please review my interceptor treatment plan!

[Lunchbucket]

ok i have seen the threads!! lots of LONG threads and i have gotten through some of them...but too much for me to get through. could you guys please advise my plan so that i can make sure i am doing this right??

plan of action:

add 2-3 salifert test kit spoons of ground interceptor to tank
go to bed for 6hrs or so
do a 25gal water change and add a TON of carbon
leave the tank for the day.

i don't plan on doing the 2nd or 3rd doses as i have heard they are not needed.

have heard that the salifert spoon treats about 32gals or so. i will have about 60-70gal to treat and i have heard to overdose by a little. this has been seen with NO ill effects by many i know.

i will try to get my two emerald crabs out...but my cleaner i will not be able to catch. i have heard that SOMETIMES the cleaners or such should make it. the emeralds are toast i believe

i have 2 clams but they won't be harmed correct.

any advice words of wisdom??
thanks
Lunchbucket

[SeanT]

Originally posted by Lunchbucket

add 2-3 salifert test kit spoons of ground interceptor to tank
go to bed for 6hrs or so
do a 25gal water change and add a TON of carbon
leave the tank for the day.
Looks good.
Originally posted by Lunchbucket

i don't plan on doing the 2nd or 3rd doses as i have heard they are not needed.
BAD move.
Do them. If you don't kill all the bugs then they will just multiply and you will be back at square one.

Originally posted by Lunchbucket

any advice words of wisdom??
thanks
Lunchbucket
Don't know how 'wise' they are but...
Be sure to remove all your carbon while treating.
Turn your skimmers air input off and just let the water run through it (need to treat it too).

After you run carbon for a day or so, throw old carbon out and put new in.

Repeat 2 more times. ;)

hth,
Sean

[Lunchbucket]

Sean - ok ok i will do repeat treatments. 2nd AND 3rd doses?? or ONLY 2nd dose??

yeah i meant to put "run skimmer w/ no air just water running through it" i will just stick my hose for air in my sump and let it run.

after 2 days i will change out carbon.

so what 2nd dose 7days later???

so how bad will my pods get wiped out?? i don't have any fish in there as they have been in teh QT tank for ICH hypo treatment for 6wks now. should i add them soon or give the pods more of a chance to populate? there are a LOT of pods running around. do mysis shrimp get nuked too???

thanks
Lunchbucket

[SeanT]

Do 2nd and 3rd doses.
If I recall correctly you do the 2nd dose 7 days later and the 3rd 14 days after the 2nd.
Your pods are pretty much toast.
A few will survive and will replenish the supply.
Same for Mysid shrimp.

[MiddletonMark]

I too agree with multiple doses. Do you want to have to do this again? How much can you pull out every colony + inspect? Just my take, but if you're bothering to do it once - while a second/third treatment might be unnecessary, I dislike `might'.

I would remove the shrimp [yeah, PITA] - as while mine `lived through it' it died within a month ... not exactly linked, except in my head ;) Esp. as you already have a QT going ...

Sean has a good point on the skimmer too.

I would also suggest maybe a second 25% w/c 2 days after. I did a huge amount of water changes around my treatments - and think the tank responded pretty positively to it. Figured I'd try to get the lingering Interceptor/et.al. out of the tank best I could. After my final treatment I did a ton of w/c after - no idea if it `helped' but I blew through a salt bucket on my 58 that month I think. Just seemed wise to keep the large w/c thing going for a while after the last treatment.

Anyway - just my take on it. Sounds like you have a good handle on it already.

[Haggisman14]

I did the treatment once on a 50 gallon that had a pretty bad infestation about 3 months ago, and all is still well. I only treated once, upped the dosage a little bit, and let the treatment go for about 6 hours and 45 mins. Killed off all the red bugs, and hardly any pods. My blood shrimp lived threw it, but the one hermit i couldn't get out of the tank kicked the bucket. All the corals have been doing great, and color returned to the ones that were suffering badly.

I'm not an sps expert like Mark and SeanT, but just offering up my experiences...

Marc

[MiddletonMark]

Marc - don't mistake talking a lot for knowing a lot ;)

I've got so much to learn yet too ...

[marinelife]

Some info here http://www.reeffrontiers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5119&page=1&pp=15

[Unarce]

The 2nd and 3rd treatment was a precautionary measure because Dustin didn't know if red bugs had a larval stage. During Borneman's study of red bugs, he determined that there wasn't and that the multiple treatments weren't necessary.

Personally, I've only treated once (practically zero impact on pods), and no red bugs after 2 months. There's nothing wrong with multiple treatments since the interceptor has no affect on corals. The only drawback is you'll risk killing all your pods.

[MiddletonMark]

But after the first treatment IMO the pods are probably toast anyway ... if they're already dead, how will a second treatment change things?

Just my take - and I know about Eric's `no larval' post - but it seems like he even suggests they are very tough to spot, may live through a single treatment.

[maybe it's my experience with flatworms - but it's easy to kill all but one pest ... and a month later have to do it again IME]

But hey - your tank, your decision :)

[marinelife]

I lost very few pods after one treatement so I do not think that one would kill all the pods

[MIKE NY]

have heard that the salifert spoon treats about 32gals or so.
thats using the large dog pill with 23 mg of Milbenycin Oxime right, so if have the med dog pill which only has 11.5mg of Milbenycin Oxime I would use two per 32 gals... I'm just trying to fiqure out an easier way to calculate dosage without screwing up.

TIA,
Mike

[one eye]

A little off topic but.. last night I put 3 Salifert spoons into a small cup of tank water to do a strong dip on an infected coral I was putting in my tank. After the dip I put the coral into my tank without rinsing it. A scarlet hermit went right to the coral immediatly after I put it in the tank and began cleaning the coral. The hermit died within minutes...probably about 10 minutes.

[Lunchbucket]

reefnutz - so borneman did a study w/ NO reoccurance w/ one dose...i've heard MANY have done one w/ no more back

mike NY - not sure if these are the large pills i am geting one from a buddy. he has a fairly large dog so i am assuming it is the big pill

one eye - crazy about the hermit crab

Lunchbucket

[Ewan]

Good posts above, Lunch. Do the 3 treatments. Learn from my mistakes.

Also, your clams will be fine. This was my major concern.

-Rob

[Lunchbucket]

Ewan - buddy!!! thanks for the comments. my clams were a BIG concern of mine!

Lunchbucket

[Unarce]

Originally posted by Lunchbucket
reefnutz - so borneman did a study w/ NO reoccurance w/ one dose...i've heard MANY have done one w/ no more back


I figured what the heck, I gotta wait a whole week to do the 2nd treatment anyway, so I just played it by ear. In my case, there are no more red bugs after two months, so the 2nd and 3rd treatments would have just destroyed the fauna.

[MiddletonMark]

No clam issue here, nor with serpent stars.

Good luck with it, Lunch.

[Leviathan]

Lunch,

So you know you are NOT alone, I just got a tablet today and am planning on treating the system sunday night or possibly monday.

Even with all the support from thoses who have had great sucess with this treatment, its still a nail-biter for me also.

I wish you luck when you do it, and hope that the outcome is positive. I know that the look on the Vets face when I told him what it was for was a priceless moment at best.

I am glad to here that clams are not damaged, as I have 2 one of which is 5 years old.

Anyhow,

I have one question, and please excuse me if this is hijacking. I figured since you were in a similar situation to me ( about to dose ) it would be silly to start a new thread on it.

Lets say that all goes well with the treatment, I would like to avoid this from happening again. I cant get a straight answer as to any Dip treatments dip time/doseage/etc... for new additions? I realize a QT tank would be best here,,but at this point in time thats just not an option for me. It will be at some point after all this though!

Any ideas, or experiences?

Also,,
I have seen that the effects on crabs/shrimp are fatal, But have seen a few ( not many, but enough to concern me ) that suggest snail being affected by the treatment. Is this been a problem in anyones experiences or just rumor?

[geshields]

Originally posted by Lunchbucket
reefnutz - so borneman did a study w/ NO reoccurance w/ one dose...i've heard MANY have done one w/ no more back

mike NY - not sure if these are the large pills i am geting one from a buddy. he has a fairly large dog so i am assuming it is the big pill

one eye - crazy about the hermit crab

Lunchbucket

Lunch,

The tablet I sent you is for large dogs...

Also, do the 3 treatments. In the beginning, some of us here just did the 1 dose and they DID come back after 2-3 months...

Better to be safe than sorry...

And to quote a famous shoe manufacturer: JUST DO IT!!!!

Greg

[Lunchbucket]

MiddletonMark -thanks!!

Leviathan - thanks man! no problem on the question..i was wondering the same. saves room here on RC and it fits in w/ the thread so ask away :D we will make it through and have nice bug free corals SOON! Good luck w/ your dosing

geshields - thanks for some help here. i just got it yesterday (friday) and i noticed it was the 23g dose which i THOUGHT was the large pill now i know. thanks for the suggestions on teh 2nd and 3rd doses also.

guess i will start draining water for a LOT of water changes soon. doing 3-6changes on the tank in the next 3wks for the interceptor treatments and i have to get the QT tank back up to normals SG also. i better order a bucket of salt ASAP!!

thanks everyone. treatment will go in wed night!!!!
Lunchhbucket

[Leviathan]

Well I decided not to wait and started the 1st treatment this evening at 11pm.

So far all is well and I am at the 2 1/2 hour mark. Only noticable difference so far is slowed pod movement. But everything I have read points to the 4-5 hour mark as the point where the bugs start to give in. There is a noticable increase ( minimal though ) in slime around the frags, but dosent seem to be more than if I did a water change etc...

[MH MN]

after the treatment and you bring the skimmer back online be ready to dump it frequently, because it will go nuts for a couple hours.

[Leviathan]

Originally posted by mikehuinker
after the treatment and you bring the skimmer back online be ready to dump it frequently, because it will go nuts for a couple hours.

If this isnt the truth!!

I have seen the skimmer go crazy before but never like this. It has now calmed down ( several hour post treatment )

[otolith]

Originally posted by geshields
...
Also, do the 3 treatments. In the beginning, some of us here just did the 1 dose and they DID come back after 2-3 months...

Better to be safe than sorry...

And to quote a famous shoe manufacturer: JUST DO IT!!!!

Greg
I'm one of the "some of us" who only did one treatment at a larger than recommended dose. They came back. Did the 3 treatments, and haven't seen one since.

[Lunchbucket]

got yah 3 it is!!!

Lunchbucket

[fahz]

Originally posted by Leviathan
Lunch,

Anyhow,

I have one question, and please excuse me if this is hijacking. I figured since you were in a similar situation to me ( about to dose ) it would be silly to start a new thread on it.

Lets say that all goes well with the treatment, I would like to avoid this from happening again. I cant get a straight answer as to any Dip treatments dip time/doseage/etc... for new additions? I realize a QT tank would be best here,,but at this point in time thats just not an option for me. It will be at some point after all this though!

Any ideas, or experiences?

Also,,
I have seen that the effects on crabs/shrimp are fatal, But have seen a few ( not many, but enough to concern me ) that suggest snail being affected by the treatment. Is this been a problem in anyones experiences or just rumor?

Just a note for you guys about dips. I used 1/8 of a tablet in 5 gallons of tank water for 1 hour with a powerhead. This is a high dose but effective as the bugs died in about 30 minutes. The pieces that were dipped were added to my tank after the dip but were toxic to hermits which went on them for an hour or two. I think it would have been better to do a 100% change on the 5 gallon or had another 5 gallon standing by for another hour to detoxify. Could have used a five gallon bucket. I will tell you not to trust a guy who says he treated and is bug free, frags seem to be the worst.

Fahz

[Lunchbucket]

Fahz - good point on not to trust ANYONE that says they have treated and are bug free...better to be safe than sorry. even if they think they are bug free and treated like others have seen they can come back w/out the 3 doses. i recently did this to a buddy and i am very sorry for it

i got frags that were "bug free" and had been treated in the past. i now have bugs and i gave my buddy frags and told him don't worry they are bug free...my bad and now his 280 has bugs bad i guess. i feel terrible. good thing they are treatable but he will loos his acro crabs and LOTS of other stuff because of it

now this posses a question.

if you treat your frags ONCE in a QT tank before introducing them to the tank you could STILL infect your tank correct? since we do NOT know how they reproduce and could have eggs layed on or IN the corals that could later hatch out...or i am just thinking too deep?

to me it seems that we should almost QT ALL frags like fish for at least 3wks. this would give time to do 3 doses and KNOW that we killed all the red bugs. if one treatment was done on the frags who is to say that they couldn't actually infect the tank later if eggs, larva, or other such means of reproducing was in or on the frags and hatched out later

anyone???

Lunchbucket

[davejnz]

I've introduced a few new frags after q-tine for 6hrs at 20x(estimted) the recommended dose.Since Interceptor doesn't dissolve well in seawater,i take about a quart and place it in the blender with the meds.Seems to get it in suspension alot better.So far,i've still been bug free but i agree,it would probably be best to do a 3week q-tine.

[Travis]

I also agree, the 3 wk quarantine would be best but how many of us have quarantine tanks with metal halides, chillers, etc. dedicated just for that tank?

I think I was successfull treating all incoming corals at 4x recommeded dosage for 12 hours but you can never be 100% sure. I have the bugs now but think they came from a recent frag addition that wasn't treated. One 1" frag was all it took. Supposedly, the frag came from a "bug free" tank so I played Russian roullette and got burned. I could have the bugs because my quarantine protocol was not 100% effective or it could be from the frag (most likely). Either way, I will not be introducing ANY more corals to my tank without treating them first, regardless of whether or not they are supposed to be "bug free".

For those of you who have dosed more than the recommended amount to your display tanks, how much more did you dose? And did that have any negative effects on anything? I'm a fan of dosing a little extra just to be sure but not sure if I want to go that route in the display.

[Lunchbucket]

i believe geshields has done some mega dosing w/ NO ill effects

Lunchbucket

[fahz]

During March I did 1/4 pill treatments for 70 gallons. The red bugs and the small pods are gone. I removed all my hermits except about ten. After the first treatment all the remaining hermits but one were gone, he died in the second treatment. I have lots of snails and didn't lose any. I had two shrimp they both made the first treatment and one pepermint died in the second treatment, the Blood Red is still alive. All my fish lived but my Manderin suffered from the loss of pods until I started feeding him in a bottle, now he's fat. I have about fifty SPS frags, a Symphyllia brain, and a Crocea Clam and they are all doing fine. The treatments looked like they affected the sand bed but it came back and looks fine now, I'm sure in time the pods will be back. I added about fifty hermits one week after the last treatment and they are all doing fine so one twenty five percent water change and the carbon after each treatment seems to take care of the toxic effect. Hope this information helps with your treatments.

Fahz

Note: Bigger pods seem to make it like the amphipods its just the copipods and what ever holds your sand bed together that dies and the red bugs.

[Lunchbucket]

well going to dump my dose in...wish me luck (2:15pm CST)

Lunchbucket

[fahz]

Good luck Lunch you should have no problems keep an eye on things I think your going to see alot more bugs then you think. Once you add the Interseptor they seem to show up better or it seemed so anyway. They seem to die quite soon but hang on for about 4-5 hours on the SPS natural slim coat, you can see them but there not moving. Be sure to give it the full six hours before starting the water change. One water change seems to do the job until you treat again. After the first treatment I added two test hermits after 24 hours and they made it until I treated again.

Fahz

[Lunchbucket]

fahz - i'll be at work from now (3pm) till 6:30pm. the wife gets home at 5pm so i'll have to have her tell me what things look like.

yeah i am sure they hide quite well. as i didn't even notice them for quite a while.

i will leave it till 9:30 or 10pm so 7hrs + just to make sure. then a good 25% or MORE water change and a good gravel siphoning and a LOT of carbon and skimmer turned on. then tomorrow am i will change out the carbon for fresh.

hope my emerald and cleaner shrimp make it...i could care less abou the hermits...they are a PITA

off to work...i'll be thinking of my tank the WHOLE time :(

Lunchbucket

[MiddletonMark]

Originally posted by Lunchbucket
since we do NOT know how they reproduce and could have eggs layed on or IN the corals that could later hatch out...or i am just thinking too deep?

IMO, thinking too deep.

Flushing the coral to remove any interceptor/toxins from a strong dip IMO is wise. [or any hiding RB's barely hanging on ...]

But if you read Eric B's posts recently at reeffrontiers he's suggesting that they direct-develop/no larval stage ... meaning there would be no `eggs' or such that could hatch out remaining.

He sounds pretty certain, though I've heard enough certainty before to be skeptical towards most [like your buddy's frags ...] - but it sounds `right' to me [not really your expert opinion :lol:]

[Lunchbucket]

ok time to do a water change

i still see pods moving and the shrimp looks ok!!

off to water change, carbon, and get skimmer kicked back in!

Lunchbucket

[fahz]

What kind of pods do you see moving around? How much Interceptor did you use? Are all the red bugs gone off your Acros and did you run water through your skimmer without skimming during treatment? I'm sure everything is OK just checking.

fahz

[Leviathan]

Keep us updated Lunch,

I am now two days post treatment and all seems fine. I still havent seen pod one, but I was expecting that.

[Lunchbucket]

just got done 2 hrs later...well i messed w/ my aquacontroller for about 30min too :D my skimmer is set to skim wet till the AM then i will turn it down and i will change out the carbon tomorrow night for fresh.

ok all is done. ALL red bugs were gone off the infested coral at about 7pm or so. i left the treatment in 7hrs! i used about 2.5-3 salifert spoons for my 58gal. from what i have been hearing from buddies who divided up the tab a spoon treats about 32gal. so i treated with a 80-96gal dose. i wanted to go a titch higher to MAKE SURE i got them all. per the wifes instruction i WILL be doing another dose 1 wk from today....just to make sure. i'll use 3spoons or more that time.

i saw some of the little whitish ones the have like 10legs sticking out the side...i can't remember the name right now...too late. well i thought i saw them unless they were just stuck to the glass and dead. i'll check. ok just checked again...i saw one of the smaller pods i despribed above and one of the bigger ones. the big one looked dazed like he was shell shocked.

my cleaner shrimp is A-OK and guess what ...found of the emeralds on a rock also. he looked ok but wasn't moving across the rock but was alive...not sure if eating though

i stick the airline of my NW sedra 5000 in the water to suck just water and left the feed pump on for the skimmer also.

everything should be ok. i know others have seen shrimp and crabs make it through...and a few pods also

i see NO mysis shrimp like i did before and don't see the hoards of pods running around. only those 2.

the infested coral..the main one i saw has NO bugs on it and actually looks like 2 of its TINY polyps want to come out!!! cool cool!!

well one week of inspecting and draining and making water for a change. then another treatment....prolly a higher strength just to make sure

all in all PERFECT so far
Lunchbucket

[SeanT]

Good feeling. Ain't it? :)

[Lunchbucket]

good feeling?? as in bug free or to be done :P BOTH

just hope i AM bug free...well the 2nd treatment will knock them out.

just hope the pods come back now :( :(

Lunchbucket

[SeanT]

Pods are EASY to come by man.
Get some chaeto from someone, keep it in a qt tank for a bit with some rubble.
Transport rubble to main and VOILA! Pods. :)

[fahz]

Lunch sounds like you have the bases covered. Do the additional treatments even though you will see no more bugs.

Fahz

[Lunchbucket]

will do the 2nd treatment for sure...3rd probably isn't needed IMO

i saw a mysis shrimp this morning. he wasn't moving fast but i saw one. i didn't look very hard either. it took me about 2 min of looking on the left side ans i spotted one. i'm sure he is about the only one....i had a TON of them before since i has not fish due to being in a QT tank for 7wks plus...so i am sure they had a chance to get up in numbers. 2nd treatments will pretty much knock them down

skimmer pulled off about 1/16 of a cup last night. pretty wet but about like medium sun tea. i'll dump it later today when i change the carbon.

cleaner shrimp is still alive but i couldn't see the emeralds so now sure if they are alive or dead

no red bugs either. doesn't mean there aren't a few there though...oh well 1 wk they will be gone for SURE

Lunchbucket

[fahz]

The news sounds good, Mysis were the first thing to come back or the first thing in the pod family that I know made it. I only did two treatments one week apart and based it on the most current information of no egg stage and four day cycle with no Acros. Not to say I'm right only time will tell. :thumbsup: :thumbsup: The task seems big but it's one of the easier things I've done with success.

Fahz

[Racenrich]

~FWIW~

lunch-do the three treatments.....i was leary at first myself, but i didnt want to deter from what most people are doing....i did it 3x's within two weeks. like every 5 days i did it. Did a 10% H20 change each time and ran some carbon for abit.
The only things i lost were my cleaner shrimp, both emralds, and a couple of crabs i was unable to remove from the tank.

blood shrimp, coral bandit and all snails are still kicking.

Its been about 7 weeks now and to be honest the corals that were effected are "just now"starting to look like they did prior to treatment. (My Millies are finely showing full extension) :)
I've been worried that i didnt do enough and that i was going to have to do it again.

As for newly added frags or colonies.....i add about 1/4th pill to one gallon of tank water and let sit for 30 min, remove and put into fresh one gallon for 15 min.....

ive only done this 2x's since the treatment, im still leary about adding new corals to the tank nowadays....im sure we all are now.

HTH

Cheers,
Rich K.

[Lunchbucket]

will do the 2nd treatment on thursday. all the water is getting up to SG and want enough time ot age and make sure it is right.

the 2nd treatment will be the last.

Lunchbucket

[fahz]

Boy is it easy to make a dumb mistake. I was given a Blue Tort frag last week, arrived home at 10 PM and put it in my tank without thinking. It came from a "Bug Free System" but could have just as well been covered with red bugs. I spent a lot of time looking with the magnifying glass once I realized what I had done, so much for any words of wisdom from me.

Fahz

[Lunchbucket]

dang sorry to hear. so you have the bugs then?

Lunchbucket

[fahz]

No bugs but it just shows how easy a guy could get them back, I'm still clean. The Blue Tort, which is a $90 frag, was clean thank god. When I was collecting my frags back in November guys assured me they were bug free and that was not the case.

Fahz

[Reef-Jitsu]

Hello everyone, quick question, as I don't want to hijack, and it seems like everyone here knows what they're talking about. I too am about to dose the little bastards :mad2: but I bought the interceptor for med dogs (11-25 lbs) w/ 5.75 mg of milbemycin. I am doing everything listed above but adding 2 spoonfuls per 32 gal. I have a 125 gal w/ 30 gal sump and I am going to be using 10 salifert spoonfuls for each of the 3 treatments. Does this sound right to you guys?

Thanks,

Lee

[Travis]

Reef-Jitsu, I was also originally planning on doing an increased dosage when I treated my tank. After doing LOTS of reading I decided to stick with the original dosage because this has been successful for everyone who has treated and followed the treatment protocol. So I decided that if the regular dosage always works anyways then why increase it and possibly risk hurting something else in the tank? I did my first treatment last week and I couldn't find a single bug on my 40 or so frags/colonies that had them before the treatment. I just did a second treatment this morning just to make sure I got any that may have survived the first one. So in my own experience and everyone else's experience that I've read, the regular dosage is more than enough to get the job done.

[fahz]

If I read this right you tablet is 1/4 of the large dog size. Therefore 1 of your tablets will treat 95 gallons of water.

Fahz

The tablets used in the initial treatments were for large dogs, 51-100lbs. These tablets are just under 1 gram each and contain 23mg of Milbemycin Oxime, the rest of it is a lovely smelling beef flavor. EACH TABLET is enough to treat about 380 gallons.

[Lunchbucket]

fahz - i'm glad you posted man. i couldn't remember the difference between the pills and i didn't want to chime in to help Reef-Jitsu w/out the facts!! thanks!!

i believe the LARGE dog pill gives you about 10salifert spoons...so one spoon of the BIG pill treats around 30-35gallons of water. i used 3 today so i treated 90-105gallons

oh tank looks A-OK. i have NOT seen any bugs...i wasn't expecting to either. it is right at 5.5hrs into the treatment and the cleaner shrimp still looks ok. i'm gonn wait ONLY the 6hrs like directed instead of the 7like i did before. just running out of time to do the water change and need to get it done! it shouldn't hurt since i have dosed once and i am getting the full 6hrs

later
Lunchbucket

[Reef-Jitsu]

Thanks guys. I'm basing it on the amount of milbemycin in each pill and since the med dog pills have exactly half of the agent (5.75 mg) compared to the large dogs of 11.5 mg, I'm doing 2 spoonfuls per 35 gals. Ideally, this would put the same amount of milbemycin in the water. The threads I've read also say to try and estimate exactly the volume of water you'll be treating but of couse my 125 is full of LR and corals and my sump has a turbo floater skimmer in it, so I'm just treating it for the total 155 gal and not subtracting out rock space. Is this what you have done? I figure I'll be over treating by the voulume of rock and skimmer but I should be OK. Thanks again for your help.

[Lunchbucket]

well all done w/ the water change (~20gal) and added 1.5-2cups of carbon. the cleaner shrimp does NOT look happy. he is 1/2 hanging on the rock. not really clinging to it w/ all his legs. mostly just the back 2 or 4. looks almost like it is gonna fall off. he looked fine about 30min before the treatment was done.

skimmer is set to skim wet ot hopefully get the interceptor out of the water ASAP and the carbon and water change will help...hope he makes it!!

saw one of the emeralds and it was moving when i shined the light on it under a rock. so we will see i guess

other than that NO problems.

KISS MY ARSE RED BUGS!!!

Lunchbucket

[fahz]

Originally posted by Reef-Jitsu
Thanks guys. I'm basing it on the amount of milbemycin in each pill and since the med dog pills have exactly half of the agent (5.75 mg) compared to the large dogs of 11.5 mg, I'm doing 2 spoonfuls per 35 gals. Ideally, this would put the same amount of milbemycin in the water. The threads I've read also say to try and estimate exactly the volume of water you'll be treating but of couse my 125 is full of LR and corals and my sump has a turbo floater skimmer in it, so I'm just treating it for the total 155 gal and not subtracting out rock space. Is this what you have done? I figure I'll be over treating by the voulume of rock and skimmer but I should be OK. Thanks again for your help.

NOT SURE WHERE YOUR GETTING YOUR INFORMATION FROM BUT IT'S WRONG!!!!

If you treat with the information your posting you could be doing this over again. I have the large dog box in front of me and it contains 23.0 mg. So stop what your planning and get you information right.

Fahz

[Reef-Jitsu]

Fahz, actually the information was somewhat in this thread. Mike NY posted, however nobody answered. Boy am I glad you cought that :eek1: thank you so much! After looking at the size of the pills (which are smaller than the large dog pills) I don't think I can go with the spoon method because I don't think I can get 4 spoonfuls out of one tablet to treat 32 gal (less beefy flavor to milbemycin ratio)I will have to go with the analogy that one pill will treat 95 gal (now I see what you were talking about with the 1/4 statement). So, here's what I plan to do; Dose my 125 tank + 30 gal sump system with 1 and 3/4 pills for treatment. (Theoretically, I am dosing for 166 gal and my total system volume is 155 gal but it is alright to overdose a little).

Seriously, not trying to hijack. Just want to get confirmation (Fahz) that this makes sense and then I am off to dose :)

Lee

[Lunchbucket]

reef-jitsu - not a problem...don't worry about hijacking..it is NICE to ahve info all in one thread for people. the big red bug thread is TOO LONG

well my cleaner shrimp looks TERRIBLE. still clinging to the rock but laying on the sand on its side and holding on. it jerks and moves some about every 20sec or so. so it isn't dead unless htis is nerve impulses. i changed my carbon in hopes to get the rest out. hope my cleaner makes it...they are like 20bucks!! but at least i didn't loose a TON in corals.

i saw both emeralds last night and they looked fine. today my bigger one didn't move much when i put a flashlight on him. he might be messed up some too.

everything else is A-OK...haven't checked my pod population at night...i'll do that tonight!

wish my shrimp luck :(
Lunchbucket

[fahz]

Originally posted by Reef-Jitsu
Fahz, actually the information was somewhat in this thread. Mike NY posted, however nobody answered. Boy am I glad you cought that :eek1: thank you so much! After looking at the size of the pills (which are smaller than the large dog pills) I don't think I can go with the spoon method because I don't think I can get 4 spoonfuls out of one tablet to treat 32 gal (less beefy flavor to milbemycin ratio)I will have to go with the analogy that one pill will treat 95 gal (now I see what you were talking about with the 1/4 statement). So, here's what I plan to do; Dose my 125 tank + 30 gal sump system with 1 and 3/4 pills for treatment. (Theoretically, I am dosing for 166 gal and my total system volume is 155 gal but it is alright to overdose a little).

Seriously, not trying to hijack. Just want to get confirmation (Fahz) that this makes sense and then I am off to dose :)

Lee

Lee glad I caught you before using to little but now you may be using to much. It's not a problem, I don't think, but your only dosing for water volume. If you have LR and sand your water volume should be about 130 gallons with your sump volume. One and a half pills should be more then enough for a 140 gallons. I don't think Lunch minds using his thread as we all learn from each other.

Fahz

[fahz]

Lunch hope the shrimp and Emeralds makes it as it does seem to knock them silly. My Blood Red made it but a Peppermint parished in the second treatment. Hope you don't mind using your thread to help another red bug Killer.

Fahz

[Lunchbucket]

heck no everyone jump on...learn!! :D

fahz - did you see yours all messed up??? the shrimp seems a LITTLE better...still knocked silly though

Lunchbucket

[fahz]

I did my first treatment to a different tank with frags only. I removed all the frags and treated them in a 5 gallon tank at high dose then put them back in the original tank. I should have done a water change on them before I put them back. The toxins coming off the frags knocked all of my hermits silly in the original tank. I though I might lose them but it just made them stop in there tracks for a half a day.

Fahz

[Lunchbucket]

the shrimp is still holding on. has been on the sand lately since about 5pm. not dead just sitting on the sand. it has moved places also.

the emeralds are fine. they were still for 1/2 of the day but tonight they were moving

we will see what tomorrow brings
Lunchbucket

[fahz]

:thumbsup: So Far Lunch!!!

[Lunchbucket]

found the shrimp dead this morning. :( wish it was an emerald and NOT the cleaner shrimp. now i will have to get a new one sometime soon and some pepps sucks he had to suffer like that :(

ok now my question is i had ICH from a fish (my tang) and they just got done w/ thier hypo treatment to kill it. if i go to the LFS and get a cleaner and some pepps i run the risk of introducing ICH back into my system since it takes 30days plus w/ NO fish to kill the ICH correct? so it could WOULD be in thier tanks still whether i see ICH or not...correct? hmm.....so that means i need to QT the inverts for 30days or i need to order online where they SHOULN'T have ICH correct??

just trying to get the disasters out of my system

Lunchbucket

[Travis]

Lunch, Yes, you can re-introduce ich by adding new inverts. In fact, I remember reading an article by Eric Borneman a while back... he found that ich could even be introduced from corals as the parasites can be in their guts. I don't think ordering online will guarantee anything either. Bottom line is that EVERYTHING needs to be quarantined for 6-8 weeks. 4 weeks isn't long enough, IME.

[Lunchbucket]

crap crapy crap. oh well i'll wait till i get the clowns in the tank and then i will downgrade to a 10gal QT for the inverts and a fish or two.

thanks!!
Lunchbucket

[Travis]

Originally posted by Lunchbucket
crap crapy crap. oh well i'll wait till i get the clowns in the tank and then i will downgrade to a 10gal QT for the inverts and a fish or two.

thanks!!
Lunchbucket

It never ends does it?:lol: Seriously though, I'm sure any "expert" would recommend that you quarantine EVERYTHING. But you are free to take your own chances. I mean what is really the probability of introducing ich with a new shrimp. I would say the probability is probably <1%.

[Lunchbucket]

so the chances are pretty slim???? i know QT'ing is the way to go but you know how it is in an apt...no ROOM for a QT tank. i'm thinking if i drip acclimate and then rinse i might be ok...but might not be....if i get ICH it is my own fault :( but 6wks in a WT tank....i don' think i can handle it

Lunchbucket

[Travis]

I would think you should be ok. Just make sure not to add any of the store water to your tank. Especially if you get them from Mini Critters.:lol: If you are paranoid then just quarantine it for a couple days. If any ich comes with the cleaner shrimp it should be gone within a couple days. I'm not 100% sure but I highly doubt ich would even attach itself to the cleaner shrimp. If there is any in its gut then I'm sure it should get pooped out in a couple days. But still make sure not to add any water from the Q tank to your display. If ich does get into the Q tank it could still be alive in one of its non-cyst stages in the water.

[fahz]

Hey Lunch:

If your LFS is the source of your problems I would consider ordering from LiveAquaria shipping is only $25 and there fish and inverts are excellent. Plan delivery on a day when you can pickup the package at 8:30 in the FedEx office. You can't beat the 14 day gaurentee and there prices and selection are excellent. I don't even bother with our LFS's and there BS anymore.

Fahz

[Travis]

Good point Fahz. Especially since Lunch's closest LFS is an hour away anyways. I've had good experiences with LiveAquria and they do have the lowest prices for shipping around. Another option would be eTropicals. You can "build your own" invert package and if you spend over $60 you get free shipping.

[Lunchbucket]

fahz - i hear you on that. yeah the LFS is 1hr away and mostly CRAP anyhow. i can't pick it up at the fed ex location...because they are 1hr from me too :D there isn't a station in our town.

travis - not a bad idea i need to add some more snails and would like to get soms nassarius (sp?) snails for my sand.

i'd need a couple pepps and one or two cleaners...plus snails so it would be pretty easy to get 60bucks.

thanks for the suggestions guys. i'll try liveaquaria or etropicals

Lunchbucket

[Travis]

Lunch, you may want to avoid the nassarius snails. They often times can carry diseases that can be contracted by humans. Check out this article: http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/00016486.htm That is just one example of many.

[Lunchbucket]

CRAZY!!!

never heard of that

thanks
Lunchbucket

[jcgoguen]

has anyone used interceptor for an isopod problem

[Lunchbucket]

Ok this is very strange. I just re read this thread last weekend. I had to redo the threatment as I found a couple RB's and wanted to nip them before they caused trouble and multiplied. Not sure where I got them again as I believe I did a 6hr QT w/ all new incoming corals. Maybe I forgot to do it on my PM frag.

Anywho did a 8hr treatment w/ 4 salifert spoons to make sure that I got them all incase they were Interceptor resistant. Did that on Sunday. I'm going to do another treatment on Sat.

Lunchbucket

[psteeleb]

I did two treatments about 30%over dose, I was ready to do a third but monitored and wasn't needed

link here with pictures taken about every 2 hours
http://www.dfwmas.org/Forums/viewtopic.php?t=40815&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=40


here are my final notes

Final log notes

I’ll consider this a very successful Red Bug treatment

Beginning notes
• I suspect I got the Red Bugs on a mail order coral that I got in May of 2007
• The red bugs were first noticed by an experienced reefer during one of our clubs tank tours in June 2007
• I never did notice them on other corals, but it was pointed out to me when I sold some extra frags that they had Red Bugs.
• Started to read as many forum write ups on treating for Red Bugs using Interceptor. I was getting several variations to the original plan so I started asking questions on the forum. It’s the start of this post.
• Decided to start the treatment with hopes to do it once, but based on feedback I prepared on doing it three times.
• Started to remove crabs the week of 12/21 from my reef tank and moved them to the 29g seahorse tank. Getting an Acro crab out was a concern, but between staying in water and a little coaxing with a toothpick he decided what was best for him. The best I could tell I got all but 3 hermits out.
• Made a couple attempts at getting the shrimp out but they are much faster and spook much easier then hermit crabs.

Started first treatment on 12/28 at 9:50
• I used 1 full sized tablet, enough for 380 gallons according to the initial recommended dosage. So based on a rough calculation of my systems total volume I estimated I overdosed by 35% (380/280, the 280 is based on 280 for main, 40 for sump and piping, less 40 for volume taken up by live rock)
• I also planned on running the treatment longer then the initial recommendation.
• Turned off skimmer air & ozone, removed my carbon and phosphate reactors and drained them. All other piping was open to allow flow throughout the system. I crushed the tablet using a spoon and plate and mixed it in a small container with tank water. When dissolved, I poured the mixture into my sump into the high flow area just upstream of my return pump.
• Monitored red bugs and shrimp about every 2 hours. Taking progress pictures that are posted in this thread.
• I’d say 75%+ of the red bugs were gone at the 4 hour mark, with over 90% gone at the 10 hour mark. One showed up at the 12 hour mark.
• Everything looked clear at the 14 hour mark. I started fresh carbon and skimmer after 15 hours form introducing the treatment. I hooked up the phosphate reactors later that day.
• All shrimp and the purple lobster survive, lost 2 hermits that were not removed earlier.

First week after treatment observations
• Nothing noticeable for first 3 days
• I tested water on day 2, nitrates were up a bit, but no big deal. Notice Iodine/Iodate were low so dosed with Lugals solution. A couple of the shrimp molted that night, this may have helped them get through the second dose as from all other posts I have read the second dose is usually too much for them to handle. I’m noting this for others, they may want to incorporate it into a procedure they use with shrimp in the system. I think I just got lucky as it was not a planned event.
• Day four there appears to be a couple small white spots on the coral that had the worst infestation (all other corals appear clean). At this time not sure if they are Red bugs or something else. They are about 1/3 the normal red bug size.
• Day five, several more white spots noticed, about 5 in all, and they appear to me moving based on camera shots. Under the camera lens, a couple of the larger spots have a yellowish hue. At this time it is suspected they are new offspring red bugs. I have no clue if these are from a live parent that gave a recent hatch or what.
• Day 6 and 7, more spots and looking more like young red bugs. Decide to go with second treatment. Concerned about shrimp.

Started second treatment, 8 days after starting the first, on 1/6/08, at 10:30am
• Again turned off skimmer, ozone and removed carbon and phosphate reactors.
• 4 hours into second treatment all red bugs appear to be gone. No other bugs show up during the remaining treatment duration
• At 7:00am or 20.5 hours into second treatment I started the carbon, phos, and turned on the air to the skimmer. Apparently no impact to shrimp all accounted for that day doing there normal stuff.
• Changed carbon and did a 10% water change that night.
• Visually inspect and take close up photos of corals, nothing noticeable is observed throughout the week. Assume all red bugs have been eradicated. With the shrimp still alive success is clamed.
• Later that week, reintroduced most of the hermits and acro crab. No ill side affects noticed.
• Plan on doing another 15% water change this weekend (a week after second treatment) and reintroduce the rest of the hermits that were initially removed.

Other notes:
• The mid way iodine dosing was pure coincidence, but I think it may have helped the shrimp survive,
• At least one hermit survived the ordeal, two did not (may have been other un-noticed).
• A barnacle on a coral appeared totally unaffected during treatment. As these are considered a crustacean, I am noting it here.
• Polyp extension during treatment appeared more then normal. This was also observed in other posts.
• Nitrates slightly elevated, suspect it’s related to lack of cleanup crew and pod die off.
• Pod levels decreased significantly. None observed a week after second treatment. Will re-introduce from smaller seahorse tank that has a high population of various pods. May consider buying some new fresh live rock to help with pod population and other biodiversity.

[MFULKERSIN]

Ok quick ?

I have 90 gall with 20 gal sumpfuge

and 2.5 small interceptor tablet

Can someone tell me how to figure how much crushed up tablet Im goin to need for each treatment?


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Ok soooooooooo


Remove Carbon -
Air off but water circulating thru skimmer -
Shrimps and Crabs out -
TREAT -
wait 6-7 hours -
25% H2O change -
FRESH CARBON? -
Skimmer on-

REPEAT 7 days?


thanks

[DaveG99]

any updates

[nanoguy]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=4770567#post4770567 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Travis
Lunch, you may want to avoid the nassarius snails. They often times can carry diseases that can be contracted by humans. Check out this article: http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/00016486.htm That is just one example of many.

Don't want to bring this off topic but maybe I found an explanation to what caused this a few weeks ago. You should've of seen it a couple of days after this pic was taken....not pretty.

http://home.pacbell.net/deejay27/rash1.jpg

[Lunchbucket]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15189516#post15189516 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by DaveG99
any updates

Well my tank in RB free.

Not sure if there are any updated needed to the protocol as I haven't needed to do it again

Lunchbucket

[tdwyatt]

just an addendum:

I have set up a working introduction protocol for new coral and frags, it involves using 1 salifert scop of the large dog tablet in a 5 gallon bucket of fresh ASW with a heater and a powerhead at the surface (it swirls the entire bi=ucket with a gentle laminar flow). I treat for 8 hours, then move the specimen to my (40 USG) Q tank and leave it for 3-6 weeks. My qt uses a 150 watt DE MH (XM 10kK) and I make it a point to do a 100% waterchange prior to and after adding corals to the QT.

This has worked well for me with no resulting critter losses (like hermit crabs) that enter the coral when they are introduced to the display. The display has remained (at leaset I think it has) RB-free for 2 years now.

[delusions]

This is a little off topic, but does anyone know how long you have keep a treatment tank running if you remove all acros from a display? From what i remember, it was something like 15 days to ensure that the redbugs left in the display (with no acros) would die.