Lighting Website Updates

[Sanjay]

Just updated my website http://www.reeflightinginfo.arvixe.com
with data for the following Double Ended lamps.


EVC 10000K
EVC 14000K
EVC 20000K
AQUALINE BUSHKE 20000K
HAPPY REEFING 10000K
HAPPY REEFING 14000K
HAPPY REEFING 20000K
ICECAP 10000K
ICECAP 20000K
Coralvue 15000K

As of today the website has 589 spectral plots and lamp performance data.

And YES, I have finally recieved the complete line of XM 15K lamps (400W, 250W SE and DE, 175W SE, and 150W DE), and will be testing them soon.

Enjoy,

sanjay.

[menace]

> http://www.reefkeepinginfo.arvixe.com

DNS error; Non-existent host/domain. :confused:

[Alfalfameister]

http://www.reeflightinginfo.arvixe.com/

[Sanjay]

thanks for catching my error. I fixed the website address in my earlier post.

sanjay.

[grigsy]

Is Happy Reefing still in business? I checked their website but it only says "sold - thank you". Also, any results on 175 watt Blueline 10K, 175 Hamilton 10K, 175 XM? Thanks for taking the time to test!

[pvtschultz]

Sanjay, you are the man. I bought them (XM 15,000K) already as a guinie pig, but it will be interesting to see how well they shine.

[TexasTodd]

Sanjay, have you tested the XM 20kk 175w SE's yet?

Also, most of your tests are without shield "glass". What % on average does it cut your PAR back by using glass?

Thank you for all your light work,

Todd

[Horace]

I AM LOOKING FORWARD TO THE XM 15k !! That bulb looks very nice on pvtschultz's tank (im pretty sure hes the one who posted what they looked like). If they are 80+ in PAR with electronics I will be making a purchase :P

[Sanjay]

Originally posted by grigsy
Is Happy Reefing still in business? I checked their website but it only says "sold - thank you". Also, any results on 175 watt Blueline 10K, 175 Hamilton 10K, 175 XM? Thanks for taking the time to test!

Well, it seems Happy Reefing is out of business. What I am being told is that the 400DE lamps that Happy Reefing was selling are the same as Coralvue lamps.

I need to figure out a easy way to make the change in my database and also maintain consistency with the published articles.

I have not done much with 175W lamps.. but I have a few waiting in line to be tested. They tend to get bumped lower in the priority list :( I will try to get to them sometime this summer.

sanjay.

[Sanjay]

Originally posted by TexasTodd
Sanjay, have you tested the XM 20kk 175w SE's yet?

Also, most of your tests are without shield "glass". What % on average does it cut your PAR back by using glass?

Thank you for all your light work,

Todd

Todd,

based on what I have tested with the DE lamps, the glass shield will cut off about 18-20% of PAR.

As I said earlier.. the 175s tend to get bumped lower in the priority list.

Thanks,

sanjay.

[TexasTodd]

One last set of questions Sanjay.

Do you run the reflectors over the Penn State tank without glass?

How high off the water are the bottom of the reflectors?

If you run without glass at this distance to the water have you lost any reflectivity due to salt spray eventually dulling the reflective surfaces even with routine cleaning?

Thanks again,

Todd

[Sanjay]

Originally posted by TexasTodd
One last set of questions Sanjay.

Do you run the reflectors over the Penn State tank without glass?

How high off the water are the bottom of the reflectors?

If you run without glass at this distance to the water have you lost any reflectivity due to salt spray eventually dulling the reflective surfaces even with routine cleaning?

Thanks again,

Todd

Yes, they are without the glass. Lumenarc did not have the glass when we got these.

The bottom used to be 6" off the water. When I switched to the EVC 10K lamps (they have almost 2X PAR of the Ushio on a M59 ballast) I raised it by 4" more inches. I like this better since I am now getting full coverage of 42" from to back.

The refletor does get salt spray, but so far they have been easy to clean. I have not had the kind of pitting that I had in the past with other reflectors. They must have a better material. They still are pretty shiny after 5 years of use.

sanjay.

[TexasTodd]

That is the information I needed!

I'm getting two tomorrow.

Thanks,

Todd

[cryb99]

what are your ideas on the reeflux 10 bulbs offered. i've seen them listed as true 10k's

[Sanjay]

Originally posted by cryb99
what are your ideas on the reeflux 10 bulbs offered. i've seen them listed as true 10k's

Look for the May 15th issue of advanced aquarist. It will have the data on the Reeflux lamps.

sanjay.

[jlehigh]

gosh at first I thought it had to be an error in the article! The 20K reeflux putting out MORE Par than the 10 and 14K bulbs.. Crazy! Once I see the new XM 15K data I will be buying some bulbs..

[Horace]

Originally posted by jlehigh
gosh at first I thought it had to be an error in the article! The 20K reeflux putting out MORE Par than the 10 and 14K bulbs.. Crazy! Once I see the new XM 15K data I will be buying some bulbs..

Which 10 and 14k bulbs are you comparing them to?

[Travis]

Actually, there is only 10k reeflux. No 20k reeflux that I'm aware of anyways. The 20k CV does put out higher PAR than the 14k CV and the 10k CV. However, the 10k reeflux does put out more PAR than the 20k CV. I'm not sure why the PAR is so low for the 10k and 14k CV. It is extremely low compared to other 10k and 14k lamps of the same wattage. Of course, it also depends on what ballast you are using for the comparisons. The only ballast which runs the 20k CV at higher PAR than the 10k reeflux is the magnetic.

[Herbert T. Kornfeld]

I would be interested in the geisemann 14,500K bulbs...just a request.

[Reefvet]

I see you have spectral data for the XM DE 20K on an IceCap electronic balast. I thought they weren't compatible ?

From the bulb's description on marinedepot.com (http://www.marinedepot.com/md_viewItem.asp?idproduct=MB6861) : The XM double-ended 20000K metal halide bulb offers excellent coloration and good intensity. It is white with a strong blue tint. It brings out the fluorescent pigments in corals nicely. Fluorescent supplementation is usually not necessary, but can be used for added intensity and to simulate dawn and dusk. This bulb will work with a standard magnetic ballast, magnetic pulse-start ballast or magnetic HQI ballast: it is not compatible with IceCap electronic ballasts.

So what's the story?

[BraenDead]

I don't see anywhere that mentions what PPFD and CCT stand for? I m guessing PPFD is similar/synonymous with Par?

Bob

[Travis]

BraenDead, that is correct. I forget exactly what PPFD stands for. CCT is correlated color temperature. It basically gives you an idea of what the color of the bulb is. Lower numbers indicate more yellow while higher numbers indicate more blue. I think it is pretty similar to kelvin where 10000 CCT = a true 10k bulb. The CCT rating for the bluer bulbs (14K, 20k) is usually off the scale and is listed as NA.

[palabok]

Sanjay, do you know anything on how good the IRIDIUS 250w DE bulbs are? THey are bieng sold by Custom Aquatics. Any info would help. THanks

[pvtschultz]

I did a quick yahoo search and it looks like PPFD is: photosynthetic photon flux density which seems to be a measure of the photosynthetic usable light emitted by a lamp or any light source for that matter.

[Ti]

tagging along

[Sanjay]

Originally posted by palabok
Sanjay, do you know anything on how good the IRIDIUS 250w DE bulbs are? THey are bieng sold by Custom Aquatics. Any info would help. THanks

No, I have not seen these lamps yet.

sanjay.

[Sanjay]

Originally posted by BraenDead
I don't see anywhere that mentions what PPFD and CCT stand for? I m guessing PPFD is similar/synonymous with Par?

Bob

Bob:

All the terms are defined in my very first article.

http://www.personal.psu.edu/faculty/s/b/sbj4/aquarium/articles/MetalHalideLamps1.htm

sanjay.

[trmiv]

Glad to see the AB 20K on there. I knew the PPFD increased when I went from the AB 20K to the Phoenix 14k, but I had no idea it was that much.

[glipper69]

what ever happened to the XM 15K 250Watt have you had a chance to burn and test it yet?

Thx
Frank

[Ereefic]

Sanjay, are there going to be any more 175w bulbs tested? I think the only one you show on your website is a AB.

Also, several bulbs seem to be the same bulb but marked 'SE 1' and 'SE 2', both of the same 'K' rating. Is this 2 of the same bulbs?

[Sanjay]

Originally posted by glipper69
what ever happened to the XM 15K 250Watt have you had a chance to burn and test it yet?

Thx
Frank

Working on them.

sanjay.

[Sanjay]

Originally posted by Ereefic
Sanjay, are there going to be any more 175w bulbs tested? I think the only one you show on your website is a AB.

Also, several bulbs seem to be the same bulb but marked 'SE 1' and 'SE 2', both of the same 'K' rating. Is this 2 of the same bulbs?

THe 175s tend to end up low on the totem pole

:( I do not use them and infact I do not have a whole lot of 175s. In fact on ly 55G tank, I replaced the 175W with 150 De lamps and I think that is a better choice, given the reflector quality. There is some old data on 175s in my earlier articles.

http://www.personal.psu.edu/faculty/s/b/sbj4/aquarium/articles/ballast%20comparison/ballast-comparison.html

I will be testing the XM 15K 17s and the XM 10KK and 20KK 175s soon. But I only have 2 ballasts for them - the magnetic ballast and the Lumen General Electronic Ballast.

When I have more than one lamp of the same type, I have been labelling them 1, 2.. and so on. So SE 1 and SE2 would indicate 2 different lamps of the same brand. This will give us some idea on the variation between lamps.

sanjay.

[Herbert T. Kornfeld]

I agree with Sanjay...want to know what bulb to get when you need to replace your 175s? A 150 (and a new ballast & socket)!

[Ereefic]

I've been extremely happy with my 175w MH lighting. For what they are and the application they've been used for, they've been great. No complaints. :)

[whodah]

sanjay: are you aware of the mysql connect issues on yer site?

http://www.reeflightinginfo.arvixe.com/selectballast.php


Warning: mysql_pconnect(): Access denied for user: '..@localhost' (Using password: YES) in /home/../public_html/Connections/spectraldatabase.php on line 9

[Sanjay]

Yeah... I was having trouble with connecting to the database from my home computer and I ended up screwing up the user account I had set up. It is fixed now and should work.

sanjay.

[Illusion]

Wanted to know if you are now Aware of

"JpGraph Error: HTTP headers have already been sent.
Explanation:
HTTP headers have already been sent back to the browser indicating the data as text before the library got a chance to send it's image HTTP header to this browser. This makes it impossible for the library to send back image data to the browser (since that would be interpretated as text by the browser and show up as junk text).
Most likely you have some text in your script before the call to Graph::Stroke(). If this texts gets sent back to the browser the browser will assume that all data is plain text. Look for any text, even spaces and newlines, that might have been sent back to the browser.

For example it is a common mistake to leave a blank line before the opening "<?php"."

James

[ulua56]

Sanjay, you rock dude, all the man hours you have spent, are much appreciated !!!!!!!!!

[whodah]

heya!

i second both Illusion on reproducing the error, and ulua56 on the thanks! :)

[Sanjay]

Sorry guys.. right now I have no clue why the plotting is not working correctly.

I had some problems with accessing database which I have since fixed. I did not change or touch any of the code. So I cannot explain the cause of this problem.

I works fine locally on my computer, and I have no clue why something that was working would not work anymore given that I made no changes to the code.

UNfortunately I am unable to figure out the cause.

sanjay.

[Reefvet]

Originally posted by Sanjay
Sorry guys.. right now I have no clue why the plotting is not working correctly.

I had some problems with accessing database which I have since fixed. I did not change or touch any of the code. So I cannot explain the cause of this problem.

I works fine locally on my computer, and I have no clue why something that was working would not work anymore given that I made no changes to the code.

UNfortunately I am unable to figure out the cause.

sanjay.

Because it's not the code, it's the MySQL database. You need to rebuild the tables. Your host should be able to help you if you're not familiar with how to do this.

[Sanjay]

OK.. after almost a day of head scratching and head banging, deleting and reinstalling the database, I got the site working again.

And as an added bonus, I managed to get it all updated too with the latest data on the Coralvue lamps from my May article in Advanced Aquarist.

As of June 2nd, there are now 630 spectral data available on the site.:D

Enjoy

sanjay.

[Herbert T. Kornfeld]

Sanjay is a headbanger...cool...

[trmiv]

How big of a difference is a 15 increase in ppfd? I have the Phoenix 14K with an IceCap electronic, which I see is 73 ppfd. The PFO HQI gets 88 ppfd with this bulb. Is that a significant enough increase to warrant an upgrade from my electronic IceCap to the PFO (or Bluewave III)?

[Sanjay]

Originally posted by trmiv
How big of a difference is a 15 increase in ppfd? I have the Phoenix 14K with an IceCap electronic, which I see is 73 ppfd. The PFO HQI gets 88 ppfd with this bulb. Is that a significant enough increase to warrant an upgrade from my electronic IceCap to the PFO (or Bluewave III)?

Well in this case it is almost a 20% increase. As for wether to change would depend on a lot of factors.

1) is your tank and corals doing well right now. If things are going good - do not change.
2) How deep is the tank ? what fixture are you using. ? If hte tank is 24" or less and you are using the Sunlight supply or PFO DE pendants, you are fine
3) If you want you can compensate for the difference by lowering your lights. A couple of inches will do the trick.

So as you can see there is really no clear cut answer :-) You can make it work once you understand what you are getting from your current lighting system.

sanjay.

[trmiv]

I think my corals could be doing better, especially SPS mounted lower in the tank. My Milleporas were browning out until I switched from 20K AB to the Phoenix 14K, and are now coloring up. I want more of that.

The tank is 21" tall, and I'm using the 250w Aqua Medic Ocean Light fixture, but with an IceCap ballast. Do you have any opinions on that fixture vs the PFO or ROIII?

[Acroholic]

Sanjay, thanks for all your work. Do you have plans in the near future for testing "Auqatic Lighting System 400W 12,000k Sunburst" bulbs?

[alrha]

Is IceCap the only one making 400W DE bulbs?
Also their 10K bulb seems to perform like a 20K bulb on the charts.

[RedEyeReef]

Originally posted by Sanjay
Yes, they are without the glass. Lumenarc did not have the glass when we got these.

The bottom used to be 6" off the water. When I switched to the EVC 10K lamps (they have almost 2X PAR of the Ushio on a M59 ballast) I raised it by 4" more inches. I like this better since I am now getting full coverage of 42" from to back.
sanjay.

Sanjay,

Why did you switch to EVC 10K's and are you running an supplement Blue?

[AquaticCo]

Originally posted by alrha
Is IceCap the only one making 400W DE bulbs?
Also their 10K bulb seems to perform like a 20K bulb on the charts.

Coralvue also make a 400 watt DE bulb

Doug

[alrha]

the website only alows the SE option for them.
If i try the 250W DE i can compare the Coralvue20K to the IceCap 250W DE 20K, seems like the IceCap wins that comparison, I i guess i can assume that the IceCap would win also in a 400W 10K.

[Sanjay]

Originally posted by alrha
Is IceCap the only one making 400W DE bulbs?
Also their 10K bulb seems to perform like a 20K bulb on the charts.

Coralvue also make the 400W DE lamps. These are the same bulbs as the Happy Reefing Bulbs in my tests. I guess Happy reefing is out of business.

Also, I see that PFo lighting also has 400W DE lamps. The KrystalStar, is the name.

sanjay.

[Sanjay]

Originally posted by CapeCoral
Sanjay, thanks for all your work. Do you have plans in the near future for testing "Auqatic Lighting System 400W 12,000k Sunburst" bulbs?

I tested the ALS lamps a long time ago... I know they are not on the web, but they are in one of my articles. Unfortunately this article appeared in a print version.. I have lost my copy of the article to a virus attack a few years ago. My excel spreadsheet with the data is also dead to the same virus attack. I do however have the data in its original format but have not had the time to dig it up and rebuild it. I will get around to it eventually.


Joshi, S. 2002, "Spectral Analysis of Recent Metal Halide Lamps: Part IV- 10000K and 12000K lamps," 2002 Annual Marine Fish and Reef USA , Fancy Publications.


sanjay.

[alrha]

Sanjay, do you know how the PFO would compare to the IceCaps? (i didnt see records of the PFO DE bulbs on your site). Seems like that would be my only other option (considering that Happy Reefing is out of business).

[Herbert T. Kornfeld]

I want to know what is up with that new bulb that icecap is marketing as 'aqua blue' besides the usual 10,000K and 20,000K. Whats it supposed to be...an actinic halide or something?

[Sanjay]

Originally posted by alrha
Sanjay, do you know how the PFO would compare to the IceCaps? (i didnt see records of the PFO DE bulbs on your site). Seems like that would be my only other option (considering that Happy Reefing is out of business).

THe PFO DE would be similar to the Coralvue DE. I have that lamp in queue to be tested. But according to David, it is the same lamp as Coralvue

sanjay.

[Sanjay]

Originally posted by Herbert T. Kornfeld
I want to know what is up with that new bulb that icecap is marketing as 'aqua blue' besides the usual 10,000K and 20,000K. Whats it supposed to be...an actinic halide or something?

I have not seen or heard of this lamp. Can you provide a link to it. ?

sanjay.

[KH971]

Sanjay, thanks for all of your time and efforts, could you explain what PPFD means ? I am not aware of the meaning?

Thanks Keith

I just recieved my 400 SE XM15k's
love the color but i am awaiting the PAR figures, I doubt they will be good. I also run Icecap elec. ballast.

[Sanjay]

Originally posted by KH971
Sanjay, thanks for all of your time and efforts, could you explain what PPFD means ? I am not aware of the meaning?

Thanks Keith

I just recieved my 400 SE XM15k's
love the color but i am awaiting the PAR figures, I doubt they will be good. I also run Icecap elec. ballast.

Keith:

PPFD - Photosynthetic Photon Flux Density
It is basically the count of number of photons falling on a given area (usually 1 meter square) in one second. It is measured in the units of micromoles/m^2/sec. 1 micromole = 10^17 photons.

PAR - photsynthetically available radiation is technically measured as PPFD, hence used interchangeable with PPFD.

sanjay.

[Sanjay]

OK.. I am done with lighting tests !!!!

Done with the XM 15K test :D :D

The results have been sent off to advanced aquarist for publication. It includes results on the complete line of the XM 15K lamps. Hopefully they will have it in the June issue.

Don't bug me for the results - send you emails to the editors there to make sure it appears in the June issue.;)

sanjay.

[Herbert T. Kornfeld]

when do you anticipate the XM 15,000K bulbs to be added to the spectral plotting page?

On the 'aqua-blue' its mentioned right on Icecap's main page...stating that they have a 10,000K, 20,000K, and this 'aqua-blue'. I have been talking with ASH to get him to even tell me what it is...w/o any real results. I wonder W T F this bulb is suppoerd to be...a 38,000K type like a radium?

how about that Geisemann 14,500K megachrome?

[Herbert T. Kornfeld]

http://www.icecapinc.com/

From their main page>>>
"IceCap is proud to announce our new line of Metal Halide DE HQI Lamps. Available in 250 Watt and 400 Watt versions with color temperatures of 10K, 20K and AQUA BLUE. These lamps are made with the highest quality standards and will operate on all electronic (and magnetic) metal halide ballasts."

my attempt at getting info:
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=5089064#post5089064

anyone got any ideas?

[trmiv]

Sanjay,

What is your opinion on the EVC 10000K without actinic supplementation? I'm currently running a Phoenix 14K 250w DE on an IceCap, but I want an easy way to get more PAR output, without the heat and extra watts of an HQI magnetic ballast. So I'm considering switching to the EVC 10000K DE. I really don't have the room for actinic supplements in my tank, so I want to run just with the halide.

[Sanjay]

I run all my tank without any actinic suppliments, and I am perfectly happy with it and so are my corals :-)

On my home tank I am running 1X400W EVc 10K, and 2X250W BLV DE lamps in a reef optix III reflector. On the penn state tank we are running 4X400W EVC 10K lamps with lumen arc reflectors.

I yanked out the actincs several years ago and am enjoying the reduction in lamp replacemetn costs and additional electricity costs. The corals are all doing fine and color up nicely.

sanjay.

[Travis]

Sanjay, IIRC you were previously running XM10k's. May I ask why you switched to EVC10k's seeing as how they have less PAR?

[grigsy]

Sanjay - I would like to see testing on several different 175 watt bulb when you have time - Blueline 10K, Hamilton 10K, XM 10K, Coralvue 10K

[trmiv]

Thanks Sanjay. I'm tempted to pick up an EVC 250w 10K for my tank. I like the look of the penn state tank, and there is some italian tank I saw on here that looked great with the EVC 10K.

[Sanjay]

Originally posted by Travis
Sanjay, IIRC you were previously running XM10k's. May I ask why you switched to EVC10k's seeing as how they have less PAR?

The PAR is not lower on the EVC running on the Magnetic ballast. The reason for switching out the XM was related to quality issues, we had 2 lamps crack and one switch color on the penn state tank. We had bought them when they first came out. They had some quality problems with glass thickness which seem to have now been fixed. They were kind enough to replace the lamps.

sanjay.

[Sanjay]

Originally posted by grigsy
Sanjay - I would like to see testing on several different 175 watt bulb when you have time - Blueline 10K, Hamilton 10K, XM 10K, Coralvue 10K

I will get around to these lamps sometime this summer. I need to compile a list of the available lamps and ballasts for these lamps and start acquring the lamps. I do not use 175Ws anywhere and have lost track is what is out there.

Can you make up a complete list of all the 175W lamps and ballast out there ?

sanjay.

[The Grim Reefer]

Sanjay,

If you seriously would like a list of all the lamps and ballasts I have a lot of time on my hands. I could put together a list of all the popular wattage lamps and ballasts I can find on the net. Let me know.

[Herbert T. Kornfeld]

Hey, we need to finish tests / making a list of all the 250watters out there first! Who still uses 175s anyways? Their output is dismal. Most 250watters have double the output of a 175 for just an extra 75watts...

[reefmaint]

Are you ever gonna start testing florecants...???,,,...,,???

[Sanjay]

Originally posted by The Grim Reefer
Sanjay,

If you seriously would like a list of all the lamps and ballasts I have a lot of time on my hands. I could put together a list of all the popular wattage lamps and ballasts I can find on the net. Let me know.

What makes you think I am not serious ?:)

It will take some time to acquire all the lamps and ballast and then burning them in for 100 hr each.

The testing part is relatively shorter.

sanjay.

[The Grim Reefer]

Well what do you want first, 150 or 175 watts? I got plenty of time to do the grunt work of finding what's out there if that gives you more time to buy and test the stuff:)

[glipper69]

Sanjay,

Anything yet on the XM15K?

Frank

[Sanjay]

Originally posted by The Grim Reefer
Well what do you want first, 150 or 175 watts? I got plenty of time to do the grunt work of finding what's out there if that gives you more time to buy and test the stuff:)

Lets go with the 175W since those are the ones I have the least amount of data on.

sanjay.

[Herbert T. Kornfeld]

I think most would be more interested in 150s rather than 175s. Esp the classic blue radiums that for some reason cant be found in a 250wattDE.

[Sanjay]

There is quite a bit of data on the 150W DE lamps, including the radium on my website.

sanjay.

[armygreen11]

Sanjay- First, I'd just like to say thanks for all the time and effort you've put into the testing of all the MH reef lighting you have documented over the years. I know it serves as a very important knowledge base for anyone interested in trying to create an optimal reef environment.

I heard you presented data on different bulbs' spectrum changes over time. A friend of mine in CMAS (Maryland) attended the presentation you gave the same day as Steve Tyree and said that you showed data proving that some 20K bulbs lose most of their PAR after a few months of use because most of their light output is concentrated in the narrow spectrum 440-460nm range and this large "spike" falls off very quickly, while 10K bulbs are more full spectrum and maintain a higher level of PAR over a longer period.

I would definately like to learn more on this subject. I would really like to know how long bulbs really "last", and which bulbs provide the highest CCT with the least loss of PAR over time. I personally really like the look of 20K bulbs (especially the XM's) but I don't want to lose most of my avalible light a few months after installing them.

[denvig]

Has anyone done a study of which 250W DE bulb holds its color spectrum the longest? (Longest lasting usable light)

[Sanjay]

To do this right would take a lot of effort and coordination. But we could get some estimates of what the light output is from lamps after they have been used. I am gradually collecting data from used lamps sent to me by hobbiest, so at least I will have some information on what the is final par of these lamps (not knowing the initial par).

sanjay.

[Herbert T. Kornfeld]

Im going on 18 months with my Aqualine 10,000Ks...they seem to be holding spectrum just fine.

[Sanjay]

if anone is interested in sending me thier used lamps, I can measure the PPFD and at least we will have some idea of what the values are when people are changing them out.

sanjay.

[FastUno]

Sanjay, I know this one may be a tough one to answer, but here it goes.

I am in a situation where I will have a glass shield on a SE MH set & expect to loose some 15-20% of pars. The only advantage I have to combat the loss is that the fixtures will be directly on top of the tank, as opposed to the normal 6-8 inches above the tank that we see. How much more pars do you think are gained by having the MH directly above the tank?

When you perform your plot tests, how far away from the bulb do you normally take your measurements?

[Sanjay]

Having your light closer to the water surface will help. How much is hard to quantify, especially since you will be increasing peak values, but also changing the spread. If you still get good spread in the tank, then lowering the lights will definately compensate for the loss due to the glass shield.

For the lamp data, the distance that I have used for all tests is 18". For the reflector data, the measurements were at 6", 9" and 12".

sanjay.

[Travis]

FastUno, is the 15-20% loss just a guesstimate? I am just curious because I use a 1/4" glass (regular glass) shield during the summer months to help keep the tank cooler. I searched for a while before I decided on the shield but I never came across any data that showed what the true losses would be with any type of lens.

[The Grim Reefer]

I just measured my actinics with and without the glass top, just a tad over 20% loss.

[Sanjay]

Travis:

I measured losses ranging from about 18-22% with the glass shield. The losses are higher at the blue end of the spectrum as expected.

sanjay.

[FastUno]

My numbers are from estimates from reports such as Grim's & Sanjay's. For those who have tested with shield, how thick was the glass shield & does the same apply for acrylic? I would think the thickness & the composition of the glass/acrylic should make a difference.

I am sure this adds another layer of complication in terms of quantification. I am also sure that the position of the shield relative to the bulbs also makes a difference in the refraction of light & thus the spectral & par outputs.

Sanjay, your tests are done with the probe exposed to air, or actually in the water?

[Travis]

I'm also curious as to what thickness the glass was in the testing.

FastUno, I personally wouldn't recommend using an acrylic shield. That is what I tried initially. People told me it would warp due to the heat from the bulbs but I thought my design would prevent that as I'm exhausting most of the heat outside. Sure enough, the acrylic warped big time in about a month. Of course, it was only 1/8" thick, but I think even 1/4" would warp pretty fast. I'm sure it would allow better light penetration but at a higher cost due to the need to keep replacing it.

Has anyone performed tests with different types of materials such as glass vs. low iron glass vs. acrylic to see what the differences in light penetration are?

[FastUno]

I have a T5 setup with an acrylic shield & was wondering how much light I was losing with it on? I also get a slight warp effect at the edges of my fixtures, but nothing major. I could only imagine the effects of acrylic under a MH sys.

Sanjay, have you done any tests with T5's? If so any links or posts?

[Sanjay]

I have done one test with T5s, and am currently waiting on a fixture from Sunlight Supply.

sanjay.

[The Grim Reefer]

Accurate T5 data in the works? Cool!:D

[Herbert T. Kornfeld]

70watt halides, 1000watt halides...whats next? I would be interested in 1000watt halides because things seem to change alot at that level...just like how cheap hamilton 14,000K bulbs have horrible PARs compared to an Aqualine 10,000K at the 250watt level...but best them in the 400watt level. The hamilton 14,000K is half the price of many other 1000watt bulbs...10,000K and 20,000K...I wonder how it does. It seems like the outputs of bulbs at that level change a bit as well...20,000K bulbs seem whiter at 1000watts, 14,000Ks look like 10,000Ks, etc.

[Sanjay]

Yeah.. i could keep busy for several years just testing all the MHs and trying to address the issues.:D

Right now I am more interested in figuring out a nice way to get the reflector data on the web.

sanjay

[Sanjay]

Originally posted by The Grim Reefer
Accurate T5 data in the works? Cool!:D

I thought you already had good data on the T5s. !!

sanjay.

[The Grim Reefer]

Hey, I get my arms wet and scare the crap out of my fish when I do readings:) No substitute for your precise readings but I guess they do some good. I am sure SLS hates my guts after the reflector readings I posted:D

[RedEyeReef]

Originally posted by The Grim Reefer
Hey, I get my arms wet and scare the crap out of my fish when I do readings:) No substitute for your precise readings but I guess they do some good. I am sure SLS hates my guts after the reflector readings I posted:D

Do you have a link to this data?

[The Grim Reefer]

It is a thread in the equipment forum in the thread "the great T5 glarathon".

[Herbert T. Kornfeld]

Sanjay, 2 Qs...

One, I thought you tested the hamilton 250 - 14,000Ks in the DE version as well...they arent on the site...???

Also, in late Sept, Penn State is having some big meeting on china<<<not sure what exactly yet. My woman was asked to participate (grad student with vast international first hand experience) on one of the panels...so it looks like a visit is in order! It would be an adventure to see what you have going on...up for visitors?

[Sanjay]

Originally posted by Herbert T. Kornfeld
Sanjay, 2 Qs...

One, I thought you tested the hamilton 250 - 14,000Ks in the DE version as well...they arent on the site...???

Also, in late Sept, Penn State is having some big meeting on china<<<not sure what exactly yet. My woman was asked to participate (grad student with vast international first hand experience) on one of the panels...so it looks like a visit is in order! It would be an adventure to see what you have going on...up for visitors?

I do not recall having tested a 250W 14KK hamilton DE lamp.

I do not know what this China meeting is.. but if you do come we will be happy to give you a tank tour.

sanjay.

[Sanjay]

Just updated the lighting website www.reeflightinginfo.arvixe.com today. It is now up to date with all the XM 15K lamps.

enjoy.

sanjay.

[Herbert T. Kornfeld]

Ouuuuch, those XM 15,000K results are crappy!

[Reefvet]

Originally posted by Herbert T. Kornfeld
Ouuuuch, those XM 15,000K results are crappy!

It really makes you wonder why they bothered.

[loweryster]

I second that

[glipper69]

I third that

[ReefSurge]

Hey correct me if I am wrong, can't seem to grasp the Sanjay page on lamp results. Maybe I' getting too old for this math and electrical stuff.

Running PFO 250W and 400W standard ballasts, the 10,000K XM bulbs put out the most PAR, right?

[Phoneguy982]

PPFD = PAR .... so the higher the # then the higher the PAR.

[Nanook]

Thread stickied for easier access to our members!

Nanook

[ghever]

Still trying to figure out if it is worth switching over from my 250w DE running on an icecap ballast to a 400w DE on a PFO or Taiwan ballast makes sense right now?

I have a 120g cube, 30 inches tall....guy i bought it from used the 250 with good success, I guess the reflector on the pendant is a good one... so wondering if I would be better off keeping it for now, or would the 400w DE be a better upgrade and give me more coverage in a 30in tall tank?

thanks
G

[alrha]

i recently ordered 400W IceCap DE. but i dont see much i can compare them to on the site.

[scuba steveo]

Thanks for all the info!

[katchupoy]

Sanjay, I dont know if this has been asked already or maybe somebody here can point me to another link or something...

Why do coralvues have two different 10k's on their 250 watt bulbs...

Coralvue SE1 and Coralvue SE2

And how to tell which one you are buying...

Thank you.

[Sceadu]

Sanjay, I just received a PFO Shimmer light fixture. The MH bulbs supplied with the fixture are Krystal Star 175w 11k's. Ever heard of these? I did a search for these bulbs but to no avail.

[Sanjay]

Just got a complete set of PFO Krystal Star lamps, I am burning them in right now and will be testing them next month.

sanjay.

[Herbert T. Kornfeld]

1000watters?!?!? Ever?

[katchupoy]

Sanjay, I dont know if this has been asked already or maybe somebody here can point me to another link or something...

Why do coralvues have two different 10k's on their 250 watt bulbs...

Coralvue SE1 and Coralvue SE2

And how to tell which one you are buying...

Thank you.

[GoldStripe]

Based on his Sanjay's results, the Aqualine Buschke 250W 20000K DE bulbs I have with IceCap eBallasts are virtually worthless with a PPFD of only 38? And, the best I can hope for is a PPFD of 97? Someone out there correct me if I'm wrong but maybe I should get rid of my IceCap ballasts??

[The Grim Reefer]

If you are going to run 20K lamps and e ballasts you wont have much PAR. I'd go through and see which 20K lamp has the highest PAR on the IC ballasts and go with them. My 14K EVC's running an EVC e ballast measure 55 on Sanjay's site and in the real world I get over a little over 90 on the bottom of the tank (18" below the surface)

[Herbert T. Kornfeld]

My cousin runs his tanks with nothing but AB 20,000Ks (DE) on his HQI ballast. he gets great growth and awesome looking corals.

[Sanjay]

Originally posted by katchupoy
Sanjay, I dont know if this has been asked already or maybe somebody here can point me to another link or something...

Why do coralvues have two different 10k's on their 250 watt bulbs...

Coralvue SE1 and Coralvue SE2

And how to tell which one you are buying...

Thank you.

Often times I get multiple lamps of the same brand and color temp. I test them both and label them as 1 and 2. It gives some idea of the variation between the lamps.

Coralvue changes thier lamps so often that I have no idea what to expect from thier lamp.

sanjay.

[GoldStripe]

So is PAR something to not put much weight upon? My tank will be 30" tall when I convert to the 150. I have one of these 20k's with the IC ballast over my 65 now and things are doing better than when I had 2x175 10k's and 2 x 96 actinic pc's.

[The Grim Reefer]

PAR is the light spectrum that grows corals. On a 30" tall tank I would go with 400 watt halides with top of the line reflectors and balasts if you want 20K lamps.

[Herbert T. Kornfeld]

Grim, not that I disagree, but I have noticed something and would like to make a hypothesis.

I dont think that its all about PAR. I have noticed that many corals develop better color under bluer bulbs...or that running a 10,000K alone doesnt always bring out the color or growth. I have had problems with 10,000Ks causing corals to 'brown out' from too much light...but I have yet to see a 20,000K that causes my corals to brown out & stunt growth. Why is it that if I run a tank with a 10,000K alone for 8 hours, my corals brown out, loose colors like blue & purple...yet if I limit it to 5 hours a day and run actinics 24hours a day they color in nicely?

From what I remember, PAR consists of a few spectrums in the blue and red spectrums. Plants and algae like the redder light...and corals seem to like the bluer. So it might be possible to have a bulb with lower overall PAR, yet more in the blue range than a higher overall rated bulb...Radiums anyone?

Just an idea. But I notice that 10,000Ks alone dont do it for me, even though they tend to have the highest PAR (well, besides a 6500K, but Im not going there).

[Reefvet]

I dont think that its all about PAR.


Fortunately corals don't understand PAR.

I've grown beautiful corals for years, several decades actually, with bulbs that would be tossed aside given today's mathematical criteria.

[The Grim Reefer]

Par is generally considered from 400 to 700nm. Actinic is 420 and still within the range of PAR.

This graph is for land based plants but it kinda gives you an idea of which colors are utalized the most.

http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/500/38553Plant-Human-Eye-Response_01.jpg

I figure everything would be shifted towards the blue end for corals and continue moving towards blue the deeper the coral was in the water. I figure acros and other shallow water corals should have quite a bit of red and yellow light. One thing to keep in mind is the 20K halide only puts out about 40 to 50% of the PAR a 10K does. It would be interesting to do a long term experiment running 20K 250's with 10K 150's to see what happens. You wouldn't have to worry about burning the corals with too much red and yellow from the 150's and the 250's would provide plenty of blue light for coloring.

[Herbert T. Kornfeld]

Care to elaborate...dont get what you mean...

[The Grim Reefer]

You said it wasn't all about PAR and your 20K lamps don't cause corals to brown out like a 10K does. The point I was trying to make is that blue light is still in the PAR spectrum so it is about PAR but perhaps more focus should be placed on quality rather than quantity. I was sorta agreeing with what you came up with but wondered if your corals did better because of the different spectrum of light or because it wasn't nearly as intense as the 10K's.

[Herbert T. Kornfeld]

sorry, I meant to direct my question to Reefvet...dont worry Grim, you and I are on the same page otherwise...I just didnt get what vet said.

I wonder what Sanjay might think...

[Reefvet]

Originally posted by Herbert T. Kornfeld
Care to elaborate...dont get what you mean...

Corals are highly adaptive, look at the wide range of morphs a given acro can grow into depending on the environment it's in. Water quality, current, ORP, calcium, just a few of the many factors involved in color and form in my experience.

I've grown corals under 6.5K Iwasakis that had more blue and green than identical frags grown by friends under VHO actinics and 20Ks.

PAR is such a small part of the equation.

[The Grim Reefer]

But a 6.5 Iwakawi is a PAR monster. I agree that the corals can adapt to different colors over time but they do need a certain degree of light to survive.

[schanz]

Doing different searches, it seemed to me that the Reef Fanantic ballast kicked butt.

[Herbert T. Kornfeld]

isnt that just another electronic though? I would just go HQI on just about everything these days...uless you have a really blue bulb that you are looking to preserve (like a xde or radium).

[schanz]

Kinda agree Herbert but doesn't HQI shorten SE bulb life?

[GoldStripe]

So what's the big advantage of an eballast (Icecap) over a PFO HQI ballast? I'm still confused and have already bought one Icecap 250. I'm contemplating getting rid of it looking at the PPFD values on Sanjay's site. PFO blows it away with any bulb.

[Travis]

Originally posted by Herbert T. Kornfeld
I would just go HQI on just about everything these days...uless you have a really blue bulb that you are looking to preserve (like a xde or radium).

Depends on what you are trying to accomplish. HQI's shorten bulb lifespan, as you mentioned. They also suck up more electricity and burn a lot hotter than other ballasts. I've ran HQI's for the past 3 years but will soon be "downgrading" to electronics.

[Sanjay]

I feel that with the better reflectors of today, "downgrading" to electronic is not much of an impact. Especially since you can also counteract the effect of slightly lower less output by bringing the lights just a little closer to the water. That is the nice thing about knowing the numbers. :-).

There is still illusive issue of lamp life, may be someday we can put it to rest.

As for the heat issue, you have to realize that energy in has to equal energy out. There is only a small % of energy that is being converted to light (25-30% or even less). The rest has to come out in some other form. Magnetic ballasts put it out as heat.. the electronic tend to put quite a bit out as electromagnetic waves hence the stories of EM interference with X10, TV reception etc.

Even the light that does not get used up for photsythesis eventually ends up as heat. So really for most practial purposes Watts IN = Heat OUT

My advice to most people is that unless its really not working for you (and you know its the cause), don't change anything.


sanjay.

[Herbert T. Kornfeld]

I like HQI in most cases, esp if you are going for the most output you can get (prolly paired with a 10,000K bulb then). In cases where I am looking to preserve a bulb that might otherwise color-shift or expire quicker on a HQI ballast (read: some 20,000Ks and radiums), then an electronic comes in handy. I can run Radiums for a year on an electronic ballast and they dont seem to color shift much...cant say the same for a HQI...6 months and the sucker is dead. Also, the radium just looks bluer on the icecap.

Something I found interesting...When I swapped out my 10,000K ABs recently for all pheonix 14,000Ks, I compared the 10,000Ks side by side with a new 10,000K. I found that the 10,000Ks on the HQI ballasts were very similar to an original output after a year of running, but with the icecap powered 10,000K, the bulbs were duller, and had color shifted more. I found this odd when I tested one, but after two, this cant be just a defective bulb x2. Is it possible for a 10,000K to last shorter on a icecap than a HQI? IME, it seems so.

I have a Q Sanjay. I have a problem with removing 250wattDE bulbs. I use PFO pendants, and these buggers just wont come out w/o a big fight. I was lucky this last time, as I only broke one bulb trying to remove it. Is there a trick that I should know? Figure I should ask you since you prolly have to do this more than anyone... You should see the inside reflectors on some of these pendants...all dented and bent behind the bulbs from my knuckles as I try to pry those buggers out. It seriously is one of my least favorite chores...whats the secret to getting a 250wattDE out of a PFO pendant?

[alrha]

what if you loosen the screws on the sockets, would that make it easier to get them out?

[The Grim Reefer]

Herbert T

Are you saying you tested a lamp that ran a year on an Ice Cap and one that was ran a year on HQI, OR you had 2 lamps you ran a year and tested one on an Ice Cap and 1 on a HQI?

I haven't tried this yet but for removing the 250's I was thinking something like a crochet hook to pry the lamps out.

[Herbert T. Kornfeld]

I have 4 250wattHQI lamps....2 on HQI, 2 on icecaps...paired up on 2 tanks. I removed one lamp from each and put in a new 10,000K to see how much of a difference there would be after burning for a year vs. a brand new one. The results prompted me to then put back in the bulb I had just taken out, and put the new bulb on the other ballast by swapping ballast plugs (to see if both bulbs had the same result both times). The bulbs run on the icecaps for 1 year had a different spectrum than brand new, and the ones run on the HQI had not changed as much. Im beginning to think that if a bulb is designed to run on HQI, run it on HQI! If its designed to run on magnetic, only then is electronic a suitable substitute...just an observation.

As for getting the bulbs out...I did resort to bending a wire behind and around the lamp at each end where the glass meets ceramic, and then pulling the wires...but while this did not dent the reflector like my hand did, and required much less force...the bulb broke because all of the force applied to such a small area.

There has to be an easier way....

[The Grim Reefer]

Interesting. Maybe mark those lamps and send them to Sanjay so he can measure the spectrum. That would be interesting to know.

[Herbert T. Kornfeld]

All I know is that since I went to the pheonix 14,000Ks, my red flatworm population has vanished. They must prefer light from a lower spectrum or something.

Oh, and make that 2 lamps that died when I took them out of PFO fixtures...just saw a crack on the other one's base today. I could send them to Sanjay...well, one at least...the other one lost its ceramic on one side.

[The Grim Reefer]

They could probably still be lite with no ceramic.

You think aquarium lamps are harsh. The lamp on the big screen TV went out today. About 300 buck with shipping for a new one.

[Felixc]

With more usable PPFD on unsheilded setup, I was thinking of removing the glass lense my Reef Optix pendant. Has anyone tried running it this way? If so, will small amount of water splashes cause the bulb to break?

[Herbert T. Kornfeld]

its a SE bulb I take it???

[Felixc]

Double Ended actually, that's why I am unsure.

[Herbert T. Kornfeld]

Removing the glass with DE bulbs is not an option. It is needed to block UV. Without it, your tank will be UV'ed and it could also hurt your eyes.

[Travis]

Herbert is right. DE bulbs do not have a UV shield around them so they require a glass lens to filter out the harmful uv rays. SE bulbs have a uv filtering outer envelope already built in so you don't need to run a lens with them.

[Sanjay]

Originally posted by Herbert T. Kornfeld

Something I found interesting...When I swapped out my 10,000K ABs recently for all pheonix 14,000Ks, I compared the 10,000Ks side by side with a new 10,000K. I found that the 10,000Ks on the HQI ballasts were very similar to an original output after a year of running, but with the icecap powered 10,000K, the bulbs were duller, and had color shifted more. I found this odd when I tested one, but after two, this cant be just a defective bulb x2. Is it possible for a 10,000K to last shorter on a icecap than a HQI? IME, it seems so.

I have a Q Sanjay. I have a problem with removing 250wattDE bulbs. I use PFO pendants, and these buggers just wont come out w/o a big fight. I was lucky this last time, as I only broke one bulb trying to remove it. Is there a trick that I should know? Figure I should ask you since you prolly have to do this more than anyone... You should see the inside reflectors on some of these pendants...all dented and bent behind the bulbs from my knuckles as I try to pry those buggers out. It seriously is one of my least favorite chores...whats the secret to getting a 250wattDE out of a PFO pendant?

You want to see my collection of lamps with the ceramic ends broken off :( and my collection of broken of holders, and cuts on my hand . I find that some of the Chinese lamps are the worst. May be the ceramic is not baked well enough or not the right mix, some just crumble with a little bit of force. I have found that loosening the sockets from the housing helps a bit. Creating that little bit of play helps accomodate the variation in the lamps a little better.

I would be very interested in testing your hypothesis that the HQI actually increased lamp life (or vice versa), so send me the lamps.

sanjay.

[Herbert T. Kornfeld]

I can bring them when I come to town...no problem. What else am I going to do with them anyways now..??? Do you want the ones with the broken bases too? Otherwise I have only one HQI 10,000K and one icecap 10,000K...

[causeofhim]

Herbert, I just saw somthing (at Home Depot I think) that you can put on the threads of a bulb to make it easier to get in and out of the socket. I was thinking about trying it.
Kind of a KY for bubs.

[Herbert T. Kornfeld]

There are no threads on DE bulbs...just clips...

[causeofhim]

Ah, I'm sorry. I thought you were talking about SE bulbs.

[bulldogfish]

Sanjay

I have a quick question. Currently I am running XM 10K off of a Magnatec 250W ballast. I am in the process of changing tanks, so I want to change bulbs. I want a little more blue but still want a good PAR. Would the coralVue Reeflux 10K bulbs be a good choice? Or should I stay with the XM's?

Thanks

[bulldogfish]

I forgot to mention the tank is going to be 24" tall.

[Herbert T. Kornfeld]

Need some details...M58 ballast is it? You just say magnetic...but there are a few. Also, single ended or double ended? For views have you seen this thread yet?
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=254667

[bulldogfish]

Herbert

Its a magnatec magnetic M58 ballast. Single ended.

Thanks for the link too.

[The Grim Reefer]

I'd stay away from XM 15K's, miserable PAR output.

Check out sanjays lighting page for ballasts and bulb outputs.

[Herbert T. Kornfeld]

Who said anything about XM 15,000Ks? Well, I think that the link provided will tell him what he wants to know.

[katchupoy]

I have both bulbs.... the reeflux is half of what xm can give you...
I suggest that if you want more blue then add more vho's

JMHO

[Herbert T. Kornfeld]

Aquaconnect 14,000Ks are high in output and 14,000K...

[The Grim Reefer]

Originally posted by Herbert T. Kornfeld
Who said anything about XM 15,000Ks? Well, I think that the link provided will tell him what he wants to know.

He was talking about getting more blue and mentioned sticking with XM's, wasnt sure if he was thinking about going from 10's to 15's. Would hate to see someone end up with those 15K's until they get them worked out better. Has to be a way to get the PAR up on those lamps.

Those aquaconnect lamps seem to be best for color and power.

[Herbert T. Kornfeld]

They are pretty expensive. Too bad he doesnt have HQI & DE...I love those pheonix bulbs...

[causeofhim]

I love the color of Aquaconnect 14,000Ks.

[Herbert T. Kornfeld]

Yeah, I hear they are the same bulb as the pheonix...er...one makes them for the other. At least according to the spectral graphs, they are identical. Its just that the pheonix is about half the price.

[The Grim Reefer]

I read somewhere tha Aquaconnect is a little more blue than the Phoenix. Dunno. I will probably try Phoenix when the EVC 14's are done just for the better PAR output.

[Sanjay]

I am sure your eyes cant tell the difference. If they can send me your eyes to use as a spectroradiometer :-)


sanjay.

[The Grim Reefer]

Originally posted by Sanjay
I am sure your eyes cant tell the difference. If they can send me your eyes to use as a spectroradiometer :-)


sanjay.

Is that between the EVC and Phoenix or Aquaconnect and Phoenix. The eyes are pretty good for color. I just wish they would quit making the print on everything smaller as I get older:D

[Sanjay]

Aquaconnect and Phoenix

sanjay.

[Mogrash]

Herbert,

I also had problems removing the DE bulbs from the clips. I found that by simply placing a toothpick into each clip (should be enough space between the ends of the bulb and the holder) this opens the clip up enough that the bulb then easily comes out...almost falls out.

Hope that helps.

[Herbert T. Kornfeld]

Thanks...Ill try that next time. Gosh, just browzing the spectral plots a moment ago...paying close attention not only to PPFD but the graphs as well. Those aquaconnects line up with the pheonix bulbs almost 100%...but compare the Radium 250wattSE with the pheonix 250wattDE...wow. Same PAR, and near identical graphs...the radium just has a little more in the near ultraviolet range. Wow. And just that little bit seems to make it look so much bluer. Hmmm. Comparing the pheonix to the XM 20,000Ks even reveals the same similarity, and if nothing else....really makes the XM bulbs look useless...esp the 15,000Ks.

Sanjay, are you going to get some megachrome 14,500Ks for testing ever?

[Reefvet]

You really do have to wonder what the point of the XM 15ks was supposed to be. They don't seem to be good at anything.

The XM 250W DE 20K over a small tank is a great light, no need for actinics and great coral growth. I run one on my 30 cube and love it.

[Sanjay]

[i]

Sanjay, are you going to get some megachrome 14,500Ks for testing ever? [/B]

If someone can send me the lamps I will test them. I have been made promises from Phil at Giesmann in canada, but I have yet to see the lamps.

sanjay.

[xabo]

Originally posted by Sanjay
If someone can send me the lamps I will test them. I have been made promises from Phil at Giesmann in canada, but I have yet to see the lamps.

sanjay.

I have a MegaChrome 14.5 DE I'm not using. If you like you can test it.

[Deuce67]

Hi Sanjay! Got a question. It seems there is a big difference in PPFD between the shielded and non shielded test. Im not sure what you used for a shield but, do you think PPFD would go up if you use some type of a low iron glass or clearer glass thats still capable of blocking UV? Im running 150 de on an hqi ballast using 10k xde. Shielded is 61 and non shielded is 77. Pretty big diff. Thanks!

[Sanjay]

Well, with a DE lamp you are going to have to run it with the glass shield on the fixture. Its possible that a low iron glass may increase the light output. I have not tested this... something I should do one of these days. In general I have seen a loss of about 15-20% due to the glass shield used (depends on the lamp's spectral output). I basically place the glass shield over the sensor when I test the lamps as "shielded".

Anyone know where I can find a smallish peice of thin low iron glass ?

sanjay.

[reefcrazed]

Has XM done anything to increase the par ON THEIR 15k'S YET?

[Travis]

But would a low iron glass shield still block the harmful uv rays from the DE bulb? I guess you could check the spectrum when you get a piece to test Sanjay.

[Deuce67]

Ahhh! Somebody please send Sanjay a piece of low iron glass!

[dukecola]

Originally posted by Reefvet
Fortunately corals don't understand PAR.

I've grown beautiful corals for years, several decades actually, with bulbs that would be tossed aside given today's mathematical criteria.

You are so right!

I grew awesome corals with three 175W 5500k Hamiltons. I'd be laughed at today for using them. Heck, we were thrilled when the 6500k bulb came out! When will the insanity end.:)

[Sanjay]

Originally posted by dukecola
You are so right!

I grew awesome corals with three 175W 5500k Hamiltons. I'd be laughed at today for using them. Heck, we were thrilled when the 6500k bulb came out! When will the insanity end.:)

Well, this should be enough evidence that corals do actually understand PAR. :-) its the spikey blue spectrum that they could care less about.

sanjay.

[capnskunk]

Sanjay,

Have you tested or even heard of South Pacific Sunlight bulbs? I havent heard anything about them. I did fire a 20K up on a PFO HQI 400w ballast. It has a similar color to a XM 400w 20K on the same ballast, but I was wondering its PPFD. I can send you a couple bulbs for testing if you want. Thanks.

[wfgworks]

Sanjay

Have you gotten any of the new BLV/Ushio 14K bulbs yet?

I know they are not available here in the US market buy are available overseas.

[Sanjay]

Originally posted by capnskunk
Sanjay,

Have you tested or even heard of South Pacific Sunlight bulbs? I havent heard anything about them. I did fire a 20K up on a PFO HQI 400w ballast. It has a similar color to a XM 400w 20K on the same ballast, but I was wondering its PPFD. I can send you a couple bulbs for testing if you want. Thanks.

I think these are the bulbs being sold by SDC. Sure go ahead and send me the bulbs, but only if you are not in a hurry to get them back. I am way back logged with work, and light testing has to take a back seat for a bit.

I am just about 1/2 way through testing the 175W lamps.

sanjay.

[Sanjay]

Originally posted by wfgworks
Sanjay

Have you gotten any of the new BLV/Ushio 14K bulbs yet?

I know they are not available here in the US market buy are available overseas.

I have not got them yet. Guys at Ushio told me that they will get me a sample.

sanjay.

[want2reef]

Sanjay


Is the EVC tech ballast, the same spec wise as the Reeffanatic ballast.

Thanks,

Kevin

[Sanjay]

Almost all electronic ballasts seem to be quite similar to each other in performance, and the variation in performance is quite small.

sanjay.

[capnskunk]

Sanjay,

PM me where you want me to send the bulbs and Ill get them over to you. And Im in no hurry to get them back.

[MARSHALL MANN]

Sanjay just wondering if you think there is a big loss of par by using electronic ballast v m80s or hqi ballasts 250 and 400 watt

MM

[Herbert T. Kornfeld]

Why dont you see for yourself? Thats what the site is for.

[Psyire]

According to Vince w/ OceanEncounter, the EVC ballast is a different ballast than the reeffanatic ballast. How similar they are... well I have no idea.

[Herbert T. Kornfeld]

Sanjay, would you consider doing some 1000watters for comparison? I would send you what you need. I have a PFO 220v ballast, lumenarc3, and two bulbs....a 14,000K hamilton, and a 20,000K (forget by who right now). I would like to see if all the extra wattage really translates into that much more output...from looking into those results on the happy reefing DE bulbs...I might consider two of those instead of a single 1000...or something along those lines...

Or is there some other reasoning for why those Happy Reefing 400wattDE bulbs scored sooooo high? Some negating factor or something? Their spectral plots seem all over the place as well.

[Sanjay]

Originally posted by Herbert T. Kornfeld
Sanjay, would you consider doing some 1000watters for comparison? I would send you what you need. I have a PFO 220v ballast, lumenarc3, and two bulbs....a 14,000K hamilton, and a 20,000K (forget by who right now). I would like to see if all the extra wattage really translates into that much more output...from looking into those results on the happy reefing DE bulbs...I might consider two of those instead of a single 1000...or something along those lines...

Or is there some other reasoning for why those Happy Reefing 400wattDE bulbs scored sooooo high? Some negating factor or something? Their spectral plots seem all over the place as well.

I could do hte 1000W lamps, one of hte reaswons for not doing any so far always has been that the ballasts are 220V. I do not have 220V outlets nearby.

those HR lamps are not really sooo high in output. Infact there are 400W moguls that come close to them at 1/2 the cost.

sanjay.

[want2reef]

Sanjay,

Which reflector are you using on your SE tests?

Thanks,
Kevin

[Sanjay]

Go to my website and look at the following articles for all the reflectors tested. They are listed in the articles section.

Joshi, S. and Marks, Timothy, 2003. Analyzing Reflectors: Part 1 - Mogul Reflectors, Advanced Aquarist, March 2003
Joshi, S. and Marks, Timothy, 2003. Analyzing Reflectors: Part II - Double Ended Lamp Reflectors, Advanced Aquarist, July 2003.
Joshi, S. and Marks, Timothy, 2004. Analyzing Reflectors: Part III, Advanced Aquarist, March 2004.
Joshi, S. 2004. Analyzing Reflectors: 400W DE Reflectors, Advanced Aquarist, Dec. 2004.

sanjay.

[want2reef]

Sanjay,

Sorry but I did'nt see where it specified which reflector you used on the SE tests. Or did you use different reflectors during your tests?

Thanks
Kevin

[Sanjay]

Originally posted by want2reef
Sanjay,

Sorry but I did'nt see where it specified which reflector you used on the SE tests. Or did you use different reflectors during your tests?

Thanks
Kevin

Ahh.. I think I understand what you are asking. When I test the lamps by themselves I test them without a reflector.

sanjay.

[MARSHALL MANN]

Sanjay
i have a 300 gal. starphire 96 L X 30 deep x 24 tall

im going to be running 3 400 hqi pfo pendants for daylights
and 2 250 20k moguls for dawn to dusk

just wondering what hqi lamps and wich 20k lamps you recomend for this applicacation

the tank will be a combo of clams, lps, montis and a few table acros

any suggestions would be great
thanks MM

[Waidesworld]

Has anyone thought of introducing Blue LED lighting for the night effects? Surely the cost savings on power will be enormous. Currently we are experimenting with land plants and blue/red LEDs but I know blue is good for corals. Our wavelength is 464nm on our current product offering with a constant cutrrent draw of 350mA and a power of 7.2Watts. The luminous flux of this is 48 Lumens.

[pvtschultz]

Yup, we use LEDs made by autolumination.com for night lights. Work great and are fairly inexpensive.

[Siffy]

Anyone know of any studies of light intensity from LEDs under tank circumstances (ie, 16" of water or more)? I'm curious if there might be the possibility of a change from MH over to LEDs in the next few years. Lower operating costs, lower wattages, less heat, higher efficeincy, etc.

[Reefvet]

Originally posted by Siffy
Anyone know of any studies of light intensity from LEDs under tank circumstances (ie, 16" of water or more)? I'm curious if there might be the possibility of a change from MH over to LEDs in the next few years. Lower operating costs, lower wattages, less heat, higher efficeincy, etc.

LEDs are not even in the ball park yet, much less a replacement for MH. For example, LEDs have finally found their way into tail lights on cars, but you don't see them used for headlights and MH is much brighter than a conventional car headlight.

The efficiency has a long way to go before LEDs are anything more than moonlight in a reef tank.

[Waidesworld]

http://www.germancarfans.com/news.cfm/newsid/2050418.005/general/1.html

LEDs as car headlights are a lot closer than you think.

[Waidesworld]

LEDs as car headlights are a lot closer than you think. But my original post was not the LED replacing the HIDs but for the blue night effect, LEDs are available and should be taken into consideration.
Headlights (http://www.germancarfans.com/news.cfm/newsid/2050418.005/general/1.html)


DRAGON Tape (http://www.gilway.com/pdf/DRAGONtape.pdf)

[Sanjay]

Yes, a lot of people are using blue led as moonlight.

As for LED's replacing HID lighitng... I personally think they are still far away from actual application given the cost right now. In the future it may be possible when the costs come down.

After all photons are photons, and if you can cram enough photon generators you can match the intensity. :-)

sanjay.

[Siffy]

Sanjay,

But where are LEDs on your testing schedule? I have no idea how long it takes to set up your testing equipment, but it might be interesting to see the spectrum (likely very narrow) and intensity of a 1 Watt white or blue LED. No doubt the world couldn't replace its HID lamps tomorrow with them, but advancements in LEDs have been pretty quick in the past few years. The technology isn't very old, and I see it evolving much more over the next decade.

[Waidesworld]

LED technology in terms of brightness and power is doubling abut every nine to ten months at present.

[Herbert T. Kornfeld]

I like the fact that you can find 420, 410, and 450 nm, and pure white LEDs, and lace them together to get one larger light source.

Over at nano-reef.com, many people have been swapping around, toying with, and building entire light canopies out of LEDs (superbrights and regular). All seem to have great results.

The best example is a 2.5g that runs entirely on LEDs to grow not only softies, but SPS and LPS as well.

[Siffy]

Sweet. That's the kind of stuff I was wanting to see. Herbert, you have any links/threads on nano reef you could PM me?

[Herbert T. Kornfeld]

There are so many...just go to NR and do a search in their new & improved forum search engine...it works very well.

[Deuce67]

Hi Sanjay! What would you recommend as a minimum PPFD one should have on an sps tank thats 24" deep? Thanks!

[Sanjay]

Originally posted by Deuce67
Hi Sanjay! What would you recommend as a minimum PPFD one should have on an sps tank thats 24" deep? Thanks!

Based on my personal experience, if you pick a lamp with a PPFD of 100 or more in my tests you will be fine in a 24" deep tank. Assuming you have a decent reflector.

This gives you enough light in your tank to have clams at the bottom of the tank (not in the corners) and grow SPS corals about 2/3rds of the way from the top of the tank.

sanjay.

[Deuce67]

Thanks Sanjay. Im running a pair of 250 phoenix on PFO minis. The PPFD on the phoenix is 88 shielded on a PFO M80. Is this something I should be concern about?

[wfgworks]

Sanjay

Have you received a Ushio/BLV 14K yet to test?

[Sanjay]

Originally posted by Deuce67
Thanks Sanjay. Im running a pair of 250 phoenix on PFO minis. The PPFD on the phoenix is 88 shielded on a PFO M80. Is this something I should be concern about?

No.. because when I said 100... I should have mentioned I was talking about the unshielded numbers.

sanjay.

[Herbert T. Kornfeld]

Huh? So you mean more like 80 then for sheilded DE or unsheilded SE then?

[Herbert T. Kornfeld]

Where can I find the actual running wattages for 400watt ballasts? I want to know if 3x250wattHQIs (which can add up to 350watts each x 3 = 1050) could actually end up being more than dual 400s on HQI which can go up to what wattage?

[Sanjay]

Originally posted by Herbert T. Kornfeld
Huh? So you mean more like 80 then for sheilded DE or unsheilded SE then?

Yes, if you want to use the shielded numbers for the DE then for a SPS tank about 24" deep, you would have no problem growing SPS corals in the top half to 2/3rd of your tank with DE lamps that have Shielded PPFD values of 80 - ofcourse this is assuming you have good clean reflectors.

sanjay.

[Sanjay]

Originally posted by Herbert T. Kornfeld
Where can I find the actual running wattages for 400watt ballasts? I want to know if 3x250wattHQIs (which can add up to 350watts each x 3 = 1050) could actually end up being more than dual 400s on HQI which can go up to what wattage?

Did you check the lighting website. It has data for actual watts used for each lamp/ballast combo that I tested.

sanjay.

[B.PETERSEN]

Originally posted by Sanjay
Yes, if you want to use the shielded numbers for the DE then for a SPS tank about 24" deep, you would have no problem growing SPS corals in the top half to 2/3rd of your tank with DE lamps that have Shielded PPFD values of 80 - ofcourse this is assuming you have good clean reflectors.

sanjay.

Sanjay,

Would spider reflectors be considered good in this case. I know they are not the best ones....

[causeofhim]

Sanjay,
Has there been any testing in the Hamilton "TRUE 10K" bulbs?

[Sanjay]

I do not know what you mean by the TRUE 10K lamps.. I have tested some Hamilton lamps, they are on the website. In the next installment of data I will have data on the Hamilton 175W lamps.

sanjay.

[gucer]

Thanks a lot for all the work and time invested by you in our hobby:)
Want to ask if you know who actually made EVC DE bulbs. I mean, if they are built by othepeople (OSRAM, Phillips, etc) or if they have their own factory and where are they built (USA, Germany, etc).

[Sanjay]

Originally posted by gucer
Thanks a lot for all the work and time invested by you in our hobby:)
Want to ask if you know who actually made EVC DE bulbs. I mean, if they are built by othepeople (OSRAM, Phillips, etc) or if they have their own factory and where are they built (USA, Germany, etc).

I do not know who makes those lamps. Contact Vince at www.oceanencounter.com and he may tell you, given that he is the one bringing these lamps in.

sanjay.

[alten78]

Awesome site, but I am unable to compare two different bulbs :(

I will be replacing my 250W AB DE 20kk shortly, its a single bulb setup so no actinics for me, heard good things about the phoenix 14kk and was wondering if this would be a better choice. Ideas or suggestions?

[AquaticCo]

I have been told that the Phoenix bulb is coming from Japan. FWIW

Doug

[causeofhim]

Sanjay,
What instrument can you use to test the age/effectiveness of a halide bulb? I would like to get as much use out of my bulbs as possible and have thought about purchasing something to test them. What would I need and where would I buy it?

[Herbert T. Kornfeld]

Doug...you dont say!!!

http://www.phoenix-elec.co.jp/index.htm

[Sanjay]

Originally posted by causeofhim
Sanjay,
What instrument can you use to test the age/effectiveness of a halide bulb? I would like to get as much use out of my bulbs as possible and have thought about purchasing something to test them. What would I need and where would I buy it?

The instrument you would need is called a PAR or Quantum meter. A "cheap" one is the Apogee PAR meter and it wil do fine for comparative purposes. It has its flaws, but for what you want to do it will suffice.

http://www.apogee-inst.com/pdf_files/qmsw-ss.pdf

sanjay.

[Lionfan]

Sanjay, I have been using 175W Coralue 14K's with T5 pure actinic supplementation on my 72G bow. I am not happy with visual color and tank seems fairly dim. I will continue to use the T5's but would I be better off with 10K XM's or 10K ushio's for a nice crisp white and good par? Thanks so much for any help. I am using the Aquatinics fixture which sits flush on tank.

[causeofhim]

Let's look at the 250 watt SE test to compare.
I'm not sure what ballast that is so i'll just use a standard ballast for comparison:

CoralVue 12K 44.18 PPFD
CoralVue 15K 39 PPFD
XM 10k 137 PPFD
Ushio 10k 118.2 PPFD

If your ballast is different it may change these numbers a bit. But you can see that the XM and Ushio will give you much more kick in the PAR and will be a more crisp white light.

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/july2004/review.htm
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/aug2004/review.htm

[jsc0787]

where can you buy those 400 watt hqi tawain ballasts?

[Sanjay]

I am not sure who is retailing it. I was told that it was being brought in by ALL SEAS (a wholesaler).

sanjay.

[whitesquall]

Hello Sanjay,

I am in the market for 250w se bulb's..... for the last year an a half i've been running AB 10k's .....but going forward i'd like to see a little more on the blue side.....

Somewhere in the 14k range maybe? with high PAR.

They will be run with the icecap electronic ballast with 1-10k & 1-super actinic VHO as supplements.

What would you suggest?

Thanks AL.

[jsc0787]

any numbers for 400 watt se 6500k iwasaki? the 250 watt gives 189 par on pfo, wondering what par a 400 watt would put out.

[Sanjay]

Originally posted by jsc0787
any numbers for 400 watt se 6500k iwasaki? the 250 watt gives 189 par on pfo, wondering what par a 400 watt would put out.

The data I have for the Iwasaki 400W on standard magnetic ballast had a PPFD of about 205. Those lamps were test way back in 1997 and I lost all that data to a virus, hence it not on the web site. Its in the very first article I wrote.

sanjay.

[Sanjay]

The first set of data on 175W lamps is now available.

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2005/11/aafeature2

enjoy.

sanjay.

[Crusty Old Shellback]

Sanjay,
Great site and a lot of useful info. I did not however see any info on the coralvue 400 W DE's. Do you have any numbers on these or any other 400W DE bulbs? I'm going to run 4 of them on a 7' long, 3' deep tank. I have coralvue 400 W HQI electronic ballast to run them with. Just looking for some good bulbs to use. Thanks.

[k9asia]

any comparison on 150 and 250 HQIs Im looking at 3 150 or 3 250 14k HQI with VHO actinic but need some recomendation on setup Ie... it will be in a canopy on a 225 72 long x 30deep x 24 high (so should i go with a fixture or pendents or retro im cornfused....

[Sanjay]

Originally posted by blown63chevy
Sanjay,
Great site and a lot of useful info. I did not however see any info on the coralvue 400 W DE's. Do you have any numbers on these or any other 400W DE bulbs? I'm going to run 4 of them on a 7' long, 3' deep tank. I have coralvue 400 W HQI electronic ballast to run them with. Just looking for some good bulbs to use. Thanks.

I have not seen the coralvue 400 DE.

sanjay.

[fkadir]

Sanjay, did you had the chance to test out the new 14kk BLVs? Thanks

[Crusty Old Shellback]

Thanks. Have you tested any of the 400W DE bulbs?

[Crusty Old Shellback]

Have you tested any of the 400 W DE bulbs? Just looking for info before I go buy new bulbs.

The pendants I got came with 2 20K and 1 14K bulbs that were used. The 20K's have a nice blue white color but the 14K was real yellow.

[Herbert T. Kornfeld]

Did you look on the site...there are many 400wattDE bulbs listed...

[Sanjay]

Originally posted by blown63chevy
Have you tested any of the 400 W DE bulbs? Just looking for info before I go buy new bulbs.

The pendants I got came with 2 20K and 1 14K bulbs that were used. The 20K's have a nice blue white color but the 14K was real yellow.

Yes. Check the site.

From what I have heard, there are only 2 sources for the lamps. One in China and one in Korea. Hence there are differences in the lenght of the lamps.

The Happy Reefing lamps that I tested are Chinese, and as far as I know HR is out of business. It is quite possible that others are bringing in the same lamps witih private labels.

I have a collection of the PFO Krystal Star lamps in queue to be tested.

sanjay.

[wfgworks]

Sanjay

Have you collected any data on the NEW BLV/USHIO 14K?

I just put one over my tank and its bright for a 14K.

[Sanjay]

Its also in the queue. I am finishing of the 175W lamps right now.

Unfortunately, there is only a limited amount of time I can spend doing this. :D

sanjay.

[The Grim Reefer]

We need a Sanjay clone:D

[Aquatic Hamster]

I'm looking at buying a couple of pendant lights. The model I like right now is the Aqua Medic Ocean Pendant, 250 DE bulbs. It comes with a magnetic ballast, but says it can be upgraded to an electronic ballast. Can I assume that the magnetic ballast is an M80 and will perform close to the results given on Sanjay's giant database of light.