View Full Version : Downdraft skimmer update.
I know i have posted about this skimmer before, but now i am actually using one, and it really is the best skimmer i have ever seen bar none. I'm not trying to get you all to order from Wayne, although i'm sure he wouldn't mind, but this is one anyone can make for 10 bucks.It is absolutly quiet, and is making an unbelievable amount of skimmate, without pulling out a ton of water with it. I set this up on my new system ( using my previous tank water for the set up, only added 10 gallons ) on July 6th around 9pm. Here is what it has done in only 5 days of operation.
http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/500/46077100_0508.jpg
http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/500/46077100_0509.jpg
That is a 1 gallon jug, so close to a pint of good dark skimmate in the frist 5 days, and i set mine up with the hose raised up a little high until i see how fast it fills the jug, so as not to have a really nasty stinky mess to clean up one morning.
alphaferret
07/12/2005, 09:05 AM
i have followed the other thread - i love this skimmer - one ? though- wher does the water come out after being skimmed
also are there any other diagrams of this skimmer- not sure how to put it together
might have to order from wayne
The skimmer measures 10 3/4 long by 8 3/4 wide by 8 inches tall. The bottom and front panel are cut 1 1/2 inch short to create an opening in the front bottom. (marked in black in the picture below). It has 2 holes cut in opposite corners, with 2inch couplers glued over the holes. The back side (away from the opening in the bottom), just gets a coupler. The other end has a clear 2 inch diameter tube cut 6inches long, (UNGLUED) with a cap on it. The cap has a hole drilled in it to accept a piece of 1 inch o.d. tubing fitting very snug creating a seal. You control the skim rate by raising and lowering the hose. Start out at about the half way mark and adjust it from there.
http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/500/4607746077skimmer.jpg
If your flow doesn't create enough bubbles for it, you can place a limewood airstone inside through the front opening to add more air. It is working without the airstone now, but many people have asked about using it on a small set up, so i thought i would experiment with adding an external air source, and it is really building a thick foam head up with the added air.
It makes me sick thinking of all the money i have spent on expensive skimmers that never worked, just to find out that for $10 i can build one that out performs any i have ever owned.
alphaferret
07/12/2005, 01:47 PM
i'm w/ you - i love diy- but most of those other skimmers are beyond my abilities- so simple- i gotta try- or buy one!-thanks for the info-alpha
After doing some testing with lower flow rates and added air to test for people wanting to know about a smaller tank, I would have to say it's not a good choice for a smaller system with less then 500gallon per hour pump size. With the lower flow it makes too many large bubbles that make noise and explodes the foam in the riser tube, preventing it from building up a good head of skim. With the higher flow rates it is silent and works great because it has enough turbulance to keep the bubbles small.
I am still playing with it though so i may find a way around the flow yet, but so far it's not looking good for small systems
alphaferret
07/13/2005, 12:21 PM
well thanks for the update- do you think the distance between the main tank and the sump/ skimmer has an effect on it.mine used to fall 36-40 inches now it is very minimal- w/ the sump onthe same level as the tank- my 46 stands about 112 inches higher than the sump
Distance isn't the issue here. It is the turbulance inside the skimmer box. Without a high flow rate the bubbles are able to rise to the top of the box and collect into large bubbles which disturb the foam head. With the high flow rate the bubbles all stay small and churned up, and build into a real thick foam. Also the chugging sound the large bubbles make when they hit the riser tube is unbearable. When the flow rate is high and the bubbles are kept small it is almost silent.
Junix
07/14/2005, 07:59 AM
i dont understand, how are d bubbles created? venturi? beckett? wheres the pump?
The bubbles are created in the overflow water as it falls to the sump. The only pump is the return pump that pumps the water back to the tank.
I found the fix for using this skimmer on a low flow system, and WOW this thing is now making a foam like whipped cream. I ran an airstone (limewood) and placed a powerhead inside the skimmer. This basicly reproduces the 1000 gph flowrate that a larger tank has. The powerhead is pointed at the hole where the return water enters the skimmer and breaks up the bubbles further and also churns the water real strong. I am not getting any micro bubbles in my sump at all.
alphaferret
07/17/2005, 08:35 AM
thats what you used on the 30?
thats cool- i just got a whole bunch of acyrlic the other day-1/8 & 1/4- in both white and clear- also this other stuff the guy said was even stronger than acyrlic - but i forgot the name - i'll check when i get home late-what a deal i got too -free!!whooo hoo!
i could be my next weekend project- how often would you have to change the stone?-is that the type of stone that creates the greatest finist bubbles?- thanks for tha info!=-alpha
Yes, i am using this skimmer on my 30 gallon. It is working great. The limewood airstones last quite a while, usually 6 months or so between changes. They make the finest micro bubbles of any air diffuser that i know of. The skimmer would be very easy to make, i would think about a 1 hour project, maybe less, and cost i would think around $10 to build. IMO this skimmer works as good or better then any i have seen or used. It is really designed for a large tank with a high flow rate, but with the air and powerhead added, you can use it on small tanks too. I'm not sure of the size of my powerhead i am using, as it is a very old one, and has no labels on it, but it is a large size like a maxijet 750 or so. My only worry now is that this thing may over skim my water if that is even possible? You won't catch me complaining about it working too good though after years of fighting one skimmer after another trying to get one to actually work and stay consistent.
The person who designed this skimmer, is using one on a 140 gallon tank with a real heavy fish load, and keeping sps corals that grow like weeds.
Prater
07/19/2005, 04:49 PM
I saw this the other day, it works great and Duggs tank looks awesome with the cement sides. Thanks for the invite Dugg...
Hey Steve, hope you found your way out of our maze the other day. I saw you by wallyworld after you left, but couldn't catch you and left my phone laying at home. You should of went straight instead of that first left to go through town lol. The streets around here are a twisted mess getting around all of the lakes. Good to see ya though, stop on by any time.
Prater
07/19/2005, 09:45 PM
I was looking for Diesel, I took 46 instead of 44. It was a great drive by some of the lakes.
brackishdude
07/26/2005, 12:11 PM
So basically, this is just an acrylic box with the overflow (presumably flowing turbulently in great volume from above) directed into it and exiting through a small hole in the corner, with a second outlet on top with a rigid riser tube and flexible tube drain, adjusted by pushing the drain in or out?
That is an awfully high arc on the drain tube. Seems difficult for adequate skimmate to be pushed that high using only the gravity-driven flow/microbubbles, your fantastic loooking results not withstanding.
am I missing something here?
I have seen many threads wherein folks post pics of their turbulent returns (sometimes from a full story/floor above) and wonder if there is a way to piggyback a low cost skimmer. While some posters respond, nothing more than idle suggestions are offered.
Your's (Wayne's) would seem to be an ideal solution. I found his site, but though the skimmer is mentioned (30$), there are no pics or further explanation.
Can you comment on my questions above and give a more detailed account of your experience with this skimmer?
I have a lightly brackish tank, and your comment that skimmate was produced even with all fresh water has caught my attention!
Yes, it is just an acrylic box that uses the overflow as it's turbulence and air supply. I know it looks like it's too simple to work, but it does work very good. The arc on the hose isn't really an issue, the air is resticted somewhat as it goes from the 2 inch riser, to the tube, causing a rush in the tube that acts like a vacume. the bubbles go up a ways, and then the thinner water runs back down. On about every 4th or 5th time it sucks up bubbles it will build up enough of a thick skim that it pushes through and goes in the jug as a foam log. This way it skims wet but then lets the water run back while the skim builds, then pushes it through to the jug.
Yes, it did actually work on the fresh water, but it did have rit dye in it. It took it a while. At first i didn't expect it to and iwas shocked when i came out to over a gallon of dye in the bucket i had set up just in case. It skimmed around 2 1/2 gallons out while it was fresh water. I did ad an air supply to it as the dye was pumped out, it made less and less bubbles. To get the last of it to skim out, i added some slime coat declorinator and the skimmer went nuts.
On my 287 gph system with a powerhead (maxijet 1250) and limewood air diffuser on a luft pump, i would rate it as good as anything i could buy under $300 and on a system like Wayne's with 1000 gph flow rate i would take it over anything out there. It not only skims outstanding on a big system, but it does away with a large pump in your system, that is creating heat, and costing money to buy and run. Wayne uses no powerheads or anything except one external little giant pump on his 140 gallon reef, and it runs unbelievable. It is loaded with sps, has probably 12 to 15 assorted fish and sits in full sunlight with 2 400 watt halides running 12 on 12 off, and he does a 50% waterchange once every 6 months. He gets the normal algae on the glass and lots of coraline. This thing is a virtual montipora digitata farm lol.
captbunzo
07/27/2005, 11:14 AM
I am going to try to add something like this to my sump. It's only 10 gallons and I have very little room in the overflow chamber. However, I think I should be able to get something basic setup.
I will post details and results, etc, as I figure things out. Any suggestions?
I really like the idea of this funnel in the collection cup. Any suggestions on how I might incorporate it into this plan? Or if it is even necessary.
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b298/captbunzo/top-flash.jpg
My thought is that it might keep the skimmer output foam more dry and result in less water loss. Of course, maybe the loss doesn't matter and I should just replace it during weekly/biweekly water changes.
Thoughts?
captbunzo
07/27/2005, 02:03 PM
Ok. So I did some measuring and some pondering. And here is what I have so far. Please provide any possible input on these plans...
My downdraft / gravity-fed skimmer is going to fit inside the incoming water compartment of my sump. That section is sized as follows.
Front to Back = 9.5"
Width = 3"
Height = 10.25"
And the last important dimension is that there are 5.5" from the front side of the drain pipe to the front edge of the return compartment. That space will be occupied with the foam riser tube, which will be made out of a 2" piece of clear plastic pipe. The drain pipe can come forward, if needed.
So, the box itself will be just big enough for the 2" pvc foam riser tube in the front, and the 1" drain tube in the back, plus a little clearance at the front and the back. And then in the back, I will have the open section at the bottom for water to flow into the sump.
Any thoughts?
captbunzo
07/27/2005, 02:04 PM
Oh yeah. I also need to find some clear pipe and appropriate solvents to glue it together. Any suggestions? So far all I have found online is the pipe in 10" sections for $50 or so, which is much more then I need.
Sounds like a good design to me. As for the tubing, i'm not sure where to get the clear rigid tubing at. I will ask wayne where he gets his at. Not real sure about the funnel. that's a pretty short riser, but it may work. I wouldn't do any glueing until i got it working though, so if you need to redesign it you can. Wayne had a good idea for low flow systems to boost the bubbles and flow. He said try placing a pump in the sump and plumb it in to the drain plumbing with a Y connector. That way you get high flow in the skimmer without flowing it all through the tank. On a small setup like this one, i would think a good size powerhead would do the trick.
One thing about this design as opposed to a normal skimmer design, is that all of the tank water goes through it every time it passes through the sump, instead of a pump sitting in the sump picking up random water.
I found 1 cheap way to get 2" clear tube. It's a gravel cleaner 22" X 2" tube on it.
http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=12752&N=2004+113165
captbunzo
07/28/2005, 12:02 AM
First, here is another option someone recommended to me in another thread somewhere on reefcentral...
http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=3902&N=2004+113159
And at my icky little LFS, I found a 8" long x 1.5" diameter siphon kit. That, paired with some PVC will probably work.
A couple of questions.
First of all, you commented about the difference between this and a regular skimmer....all tank drain water...etc. Is there any problem with all tank drain water passing through the skimmer? Sounds more efficient, to me.
Secondly, I have a question concerning the main chamber design a little. I have been thinking, because of the fit of things, that I should probably make the main chamber of the skimmer take up only the top 2/3 of the input chamber in the sump. Otherwise, the opening to allow the water to flow into the sump would have to be on the same side as the injection pipe, and that would seem to defeat the purpose.
That make any sense? That was a horrible explanation.
Anyhow, thanks for the input. I am going to build it this weekend when a geek friend of mine comes to visit.
Okireef
07/28/2005, 12:47 PM
I made one using the above dimension and after 3 days it was skimming .....not very well but it was skimming. Now, I have a mag 7 pushing up almost 6 feet so I am not sure of the actual flow rate but It's enough that I wouldn't want to put a bigger pump on. I would have too much flow in the tank if I went any bigger. The skimmer was allowing the bubbles to combine, and as the post states the bigger bubbles going into the stand pipe are very loud. I added a pump and an air stone to add to the turbulence and it did better but still not what I need. So, I cut the width dimension down to 3 inches. Now there is a much smaller area for the bubbles to get big in and a tighter area for more turbulence. Over night it put out about 10x what the bigger one did in three days. The skimmate was wet and green so I moved the tube up and it is still pumping out foam. This is a really neat design and I can see how a tank with 1000gph flow would really make this thing go.
OH!!! My temp has dropped about 2 degrees since removing my other skimmer. I’ll let you know if things change
Great to hear !!!! Thanks for letting me know how it worked out for you. Mine seems to be getting better as time passes. I have been thinking of building me another one that is smaller also. I guess you just made up my mind :). That is the same temperature drop that i saw also 2*. Feels good replacing 3 to 400 dollars worth of equipment with $10 doesn't it? lol
That was what i was meaning about all of the drain water having to pass through the skimmer, much more efficient i would think.
The chambr idea sounds fine to me. Just remember that the top panel of the skimmer needs to be 1/2 to 1 inch below the water surface. Actually Wayne keeps his set at level with the surface, but he has such tremendous flow that his box would stay filled if it was 2 inches out of the water.
If anyone has questions tomorrow, be patient lol, i am spending the day at sea world with the wife and my step grandson, while his mom has the new baby. I will most likely be tied up pretty good this weekend :) :) :). July 29th will never be the same again lol, Wife and 2 grandkids all having thier birthday on the same day, oh my god, that is going to make for a busy day every year from now on lol.
likeavillain
07/28/2005, 10:29 PM
I don't understand how you can get skimmate in freshwater. the necessary smaller bubbles don't form in freshwater b/c there isn't enought surface tension?
likeavillain
07/28/2005, 10:29 PM
sorry dp
I really don't think or claim that it will skim fresh water without some help, but with the dye in it, it skimmed and with the slimecoat declorinator added to it, it skimmed very well. If it were just regular fresh water, i don't think any skimmer will skim it. I was shocked to see it actually had skimmed it myself. Here is a picture of it working with fresh water, with only the dye in it, and a limewood air diffuser.
http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/500/46077100_0431.jpg
bkiba
07/29/2005, 08:29 PM
how do the down draft skimmers work? Any good links - thanks
They work totally off of the overflow current, creating turbulance and air, with no added pumps or air on a large high flow system. On a smaller system with less flow, you add a powerhead and airstone, to help it produce the same effect. Basicly using gravity as a pump.
bkiba
07/30/2005, 04:23 PM
so it is water rushing (from the return or some other gravity feed) into a large box where it whooshs around and makes foam?
thats it?
and this works :D ?
Yes , that's exactly what it is, and yes it works good.
Gwalker
07/30/2005, 05:23 PM
Imagine the foam I could get from my two 3" return lines on my main salt system. It runs about 10,000 to 12,000gph through those lines! I think maybe the design would have to be upgraded a little bit, size wise!
Gary
http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/500/84943P7150016.JPG
That thing would scrub the water crystal clear. I bet you could build one that would skim 10x what the one in your pick does, because it would skim the entire system on every pass instead of randomly like a pump does. Finding 3" clear tubing for the riser might be tough though. With that much flow, you may be able to build it with 2 or 3 risers. Just think of the electricity you would save, and the temp difference it would make.
Gwalker
07/30/2005, 06:50 PM
Yea, but the coolness and electricity would be minimal in respect to the 2hp, 9amp main pump and the 1hp, 3amp bio-pump. In a 2000 gallon system the three sedra 9000's don't add up to much affect on things compared to that.
Gary
You could use a 30 gallon cube, with an acrylic top. Dual 3" inputs with a 4" riser and a 1 to 1 1/2" hose going to the collection bucket. Just notch out about 2" of the bottom of one side for the exit water. You would be producing fish poop coolwhip lol.
DoobieNaq
08/01/2005, 05:05 AM
So when you set up the powerhead it is actually pushing water into the exit hole which is cut into the bottom of the skimmer. Does this make the waterflow and powerhead work against each other?
Also what size and brand airpump do you use?
BTW, this looks like a pretty good first skimmers for a NewB like me. However, I am thinking of incorporating it into my sump/refugium (1st chamber) - Good idea?
Yes i have a maxijet 1250 powerhead sitting in the exit hole facing into the skimmer. It just causes turbulance and also give the water more contact time.
I am using a luft airpump, and a limewood air diffuser. I think building it into the sump is a good idea myself. I know mine is working real good, and i know for sure that i can find better uses for the 2 to 400 dollars that normally would be spent on a skimmer.
captbunzo
08/01/2005, 01:44 PM
If you do build one of these into your sump, I would recommend adding a "bypass" that would allow you to optionally drain into either the downdraft skimmer, or drain directly into the sump. That would give you the ability to "turn off the skimmer" without having to completely stop water running through the sump/refugium.
I have just completed mine, which seems to be working great so far. I will post some pictures soon. :)
(NOTE: I didn't add the bypass piping as I just don't have enough room under my tank. I did some silly things with my stand that make this difficult. Plus, it's only a 29G tank...)
If yours is working great already, it is going to be amazing in a few days. Mine seems to take about 1 to 2 days before it really starts getting a super thick foam going. It works good at first and then it really turns it on after it gets primed up. I also lose very little water volume with this skimmer, it's all good dirty thick foam when it hits the bucket. The water is heavier, and seems to run back to the riser and leave the gunk in the foam to be sucked out of the hose.
alphaferret
08/01/2005, 04:12 PM
good lookin dugg-bump
captbunzo
08/01/2005, 04:36 PM
Please see this thread I started about the downdraft skimmer I just put into my sump...
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=641513
DoobieNaq
08/02/2005, 04:30 AM
Would it be alright to use just a standard 2" PVC pipe for the riser? I know I would not be able to see inside but by playing with the hose inserted through the top I should be able to get optimal performance, eventually.
BTW, DIY products are going to save me about $500 and the time it would take to save that much, thanks to this forum.
captbunzo
08/02/2005, 09:00 AM
You will REALLY REALLY regret going with a non-transparant riser for the foam riser. You really need to see what's going on with the foam. And I would really recommend you put a funnel on the bottom of the tube, like I did. I think it helps alot with foam ejection.
glenns
08/02/2005, 01:02 PM
This is an intriging idea. I've considered adding another skimmer to my 75 reef tank. I probably only have 300 -350gph coming through my sump/fuge. I have an old two port air pump. If I added two lime stone airstones to this skimmer, will this resolve the bubble issue due to the slower flow?
Yes it will, along with reducing the box size for the low flow rate, like captbunzo did. You will not end up with 2 skimmers running, you will end up with the one you have now for sale, and a 2* cooler tank temp.
glenns
08/02/2005, 03:56 PM
My 20L sump's input chamber is about the same size as his. Glad to hear the reduced box size helps with the reduced flow issue. As for if I'll be selling my Remora, we'll see.
Does Wayne make these all one size or custom sizes? If it is one size, I'll have to find a clear box that will fit. I lack the tools to make my own.
captbunzo
08/02/2005, 04:06 PM
Glenns - sent pm...
Glenns, i talked to Wayne today, and he said he is fixing to be making some more skimmers, and will custom build the size you need. He said the price will be the same though as most of the cost is in the pvc and clear riser.
speakeraddict
08/03/2005, 09:33 PM
dugg,
Silly question:
I suck at acrylic work. I am good at drilling glass. I plan on making it out of glass and just leaving one side 1-1/2" short from the bottom. Do you think this would be ok?
Also, since you judge the skimmate by the output hose, couldn't you just use 2" PVC for the riser?
I will have about 1000 gph running through it.
Another question: How much is shipping to 35811 if I decide to buy one?
Thanks,
speakeraddict
Using glass and the 1 1/2 inch gap would be fine.
The pvc riser would make it where you wouldn't be able to see what was going on, and where to set the hose to. You would only know by the actual output, so ajusting could be tricky.
1000gph is exactly what it was originally designed to flow, so you will get the full bennefit of this skimmer.
I have no idea about shipping as i am not the one that makes or sells them. You can ask wayne though by email. Wayne@WaynesPets.com
or phone. 352-357-3474
oosurfin
08/04/2005, 12:50 AM
i just slapped one of these together its ugly cuz i dont do diy. im very curious as to if it will work because i had to make it slightly smaller because of water levels and the size of the area where my water drains to. its aprox 12x6x6 with the 1 1/2in gap. im going to be pushing ~1200gph though it. im waiting for the silicone to dry since i couldnt get ahold of any acrylic weldon. as soon as it is ready ill let you know if it actually worked
oosurfin
08/04/2005, 12:51 AM
oh also i got 1.5in clear tube at a local hard ware store for 3 bucks. its a plastic tube used to protect floresent office bulbs.
captbunzo
08/04/2005, 07:49 AM
Here's an awful tip. I couldn't get a hold of Weld-On, so I used clear PVC cleaner. The main component of Weld-On and the clear PVC cleaner is Methyl Ethyl Ketone, in both.
It worked fine for me since mine sits directly in my sump. Probably not ok for building anything meant to be watertight.
mdiddy7s
08/04/2005, 08:25 AM
I had Wayne ship 2 to me and he only charged me approx $8 for it. That is to 73069.
Mike D
glenns
08/04/2005, 06:59 PM
Dugg, how loud is this skimmer? When I first setup my sump, it took a few weeks for me to prevent gurgling in the input chamber. I had to move the input line to about 2" from the bottom.
Ok, i asked Wayne about the clear tube, he said he gets his at equatic eco systems, which is a pond store, so you might check out local koi pond stores. He said it is clear PVC. He buys it in 8 ft sections though, not sure about small pieces for a single unit.
oosurfin- Ugly don't matter when you are making something to skim poop lol.
glenns - Mine is really quiet. When i first set it up i did have a gurgle in mine too. The gurgle was caused by the low flow rate. With a low flow the bubbles collect and make big bubbles that make noise when they hit the riser. The powerhead and airstone fixed it. If you have it running right it shouldn't make noise. You should have to be right over it pretty close to hear it at all. I can barely hear the water coming down the pipe and nothing at all from the skimmer.
oosurfin
08/04/2005, 10:59 PM
with mine i actually put a 90 elbow inside the box and siliconed a pipe through it so i could attach an elbow 90 or 45. the only thing im really worried about with this is that the silicone wont hold because of the force of the water. then i will have tear it appart and mail order some weldon and rebuild it .
oosurfin , You don't need that elbow inside, with 1200gph it will work great without it. Wayne runs one on his 140gal. store display tank with 1000 gph and it produces plenty of flow and micro bubbles to run it silently. If you put the elbow on it facing toward the exit, You will probably get a bunch of bubbles in the sump.
mdiddy7s
08/05/2005, 10:51 AM
I got the skimmers in today. Dugg, how does the little water pump and airstorne system work with the skimmer? I am running the skimmer on a 75 gal tank with two 1" drains that I will PVC together in to a 2" drain down to the skimmer. I will be using a Mag 12 to run the system. Will I need to add the pump and airstone?
Thanks,
Mike D
With a mag 12, you might get away with not having to add anything. If you need anything extra, i would try just an air diffuser (limewood). If that's still not quite enough, place a powerhead inside the skimmer box. A maxijet 1250 fits right in the bottom slot. I have mine pointed at the opening where the water enters the skimmer. It helps to break the bubbles up super fine, and causes lots of extra turbulence to help scrub the water.
Also make the 2" part of the drain as long of a straight drop as you can. It helps it to pick up more air.
billpa
08/17/2005, 01:22 PM
nice thread!
Would love to see some photos of it skimming a big tank. I'd love to ditch my electric hogging beckett skimmer and just use good ole physics to skim my 180g.
billpa
This is a pic of it running on a 140 gallon sps tank with 1000gph flow rate, at Wayne's store. Large tanks is what this skimmer is designed for. They cost just a few bucks and take maybe 30 minutes to build, or Wayne sells them for $30.
http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/500/46077skimmer_in_sump.jpg
causeofhim
08/22/2005, 11:53 AM
Do you think this would work using a 10 gal aquarium(20x10x12'') instead of the acrylic box? I could drill a hole in the bottom corner. I would weldon acrylic to the top. It would be a bit larger, do you think this would be a problem?
causeofhim
08/22/2005, 11:55 AM
Actually a 5.5 gal would be closer to the size (16x8x10'').
captbunzo
08/22/2005, 12:40 PM
I think a 5.5G aquarium would be great. Keep in mind, however, that you'll want to make it somewhat easy to "open up" and "take apart" so that you can clean it, make adjustments, etc.
I think a 5.5 would work fine if you have a large high flow system, but for the smaller low flow tanks, it would be way to big. You would need atleast 1000gph flow for that size of a box.
causeofhim
08/22/2005, 02:18 PM
Originally posted by captbunzo
I think a 5.5G aquarium would be great. Keep in mind, however, that you'll want to make it somewhat easy to "open up" and "take apart" so that you can clean it, make adjustments, etc.
How do the acrylic boxes open up? I didn't think they did.
Mine doesn't open up. The foam riser tube is removable for cleaning. The riser is the only thing that needs cleaning i think. How big of a system do you have and flow rate?
captbunzo
08/22/2005, 03:50 PM
Sorry, let me explain better. :)
Because of the DIY/experimentation involved in this, it might/probably will require some fiddling, tweaking, etc, to get right. I worked very hard when building mine to make sure that I could easily take it out of the sump, clean it, etc. That has proved valuable with all of the tweaking that I HAVE had to do.
Btw. I am designing a new skimmer for my tank right now. After my experiences with model #1, and after reading a gazillion posts in Anthony Calfo's expert forum, I have learned some things that should result in some improvements. At least, that's the hope.
I will post more info as I continue with the project, etc.
causeofhim
08/22/2005, 06:19 PM
I am setting up a 125gal (sps) with a 55 gal sump. My flow through the sump will be 750gph with an Iwaki 40RLT. In my tank I will have 6000gph on two closed loops.
I am also going to have my ER 8-2 in the sump. I would like to have this skimmer in as a pre-skimmer.
If you set up a skimmer like this on your system, using a 5.5 gallon tank, it will not be a pre skimmer, it will be your primary skimmer. On a system with high flow, these things really skim the muck out.
Paul, i reduced the size of my output to about a 1 1/2 inch hole, and my skimmer is working very consistant now. It has pulled abouy 3/4 cup every day now for 4 days straight. I didn't rebuild one with a ball valve yet, as i wanted to test the theory, but i glued a piece of plexi over the original hole and cut it out a little at a time until i got the foam head level right. The skim has also darkened up some due to the extended contact time.
captbunzo
08/22/2005, 08:29 PM
dugg - Very cool stuff. I will have to consider this as I move forward. The biggest change I am going to make is to probably build a more traditional collection cup on top. If I get really creative at the same time, I might build two riser tube assemblies - one with a traditional collection cup, and one with our inverted funnel idea.
I also think I might need a better air pump. Of course, I am considering lots of things, including trying to dream up some way to incorporate a venturi/needle valve. That's not terribly likely, however, due to the small amount of space I have to work with. I guess I am much more likely to end up with a couple of limewood airstones on a better quality air pump.
What was that air pump brand that you recommended?
causeofhim - First, I understand and like your handle. At least, I think I do. Secondly, I think you are right on with your plans to put only 750 GPH through the sump and the rest through the closed loop. I would recommend two things that I am dying to try.
First, build a Calfo Overflow (http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=619976) (otherwise known as a Internal Horizontal Overflow). You'll get a lot better quality of water to be skimmed with such a beast.
Second, build a Closed Loop Return Manifold (http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=520145) to return water to the tank from the closed loop. Read up here...
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/sept2003/short.htm
Anyways, good luck.
I use a luft pump. I have had mine for over 15 years, and it is still going strong. It's a little noisy these days, but still pumping air. Nothing makes air like a luft pump that i have ever found.
Restricting the exit water is an idea from anthony's thread that i posted and it really made a huge difference.
http://www.marineandreef.com/products/Luft_Pump.gif
This is the one i use, they do have bigger ones, but this one is plenty big enough.
causeofhim
08/22/2005, 08:47 PM
captbunzo - Yep, it means what you think. I would love to use a Calfo Overflow but my tank is already reef ready and the way i have it set-up (3 viewable sides) I cannot change that.
My plan is to use a closed loop manifold with one pump and 4 eductors on the other pump.
captbunzo
08/22/2005, 08:50 PM
Originally posted by dugg
I use a luft pump. I have had mine for over 15 years, and it is still going strong. It's a little noisy these days, but still pumping air. Nothing makes air like a luft pump that i have ever found.
Restricting the exit water is an idea from anthony's thread that i posted and it really made a huge difference.
http://www.marineandreef.com/products/Luft_Pump.gif
I will look into getting one of those Luft's sometime soon.
And thanks again for posting the link to Anthony's skimmer thread. I read the whole thing... :)
mikeatjac
09/23/2005, 09:41 AM
Dugg,
I have one of those $300 dollars skimmers but I would love to try this. Is it still working for you?
mdiddy7s
09/23/2005, 11:58 AM
I have to say that unless you have an automatic top-off system, this system is a little too difficult to use. It pulls out a lot more water than any skimmer s I have ever used. Dugg, maybe you have some suggestions for me concerning the set up of this system. The level of the water is crucial to the skimming of the water. The problem is that the skimmer pulls out too much water and then the water level is not high enough for the skimmer to be effective. Please if you can tell me how to better use these skimmers (I have two) then I will be happy to try. Otherwise, I will go back to the mechanical skimmers that do more skimmate and less water.
Mike D
mdiddy7s, yes you do need to be either using an auto top off, or a baffled sump area to maintain the water level, but i would say you have yours set way to wet if it's affecting your water levels. I might be able to offer some tips on what you have set up wrong if you post a few pics. My water level fluctuates about 1 inch day to day, but the one inch doesn't effect the skimmer production, it just skims a little drier if the level gets too low.
mikeatjac, yes mine is still pumping away. It has been very consistant at just a little over 1 cup per day. This jug is 1 gallon, and was emptied when i set this final version up.
I just realized the thread we are on lol. This thread kind of got side tracked to another thread due to making this thing work on a low flow system.
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=641513
I have totally re worked this skimmer, and it has evolved into a skimmate monster using this design crossed with the plumbing of a Euro reef.
This is about 9 or 10 days worth of production.
http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a151/dugg/100_0833.jpg
reefrubble
09/27/2005, 07:11 PM
dugg,I have a 225 gal tank,and I live in a stilt house,with my sump down stairs. I have two 2" internal over flows,connected to a 4" line. this runs under the floor ,and down to the sump. My return pump is a sequence hammer head . I get so much foam in the 4" line going to the sump I have to use a filter sock. I had been thinking about a skimmer like this for some time now,to use all this foam. Other people told me that this type of skimmer ,could not handle the flow.
captbunzo
09/27/2005, 08:05 PM
You can always T off the overflow line and only provide SOME of the flow to the skimmer.
Too much flow - what a problem! :)
reefrubble
09/27/2005, 08:16 PM
Thanks Paul, that makes a lot of sense.
I would build the skimmer for that system using a 30 gallon cube, make the riser and intake 4 inch instead of 2. I bet it would make pure mud. I would build the skimmer to suit the flow instead of bypassing some of the overflow water. This way eveything gets skimmed on every pass. You might as well put the existing foam and flow you have to full use.
captbunzo
09/27/2005, 10:14 PM
Oh yeah, baby!
reefrubble
09/27/2005, 10:16 PM
dugg,that makes even better sense. Thanks. I have a Euro Reef CS 8-2,and I added a second 5,000 pump as a recirculator. It skims like crazy,but I need more for my system. Do you think this skimmer will do a better job?
bryang6286
09/27/2005, 11:25 PM
i know this skimmer seems like such a good deal but you still have to buy a 110$ overflow box and a 50$ return pump for it to work, correct? im looking for a 1100+ skimmer system and am thinking about using an old salt container with a siphon coming out the top, and a funnel at the very top. i have another question, dont the bubbles need some room to build up before they hit the funnel and into the smaller tube (leading to a collection cup) or a collection cup?
captbunzo
09/28/2005, 08:46 AM
Actually, after experience with this, I would recommend building a more traditional style collection cup. The funnel works great, but is less tunable, IMO... :)
mdiddy7s
09/28/2005, 12:28 PM
I have about 1000 gals of water flowing through it (maybe a little more). I have the hose pulled amost all of the way out of the skimmer tube. I have the hose arched kind of steeply to increase the fight against gravity. I get 2 1/2 gals every other day, mostly water. Fortunately for me, I have a commercial size filtration system that makes 7gals p/min.
Mike D
reefrubble, I'm not sure how big a cs 8-2 is, but i doubt this will do much better. It will probably do just as good. If you are looking at building the 30 cube size, then yes i think it will out skim anything you can buy.
bryang, I'm not sure what you are talking about ($110 overflow box? I built my overflow for $9 with pre cut glass from a local glass shop. As for the return pump, if you are running a sump, you already have a return pump. If you don't, you should. The top of the main skimmer body should be right at the water level, or about 1 inch below. This gives the bubbles pressure to keep them small until they reach the riser.
mdiddy, it sound like to me that your exit hole is causing too much back pressure and causing the actual water to enter the riser. The riser should be bubbles only with the high flow rate you have. A picture would do wonders for helping you figure this out.
bryang6286
09/28/2005, 03:29 PM
thanks for you help, one question if the inverted funnel is right above the waterflow then you really dont have a riser right? so wouldnt you want the inverted funnel at the top?
captbunzo
09/28/2005, 03:34 PM
You DO need the riser tube. The further the foam climbs up that tube, the nastier your skimmate will be. Also, you REALLY want to be able to adjust that up and down to control the density of the skimmate you are getting.
Down more = more watery skimmate. Up more = thicker skimmate.
Also, make sure the riser tube assembly is removable. You really should clean it once a week or so. I get lazy with mine and then realize my skimmer isn't performing as well. Then I clean it and am once again amazed.
bryang6286
09/28/2005, 03:54 PM
so then the inverted funnel should be at the top of the riser?
The inverted funnel needs to be adjustable from the top of the riser to the bottom, to control wet to dry skimming.
bryang6286
09/28/2005, 07:31 PM
sorry to have soo many questions, im not trying to be a pain and am somewhat of a rookie when it comes to this, but dont you want dry skimming only because that is the dense good stuff?
mdiddy7s
09/28/2005, 07:43 PM
Back pressure could be the reason. I have the skimmer exit near the wall of the sump area to prevent the bubbles from the skimmer getting to the return pump. This probably does not allow enough water to flow out and causes pressure, pushing the water up the funnel tube. I'll try to adjust it and let you know how it goes. If this fixes it i will be so appreciative.
thanks,
Mike D
You can get arguments either way on this subject. Both types of skimming pull out different types of debis from the water. I personally keep mine to a coffee color, and not thick just coffee brown soupy water. If i have an emergency i will skim wet for a few days. or if i am dosing or doing extra feeding of my coral, i skim it dry to keep from pulling too much out. It's kind of a personal preferrence i guess. The important thing is that you get all you can out.
bryang6286
09/28/2005, 08:27 PM
do you know where i could get stretch hose, the kind that can screw onto other pvc type things at the end. My wet/dry came with one and i was wondering where i could get another. If you arent too sure could tell me where and what type of tubing I can get that will withstand 1200 gph
Swimming pool supply store. They will have the hose you need or can order it.
mdiddy, to stop the bubbles i use a wall of rock rubble that stands about 2 inches out of the water. I don't get any bubbles past that point.
bryang6286
09/29/2005, 10:17 AM
my setup is basically a 200g of salt container (not really 200g but for making that much water) and i have a gravel cleaning siphon things out the end. the only way i am going to be able to adjust it is through where in the siphon the inverted funnel is, so if i want a smaller siphon i put it farther down. my question is where should my water level be? should it be right where the salt container and siphon meet, an inch up into the siphon, or a little below?
I'm not getting the picture here, but the water level should come up to level with the top of the main skimmer box or bucket. Then you should have 3 to 9 inches of riser tube for the bubbles to rise up in and collect the skimmate.
bryang6286
10/03/2005, 09:03 PM
makes sense, i just reread my post and i realized that i made practically no sense, but what you said completely answered it. thanks. ill post when i get it set up. im still working on a overflow box. right now i have a powerfilter that i cut a hole in the bottom similar to an overflow box. I am just not sure what i am going to use to make sure my utubes get only surface water.
captbunzo
10/04/2005, 08:46 AM
A second, internal overflow box. Water flow into that box and then the power filter sucks it up and over.
bryang6286
10/06/2005, 08:58 AM
im gonna use u-tubes with the powerfilter because the power filter doesnt pump out enough water. where can i find an internal overflow box? I have another overflow box and was thinking that the internal boxes of the two might have to be the exact same height or one of the sumps/skimmer would overflow. Im not to sure.
captbunzo
10/06/2005, 11:55 AM
You might find one of those boxes that fish stores hang on the outside of a tank to put fish in when they are selling. That could probably be modified pretty easily to fit inside of the tank, opposite of the power filter.
Big question - how the heck do you plan on balancing the flow rate of your power filter and sump return pump? That will be near impossible.
That's why people have to use siphons.
bryang6286
10/07/2005, 10:00 AM
well what you do is you make the overflow's outlet/exhaust tube raised to either the water level (if you do not have an internal box in your tank) or some level inside your internal box . this way when the water gets lower the siphon starts sucking out less water because the water levels are the same inside the overflow box and where it is sucking the water out from i.e. the tank or the internal teethed box. that probably doesnt make much sense but i gotta go. maybe ill explain it later
bryang6286
10/08/2005, 10:47 PM
i just built one but the bubbles are comnig up to big. any suggestions?
Spikehs
10/11/2005, 05:00 PM
could someone post a diagram of what the overflow should look like? I got a description from Wayne on how to do it, but still can't quite visualize it. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks.
This is pictures of Waynes overflow and plumbing.
http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/500/46077overflow.jpg
http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/500/46077skimmer_in_sump.jpg
bryang6286, kind of hard to say without seeing what you have, but you may need to add an airstone, if you don't have much flow going into it.
Spikehs, there is a piece of egg crate that lays over the top of that silicone, with a plastic bag covering the front 2/3 of it.
Spikehs
10/11/2005, 08:27 PM
Originally posted by dugg
Spikehs, there is a piece of egg crate that lays over the top of that silicone, with a plastic bag covering the front 2/3 of it.
sorry for being stupid, but i just can't see whats goin on in the pictures.... anyone handy with the diagrams?? thanks.
captbunzo
10/12/2005, 08:54 AM
Good god - I woke up this morning and my skimmer collection jar was mostly full of thin skimmate. So I raised the funnel up a bit.... All the way to the top and the foam is still rising strong.
Usually it only gets an inch or two up the tube. Wowzers... :)
jacmyoung
10/12/2005, 11:57 AM
For a smaller tank or low flow system, if you have to add an airstone to aid the skimming, why not just buy a Lee's airstone-driven counter current skimmer, they are not expensive at all.
barryhc
10/12/2005, 01:52 PM
dugg, I've read both this, and captbungo's thread, with most of the related links today, and I'm exceedingly impressed!
I've been toying with this same idea for about a month now, while designing my display-sump-refugium. I was about to "chuck" the idea for lack of R&D time when I found these threads today, and "impressed" is quite the "under-statement".
For reasons that I won't bother you with, the available space I have for the skimmer "housing" is restricted to about 4" x 7or8".
I have 450 gph draining right now thru a 1" tube, and a huge volume of 1/16" to 3/16" bubbles. I have about 16" of vertical "wet height" available here, and I'm still "on paper" with this, so I can fudge around, a "little bit", not much.
The above available "wet space" comes to about 1 3/4 gal. , and I would have to put any power head inside the housing, from the bottom.
You thoughts here? Do I have a chance to make this work in such a confined space?
Thanks for all the great work! > barryhc :)
captbunzo
10/12/2005, 02:20 PM
Barryhc:
I think that your space will do just fine for the construction of a skimmer. I think that the recirculation is a good idea, i.e. the powerhead. And an added airstone is a good idea as well. However, there are some other things that you can think about to help out.
Ok. First you have to find a way to create air bubbles. The air from the downdraft of your overflow will always help. However, in my experience, it will not be enough. You can add more via compinations of a venturi, a needle wheel, and/or a air stone. Basically, we are looking for lots of litle tiny air bubbles.
And Second you need a way to get skimmate out of the skimmer. As you surf around our threads, you can see the inverted funnel that works pretty decently. However, my preferred choice would be to build a more traditional skimmer cup.
Lastly, it would be great to have a way to control the pressure in the skimmer. The best way to accomplish that is to make the skimmer body enclosed and put a ball/gate valve on the skimmer output. That will allow you to adjust the pressure in the skimmer and control the skimmate output a little more.
BIG IMPORTANT HINT
Go find the expert forum called "All Things Salty", moderated by Anthony Calfo. Then find in the sticky threads at the top the thread about skimmer performance.
Then read it. All 30 pages or whatever. It's well worth the read...
barryhc
10/12/2005, 02:49 PM
Thanks Paul, actually I "skimmed" all of it ( pun intended ), and actually read over 20 pages of it carefully, along with about another 40 pages of "links" just today. ( I've been at it for about 6 1/2 hrs. now ) I will review all of it again, before I commit to plastic, no doubt.
On the tiny bubbles issue, I was wondering if it makes any sense to put a "second path" near the bottom of the drain tube, just above the housing fitting, with a needle wheel impeller in the pump, just to chop up the existing air water mixture, right before it gets to the skimmer housing. This would be out from the drain, thru the pump, and back into the drain, and using "drain air" only. Therefore it could not ever leak.
I only have about a 3 ft. drop, so it might eat up too much "head" in my case, but it could be an interesting alternative for systems with more "headroom".
I agree on the collection cup design, and since your still "hot on that issue", I think I'll just sit back and follow on that one.
On controling skimmer pressure, we have to screen the intake carefully I assume, and also monitor carefully as well that we don't adjust so close that something awful happens when were gone for three days. Am I understanding this correctly.
Thanks so much, I just love this thread! > barryhc :)
captbunzo
10/12/2005, 03:22 PM
First, concerning the collection cup, I am not going to be able to get to that for probably a month or two. So, errr, not so hot at the moment... ;)
Second, concerning "screening" the intake carefully, I am not sure what you mean. If you are talking about some sort of prefilter, then indeed you don't want to do that. You want all that nastiness to go straight into the skimmer.
As for the bit about monitoring carefully, I think you are correct in that you'd want to be careful to avoid any problems.
barryhc
10/12/2005, 03:39 PM
captbunzo, I'm thinking primarily in terms of the "back pressure" created, by partially closing off the "final-drain-path", causing the flowrate thru the drain tube to become less than that of the "return".
Does that make any better sense?
Any comment on recirculating the "drain flow" just above the entry to the "skimmer body"?
Thanks again > barryhc
:)
captbunzo
10/12/2005, 03:46 PM
I think recirculating is a reasonable possibility. I'd just take a look at other skimmer designs out there and take what you can from that...
overanalyzer
10/12/2005, 06:33 PM
I have been following these threads and would like to see a simple design if possible.... as my name suggests I tend to over do and from what I've seen and read this seems pretty easy - too easy.... so can someone toss up a quick design? Please please please!!!
Thanks All!
bryang6286
10/12/2005, 10:14 PM
i cant really sketch you a design but i could probably explain it all in a few sentences.
-basically their is an overflow of any sort
-the overflow falls directly into the skimmer house
(you know when you pour water into something their are bubbles, for example if you take a bath the newly poured water will create some bubbles under water and will pop at surface level)
-from here on it is just like any other skimmer, the bubbles rise and collect above water level and so on
hints
-the main housing of the skimmer should be about an inch below water level.
-a funnel in the bubble collection chamber will help push the bubbles upwards
-1000gph is needed if you want to run this without additional air added, i.e. airstones. anything lower will not produce sufficient bubbles.
hope that cleared it up somewhat
Great explanation bryang6286. That sums it up completely, thanks for saving me about 3 times that much typing stuttering around lol.
Spikehs
10/13/2005, 12:17 PM
Originally posted by bryang6286
i cant really sketch you a design but i could probably explain it all in a few sentences.
-basically their is an overflow of any sort
-the overflow falls directly into the skimmer house
(you know when you pour water into something their are bubbles, for example if you take a bath the newly poured water will create some bubbles under water and will pop at surface level)
-from here on it is just like any other skimmer, the bubbles rise and collect above water level and so on
hints
-the main housing of the skimmer should be about an inch below water level.
-a funnel in the bubble collection chamber will help push the bubbles upwards
-1000gph is needed if you want to run this without additional air added, i.e. airstones. anything lower will not produce sufficient bubbles.
hope that cleared it up somewhat
great! I think i got it now! thanks.
here are a few pics for you incase you missed them in the post. The first is the original design for high flow systems (1000gph +). The second is my final design for my low flow system (287gph). The final design is a recirc design simular to the euro reef skimmer in the plumbing design. The low flow needs the recirc to control the head pressure, and produce enough bubbles.
http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/500/4607746077skimmer.jpg
http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/500/46077100_0795.jpg
http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/500/46077100_0790.jpg
There are quite a few picyures in my gallery of the various designs along the way.
bryang6286
10/14/2005, 12:21 PM
hey dugg, i noticed that you are from florida and was wondering if you had any connection to wayne. i actually just purchased one of his skimmers since they are only 30$. I will post results as soon as I can
Other than supporting him through my purchases, there is no connection. His store is less than a mile from my house, so i bother him frequently lol. When i originally posted this thread, i had no intention of anyone buying from Wayne. I just saw his skimmer, and saw how well it worked, and how cheap and simple it would be to make, so i thought i would pass it on. For people with large 100+ gallon systems, with high water flow, the original version (Wayne's skimmer) is unbelievable. A Euroreef or simular skimmer big enough for a large system cost a small fortune. Wayne's skimmer will skim just as good if not better for $30. For small systems like mine, they aren't so good without some mods. Actually my final version, as you can see, barely resembles Wayne's.
I guess to answer the question asked, the answer is NO, I get nothing for anything he sells from people seeing this thread, not even a discount. I have no interest in this what so ever, other then to pass on a good idea to the rest of the hobby, and save a few people some money.
dpieroni
12/08/2005, 10:13 AM
Hi Dugg, the only think I do not have clear is how do you make the bubbles in the surface skimmer.
I have an overflow from my tank to my sump that manage 400 gph so I could use a design like yours to add more flow to the skimmer, but I do not know how do you make the bubbles when the water goes down from the overflows to the sump..
DO you just let the water drain form a open female pvc and sucks air?
please if you can explain..
diego
The water naturally takes in air as it flows down to the skimmer. If there was no air coming in at the top, the water would not flow. With 400 GPH you will need to add an airstone inside the skimmer though. In order to use the original version of this skimmer, you need to have 1000GPH actual flow rate (not just 1000gph pump size) or higher.
dpieroni
12/08/2005, 02:53 PM
Ok. I understand.. Which pump so you use to make a recircualtion in the picture? are you doing well with this design?
what about the noise of the overflow?
thanks
diego
billpa
12/08/2005, 03:01 PM
has anyone built the original design with a gate valve to control the output? It seems that you could put a standard collection cup on one of these and then adjust the height of the foam column by adjusting the output via a gate valve. I know it would probably add a few bucks to the design but it seems like it would make it more consistent.
Good photos dugg! Id like to see some pics of your new design working.
billpa
Travis L. Stevens
12/08/2005, 03:43 PM
According to the original make of this, it doesn't need a gate valave because all of the air/contact time is in the drain pipe and not the chamber. All the "bubbleless" air goes out through the bottom hole(s) of the chamber. The bubbles stay at the top and because they have no where else to go, they go up and out the neck of the skimmer and into the collection cup.
As for a gatevalve on the new model...who knows.
billpa
12/08/2005, 03:57 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6245516#post6245516 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Travis L. Stevens
According to the original make of this, it doesn't need a gate valave because all of the air/contact time is in the drain pipe and not the chamber. All the "bubbleless" air goes out through the bottom hole(s) of the chamber. The bubbles stay at the top and because they have no where else to go, they go up and out the neck of the skimmer and into the collection cup.
As for a gatevalve on the new model...who knows.
Hmm...not sure what you mean by bubbleless air. And I would assume that the contact of proteins to bubbles happens in the chamber because its merely air forcing water down the drain pipe before then. The hole at the bottom of the chamber is fixed and the skimmate is adjusted by pulling out or pushing in the tubing. This to me is a crude (although functional) way of adjusting the skimmer output. If you create a fixed collection cup and attached a gate valve to the output of the skimmer (perhaps with a hartford loop like dugg has on his new prototype...so that sump level doesnt effect the operation of the skimmer) then you would merely have to turn the valve to tune the skimmer. Its a more precise way...thats all...not better or worse than the original design.
Dugg
I also like how you built your new reaction chamber with a slope up...nice design :)
Travis L. Stevens
12/08/2005, 04:17 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6245611#post6245611 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by billpa
Hmm...not sure what you mean by bubbleless air. No microbubbles And I would assume that the contact of proteins to bubbles happens in the chamber because its merely air forcing water down the drain pipe before then. Nope, the reaction happens in the drain pipe as well and the chamber. The surrounding air is what creates the water to fall and be pushed down as well as gravity. Because of this, some air gets caught in the the drain pipe and goes down with the water.The hole at the bottom of the chamber is fixed and the skimmate is adjusted by pulling out or pushing in the tubing. Because bubbles travel up, very little water with bubbles in it should exit out of the bottom. As for adjusting the skimmer, An adjustable neck sounds more feasable if it isn't already adjustable. This to me is a crude (although functional) way of adjusting the skimmer output. It is to me, too :) If you create a fixed collection cup and attached a gate valve to the output of the skimmer (perhaps with a hartford loop like dugg has on his new prototype...so that sump level doesnt effect the operation of the skimmer) then you would merely have to turn the valve to tune the skimmer. Its a more precise way...thats all...not better or worse than the original design. Agreed, but I don't know much about the new prototype
Dugg
I also like how you built your new reaction chamber with a slope up...nice design :)
My reference was to this skimmer pitcured below (and above in Dugg's post) :thumbsup:
http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/500/4607746077skimmer.jpg
mdiddy7s
12/08/2005, 07:23 PM
I had trouble with mine and so i sold one of them and continue to experiment with the other. I have had thoughts about a fixed collection cup mod myself. I think it would be much more regulated and although i really don't understand, or just can't picture the valve idea fully, I would love to see a prototype for it. It would make things easier for me. Try to explain further Billpa. I am listening. Maybe you could do a paintshop drawing for us.
Mike D
These skimmer threads have kind of gotten mixed up lol. I'm not sure which one has which info and pic anymore, so i'll post a few of my new low flow recirc design in here. My skimmer has been up and running consistantly for a few months now. The gate valve is the key to the consistency. It also increases the contact time. Mine agtually has a cheap ball valve instead of a gate valve due to life in hickville lol, but it works fine, just a little tougher to adjust out.
http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/500/46077100_0796.jpg
http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/500/46077100_0794.jpg
http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/500/46077100_0795.jpg
http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/500/46077100_0790.jpg
http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a151/dugg/100_0833.jpg
causeofhim
12/12/2005, 08:58 PM
dugg, Can you explain your last invention a little more for me? I would like to give it a shot. Any plans you could post?
mdiddy7s
12/13/2005, 04:42 PM
I would also like to check out some plans. Maybe you should think about patenting it. I thought the same thing for Wayne. On the other hand, how would you charge to make one and ship it to Norman, OK?
Mike D
bkiba
12/13/2005, 06:58 PM
Good idea again Dugg, but unfortunatley you can't patent it now, since you already made your idea public knowledge. SOrry bro :)
what is the deal with the gate valve going to the T at the end, specifically the T part.
thx
captbunzo
12/13/2005, 07:21 PM
Not quite sure why he has the T... But, the gate valve allows you to control pressure in the skimmer chamber...
The T is to allow micro bubbles to dissipate up the tube.
As far as a patent goes lol, i beleive in order to make them and sell them, you would have to work right? Well look to your left and read lol. I am an idle time connoisseur. You can start you a big ole skimmer company and get richer than the google guys if you want to lol. Be my guest. Me? I'll stick with online poker, it's a lot easier than cutting acrylic and pays better too i bet. I posted this here to help save other people money by building a quality skimmer for $50, not to get rich off of a little ingenuity.
causeofhim
12/13/2005, 08:37 PM
So, can you give any ideas of specs?
I don't know what more specs i could give. What do you want to know that hasn't already been posted?
It has a 2in. inlet, a 2in. riser. The recirc plumbing is 3/4 with a maxijet 1250 ph. The exit plumbing is 1 1/4 in. pvc. The valve adjust the internal head pressure. I used a ball valve because i couldn't find a gate valve that day, but a gate valve would work MUCH better. I also use a luft air pump to feed the venturi on the powerhead.
If there is something specific you need i will try my best to help.
causeofhim
12/13/2005, 10:47 PM
What is the footprint of the box? How do you run your airstone in there?
glenns
02/11/2006, 08:46 PM
Well Dugg, I finally installed the skimmer Wayne built for me. My sump now has appx 800gph flowing through it. I'm hoping that the tall slim design of my skimmer will make up for the 400gph I lack. If not, I guess I can drop an air stone in there.
I just increased my pump size up to 650gph actuall flow rate. I have had to completely remove all extra air sources from mine. If i add any air to it now, it will overflow quick, so you may have plenty already.
glenns
02/11/2006, 09:23 PM
How long does it take to begin producing skimmate?
Mine started right away. Are you getting any bubbles in the riser tube? Where is the water level at on the sump? The top of the box should be about 1 inch below the sump water surface.
glenns
02/11/2006, 10:19 PM
1" below. Great.. No, it is barely under the water level of the sump. Initially I was getting some bubbles in the riser tube, but then I shut of the pump and added the water to the sump.
Are you getting a good amount of bubbles in the skimmer box? If you are then give it a day or two to get primed up, if not add an airstone. I never work on my skimmer in the evening though. Skimmer production usually goes up at night. If you tune on a new skimmer in the evening, there is a good chance it will go crazy in the middle of the night and overflow the catch can.
glenns
02/11/2006, 10:54 PM
OK. I get more foaming action if I direct more flow from the pump to the tank. Since it is rated for 200GPH more than the overflow, I redirect some of it back into the sump through the skimmer. I'll wait and see. And, I'll keep my fingers crossed. I hope the lack of 1" of water over the top will not be a problem. If it is, I guess I'll have to get Wayne to build a shorter one.
My lights were off most of the day while I was changing the pump and plumbing under the stand. So, it will be a few more hours before I turn them off.
As long as it is under the water you are good. Just have to adjust for it with the riser hose if necessary. If you have it in a chamber with a constant water level it should stay very consistant once you get it adjusted out.
glenns
02/12/2006, 09:33 AM
Well nothing this morning. The foam only rises to the top of the 2" couple. I'll continue to wait and see. If I have nothing by next weekend, I'll install an airpump and stone.
glenns
02/13/2006, 11:01 AM
Still no skimmate production Dugg. I'm going to try adding an air stone tonight.
It sounds like you will need the extra air to me. If you could get a pic posted it might help me to better understand what we are working with. The downpipe from the overflow needs to have a good straight drop into the skimmer if possible. Since we are working with a bit lower flow then the designed amount, the airstone more than likely is the ticket though. You will need a limewood airstone to get the finest bubbles possible.
glenns
02/13/2006, 01:45 PM
I'll see about that pic. I can tell you it is not a straight drop. It comes out of the back of my tank, down the back side, into the stand about 4" - 8" then 90deg down into the skimmer.
I've purchased the limewood air stone. I'll be driving it with my old two out put Whisper air pump. If it still works. I guess I need an air valve to control amount of air.
Using just a standard airpump, i doubt you will need to restrict it with a valve. If the pump you have now needs to be replaced, get a coralife luft airpump. It won't cost but a few dollars more than any other pump, but it has the highest pressure rating available, and will last forever. You can order one from here--
http://www.marinedepot.com/md_viewItem.asp?idproduct=ES01655
I just got one from them, and they have about the best price you will find on it. Don't bother getting the bigger coralife pump, this one is the best for running skimmers.
_Sooner_2
02/13/2006, 04:38 PM
That looks identical to the Tetra Luft Pumps I used to use. That was many many moons ago. I wonder if this is the same pump? The old Tetra Luft Pumps were the very best. Pretty cool if it's the same pump and still the best. :)
Ronnie
glenns
02/13/2006, 08:39 PM
Dugg,
I'm not getting foam rising up the tube, but there is a 1/4" of water in the collection container. I've added the lime wood stone and have the air pump running now. There are many small bubbles, but no foam yet. Where should the stone be placed in the skimmer? Currently it is under the lift tube. I'm not sure if it can coax it back to the input line.
glenns
02/14/2006, 10:20 PM
Still not producing skimmate Dugg. The air stone causes foam to rise a little above the coupler, but it does not rise up the tube. I've recorded a video, but cannot attatch it. I'll see if I can PM it to you.
glenns
02/14/2006, 11:37 PM
I've copied frames from the video. Hopefully it shows you what you need. They are on zipped up in the attached file.
glenns
02/16/2006, 09:43 AM
It's skimming now. :) I woke up this morning to find Waynes skimmer is skimming. It is very wet, and the hose is 2" from the top of the tube. So, I moved the air stone to the bottom of the skimmer. Hopefully that will help it produce dryer skimmate.
Glad to see that you are getting it adjusted out. I have been extremely busy this last week, and haven't been online much. I talked to Wayne today, and told him you were having trouble getting it to start skimming. He said you can call or email him any time if you need some advise on getting it adjusted out properly. I am not going to be online much over the next few weeks or possibly months. It seems my youngest son has gotten himself in some trouble, and the state of Florida has taken me out of retirement as a parent. I have gone from enjoying my new freedom to whiping butts, and it is looking as if i may be doing it for a looooooong time to come.
glenns
02/16/2006, 02:48 PM
Sorry to here that. My mom has had to "parent" my 33yo brother twice in the last two years.
I'll contact Wayne if I need to. I think it may have been going through new skimmer break in period. I thought I rinsed it well enough to get all the mfg oils off. Guess I did nto do enough. I hope to find dark, dry and smelly skimmate tonight.
dez_2121
07/30/2006, 12:49 PM
i know this is kinda reopening a old thread but can i get a drawing or something so i can build this for my 55gl and my 30gl no skimmer on my 30 yet cause of cost
if you look in my gallery, there are lots of pictures of the skimmer.
Bill FitzRandolph
03/25/2007, 08:47 AM
Sorry for resurrecting an old thread yet again, but I have a question. I have a question about the intake. I have a 150 gallon tank, and will probably be running about 1000 gph or mabye a bit more through the skimmer. I'm doing dual 1 1/2" drain lines from my tank for redundancy/safety, so in case one gets blocked somehow, the other will still drain. Would you think there'd be a problem or a performance decrease if I ran the two 1 1/2" drains directly to the skimmer instead of the single 2" intake, or should I really combine them into a single 2" line as far up from the skimmer as I can? Thanks!!
Two 1 1/2" drains should work just fine.
grumpygils
11/24/2007, 09:06 PM
Dugg,
I am new to rc and stumbled on this thread. Maybe I need to read more, but how does the water (non skimmate) get out of the box and back in the sump? I see the return water from the dt goes into the box, creates bubbles and skimmate that flows up the skimmate tube, but is there another hole in the box for the water to return to the sump?
Thxs,
Mc
OkR33Fer
11/25/2007, 11:57 AM
That's what the opening(or gap at the bottom described by some of the diy-ers) in the corner of the box is for.
grumpygils
11/25/2007, 09:18 PM
Thanks,
Basically just a 1.5 inch square hole at the bottom side will do it then?
Mc
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