QT setup for H.Magnifica

[Flighty]

If you've read my other posts you know I am turning my mixed reef into a H. magnifica ( ritteri ) tank with two or three anemones.

I'm not ready to add a second one yet, but I want to be ready to buy any nice specimins that come along a few months from now.

I am wondering what to do about introducing a new mag into a tank with an established one already in there. I worry about transmiting an infection to the healthy one(s) and killing it.

I have heard of people having success pre treating new anemones with antibiotics, but this wouldn't help in the case of a virus or a bacteria that isn't effected by a particular med.

Is a qt tank just an unreasonable goal for a Magnifica? To not kill it I assume I would need a qt with the same bright lighting, high flow and excelent water quality as the display. That doesn't come cheap.

Any ideas?

[maww]

the idea of a quarantine tank for an anemone is hard to fathom. you really want to have a well cycled/established stable tank to add one to. I tried adding a second ritt to my 150 sump recently. The anemone in that tank ( 3 months at the time) actually moved over to the new one ( took a few days) and apparently stung it but good-- the new one died a few days later. I don't know if it was truly a case of territorial aggression, or if the new nem was just not going to make it anyway. The other ritt is still big and happy ( at 4 months), and will be staying in a tank of his own.

[Wryknow]

maww - were they both H Magnifica? I was told that multiple specimens of the same species were OK to share a tank.

[Flighty]

The real point of this is to protect the established anemones from the possible introduction of a pathogen.

I want to be able to buy a nicely colored one if it becomes available even if it looks slightly stressed.

I'm thinking of a 35g hex tank half full with one mh pendant, very frequent large water changes from the main tank and no bioload aside from the anemone and maybe a clown. Flow I havn't worked out yet.

[maww]

Wryknow- yes, both H mags. I know that it is generally stated that same species should be fine together, that's why I tried it. The two individuals were very different morphologically. The winner has a caramel colored base with quite thin brownish tents/cream tips. The loser was a purple base/pinkish tents w/cream tips. Perhaps ritteris don't follow the rules. Ron Popeil tried adding a third to his tank- lost the new addition and almost lost one of the original two. Maybe the same thing happened with his?

Flighty- I don't think anyone knows anything about anemone pathogens. My gut feeling is that an injured/dying anemone is not carrying a disease, rather is hit with an opportunistic infection that is secondary to the injury from collection/transport. That said, it seems unlikely that a healthy anemone would be affected. Have you run this by Ron Shimek? He may have some sage advice on the subject.

[kris4647]

I don't think anyone knows anything about anemone pathogens. My gut feeling is that an injured/dying anemone is not carrying a disease, rather is hit with an opportunistic infection that is secondary to the injury from collection/transport


I agree, even moreso than pathogens I believe something is lacking or goes wrong in the collection process.

I have two purple LTA's three carpets and two Magnificas in the same tank. No special precautions were taken for any of the introductions. I did lose one magnifica around a year and a half ago; about two months after adding it. It was sitting next to my other Mag which I've have for quite a while and is doing well still today.

The two Magnificas I have now are almost always touching or near each other.

Best of Luck

[Ron Popeil]

i had my first healthy magnifica for almost 6 months or so before i added the second. my initial observations were that of some problems between the two. the newest ritteri, a purple based specimen, was deflated almost constantly next to the larger white based ritteri. so i moved them apart: the purple on the sand, the white where it had always resided.

this seemed to work. no more problems. no more deflating. eventually the purple one started taking up too much space on the sand and stinging my clams, so i attempted to put it back with the other. it didnt make sense to me that two specimens of the same species would fight. especially since i had seen so many color varieties crammed together in thailand. when i put the two together again, there were no more problems. maybe i associated the deflation of the new anemone with chemical warfare too prematurely, or maybe they just came to accept each others "scent". i really have no idea why there was the initial problem.

when i added the third ritteri, it looked decent and salvagable at the store, but deteriorated within 36 hours in my tank. i do not know what caused this rapid death, but my white based ritteri did experience a whole wave of problems following the death of that third ritteri. it has now since recovered as far as i can tell, and inspite of that, i again have just recently added another third heteractis magnifica. the newest anemone has not had any problems, nor have any of the previous two specimens. the third anemone is not touching the other two, and is significantly smaller, but i think it will do ok.

this may not be completely related, but while i have a long tenticle in my refugium, two bubble tip anemones in the main display along with a small heteractis crispa i have been completely unsuccessful with keeping carpet anemones in either the main display or refugium.

while the idea of a anemone QT tank seems like an area i would love to see furthered in experiments and experience, i dont think its absolutely necessary, inspite of my past experiences. i think ill still depend on my intuitions, and just go for it and see what happens. especially with touchy anemones such as heteractis magnificas, i think they just need too much of a dedicated established tank in order to do well after their purchase to get acclimated to aquarium life. something that cant readily be replicated in a QT system. i think the experience on the anemone would be too taxing, more so than just being acclimated to the main display and letting accustom to that environment.

i believe there was a thread long ago by mihn nguyen about medications or a chemical being used on anemones. if i remember correctly, a debate was raised on the legalities of acquiring the chemical, but it was an interesting thread.

[Flighty]

I have been told that at an aquarium near me they have multiple magnificas and they have had much better survival rates using an antibiotic on incoming anemones. I don't know any more about why they believe this (ie research or just winging it) or what their procedure is, but my reef club is taking a trip there for a behind the scenes look, so I hope to get answers.

That is really what got me started thinking about this. If I do find out that there is some science and real results behind the practice, I would be more inclined to try and "save" a beautifully colored, but sick looking magnifica when I come across one. (unfortunately this happens too often) I would not want to do this at the risk of damaging my healthy one though, hence the need for a QT.

Maybe thinking of it as a temporary anemone home that I can put medications into would be better.

[Wryknow]

Please share what you finds out Flighty. It's an interesting idea that one of the reasons for low survival rates would be infections. Unconventional, but certainly plausible. Perhaps the stress of movement reduces H Mags ability to defend itself from common pathogens (perhaps even ones that H Mag itself carries?) If this is the case it would stand to reason that an antibiotic treatment would be of benefit. Sounds like another good experiment to me.

[sberman]

this sounds interesting -- have u found out anymore on what meds they are using --- i try to acllimate mine in my outdooor system before adding to the main system -- not sure if the natural sunlight helps or not --- i will know better when i can find another rit that i like enough to buy and add to the tank

[Flighty]

I know the name of the antibiotic, but if you wait until the end of August and I'll hopefully talk to the folks and get the real story. I don't want to spread erroneous information because it tends to linger on the web.

I will be setting up some sort of Magnifica specific FAQ or website later this year and I am slowly colecting information for it. It won't be for a few months though, I am just too buisy right now. Expect an email or pm someday if you have a Magnifica setup because I'll be wanting to pick your brain :D

[sberman]

cindy

sounds good , just let me know ,, if i can help i will ---- i know there are alot more quialified people then me that will help to -- i hope

[Flighty]

Bumping this.

I didn't go on my trip to the aquarium, so I still don't know their procedure. Anyone have input?

[Flighty]

Ahhh, just found exactly what I was looking for right here on RC

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=181172&highlight=antibiotics+magnifica



quote:
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Originally posted by Newflee
Just my .02 , but it must be said that Ritteri anenomes are problably the most difficult to keep. I think most suffer from trauma during shipment, but buying one that is healthy internally can be tricky. Even the most healthy looking Mags can die within days yet some live years. I personally feel that this species should be left in the sea.
I know that one or two people will post their success now, but if truth be told this species is imposible to keep even close to a natural life span (estimated to exceed our longevity).
Here's a good poll ..... What type of anenome do you have that has been with you for more than 5 years, and how long? I suspect this will be a short list.
Lee
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Used to have bad luck with them and other anemones till we quaranteened them which consisted of the following procedure. Without it, we were 0/8 on new Heteractis magnifica (now the accepted name, until they decide to change it again )
Upon arrival, all bag water is removed so you're left with a bag full of almost only anemone. The anemone is then added directly to a bucket of good quality tank water and aerated. If the water fouls or gets too much mucus, then discard that water. The anemone is then added to a 5 gallon bucket of good quality tank water which has been previously mixed with 10mg/gal of doxycycline. Most capsules available are 50mg, so a 5gal bucket works nicely. Water is gently aerated for 24 hrs mindful of keeping temp acceptable, which is done by floating the bucket in a sump or larger container of heated water, you don't want the heater in with the anemone. After 24 hrs, remove most of the water and refill with another 5 gal of good quality tank water with 10mg/gal of doxycycline. Leave for another 24hr then remove the anemone to a tank that is large enough to keep them for what could be a long time.
With this procedure, we were 6/8 and that was over 2 years ago and they're still here, with the largest now almost 30" in diameter.
As with any medication, especially anti biotics care must be taken not to overuse.
Joe

Hobby Experience: 30 years, Reefs since 1987
Current Tanks: 20,000 gallon 30' x 14' x 6.5' deep

[Wryknow]

Thanks for the QT details Cindy! This will go in my Top Secret secrets for keeping H Mag file for sure :-)

[Flighty]

I've asked Joe to post on this thread and give us a quick update since that thread was from 2003 and I think there are 12 magnificas in that tank now.

[Justjoe]

Originally posted by Flighty
I've asked Joe to post on this thread and give us a quick update since that thread was from 2003 and I think there are 12 magnificas in that tank now.

Hey Cindy,
Joe here. I have two magnificas in the main reef tank, the other ones are in the 2000 gallon clownfish/anemone tank. Thankfully haven't had to add any new anemones since the last thread in 2003, and regularly thin out the BTA's from the clownfish tank, and RBTA's from the reef tank as they are quite prolific. The magnificas haven't split, even though the two in the reef tank are 30" diameter, maybe they'll split at some point.
When most anemones are shipped from overseas, they are shipped in bascially no water, and arrive in a soup of mucus. My feelings are they simply encounter too many bacteria, that in normal populations wouldn't be harmful or the anemone could easily slough off, but given the conditions and possible open wounds, they simply can not fight back. Its not proven, but sometimes real world results and some common sense can go a long way. I certainly don't recommend broad use of antibiotics so care must be taken, but I don't see the reasoning why some folks will instantly dismiss its use without proof or replicating a study, etc. Doxy is a broad band antibiotic and probably covers a majority of pathogens.

One of the heteractis from the reef tank can be seen in the top left of the pic below, which is of the east side of the tank (Suffolk County) :)


http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/500/18004ARC_East_Side_Cropped_DSC07690.jpg

Some of the RBTA's can be seen to the left of the people, which is the west side of the tank (Nassau County) :) You can't tell from the pic but they are huge, over 30" diameter.

http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/500/18004ARC_West_Side_Distant_DSC07689.jpg

LMK how it goes with your new anemone.
Joe

[Flighty]

Thanks for the input, Joe. It really seems to make sence that infection would be a big factor based on the behaviour of an anemone I had in the past.



Well, I got the anemone tonight. It has gorgeous color, but I fear it may be too far gone. I am doing everything I can.

I told the local vet the situation and he prescribed the antibiotics for me to use.

I met the LFS owner at his shop when the shipment arrived and took the anemone before they took it out of the shipping bag. One less acclimation and chance of infection in the LFS water seemed worth the extra hour or so in the bag.

At the store it was inflated and I could see no obvious damage, but the mouth was open wide and the white stomach tissue was pooched out.

When I got home the anemone had deflated, which probably was a good thing because I was able to get it out into my bucket easily without worrying about damage caused by the extra weight of the water in the tissue. I followed the procedure that Joe outlined to acclimate and then transferred it to the antibiotic dosed water. The anemone immediately pooped (of course :rolleyes: ) , but I decided to just get out what I could with a siphon for the time being.

I finally got a good look at it at this point. It has tiny tentacles compared with my other one, but they are very similar in shape and size to pictures of other red base magnificas that have been on the board lately. I hope this is a variance in natural characteristics and not a sign that the anemone has been consuming its tissue. The pooping seemed like half digested krill meat, so I think it has eaten recently at least.

My biggest wory for this anemone is an aparent tear in the stomach tissue. Of course it is really hard to get a look at, but I think it is potentially something fatal.

The good news is that after a few hours, the mouth has closed up pretty well and the anemone has atached its foot to the rock I placed it on in my bucket. The bucket is sitting in my sump and two airstones are providing airation and a little water movement. I would love to add some flow, but I couldn't think of a good way to do that woithout endangering the anemone further.

[Flighty]

I don't think it has a chance. Later last night the mouth opened more and it was apparent that the insides were mostly disolved. The smell is... lets say, not good.

[Wryknow]

Rats! Sorry to hear that Cindy. You said that it was pretty far gone when you got it but I was still hoping to hear a miraculous success story with Jim's QT proceedure. :-( Where did you get the nem from? Did they tell you that it was in poor condition before it shipped?

[keefsama2003]

sorry to hear cindy

i have been speaking with joe on this alot and i have my anti biotics ready to go.

the anenomes that are at atlantis are quite remarkable and i mean that they are huge and i hope i can have one take over the top of my tank the same way his have. but lets hope for the best even tho the smell isnt the best maybe it can pop back. i know they say usualy once the smell gets bad the anenome is done. i have never had the expierence so i cant comment but keep us updated

[Flighty]

My LFS ordered it with their weekly shipment for me. They have gotten good ones and bad in the past.

This one was said to have come from madagascar, but I'm not sure how reliable that info is. The plane had been delayed, so it was bagged longer than normal, but I think it was probably not in decent shape before shipping. It did look ok on the outside, so you'd have to know what to look for and the guy at the supplier probably didn't.

I'm still doing everything I can, but I have low expectations. :(

[keefsama2003]

keep your head up as we have seen anenomes in general are very good at pulling thru the worst of situations. lets hope this one does the same.


you may want to get a limewood airstone and stick that in the tank should cause alot of movement with the air bubbles it produces i hear they are excellent i havent used any personally yet but i plan on it in the near future

[Gary Majchrzak]

Originally posted by Flighty
The real point of this is to protect the established anemones from the possible introduction of a pathogen.

Anemone pathogens? Anybody have links? (I've never heard of any anemone pathogens.)

[Gary Majchrzak]

Let me rephrase that. I've never heard of communicable anemone pathogens.

[Flighty]

There isn't conclusive proof, but there is plenty of anecdotal evidence to make me worried about introducing a sick magnifica in with a healthy one. People here have had healthy magnificas show signs of disease after a second anemone was introduced and died.

It just makes sense from the symptoms that these guys show that it is some kind of infection that takes hold. If there is a bacteria that infects these guys and contributes to the high death rate, I would be surprised if it couldn't be transmitted.

I do not know of anyone who has looked into this other than the success with antibiotic treatment at the Atlantis aquarium and a few hobbyists who have tried it.

Magnificas just fascinate me like nothing else in this hobby, and I hope I can someday get answers to some of these questions. Until that time I'm just trying to protect my healthy magnifica from my impulse buying and rescue attempts:)

[Flighty]

As for the anemone, it is hanging in there. It closes its mouth tight when I swish the tenticles and the tenticles are moving a bit, so I'm not giving up completely.

I think I will risk transfering it to the display for the flow after the antibiotic treatment. I just havn't been able to figure out a way to get good random flow in a QT, never mind the fact that I don't have a good light to use without some major work.

I plan on suspending it above the rockwork so it is easy to remove if nessecary, it is close to the light, won't touch corals, and I won't have to change the aquascape.

[Wryknow]

Keep us updated Cindy! I'm keeping fingers crossed for ya.

[phender]

Originally posted by Flighty
... I think I will risk transfering it to the display for the flow after the antibiotic treatment. I just havn't been able to figure out a way to get good random flow in a QT,.......

You can get quite a bit of water movement if you take the airstone off your tubing. The larger bubbles will create a lot of motion.

[pasenah]

just tagging along this interesting thread.

[traveller7]

Originally posted by phender
You can get quite a bit of water movement if you take the airstone off your tubing. The larger bubbles will create a lot of motion. I would remove the airstone or use coarse stones as well.

fwiw: I use a natural wave timer power strip with 2 little air pumps to create surge. I have had less issues with larger air bubbles getting trapped inside the anemone when they gape as well.

[keefsama2003]

what about a few limewood airstones they produce a ton of bubbles they should move the nen good.

[traveller7]

The fine air bubbles tend to get caught in an anemone with an open mouth....not pretty.

[Flighty]

The nem is now in the display with tunzes and nice lighting. It is actually looking a little better. Only time will tell...

[Flighty]

Originally posted by traveller7
The fine air bubbles tend to get caught in an anemone with an open mouth....not pretty. A bit of air had gotten caught in the tissue this morning. I was using large bubble producing stones, but the nem fliped over partially onto one. It had disapeared an few hours later though.

[mtraylor]

How is the anemone? Is it ok and healthy?

[Flighty]

Unfortunately it didn't make it. It was way too far gone.

For the geeks among us, I really think that something happens to the mesogloea between the ectoderm and the endoderm when these guys are sick. You can see something going on and the layers of tissue slide against each other. The tenticles seem to be hollow shells of just the ectoderm with nematocysts.

[mtraylor]

WEll I just ordered another one from live-aquaria. It came in looking like a pile of due yesterday, and not moving. After acclimatiing it for about 5 hours, it seems to have a bit of life. Not inflating or anything, but I'm going to administer the anti's to it and see what happens. If it turns out for the better I will post a thread with pics.

thanks

[Flighty]

Could you take pics now? I'm just curious.

[BonsaiNut]

Originally posted by Justjoe
When most anemones are shipped from overseas, they are shipped in bascially no water, and arrive in a soup of mucus. [

The last time I was in Tahiti I brought back three H. magnifica. These were the color morph with the bright red base, brown tentacles with white tips. I collected them during vacation (had a hard time finding ones small enough to collect) and kept them in a float cage under the dock until the day I left. I got up early in the morning, put them in individual bags with lots of water and about 2/3rds air, and put them in a coleman cooler that I duct-taped shut. Total time in transit was perhaps 18 hours from ocean to my tank. When I got home the anemones were all in great condition and were fully acclimated and eating within 24 hours of being in my tank.

Personally I think most of the trouble we are having with anemones is time in transit, number of intermediate stops, and general handling in the distribution channel. If there was a way you could order direct from the collectors, and have the animal overnighted to your doorstep, I doubt we would have the same problems.

[mtraylor]

WEll when I first got as I said it was not moving and was completly deflated. It looked like it had a purple boot and the tips of the tentacles looked pink. Everything was squared off. I aclimated it to the water in my tank via drip method over about 4-5hours. I then grabbed a net and placed it in the tank in a net prison. Upon lifting it and placing it in the tank, it immediately started to ease a white smokey looking substance into the water out of two tubes located somewhere around its mouth.

It looked as though a gas bomb had went off and the smoke was oosing. WEll this didn't last long, soon after it just deflated back to a small mesh. I really didn't think it was going to last much longer. I did not take amny pics of the anemone at this point, because it was dark in the room and I was more concerned in getting it in the tank. I think I took one or two, but the lighting was not good so you couldn't see anything.

Well to my amazement the next day it was stuck to the side of the mesh prison. Inflated some what. I didn't look like it was purple anymore, I cant really tell yet what color the boot was. Oh and I couldn't see the pink tips anymore either. I did snap a shot of it though from the top of the tank.

[Flighty]

Bumping to provide info requested by pm :)

Still not sure how I feel on the whole antibiotic issue, but it deserves looking into someday. Anyone have any grant money burning a hole in their pocket?

[OrionN]

Very interesting thread.
I think in TRA 2, Delbeek and Sprung mention treating sick anemones (S. gigantea) with antibiotic help survival of this species.
Minh

[dwake]

Great thread! Anyone else with experience treating any anemones with antibiotics?

[Flighty]

bump

[timrandlerv10]

hey phender...you're a teacher...how about doing a lesson on petri dishes, specimen collection, microscope use, fungus, bacteria and viruses with a little sterility and cross contamination thrown in?

:)

[phender]

Or maybe I should just write a microbiology lab book. :D

Last time I isolated and IDed a bacteria was 25 years ago.

[DrDNA]

Flighty- thanks for resurrecting this old thread, interesting reading!

[maxxII]

Flighty & Phender,

I can only add my experiances to the thread, maybe they'll help, maybe they wont. Here goes...

Purchased 1st H.magnifica from phishybusiness. After a week or two of touch and go behavior, (deflating and generally looking like crap for a few hours while acclimating to my lighting), the anemone began doing great. After about a year, I found another one for sale from another online vender. I got this anemone in and it looked a little rough, so I hurried through the acclimation and put it in the tank. The only other thing I added to the tank during this time was a Red Sea Regal Angel. The new H.mag did not make it. Shortly before it died, my healthy one began to show the same symptoms as the new one, flacid tentacles, slack mouth, tentacles withdrawing inside themselves almost like fingerless gloves. I was pretty upset since I'd had this anemone for over a year at this point.

I talked to one of the LFS guys here in StL who seems to have better than average luck with anemones in his store. He stated he dips all anemones in Doxicyclene for about 8 hours after they arrive from the shipment. He said his wholesaler told him to do it for best results. I was able to beg a couple of doxicyclene pills from him. Took the once healthy, now sick H.mag, and placed it into a specimen container with a dox pill, (100 mgs), added an airstone. The nem began to slime and with the airstone, I had a foam dox bath going in short order. After 5 hours, I did a 100% water change, and used another Dox pill. Left the nem in that mix for another 12 hours.

The nem made a full recovery and I still have it. I decided then and there that I would dip all incoming nems to prevent another cross contamination.

Hope that helps,

Nick

[AD87]

Bump for a great thead has anyone else use the method of using doxycycline.

[elegance coral]

Thanks for this this thread, Flighty:)

I am setting up a 250 for my anemones. I plan on having a Magnifica island in the middle of the tank. I was going to set up a QT tank for the new Mags so that infection could not spread to my healthy Mag. I really didn't like the idea of how expensive it would be to set up a proper QT for a mag. Especially knowing it would only be used a few time. If these antibiotics work, a new Mag should be ready for the display in two days and not two months. Now I just need to ask my Vet if she will prescribe the meds for me.

I agree with you 110% on the possibility of the infection spreading to healthy anemones. I don't need a scientific study to tell me that infections are contagious in closed systems. We see it all the time in this hobby. Fish diseases spread, brown jelly spreads, RTN, STN, the Elegance coral infection. It only stands to reason, that as the microbes responsible for an infection increase in numbers, that eventually they can overwhelm the defences of a healthy animal. I would imagine that the Oriental people learned this hundreds of years ago in their Koi ponds.

[Flighty]

I wouldn't be too quick to decide that an antibiotic will be a cure all. We don't yet know what causes this apparent infection, what antibiotics if any would be effective. It could be a virus a protozoan or any number of things and even if it is a bacteria that is the problem we have never determined what antibiotics affect it.

[Flighty]

oops double

[elegance coral]

I don't expect the antibiotics to be a cure. I just said "IF these antibiotics work"

This treatment could provide a possible alternative to setting up a QT tank. It's worth a shot, right?

[kris4647]

Wow I was in this thread too :).

I've never been on board with the infection or the chemical warfare theories.

Why? There hasn't ever been a solid connection between circumstances of the losses. Another words over the years I've had a fews Ritt's die on me. Let's look at the symptoms.

-Rapid purging cycles
-Roaming [Questionable if this should be here]
-Shrinking of body mass
-Gaping

This goes on for a few weeks at most and then we see the interior of the animal began to break down and the mouth gape completely. Dead anemone.

The problem here is that these symptoms are common to all "unhappy anemones". There isn't one symptom that we could say is common to all Ritteris who pass on. The only distinquishing thing I see from experience is that Ritt's don't bleach or visably throw their zoo, they just die.

I respect you guys for looking into this though and would be more than open to it working :).

[elegance coral]

This is simply my opinion based on my experience with anemones in general. It's not based on scientific experiments carried out in a lab, so take it for what it's worth.

The only distinguishing characteristic Mags have in my opinion is their level of sensitivity to shipping stress. They do show the same symptoms to this stress as other anemones. It's just much more common in Mags.
I BELIEVE that the rapid purging is an effort to rid themselves of foul water and growing microbial populations within the anemone. They run into problems in closed systems because when they reinflate they take up some of the water they just purged. The microbial population continues to grow and overwhelm the weakened anemone. The microbes begin consuming tissue, the anemone shrinks, and the purging continues. Eventually the destruction becomes to severe and the anemone dies.
We know that newly introduced anemones will be weak and stressed. They become an easy victim of microbial infections. If there is a way to reduce the number of microbes within and on an anemone, it only stands to reason that the anemone would have a better chance of survival. At least to me. To me, this would be like putting Niosporin on a cut. It doesn't cause the wound to heal directly. It simply removes the microbes that inhibit healing.

[AD87]

Bump

[1fishkeeper]

Im glad you bumped this back up. Im having probems with my new mag and this was a great read.

[AD87]

Where is everyone getting the doxycycline from?

[WDLV]

I don't know where anybody else gets it but I have three pharmacists in the family LOL. If I didn't, I would simply go to a veterinarian and explain what it is that you want it for. They probably won't give you a hard time about it and may even have some sample packs they could give you since you really wouldn't need much.

[AD87]

The only place is national fish pharm. I have been to two vets and my doctor with no luck. One vet wouldnt even weight it when I had Doxycycline Hydrochloride from fish pharm.

Still confused what one to use???
Doxycycline Hydrochloride
Doxycycline
doxycycline hyclate
Doxycycline Monohydrate

Anyone have any other ideas?

[WDLV]

That does complicate matters a bit.

[OrionN]

bump

[Arringar]

I suggest doxycycline hcl

[stickleback]

I BELIEVE that the rapid purging is an effort to rid themselves of foul water and growing microbial populations within the anemone. They run into problems in closed systems because when they reinflate they take up some of the water they just purged. The microbial population continues to grow and overwhelm the weakened anemone. The microbes begin consuming tissue, the anemone shrinks, and the purging continues. Eventually the destruction becomes to severe and the anemone dies.


Would strong UV filtration not help to purge the microbial from the water within a closed system?

[maxxII]

It would...

But wouldnt do anything about the bacteria in and on the Anemone.
I think it could be used in conjunction with, but not in place of antibiotics.

Nick

[OrionN]

Regarding communicable disease in anemones. I had two bad experiences with 2 sick anemones died after adding to the DT with healthy anemones of the same species. The healthy anemone then developed the same (by my observation) and died within 2 weeks.

The first case involved Haddoni carpets. I got a green carpet for years. Added a blue MO carpet. Despise providing optimal conditions, it inflated and deflated and died. The green healthy carpet follow suit and died 10 days or so later.

The second case involved H. magnifica. I got two Magnifica doing great. One over 2 years and on for about 8 months. Both doing very well and growing in a 100 g cube that set up just for them. I added a very beautiful newly arrive Magnifica to this tank. It inflated and deflated and died in 1 weeks. Withing 14 days both of my healthy anemones died after inflated and deflated cycles.

My thought is that the sick anemone carry the pathogen. Inflating and deflating are attempts but the anemones to get these pathogen out of their body. In the confined of our tank, these pathogen are dumped out into the water and got taken in my the well anemone. While this does not happen every time, getting exposed to a very high concentration of pathogen can cause the disease. How communicable these diseases are will depends on the inoculation dose and the virulent factor of the pathogen.

This is a very reasonable explanation of why my healthy anemone died in my case. Unfortunately, I do not have the resource to test this hypothesis, nor the inclination to prove this by loosing a few more healthy captive anemones. I have decided to set up full fetch reef tank as quarantine tank for new anemones. I have amassed a collection of difficult to keep anemones and not willing to loose them when I can do something to prevent it.

Regarding treating newly imported anemones with antibiotic, I think that one of the many causes of newly imported Magnifica and Gigantea death is bacterial infection. At least the end stage, the horrible smell is decaying of anemone tissue by the bacterial. This will not be the only cause of all the death but it seem that these two species are much more susceptible than other species.

I have a thread trying to treat these anemones with antibiotic. Se far I treated two. One did great when I got him from the LFS in fair shape, then he decline. As soon as I notice the decline, I took him out of QT and treat him in the hospital tank. After week treatment, somewhat under-dose (under the dose I now think needed) but he did great and recovered. He is doing fine now after 4 weeks under my care and is in my tank in display tank.

The other anemone, I talk the LFS let me treat for them. It was in too bad of a shape when I got it. It was falling off the glass, all deflated. It lived almost 1 week with treatment but died in the end. (10/16-10/22) Treatment documented in the thread link below. I would welcome any discussion in that thread. BTW, since started that thread, I have learned that the antibiotic I choose, ciprofloxacin is photo degradable. The photo-degradation it the major elimination pathway of this antibiotic in treatment tank (I use full light in treatment tank) and have altered the treatment protocol accordingly. I will continue to treat any sick anemone that I can get and will try to treat at many as I can while document it on that thread.


http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2220652