In-Wall 180 Project

[jarhed]

Ehydo,

Yep, I hosed down all of the rock for about 20 minutes in an 18gal rubbermaid in my back yard last weekend, then hosed them off again on the patio. As much rinsing as I've ever done on any base rock, I've never seen base rock not crumble and dust some. No prob. The tank was clear this morning with minimal cloudiness. It should be no more than a couple days before the bacteria start grabbing hold of the sand. I've never really washed sand and I added it regularly to my 40gal because I vacuumed it well every month. I never had a huge problem with cloudiness afterwords either. I guess I just had plenty of bacteria.

Thanks Reef Addict! Just have to clean up the wiring in the closet, hook up the Calcium Reactor (get the bottle filled first), and get some trim and paint on the front.

I think it's going well. As a matter of fact, during the entire build I havent had very many problems at all. Only problems were the ones caused by people (read: AC CONTRACTORS). :D

Once the rest of the rock is in, I can then go sell my body for chump change to buy livestock. :lol:

[jarhed]

Ok

Havent done much updating lately, but I'm adding the Korallin reactor tonight. Need more rock and sand, going to re-use my sand from the 40gallon. Have it all cleaned up and it's drying in the sun now. Got an Angel fish with a messed up right eye. Seems to have injured himself two days after I put him in the tank. I had him in a 10gal QT for a week. I made the LFS feed him and he fed well, acted well. I think he ran into a rock or something. Has been hiding for two days now. He's a BiColor Angel. Beautiful yellow and navy blue.

My Goby decided to hop out of the tank, not sure why.

Everything seems ok so far. Just gotta get more rock in and start picking up coral once I get the reactor working stable. Also, my skimmer is starting to produce less bubbles. Thinking it's time to clean out the injector, as well as the cup and reaction chamber.

Pics tomorrow

[jarhed]

Pics:

Full body shot: :D
http://users.adelphia.net/~jarhed/images/Tank005.jpg


Right side:
http://users.adelphia.net/~jarhed/images/Tank006.jpg


Left side:
http://users.adelphia.net/~jarhed/images/Tank007.jpg


Side shot:
http://users.adelphia.net/~jarhed/images/Tank008.jpg


Reactor running still into effluent cup. Trying to dial in the C02 properly. The flow from the regulator decides to change on it's own. Slows down quite a bit and takes forever for me to increase it to 10 bubbles per minute without going too fast. Very strange.
http://users.adelphia.net/~jarhed/images/Tank009.jpg


Room is still a mess. Skimmer is down for cleaning right now. I havent gotten wiring cleaned up yet. Also, I've been trying to find some sort of rack that would fit in the back, but all in the stores are way too wide. I dont want it coming out from the back wall more than 24". I may end up just hanging a shelf up near the ceiling for the ballasts, then putting a topoff tub drilled with the Kent valve on the current platform, and a thin trashcan underneath the wooden stand:
http://users.adelphia.net/~jarhed/images/Tank010.jpg


New evap fan blowing into the sump water. $9.00 at Kmart:
http://users.adelphia.net/~jarhed/images/Tank011.jpg


Shrooms, RBTA and very active Chromis:
http://users.adelphia.net/~jarhed/images/Tank012.jpg


Thats it for now! More later as I get more rock and get more organized! :cool:

[NexDog]

The tank is so clean! :D

[jarhed]

Originally posted by NexDog
The tank is so clean! :D

Well, yeah but it's only a week old! :lol: Give it time, it'll be mess soon! Just noticed the start of some algae growth on the sides and back today, as well as the new white rock. Give it a week and it'll be as nasty as everyone elses! :D

Guess I should find another Goby to help me keep the sand clean.

[Bax]

Nice progress jarhed!

Soon, you'll only have to add your favorite beverage to a a glass of ice, and sit back and enjoy. :)

[bheron]

Awesome dude! Really, I've been following this from day one and you did a great job. I really love the aquascaping even though its not done yet. I'm going for more of an open, clean look like yours is now.

Nice!

[jarhed]

Thanks guys!! Actually, my reward was NOT doing heavy construction for the first weekend in about two months!

Felt good to finally relax one weekend. Course, I couldnt keep my nose out of the tank room. :lol:

As far as the aquascaping, I have plenty of big cavities in the rock for the fish to hide and whatever other shallow water reef activities may want to go on. The trench isnt very deep, but it will be a trench nonetheless. Already plenty of snail/hermit/fish activity in the canyon. I think I'm going to bring it closer together though. Still wide enough that I can vacuum it and keep the sand as pristine as possible, but closer.

Yeah, the open sand look is important for the image I'm trying to portray. The corner end has a LOT of sand showing and of course, that is by design. I'll put a few zoos or a clam or such in that area to catch folks' eyes as they walk by.

[jarhed]

By the way,

Just wanted to share this: After putting the clip on clip evaporation fan onto the sump and blowing directly into the water, the temp averages about 76-77 or so with the door to the room open during the day, 79 at night when the lights are on and the door is open, and about 80-81 with the lights on, room door closed, and air conditioning keeping the house at 77.

Use an evap fan. Trust me. Even if you use a chiller also, it just might keep your chiller from coming on as much, saving you BEAUCOUP bucks when you pay your electric bill.

[jarhed]

Double post, delete.

[springerhd]

What are the dimensions of your fish room and do you like the size for its minimal intrusion or do you need more space? You probably noticed I'm planning 5x10 for mine and am curious if this is enough space.

[jarhed]

The dimensions are 64"x75". Not much room at all. Although I really like the corner view, I really had no choice. No room to go otherwise. :D

I definitely need more space, but I'm slowly and methodically deciding on where to put things to free up as much movement room as possible.

If at all possible, I would go a little deeper than 5" as you'll be falling over yourself and equipment when trying to get to the end of the room. Sometimes I wish I hadnt built the shelf on the end and would have just left the stand the same dimensions as the tank.

The 10' span is great though! You'll have room to reach both sides of the tank!!!

[Morgandy]

looks great, congrats!! can you do me a favor? can you take a pic of the water level going into the overflow, and, down into the overflow? we're trying to fix an issue here, so curious about some things with overflows right now. THX!!

[jarhed]

Originally posted by avansickle
looks great, congrats!! can you do me a favor? can you take a pic of the water level going into the overflow, and, down into the overflow? we're trying to fix an issue here, so curious about some things with overflows right now. THX!!

No prob,


From the top:
http://users.adelphia.net/~jarhed/images/overflow001.jpg


From the back:
http://users.adelphia.net/~jarhed/images/overflow002.jpg


From the back again:
http://users.adelphia.net/~jarhed/images/overflow003.jpg

Notice that the water is not falling very much. The reason is that I used to have a tube sticking out of the top of the Stockman in the 3/4" pipe. This caused flushing, no matter how short I made the tube. When I pulled the tube out the last time to shorten it some more, I noticed that the flushing stopped completely. This has a good and bad point. Good point is that there is no flushing. Bad point is that the water flow into the overflow box is not very fast, which means that the film on top of the water, no matter how much it's being broken up by the return jets, is not sucked into the overflow very much. If it gets to a point that the return jets are not sufficiently breaking up the film, I put the tube back in the end and it flushes a little but the flow is faster, sucking down the film into the filter sock.

[mako56]

Looks really great man.

[Morgandy]

Yeah, it's the film issue that we're having too, so I wanted to see your water level going through the teeth, and how far the drop. It's interesting you have the filmy situation too. We have a ton of surface turbulance, but it is always floating still, dispersing, but not draining! We have about a 2 inch drop into the overflow. I've been messing with it like crazy all week, and sent pics to AGA yesterday to see what ideas they have for the drain pipe adjustments, or lowering the tank water level itself, etc.. (Plus our anti-siphon holes in the returns are making crazy noise recently too, the water hissing that discharges out those holes. (argggghhhhh) )

Do your returns give you enough surface movement since they're so low? Do you think you're going to have to augment with some small pumps? And I forget, did you go with the Barracuda pump?

thx for the pics, I'm still studying them to see if any lightbulbs go off for cures.

[Morgandy]

Also, do your returns even have the holes drilled for the siphon break?? If so, they are under water there? Trying to piece a number of puzzle pieces together here. thx!

[Morgandy]

Mako56, what is your thread for your tank? I just looked at your gallery, and want to see how you did some stuff too, but can't find the thread. Or Jarhead, do you know what his is? thx!!

[mako56]

Hey avansickle, I don't really have a thread I started one on the Fox Valley Wisconsin reefers club section but its not the same my tank is done, actually finished it up today. Just need a few more critters. Maybe I should start one in here. It is a good learning experience to see where other people did good and bad.

[Morgandy]

Well, I was looking at your gallery (LOVE those overflows!), and wondering what your lights are and where you got them? Start a thread and lay out all the specs why don't ya? Also, how is the Barracuda working? Is it thumping at all? thx..

[jarhed]

Originally posted by avansickle
Yeah, it's the film issue that we're having too, so I wanted to see your water level going through the teeth, and how far the drop. It's interesting you have the filmy situation too. We have a ton of surface turbulance, but it is always floating still, dispersing, but not draining! We have about a 2 inch drop into the overflow. I've been messing with it like crazy all week, and sent pics to AGA yesterday to see what ideas they have for the drain pipe adjustments, or lowering the tank water level itself, etc.. (Plus our anti-siphon holes in the returns are making crazy noise recently too, the water hissing that discharges out those holes. (argggghhhhh) )

Do your returns give you enough surface movement since they're so low? Do you think you're going to have to augment with some small pumps? And I forget, did you go with the Barracuda pump?

thx for the pics, I'm still studying them to see if any lightbulbs go off for cures.

I think the returns you are referring to are my closed loop returns. The sump returns are up high on either side of the overflow box. The point up along the water surface to breakup any film. They do a pretty good job. Only one has a nozzle on it because I wanted to see how the other would do without it. I'll be getting another nozzle.

No small pumps are going in my tank at all. I have had it with powerheads. Suction cups are unreliable and it's only a matter of time before one drops into the sandbed, not to mention, I like the clean look without powerheads. My closed loop is more than capable of handling any needed flow. My closed loop returns dont need siphon break holes, nor do my sump returns because I have a check valve between the pump and the returns. The check valve has been working beautifully. I'll probably replace the check valve once per year to prevent any flooding. The trick is to keep my sump return nozzles as close to the surface as possible, so if the check valve does fail, the siphon wont suck much water from the tank.





I went with a PanWorld for the return pump.

[Morgandy]

Okay, no, I knew they were the main return lines, they looked a little deeper, but maybe just the angle. My goal in life, my ONE goal is to get the stupid small pumps the heck out of our tank. But, since we have no closed loops, will have to leave a couple in. How is the panworld? Is it quiet? We're about to get a 4th replacement for our sequence barracuda. Btw, your tank looks so amazing, like it's just floating in the room , very excellent work you did. Is the trim up yet?

[mako56]

I have learned you don't have to have a drilled tank for a closed loop. Thats one of the things I did wrong with mine (no holes for it) but I learned of a way to do it that is almost as good.

[jarhed]

Originally posted by avansickle
Okay, no, I knew they were the main return lines, they looked a little deeper, but maybe just the angle. My goal in life, my ONE goal is to get the stupid small pumps the heck out of our tank. But, since we have no closed loops, will have to leave a couple in. How is the panworld? Is it quiet? We're about to get a 4th replacement for our sequence barracuda. Btw, your tank looks so amazing, like it's just floating in the room , very excellent work you did. Is the trim up yet?

The panworld is beautifully quiet! I definitely recommend them. Wait, you've replaced your barracuda four times?????? Why would you buy another?

Trim isnt up yet, havent had the time/resources to get going on that yet. I'm going to give it a shot myself if I can find a mitre box and saw. I'm horrified of trashing very expensive trim with my inexperience! :eek:

[Morgandy]

No no no...not paying a cent for these replacements!! They're paying all return shipping fees too for each one until we get a working one. The replacement next week, that'll be our last go at it, and then we'll find a different pump. The balidor motor is supposed to be tops though, and MDM has a really good reputation and quality stuff, so it is really surprising to us (and them) that every one has had major problems.

Mako, how did you do your closed loop? I have lots of ideas and seen pics, but still wanting to look at all options. PM me... if not, sorry if we're taking over your thread Jarhead!!

OKay, I'm still doing battle with the surface film tonight..determined to get it resolved.

[NexDog]

Originally posted by jarhed
Pic of the sump. The valve on the right side is for the skimmer pump pickup, the one on the left is for the return pump pickup. The first baffle on the right is the one that came loose. Going to go pickup some #16 and "git-er-done!!" :D

http://users.adelphia.net/~jarhed/images/sumpdetail.jpg
Just rereading this thread to steal your ideas. :D

Think I'll be drilling my sump for pump and skimmer outlets too. Can you show me a full shot of the sump with overflow draining into it and how the skimmer flows back into the sump?

Which PanWorld did you get - the 150PS?

[baja_hammer2003]

nice

[baja_hammer2003]

nice

[jarhed]

Nexdog, you can steal as many ideas as you want! :D I stole em all from other tanks here on RC!

I'll try to get as full a shot as I can. My tank room is really more of a closet and I dont think the camera can get it all in one shot. Just so you know before I put up the pics, the overflow comes down and drops into the right chamber into a filter bag. Thats also where the skimmer picks up. Then flows through the middle. The skimmer returns right over the right baffle into the middle but drops into some rubble rock so the microbubbles can be kept busy trying to escape them, rather than flowing farther over into the fuge.

The return pump is the PanWorld 50PX-X. Works beautifully. Not too fast, not too slow. Only 90W of power.

Thanks Baja!!

[NexDog]

I'm just reading this thread:

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=550482&perpage=25&pagenumber=1

With its arguments for less flow through the sump equalling better skimming results, less power, less noise etc. That 50PX-X is still rated at over 1000GPH - I think I'm leaning towards the 50PX now at half that.

So is your middle chamber your fuge? I'm actually thinking about eliminating a left drain/skimmer section and running one overflow directly into the skimmer and increase fuge size.....Hmmm, so many choices

[djr2001]

care to post more pix of the electrical panel and more details? I'm thinking of doing something similar when I build my fishroom.

[Psyire]

Jarhed,

I just finished reading this whole thread. Very nice setup! I'm in the process of starting my 180 as well and I've been going through some of the same things/situations as yourself. Glad to see you have worked through them so far and things have progressed at a nice rate. Keep up with the awesome work and I'm sure you'll find time to enjoy it soon enough!

[jarhed]

Originally posted by NexDog
I'm just reading this thread:

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=550482&perpage=25&pagenumber=1

With its arguments for less flow through the sump equalling better skimming results, less power, less noise etc. That 50PX-X is still rated at over 1000GPH - I think I'm leaning towards the 50PX now at half that.

So is your middle chamber your fuge? I'm actually thinking about eliminating a left drain/skimmer section and running one overflow directly into the skimmer and increase fuge size.....Hmmm, so many choices

That size pump sounds like it wouldwork just fine but honestly, in my 60gallon sump, there is not much flow going through the fuge. The surface is nice and turbulent, like I want it, but there is no heavy flow there at all. Here's a pic:

http://users.adelphia.net/~jarhed/images/fuge.jpg

[jarhed]

Originally posted by djr2001
care to post more pix of the electrical panel and more details? I'm thinking of doing something similar when I build my fishroom.

Here ya go:

http://users.adelphia.net/~jarhed/images/electrical.jpg

Of course, I'm thinking there will most likely be some changes. Originally, the four switches were supposed to handle the following from the left:

1=right side loop pump
2=skimmer pump
3=return pump
4=left side loop pump

However, after realizing that it's best for me to put the loops on timers, I'm going to move them. I'll probably have to create another small panel with plugs apart enough that I can fit timers in. The loops will alternate six hour intervals with 15 minute overlaps, and be down for about 5-6 hours at night.

The skimmer and return pump will stay on the 2&3 switches. I may use the right side switch for the mixing/filling pump, (a rio 2100) which I'll put in the bin that will go under the stand in the corner. The left side switch may go to a ceiling fan, not exactly sure yet.

[jarhed]

Originally posted by Psyire
Jarhed,

I just finished reading this whole thread. Very nice setup! I'm in the process of starting my 180 as well and I've been going through some of the same things/situations as yourself. Glad to see you have worked through them so far and things have progressed at a nice rate. Keep up with the awesome work and I'm sure you'll find time to enjoy it soon enough!

Thanks Psyire!

I'm learning more and more as I go. Found a nice little trail of snail eggs on the back wall the other day. Waiting to see what happens to them. All the extra sand, including the Southdown is dried out finally. I'm waiting to get the rest of the rock before I put them in. The rocks will go in on the right side of the tank, not too high, then the sand will go around it. I want the rocks on the bottom to reduce any shifting.

More pics of sump setup. Lots of cleanup of wires to do as soon as I figure out how I want it all routed:

http://users.adelphia.net/~jarhed/images/leftsump.jpg

http://users.adelphia.net/~jarhed/images/rightsump.jpg

[jarhed]

BTW, Nexdog,

You can see in the last pic the return from the Skimmer. It just elbows down from the skimmer and drops at the beginning of the fuge over the rocks (which you can see in the fuge pic). Here are more detailed (I think) pics of the drain and return from/to the center overflow, and the skimmer return. Pardon the ghetto piece of wood. :D

http://users.adelphia.net/~jarhed/images/drainreturn.jpg

http://users.adelphia.net/~jarhed/images/skimmerreturn.jpg

[djr2001]

Originally posted by jarhed
BTW, Nexdog,

You can see in the last pic the return from the Skimmer. It just elbows down from the skimmer and drops at the beginning of the fuge over the rocks (which you can see in the fuge pic). Here are more detailed (I think) pics of the drain and return from/to the center overflow, and the skimmer return. Pardon the ghetto piece of wood. :D

http://users.adelphia.net/~jarhed/images/drainreturn.jpg

http://users.adelphia.net/~jarhed/images/skimmerreturn.jpg

Thanks Bro, whats inside the electrical panel itself? I think I might have an idea but do you mind sharing?:)

[jarhed]

No prob!

You mean inside of the big junction box?

The panel itself splits up two circuits I ran into the room. The head of each circuit is on GFCI's (you can see them at the top). The bottom eight outlets (four outlet boxes) are split into two by removing the tabs. The very bottom four outlets are on the switches, while the top outlet on the four boxes are always on.

The top eight boxes are on the second circuit and are always on. The junction box just brings the appropriate wires together. Is that what you mean? Not sure if I can do a schematic but I'll try if you want. That is my first time doing any electrical.

[NexDog]

Thanks for the pics. Every bit helps.

Just been up the builders today finalising details. My fish "room" is 2m wide and 4m long so not huge. The room will be 5" lower than the rest of the house on a cement pad. That way if the tank breaks, 250g water won't flow into the house but will stay in the fish room and go down the drain. I'm also getting them to install 2 auto (heat activated) fire extinguisher kits above the tank. Building with safety in mind for sure.

Hopefully we are going to start on the footings and pads on August 10th. :)

[bheron]

Hey Jarhead, nice work!

Are you planning on putting your LR directly on the tank bottom? Are you worried about them shifting at all? I used eggcrate before and am thinking about some other ideas so I dont have to put them directly on the glass.

Also, having them rasied up a bit (like on PVC) will allow better flow. Thoughts?

[jarhed]

bheron,

I actually have scrap acrylic underneath the rocks on the bottom. I thought about raising them up with pvc but with my luck, sand would shift and that ugly PVC would end up showing. Would drive me nuts (short drive of course).

[bheron]

got it. cool.

[jarhed]

Boy, I'm an idiot. :rolleyes:

So, I cleaned up the mess of a fish closet last weekend. Had to because after the last topoff water accident, I decided to stop being lazy and get it setup properly.

Saturday night, the feed tube from my aqualifter pump that empties into the sump slipped out. It draws water from a 5 gallon jug. Well, needless to say, when the float switch said "I need water", the aqualifter proceeded to pump every drop out of the jug onto the floor. Oh, and let it be known, pressure treated lumber DOES leak water. It went underneath the carpet at the door to the room. :mad2: Course, when I fill up the 5gallon jug from the RO, I always forget that I left the water on filling the jug, and... yep you guessed it, overflow the jug. Only ONCE did I not do that.

So, I decided to get it done properly. I built a shelf to mount the ballasts up in the back corner closer to the ceiling, then I put an 18gallon rubbermaid with a Kent Float Valve in it to supply it from the RO/DI supply on top of the little corner stand. Then the aqualifter draws from the rubbermaid and feeds the sump.

Of course, I had to make a stupid mistake on that setup also. The pump was to pump RO/Kalk makeup water into the sump, which is about 3 feet lower. Yeah... You know what happened. The rubbermaid wouldnt fill up for some reason..... It siphoned out into the sump. Man. Thats two strikes.

So, I setup the aqualifter to pump the water UP into the overflow compartment of the tank. Gotta set it up permanently, but it's not going to pump anytime soon because I'm waiting for the excess water to evaporate out of the tank. Spec Gravity was only down to 1.023, so it's not too bad. Just dont want to change it too fast.

Pics tonight.

[Bax]

So it's situation normal ... TFU ... right? :)

You're doing great jarhed, keep it up!

[djr2001]

Originally posted by jarhed
No prob!

You mean inside of the big junction box?

The panel itself splits up two circuits I ran into the room. The head of each circuit is on GFCI's (you can see them at the top). The bottom eight outlets (four outlet boxes) are split into two by removing the tabs. The very bottom four outlets are on the switches, while the top outlet on the four boxes are always on.

The top eight boxes are on the second circuit and are always on. The junction box just brings the appropriate wires together. Is that what you mean? Not sure if I can do a schematic but I'll try if you want. That is my first time doing any electrical.


Thats good enough for me.. I know exactly what you're saying.. I was thinking about taking that shortcut myself (using two gfci outlets to feed everything else) I was only concerned about shorting out something....

[mako56]

Just wanted to pass this along. I did something like this not quite as fancy but I ran all (16) outlets through one gif which was working fine until one morning I came home from work and something had kicked the gfi off during the night and all the power was off, NOT GOOD . The next day I put in a outlet box not on the gfi to hook up my return and closed loop pump. Never found out why it kicked off and it has never done it again but I never want to go through that again.

[jarhed]

Yeah,

I have all of the pumps on one GFCI, the lights and accessories on another. I may pull the light and accessory GFCI off, but the pumps seriously need to stay on one. Either that or I'll buy an individual GFCI for the four main pumps (return, skimmer, two closed loop), and put the Calcium Reactor, autotopoff on another, then the lights, and fan on their own.

[springerhd]

Originally posted by jarhed
Yeah,

I have all of the pumps on one GFCI, the lights and accessories on another. I may pull the light and accessory GFCI off, but the pumps seriously need to stay on one. Either that or I'll buy an individual GFCI for the four main pumps (return, skimmer, two closed loop), and put the Calcium Reactor, autotopoff on another, then the lights, and fan on their own.


Why are you more worried about the pumps being on a GFI than the lights? I would set it up the other way around, I think I'm more likely create a short with a broken light bulb than to have a pump short out. Is there something I'm missing?

[jarhed]

Water + Electricity

[springerhd]

yeah, but with most pumps the water and motor compartments are seperately sealed. The odds of water getting through both is slim, but if the GFI trips for some freak reason as they sometimes do, you're tank could be without circulation for who knows how long which will kill it faster than anything.

[mako56]

Yep I know it when I got home my shrimp were dead all the fish looked like they were going to die (two of them did) but the rest came back to life. I have a cucumber that pushed his guts out and I don't understand but it is still alive somehow. But now I have an ick problem to take care of and I think things are getting better. I just am not taking that chance again. Maybe I am wrong but we will just have to see. I am guessing that the power was off somewhere between 7 and 10 hours. Maybe having them on two different gfci's will be a better setup I don't know I am not an electrician either if someone out there reads this please let me know.

[NexDog]

Jarhead - how quiet is that PanWorld?

[jarhed]

Originally posted by mako56
Yep I know it when I got home my shrimp were dead all the fish looked like they were going to die (two of them did) but the rest came back to life. I have a cucumber that pushed his guts out and I don't understand but it is still alive somehow. But now I have an ick problem to take care of and I think things are getting better. I just am not taking that chance again. Maybe I am wrong but we will just have to see. I am guessing that the power was off somewhere between 7 and 10 hours. Maybe having them on two different gfci's will be a better setup I don't know I am not an electrician either if someone out there reads this please let me know.

Thats a very good point! I could pull the GFCI's from where the power comes in and replace those with hard wired receptacles, then put a gfci on maybe the return pump and skimmer, leaving the closed loops plugged into an always on outlet. hmmm....

Nexdog: The Panworld is very quiet compared to my other pumps. It's about the same as the Iwaki's. Considering it replaced a GenX PCX 40 that sounded like a dying freight train, I'm completely and absolutely satisfied with it! :D

[jasert39]

i am new to this site and am thinking about going to sw and reefs but this thread has given me a lot of ideas and information on how to complete them. jarhead you have a great setup there.

[NexDog]

Thanks jarhead. I'm going to get 100PS or maybe just the 50. I thought about 2 CL's like you but I think I'm going to go with one Sequence Hammerhead on an OM 4-Way.

BTW, you have Iwaki's on both your CL's? How much flow do they pump? Ah, one other thing, what do you have powering your skimmer? I know it's been covered so forgive me. :D

[agarza]

jasert39

<img src="/images/welcome.gif" width="500" height="62"><br><b><i><big><big>To Reef Central</b></i></big></big>

I've always wanted to do that

[agarza]

So much I did my first double post sorry :D

[Knyght]

Your moving that tank by yourself reminds me of the old adage, "Where there is a will, there is a way".
It`s really great to see a thread where someone has the courage to do everything themself. *With the exception of the helper :D*
http://devildog1.home.mindspring.com/fishroom/430051.jpgKid`s
Kid`s are the cutest at that age I think ;) I`m sure he helped make sure the screws were all the way flush LOL.

Looking great so far :thumbsup:
Tagging along to see your updates.

:beachbum:

[jarhed]

:D

Thanks Knyght!

I'll try to get some new pics soon. The camera doesnt seem to like to shoot throught the glass, so I cant show you my new SPS with any decent clarity. I gotta figure out how to use the thing I guess.

Two fish added, two fish dead. The BiColor Angel was from a pet store in Fontana (NEVER BUY FISH FROM THERE. THEY ARE ALL SICK!!!), a beautiful Foxface from Coral Oasis. And one chromis jumped, not sure why. They are negligible though cause they are so cheap.

Parameters are all stable, calcium at 390 last Monday, will check again tonight. No nitrates, no ammonia, PH is about 8.6 last check (Monday). Diatom outbreak came and went. Only trace algae now. 20 snails shipped from an RCer never made it. Postal Carriers in Fontana are all apparently on crack I think. I'm sure they are dead now. He shipped Monday, it's Friday evening. :rolleyes:

STILL NEED MORE ROCK!! :mad2: Trying to not use the CC's for anything else though. They are up against the wall! :eek2:

Hopefully, I'll be able to grab another 45 pounds from Reeferrocks.com soon. Best base rock I've EVER seen, but $119 I dont want to put on the CC's now.

[NexDog]

Haven't had any luck with Bicolour Angels either. I just think they are difficult to aclimatise. I've tried twice and failed twice. :(

By the way, no pics for a while so you know got this coming. :D

http://japanreef.com/useless.gif

Skipper should add it as a smilie. :D

[jarhed]

HAHAHAHAHA!!!!

Ok, I deserved that! I'll get some asap! :D

[jarhed]

Ok,

A few pictures. Actually, turned out better than I thought. I'll get closer pics as I figure this camera out.

Tank with one of the new SPS:
http://users.adelphia.net/~jarhed/images/tankshot.jpg

[jarhed]

Shot inside the closet showing my new topoff setup. The 18gal rubbermaid has a Kent Float valve in it and about 1/2" of pickling lime on the bottom. I stir it once per day. The float valve is fed by the white RO tube. RO unit is in the garage. There is a clear air tube leading to a pump that is actuated by a float switch in the sump.

http://users.adelphia.net/~jarhed/images/closet1.jpg

[jarhed]

Little more of the closet. You can see the shelf up top that I put the ballasts on.

http://users.adelphia.net/~jarhed/images/closet2.jpg

[NexDog]

So you have 2 float valves on the top-off system, right? One in the sump that tells the top-off container when to dump in water and one in the container (like you said) that controls RO water?

I'm interested to see how the float valves controls the RO water flow as this is one thing I can't image in my head. Want to help me out on that? :)

[jarhed]

Actually, one float valve in the container, and one float switch in the sump.

The Kent Float Valve in the container is completely mechanical. Shuts off water when the float rises to the appropriate level.

The Float SWITCH is electric. When it detects a lower water level, it actuates a pump that pumps water out of the container and into the sump.

Kent Float Switch:
http://www.marinedepot.com/md_viewItem.asp?idproduct=KM1675

[NexDog]

That link is for the Kent Float Valve I believe?

[NexDog]

I found the perfect kit:

http://www.marinedepot.com/md_viewItem.asp?idproduct=KM1651

And will connect to my Maxima perfectly. Another issue solved. :)

I'm thinking about a Tunze osmolator for the auto-topoff kit. Do you reckon that's overkill?

[jarhed]

Not at all! As I understand it, a lot of folks are using the osmolator for topoff.

[Morgandy]

Originally posted by NexDog
Haven't had any luck with Bicolour Angels either. I just think they are difficult to aclimatise. I've tried twice and failed twice. :(

By the way, no pics for a while so you know got this coming. :D

http://japanreef.com/useless.gif

Skipper should add it as a smilie. :D

You need to post this as a vote!!! It is awesome and will drive the point home. Jarhead does awesome by us with his pics though! :bounce2: :bounce3: :dance: :beer:

[jarhed]

:D Thanks Avansickle!

I still gotta figure out how to properly use a camera though. Noticed some serious coraline growth starting on the rocks, the loclines, and the back wall. Good sign!! Still, Calcium is only at 390 right now. Granted I dont need much more than that at this point since I'm in a 180 and not really coral heavy yet. But, I figure if I can get to about 420 and maintain, the SPS I do put in there should respond well.

[SCRUZ]

just found this thread.

jarhed, i don't know you, but i'm proud of you. bravo, looks like fun, thanks for the documentation.

[jarhed]

Thanks Scruz!

I'm pretty proud of the work too! I honestly never thought I could do it all myself! Still learning and still plenty to do though! :D

[jarhed]

OMFG!!!!!!!!!!:eek1:

My electric bill:

$389!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ***??????????? I'll tear the thing down rather than deal with that all year long!!! Hopefully, it was from the AC running trying to keep the house at 77 for the past month during the heat wave! (praying)

[bheron]

damn!!! what was it previously? i hope its not that much of a difference.

[8BALL_99]

lol jarhed,, I it shouldn't be that big of a jump.. Probably 30 bucks a month.. Of course your in California.. soo

[springerhd]

Have you look at the electrical calc here on RC? Assuming your wattages are correct, that will let you assign blame for the power consumption. Maybe shorten the time your lights are on or stagger on/off times. Can't remember if you have a closed loop but if so maybe turn that pump off at night.

I'd feel that same way if (when?) I got an electrical bill like that!

[conda]

What is your normal electric bill a month?

Mine always jumps significantly in July and August, the hottest months of the year. Right now I'm running 3 ACs on high and heading to home depot tomorrow for number 4!

[jarhed]

It was $159 last month!

[NexDog]

You're scaring me.

[jarhed]

Originally posted by NexDog
You're scaring me.

haha!!!

Well, I'm completely HORRIFIED! This simply cant be! I'm trying to convince myself that its from the AC running. I PRAY thats the case because thats an easy fix, just turn it up to 78 instead of the 77 I have it set at and turn on the fans.

The HQ's are only on from 7:15pm to about 1:25am, the VHO's on from 6:15pm til about 2:00am, the return pump is 24/7 of course, the skimmer pump is on from about 7:00pm til 5:00am and till about 9:00am on weekends, the closed loop pumps run alternatively from 7:00pm til 5:00am, never at the same time, the calcium reactor with the Eheim runs 24/7, along with it's aqualifter, and one more aqualifter running occasionally for topoffs between 7:00pm and 5:00am (when the skimmer runs), then a small clip on fan that runs 24/7 blowing into the sump.

I'm giving it one more month and going to adjust the house temp. If it's near the same, it's gotta stop. This is insane!

Going to call Edison ASAP to see if I can do some averaging or whatever solution they can suggest. This just will NOT do at all. Sucks. :mad2:

[NexDog]

To tell you the truth, our electricity bill doesn't alter much between winter and summer. In fact the winter might be a tad more expensive due to running heaters that eat more electricity. But it has been insanely hot here the last 3 months with the AC on 24/7 so I'm going to wait and see what the bill is. I think my planned 400g system might eat $150/mo in electricity but I'm prepared for that.

[Psyire]

You can buy a small device called a kill-a-watt meter and it'll tell you exactly how much power each device you plug into it is using. You can then figure out to the $ how much your tank uses per month. (it calculates kilowatt hours)

[jarhed]

Originally posted by Psyire
You can buy a small device called a kill-a-watt meter and it'll tell you exactly how much power each device you plug into it is using. You can then figure out to the $ how much your tank uses per month. (it calculates kilowatt hours)

Good idea Psyire, know where those are available?

[Bax]

I think I've seen them on Dr Foster et al's web site

[hdtvguy]

ebay $20.00

[8BALL_99]

I'm pretty sure radio shack sells them too.. You could also use a clamp on voltage meter that shows amps.. just convert the amps to watts. voltage X amps=watts. Atleast with the meter you could use it on other homeprojects.. It would probably cost more like 30-50 bucks though.

[mako56]

Hey jarhed Had the same problem here got the bill $306. took down the 75 upstairs and moved the stuff down in the 180. Not bad saved allot of money moving the stuff and the 75 was my first attempt at this so it wasn't user friendly anyways. But like you said the ac was running full blast so I guess it will take a while to see what the tank costs per month.

[jarhed]

I'm having Edison install a radio transmitter on the AC to turn it off during power emergencies. The rep told me that the longest they have done it this year was for two hours. With my sump fan blowing and evaporating water, I should have no problem keeping the temp below 82 degrees considering that the temp has been around 76 with the AC set at 77 during the day.

I'm sticking with 80 degrees during the day when I'm not home and may drop it to 79 in the evening, then back to 80 overnight. I'll see how this week goes. If my bill is around the same next month, I have to make some serious choices.

[NexDog]

Would you take the tank down?

[danielcherian]

Originally posted by NexDog
Would you take the tank down?

Let's hope he doesn't have to resort to that!

[jarhed]

Well, I'm not sure. It would depend on how bad it got. I'm going to play it by ear and see how the next bill is. This cycle ends 8/25 so I'll have a good idea about then.

[NexDog]

What's the cut-off point - $400 maybe? Any more than that and down she goes? But I remember this from OregonReef:

http://oregonreef.com/sub_faq.htm#thirteen

How much is your power bill per month?
I attribute about $300 per month of my PGE bill to my tank’s operation.
I'm sure you have less than a third of Steve's equipment which includes 12 MH bulbs and ballasts and 9 Sequence pumps......

[bheron]

good point. i remember steve saying that oregon had really good power rates tho.

[Bax]

jarhed

Look for ways to become more energy efficient first. I am sure you'll figure it out, you've come to far now!

[jarhed]

Bax,

Yep, your right. And of course, the Edison rep said that she was just about sure it wasnt the tank based on all of the pumps and lights we added up. We both figured the AC running like crazy. So, I'm not going to sweat the tank. I just cut back quite a bit on the AC. Gotta check my temp this afternoon when I get home. I left the temp at 80 this morning.

[Knyght]

As long as your tank temp doesn`t stay above 85 you should be ok. Mine runs around 82-83 in the summer with the AC set at 78. No problems for me yet.

I received some advice from Waterkeeper in my thread.
Originally posted by WaterKeeper
If you peak at 82 I see no need for a chiller. I don't even begin to worry until the tank is constantly around 85 and even there I would explore other methods of heat reduction before adding a chiller.

I`m betting that it is related to your AC. My bill has consistantly been running around $120-$130 a month except last month when it was $199. I lease a duplex and the AC is very old and not putting out like it should. Therefore the inside temp does get around 80 during the hottest part of the day, and we have had plenty of triple-digit days this summer.

As long as you and the family can be comfortable raising the thermostat a little can save alot!! I believe the electric co. here says lowering the temp 1 degree costs an average of $17 a month.

HTH :)

:beachbum:

[jarhed]

Thanks Knyght!

We are just going to HAVE to get used to it. Bought a fan for my boys' room yesterday. Just one to gently blow air over him at night. Already had one in my room and have one blowing in the living room in the GENERAL direction of the thermostat (I think it's very inaccurate. Sometimes it feels cool in there and the thing is telling me it's 81??)

[NexDog]

In the house that we are building we are putting ceiling fans in all bedrooms in the hope that we can away without air conditioning - however, it gets pretty hot....

[8BALL_99]

lol wow no air conditioning.. We keep the house at 70 during the summer and 68 in the winter.. During the day I do have the thermostat set to go to 72 while we are at work but back to 70 by the time we get home.. If I set our thermostat to 78-80 my wife would kill me. :uzi:

[danielcherian]

Well, my father's electric bill this past month was $426 dollars!! He runs one small FW tank, and that's all (fish tank wise). Needless to say, he isn't very happy, and I'm sure the AC will be off for the rest of the year. So much for Texas having affordable energy!

[Psyire]

I don't have AC either.

You could always move to Canada. lol

[Karl K]

Hey! I live in Canada & I'm seriously looking into A/C for my house.

We don't get the tripple digit temps you get, but it is HUMID! Generally around 75-85% in the summer with the temp at 85 to 90 degrees F.

Just the simple fact that the A/C will dry the air will make it more managable.

It's not too much of an initial investment for me as I'm an electrician and an HVAC mechanic. The whole system, installed, will run me about $2300-2500 CAD.

Hope it works out for you.

Karl

[jarhed]

Originally posted by Psyire
I don't have AC either.

You could always move to Canada. lol

True dat!! :D

[jarhed]

Man, I tell ya....

NEVER EVER EVER have your snails or other livestock shipped Priority Mail. Doesnt work and the Post Office could care less.... until the smell starts getting to them.

We tried twice to ship me 40 snails from near San Diego. I even asked after the first failed attempt if we could go express, but I guess that was too much.

From now on, I will buy my livestock at the store or from Marine Depot the same day I pick them up.

Lesson learned. :D

Now I just gotta figure out another way to control this nasty algae until this weekend when I can go buy some snails. I'm about done buying things from RC. Especially livestock. I'll wait for the swaps.

[8BALL_99]

lol snails shipped Priority mail.. I could have told you that was a bad idea.. Nothen less then either fexex overnight or Delta express and pick it up at the airport.. Oh well.. If your having an algae problem I'd recommend you get a few large turbo snails.. you probably won't want to keep them But they will clean the tank in a matter of days.. IT will blow your mind...I dropped about 20 in my 60 gallon.. It was covered with hair algae.. 2 days later there wasn't a spec of any algae anywhere...:eek:

[jarhed]

Yeah, I've always had turbos in the tank, and just picked up another four last Saturday. Not sure how many I have now. About 20 or so, but could stand some more I think.

Problem with the shipment was that the seller right here on RC would only agree to send them priority mail. The first time, the USPS said the package was delivered on Tuesday, according to the tracking number, but didnt give me a card til Thursday, and when I went to the PO to pick them up on Friday, they were stinking bad.

After arguing the point about express mail with the seller via PM, he sent them again last Thursday, said they would be there on Saturday, and of course, the USPS idiots crammed the damaged box into the mailbox today. MAN they stunk!!!

I'll never ever buy or sell again on RC. With a few exceptions, it's been nothing but nightmare after nightmare. No shows, disappearing sellers AND buyers, .... blah!!!

Marine Depot pickups, swap meets, and LFS for me from now on.

[springerhd]

I've had good luck buying here on RC, but that was equipment only. I think you're right about livestock, but I wouldn't completely eliminate it for equipment.

Could just be your seller was a .....

[Bax]

Yeah don't give up yet jarhed, there are probalby some good livestock sellers here. But this deal does sound like a PIA! I have only bought equipment so far and had pretty good experiences except for one set of lights that I am still try to get to run right. I think I got it figured out now. Anyway there's good deals and bad deals every where not just here on RC.

I would think that 20 turbos would eventually keep the algea under control if not get it cleaned up, no?

[jarhed]

Well, I think your right. I did get my lights from here and a bunch of sand, so not all sellers here are bad by any means. It's not always the buyer or sellers fault either. Sometimes, they just get too busy and there really is not any system like Ebay to motivate folks to "git r done" when they promise to come pick up a piece of equipment or make arrangements for you to pickup your purchase.

No biggie though. I'd just as soon not bother trying to sell here any more, I made more money on Ebay. And livestock just is not good being shipped. I know folks have had good experiences with online vendors, but private deals on any livestock shipped is begging for trouble. Bergzy and others are cool for me cause they are local and I can either go pick it up or they have delivered to my work (plus Bergzy has some AWESOME stuff in his tank!), but the point is that RC really wasnt setup for sales. I just dont have the time to deal with all the goblidity-gook that goes along with it. Frag Swaps are ALWAYS a good time though! :D

[AcroSteve]

That seller should not have sent them that late in the week.

Just to be safe, request a monday or tuesday shipment only.

[jarhed]

A few pics. Again, nothing really new but here goes. You can see there are now three SPS in there, including a cool little $5 frag I got today at Coral Oasis:



http://users.adelphia.net/~jarhed/images/tank1.jpg

http://users.adelphia.net/~jarhed/images/tank2.jpg

http://users.adelphia.net/~jarhed/images/tank3.jpg

http://users.adelphia.net/~jarhed/images/condi.jpg


Like I said before, I still need more rock.

[jarhed]

Got my new order of 45lbs base rock from Reeferrocks yesterday. Folks, lemme tell ya something: This rock is the foundation base rock. The cheapest stuff they have. It is more porous than any rock I've seen at any store anywhere in Southern California. Their dry base rock is better quality than anyone elses so-called premium rock. This is the second and most likely the last order I make from them.

I highly recommend them. The pics on their site do NOT do justice to the quality of the rock, so I'll take pictures tonight and let you see why I'm so giddy about it.

[NexDog]

Did you get your latest electricity bill yet?

[NexDog]

jarhead, in my current 50g I have Maxi-Jet 900 powerheads about 12" off the bottom and they still create a dip in the sand in front of them. My new tank is 30" tall and I was thinking of drilling the 8 outlets halfway up at the 15" mark but I'm worried about the sandbed and causing a sandstorm. Each of the 8 outlets should be pushing out 900gph which is almost 4 times as much as the MJ 900.

How tall is your tank and how high up are the CL outlets? And how much is each outlet pushing out? Any sand displacement issues?

[Bax]

jarhed

There you are I was beginning to worry about ya.

Can't wait to see those reefer rocks, I think I may start curing some for my reef project at the house, nice looking rock for the cost.

[jarhed]

Originally posted by NexDog
jarhead, in my current 50g I have Maxi-Jet 900 powerheads about 12" off the bottom and they still create a dip in the sand in front of them. My new tank is 30" tall and I was thinking of drilling the 8 outlets halfway up at the 15" mark but I'm worried about the sandbed and causing a sandstorm. Each of the 8 outlets should be pushing out 900gph which is almost 4 times as much as the MJ 900.

How tall is your tank and how high up are the CL outlets? And how much is each outlet pushing out? Any sand displacement issues?

Didnt get the new bill yet, I hope it's lower. Wife and I have been fighting over the t-stat. She puts it down to 78, I turn it back up to 80 and turn on fans. The tank has stayed around 76 during the day without lights and 78 during the photo period. That little sump fan works WONDERS.

My tank is a standard 180, 72x24x24. I dont remember exactly how high the CL outputs are, I can measure, but honestly it doesnt matter for me because I have the loc-lines on there and can adjust the height and direction at will. I do plan on getting penductors for the CL outputs because I dont think I'm getting enough flow from one side to the other. The pumps run alternate cycles so both are not on at the same time. Penductors will be cheaper than stronger pumps I figure. :D

[jarhed]

Originally posted by Bax
jarhed

There you are I was beginning to worry about ya.

Can't wait to see those reefer rocks, I think I may start curing some for my reef project at the house, nice looking rock for the cost.

Yeah, definitely. If you look at the above pics, the rocks on the left side are part of my previous Reeferrocks order. You'll see the rest tonight as I have to spray them down on the patio to clean them.

[bheron]

wow! looking awesome. i'm thinking about the reeferrocks too. wanna get some before they run out of all their stuff and turn into hirocks!

[jarhed]

Pics of some reeferrocks. Sorry, it was getting dark outside.

http://users.adelphia.net/~jarhed/images/rocks1.jpg


http://users.adelphia.net/~jarhed/images/rocks2.jpg

[jarhed]

Keep in mind that this was 45 pounds of their BASE rock. The CHEAP stuff.

[Bax]

Shaaaweet!

Looks really nice for base rock!

[jarhed]

Yeah, no doubt. Reeferrocks without a doubt has the best quality rock out there. Anyone care to prove me a liar? :D

I think I mispoke (mistyped?) earlier. This is 45 pounds of the FOUNDATION base rock.

Have you seen what their Premium and Collectors Edition rock looks like on their site?

[Bax]

Yup, I was checking out thier site just the other day. I picked up 60 pounds of HIROCKS for my 75, real cheap, but not as nice but fine for base and fuge rock. But these reefer rocks you have will be show rock after 6 months in your tank, ... nice:)
I may use these for my large system in planning.

[rdavis289]

Any news on the new electrical bill? Or how about some more pictures with the new base rock in your tank. I really like your tank and this thread. Keep it going.

[jarhed]

$315 was the new one. Increasing the house temp to 81.

Tank seems to be crashing a bit. I think a bad case of ick. Lost the Blue Tang, two clowns, a purple pseudochromis, and my Picasso Trigger is sick. He had a fresh RO bath yesterday to see if I could relieve him a little. Only him, the six line wrasse, the four blue chromis, and the diamond goby left. The others all seem fine. Corals are fine, parameters are fine, killed off a couple aptasia a few days ago.

Need more snails I think. Tossed a cheap emerald crap and a camelback shrimp in there a couple weeks ago. Havent seen the shrimp in about a week, the emerald is doing well.

Rock is all in and I'll take some pics in a bit. Still think I could use some more though.

[NexDog]

Quarantining one was of the most important things I learned in this hobby. I've only lost one chromis since I started quarantining but he looked sick from day dot.

[jarhed]

Yeah, all were quarantined, the Tang for four weeks, the rest for about 2.5 or so. Dosed copper into the little 10gal qt tank too and changed 2gals every other day. Somehow the ich just slipped throught the cracks. I'm wondering if it came in on some rock that I brought in with the coral I bought.

[NexDog]

Doubt it. Just your quarantine method didn't work. Copper isn't guaranteed to kill all Ich and is just a bad way of doing it. Six week hypo, man. It's the only way. :thumbsup:

[jarhed]

Well, from now on, thats what I'm going to do. I had the SG at about 1.020 or a little less but I think it's time to go down to 1.1 or so for Hypo QT.

[bheron]

jarhed, thats a bummer man. sorry to hear!

nextdog, you say you keep salinity down for 6 weeks? what level?

[NexDog]

Hyposalinity is 1.009. It takes approximately 2 weeks for the initial parasite to be killed off by hypo but you have to do enough for 2 life cycles for some reason or other. Six weeks guarantees that the Ich is definitely dead for sure. I keep a spare 20 gallan tank for hypo QT but when I move to the bigger system I'll use a 50. Kind of hard to QT larger tangs and angels in a 20g.

[jarhed]

No biggie bheron, just growing pains I figure. I learn by doing and losing I guess. :)

[mako56]

Sorry to read of your loss man. I had some trouble too I moved things from the 75 to the new 180 and all seemed good after a couple weeks I came home from work one morning and found my gfci had tripped and all my electric for the tank was hooked up to it. Lost my flame angel and a powder blue that my son bought me for my birthday. It killed all my shrimp and the rest of the fish were very close to dying. Got the power back on and the rest came back guess I got a little lucky there. Then I got a new powder blue, a six line and a copper band butterfly then the ick started not sure if it was from the power thing or the new fish. What I tried was I got some garlic oil gel pills from the drug store and mixed it with there food for about a week and gave them a little more food than usual since then and it is pretty much cleared up now. Someone told me once that keeping the fish well fed is a great way to keep ick away and I am not sure what worked but it is working pretty good. What will the hyposalinity do to rest of the tank?

[NexDog]

Mike, the only way to cure Ich is to eliminate it. Healthy fish that live in a non-stressful environment can usually fight off the parasite but if something happens to stress the fish out then they can succomb very easily to it. And it's so easy to stress fish out - water quality, change in lighting, introducing new fich, water chemical change etc. If you're fish got Ich after introducing new fish that weren't quarantined then it's 99.9% sure that is where it came from.

Hyposalinity is deadly to anything but fish. It will kill all inverts and coral which is why it needs to be done in a separate tank. If you're tank has Ich you can just treat the fish that has the signs. All fish need to be removed and treated and teh main tank needs to remain fishless. Without any host to munch on, the crypto parasite cannot survive.

Hyposalinity

[bheron]

I agree with Nextdog. But, also, agree with Mako as a quick way to combat it. I, too, spotted something on my hippo tang almost a year ago. it was a white spot and he was itching. I started soaking their food in garilc and immediately it went away. I know if it was ich I didnt rid the tank if it, but i just maybe helped their immune system fight it well enough to keep it at bay. They havent shown any signs of the ich at all. but, when i move to my new tank, i'm going to QT qith hypo for 6 weeks.

[jarhed]

Hmmm...

I think I'm going to do a little garlic with the remaining fish before I try to catch them to return to QT. Maybe that will give them some strength to survive the transplant.

The Wrasse is going to be the toughest to catch. He's a master swimmer of course and not stupid enough to just hop in the net like the trigger and goby. The chromis will have to be trapped. The trigger nibbles on my fingers when I put my hand in the tank so he'll be an easy one.

One note, I think the RO bath helped the trigger quite a bit. He really didnt like it and you could see that it was very very uncomfortable, but within 10 minutes of putting him back in the main tank, he seemed just fine. He tends to "rest" (looks as if he's going ahead and dying) in one particular spot at times and I get the net ready for him. Then I turn around from whatever show I was watching and he's swimming around. He continues to defy logic and death. I keep thinking that he wont survive the night, and he keeps throwing it in my face. :)

Since he's not giving up, I'm not going to give up on him. I'm getting the 10gal ready tonight and starting the process of trapping fish. He'll be the first one in and I'll put some of my rubble rock in there to try to make him feel at home. I think this is all going to have to be on the fishroom floor because I really have no other place thats cool enough to keep them. And it'll be easier to maintain the water level in there.

[conda]

What's up with your tank? Haven't seen a post in almost a month.

[Bax]

Yes, let us know how you are doing, hope things have stablized a bit for you.

[jarhed]

Currently medicating with "NoSickFish". Ich killed all but the four Chromis, the six-line Wrasse, and the diamond Goby. Going to pretty much do an 8-day NSF cycle rather than the 7 they recommend. Not adding any fish for another month or so.

Tried trapping fish and I managed to get two Chromis in about two weeks. The Six-Line just laughs at me when he looks at the bottle trap. :) Without being able to get all of the fish out, meds seem like the only alternative at this time. I've read about a lot of folks having great luck with this product, I figured the worst that would happen is I waste $48.

I pulled the nozzles off of the closed loop outlets because it appeared to me that they were actually reducing any decent flow. I'm either going to make or purchase some eductors to get more flow on the SPS.

The SPS frags were all purchased from Coral Oasis, except for some nice pieces picked up from a fellow RC'r. Had one frag bleach yesterday, not sure why. The water temp stays below 80, mostly around the 76-78 degree range.

Held off on a water change for the last four weeks. Algae is well under control, so I could go to a more normal schedule.

Found that my calcium stays around 390ppm. Gotta figure out a way to get that Korallin reactor to give me more. Not sure if reducing the flow of effluent or increasing the bubble count would be a better option. Gotta find time to experiment. Not putting any pickling lime in the makeup water container because of the clouding I got about two months ago.

Managed to get the electric bill down a little over $100. I keep the AC at 80 when home, 81 when at work. Have to fight with the wife who likes 78 or 79 more. Trying to get her to understand that it's easier to put a fan on yourself than to pay another $100 in electricity. :)

At some point, I have to find someone to come in and install the framing I bought around the tank. I've tried to figure it out over the past three weeks, but I am NOT a carpenter by ANY stretch. I may have to just bite the bullet and pay to have it done. Not a lot of work. Also have to texture the drywall so I can paint. Dont want to use the spray cans, so I'll probably have someone come in and knock that out too.

The remaining rock is in, but I think I could use more. It's aging nicely and getting covered in coraline very quickly. One camel shrimp and an emerald crab added about a month ago. Emerald is getting braver. Comes out and hangs out while foraging now. Used to hide all the time. The shrimp has his own little hiding place. My Sebae anenome has pretty much disappeared! Not sure what that is all about. Last I saw him, he was shrunken into a little ball and was still traveling around under the rocks. Went to try to feed him that evening and he disappeared again. It seems to me that they dont like light very much, but that cant be right, can it?

[springerhd]

Good to hear from you again! Sure hope the ich clears up for you.

Do you have any cleaner shrimp? I've found they help keep my hippo tang clean and healthy, either by removing the ich itself or by removing other parasites which leads to less stress on the fish.

Don't know about sebae specifically, but an anemone that doesn't like light just sounds wierd. Probably looking for a spot it likes if its sitll rolling around in a little ball.

[jarhed]

No cleaner shrimp..... yet. I'm a little worried about what the Sally Lightfoot crabs might do to them. hehe

Once I restock, I may see what happens. They are nowhere near as fast as the Sally Lightfoots, so I'm a little antsy about that. Course, the camelback shrimp manages to avoid the crabs... (He only dates clean women....:lol: )

Looks like my latest reactor tweak fixed the low calcium issue. I'm at 420ppm tonight, good thing. Not a lot of demand, but I do have about 6 or seven frags, two of them a decent healthy size.

PH at 8.6, but KH and Alk (Salifert) are a bit elevated, not sure why. My KH is about 13.1, Alk is 4.69. I'd imagine I'd have to figure out why and then figure out a way to get it down to normal (8.0 and 2.8 or so).

[mako56]

Hey jarhed long time no see. I have two Sally Lightfoot crabs and two Skunk Cleaner shrimp they don't seem to bother each other at all. I also have one Neon Golby the is a real cleaner he has his own end of the tank and the other fish come by and he goes over them pretty good. I sure wish I cold figure out the ph thing too sounds like we should mix our tanks up and it would be fine mine can go from 7.8 at night if I don't add kalk to 8.2 during the day and I have a lighted refugium go figure. Someday I might figure out what's going on.

[jarhed]

Kewl!

Thanks Mako! I will probably end up getting a couple cleaners when I restock. I think the camelback should be fine too because he hides out in a cave, so I cant see him getting into a fight with the cleaners if they were so inclined. Still waiting for my order of NoSickFish to medicate the tank.

Has anyone else had any experience with this stuff? Everything I've heard so far has been positive, especially in a world where whole tank treatments tend to not work. I've tried the huge bottle of Kick-Ich and it was like pouring pure water in the tank. Absolutely NO effect whatsoever on anything. Pointless waste of money. :mad:

[jarhed]

Wow!! :eek2:

Just got a call from NoSickFish! I sent an email to them because my package hadnt arrived yet and I wanted to make sure it was sent.

He just said he would send another one right away and if I wanted to reverse the second one I could! He then went on to make sure I understood that his concern is to get me the medication to treat the sick fish asap.

These folks are serious about customer service!!!!! Thats a good sign. I'll let everyone know how the meds work. Course, none of the fish I have currently have any signs of ich, but I can still pretty much guarantee that ich is still in the tank. I'm sure they are carrying it around with them.

Anyone ever have any experiences with Chromis, six-lines, or diamond gobies being resistant to ich? Anyone have any die of ich? I think it's odd that they dont even show symptoms. Course, they are too smart to get into my trap, so I cant pull them unless I drain the tank.

[disbjohn]

I put a tang and six line wrasse in at the same time. The tang had gotten ich, but the six line showed no signs. IME, the six lines are pretty hardy. I also had a friend who's six line had ich, but recovered well.

HTH.

[jarhed]

Interesting. Well, it certainly appears that my chromis, six-line, and diamond goby are at best carriers.

[Morgandy]

Hey there! I went in search of this thread cuz hadn't seen anything in so long, and it is definately one of the more entertaining ones around. How is the ich, how is the tank? Any new pics, are things improving again with it?

[jarhed]

Believe it or not, there are still two chromis in the tank. Almost got one of them last night when he ventured into the net, but TWICE he alluded my old, slow azz.

Havent given up on them. Going fishing again tonight. :D

The other fish (two chromis, six-line, diamond Goby, and a new percula) have been in the 10gal QT for about 8 weeks. None of these fish showed symptoms of ich btw, but everytime a Tang or Angel or Trigger was added to the tank, ich swallowed them up quickly, even after the new fish were QT'd.

Not taking any more chances. I'm not made of money, and constantly buying fish was killing me. EVERYone gets QT now. Matter of fact, any guests that arrive at my front door must go through QT on my back porch before entering the house. :smokin: The 6 weeks of fallow tank does NOT start until the last Chromis leaves the tank. ;) They will all be dosed with copper for another 6 weeks after that.

In the meantime, tank is doing just fine. I think I probably want to get another filter bag, I end up pulling and laundering the one I have every four or five days. With two, I'll always have one ready to go. Parameters are all good, doing regular adjustments on the Korallin reactor and my last test showed about 425 calcium. I've added a few SPS, zoos and other softies, but nothing significant yet. Getting some more colorful SPS this weekend at the swap. Picked up a couple of beautiful brittle-stars from an RC member. They have been hidden ever since. :D I see a leg every now and again. Also have a regular little sand sifter who travels the sandbed. I probably want to add a few more snails, as I'm seeing some empty shells here and there. Normal lifecycle I'm sure because the water is almost pristine.

I havent changed water in about three weeks and think I'll go another because there is very little bioload in the tank now with only two chromis hiding out from me. Currently, this is what is living in the tank:

two blue chromis
1 sally lightfoot crab (not sure where the other one went)
two brittle stars
1 sand sifter star
1 emerald crab
1 camel shrimp
1 feather duster worm

several frags of SPS growing like crazy
one colony of zoos
three small rocks with colonies of cup corals
one large rock with an out-of-control colony of green polyps
one large rock with a fragged up colony of GSP (still a little more to give away)
Beautiful Frogspawn (3 heads) Thanks Bergsy!
1 orange monti cap growing well
1 pagoda
2 different varieties of candy cane
1 small toadstool frag
1 recently split rock of green mushroom
1 small rock of purple mushroom
several small pieces of blue sponge

I think I need more rock! Just going to use some dead rock because it will be cheaper and come live (just like my reeferrocks order) inside of a couple months.

Hopefully, I should be adding fish to the tank in late January or so.

[jarhed]

BTW, I still havent put the framing around the tank. I tried a couple times but made a mess out of the trim. I really really suck at carpentry!

If anyone knows the proper way to install framing, I would appreciate if you came by for a beer some Saturday or Sunday. We could shoot off to Home Depot and pickup whatever is needed (if what I have in the garage isnt right) and knock it out in a couple hours.

[Bax]

Nice to see you're still at it jarhed. Good luck catching those chromis!

Show us pics of your frags!!!!

[got2lb]

Good luck catching those little suckers!!!

If you pay for the plane ticket I'll help you put your trim up. :D We'd have it knocked out in about 15min. What are you having problems with? You pretty much just miter the corners and nail it up. If you know someone that has an electric compound miter saw it makes it REALLY easy and FAST!!!

[jarhed]

Thanks got2lb!

Actually, I bought a cheap mitre box and mitre saw. The mitres arent the problem. The issue is the setback from the drywall surface and the trim. Trying to figure out how to fill that gap and make it look very neat.

I'll get those little buggers Bax!! Almost got em last night but it was my birthday and I was full of cake and other garbage so my reaction time was slower..... Yeah, thats the story I'm sticking with. :D

[got2lb]

How big of a gap do you have from the front of the tank to the wall? Maybe get some 1x2 or 1x4 depending on how big the gap is and rip it to the right width you need. Then when you put the trim up put it flush with the top of the 1x. Stain it or paint it all the same and it will look good. Not sure if that makes sense or not? Basically just like a window jamb. IF that doesn't make sense maybe I can take a picture of what I'm talking about.

[jarhed]

Hmmm...

I think I know what your saying but yes, a drawing or picture would help. I'll try to post a drawing of what it looks like now..

[jarhed]

http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/500/58756crossection.jpg

[got2lb]

Not quite what I was talking about. I'm uploading some photos to photobucket right now that will probably help

[got2lb]

Okay, this is supposed to show the gap from the front of the tank to the wall. Of course this is just an example that I threw together so yours will be different.

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y195/got2lb/DSCF0089.jpg




You just take a piece of 1x you'll have to rip it to whatever width you need and put it in place.

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y195/got2lb/DSCF0090.jpg



Then just take and put your trim up flush to the top of the 1x and so it covers the gap in the wall. Then all you have to do is stain or paint it and you're done!

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y195/got2lb/DSCF0091.jpg


Hope this helps.

Matt

[got2lb]

Crap, sorry the pics are so big, I figured photobucket would resize them.

[jarhed]

Originally posted by got2lb
Crap, sorry the pics are so big, I figured photobucket would resize them.

No prob, I have to wait til I get home anyway. Here at work, "Websense" filters out anything from Photobucket. :mad2: :mad2:

[got2lb]

Well I guess you have something to look foward too then. :D

If this doesn't help then maybe take some pictures of the area you need to put trim up on and maybe I can think of a couple other ideas.

[jarhed]

Kewl, will do. Thanks for the help with this, I'm getting tired of looking at the unfinished wall. :D

[bheron]

Jarhead - I know exactly what you mean about the gap. Try this:

- check out Weatherson's monster thread. I believe its page 5 he details how he does his trim and attacks the same exact issue youre talking about. I know its page 5 b/c I went there like 50 times while planning mine.

You'll see you actually want to attach the trim to the drywall, and then use smaller trim or thin wood to fill the gap. I havent done it on mine yet, but i bought the trim. should be easy.

[jarhed]

Hey bheron!

Yeah, I actually tried to do my trim like his (and most everything else on my setup), but failed miserably. I wish I had a brad nailer like his, it may have worked better. Getting the right trim sorta was tough too, not to mention that the tank has a slight bow (almost 1/4") in the front, which ensures that the strip filler will not contact the glass on the entire length.

I think I may want to buy/rent/borrow a brad nailer and try it again. Probably should get some wet sponges ready to soak up the blood from the brads that are sure to end up in my fingers. :D

[jarhed]

Looks good got2lb!

I'll give it a try like that.

[Ehydo]

I bought a air brad nailer from Harbor Freight for 19.99. it works great

[jarhed]

Originally posted by Ehydo
I bought a air brad nailer from Harbor Freight for 19.99. it works great

:eek2:

Good deal!!! I'm going to get one!

[got2lb]

Wow that is a pretty good deal. You can't buy a hammer for that!

Well will my idea work for your setup?

[jarhed]

Originally posted by got2lb
Wow that is a pretty good deal. You can't buy a hammer for that!

Well will my idea work for your setup?

I think it should work. It's pretty close to exactly what I had tried before except I tried to nail the wood strip directly onto the trim before installing it. Guess I should secure the trip FIRST, then fill the gap.

Like I said, I'm a rank amateur when it comes to carpentry. :D

[got2lb]

I'm only an amateur myself, but you learn from your mistakes. Fortunately on here someone has probably made them before and can usually help out.

I would nail the top piece down first then nail the trim to that and the wall and you should be set! A brad nailer will make it much easier to keep everything straight vs. having to hold the nail and trim and hammer it all at once.

GOOD LUCK! :D Keep us posted.

[jarhed]

OH, I see what your saying!

Yeah, I hear ya on the mistakes. I actually built that room you see there. You can see my learning process in the beginning of the thread. Like I said, I'm no carpenter but I did a half decent job! :D

[jarhed]

Got another Chromis!!

No drugs tonight so my reflexes were better! :bum: j/k!!

ONE MORE CHROMIS TO GO, then I can actually begin my 6 weeks of fallow tank.

Man, this is getting insane! :D

[got2lb]

Might have to just get out the ol' fishin pole and a can of worms and just wait! :D

[jarhed]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6236795#post6236795 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by got2lb
Might have to just get out the ol' fishin pole and a can of worms and just wait! :D

I hear ya!

Whats even worse is last Saturday I was standing there looking at the fish with a scowl on my face, and actually considered removing all the rock!! :eek:

[NexDog]

You need to read this:

How to Catch Fish and Critters in Displays (http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=707656)

[jarhed]

Good stuff!!!

I've used the "feeding out of a net" and "inverted 2ltr bottle" traps. Both work, but tend to take a long time and a lot of attention.

The last few I've been catching in the big net after depositing food in it. I have it rigged near the surface so that all I have to do is twist the handle quickly and he's done. The only escape is jumping over the edge of the net at the surface.

[jarhed]

Some new pics: (dont laugh at my horrible photography skills. I dont know how to use this HP camera)

http://users.adelphia.net/~jarhed/images/tankshots/dec05.jpg

http://users.adelphia.net/~jarhed/images/tankshots/dec051.jpg

http://users.adelphia.net/~jarhed/images/tankshots/dec052.jpg

http://users.adelphia.net/~jarhed/images/tankshots/dec053.jpg

http://users.adelphia.net/~jarhed/images/tankshots/dec054.jpg

[jarhed]

http://users.adelphia.net/~jarhed/images/tankshots/dec055.jpg

http://users.adelphia.net/~jarhed/images/tankshots/dec056.jpg

http://users.adelphia.net/~jarhed/images/tankshots/dec057.jpg

http://users.adelphia.net/~jarhed/images/tankshots/dec058.jpg

http://users.adelphia.net/~jarhed/images/tankshots/dec0510.jpg

http://users.adelphia.net/~jarhed/images/tankshots/dec0511.jpg

http://users.adelphia.net/~jarhed/images/tankshots/dec0512.jpg

http://users.adelphia.net/~jarhed/images/tankshots/dec0514.jpg

[jarhed]

Getting ready to get more base rock. Reeferrocks of course. That rock is beautiful. All of my base rock went live in NO time.

Still adding corals, as you can see. Just finished QT of all fish. (The last Chromis died). I've picked up a few SPS as you can see and a few other goodies from folks right here on RC. Going to start QT'ng more fish in Jan I think, unless I get one from a healthy and established tank.

[Knyght]

Looks like it is filling in nicely, must feel good after all that you have been through. :thumbsup:

:beachbum:

[Bax]

Nice work jarhed your patients will pay off.

.... but QT all your fish no matter where they come from .. please!

[jarhed]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6377110#post6377110 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Bax
Nice work jarhed your patients will pay off.

.... but QT all your fish no matter where they come from .. please!

Yeah, good point. That little 10gal tank is forever placed in my little fish closet. Damn fish are too expensive to NOT be QT'd, even the cheap ones taken from RC'ers.

[druluv]

Good Job I got some cool ideas from your project. I wanted to tag along

[jarhed]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6378253#post6378253 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by druluv
Good Job I got some cool ideas from your project. I wanted to tag along

Glad I could help Druluv! :)

All of the ideas in my tank setup were stolen from RC! :cool: (thus the label: "Reef Tank Idea Thief")

[SVTour]

Some more rock will definitely help in filling out your tank. I'm sure it will look nice once you have it in place. :thumbsup:

I gotta agree with Bax...as hard as it is, QT all your fish. I learned the lesson real hard. Not only did I lose a new fish, but it took my favorite fish with him...and it's one I'm having a real hard time getting over. :(

[jarhed]

Oh, it's not that hard. I have a ghetto filter hooked up (a rio 600 with foam closed over the output) and a heater in there. Plenty of pvc hiding places. My fish got used to it and seemed pretty happy there! :D Not going through the losses again. I havent added up how much money I lost to Ich, but I'm not playing that game anymore, guaranteed.

[jarhed]

New Discovery:

I'm blind AND lucky! :D

After refilling my Korallin reactor and cursing up a storm at the poor quality valves on the reactor tubing (they tend to leak at the top of the knob), I finally got it back online and started cleaning various areas of the sump/fuge. Noticed a huge amount of algae growth in the sump and realized that the two turbos I had in there had either quit and went looking for other jobs and better pay, or died.

While scraping the salt creep from around the top of the sump and all of the pipes (just trying to be neat), I noticed some drops of water on the union of the main overflow drain, right after the ball valve. I thought it might be from the drip hose from the reactor that decided to go "firehose" on me when I plugged the regulator back in (dont laugh, I know you've done that too!! :D ). After wiping it off and noticing that the water came back, along with it's resulting salt creep, I figured there was a problem with the union. Unscrewed the union and sure enough, there was no o-ring in it.

http://users.adelphia.net/~jarhed/images/emoticons/banghead.gif

After digging around in my "leftover bin" for about a half hour (leftovers from the original build), sure enough, there was the o-ring. Popped it in, reconnected the drain, and off I went.

I'm lucky that didnt cause any major leakage in the eight months this tank has been running.

MAN, am I lucky! :cool:

[Bax]

Better late than when the dam breaks!

[NexDog]

BTW, how is the electricity bill working out?

[jarhed]

Bax: NO DOUBT!!!!! :D

Nexdog: It's actually been below $200 for the past few months. In this order:

$180 and change
$190 and change
$148 and change for December.

I'm starting to believe that the SoCal Edison rep I talked to was right when she stated that she believed the huge increase was due to the AC running, having it set too low, and running straight through the power alerts. I have a transmitter on the AC unit right now, which still gives me a very small discount, even in winter.

Either way, I'm pretty sure the AC is where the problem was. We started new rules right after that month and it had come down to the mid $200's.

[NexDog]

I got my bill for December and it was over $500. :(

[Bax]

Ouch!!!

NexDog, do you think that is from the new system components? I guess you have no previous bills to compare it to?

[NexDog]

I had 4 extra bodies staying for 3 weeks (brothers, sister and mum). We have this one heater/air con unit in the lounge that is capable of heating half the house and it was on alot as my mum feels the cold. I think that alone is the cause. Also we have this funky computerised bath and you have to turn it off when done or it keeps the water hot forever. Quite often I'd check the bath at 2pm and the water was still toasty from the night before.

My halides have were only lit one week out of that bill and other than that I've only had the return pump and skimmer pump going 24/7. The whole house is electric (no gas) and electricity (and gas) is expensive here.

Our last house was half teh size of this and it still cost up to $250 in the winter for sparks and fumes. But I would like to get under $300 for this house and teh tank but I guess we'll see.

[jarhed]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6456950#post6456950 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by NexDog
I got my bill for December and it was over $500. :(

:eek2: :eek: http://users.adelphia.net/~jarhed/images/emoticons/puke.gif

[tgeist]

How does everyone fit big sumps under stands (like jarheds') with vertical bracing toward the center?

[jarhed]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6492830#post6492830 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by tgeist
How does everyone fit big sumps under stands (like jarheds') with vertical bracing toward the center?

Mine went in pretty easily. It's only 4' long, and the stand it about 6' long, plus I have that little bit of extra space at the right side to slide it through. If you have room at the ends, you may want to try that.

[Bax]

Jarhed

Can you repost that link to ReeferRocks or where ever that was you got your base rock from?

Thanks :)

[got2lb]

www.reeferrocks.com

They are the best!!!! I have about 120lbs of his stuff in my tank.

[jarhed]

Thanks for that got2lb,

Yeah, Reeferrocks is absolutely the best rock I've ever seen, bar none. Definitely worth it!

[Bax]

Thanks!

[cmhollis]

I have to agree with Jarhed about reeferrocks. I bought 120 lbs of their base rock, it is awesome stuff.

[Bax]

I am planning to start culturing my base rock in a tub for my new tank. I am thinking of getting 200 pounds of base and adding about 50 pounds of LR to it and let it brew with MH lighting, good flow and a giant skimmer for about four months or so before starting up my fish room. The rock would then be held in my sump/fuge to let it mature another few months. Display is not going to happen until after the summer. I used Hirocks in my 75, not bad nd cheap, these ReeferRocks look like they are more porous with better shapes. I may use a combo of the two for cost savings.

[scooters reef]

Hey !!! You passed me up!!!!!


Oh well, you're not working on a whole basement either, so I have an excuse :)

Looks great !!!

[druluv]

Hey Bax

Instead of using the MH Lighting I would use NO, HO, VHO actinic lighting, I think this lighting set up will make the coralline explode on the base rock. Got the idea from GARF. Garf would use blue moon bulbs for 14 hour straight. Also a drip of kalkwasser will have your coralline growing like wild too.

[Bax]

Cool ... thanks druluv!

[jarhed]

Started playing around with portland cement a couple weeks ago and tried my hand at making some rocks. My goal was to make them completely random and very craggy (is that a word?).

I made two a couple weeks ago and the wife, my son and I made three more bigger ones last week. They are soaking now.

I used portland cement purchased for about $6.00 from Lowes, some leftover southdown sand (any sand would be good I'd imagine), and plenty of rock salt to make pits and holes as it dissolved. Made it real thick and kneaded and rolled and tore it apart for the final shape. Then after placing each rock on a bed of southdown, I sprinkled southdown on top of it to give it more of a calcium based rock color.

The rocks are even more porous than the pictures show. The biggest one (on the back left of the pic of the collection) even has a hole in the middle that is completely random, that is it wasnt intentional. It just happened that way. :D

Your thoughts?

http://users.adelphia.net/~jarhed/images/rocks/rocks1.jpg

http://users.adelphia.net/~jarhed/images/rocks/rocks2.jpg

http://users.adelphia.net/~jarhed/images/rocks/rocks3.jpg

http://users.adelphia.net/~jarhed/images/rocks/rocks4.jpg

[bheron]

Wow. I have to say they look really good! Some of the best ive seen. Once covered with life they look like real live rock! Nice work.

[Bax]

jarhed

I m seeing red X's

Would like to see your handy work, what ratio of potland to sand to salt did you use? Did you follow a recipe or just wing it?

[Bax]

Oh now they came up ... WOW! they look great!

[got2lb]

Looks like cement with sand on it! :D

Just kidding it looks pretty good.

Can you post the "recipe" you used to make it.

[jarhed]

Here's what I did:

Regular portland cement (dark stuff from Lowes), rock salt, and some leftover Southdown.

I put about 1:1 of sand and cement together, then mixed in the water to make a big thick mudball. Just mixed the water in very slowly and made sure it wasnt too much. If it was, I added more cement a little at a time to thicken it. I literally had to knead it to the point it was dry enough to be very sticky and muddy. I then added a LOT of rock salt (not sure how much exactly) so there was salt in every chunk that I pulled off. Knead and break the mass apart to make the random shapes and edges.

I then put the mudball on a bed of southdown and sprinkled southdown on top to coat it. Have to make sure that there is sand between the rock and the side of the container or it will end up becoming a smooth edge. I also picked up each rock and bent the bottom inward to create a cavity since it has a tendency to try to settle flat on the bottom.

Let it dry 24 hours and it's sitting in a bin of water soaking now and for the next four weeks.

Since then, I've gotten some other tips. Apparently I didnt need that much cement. I'm going to pickup some Riverside cement (supposed to be whiter) and more sand. I'll put 1 part cement with about 5 parts of sand, then water, then mix in the salt to see if that turns out better. Maybe I'll go the Garf way and use a sandbed to make shapes. Problem with their shapes is that they are smooth rather than "craggy".

[nikonosis]

everything you need to know about making your own rock
http://www.garf.org/

[jarhed]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6639770#post6639770 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by nikonosis
everything you need to know about making your own rock
http://www.garf.org/

Yep, thats where I got the tip about the Riverside cement and proper ratios. This is fun. Once I'm done experimenting, I'll just make as much as I can to use up all of the materials. Whatever I dont use can be given away to locals.

[nikonosis]

you should've got crushed oyster shell and mixed that in. They sell it at feed stores for like 6.50 a bag.

[got2lb]

What did you use for "rock salt" Are you talking about water softener salt?

[jarhed]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6640343#post6640343 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by got2lb
What did you use for "rock salt" Are you talking about water softener salt?

Well, the bag doesnt specifically state "for use with water softener", but I believe the wording does include "can be used in water softeners". It's not the pellet stuff. That scared me, and has really weird shapes. This is actually salt. Like we used on the sidewalks to melt ice when I lived in Pennsyltucky.

[got2lb]

Okay I see what you're talking about now. I guess I was thinking bigger chunks of salt than that.

[nikonosis]

i wouldn't put any salt in it because how do you know when it is all disolved?

You could put it in your tank months from now after curing and there could still be salt in it disolving. If you want it to be really porous, use crushed oyster shells.

[got2lb]

Do the oyster shells dissolve?

[nikonosis]

no but they make tons of tiny holes

[Kyle12781]

I was just skimming through this whole thread, looking at the pictures of the construction. Very nice job by the way! This is pretty much exactly what I want to do... approx. a 180-250g in wall reef. Just wondering how everything is going. Got a couple questions for you... Is it hard to clean the tank from just inside the room from behind the tank. And I was just wondering about some cost issues... I'm currently running a 50g reef setup with MH and CF and all the filtration, which cost me a decent amount of money, but obviously a setup like yours would be a much higher expense. So I was just wondering about how much your set up cost you, and about how much it costs you to keep it running (additives, electricity, etc...).

Any info would be a great help. I'm just starting to plan ahead for a big set up for when we move out of our condo and into a house.

[jarhed]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6641081#post6641081 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Kyle12781
I was just skimming through this whole thread, looking at the pictures of the construction. Very nice job by the way! This is pretty much exactly what I want to do... approx. a 180-250g in wall reef. Just wondering how everything is going. Got a couple questions for you... Is it hard to clean the tank from just inside the room from behind the tank. And I was just wondering about some cost issues... I'm currently running a 50g reef setup with MH and CF and all the filtration, which cost me a decent amount of money, but obviously a setup like yours would be a much higher expense. So I was just wondering about how much your set up cost you, and about how much it costs you to keep it running (additives, electricity, etc...).

Any info would be a great help. I'm just starting to plan ahead for a big set up for when we move out of our condo and into a house.

Thanks Kyle!

Lets put it this way: It's NOT easy to clean the front glass from behind the tank. :cool:

I need a better mag float for one, and will modify it with a scraper. I have a long scraper blade and a couple of good algae scrubbers too. Siphoning the sand isnt too much of a problem because I can hold the siphon up pretty high and reach most places. I invested in a set of gloves that go up to my shoulders to keep my skin oils out of the water during cleaning. I do have to bend over to clean the bottom and reaching the sand bed in front of rocks at the front without seeing is very tough sometimes, but I manage.

Cost? Not exactly sure. I split most of the cost between a couple bonus checks and two credit cards. I like to stay in denial when it comes to the total amount, but I'd guess around $6-$8k to setup including all equipment new that I didnt salvage from my 40gal.

I estimate that the electricity is about an extra $75 per month give or take. I experiment with additives, but not many. I've used DT's Live Phyto and my SPS love it. Other than that, I run a calcium reactor and add kalk (Pickling Lime) to my topoff container. I have a little 10gal QT tank in the room on the floor and it's equipped with a $14 filter, no additives. I am using IO so I added Reef Essentials to the 20gal water changes every other week to boost the calcium (sometimes only once per month). I just found OceanPure for less money than IO (IO=$31.99 for 160gal bucket at PetSmart, I just got two 50gal bags of OceanPure for $15.98. An extra 40gallons of mix for the same money, and all the calcium needed) so I'm going to switch salts.

Other than that, my setup is pretty simple. Hopefully I'll have more pics soon to show some mods and enhancements.

[BlueStag]

Jarhead,

Got any photos of the new corals you got from me? Love your build out thread. Your tank looks sweet.

[natex]

I just spent the last couple hours reading the whole thread. Jarhead, awsome job, just awsome. I am really impressed. I am also really impressed by all the RCers that came out to help him with advice and encouragement.

Jarhead, if you need a big moose to help you move anything let me know! I just want to check out that rad tank!

[jarhed]

Thanks guys!

BlueStag, I'll take some pics as soon as the lights go on. I'm not a good photographer and my digi camera is not the highest quality (that means I have no clue on how to get it to focus properly), but I'll get them. The Clam is doing VERY well. He climbed down off of the rock I put him on and is now in the sand. Not sure if thats good or not.

Natex, if your ever in the Inland Empire area, you are welcome to come over ANYtime! Need some cheato? It's time to harvest, so whenever you want, let me know. :)

[weehian]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6737288#post6737288 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by natex
I just spent the last couple hours reading the whole thread. Jarhead, awsome job, just awsome. I am really impressed. I am also really impressed by all the RCers that came out to help him with advice and encouragement.

Jarhead, if you need a big moose to help you move anything let me know! I just want to check out that rad tank!


agreed... awesome stuff...
thanks for sharing with us the whole process from the start....

was thinking if you could replace your door know or make it look less obvious. that might somehow draw attention away from the tank.

u can ignore my suggestion, cos i'm prbly obessive-compulsive..

[jarhed]

Which door? You mean the door to the fish room itself?

Well, there will be trim around it, the same trim thats around the tank. The wall will also be painted the same color that you see in the hallway.

Thanks for the compliments!

[jarhed]

Someday, someone is going to come show me how to take pictures properly. :D

http://users.adelphia.net/~jarhed/images/tank13.jpg

http://users.adelphia.net/~jarhed/images/tank14.jpg

http://users.adelphia.net/~jarhed/images/tank15.jpg

[jarhed]

http://users.adelphia.net/~jarhed/images/tank16.jpg

http://users.adelphia.net/~jarhed/images/tank17.jpg

http://users.adelphia.net/~jarhed/images/tank18.jpg

http://users.adelphia.net/~jarhed/images/tank19.jpg

[Bax]

Looks like you've added more rock ... nice :)

[nikonosis]

you should stop taking pictures with a flash unless you are taking pictures or something moving and there are ways around doing that. The flash makes everything look yellow and washed out. Here is the best page there is for taking pictures of your tank

http://www.ximinasphotography.com/lessons/index.html

[jarhed]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6854938#post6854938 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by nikonosis
you should stop taking pictures with a flash unless you are taking pictures or something moving and there are ways around doing that. The flash makes everything look yellow and washed out. Here is the best page there is for taking pictures of your tank

http://www.ximinasphotography.com/lessons/index.html

Kewl. I've tried to turn the flash off but I cant figure out how to do it on that POS HP camera.

I'll read that link you gave me.

[nikonosis]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6855332#post6855332 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jarhed
Kewl. I've tried to turn the flash off but I cant figure out how to do it on that POS HP camera.

I'll read that link you gave me.

can you adjust the shutter speed, white balance, or aperature on your camera.

[jarhed]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6856443#post6856443 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by nikonosis
can you adjust the shutter speed, white balance, or aperature on your camera.

Ummmm.......... :eek: I have no idea! :D I'll have to play with it and pull out the manual when I get home I guess. (Reading, just what I DIDNT Want to do!)

It's about a year old. Wifes' dad got it for her for Xmas '04. Even came with it's own printer.

[nikonosis]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6857217#post6857217 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jarhed
Ummmm.......... :eek: I have no idea! :D I'll have to play with it and pull out the manual when I get home I guess. (Reading, just what I DIDNT Want to do!)

It's about a year old. Wifes' dad got it for her for Xmas '04. Even came with it's own printer.

you should probably be able to take decent pics with it.

[natex]

just put your finger over the flash :)

[golfschosen1]

Sounds Nice

[jarhed]

Couple pics from July 06:

http://users.adelphia.net/~jarhed/images/tankshots/july06a.jpg

http://users.adelphia.net/~jarhed/images/tankshots/july06b.jpg

http://users.adelphia.net/~jarhed/images/tankshots/july06c.jpg

http://users.adelphia.net/~jarhed/images/tankshots/july06d.jpg

[jarhed]

http://users.adelphia.net/~jarhed/images/tankshots/july06e.jpg

http://users.adelphia.net/~jarhed/images/tankshots/july06f.jpg

http://users.adelphia.net/~jarhed/images/tankshots/july06g.jpg

http://users.adelphia.net/~jarhed/images/tankshots/july06h.jpg

[jarhed]

http://users.adelphia.net/~jarhed/images/tankshots/july06i.jpg

http://users.adelphia.net/~jarhed/images/tankshots/july06j.jpg

http://users.adelphia.net/~jarhed/images/tankshots/july06k.jpg

http://users.adelphia.net/~jarhed/images/tankshots/july06l.jpg

[jarhed]

http://users.adelphia.net/~jarhed/images/tankshots/july06m.jpg

http://users.adelphia.net/~jarhed/images/tankshots/july06n.jpg

[Red Sea Purple Tang]

Hey Nikonosis...excellent avitar!

[Lincutis]

Jarhead, I have a question about your returns. I am wondering in the event of siphon, do you have check valves or what will keep your water level?

[nikonosis]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7777054#post7777054 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Red Sea Purple Tang
Hey Nikonosis...excellent avitar!

lol thanks

[Aquarium Obsessed]

Very nice install!


In wall tanks IMO are the best. 2 sided viewing even better.

Keep the pics coming.

[jarhed]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7777535#post7777535 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Lincutis
Jarhead, I have a question about your returns. I am wondering in the event of siphon, do you have check valves or what will keep your water level?

Actually, I have a check valve in the return line, however, now that you mentioned it, they have to be replaced REGULARLY. Last week, we had a six hour power failure in Fontana and the valve failed (I was too lazy to replace it or clean it), so the sump filled up.

The sump is 60 gals and runs normally at about half level. It took all of the water with no spills but was definitely danger close.

I'm going to be abandoning the check valve and drilling a small hole in the top of the return near the overflow box to break the siphon.

Dont get me wrong, I like the check valves, even with it's inherent flow restriction, but it's seriously just too much of a pain in the kiester to pull off and clean or replace every six months or so.

[agarza]

Nice to hear from you again, tank´s looking great. Any updates on equipment or livestock?

Cheers!

[jarhed]

Thanks agarza!

No real updates, trying a few new things though. I did put a couple new fish in there, including a couple bar gobies (they hide most of the time), and a Mandarin. Havent updated the livestock much, guess I may put a couple Tangs in there. Only issue is that I will most likely be going to Iraq in the Spring, so I'm debating how far to get into it. I'll be selling all livestock, rock, coral and sand before I go.

Fighting with some Cyano-mess right now. Thought I had it beat, just came back, albeit slowly. Going to try a couple things on it. Need to get a Phosphate test kit. Changed my water filters and changed the resin too, that seems to have had a positive effect.

[Lincutis]

Thanks for response. I use the holes also, but was wondering if you had a better way to go.
Nice setup btw. I have followed the progress for a while now.

[jarhed]

A few more...

http://users.adelphia.net/~jarhed/images/tankshots/july06o.jpg

http://users.adelphia.net/~jarhed/images/tankshots/july06p.jpg

http://users.adelphia.net/~jarhed/images/tankshots/july06q.jpg