Stargrass flower.. maybe

[Samala]

Helloo everyone. I've been watching some growth on my stargrass the last week or so and noted some bizarre growth at first. Basically, they were litte spike like structures in the center of a whorl in a few leaf-sets on this plant. Well, now the oldest spike has started to sprout filaments, or strings, or.. well.. try my website and take a look. I've seen male flowers in some published work and will be visiting the library tomorrow to compare to what I've got. But, all things aside, I really think they're grass flowers. Cool, eh? I think so. I wanted to wait till I had followed the growth a few more days but had to share. Will post more pictures as I can in the next few days while its growing. [Well, if it grows, my tank got mighty hot today with the heat wave we had in the mid atlantic - hasn't been over 70F since October 31st!]

My website is also updated for the grass tank's first month. Kinda photo intensive, so slow connections beware (I can send you images if you still want to see, PM me.) I tried to split up the pages to help with download time. I'd put them in the RC gallery but they're too big.. have to find a way to compress the size but not lose too much quality. Hmm.

<img width=400 height=300 border=1 src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v285/slardizabal/grass/close45a.jpg"><br>
<a href="http://home.comcast.net/~slardizabal/seagrass7.html">Grass tank</a>

And now I'm rambling.. anyway, enjoy! :D
>Sarah

[bigben]

hmmm, definitely looks interesting (still). keep us posted on what you find out or see. interesting what you've observed with the b vitamins as well. maybe you need to set up some additional tanks for a real experimental comparison :D

ttyl,

ben

ps--don't worry, the whole point of a hobby discussion forum is to ramble. if we didn't want to read it, we wouldn't be members ;)

[Samala]

bigben says
maybe you need to set up some additional tanks for a real experimental comparison :D

Um, yes please! Everyone donate a dollar and I'll get right on those experimental comparisons.. hehehe.

Oh yes, a quick note about a seagrass tank in general.. I was well aware that lots of photosynthesis was going on in tank and that pH was probably creeping up during the day. So I took a little reading tonight... 8.8!!!!!!! Not cool! When I had the CO2 reactor on it never went above 7.8 and nighttime it was around 7.6 (a bit low...). Bah!

Looks like I'll have to figure this out on how to manage the pH in such an active tank.. may have to bubble air into the tank instead of CO2. Course, I think its the carbon dioxide/carbonic acid being pulled out by the plants (loads and loads of O2 bubbles all day long). That iron/carbonate interaction I heard of has me wondering if that has something to do with it.. gotta read up. I also missed the Excel dose yesterday so the tank went three days without additional carbon sources available. I wonder if that added to the problem.

Yucky chemistry!
>Sarah

[bigben]

how about your ca and alk? were they out of whack, too? just wondering how much uptake is from those sources vs. the co2 addition.

[Samala]

Good idea to try and follow that.. guess I'll have to cave and get test kits for them. I took a water sample to the local and shop and had them test Ca and alk.. alk came up like 1.8 meq and Ca around 390.. a little low, not terrible. pH runs 8.3 to 8.8 from dark to peak light cycle.. so I'm still thinking its depletion of carbonic acid in the tank by photosynthesis driving up the pH.

I took the lid of the tank yesterday and had slightly better pH follow through.. 8.1 (which is about normal) to 8.6 high at the peak in the light cycle. Still a 0.5 difference.. a lot of ions leaking away.

Once I get a handle on Ca/alk through the day that should answer some questions.. right?

:) Is that a great blue heron in your avatar now?

>Sarah

[Samala]

I got a much better shot today now that the filaments have grown (well if they're filaments, stil havent been to the library...)<br>
<img height=265 width=400 border=1 src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v285/slardizabal/grass/flower49c.jpg"><br>

Bigger pic on the website.. :)
>Sarah

[bigben]

schweet! i don't have a clue as to what it is, though.

sent you an email.

--ben

..yes, it's a blue heron. he gobbled a couple of whiting that we caught.

[Fredfish]

Hi Sarah. Your tank is looking good. Nice growth on the star grass!

I'm glad you were inspired to do some research into water flow in seagrass/seahorse areas. I soooo wish I could personally check out some of the seagrass areas in Florida.

My tank and refugium setup are mostly done and I will be testing my flow dispersal device tonight.

Fred.

[Samala]

Hi Fred - thanks! The stargrass is almost invasive at this point. I mentioned that the rhizomes have been dividing all over the place.. well they've invaded the shoal grass areas and are reaching to the back corners of the tank. Pretty soon I'll have a lawn of stargrass going here.

I will be back in Florida in early June this year and I've got a list of questions I'd like to try to answer. Plus get some pictures of seahorses and pipefish, and anything else that likes the grass beds, in the wild. I'm hoping to find Halophila decipiens as well.

I also was PMing another RCer who found stargrass back in late Jan and got it to grow and flower in his tank too! So I'm beginning to believe this is a pretty easy seagrass to get to grow.

Keep me up to date with your tank.. I'm very interested in how you're going to disperse the flow as I havent yet rigged up my contraption for it. :)

>Sarah

[Triterium]

Sarah, I know you've mentioned this somewhere but im too lazy to find it...what type of lights are you using. PCs come to mind, but i was curious to the kelvin rating. Ive decided not to heat my greenhouse next winter so i'll need to setup an indoor tank to overwinter the plants.

BTW, id be happy to buy some of the star grass from you ;)

Oh...and what happened to pictures on your home page? :(

[Fredfish]

Are you going on plantbrains plant collecting trip? I'm so jealous!

My testing is done and my flow dispersal device works well. Too well. :o

The way the two tanks are set up, I have a maxijet pushing water from the seahorse tank to the refugium. The powerhead is only pushing the water up about 2 inches so its still pushing a decent volume into the refugium.

There are 3 3/4" overflows back into the seahorse tank. The water is directed 90 degrees downward into an acrylic box that is as wide as the tank, 7" tall and 2" deep. There is a slot along the entire bottom edge of the side allowing water back into the seahorse tank. I'll try to post pics tomorrow if I have time.

I get lots of current in the refugium: too much for seahorses I would think. There is almost no current in the seahorse tank. None.

Back to the drawing board.

Fred.

[Samala]

Fred - I'd really like to go on Tom's marine trip but I havent decided yet. There is a sci meeting that same weekend that I should really go to.. plus I'd like to take some vacation earlier in the summer before FL gets scorching (and mosquitoes get unbearable).

Its a shame about the dispersal design.. but only engineers get it right the first time (and even then.. well.. not always.) Keep at it.

Adam - Maybe if my roomie snaps more shots of me half asleep.. :p

I'm using 6700K PC lights.. 96W over the 10gallon, with substrate and legs the drop from lights to the bottom is about 12". Deeper than 16" and I think I remember Bill or Peircho saying to use MH. 6700K simply because experience in FW tells me to use between 5000 and 7500K for plant growth. 10,000K may work just fine though.. actinic does zip for the plants as far as I know. Macro's may like some actinic.

>Sarah

[Samala]

Ok Ben, there's a lot more to this crazy CO2, carbonate uptake dissolution game than I thought. Within the confines of a ten gallon tank I'm not sure how many of these processes are occurring.. but I found an excellent paper online about it from the Zostera lead guy Zimmerman.. try this article for starters. Adam, you might be super interested in this for your own 180. The downside of this article is that I have to look up practically every other word.. like "advection". So much to learn! :)

http://aslo.org/lo/toc/vol_47/issue_6/1751.pdf

>Sarah

[Triterium]

Sarah, what kind of nitrate test kit are you using? I wanted one that had an accuracy (or is it precision, hmmm) of 1ppm. All the ones at my LFS are between 5-10.

[Samala]

Seachem for now since it gets down to 2mg/ml NO3... I was also looking for something more 'precise'. Its a good kit, but I wanted one that has narrower ranges too.

Suggestions anyone?

>Sarah

[Triterium]

maybe this...

http://www.nitrate.com/index.htm

[Triterium]

Heres the one I think may be worth a try. A little expensive though...

http://www.nitrate.com/fntk2.htm

It says...
Accuracy: approx. 1 ppm for Std Range, approx 0.1 ppm for Low Range kits.

[Samala]

A little expensive for someone who likes to neurotically test their water like me... ;) And it says they'll handle salty water, but not salt water. ?? Its a good find though! I'll check around too.

Edit: Didnt see that last post.. ;)

Edit2: Maybe Lamotte? Sounds familiar from the FW boards.. http://www.lamotte.com/pages/aqua/testkits.html

>Sarah

[Triterium]

Looks like its about the same price (~$1/test)

http://www.aquaticeco.com/index.cfm/fuseaction/product.detail/iid/467/cid/3939

[LanT]

I would like to buy some of your stargrass if it ever gets too evasive. I won't be ready for two months, but just telling you in advance so you don't throw them in the trash.

[Samala]

Triterium.. I think I may be going with the Lamotte test.. check some of the other suppliers they have listed on the company website, a few were less expensive than AquaticEco.. but you're right.. its still an expensive kit. What can you do.. one less night at the bars.. right? :p

Lan - I can add you to the list.. ;)

I also updated my website for five-ish weeks, figured I'd sneak one in this past weekend since I had a free half hour as I'll be out on field stuff this week until I go to Las Vegas (:D!)

>Sarah

[shane 1111]

hi Samala wear did you get this sea grass?