check out this kids nano

[Detritivore]

check out this kids SPS nano! it seriously looks better than mine!

from: http://haaga.aqua-web.org/Nano/index.htm

http://haaga.aqua-web.org/Nano/p1010279_std.jpg

http://haaga.aqua-web.org/Nano/p1010286_std.jpg

http://haaga.aqua-web.org/Nano/p1010229_std.jpg

http://haaga.aqua-web.org/Nano/p1010249_std.jpg

[Detritivore]

http://haaga.aqua-web.org/Nano/p1010236_std.jpg

[Detritivore]

http://haaga.aqua-web.org/Nano/p1010273_std.jpg

[akirasan]

What makes you think the tank belongs to the kid? He's just standing beside a tank :D

Seriously though, those corals are really growing! Check out how they veer towards the light! Fantastic stuff and beautiful tank. Once those spaces start filling up, you're looking at the next TOTM!

[Mchava]

and to think that all he is using is two canister filters and 4 15watt NO bulbs. Not even a skimmer. I wish my tank had all does colors.

[skier06]

great little tank, alot nicer than my 90. kinda off topic, what is that last coral there?

[SeanT]

Last coral in the center looks like a Pocillipora.

[thrlride]

I find it hard to believe that is 4 15watt NO bulbs.

[skier06]

the tan skinned one?

[CamBarr]

wow that is one sweet nano. defiantly makes me want to set one up.
I don't know how this tank is so successful?
It looks pretty well established still looks like a newer tank.
these are some of the things I noticed.

Lighting: NO fluorescent. Lacking intensity but good color and im sure they have a acceptable PAR. no doubt in my mind that you can run a amazing SPS tank with Fluorescent lighting.

Filtration: canister filter??? i understand how they are using it mainly for circulation but wouldn't this cause a ton of problems in the nitrite/ammonia area? not to mention dissolved organics and nutrients??

DSB: Not to start a DSB/BB war but i personally am not a fan of DSB'S in SPS tanks(just my personal preference i have used both found the bb method to work better ) but my point is wouldn't this add to the ongoing phosphate/high nutrient lever that would inhibit color/growth?

What the heck makes this tank so successful?
I would like to set up a tank with similar lighting but run it bb as an experiment so see what happens?

Maybe its just that amazing EURO magic water???

cb

[jshorter]

I am wondering how long the tank has been set up? There is no sign of coralline algae, etc. I could almost bet that the tank was set up, and all the corals have only been in there for a short period of time! It would be interesting to see this same tank in a month or 2....I bet it wouldn't look the same!!!

Just my observations. :)

Jason

[Adrian]

I see coralline...I also see acros and montis that have started to encrust ;)

[jshorter]

Yea, I see a LITTLE coralline. And montipora can encrust quickly. I just have a funny feeling that this tank is a "weekend" set-up, and that most of the corals were tossed in, and the pictures taken. I can't imagine this tank being able to survive on it's current set-up for any length of time!!

[CamBarr]

Looking at the photos I too noticed the same thing. But the corals are starting to encrust upon the substrate and the sand looks somewhat established???

[Adrian]

Well not to argue, but IME it takes longer than a weekend, at least a couple of months for coralline to grow, and definitely for an acro to start to encrust, not to mention the fact that the birdsnest is obviously growing into the light. Have you ever kept sps under NO or just going by what youve read ;)

[CamBarr]

I personally Have kept SPS under NO. My results were pretty good.
Color held well in most species but there was a defiant lack of growth. I also had a bunch of macro algae's grow which isn't a big deal but they can get out of control

[CamBarr]

also im not bagging on this tank im just trying to figure out why its is successful??? the method used is not of the norm?

[jshorter]

I tried SPS under NO when I first started the hobby years ago. I can say...it didn't work! And I had more watts per gallon than this set up.

[CamBarr]

bingo- I think I may be on to something here.
ok this system depends on 3 different types of media.
Carbon, phosphate remover and DENITRATE.
Hmm de nitrate????? with further investigation DENITRATE sounds to be doing the same thing as ZEOVIT yes i said it ZEOVIT
first by using the canister filter he is fluidizing the media.(sounds kinda like a zeo filter?)
sea chem states this : DIRECTIONS: For best results, de*nitrate™ should be placed to assure the flow of water through it, such as in a canister filter, chemical filtration module, or box filter. Flow rate should not exceed 200 L (50 gallons*) per hour. If higher flow rates are unavoidable, use Matrix™ or Pond Matrix™. It is best to rinse off dust before use. Once de*nitrate™ has been in use for several days, nitrate concentrations should start to fall and level off gradually at a concentration of about 4–5 mg/L as nitrate. As long as nitrate concentrations remain under control, the product is not exhausted. Each 500 mL of de*nitrate™ treats about 100–200 L (25–50 gallons*), depending on initial nitrate concentration and the current biological load. Enough should be used to remove nitrate at a rate at least as fast as the rate of formation. If very high nitrates are initially present, they should be brought down to less than 20 mg/L with water changes.

sounds kinda like the same principle of a zeolith?
please correct me if im wrong?
cb

[jedininja]

It really does look like a new tank to me. Very little corraline, and most of the encrusting that you see on encrusting on reef plugs/rubble that has been putty epoxyed to the rock.

[moobar]

The kids tank is setup/run by Marko Haaga, his tank was TOTM a while ago here. So he propably knows what he is doing :)

Heres Marko's site:

http://haaga.aqua-web.org/

[LeftCoast]

I doubt Tapio (the kid) does all of the matinence work on that tank. It was probably just put into his room.

[jedininja]

Not saying that it wont be a good tank, just looks very new.

[jshorter]

I'm not knocking the tank either. It is very nice looking, and if it works, then great! All I am saying is, I want to see that SAME tank/set-up, 3-4 months from now. That's all.

[ctsieber]

http://haaga.aqua-web.org/Nano/p1010229_std.jpg
i'd love to get ahold of a peice of that red acro to the left

[LeftCoast]

I'm pretty sure that's a Seriatophora hystrix (birds' nest coral).

[jedininja]

Yup, typical pink/red birdsnest.

[thrlride]

Why are we SPS keepers using metal halides if NO flourescents work?

[jedininja]

I'm really not sure how well NO works. And even if it does work, it can only work pretty much on corals closest to the surface. No matter how much NO bulbs you have, it will not be able to penetrate deep enough into the water for most people's tank.

I'm still skeptical on how the corals will do long term under NO though.

[Jahkaya]

If you look, all the corals are within ten inches of the bulbs with the Sand bed. The Bulbs are in proper INDIVIDUAL reflectors and are driven by an electonic ballast. That would be plenty of par to keep the corals healthy and thriving. I am sure the growth is nowhere near what it would be if had T-5's, VHO or halides, but still enough to keep the corals healthy.

If he does weekly 20 percent water changes and has just the two fish in the ten gallon, that would account for the water quality regardless what he puts in the canister filter.

I am betting that the rock is of high quality and the person maintaining it is well expericenced with SPS.

[haaga]

Hello and many thanks of your comments of our nano. The tank is certainly been taken care by me and my son together :) .

The tank was set up over 6 months ago. First there was the sand and live rock, in couple of weeks two clown fish was added. First corals were fungia and Seriatopora hystrix after about month. All the corals have been in the tank at least three months. The grow rate and the colours have been almost as good as in my main Zeovit tank during that time.

The main thing in succesful nano keeping just like in all reefkeeping is to maintain nearzero dissolved nutritient levels in the water. This is achieved in our nano with iron based phosphate remover and Seachem denitrate and activated carbon. I suppose that maybe some carbon based food for the bacteria is bond to the denitrate, because about two weeks after starting it, there were bacteria films in our nano in many surfaces, and a lot of gas bubbles (Nitrogen I suppose) rising from the sand bed and from the canister filter and the nitrate value of the water lowered quickly. After some weeks bacteria films slowly disappeared. The coralline algea grows very slowly in our nano just like in my main zeovit tank. There is many macroalgea species in the nano, and they also grow quite slowly.

The low nutritients could not be maintained in our tank with 20% water changes even when it was done every week (now it is done once every 2 weeks). The tank is guite small and there in three fish in it. Both phosphate and nitrate rose to dangerous levels to corals. Nitrate was 20 - 30 ppm. After 1 month with denitrate it was 0 according to two different aquarium test kits I have.

When I started my reefkeeping over ten years ago, I kept succesful reef aquariums for years with NO fluorescents only, and I can say from my experience that it really is possible to do so. You need a lot of tubes of course, but with about 1w/1l (4w/1gallon) of light, you can keep and grow almost all photosynthetic corals and also get good colours also with NO tubes.


Yours

Marko
:) :) :)

[alphaferret]

nice thnks for th info- & your son is going to be areefer god someday- knows more than me already!-lol

hope to teach my child someday

[APorter]

That should take care of all the doubters.

[alphaferret]

off topic sorry-hey a porter what do you use for a canopy for your 46 bow - i got one too- but my canopy is a box not nice and curved lioke the tank

[alphaferret]

also side note is a 54 really a nano

[New_Noob]

54g? no nanos are considered 29 and below.

[APorter]

alphaferret- My tank is open top and I'm using a JBJ 2*96W PC Deluxe Formosa setup. I should say used to use these lights as I've taken the tank down and I'm selling the set-up. Currently working on a in-wall set-up that will be a mixed reef, but weighed heavy on the SPS side.

[Ilia]

54l

[New_Noob]

13.5g yes it is

[thrlride]

I should be able to keep anything in my 5 gallon nano with 40 watts of light then. (forming the shopping list now)

[cj_basser]

So i could put a clam in my Nano-Cube DX.......which is hooked up to my main system, and has a total of about 50g of water?

That is an awosme tank!!!

[Detritivore]

if you look at the advanced aquarist TOTM, youu will see that he also uses NO flourescents and keeps acropora...pretty interesting...

[WZHANG]

Just to point out, not only is he using an electronic ballast, but it looks as if he is overdriving 4 15 watt bulbs (60 watts) on a 2x54 watt rated ballast (108 watts)

The tank is beautiful, but I don't think I'd dare try something like that.

[Peabody]

Originally posted by cj_basser
[B]So i could put a clam in my Nano-Cube DX.......which is hooked up to my main system, and has a total of about 50g of water?
B]

No way man, not with stock lighting....that is likely not enough light to sustain a clam past 6 months or so. Check the clam forum for experiences of people who have tried (Most all die)

[bement14]

The tank looks nice. It is nice and clean with only slight traces of algae. Do you clean algae like twice a day? LOL.

[LukFox]

Beautiful tank and so clean too! Great job, you and your son : ).

And does anyone know what the green/grayish coral in the background on the left in the 6th pic is? I've got something identical to it.. thanks.

[haaga]

Yes, you surely get more output from NO fluorescent tube when you drive them with bigger electric ballast. I use now one 2 x 54 w Osram ballast with 4 x 15w NO tubes.

In the start the tubes were driven with two Hagen 2 x 40w electric ballasts. I measured then that the LUX output increased about 30% in daylight tube. The ballast was not so good in quality and it did not last longer than couple of weeks. I haven't measured the power increase with current Osram ballast.

And of course you need good individual reflectors to get the best of your tube. Also in good metal halide light units you have individual reflector in every bulb :)

Marko

[haaga]

I had all the equipment at home for that 4 x 15w setup. If I would not had them, I would have used 4 x 24w T5 tubes to light the nano. ATI Powermodul 4 x 24w would have been an excellent choise. That gives 2w / 1l, and it surely is enough.

Marko

[Adrian]

Marko, how old is the tank? It looks great ;)

[thrlride]

I've never seen a metal halide bulb with a built in reflector...

[Adrian]

I think hes referring to the individual reflectors used with halides, in the pics you can see each NO tube as a seperate reflector.

[thrlride]

Originally posted by haaga
Also in good metal halide light units you have individual reflector in every bulb :)

Marko

I read this and the reflector 'in' every bulb is why I thought he meant built in reflectors.

[Adrian]

Yeah its a little confusing for sure, but I dont think Markos first language is English ;)

[thrlride]

:) Didn't think about that. ;)

[Ben]

better watch those hydroids or is it just m that sees them?

[haaga]

thrldride: sorry, my mistake, I was trying to say it is important to have individual reflectors with every fluorescent tube like you have with metal halide bulbs. Or jokaisen loisteputken kanssa on tärkeää käyttää yksilöllistä heijastinta kuten metallihalogeeni polttimoilla :D


Marko

[alphaferret]

oohhh boy!

[thrlride]

LOL, I don't have a clue what you just said but I imagine it's the same thing :D

[WZHANG]

I think its really cool that you are overdriving NO bulbs Haaga, do you have any idea on how long those 18 watt bulbs will last being powered at 27 watts?

[Bamm Bamm]

they probably set the tank up with established stuff from a larger system then took pictures when the water cleared=)

[haaga]

won digity: no idea yet. They have been runing for about 5 months now and everything seems fine. And the tubes were 15w each.

Bamm Bamm: good idea, I will do it next time ;)

[Mark]

Guys, Haaga is an experienced reefer. Not only was his tank an RC TOTM, his older reef was featured in Fossa and Nilsen's Modern Coral Reef Aquarium, vol 3. The tank highlighted in Nilsen's book was lit with NO floursecents and had a massive acropora filling up the right side of his tank.

Kudos Marko on the nice nano-reef.:)

[WZHANG]

Sorry my mistake about the 15 watters :)

This is really interesting though. I got really turned off on the idea of overdriving NO bulbs when I read responses to a thread here in the DIY forum (and I have seen similar threads in other forums). Alot of people were saying that bulb life will be greatly reduced, so it isn't worth it:( But, 5 months and still going is some pretty good inspiration.

Thanks Haaga.

[CamBarr]

hagga do you have any updated pics of the nano
cameron

[haaga]

CamBarr: sorry, don't have any new pictures yet.
By the way, old pictures were taken 16.5.2005 :D

[AQUAN8TOR]

wow!@! Amazing tank. Makes me think about my 400w halides, & my power bill!!

I may have missed it, but what brand are the NO tubes you are using. I've considered using overdriven NO's for some propagation tanks that I don't care to light with halides, but don't like a lot of my choices. I realize that you are in Europe, Haaga, but perhaps they're available stateside.

Thanks.

wonderful tank!! I never would've gotten the scope of the size without the child standing next to the tank, even with the measurements.

[haaga]

jazzyreef: The tubes I'm using are Phillips 03 and Sylvania Coralstar as blue tubes, and Sylvania Aquastar and Osram Biolux as daylight tubes. Together they give excellent pleasing light.

Maybe you should use T5 fluorescent tubes in you propagation tank, because the live time of these overdriven tubes will be shorter than normally. If you have all the equipmet at home, then overdrive them, but if you are buing a new ones, I would get T5 fluorescents.

[adimal]

guys, just because this kid's tank looks better than yours, it doesn't mean you should try to find every little thing wrong with it to make him look bad. give him some credit, and I doubt its new, he probably cleaned it to take pictures and look at the algae on the outlet which means its probably many months old. just admit it, you are jealous.

[ofblong]

Originally posted by thrlride
I've never seen a metal halide bulb with a built in reflector...

nevermind answered my own ? :D

[astronaut]

in the second picture, what is that along the back glass? it almost looks like a jellyfish. i wish i knew how to post pictures, then I'd circle it for you guys, but it is about this far over
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>X
also, somebody said there are only 2 fish, but there are three. by the way, AWESOME tank. some people forget that SPS don't ely solely on light. they need good water quality (low nutrients, calcium, alk, etc.), high flow, and feeding as well. the photosynthesis is giving them their color and their food, but you can supplement their food as well. thats incredible. hopefully i can get sps in my 90 to color up that well. my favorite is the fourth picture. incredible corals, good job.

[AQUAN8TOR]

looks like a nassarius snail to me.

Thanks, haaga for the info on NO bulb choices. I do have several unused ballasts laying around that I can overdrive bulbs with. You should see my closet!! parts, parts, and more parts.

Thanks again for the treat of seeing how you reef it across the pond.

[MacnReef]

Nice tank! Unfortunately, your website is blocked at work, so I can't see the pictures here or on your website...but I looked last night at home.

I am so glad to see that you are haveing great results with NO bulbs. I, like so many others, have jumped on the, "more light, more light, more light" idea that has traveled through RC for the past few years.

I have seriously thought about getting out of the hobby because of my new interest, quad racing. But seeing your tank really makes me want to clean up my tank, get new filter pads and perform a water change. I am not so sure that I would change my lighting on my 54g, but I do have two workhorse 5 ballasts laying around:D .

Again, great job on the reef. Do you have any pictures of your other reefs that are lit by NO bulbs? If so, can you upload them so I can see them here at work?

Mike

[haaga]

MacnReef: there is couple of pictures of my first reef in here: Valskarin riutta (http://www.saunalahti.fi/~haaga/Vanha/index.html) , it is in finnish as you can see and some of the picturefiles are broken :)
Unfortunately I have not got any pictures in electric form of my second, a 300 l reef. Tere is couple of pictures of it in Fossa and Nilsen's Modern Coral Reef Aquarium, vol 3.

[CamBarr]

hagga post new pics of the nano

[Mchava]

So has there been any more updates on this tank. I hope Hagga can post some more pictures of this tank.

Hagga I had a question. How did you wire the 4 15watt blubs with that ballast? Thanks in advance.
Mario

[newmoon]

Originally posted by CamBarr
also im not bagging on this tank im just trying to figure out why its is successful??? the method used is not of the norm?

Good husbandry. Doesn't matter which method you choose. Without good husbandry, there's no sucessfull tank. Simple as that. What do you consider the norm? Who said your "norm" it's somebody elses "norm"?

[haaga]

Finally I managed to take some new pictures, so here they are: Tapio's Nano Reef (http://haaga.aqua-web.org/Nano/index.htm) :)

[tsquad]

cooooooooooool

Want to come to America and be my dad and set me up a tank like that? ;)

[Mchava]

wow man. Your tank is still awsome and the growth is still good. So are you able to help me on wireing the ballast. I have a 2x96 ballast and I wanted to set up a tank just like yours. Well thanks for the update realy makes all the people who doughted the set up, take it back.
Mario

[spykes]

somehow i feel im being ripped when i have 175watt Mh and 150watt VHO over my 20 gallon =/ why didnt i think of NO...

i have a question there is no zeovit in that tank right? just carbon, seachem denitrator, and phosphate remover?

[haaga]

Mchava: yes I can, here is a drawing of wireing the ballast, sorry about the quality of it. Wireing (http://haaga.aqua-web.org/Muuta/kaavio.bmp)

spykes: no zeovit in our nano, just carbon, phosphate remover and denitrate as you said. Well we do add Korallen-zucht's Amino acid concentrate, so the manufactor of it is very zeovit indeed :D

[Mchava]

WOW THEY WORK!!! Hey Thank you verry much. That worked great from me:D :) :cool: . I tought I had to buy another ballast. Thanks once again your are the man.
Mario

[ahchung]

This tank is really a great one. Very nice work!

You put the technology of SPS keeping to another level since most people do not believe SPS can be kept with sandbed, with no skimmer, and with stuffs like phosphate remover.

I have three questions:
(1) How oftern do you (plan to) change bulb?
(2) Do you harvest macro algae. If so, how often?
(3) People say that it is very difficult to keep SPS with light purple/blue/green color. Do you encounter difficulties in keeping some specific SPS in this tank?

[haaga]

ahchung: I will change them in december, after 1 year of usage. I do take some macroalgae out of the tank maybe once in a month. All corals in our nano are doing quite fine, one acro seems to look quite different in my bigger tank. It is the blue one in the left before pocilloporas Photo (http://haaga.aqua-web.org/Nano/p9250504.htm) It is very thin in our nano, others seem to look very much the same. I think the happiest sps corals in our nano are pink pocillopora, two different seriatoporas and a pink stylophora and a white acro with blue polyps in the middle.

[CamBarr]

any new pics???

[Detritivore]

yes, they are on the website.

[Quatro]

Haaga,

Awesome Nano, I'm sure your son enjoys it very much!

How about an update, have you had lots of growth and color? Still using the same filtration method?

How often do you replace the filter media? (carbon, phos remover, denitrate)

Thanks,

[glassbox-design]

amazing..
great aquascaping and coral placement too!

[CamBarr]

any updated pics hagga

[haaga]

New pictures, this time slightly bigger tank. It is mini now :)

[slojmn]

Where are the pics??

[haaga]

http://haaga.aqua-web.org/Mini/index.htm

[slojmn]

Very Nice, I see it has grown up some. Awesome colors :D

[CamBarr]

sweet update

[Wiskey]

Very cool! It really has grown up. I was just thinking about what happend with this tank, good to see it doing well.

Whiskey

[CamBarr]

Cool tank as well I like the in tank filtration
What do you do for calcium supplementation and are you still using zeo???

[vdubfiend]

wow

[yamaha racer]

those lights actually look like NO helios t-5s, i have them but the 35"

[CamBarr]

not Helios hes in Finland that are standard output!!!! "Four 18w normal output fluorescent tubes are used. Two of the tubes are blue (Arcadia Marine Blue and Osram 67) and two are daylight (Arcadia Marine White and Hagen PowerGlo) tubes. They are driven by a single 2 x 54 w electric ballast. This gives you adequate light intensity to grow even colourful sps corals. I wouldn't use metal halide lights in mini or nano reefs. With fluorescent tubes you get much even and softer illumination of the tank and less heat problems. Beside the tubes there is a fan directed to water surface to provide adequate gas exchange in the tank and to keep the temperature at about 24-28 centigrades."

[MacnReef]

Always shocking to see your results with the lights you use!

VERY VERY NICE!!!

Mike

[MacnReef]

Can you describe how you have 4 bulbs on a 2 bulb ballast? I am interested in doing something like this but maybe 5 bulbs if possible.

Thanks,
mike

[haaga]

CamBarr: I use modified Balling method for calcium supplementation, we use only CaCl2 and NaHCO3 added alternatively to the water added to compensate evaporation. Only Zeos are aminoacid concentration and Biophos 2, iron based phosphate remover.

MacnReef: Here is a drawing of wireing the ballast, sorry about the quality of it. Wireing (http://haaga.aqua-web.org/Muuta/kaavio.bmp)

[MacnReef]

Thanks!

Could 5 be run off of a single ballast?

Mike

[MacnReef]

Question about the nano.

Do you put the media in bags in the canister filter? I am thinking of switching over to this method to see how things do.

Do you use any sort of mechanical filter in the canister?

Mike

[CamBarr]

any updates???

[Reefer87]

wow marko haggas tank is run by t5... only? amazing.

[CamBarr]

yea i saw that aswell switched from mh

[boxfishpooalot]

nice tank!

Keep in mind that garf uses no flourecent for sps tanks too. Same meathodology. Also their is a window close by wich may allow in some natural sunlight. As little effect as it has it may have some.

[CamBarr]

any updates on the nano hagga?