07:33 PM

Keep in mind that most corals come from 5-30m deep...these areas have hardly the peak intensity of the surface, so unless you are keeping shallow water species (very rare in the hobby), the sunlight in even the northern states is enough because its not going through the same water depths.

The idea for supplimental lighting is because sunlight will be very yellow unless you have 10' or so of water to filter it through to get it bluer. So to suppliment all the yellow, red, green, etc... adding blue and actinic bulbs is what I did with T5s. Others have used 20,000K halides in the past, but watt for watt, the T5s generate more blue light without creating even more daylight which isnt needed.

token

08/28/2007, 07:54 PM

hahnmeister: Thank you for that clarification on the reasons behind the supplementation.

I have been considering how to incorporate spotlight MH's, similar to invicible's. I would need to go into the particulars of the remodel but it suffices to say that I can "skirt" the perimeter of the tank at ceiling level and hide the enclosure for the spots in that skirt. My assessment is that the height of the skirt above the perimeter of the tank would allow the loss of area to compensated by light spread as it comes through the skylight, allowing total coverage of the tank's surface.

My immediate concern is that I am getting enough blue into the system. I had thought to use spots on the three visible sides but I could do spots on the two short sides (the ends, if you will) and T5's on the long sides.

The tank will be somewhere in the range of 60-72"w x 24-32"t x 32-36"d. At the moment, I would prefer that it be four-sided but I may clip the corners and make it six-sided to facilitate ingress to a doorway and allowing the larger dimensions.

Thoughts?

Reefski's

08/28/2007, 08:02 PM

yes, the 1450 PAR was in the middle of the day. but because of the reflected light those values stay high for hours during the day.

when the sun was directly down the shaft at the summer solstice coupled with the reflected light it was actually more than 2000 PAR, i don't know how much more as the meter stops at 2000 PAR.

however it is cool the way the sun moves around the shaft and lights the tank. should get a more natural growth than the point source of MH.

i am not going to decide how much additional lighting to add until i can measure the natural light over a few months. i definitely will have additional lighting if only for winter and evening viewing.

the tropics is tropical because it rains a lot which means that there is cloud cover a lot. sometimes for weeks at a time.

here in Los Angeles we have a lot of sunny days. near the beach where i am we do have more days that have at least morning clouds but that means we don't have the extremes of heat and cold too, even compared to other parts of SoCal.

Carl

glassbox-design

08/29/2007, 03:18 PM

sorry ot- hahn did he happen to have a fowlr and reef in his office years back...the reef powered by a huge aerofoamer? (if you cant tell i forgot his name)

any pics? i'm guessing he's out in the burbs?

carlos- 1400+ par is impressive. you may want to look into blue g12 spot halides used for stage lighting...

hahnmeister

08/29/2007, 06:03 PM

Flint&Eric, Yeah... like 500-800 gallons if I remember correctly. Dont know about the Aerofoamer though. You never know. Thanks to the shedd, aquariums are a thriving industry in Chi-town, and always will be most likely. He's actually not in in the burbs.

As for supplimental blue... I would still strongly suggest T5s over halides. blue+ style T5s can make blue, and little to nothing else. Even the bluest 20,000Ks still add alot of daylight.

glassbox-design

08/30/2007, 11:39 AM

the shedd?.... ehhh, perhaps :lol:

hahn, have you seen the blue mh's running for stage lighting or the like? they are far from 20k and make xm's and radiums looks white in comparison. even with that i'd still suggest t5's too. with such a large area it would take a lot spots...

hahnmeister

08/30/2007, 02:06 PM

I dont know if those are true stage lights then if they are used for stage lighting. HIDs arent used on stages usually because they cant be turned on and off fast enough like halogen/tungsten. Are you sure you dont just mean those w/ a blue filter? They are huge bulbs like a halide, but they are just large filament bulbs.

adam82

08/30/2007, 04:21 PM

wow!!!!! very nice!!!

token

08/30/2007, 05:34 PM

I have the ballast number written down somewhere for the spotlight-fixtured MH's. One of the Japanese bulb manufacturers makes spectrum bulbs for them. It seems that the spots enjoy much wider usage in Japan than in the U.S., though the efforts of invincible569 may change that.

The "theory" behind the spot is to encourage pigmentation coloration at a different angle than "overhead" lighting provides. This allows us to actually see the pigmentation we see when looking down on the coral.

If you haven't seen invincible569's build, his thread is starts here (http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1033086&perpage=25&pagenumber=1) but has split and its most current page is here (http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=10668471#post10668471). One will not have to go back many pages to see some great shots.

hahnmeister

08/31/2007, 03:02 AM

Ive seen 569's tank. I like the spotlights, and I am familiar with the spotlight bulbs, but I didnt think they were used with stage lighting. I can see plenty of other uses though.

Halides just arent as efficient with blue light though. The amount it would take to suppliment the daylight would end up being so much it would overexpose the tank. With blue T5s, you can suppliment the blue spectrums w/o boosting the other spectrums. Thats the main advantage.

glassbox-design

08/31/2007, 09:51 AM

they certainly use halide in stage lighting and in filming. often with lower K bulbs, but due to their efficiency they are used in higher K and blue bulbs as well....for wash lighting in particular.

there are many commercial and modern metal halide track lighting fixtures out there to use...they're pricey, but look great.

i'm still waiting for those 10k g12's

rogergolf66

09/01/2007, 09:19 AM

this is great can you maintain SPS with this and no suplimental lighting?

Roger

Lordhelmet

09/02/2007, 12:51 AM

look back over the last 40 pages and you will see people are keeping some amazing tanks with just the sun.

rogergolf66

09/05/2007, 01:49 PM

I am thinking of putting these in with in the next month I am thinking 3 10 inch over my 125 that is 6 feet long. What do you think. anything you wish you would have done different?

Roger

Reefski's

09/05/2007, 01:52 PM

i think the larger size is better. also i think everyone supplements with additional lighting.

Carl

JMBoehling

09/08/2007, 08:05 AM

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10706513#post10706513 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by rogergolf66
I am thinking of putting these in with in the next month I am thinking 3 10 inch over my 125 that is 6 feet long. What do you think. anything you wish you would have done different?

Roger

Larger is always better, if you can fit them.... I have (02) 10" over my 90, I have to use (03) 48" t5 Ho's to suppliment but everything continues to grow well in my setup...

I'll post some pics for you..

Later,

Jim

JMBoehling

09/08/2007, 03:04 PM

Here are a few updates on my 90 with (02) 10" Skylights aned (03) 54 Watt T5Ho's I use the T5's primarliy for the 20k effect on the tank..

Looking up at my lights

http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i122/JMBoehling/SkylightSmall.jpg

Looking down on thewater surface

http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i122/JMBoehling/Skylight2Small.jpg

Whole tank shot

http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i122/JMBoehling/P9070106Small.jpg

A few corals in my reef

http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i122/JMBoehling/P9070097Small.jpg

http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i122/JMBoehling/P9070095Small.jpg

http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i122/JMBoehling/P9060111Small.jpg

http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i122/JMBoehling/P9060113Small.jpg

http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i122/JMBoehling/P9060112Small.jpg

later,

Jim

rogergolf66

09/08/2007, 04:09 PM

VERY NICE!!!

I am trying to figure out if it is worth it. I would like the engery saveings on my electric bill. right now I have 900W of MH running.

Reefski's

09/08/2007, 08:56 PM

just do it. will pay off cost within a short while.

and then show us pix.

Carl

rogergolf66

09/08/2007, 09:02 PM

easy to say. I just spent $1,200 on my MH now I want to change to this my wife is loving it another $1,500 no biggy right.LOL

Adrianvh

09/09/2007, 11:35 PM

My bum is sore, my head hurts and I've just lost several hours of my life reading all this.

Out come ?

*ring ring* *ring ring*
"hello? Is that solatube? I'd like a quote on ............."

Next is to find an Aust dealer for Bio-wheel.
Low cost 7'x30"x30" here we come!

conorwynne

09/10/2007, 11:46 AM

I am in the middle of re-setting up my nano.

-- its only 100 liters, and I have a lad from solatube coming tomorrow to see if it is feasable to use it to light my nano.

Mind you, I mentioned it to my wife and she says, but we need new curtains! Hmmm...

Sure I'll wait and see what the fitter says tomorrow.
Irish weather being what it is I'll never get the output you Aussies / Americans get, but I really would like to see if I could grown SPS frags with no supplimental lighting at all.

I've gone BB with the nano -- a new thing for me, and will have massive turnover. The only thing is, a sump if not possible with the nano -- its an old jewel wedge style tank -- they don't even make them any more -- please let the solatube guy say it will work! We already have a large velux window in the roof, and this has been enough to keep my GSP's and zoos alive for 6 weeks while the rock was cooking.

Please let my wife agree, else I'm stuffed.

regards
Conor.

zeusfc

09/11/2007, 12:24 AM

good luck with the wife conor!

don't forget, most of the corals we keep come from 10m down or more... SPS in a nano, will need less intense light than "tropical sun through a solatube", so you should be lucky

i'd still want to see light/lux readings for winter in your area though, as you may find that after a week of cloudy november days, the SPS are suffering...
supplimental lighting could be the key here? a 70wt or 150wt mh on an over-the-tank bracket may be the thing. try "watford aquarium" if you can't get one locally

hawaiianwargod

09/11/2007, 11:04 AM

Adrianvh
[welcome]

Reefski's

09/11/2007, 02:34 PM

i think one of the cool things about the solartube idea is the variable light. after all the tropics are tropical because it rains there a lot. which means it is cloudy a lot. chuck has seen 30 straight days of clouds where he lives in the tropics near a reef outside his door. and then the sun comes out and the corals are fine.

here's my skylight shaft lined with the best reflective material i could find. anolux.com

<a href="http://photobucket.com" target="_blank"><img src="http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l58/reefski/DSC03776.jpg" border="0" alt="Photo Sharing and Video Hosting at Photobucket"></a>

from the top
<a href="http://photobucket.com" target="_blank"><img src="http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l58/reefski/DSC03638-1.jpg" border="0" alt="Photo Sharing and Video Hosting at Photobucket"></a>

Carl

JMBoehling

09/11/2007, 04:19 PM

Carl,

That is AWESOME... Please keep us updated with your build on this thread...

Thanks,

Jim

salty joe

09/11/2007, 09:49 PM

Carl,
Did you line only the perimeter of the skylight shaft with reflective material? Or do you have a number of reflective tunnels inside the skylight shaft? I just could not tell for sure from the picture.

Joe

Reefski's

09/12/2007, 07:37 AM

just the outside of the shaft. it is like a house of mirrors isn't it? lots of light.

it would only dilute the light by adding more reflective surfaces and make it much harder to work on the tank, hang lights etc.

there is only a couple of months where there is direct light down the shaft but there is a multiplication effect then whereby the sun hits the PAR meter directly and then also bounces off the walls and there is a higher reading than in the sun only. this is only for a few weeks at the height of summer and only on the north side of the tank.

Carl

<a href="http://photobucket.com" target="_blank"><img src="http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l58/reefski/DSC03637.jpg" border="0" alt="Photo Sharing and Video Hosting at Photobucket"></a>

<a href="http://photobucket.com" target="_blank"><img src="http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l58/reefski/DSC03636-1.jpg" border="0" alt="Photo Sharing and Video Hosting at Photobucket"></a>