Ozone use

[ayrton]

Hi Antony,
I'd like to use ozone in my 425 gallons FOWLR new tank but I'm afraid about conseguences of his use.
Some very experienced hobbists have wrote on this forum that ozone will affect rubber parts.
Things like the tubing for the venturi on your skimmer, power cord insulation, the o-rings around your skimmer that come in contact will go bad.
Is possible that ozone will deteriorate silicone glue of my tank?
What do you think about all these bad things?
And if I'll use ozone, is it better Red Sea Aquazone 100 or 200 for my predators tank ...and what dosage...10%, 25%, 50%, 75% or 100%?
Sorry Anthony for so many questions about O3 but I'm vey confused and you are "the way to follow" for me!
Thanks a lot
One of yours many italian fans

Lorenzo

[Anthony Calfo]

buonasera, Lorenzo

I do understand that many hobbyists are concerned about ozone use.

But rest assured that it is the standard for professional aquarists in coral farms, fisheries, public aquariums, etc.

It is true that ozone weakens some plastics and rubber, but it takes many many years for the damage to have any small impact.

And this only relates to the skimmer or cylinder that you inject into because all outflowing water must be passed over carbon.

Therefore... all other plastic, rubbers and your silicone seals are never put at risk. In fact... if there were enough residual ozone getting past the ozone reaction chamber... your fish would be dead long before any seals were ruined :D

Please... have no fear. Ozone is easy and safe to apply if done correctly. Just like using iodine or calcium hydroxide... both of which can be quickly lethal to aquatic life if they are overdosed the same.

As for what size ozone and dosage... please follow the mfg recommendations for tank size, and be sure to only ever dose ozone via a RedOx controller. This makes it safe and easy. Dial your setpoint on the controller to 350-400mv

kind regards,

Anthony

[ayrton]

Thanks Antony for your quick and useful answer.
I'd like to know if the carbon that I have to use for the air outflow, over the collection cup of my skimmer, can be that which I use normally for the aquarium use or it has be a particular kind of it for air use?
And how much carbon I have to use under my skimmmer water outflow?
Thanks again for your precious help!
best regards

Ciao

Lorenzo

[Anthony Calfo]

almost any kind of carbon will catch ozone in air or water. No worries :)

[ayrton]

How much carbon I have to use under the water outflow of the my skimmer?

Thanks

Lorenzo

[Anthony Calfo]

just enough so that no water by passes it. As little as 3 oz... not much more than 6 oz. Change regularly as with any inline carbon (no longer than monthly)

[Nuhtty]

This post has been helpful! Thanks to both of you!

[ayrton]

Hi Anthony,
I have another question: My skimmer have three pumps each drawing in air into the skimmer through venturi for foaming; I have to hook all three venturi airline directly to the output of the ozone generator or only one of these is enough?
And the pump/s hooked to the output of the ozone generator will deteriorate quickly? Is there something I have to do?
Thanks, as usual, for your precious support.
Lorenzo

[Anthony Calfo]

Lorenzo,

you only need to hook one line up to the ozonizer, my friend... but it sounds like you have a rather nice and expensive skimmer!

Even if it is mostly ozone-stable (safe), I still would not likely run ozone through it. Its not that great of an advantage overall.

It would be better to make a very cheap "ozone reactor" out of PVC pipe... or buy a second used "junk" skimmer to serve as a ozone reacter.

[ayrton]

Anthony,
why do you say it's better to use something else it isn't my skimmer for processing ozone?
Problably even best skimmer and its pumps will deteriorate using ozone through it?

[Anthony Calfo]

I am suggesting the use of a used, cheap or "junk" skimmer as a sacrifice unit... rather than ruin your expensive model.

[dmirza]

my ozone generator produces much more ozone than my tank needs (i am runjning it on a controller), so I am not very concerned with it running efficiently. Are there any other disadvantages to just using an airstone to get the ozone into the watter?

Also, I was reading on the Euro reef website and they don't recommend using ozone in the skimmer because it breaks down the organics before the reactor can get to them. Would it be better then to run the ozone after the reactor is givne a chance to process the watter?

[Anthony Calfo]

many folks notice that ozone at first improves skimmate performance... then later seems to reduce it. True indeed that at some point, especially in low bioload systems, the ozone and skimmer sort of "compete" for organics. But thats not a bad thing! Why should we care which gets what portion of the organic load first so long as they are processed soon and thoroghly! :)

Skimmers + ozone are good, my friend.

Ozone is good when used properly.

Euro-reef has a quirky and misguided perspective on ozone use IMO. Fabulous skimmers though. One of my fav brands.

[dmirza]

is there any down side to running the ozone with an airstone outside the skimmer, provided my RedOx controller reads appropriately?

[Anthony Calfo]

well... no problem as long as you are somehow capturing all effluent air and water over carbon (residual ozone).

This really is done best/easiest with a skimmer (new or used/sacrificed) or ozone reactor. A small satchel of carbon on the top air vent and a small filter bag of carbon on the effluent water outlet tidy this up nicely.

[jbphoenix]

I agree with using a separate old skimmer or reactor for ozone input. I use an old Red Sea Berlin Classic for ozone input and an AquaC EV-120 for actual skimming.

I feed the EV-120 from a pump in a small-contained area in my sump where the water flows direct from the overflow. I have the old Berlin down line from there in the sump away from the EV-120 with the effluent output running over carbon before heading to the return pump.

The old Berlin also came with a carbon air filter cap so I just fill that up with carbon to filter out any stray ozone from the air. I replace both of the carbon filters (air and effluent) once every 4 weeks or so.

I have my orp setpoint set at 360mv and dose around 45mg per hour on my 90 Gal. FOWLR. The water stays so clear that it looks like the fish are suspended in air.

IMO I believe that ozone (if used properly) is very beneficial for Reefs as well as Fish only systems.

-Jerry

[Anthony Calfo]

jbphoenix - thank you for sharing your experience/opinions... we share the very same sentiments, I reckon.

I'm going to sticky this post as a tidy lead into ozone for fellow aquarists.

To summarize some points/perspectives:

- aquarists need only to look to other successful models of aquatic science and aquaculture for reassurance that ozone is very beneficial. You will rarely see a public aquarium or professional hatchery or the like that does not use ozone. They all do, and many aquarists would benefit greatly if they did too. I of course use it as well.

- its advantages are many: increased RedOx (measure of water quality) which in part inhibits many nuisance algae/organisms from growing, reduction of organics, increased oxygen saturation, dramitically improved water clarity (crystal clear water!) which optimizes trhe delivery of your expensively produced(!) reef lights to corals (huge advantage here), diseases control... the list goes on.

- it is easy to dose and easy to overdose with neglect... just like numerous other reef chemicals/additives such as Iodine and Calcium (hydroxide).

- application is simple: add ozone via an air pump to the air/venturi inlet of a ozone stable (plastic) skimmer, or simply into a junk skimmer that will be sacrificed as an ozone reactor. Catch all effluent air and water with a small satchel of carbon that is changed monthly at least. This will remove any residual ozone.

- always use a RedOx meter or controller to dose ozone

- always use an air drier... even with units that say they do not need one! The techs admit that even such units still benefit tremendously by having drier air (many X times ozone produced in dry air versus humid)

- ideal RedOx range with ozone use IMO are 350-425mv. I personally aim for about 400mv in most tanks

[jbphoenix]

Thanks Anthony.. btw I got the idea about providing a separate container for raw overflow water for my EV-120 pump from your thread "Protein Skimmer Production/Improvements". It has greatly improved the skimate production on my EV-120!! :thumbsup:

Thanks for providing such a great knowledge base for hobbyist!

-Jerry

[Anthony Calfo]

ah... excellent to hear my friend!

And thanks again for passing the knowledge along as you are doing :)

[DitchPlains2]

I bought an Enaly ozone maker, with air diffuser but no air dryer on the input air, can any makeshift device or places to get an air dryer? can I use some damp rid in a plastic container to suck air from?

Secondly,
Will an orp/meter/controller allow me to basically just setup the ozone on a timer and let it go to work once I've dialed in the mv?

thanks
let us ginzos unite...lol.

David:beer:

[Anthony Calfo]

an ORP controller will dispense the ozone as per your RedOx setpoints. An ORP meter only measures RedOx instead.

DIY plans for air dryers can be had. The device is staggeringly simple though... a tube full of dessicant (various chemicals can be used safely).

[DitchPlains2]

thanks again man, your advice is one of the major reasons why I come to reefcentral, well that and all the ladies...."gonna show her my O face, you know, Oooo Oooo" ROFOl....

take care man.

Oh I just switched to those Ushio 10k's you mentioned in another thread I posted on kelvin ratings for greater PAR. Corals are responding great, 3 150 de's 2 10k's a 14k phoniex.

thanks again, and thanks from my corals lol

Dave

[Anthony Calfo]

excellent ot hear the update Dave :)

mille grazie!

[ayrton]

Originally posted by Anthony Calfo
I am suggesting the use of a used, cheap or "junk" skimmer as a sacrifice unit... rather than ruin your expensive model.

Anthony,
do you think an old skimmer rated until 130 gallons is enough as ozone reactor for my 540 gallons tank?
Thanks a lot

Lorenzo

[Anthony Calfo]

Its really a matter of height and contact time... no info here on your skimmer specs, but I suspect it will likely do the job easily. Your RedOx with reflect it or not.

[Bert Shaft]

Dear Anthony,

I would like to make an ozone reactor for my tank, if poss could you please let me know what goes inside one, also should i think about putting a small powerhead on it to recirculate or just to feed it.

All the best

Paul

[ayrton]

Originally posted by Anthony Calfo
Its really a matter of height and contact time... no info here on your skimmer specs, but I suspect it will likely do the job easily. Your RedOx with reflect it or not.

Hi Anthony,
do you think Red Sea Berlin Turbo skimmer is enough as ozone reactor for my 540 gallons tank. I'm going to buy an old cheap one!
Its specs are:

The unique skimmer with a triple air pass and patented air return "skirt.". The Berlin Turbo greatly increases contact time by allowing for the introduction of significantly more air bubbles (volume of contact). Combined with the triple pass of the Berlin this combination makes for unbeatable results. The combined effect of the triple pass with Turbo drive increase the protein extraction capabilities significantly.Tangential water inlet. Venturi air injector. Full size air carbon filter. Unique compact design. More effective than skimmers twice the size. Removes levels of proteins other skimmers can`t. Optional internal or external mounting. Easy cleaning. Safe ozone use. The Berlin Turbo utilizes a new 12 blade TurboJet Impleller that actually creates a significant positive pressure enabling the skimmer to operate the triple pass and do it without an additional pump.
23" tall. up to 250 gal.

What do you say about it?

Lorenzo

[Anthony Calfo]

heehee... yes, it may work better as an ozone reacter than a skimmer alone :) And I do not believe the plastic is ozone stable...so it will become brittle over time, if so.

[sfsuphysics]

Originally posted by Anthony Calfo

DIY plans for air dryers can be had. The device is staggeringly simple though... a tube full of dessicant (various chemicals can be used safely).
Can you save up all the little packets from aspirin and other such pills?? :)

[hex1]

yes you can, you will have to open them and dry the beads in a oven,
but thats a lot of work and the ones in the packet dont contain a indicator dye to tell you when its time to dry them. you can get a pound of indicator dessicant for $13 or so from aquatic eco. not worth the hassle to save the packets, imho

[djian]

Anthony, In your opinion, would you go with a UV sterilizer or Ozone?

[Anthony Calfo]

ozone for most folks (home and public aquaria).... UV only for bare-bottomed commercial installations (its the only place they can be of any good use/value IMO due to their limitations of efficacy based on strict installation and water pre-treatment requirements which I have outlined in detailin this forum/the archives if anyone cares to delve further)

[Puffer Queen]

After many years of using both UV & ozone, I prefer ozone.

If you are using ozone in a tank/pond with a pond liner, make sure you are diligent about changing carbon as the ozone will eventually destroy the liner.

FWIW,
Kelly

[djian]

Does anyone have any pics of how the carbon is placed? I can see it in my head, but I want to be sure what I'm seeing is accurate.

Ian

[golfish]

Originally posted by djian
Does anyone have any pics of how the carbon is placed? I can see it in my head, but I want to be sure what I'm seeing is accurate.

Ian

I'd like to see a few ideas on this as well. I run a recirc skimmer and have the water return back to the sump using 1" PVC. I'm not sure how to set this up? I'm using an old Phosban reactor for carbo right now.

[Old Yeller Tang]

Have you looked into this one? Really cheap and saves the trouble of making one.

http://www.marinedepot.com/md_viewItem.asp?idproduct=ES00796

[Puffer Queen]

As far as the placement of carbon - start at the beginning of this thread & reread Anthony's posts on carbon.

I found them helpful.

Kelly

[Anthony Calfo]

heya, folks... sorry for the brief (2 post insertion) awkward shuffle of this thread page but I just saw a thread from Bert Shaft (11/02/2005 03:37 PM entry) about making an ozone reacter and thought it best to merge it with this sticky for better archiving and visibility/help to more folks.

As for making a reacter... the term is loose. About as loose as "calcium reacter" or "phyto reacter".

Loose in the sense that they are merely plastic chambers. Capped tubes. Really not much more than that.

If you want to get fancy here, you can buy schedule 80 PVC pipe instead of regular schedule 40. Either will work fine. An ozone reacter really, literally can be as simple as a tube that we just aerate (glass airstone to withstand the ozone... Korndon makes them... Aquatic Ecosystems makes them too... many other companies. These are the "reusable" airstones marketed).

So... after capping say a 4" pipe that is roughly 24" tall... the top is plumbed or simply tapped (drilled) with some sort of air vent which you place a sack of carbon (nylon sock or the like) to filter any residual ozone from air... and you plumb the body of the tube with a smaller effluent water tube... over which you tie a nylon sock of carbon again (much like we do on overflow drains, skimmers, etc) to obviously catch any effluent ozone from out going water.

You can perhaps see now why old skimmers are set up nicely to serve as ozone "reacters".

And that is a simple device.

Now some folks like to add bio-balls or design modifications to increase the contact time between air and water... or pressurize the unit - these changes are intended to improve the efficacy of ozone (increasing kill time for ozone, increasing oxygen saturation of the water, contact time overall). They are nice features... and you see this in most commercial units.

But ozone is so very effective, that even a DIY unit will make a significant impact on water quality.

[golfish]

Roland,
I bet I could connect the output of that reactor to the input of my old phosban reactor that I use for carbon..

[Old Yeller Tang]

Originally posted by golfish
Roland,
I bet I could connect the output of that reactor to the input of my old phosban reactor that I use for carbon..
;)

[golfish]

Roland,
You buy one first then I can see how its works, then I'll make my own. I need pictures or something I can see to make heads or tails of it.

[Leishman]

I need a larger air dryer. Who knows where to get one?

I'm running 500g and 250g air dryers in line and I'm still having to recharge the media every 4-5 days. I saw on Joe's (JB NY) site he has a 1200g chamber he got from Champion but Champion don't carry that one any more. I also found that TAAM (RIO) make an 1800g unit, but can't find a place to buy one.

Anyone have an idea where to get the 1200g or 1800g unit?

Thx

Rik

[Anthony Calfo]

Aquatic Ecosystems (TX)... fab catalog... not the cheapest, but perhaps the biggest inventory of aquaculture supplies in the US

[Leishman]

Their dryers are small (http://www.aquaticeco.com/index.cfm/fuseaction/product.detail/iid/2254/cid/568) also. Thanks for the link, but still looking.

[Anthony Calfo]

do call them, my friend... they have a huge inventory that is not all listed online (such as their proprietary sintered glass airstones [fine-pore] that are incredibelfor skimmers - reusable).

They are aquaculture suppliers for some very big fisheries. I would be very suprised if they only have hobby/small installation solutions here.

But if you call and its still so, then do look at contacting Ozotech directly. I have seen their commercial models in action. Some very old ones too. Quite good quality.

[Old Yeller Tang]

Originally posted by golfish
Roland,
You buy one first then I can see how its works, then I'll make my own. I need pictures or something I can see to make heads or tails of it.
Mark,

I was going to order today but MD told me my ER skimmer is ozone safe, so I won't be needed one now.:D

Roland

[jbphoenix]

Originally posted by Leishman
I need a larger air dryer. Who knows where to get one?

I'm running 500g and 250g air dryers in line and I'm still having to recharge the media every 4-5 days. I saw on Joe's (JB NY) site he has a 1200g chamber he got from Champion but Champion don't carry that one any more. I also found that TAAM (RIO) make an 1800g unit, but can't find a place to buy one.

Anyone have an idea where to get the 1200g or 1800g unit?

Thx

Rik

Rik,
I run the same setup (250g and 500g) in series and I have to recharge mine around every 2 - 3 weeks, and could probably go longer if I wanted.

I did run an piece of airline tubing from the first unit in the series to a place outside of the tank stand so I would not be drawing in so much humid air from an open sump. Every 4 - 5 days seems quite often to have to recharge the beads.

I know I live in Phoenix where the outside humidity hovers at less than 15% most of the time, but the humidity in my house (not in the stand under the tank) runs around 30 - 35% or so.

Just my $.02 worth

-Jerry

[Anthony Calfo]

electronic, self-recharging dryers are the way to go :) Well worth the investment. Your time saved is worth more than the few hundreds of dollars. Especially on a reef system as large as yours with the price tag it carries :D

[Old Yeller Tang]

Btw, what does ozone smell like? I was told like lightning but what does lightning smell like!:lol:

[wld1783]

Old Yeller Tang

Be careful. I had a leak in my MR6 skimmer due to ozone. After a year the rubber seal degraded. If it has rubber it will be affected by ozone. I also have a CS12-3 and keep ozone away from it. The uniseals on the pumps may not be ozone safe.

Ozone is great I still use it in MyReef skimmer but now its sealed with Plumbers Goop. PITA to clean now but no worries.

Bill

[TippyToeX]

Roland, ever walk into Kinko'd or a print shop and smell a jet printer? That inky smell is very similar to what ozone smells like IMO. :D

[jbphoenix]

Originally posted by wld1783
Old Yeller Tang

Be careful. I had a leak in my MR6 skimmer due to ozone. After a year the rubber seal degraded. If it has rubber it will be affected by ozone. I also have a CS12-3 and keep ozone away from it. The uniseals on the pumps may not be ozone safe.

Ozone is great I still use it in MyReef skimmer but now its sealed with Plumbers Goop. PITA to clean now but no worries.

Bill

That is one of the reasons I use an old Red Sea Berlin for ozone instead of my fairly new AquaC EV-120. If the old Berlin falls apart from ozone use then I have not lost much. :p

[golfish]

Hey guys,
I just picked up the Red Sea AquaZone 100 Delux. The directions say I need an air pump...Is that the case even if you use a venturi skimmer?

[golfish]

Man! I hate sound like a dummy:bum: I also hooked up the probe and started up the unit. I turned the set point and mg\hr to zero. I figured since I'm not ready to use the unit I'd "condition" the probe..I'm getting 000 readings. I knew low numbers were normal but 000?

[Old Yeller Tang]

Originally posted by TippyToeX
Roland, ever walk into Kinko'd or a print shop and smell a jet printer? That inky smell is very similar to what ozone smells like IMO. :D
Thanks Amy.

It's been a long time since I've been to a Kinko's but I still remember the smell. Kinda liked it!:D

Roland

[Anthony Calfo]

you need an air pump to push ozone most always... and most controllers (or at least their propes) state in the instructions that there is a several day (to week +) period of adjustment for ORP readings to be correct. Do reread your instructions and chat with others that have used ORP meters... you will hear/read the same experience. No worries.

[quaz]

Yeah, I've noticed that it'll take our 200mg red sea ozone about a day to two to read accurately.

So don't go pumping up the ozone because your orp starts reading low.

[golfish]

I was just little shocked to see it reading 000..Last night it started to raise a little. It read 009 before bed and its about 120 right now.

[golfish]

Ok guys, The meters been running for 3+ days now and the ORP reached 185 before the lights came on, once the lights come on the ORP slowly goes down. I started Ozone at 25% yesterday and set the ORP set point at 250 just to go slow.

I'm guessing I want to raise it slowly?

[Puffer Queen]

Yes raise it slowly and make sure you are changing the carbon weekly on the air as well as the effluent water side.

You will also notice a drop in ORP after you feed.

Best of luck.
Kelly

[bergzy]

my milwaukee opr controller took about a week to stabilize. i called the manafactuer and the tech guy said it can take up to two weeks for the probe to 'settle' down. hey just like my cat if i step on his tail by accident! sheesh! :)

[golfish]

Well, it seems like the probe and controller are working fine. I setup and old Berlin skimmer using a GenX 4100 pump a few days ago. It seems to work just as good as using my big Geo skimmer. I managed to get the ORP up to 350 (from 185) running the generator at 70-80%. I did a 20 gal water change last night and the OPR dropped down to 250, its up to 260 now (about 20hrs later) does that sound right?

[Puffer Queen]

Fluctuations in the ORP will occur with feedings, water changes, hands in tank, etc.

Hope this helps.
Kelly

[johnnstacy]

Originally posted by Anthony Calfo
electronic, self-recharging dryers are the way to go :) Well worth the investment. Your time saved is worth more than the few hundreds of dollars. Especially on a reef system as large as yours with the price tag it carries :D

Where is this available? I couldn't find it at aquatic eco.

One other question. When do you know it's time to change your ORP probe? I have been using mine for about 1 year. Lately though I have been getting readings of over 300 without the unit on. I clean the probe and it drops a little but goes back up. My probe is used with the aquacontroller

[Anthony Calfo]

you need to check the mfg specs on your probe for its lifespan... they run the gamut. But few are truly accurate after a 1-2 years

As for the electronic air dryer... did you try calling the toll free number and asking a tech/agent for advice?

If so and still not... do simpy ferret out Ozotech online and ask their sales folks for dealers they can refer you too. I recall Custom Aquatic is one of them.

[kinerson]

Anthony-
I'm afraid you may miss my follow post from a previous thread so I wanted to ask you here since it relates to the topic.

I have a Millwaukee probe and controller in my system that's been there for close to 2 months. The ORP value started off at around 250 and steadily climed slowly for a couple weeks until it peaked at 470! On my previous thread I had told you it peaked at 370 (uhh, opps). I breifly mentioned I thought the reason why the value was so high was due to a decent amount of green hair algae that I've been doing battle with for a while. Actually my refugium which is close to 25% of my total system volume is LOADED with the stuff which is helping to slow the growth in the display. So my question is if the orp value of 470 seems possible or even likely and if so is dosing small amounts of ozone a bad idea with orp at 470?

Greg

[Anthony Calfo]

470 seems very unlikely frankly. Very.

You can calibrate your meter though. Some of the Milwauke's dont have an exterior set screw, but if you open it up you will see a calibration screw inside (very tiny).

Get some ORP calibration solution and recalibrate it.

I frankly don't see how its possible to get to 470 in a typical aquarium even with safe ozone amounts. A rather unlikely reading here.

[golfish]

whats a good number to shoot for, for an sps tank, 400?

[Anthony Calfo]

golfish... we work very hard to build thorough and useful threads/content - especially the stickied ones - so that we can use out time helping new folks/new questions rather than answer the same ones over agin ;)

I have answered your very question for another posting member if you'll kindly look back.

With nearly 4K posts to your credit... I trust you really don't want to be enabled, right? :D

Anth- :)

[johnnstacy]

I found a product made my Ozotech called a DG Air Dryer. I have no seen a picture of it yet but it is described as:

"Ozotech DG Air Dryer. Calcium chloride media which turns to liquid."

Anyone ever heard of it? I have yet to find an electronic one unless that is the one Anthony is referring to. Sells for about $55. Sure would like to know how it works though and if it has an airline tubing connection.

[kinerson]

hehe, yeah Anthony, that's what I figured. I'm good but not that good ;)

Greg

[Tony B (UK)]

Anthony,

I've got an Aquamedic Ozone & ORP unit.

My tank has only been up since end of June 2005.

When I first started using ozone about a month ago my MV was just 230mv. It now reads about 440mv and my ozone unit is not even plugged in... The Ozone unit has been unpluged for about a week now...

I've tested the ORP meter in the AM test fluid and it reads fine, at 239mv.

Questions:

Do you think this ORP reading is normal/right, considering my tank is not even 6 months old? (although there's lots of mature LR).

Would you advise using ozone in small amounts, for about 15mins at night?

Why the jump in ORP from about 230mv a month ago, to 440mv now?

Tony B

[Anthony Calfo]

Hmmm... lemme check on exact model/part numbers for Ozotech/other brands... but Clearwater Tech LLC has one (model AD-40 is their version of an automatic, heat-regenerative desiccant air dryer)

Tony B... I'd like to help you my friend... but you just haven/t given enough info, mate. I'm not sure I really coud say remotely regardless (without a look and a lot more info).

Imagine if you will that you had a very heavy bioload with no effective skimming, sparse water changes and daily feeding of the fishes/corals. In that case... you have my personal guarantee that your ORP reading of 440mv without is dead wrong ;)

But if your tank is an 800 liter display with 2 pseudochromids and one coral, two massive skimmers that work fabulously, and a weekly 25% water change... then the reading might be correct :D

And assuming your tank bioload is somewhere between these two examples, I cannot fairly say if your probe is accurate, my friend.

You/we must simply check our probes and readings against known standard solutions! Thats what they exist for, my friends. Buy a bottle or a bunch of single-use RedOx calibration solutions and periodically test your meter and probe to see if they are reading true or straying. This is standard lab work/procedure when you own/use such equipment.

[johnnstacy]

Originally posted by Anthony Calfo
Hmmm... lemme check on exact model/part numbers for Ozotech/other brands... but Clearwater Tech LLC has one (model AD-40 is their version of an automatic, heat-regenerative desiccant air dryer)

You weren't kidding that these are an investment. I found the unit above for $742! Just about had a heart attack!....lol. Anyways, Ozotech does have a couple of other units that do the same thing. Lowest price was about $622 I think. I like the idea of this Ozotech DG Dryer which is $54! I wrote to Ozotech asking about the this dryer. Here is what they said,

"Our DG Dryer uses a dissolving desiccant media, which means as is absorbs moisture it will actually dissolve. This dissolved media will drip from the bottom of the unit and is caustic, so we don't advise using it if there is the possibility of human or animal contact with the excreted liquid. You would not need to dry anything, and it will last quite a while depending on the amount of moisture in the area. When the desiccant media is depleted, simply refill the container with more desiccant media."

This seems to me to be a very cost effective alternative to the dessicant beads that I have to cook in the oven every 2 days. I wrote him back about the media that it uses. They said they sell it for $2.60 lb. I think they said the unit will hold .7 lbs. When they say that, "it will last quite a while" I'm not sure how much time that is. I guess until I try it, I won't know. I am getting ordering info from him now on the media.

[Tony B (UK)]

Anthony,

Thank you for your reply.

I appreciate it is very hard for you to comment without seeing the system. If you're ever in England you can pop in for a beer or a cup of tea!

I have an Aqua Medic 300 Ozone generator. I have an Aqua Medic ORP meter.

I have tested the ORP meter with the Aqua Medic test fluid, which should read 230mv (depends on temperature) and I get 239mv, so I'd say this is ok.

My tank holds about 100 UK gals. It has lots of live rock and 24 corals, 3 of which are SPS, two LPS and there's one bubble tip nem.

I have detailed my equipment (skimmer, filter etc), live stock/corals in my signature. I feed 3 to 4 times a day with flake. I feed the tangs Nori once a day. My inverts get food added to the system 3 times a week, which is a liquid feed.

My skimmer needs to be cleaned out each week as the cup fills up with very dark smelly fluid.

My main concern is the jump from 230mv, to 440mv over just a 4 week period. The MV reading was always charging ahead of the set point. The MV value has remained constant at 440mv despite the Ozone unit being removed from the system for about a week now.

As aforementioned....The Ozone unit has been removed for about a week, just before it was removed the ORP reading was about 330mv. Over just seven days this has gone up to 440mv with no O3 being added?

My stock has remained the same, my feeding is the same, my filtration is the same, everything has remained constant.

With this additional information, I would welcome any further comments you may have.

Thank you for your time.

Tony B

[Anthony Calfo]

Tony... my instinct here in light of your husbandry detail is thatthe tank really is not running at a RedOx value of 440mv. But I certainly could be wrong.

Let me suggest you grab calibration solution from another company to compare for perspective.

Also move the ORP probe around the system to see if you get very different readings on overflow versus skimmer effluent versus display proper.

Do ask around as well to see if you can find an LFS or regional aquarist with an ORP meter to test a sample of your water on a different probe.

Please do follow up with your findings if you can.

And I'd dearly love to see you tank and share a beverage one day, my friend :)

[Tony B (UK)]

Anthony,

Thank you again for your reply.

Great advice, I will try to get my hands on another ORP meter and obtain test fluid from another maker.

I will post my findings in due course.

Best regards,

Tony B

[johnnstacy]

As an update, I have ordered this Ozotech DG Air Dryer. I also ordered the calcium chloride media that goes in it directly from Ozotech for $2.60 lb. I will post the results of this cost effective air dryer once I receive and use it.

[golfish]

Originally posted by Anthony Calfo

With nearly 4K posts to your credit... I trust you really don't want to be enabled, right? :D

Anth- :)



Anthony, I'm not sure..is this some kind of threat?

[Anthony Calfo]

a sarcastic compliment actually... I presume that anyone with that many posts is (obviously) an avid reader. Avid readers are avid information gatherers... and avid information gatherers are generally self-sufficient folk and do not want or need to be spoon fed or enabled.

Above all... I am the last person that will or wants to spoon feed anyone that is otherwise intelligent and capable (see my sig line please... I practice and preach it).

You will notice in my various posts thorugh the years that I duly give students, young people, newbies and new RC members a lot of leeway on this issue.

But folks that have many posts, list advanced degree professions, etc in their profile do not get kid glove treatment from me. Out of respect for your intelligence and/or the position you've earned in life.

It boggles my mind that anyone otherwise would navigate past their home page search tool... ignore Google, Yahoo, and any other search engine... get to the RC website... enter the forums which is an enormous database of archived information... then ignore the search tool at the top of each page... just to ask a question that amounts to "please spoon feed me"

Furthermore... it insults me that anyone would do so in the same thread (how ironic) that has the very answer to the question asked. Its a short thread at that! ;)

It can be taken as a lack of respect for others peoples time.

That all said, the issue here is minor. I'm using your question and this opportunity to illustrate philosophies of mine on education, web courtesy, and some realities of the instant gratification that too many of us have come to expect by logging on to a message board.

You are a team RCmember, my friend. You have premium search privileges... and have been invited to mentor here because you have shown merit in guiding folks to optimize the site.

I know that you are very capable and I show you my respect (odd as it may seem) by not treating you with kid gloves. I ask for the same treatment from others/always.

Your question was minor and harmless... and I suspect I've answered your followup question clearly :D

No worries.

I'm just (as usual) writing and building content with a long view in mind (archives) beyond this specific issue.

be well,

Anth- :)

[golfish]

Originally posted by Anthony Calfo
a sarcastic compliment actually...

I took it as a threat to take away my posting privileges.


I did do many searchers and read thread after thread, just didn't see anything mentioned regarding the ideal ORP range. You might find this hard to believe but sometimes people just miss things. Seeing how you feel that I'm "intelligent and capable " I would think you would have just given a quick answer or quote rather then drag me down.

Obviously we see things different. I'm that last person on this BB to kiss some ones behind so I'll just come out and say that you must have many followers because it probably takes a lot of people to push your big head through those small doorways.

No worries, you wont see me back at your forum unless your head swells more and you feel the need to drag me down again.

Before you feel that need remember what I said "sometimes people just miss things.

Originally posted by Anthony Calfo
I know that you are very capable and I show you my respect )

You have an odd way of showing respect...maybe you should rethink things a little, especially to your elders.

[Anthony Calfo]

No threat at all... I have no such powers. No mod really does. All UA issues are democratically weighed... fairly and at great length by an intelligent consensus, despite what some folks may think :p

Yours is not a UA issue... we are just sparring intellectually (or not).

Sorry you see this as a head swelling issue. But I do have concern for your thin skin as a team RC member, withstanding my own flaws.

Will you really leave the forum and deprive the members of your favors/duties as a mentor (TeamRC) and your own benefit of learning from the various threads and posters? Just because of one jerk (even if that jerk is me :D). Really? I'm not worth that kind of spite, I assure you :p

I take the blame for this one.

Please do reconsider... your participation is very welcome.

[Luis A M]

Funny that I deal with idiomatic issues,Tony´s English is one of the richest in RC,while mine naturally is far from that:lol:

But I see an idiomatic misunderstanding here.Tony used the word "enabled"and Golfish took it as "disabled"in the sense of being denied access to the forum.

[Anthony Calfo]

Ah, but your English is very good Luis!

You were able to concisely summarize what my long-winded posts could not :D

Thank you, my friend :)

[tjay]

Is it possible that a 25mg per hour unit is to small for a 90?
I dont have my cotroller actually turning the orp generator on or off, but mostly just watching the readings that is giving as I give it a week to settle in.
Even when I run the ozone for several hours the orp never goes above 300

[Anthony Calfo]

it's more a matter of bioload and organics in the system...

and more importantly, the break in period is slow! Have patience and see where is goes in some weeks (presuming you calibrated it from the start?)

[tjay]

well that is an interesting thing
the controller is a dual miluakee ph / orp
it came with fluid to calibrate the ph and instructions
there was no mention of calibrating the orp sensor

Where does one find instructions and fluid for calibrating the orp probe

[Anthony Calfo]

I honestly don't have much experience with Milwuake products... but a friend of mine was having trouble with their new ORP controller and doubted the accuracy of it.

So... I said the same thing: just calibrate it to see if thats the issue or not.

Well, long story short... this model did not have instructions for calibrating it... not even an external adjustment to do it. I was dumbstruck looking at it... I could not fathom a meter that did not have a calibration set screw or the like!

We made the decision to open the unit up. The reasoning was that the factory at least had to calibrate the unit and there must be an adjustment screw inside.

There was.

We calibrated the unit and it has worked fabulously ever since :D

You can get ORP calibration solution from places that sell probes obviously. I just bought my last calibration kit (for Octopus 3000/4000) from MarineDepot.com

The calibration solutions are all standards... no worries.

[NicoleC]

Originally posted by johnnstacy
As an update, I have ordered this Ozotech DG Air Dryer. I also ordered the calcium chloride media that goes in it directly from Ozotech for $2.60 lb. I will post the results of this cost effective air dryer once I receive and use it.

I would be curious to know if this is the same media that is in the small disposable "Damp Rid" dehumidifier I bought at Target just to try it out. It, too, melts and drips down when exhausted.

...

A quick visit to their web site says,
"The white pellets are calcium chloride, which is a non-toxic inorganic salt product."

...

Guess so!

[Anthony Calfo]

here in Pennsylvania... we get our share of ice storms, heavy snow, etc (near Great Lakes)... and we get Turbo calcium... er, I mean Calcium chloride for pennies per pound. It's road salt. Period. And its a fab dessicant. Not only is it a fine and time tested drier media (if you don't mind the cleanup and replacement)... but this is THE media used in dessicant boosted drip trays on mechanized shutters for greenhouses.

The calcium chloride pellets are poured onto trays that sit in front of the incurrent ventilating shutters. And when air is brought in by the action of the exhaust fan (other greenhouse side wall)... it passes over the CaCL pellets... dries the air... which can then pick up more moisture (and heat) in the greenhouse before being exhausted. It's a cheap enhancement of evaporative cooling applications.

[Luis A M]

Originally posted by Anthony Calfo

Ah, but your English is very good Luis!



You were able to concisely summarize what my long-winded posts could not :D



Thank you, my friend :)



Flattering not being it my home language!:)

I felt that you were not understanding each other.

Some wars started because of bad translations...:p

[RobReefer]

Hello all, First off I want to say thank you to all who posted. I have learned a lot from this forum. I'm not happy with my water quality in the tank. (Water has a yellowish tint.) After doing a whole lot of reading, I have decided to buy an ozonizer, but still have a couple of questions.

I think I have decided to go with the Red Sea Aqua zone plus Deluxe. I was wondering what mgph to get, and if anyone has any comments on this unit. The sites I've been on haven't really been to helpful. I know it really depends on the bio load. I have a 55 gall with 16 good sized corals and 6 fish. so I hope that helps.

Also on top of that, I know I need a controller. I want to know which unit you people think is the best. (never used an Orp meter before) Also the info on the site says "Only run once a month". I figure this is if you don't have a controller. Am I correct?

And last but not least, (LOL I know a lot of questions) do you think my POS sea clone would make a good reactor? Or just spend the extra money on the Coral life reactor? (prolly a dumb question being that the Sea Clone is only good for a paper weight.)


Any input would be greatly appreciated. Thanks,
Rob

[RobReefer]

Sorry, I made a mistake with my last post. I was going to ask wether I should get the deluxe or the regular. The deluxe has a built in redux controller, probe, air dryer, and pump. I wasn't sure if I should get the regular, and buy a better controller, and dryer.

[Luis A M]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6077196#post6077196 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Anthony Calfo

ozone for most folks (home and public aquaria).... UV only for bare-bottomed commercial installations (its the only place they can be of any good use/value IMO due to their limitations of efficacy based on strict installation and water pre-treatment requirements which I have outlined in detailin this forum/the archives if anyone cares to delve further)



Hi Tony,

Are you positive that the germicidal power of ozone can compare with that of a UV?.

Why you advise UV for bare bottom commercial installations?I did search the forum as well as some relevant literature,like Spotte and your book but couldn´t find the reason.Only that you mention that importers dealing with lots of new poorly quarantined fish are in bad need of avoiding disease spread,but this doesn´t explain why UV should be chosen in this situation,being ozone a good bactericide as well.

I always used UVs and never tried ozone.I keep multiple tanks systems.Most are bare but some have DSBs.Given the other advantages of ozone exposed here,and the maintenance problems of UVs,I am considering to switch to ozone.

There is a plumbing problem though,as with skimmers,they can´t be hooked inline of the main return line.UVs can.If all bacterial kill happens within the skimmer/reactor,this means that many bacteriae can by-pass the ozonizer.

[Anthony Calfo]

I have to catch a plane in hours my friend... I regret I cannot answer at length, but I really have written about this (UV applications) redundantly here on RC and over at WWM.

UV is only variably effective and usually not applied/installed correctly.

To summarize... it is inferior in practical applications with typical hobbyists/installations. That is its big handicap. Installed correctly, it can be effective agaist some things.

As for bare-bottomed tanks... UV cannot affect what it cannot contact (in the light chamber). But ozone has an affect on water quality throughout the system.

Perhaps some other RC members will recall some threads where this is discussed before I get back in town.

With kind regards,

Anthony

[killerwhale]

Anthony, I am very interested in implimenting ozone.There are some things that are still scary to me but I know it has do to ignorance.In the case of a post early you suggested that the probe was not reading right and should be verified maybe even with someone elses probe. Is there a danger of overdosing the tank if your probe doesnt read right.If so how do you avoid this since I know you use ozone and are away from your tanks quite often.Are you ever fearful comming home and finding things sideways.Did your monitor come with its own probe or did you buy that seperate. I was suprised that oztech doesnt make all the accesories to go along with the generator, like the dryer ,monitor and such. Also if I understand this correctly ozone will not affect plankton in a neggative way if it is applied correctly Is that true? .In one of E.Born's articles he suggested it might but also blamed heavy skimming. I also understand there is a give and take to everything and he brought that up in the article as well. If there is some reduction in plankton is it becuase ozone depletes their food souce or does the ozone actually kill the plankton?

[Big E]

As for bare-bottomed tanks... UV cannot affect what it cannot contact (in the light chamber). But ozone has an affect on water quality throughout the system.

Could you explain further how ozone affects water its not coming in contact with? I've been researching both options (UV & ozone) for weeks & haven't run across this anywhere else.

From what I've gathered the ozone reaction happens in the chamber/skimmer, nowhere else.

[Anthony Calfo]

for starters... the indirect/incidental benefits of ozone: increased O2 saturation and higher RedOx potential to the water shifting overall water quality in favor of target animal health, which is above and beyond the mere kill of pests and pathogens by ozone or UV alone on contact.

[bergzy]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6194983#post6194983 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by tjay
well that is an interesting thing
the controller is a dual miluakee ph / orp
it came with fluid to calibrate the ph and instructions
there was no mention of calibrating the orp sensor

Where does one find instructions and fluid for calibrating the orp probe

i have a wilwaukee orp controller and was having 'issues' with it initially as it was giving unusually low orp readings.

i called milwaukee and the tech said to give it few days up to two weeks to 'break in'. mine took about 4 or 5 days to get a reasonable orp reading. the tech said to call him if it doesnt do it and he will get me some cal fluid out.

overall a good but not great product. would i buy another one from them? yeah, sure, price is good, reasonable product and good tech support.

i would definitely take one if it were free! ;)

[Big E]

Hmmm........that still doesn't change the fact that ozone can only affect the water that it is coming in contact with in the reaction chamber, just as a UV unit.

Both provide a better environment for target animal health. I wasn't trying to compare the benefits of the two, merely pointing out they can only effect the water that passes through the vessels.

I like what both technologies have to offer but ozone's O2 saturation benefit isn't one of them. That is easily acheived in any standard reef system.

Thanks for your comments.

[kimoyo]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=5964804#post5964804 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Anthony Calfo
many folks notice that ozone at first improves skimmate performance... then later seems to reduce it. True indeed that at some point, especially in low bioload systems, the ozone and skimmer sort of "compete" for organics. But thats not a bad thing! Why should we care which gets what portion of the organic load first so long as they are processed soon and thoroghly! :)
Ozone clears the water by converting organics from a light absorbing form to a nonabsorbing form and can break down organics into smaller pieces. But once they are broken down, if the skimmer is not removing the nutrients, where are they going?
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=5965689#post5965689 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Anthony Calfo
its advantages are many: increased RedOx (measure of water quality)
Exactly how is Redox a measure of water quality? Which leads to the question how does ozone make water quality (not clarity) better?

ORP is a measure of the relative oxidizing and reducing power of a solution. Iron, iodine, manganese, and nitrates are all oxidizers and will raise ORP. Should we be using them for their redox potential? You can also raise ORP by lowering your pH. Would you recommend this in a reef aquarium? My point is I don't see how ORP is a measure of water quality.

[Anthony Calfo]

kimoyo/Ed...

I think you are missing some serious fundamentals here.

Re: O2 saturation, it might be easily accomplished in your system without ozone... but that is rare. An understatement really. Even folks with large skimmers still find that they do not reach saturation in their aquaria and/or that ozone still increases O2 levels with use over without. Don't just take my word for it... go test a friends tank, LFS system water, etc. I've been doing it and my own, facilities I run/consult,etc for years. The numbers don't lie.

As for ORP as a measure of water quality, Paul... are you serious? I really don't even know where to begin to answer your question without a most remedial address. Let me ask you to start a new thread on the topic (how is Redox as a measure of water quality) if you feel the need to explore it via posts. But I think you simply need to dig deeper (Spotte, Moe, Escobal, etc.) and take some measurements of a sampling of systems and draw your own conclusion, which I feel will be similar inevitably.

[Big E]

Anthony, I tested my water years ago with Lamotte kits & I had O2 saturation levels with my undergravel filter setups as well as trickle filters.

With all the technology we have now to turn over water & the massive flow & turnover some systems have I'd be shocked if most systems weren't at saturation levels.

The only time O2 levels are a concern to me is when the power goes out & that's only till I hook up my generator.

[Anthony Calfo]

Ed - your situation is unique IME, and also testimony to likely very good water quality, nutrient export, etc. It's not common with the masses of aquarists. Thanks for sharing.

[kimoyo]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6268776#post6268776 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Anthony Calfo
As for ORP as a measure of water quality, Paul... are you serious? I really don't even know where to begin to answer your question without a most remedial address. Let me ask you to start a new thread on the topic (how is Redox as a measure of water quality) if you feel the need to explore it via posts. But I think you simply need to dig deeper (Spotte, Moe, Escobal, etc.) and take some measurements of a sampling of systems and draw your own conclusion, which I feel will be similar inevitably.
Anthony,

I respect you and have argued for you in the past. But I don't think you are correct in your understanding of what ozone and orp are. Since this thread has been started I have seen many other threads with hobbyist talking about ozone and orp based on what you have said here, which is my main concern. I've been in several good discussion about ozone and orp since the summer and have read several articles. Here are some excerpts from Randy Holmes-Farley's ORP and the Reef Aquarium (http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2003-12/rhf/feature/index.php) article.

Originally posted</a> by Randy Holmes-Farley
Many aquarists have been lead to believe that ORP is a measure of water quality or purity. Manufacturers selling ozonizers and other oxidizers (like permanganate) have been especially keen to present that idea. But is it really true? Is a higher redox indicative of "purer water" even when that redox is manipulated artificially by adding strong oxidizers? Or is such an addition analogous to an air freshener that masks odors? I don't know the answer, but I think that aquarists should ask the question, and hope to hear useful answers before adding such materials to their aquaria.

Obviously, one can decrease the yellowing of water fairly quickly with oxidizers. It turns out, however, than many organic functional groups that provide color are just the ones that are readily oxidized. It is a common trick for organic chemists that need organic compounds to lack colored impurities to add an oxidizer that "kills off" the color in certain impurities, but leaves nearly all of the primary organic compounds behind. I've done it myself when making dyes for photographic film. You don't want the film to be yellow, so an oxidizer is added to the dye, let it oxidize the color away, and then use the unaffected dye in the film.

Of course, that decolorizing itself can be viewed as beneficial, but it is not necessarily indicative of the load of organics that have been removed from the solution. It is also not necessarily indicative of an improvement for tank inhabitants. The oxidizer did something to the organics. Maybe they are less toxic in the oxidized forms. Or maybe they are more toxic. Or perhaps they are not toxic regardless of the form. Maybe they are more readily metabolized by bacteria. Is that a benefit? The point is that assuming that such a treatment is of significant benefit to the aquarium may be in error.

If an oxidizer is added and ORP goes up in 30 seconds, is the water purer? Not likely. More likely, that addition shifted many of the redox species to their more oxidizing forms. Is that beneficial? Maybe. Is it detrimental? Maybe. For example, the bioavailability of certain metals may depend on the form that those metals take. Is increasing bioavailability of them desirable? It all depends on the details. Details that are simply not known for aquaria.

I have spoken to Randy about this a few times and many others. Is there some research that has been done to back up what you have said? I would appreciate if you could take the time to explain what seems to go against what I have read up until now.

[kimoyo]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6268776#post6268776 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Anthony Calfo
As for ORP as a measure of water quality, Paul... are you serious? I really don't even know where to begin to answer your question without a most remedial address. Let me ask you to start a new thread on the topic (how is Redox as a measure of water quality) if you feel the need to explore it via posts. But I think you simply need to dig deeper (Spotte, Moe, Escobal, etc.) and take some measurements of a sampling of systems and draw your own conclusion, which I feel will be similar inevitably.
Anthony - Your voice carries in this hobby. You are advocating ozone use and I feel that it is important for you to back up what you are saying since it is contrary to what other experts have said.
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6268442#post6268442 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by kimoyo
Ozone clears the water by converting organics from a light absorbing form to a nonabsorbing form and can break down organics into smaller pieces. But once they are broken down, if the skimmer is not removing the nutrients, where are they going?

Exactly how is Redox a measure of water quality? Which leads to the question how does ozone make water quality (not clarity) better?
I think these are very important and not simple questions, although I don't feel I should be the one to discuss this with you because of my limited knowledge and experience. Maybe we could invite Randy to chime in here?

[Anthony Calfo]

I think we are having a difference in perspective here, Paul.

I often (redundantly) remind folks (like you now, my friend) that when I write posts, articles, books... I am preaching to the masses. And the masses in our hobby are beginning and intermediate aquarists.

So IMO, the best way to be effective is to not bury them in scientific jargon and citations, but rather give them my summary of what I've read and know.

There is also the matter of being a mentor that gives practical information that is useful and of "value" rather than making oneself appear smarter while losing, confusing or boring one's audience.

To summarize this line of thought by using a new fav saying of mine, "its better to seem generally knowlegable than specifically pretentious." To be clear too... I am not calling you pretentious, Paul. But I am concerned that you are being unrealistically semantic here... that is to say, you are not giving enough regard for the practical advice and application of what I have said to date on this issue.

Facts IMO:

- Ozone increases the saturation of oxygen in water.

- Ozone improves water clarity which improves the penetration of light at depth which improves the efficiency of lamps used as well as the value of their operation vis a vis the fact that more light produced (on watts consumed) makes it to the targeted photosynthetic organisms.

- There is a correlation between higher order species thriving naturally in higher RedOx waters and generally regarded as nusiance species in lower RedOx value water (field observations of species in specific niche on the reef... also see Moe on Paletta from the Marine Aquarium Reference, etc. as per above post).

- Without ozone, if you skim aggressively you can watch the Redox value of the water increase in large part from the export of DOs... and nuisance algae wane by the same actions. And in systems with a lack of such aggressive nutrient export which have the inevitable bloom/boon of nuisance algae that follows... you can watch the RedOx value of the system fall accordingly as DOs rise.

I am calling the above four comments/realities of ozone use an "improvement in water quality."

I don't know if I can spell out my position any clearer than that.

Can you tell me how I'm mistaken that an improved penetration of light, increased O2 saturation and desired responses by display and pest organisms alike by use of Ozone and correlative measure of RedOx is not an improvement in water quality? I can't see how that would be so.

You will notice that cyanobacteria struggles to survive in aquaria if at all in systems with a stable and high Redox. Same for many other pest algae. You will also notice that popular shallow water corals fare better (growth, longevity/health) in systems with high and stable RedOX values. Or do you have an different experience here?

[kimoyo]

Anthony,
I really don't know alot about this hobby. I have been taking it one thing at a time and trying to do my best to learn as much as I can. There are so many topics I feel you have helped in and its great how much time you take to help others (having forums in different boards). Ozone and ORP are complicated things and IMO should be approached with caution. I appreciate that you try to talk to all levels of hobbyist.

I agree with your facts.

Setting aside the harmful issues of ozone because that can be corrected by using carbon, the thing I'm having trouble with using ozone to accomplish these goals is that its not actually exporting anything. It is breaking down organics to simplier forms. It has been shown with ozone use there is an increase in nitrifying bacteria, and many have said they've seen their skimmer produce less with ozone. It seems that the ozone breaks down the organics and the bacteria (not sure about ammonia eating ones) are having a feast. But is this a good thing? Eventhough the bacteria are getting the goods, shouldn't we want to get as much nutrients out of the system as possible?

[Anthony Calfo]

it's a very good point you make about reduction versus export as with ozone versus skiming or water changes, for example, without use of ozone.

Given to choose... I would definitely opt for export of nutrients rather than reduction most every time. I do in fact skim aggressively (two skimmers per tank) and do very large water changes (weekly) on my own systems.

For aquarists that don't manage nutrient export as well for whatever reason (do not want to do large water changes, very heavy bioload, etc), ozone is often a useful tool to improve water quality. This is a prinipal reason why public aquaria use it (heavy bioloads on displays and they cannot afford to do large water changes).

indeed... it is not to be taken lightly. It can be misdosed and quite dangerous. But so can calcium hydroxide, iodine and other common reef treatments as has oft been pointed out. The key to all is understanding, respect and control (hence the admonitio to always and only apply ozone with an ORP controller).

Good points again Paul... thank you for your input.

Anth- :)

[kimoyo]

Anthony - Thanks for discussing this with me and considering what I have to say.

[Luis A M]

Great thread:) Much to learn and think about here:rolleyes:

Now getting back to my possible switch from UV to ozone as a bactericidal device for my multi-tanks systems,and assuming both approaches have similar bacterial killing power within their rector chambers:

Pros of ozone are:

Easier maintenance-no need to pre- filtrate,clean biofilm from sleeve,or change lamps.

Additional WQ improvements-ORP,oxidizing "gelbstoff"and other organics.

Cons are:

Need of additional equipment-ORP controller,air drier.

Hazardous if misused.

Can not be hooked in the return line,so that all water passing to the tanks gets treated.This is because common reactors or skimmers are not pressurized.Could this be solved by sump partitions or placing return pump in a bucket fed with ozone treated water?

[Anthony Calfo]

yes, my friend... cansiters in series (ozone reactor with a carbon-filtered air effluent, and then carbon filled unit with flow through media) can do the job here as you have suggested.

[Big E]

Ed - your situation is unique IME, and also testimony to likely very good water quality, nutrient export, etc. It's not common with the masses of aquarists.

I don't think my system is unique, but I'll agree that a system with corals wall to wall, a heavy load of fish, running high temp, high salinity & a thick sandbed, would definately have a higher need for the extra O2.

This is your forum asking for your experiences/opinions & not mine, so I'll move on. Thanks for your insight.

[Luis A M]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6273779#post6273779 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Anthony Calfo
yes, my friend... cansiters in series (ozone reactor with a carbon-filtered air effluent, and then carbon filled unit with flow through media) can do the job here as you have suggested.

I didn´t make myself clear.A non pressurized device´like ozone reactors,skimmers or trickle filters can not be in between a pressurized return line,as they will overflow.
So how can we ozone treat 100% of the water returning to the tanks?.
This plumbing problem is similar to what we discussed in the skimmer thread.

[Anthony Calfo]

it can be done inline ala Ocean Clear filter styles, or a better example:

http://www.marinedepot.com/md_viewItem.asp?idproduct=ES00796

a pressurized ozone reactor that can be followed by a pressurized carbon filter if you prefer.

[Luis A M]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6276009#post6276009 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Anthony Calfo
it can be done inline ala Ocean Clear filter styles, or a better example:

http://www.marinedepot.com/md_viewItem.asp?idproduct=ES00796

a pressurized ozone reactor that can be followed by a pressurized carbon filter if you prefer.

How do they work?Where the injected air goes?:confused:
I was thinking to place the return pump in a bucket/compartment fed in excess with ozonized water...:rolleyes:

[RobReefer]

I just received my red sea ozonizer / controller. I also bought the coralife ozone reactor. I am going to hook the reactor up to my old phosban reactor and fill it with carbon. But I was wondering if anyone knows of something that I can hook up to the reactor to filter the air. I know I have to hook something up to it, so I don't die. I went to about 3 LFS's and everyone looked at me like I had 3 heads. Any ideas? On the top of the reactor it has a connection for airline tubing. Is a sack of carbon enough? Or is there something that will fit the connection that I can buy?

[Puffer Queen]

A bag or panty hose with carbon on the effluent air tube or vent is fine. Just change the carbon weekly. You will notice a bleach like smell if you need to change the carbon more frequently - you will experience symptoms - headache, nausea. etc before anything catastrophic happens to you and believe me it would take large amount of exposure for a prolonged period before that would happen.

Best of luck,
Kelly

[RobReefer]

Thanks Kelly. I guess I can use the carbon that I bought for the carbon reactor for that. you would think that coralife or someone would make something to attach to the top of the reactor. My only real question now is how many Mgph to run the ozonizer at. It ranges between 0-100 mgph. It's only 80 gal of water, but has a moderate bio load. I've read this whole forum and a bunch of articles on ozonizers, but have not't come across this info. Unless I just missed it. It happens sometimes. LOL

[RobReefer]

Ok well I finally got everything up and running. I don't have the ozone pumping because I'm still waiting for my probe to adjust. I did a test run on the setup and found a problem. The water and O3 do not separate in the reactor. The only thing that comes out of the air outlet is water and a little air. Both the O3 and water move through the same tube into the Carbon filter, and bubbles and all back into the tank. I was wondering if this was ok, because it is passing through an almost filled canister of carbon. or if I did something wrong. I made a drawing of how it is setup. If anyone has any suggestions please let me know.



:confused: http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/500/96440Pictur_Of_03_setup.JPG

[badpacket]

Anthony, just thought I'd mention that according to Aquaticeco, the airstone you mention is online, located here:

http://www.aquaticeco.com/index.cfm/fuseaction/product.detail/iid/9751/cid/2


Question/s for you.

Would you have a preference for these or Kordon?
And, aside from the $45-50 Luft pump, is there another pump model you can recommend which is actually quiet yet powerful enough for 1 or 2 airstone duty for either ozone or supplemental skimming duty?

Found this as well, seems a useful flow/pressure pump chart:
http://www.aquaticeco.com/index.cfm/fuseaction/listings.categories/ssid/311

[Anthony Calfo]

I love the Kordon brand... but have not had any success with their glass airstones to date when employed in protein skimmers. I do not believe they are made for the purpose.

[Luis A M]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6284837#post6284837 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Luis A M
How do they work?Where the injected air goes?:confused:
I was thinking to place the return pump in a bucket/compartment fed in excess with ozonized water...:rolleyes:

My question was bumped:( but I imagine injected air must leave the reactor thru some special valve that somehow stops water escaping or mini bubbles are mixed in the water return flow tp the tanks,as in some kitchen faucets.
In either case,I guess a powerful air pump is needed to counteract the pressure of the return water pump.
Therefore my shopping list if I want to replace my in-line UV with an in-line ozonizer keeps growing:eek:

Powerful air pump
Ozone -proof air-line
Air drier
Ozonizer
ORP controller
Probe (sold separately)
Ozone reactor
Carbon reactor for treated water
Carbon contactor for escaped air
Special fine ozone-proof air stone

:mixed:

[CastleRock]

Where is the best place to put the controller ORP probe?
in tank? in the overflow? or the other end of sump from the skimmer after injection? or in the return area of the sump before the skimmer and isolated from the injection area?

I have read through this thread and did not see anything on this
Thanks

[Anthony Calfo]

You will notice that you (may) get slightly different ORP readings from different places in the tank.

FWIW... I like to place my ORP probe (if using only one) in a dark plac out of the way near the surface of the display.

I figure an ORP reading closer to the animals (vis a vis display versus sump probe placement) is more useful than a skewed (high) reading in the sump, high aeration/flow area, etc.

[RobReefer]

Luis, I had the same question, (which no one answered). So I called coralife about their reactor. The Tech I talked to said that the reactor is not supoosed to seperate the o3 and water. Both are supposed to go through the carbon filter, and then back down to the sump.

[Luis A M]

Right,it is not clear how this reactor works or where the air/ozone goes.May be Anthony can clarify:rolleyes:
Could you describe how your reactor is built?Where water inlet/outlet are placed?.Is the air outlet a simple hole or a valve?
Thing is that in multi-tank systems,I need 100% of the returned water be treated.But if tis reactor is hooked in-line,it has to work under the pressure of the return pump.
Thanks

[jkapit]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6304593#post6304593 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by RobReefer
Ok well I finally got everything up and running. I don't have the ozone pumping because I'm still waiting for my probe to adjust. I did a test run on the setup and found a problem. The water and O3 do not separate in the reactor. The only thing that comes out of the air outlet is water and a little air. Both the O3 and water move through the same tube into the Carbon filter, and bubbles and all back into the tank. I was wondering if this was ok, because it is passing through an almost filled canister of carbon. or if I did something wrong. I made a drawing of how it is setup. If anyone has any suggestions please let me know.



:confused: http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/500/96440Pictur_Of_03_setup.JPG


I just bought the coralife reactor as well and I think you may have your water flow in the diagram incorrect. After reading the horrible directions I think the water goes in the inlet closer to the side so the water travels down the reactor while the ozone bubbles up the reactor so it mixes well. Then the water goes through the dispersion plate and exits through the center tube.

Let me know if you think I have it wrong.

[RobReefer]

I definatly agree. The directions that came with the unit were very bad to say the least. I do belive that I did infact hook it up right. I explained to the tech exactly what I did and what was happening. He said "that was the way it is supposed to work." I have it up and running right now, and every thing is great so......... It is possible I guess that the tech was wrong though..... The way your describing makes sence to. You should call Coralife and see what they say. Please let me know if I am wrong.

[RobReefer]

Well Luis, I'm not sure if you have ever seen a phosban reactor, but it is the exact same thing. The inlet tube is in the middle and runs down all the way to the bottom. From there the water flows up through the reactor media towards the top. At the bootom of the reactor is an airstone that the o3 bubbles up through. Then at the very top offset to one side is the outlet. There are 2 airline tube connections on the top of the unit. One that goes down to the airstone, and one for exhaust. The exhaust is what i am having the problem with.


I wonder why the spell check button isn't at the bottom any more?

[Luis A M]

Rob I get the idea,I used to have a Lifegard carbon filter.I agree with jkapit in that the air flow must be counter current to maximixe the contact time.
My question/doubt/problem (that nobody here adressed:( ) is that if this thing is placed after the return pump,water will overflow thru the exaust.
And if the air outlet is closed,air will exit mixed with water,up to the delivery valves.
Please do us a favour,run it and tell us what happens:)

[RobReefer]

Luis, I have been running it. It is on the return side of my sump. But I have the water getting refiltered in my fuge. Your doubt/problem you are thinking of is true o3 and water both get expelled back into water. According to the tech guy at coralife, it is ok because it is going through an almost filled phosban reactor filled with carbon. He said thats how he had it set up on his tank. If thats right or not im not sure. But I can tell you that coralife said it was ok. And i have had no problems. (Not yet at least.) The tech that one of the air inlets on the device should be plugged with the needle valve they give you. He said the valve is only used on certain applications. I dont exactly remember what they were unfortunatly but it did not apply to my situation.

[Luis A M]

Thanks.The air valve is probably used to purge air when first setting.
I think this device should be transparent,otherwise there´s no way to know how much air is being injected.You using a strong air pump?

[jkapit]

Luis,

I set mine up yesterday the same way Robreefer did with the water traveling down the middle tube and ozone and water travelling out the top with the bleeder vavle totally closed. Then I run it through a phosban reactor with carbon.

But with regard to the bleeder valve, according to the directions, you can control the amount of ozone that stays in the top of the reactor by keeping the valve slightly opened. I think if you want to run the reacter in this mode where air is escaping out the bleeder valve and only water leaves the water return then you have to plumb the unit in reverse, that way the water comes in from the top of the unit and is pushed down then up through the middle tube and the ozone rises and escapes out the bleeder valve(Similar to the way skimmers separate water from the bubbles. That is, drawing water from the very bottom of the skimmer and letting the bubbles rise). I think this mode of operation is what is poorly described in the directions as "Method 1".

But since I twisted my bleeder valve too hard it broke right off I just set it up up to expel the water and ozone out together. Also, I guess if you ran it this way you would need a carbon filter on the bleader valve as well which is just one more complication and a run to Home Depot.

[RobReefer]

Sorry to hear about the bleeder Jk. I tried using the reactor with the water flownig downward, and it did seem to realy work right. In this case the o3 gets pushed right into the escape tube for the water. It also seemed that the water was not mixing well at all. I changed it back to the origional way. I think that the water mixes better because of the media inside. Jk, if you use the other method and get it to work better than this way, please let me know. Luis you can see through the unit. Its a clear red.

[Luis A M]

Thanks foklks,I see it better now:)
If water is entered thru the bottom reaching tube,it will leave thru the top pushing all the air in the return line.This is almost the same as injecting the air via a "T" connection,not much of a reactor.
But if water enters at the top and leaves at the bottom,air will react against the water flow and ends collecting at the top of the reactor,where it keeps delivering O3 to the water.The size of this air chamber could be regulated to some extent by fiddling with the needle valve.And the air pump must match the water pressure of the system.

[RobReefer]

Yes Luis. I'm glad I have been of some service to you. You are correct, it is not much of a reactor. Your almost better off getting a phosban reactor and an airstone. It is the exact same thing. If you hold them up side by side they look identical. Hopefelly Jk gets his reactor running the the oppsoite I have it. I would like to see if he can get it to work.

[jkapit]

After running the ozone reactor for a day the way I had it set up I am actually going back to my original plan on using my skimmer as the reactor.

Even though I was running the ozone/water output through carbon I began to smell ozone in the room. Plus there are some other configuration issues in my sump that made taking up room for the two reactors less than ideal.


I originally set up my ETSS 800 skimmer with ozone, but also smelled ozone in the room so I ordered the coralife reactor. Now that I am focusing on using the ETSS I've done some more work to reduce/eliminate the ozone smell.

The first mod to the skimmer was to replace one of the air injector elbows with a speed-fit fitting for 1/4" tube. I connect the ozone generator with no air pump to the speed-fit fitting and am let the skimmer draw the ozone in from the ozonizer in one of the downdraft towers. Thus, eliminating the need to use the air pump.

I built a new carbon air filter out of 3" PCV which attaches to my waste container. The one that came with the unit only had an inch of carbon on the top of the container and I though maybe it was not catching all the ozone. So the one I made forces the air output of the skimmer to go through a 6" tall tube of carbon which has seemed to help.

To insure I have no residual ozone returning to the tank I actually have 3 1-liter filter cartridges from Lifereef that I have filled with carbon. I am using a Quite One 900GPH pump to process the water at the far side of the pump so virtually all the water that the ETSS is expelling will get treated with a trip through the carbon.

I tried to make a large cannister filter on the outlet of the skimmer, but it created way too much back-pressure and the skimmer was leaking water out the air injectors. Not a pretty event!

The last mod I plan to make for this setup is to cover the small section in my sump where the water exits the skimmer. ETSS skimmers produce some micro bubbles and they rise to the surface in the area so I am going to make a cover and put a vent on it with carbon just to make sure the microbubbles are not expelling ozone into the air.

So basically, since I am pushing 900 gph through the skimmer which creates a thick white foam I figure I am getting much more out of the ozone than the smaller reactor which is processing 100GPH.

I'll keep you posted on my progress.

[RobReefer]

Man Jk, I think I might try to use my old seaclone too. Im not sure that the reactor is doing much of anything. The Orp is around 250 and not going any higher. I dont think the reactor is much of a reactor. :( I will also keep you all posted as I mess around.

[rickburdeniuk]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6185256#post6185256 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by johnnstacy
As an update, I have ordered this Ozotech DG Air Dryer. I also ordered the calcium chloride media that goes in it directly from Ozotech for $2.60 lb. I will post the results of this cost effective air dryer once I receive and use it.

How did the air Dryer work out?

[RobReefer]

How has the calcium chloride worked as a drier?

[RobReefer]

I was wondering if any one knew of a skimmer that works well with ozone. one easily carbon filtered?

[Fred_J]

I have had my coralife reactor set up with the water exiting from the bottom tube for close to a year now. I put a different needle valve on the air output so I can control the height of the water inside the reactor. I do get water and air escaping from the needle valve which I placed under water. The way I have it set up there is pressure built up inside the reactor. It was working fine until my red sea unit stopped producing ozone. I now have to send it back to see if I can get it fixed before the warranty runs out.
Fred

[RobReefer]

Sorry to hear that Fred. I have mine set up the same way. The problem is, is that the water and o3 don't seem to mix as well in the reactor than if I put the ozone into my css 125 skimmer you know?

[Fred_J]

When I hooked mine up to my ER6-2+ I could not get the skimmer adjusted right. It did mix the ozone with the water a lot better. I think the ideal thing would be to have two very good skimmers with one using ozone. I was also a little nervous about the long term effects of ozone use on my skimmer.
Fred

[wet reefer]

great 03 thread!

Anthony, given choice would you use a reactor or a red sea skimmer? I have a "berlin" that is not being used right now.
I would rather not use my skimmer that is in use now because of drying issues.

[RobReefer]

IMO having the reactor, I would definatly use a skimmer!!!!

[wonk]

For those using a skimmer for a o3 reactor, do you mod your collection cup so you can put carbon on top of it somehow?

[murfman]

i drilled a hole in my cover, put an airline fitting and got one of the corner carbon units that the updraft tubes in a plenum use and put a line to allow the O3 to vent through it.

[oldimpala]

Good Morning Everyone!

I just moved/replaced my main tank, and have a question. I have a "new" tank, with some "old" and seasoned bits in it, like my LR, and some sand cultures, etc.

At present it's a FOWLR tank with a handful of inverts, getting ready to move into corals. I've got an Enaly Ozone unit, and a PinPoint ORP Controller. The question I have is, since this is a still kind-of-new tank when should I begin dosing the O3? Should I wait a while, until the corraline takes over again, should I do it now, etc? I read through the info on this thread and didn't see anything referring to it.. Perhaps I'm just being a little over cautious, but better to ask than kill stuff.. :)


Thanks again-
-Andy

[RobReefer]

Oldimpala, sorry I don't have an answer for you, but how do you like the Enlay? I have Red Sea's o3 unit with the built in controller, and I'm not sure if I like it.

[quack]

luv my redsea!

[quack]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6646860#post6646860 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by wonk
For those using a skimmer for a o3 reactor, do you mod your collection cup so you can put carbon on top of it somehow?

i do not but i have a very large skimmer and know that no froo o3 escapes the skimmer vessel. I do run carbon in the sump as i did before o3.

[oldimpala]

Rob-

I like the Enaly unit; I mean it works well. It probably isn't the quality of an Ozotech, or something, but heck, I can buy a bunch of them for that price.

I bought the unit with the air-pump built in, so it's nice to have one plug for everything, the dryer is extremely cheap; If I had to buy it again, I'd build one from PVC, and buy some dessicant.

It's "fine" I guess; brings ORP up like you wouldn't believe... Def. glad I have a controller, and if I get a few years out of it, for $50, great...



-Andy

[Marcelog]

I can't agree with you more on the Enaly unit Andy, although I disabled the built-in pump as it was causing fluctuations with the water level in my skimmer.

Marcelo -

[Fred_J]

My problem with the red sea units is if you are using an air pump the controller will only shut the ozonator off and not the air pump. This causes the dryer to not last very long.
Fred

[quack]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6744075#post6744075 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Fred_J
My problem with the red sea units is if you are using an air pump the controller will only shut the ozonator off and not the air pump. This causes the dryer to not last very long.
Fred

good point! I do not use the dessicant , It's easy to use just a pain in the a to keep 'fresh'. . . so i lose some efficiency but the unit catches up at nite, orp settles at 450, fishies go to sleep and tank is doing the best it ever has!

[Fred_J]

I think not using the desiccant is what made my Red Sea unit quit working. I still have not gotten around to calling about a repair under warranty. I know it can't be cleaned like some of the other units.
Fred

[quack]

had mine for a few years . . . on good advice (not from the factory) i carefully flush it monthly with very dilute methnanol/distilled water. I have it installed far from the sump in aseparate a/c room maily forcorresion protection ande i still keep an'eagle eye' on the orp. im planning on either a 2nd red sea for backup and reduncey or maybe just another probe

[RobReefer]

Well I'm not ready to ditch my Red Sea yet. I have a feeling that I cant get my ORP passed 315 because of my Coralife reactor. I think I am going to buy another skimmer for the o3. What kind of skimmers are you guys using for o3?

[RobReefer]

BTW Quak, nice reef cam!!!! But i saw you in it. LOL

[quack]

euroreef for me!!!

hey, u think i could give t. cruise a run fer his $? lol

[RobReefer]

Not sure who t cruise is?

[quack]

errr . . . tom cruise of TOP GUN fame !!

[oldimpala]

Rob-

I run a MRC-MR2. Love the thing. It was between that, and a Deltec APF-600. I like the fact that it's modular; can grow/change with you, and Andy at MRC is great. (No, I'm not that Andy)

Pulls some seriously funky stuff; even after only a few weeks of the tank being on line. Makes me feel like a "bad parent", after how much my ASM pulled out on my old, much, much heavier stocked tank...



-Andy/Oldimpala

[Fred_J]

quack-- When you run the solution through your Red Sea, Do you just mean through the tubing, not the actual unit?
Fred

[RobReefer]

Quack, LOL. I thought about got it after I replied..... I only saw your arm though.

Is the MRC or the Euroreef easily carbon filtered? Or do you guys just hang a sack of carbon from the return?

[quack]

I just hang! (lol)

[oldimpala]

Rob-

I don't think you should be asking about anybody's sack here... :lol:

Seriously; I run 2 carbon sacks; one on the vent to my Waste container. The MRC's got a pressurized waste outlet; so if it fills my container (Like if the skimmer freaks out one day), it shuts down. I put a PVC tube over the auto-shutoff vent, and slide a carbon packet into the tube. Air is now vented.

For the outflow of the skimmer; I put a PVC "Wye" on it; 1.5" into a 2.5" tube. I hang another sack of carbon in there; I'll bet 99% of the water is forced to flow over the baggie. Cost me about $10 at Lowes, 20 minutes to work something out. Works like a champ.


-Andy

[mikeguerrero]

Hey Reefers,

I've been doing a lot of research regarding Ozone in the last three weeks, tons to be found on RC. I decided in an attempt to help my Acros out I need more water purification and what better way to do than with Ozone.

Since my Deltec AP 600 skimmer is rated to receive and handle ozone I decided to start the process; here is a list of my equipment that I put together to make this project work.

Here they are:

All the components.
http://i1.tinypic.com/nvqmmw.jpg

Coralife 8ft norprene ozone safe tubbing.
http://i1.tinypic.com/nvqmpj.jpg

Hagan elite check valve and T fitting ozone safe.
http://i1.tinypic.com/nvqmv8.jpg

Coralife luft air pump ozone safe.
http://i1.tinypic.com/nvqmxe.jpg

Sanders 50mg/hr ozonizer.
http://i1.tinypic.com/nvqn36.jpg

Milwuakee SMS 510 ORP controller
http://i1.tinypic.com/nvqn4h.jpg

Controller in place
http://i1.tinypic.com/nvqnap.jpg

I spoke to Milwaukee tech support and they let me know not to connect my controller until Saturday. They let me know that I must run the probe for at least 5 days to stabalize the accuracy of the unit.

He told me not even to look at the values in MV on the screen as they will flucuate like crazy as the unit begins to stabalize.

He was right, man did they jump all over the place on the first day it climbed to 241 MV, which when I went to bed it was at 119 MV.

My redsea 500g air dryer has not come in until next Wednesday.

MG

p.s
Three days have passed and my Milwaukee SMS 510 reads 322 mv. And I haven't even connected anything to the controller yet. It's all about husbandry and of course skimming a 72 gallon tank with a powerful skimmer.

I can't hardly wait to see how much more efficient my skimmer acts when I run the ozonizer; I'm going to target 390 to 400 mv ORP with ozone running.

I notice that during feedings I drop my ORP 10-20 mv and it takes about one full day to climb back up.

Remember I'm doing this all just with my skimmer on; ozonizer is still in its' box.

[RobReefer]

Oldimpala, wrong sack buddy! LOL JK.
I am now seriously considering the mrc. Looks like a great unit.

Mike, You got a nice setup. Keep us posted on how it works out for you.

[Fred_J]

Mike-- Congratulations on such a high starting ORP reading. I am embarrassed by how my ozone wiring looks compared to yours. You have given some ideas on how I can redo mine.
Thanks
Fred

[mikeguerrero]

Thanks guys,

Update,

ORP reading has finally maxed out at 326 mv... I would love to run the Ozonizer now, since it's a long weekend, but I'm reluctant because my airdryer is not here it will arrive on Wednesday.

Any recommendations if I should wait until Wed, making sure dry air is going through the sanders unit?

I have placed the ozone unit in place but haven't wired it yet, here are two pics:

http://i1.tinypic.com/o0qvsn.jpg

http://i1.tinypic.com/o0qw00.jpg

MG

[mikeguerrero]

Being that my ORP is 326 mv without Ozone, I took some pics of my reef so we may compare a before and after shot.

Here are the before pics:

http://i1.tinypic.com/o0rxpz.jpg

http://i1.tinypic.com/o0rsjq.jpg

http://i1.tinypic.com/o0ru4y.jpg

http://i1.tinypic.com/o0ruih.jpg

[mikeguerrero]

Well,

Here is a step by step process on me connecting my Sanders 50 mg/hr onto my Deltec AP 600 skimmer:

Remove collection cup for easy access to air intake valve
http://i1.tinypic.com/o10h74.jpg

Cut small piece of effluent tubing to join air intake valve with ozone safe tubing
http://i1.tinypic.com/o10her.jpg

Connect ozone safe tubing to ozone safe T connector
http://i1.tinypic.com/o10iys.jpg

Place T connector onto modified air intake valve
http://i1.tinypic.com/o10j68.jpg

Make sure you firmly insert tubes to both ends
http://i1.tinypic.com/o10jdu.jpg

Connect ozone safe tubing to the output of the Sanders unit
http://i1.tinypic.com/o10jmt.jpg

Connect ozone safe air check valve to ozone safe T connector
http://i1.tinypic.com/o10jtk.jpg

Make sure all connections are in place and set the dial on the ozonizer to 25% - 50%
http://i1.tinypic.com/o10k1v.jpg

The sanders unit has a blinking green light in the center that reflects how much ozone is being administered via the rheostat knob
http://i1.tinypic.com/o10kdh.jpg

Set the Coralife luft pump to desired setting; #2 for my system
http://i1.tinypic.com/o10kkh.jpg

[RobReefer]

Wow mike, you have a very nice setup. Do your tangs mess with each other?

[mikeguerrero]

Rob,

Thanks about the setup. About my tangs; I have a total of 6 different variations of tangs, yellow, blue, cheveron, powder blue, tomini, and kole.

None of them fight, just your occasional squable but they all eat in harmony and do respect one another.

I got lucky adding each one week by week without problems... I go by experience not what others have heard...

JMO,

Mike

[RobReefer]

The reason I ask is because I had 3 tangs at one point. A purple, yellow, and a powder. For the most part they were fine. Accept when it came to feeding time. I wound up selling 2 of them to a lfs because of it.

[mikeguerrero]

Rob,

I wanted a purple but it was too late, I had opted and got the yellow so I knew I couldn't get the purple.

I saw a really nice small purple, wish I had the room.

[RobReefer]

I only have the yellow now. I was thinking about maybe trying to add another purple again.

[mnestroy]

I hope its okay to revive this old thread, the information was extremely useless.

I was wondering since so much time has passed, have any of you guys tested using a lower end skimmer (under $75) such as a sea clone specifically for ozone?

I attempted using my Remora Pro but no matter what I did I could not prevent the smell of ozone. (The remora has no good way to cover all the possible places where air can leek out)

[mnestroy]

DOOOH! I can't believe what i wrote,

I meant to say "Extremely useful"

:)

[WILDTHING]

mnestroy, I just finished reading this old thread too and I've decided to inject my Enaly via a maxi jet (through the extra fitting they supply, which is supposed to bring air into the maxi) into a PhosBan reactor full of carbon. Doing it this way tho you'll have to have an Enaly or rig an air pump to the ozone.

I'll post in a couple of days and let you know how it works.

[bryanth73]

wildthing not sure that would do much, there would not be much contact time that way my understanding is the skimmer concentrates the organics and the contact time of the air/ozone mixture is what makes it effective. if your just 'blowing' ozone into a chamber of carbon that carbon will render the ozone ineffective.

[mr.wilson]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8988465#post8988465 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by WILDTHING
mnestroy, I just finished reading this old thread too and I've decided to inject my Enaly via a maxi jet (through the extra fitting they supply, which is supposed to bring air into the maxi) into a PhosBan reactor full of carbon. Doing it this way tho you'll have to have an Enaly or rig an air pump to the ozone.

I'll post in a couple of days and let you know how it works.

Injecting air/ozone into a fluidized bed filter will attach bubbles to the carbon, causing them to float out of the column.

You can inject ozone with a pump venturi, but it is less efficient than doing so with a protein skimmer where the gas is much more stable and has longer dwell/contact time.

Freshwater applications are suitable for this method of introduction, as ozone goes into solution readily. It's typically done in commercial systems with long runs of PVC pipe, with a long contact time. Saltwater has a lot more dissolved solids, so it's ion-rich nature causes small, stable bubbles. These stable bubbles take to long to pop, so air injection should be limited to protein skimmer use.

Using ozone with protein skimmers compromises the integrity of the bubbles, as the bubble surface losses stability. Fractionation is less effective due to the ozone, but overall skimmer efficiency is greatly improved, as organics are oxidized. I can really see a difference in the colour, consistency, and yield of the skimmer when ozone is added.

I believe I read somewhere that it's a fire hazard to expose dry carbon to ozone. Perhaps this is only in great quantities.

A gas reactor is your only other option for ozone introduction. gas reactors are used for Co2, oxygen, and ozone. They are relatively small, plumbed inline or on a bypass, and resemble a trickle filter due to the bioball contact media. The reactor fills and drains in a continual ebb and flow cycle. Some reactors are pressurized enough so that they can maintain a consistent water level at the bottom of the reactor.

[Shark Bait100]

My question is geared for people that have run ozone for one year. I am looking for a replacement generator, and the redsea don't last, and don't get me started on enaly. Does anyone use the bulb type ozone generators? I was interested in them, but was wondering how much electricity they consume compared to a CD unit? Also, Ozotech has a new affordable unit called the posidon Jr, anyone buy that yet?

[mr.wilson]

I don't know if you can even find a bulb unit anymore. I think they still use them for spas.

My Red Sea (plate) unit is still going strong after 8 years. I don't rust the ORP reading, but I don't use the controller anyway.

Are you using a desiccant? If not, that may be the cause of the short life of your unit.

I use the Aqua-Medic ozonizer with the large Red Sea desiccant for new systems, and haven't had any problems yet.

[BigDaddy]

My Red Sea (plate) unit has been going strong for 4 years, no problems.

[RobReefer]

Sharkbait, how long did your red sea last for? Mine only lasted about 8 months and then wouldn't turn on anymore.

[BallaBooyeaH]

Mike, Question about the install on your Deltec skimmer. I am lookig to do the same but wanted to ask a question on the install.
Did you replace the tube from the venturi feed on the re-circulation bump with O3 frendly tubing? SO from say the ehiem up to the air valve?

I am thinking of this - use the O3 frendly T to add the air valve to to controll the air in. Is this correct?

Thanks

Going to dop the same to my AP903. I have the sander 300Mg unit and using a controller as well.

Andrew

[Shark Bait100]

My redsea has been going for 1 year now, but the ozone produced is down to half. when I first bought it, i had it set at around 25-30 and had my orp steady around 350. Now, I have it cranked up to 100 now and can only bearly maintain 320. I also use a large dessicant/air drier. Ultralife still makes bulb type ozone generators.

[Jar*Head]

Guys, thanks for the great thread. i am getting ready add ozone in my 500g system as well.

[TekCat]

REEFEER714, please tell us, how do you plan to set it up?

[redox]

I have an o3 unit but I havent used it now for over a year. I didnt really see any benefits to higher orp so it just hangs on the wall.http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w1/ghgrown/o3.jpgthe thing that is nice about this unit is the built in air dryer that regenerates itself

[Jar*Head]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10139756#post10139756 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by TekCat
REEFEER714, please tell us, how do you plan to set it up?

Hello Tekcat, here is what i have in mind. Please let me know if i need anything else.

Ozone Generator: Ozonetech
Ozone Reactor: MTCPro240D, SR7, CAF12
Controller: AC3 or AC2

Total water volume: 550g
I plan to go with the 200Mg. I will start at 25% and slowly increase. I have been doing research, and read all 3 articles regarding to Ozonizer. The max i would go is 50-75%, i would like to maintain a low dosage at the same time keep my ORP at 350-400 to be safe.

What do you think?
http://www.marinetechnical.com/page9.html

[mr.wilson]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10139762#post10139762 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by redox
I have an o3 unit but I havent used it now for over a year. I didnt really see any benefits to higher orp so it just hangs on the wall.

I guess you need to change your user name then. :)

It's hard to evaluate equipment and methodology. Failure is easy to measure, but success is often hard to identify.

I can't say that I've ever seen a system improve after ozone addition, but I can definitely attest to a decline in health after its' removal.

An elevated redox potential will increase the oxidization rate of your system, but this doesn't translate to a tangible difference in all cases. A decline in bacteria and free- floating algae may be good for a display tank or commercial acclimation system, but it may only rob corals of nutrients in a mariculture application.

In your case, the Rk2 skimmer may lose too much bubble stability to be worth it. If you were to start using it again, it may be more efficient in a gas reactor, or smaller, dedicated skimmer.

[mr.wilson]

Double post

[TekCat]

REEFEER714, sounds like a plan :)

I looked at the website you posted, there are no prices or any indepth info on usage (except for diagrams). Whenever you get to it, please share with us what how much did they charge you for reactor and filters.. and how's it all working for ya.

Reef ON! :)

[Jar*Head]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10142313#post10142313 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by TekCat
REEFEER714, sounds like a plan :)

I looked at the website you posted, there are no prices or any indepth info on usage (except for diagrams). Whenever you get to it, please share with us what how much did they charge you for reactor and filters.. and how's it all working for ya.

Reef ON! :)

Here is some info on the PRO240D reactor
http://www.marinetechnical.com/page6.html

They don't have the instruction manual available yet. But seem like it going to work well. I have trust and confident in MTC PRO products. I called them earlier and here is the price tag on each

PRO240D $350
SR7 $125
CAF $65

I know the price is a little high but we are talking about quality product. cast acrylic tube 1/4"wall are very expensive. I don't mind the cost, i care more about the health of my live stock. I will purchase the setup one i get enough money :D . I will use the eheim to feed the reactor

[TekCat]

thanks, keep posted on how it works out for ya ;)

[Jar*Head]

Sure will. I kinda have a hard time locate Ozonetech website or any store carried their product.

[mr.wilson]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10142518#post10142518 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by REEFER714
Here is some info on the PRO240D reactor
http://www.marinetechnical.com/page6.html

They don't have the instruction manual available yet. But seem like it going to work well. I have trust and confident in MTC PRO products. I called them earlier and here is the price tag on each

PRO240D $350
SR7 $125
CAF $65

I know the price is a little high but we are talking about quality product. cast acrylic tube 1/4"wall are very expensive. I don't mind the cost, i care more about the health of my live stock. I will purchase the setup one i get enough money :D . I will use the eheim to feed the reactor

You can get a hyperbaric reactor like the Aqua-Medic 1000 for under $100.00.

I assume the SR7 and CAF are carbon filters? Once again, that's pretty steep.

[Jar*Head]

Mr Wilson, i like quality build product. Thanks for the advice but i rather spend a little bit more money but i get the quality out of it. Both may work the same but will they last

[mr.wilson]

If you've got the money, it certainly won't hurt.

[TekCat]

One thing still puzzles me. The ozone gas goes through burp line when water level drops. So, before this happens, wont water go through the same line? Or am I missing something?

[Jar*Head]

I wish i could answer that question for you. But i am still learning :).

[Tony Romano]

Is there a packaged ozone reactor that is good?

[snorvich]

Well I have the same setup with an ozotech ozone generator. The reactors are ozone safe which is not necessarily true of all things including some skimmers. By the way, I got the ozone generator from aquarium specialty since the ozotech website was confusing.

[madadi]

im having a hard time finding the rechargeable air drier beads that i can use is a DIY dryer. if someone can point me to a product page that would be great. thanks

[freddie40]

Alright, I am adding Ozone tomorrow to my Tunze 9010 skimmer. I am wondering about running carbon. The best way for me to run the carbon is through section D of my fuge (see attached diagram). Although this means that the ozone will pass though the fuge where a fish and 3 snails reside I am wondering if this is alright, or should I try to run carbon earlier.

http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii43/slats88/Fuge-1.jpg

Thanks for your advice,

Dave

[rekk]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12001982#post12001982 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by madadi
im having a hard time finding the rechargeable air drier beads that i can use is a DIY dryer. if someone can point me to a product page that would be great. thanks


This is where I got rechargeable beads. One bag would fill almost two red sea dryer.

http://www.aquariumspecialty.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=33_61&products_id=209

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Alright, I am adding Ozone tomorrow to my Tunze 9010 skimmer. I am wondering about running carbon. The best way for me to run the carbon is through section D of my fuge (see attached diagram). Although this means that the ozone will pass though the fuge where a fish and 3 snails reside I am wondering if this is alright, or should I try to run carbon earlier.

I would definitely pass the water over carbon before getting to any organisms.

[faded1004]

goign to try out ozone finally, had the parts and now building a sump so want to make some plans...

going to use my ev240 as a reactor (setup external to sump). the air will be covered with the collection cup carbon... i am trying to think of an easy way to pass the water outlet through carbon...

#1, i am thinking may be trying to retunr water to the sump through a filter sock full of carbon?
#2, setup a small return area and throw in a large bag of carbon and hope it catches all the bad stuff?
#3, ask for pictures and copy someone's setup... : )

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I use 3 tightly nested IO salt buckets. The water is added into the second one through a bulkhead through the bottom of the first. Many small holes in the bottom of the top bucket allow air to enter and pass through carbon in it and out to the air.

The wet carbon is in 2 big mesh bags in the second bucket. The water hits the top and runs through the bags, and then through many small holes in the bottom of that second bucket into the third.

The third bucket has a bulkhead through the bottom that directs the water into my sump.

IME, this is cheap and works nearly perfectly, and better than any other method of air and water treatment I can think of. :)

[faded1004]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13750180#post13750180 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Randy Holmes-Farley
I use 3 tightly nested IO salt buckets. The water is added into the second one through a bulkhead through the bottom of the first. Many small holes in the bottom of the top bucket allow air to enter and pass through carbon in it and out to the air.

The wet carbon is in 2 big mesh bags in the second bucket. The water hits the top and runs through the bags, and then through many small holes in the bottom of that second bucket into the third.

The third bucket has a bulkhead through the bottom that directs the water into my sump.

IME, this is cheap and works nearly perfectly, and better than any other method of air and water treatment I can think of. :)

i am going to look for a few identical buckets or similar... do you think the 50g salt mix buckets will handle 1000gph? as mentioned i have an aquac ev 240...

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

1000 gph? No.

I don't think that is an optimal plan for ozone, as your contact time will be incredibly short. I treat my water for about 45 seconds with a 90 gph flow.

[bchbum189]

has any one thought about using this CO2 chamber http://www.championlighting.com/product.php?productid=17309&cat=349&page=1
as a ozone chamber? Long contact time and very very cheap so if its not ozone safe, then replacing it yearly wouldnt be a heartbreak.

[Luis A M]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13750180#post13750180 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Randy Holmes-Farley
I use 3 tightly nested IO salt buckets. The water is added into the second one through a bulkhead through the bottom of the first. Many small holes in the bottom of the top bucket allow air to enter and pass through carbon in it and out to the air.

The wet carbon is in 2 big mesh bags in the second bucket. The water hits the top and runs through the bags, and then through many small holes in the bottom of that second bucket into the third.

The third bucket has a bulkhead through the bottom that directs the water into my sump.

IME, this is cheap and works nearly perfectly, and better than any other method of air and water treatment I can think of. :)
Randy,are you using a skimmer or some other kind of ozone reactor?Cause you have water plus air coming in your carbon contactor...
In a skimmer,air escapes from the top and must be processed there...

Another question,I am setting an O3 system with a Red Sea Plus and a RS Berlin skimmer,hooked to a needle Octopus pump.I don´t know if O3 treated air must be forced to the pump air intake with an air pump,or just let it be aspirated by the pump.I should measure air volumes in either way,but that´s not easy :confused:

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Randy,are you using a skimmer or some other kind of ozone reactor?Cause you have water plus air coming in your carbon contactor...
In a skimmer,air escapes from the top and must be processed there...

I use the DIY tubing reactor for ozone that I describe in the second article below. The nested buckets allow air to escape from the top, but using it with a skimmer may be a bit tricky due to the larger amount of air than the ozone/air source itself for a normal reactor. That's another reason I'm not a fan of using skimmers for ozone. :

Ozone and the Reef Aquarium, Part 1: Chemistry and Biochemistry
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-03/rhf/index.php

Ozone and the Reef Aquarium, Part 2: Equipment and Safety
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-04/rhf/index.php

Ozone and the Reef Aquarium, Part 3: Changes in a Reef Aquarium upon Initiating Ozone
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-05/rhf/index.php


Another question,I am setting an O3 system with a Red Sea Plus and a RS Berlin skimmer,hooked to a needle Octopus pump.I don´t know if O3 treated air must be forced to the pump air intake with an air pump,or just let it be aspirated by the pump.I should measure air volumes in either way,but that´s not easy

If the venturi effect is strong enough, you might not need a pump, but I expect the ozone generator itself will be a substantial air block on the air flow, and a pump is usually necessary.

[Luis A M]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13755724#post13755724 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Randy Holmes-Farley

Another question,I am setting an O3 system with a Red Sea Plus and a RS Berlin skimmer,hooked to a needle Octopus pump.I don´t know if O3 treated air must be forced to the pump air intake with an air pump,or just let it be aspirated by the pump.I should measure air volumes in either way,but that´s not easy

If the venturi effect is strong enough, you might not need a pump, but I expect the ozone generator itself will be a substantial air block on the air flow, and a pump is usually necessary.
I set the O3 system working.The Venturi funnel was removed because I am using a 1,000 L/hr turbine ("needle"propeller) pump.In these pumps air is sucked at the water intake and worked into a very fine mix,without a significant decrease of water flow.
Connecting the air intake to the "Red Sea"ozonizer and silica beads cartridge did not produce any obvious restriction of air flow.But when I pumped air into the system with an air pump,mixing of air/water ceased completely,with the air escaping thru the pump intake.So this kind of pumps have a strong enough suction power and don´t accept forced air.

Another interesting fact:While I was running the Red Sea skimmer without ozone,absolutely no foam was produced.This didn´t surprise me,as the system is skimmed with a large Aqua C.After all,the Red Sea was intended only as an O3 contact chamber.But few minutes after feeding it with ozone,it began producing a dark dense skimmate.Probing that O3 enhances the skimming function.

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

It will be interesting to see if you find it increases skimmate long term. Many people report it decreases their skimmate. I discuss that here:

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-03/rhf/index.php#11

Oxidation of Organics by Ozone: Skimming and Nutrients
Another result of breaking some organics into smaller, more hydrophilic bits (Figure 3 and 4) is that it often increases their bacterial biodegradability.27-29 Therefore, the ozone may need only to start the degradation process, and bacteria in the aquarium can finish off the organics by uptake and metabolism. Large humic acid molecules, for example, are converted by ozonation into smaller fragments that are more readily taken up and metabolized.29 This process may, in fact, be why some aquarists report drops in nutrient levels after initiating ozone. It is not because ozone directly impacts either nitrate or phosphate (it does not react directly with either), but the newly bioavailable organics may drive bacterial growth, just as adding ethanol (e.g., vodka) or sugar might. The growing bacteria need nitrogen and phosphate, and if they satisfy those needs by taking up nitrate and phosphate, the levels of those nutrients in the water may drop. That effect, however, may be only temporary as the initial burst of new bioavailable organics winds down, and a new stable state is reached with lower levels of organic material and similar levels of inorganic nutrients.

Skimming is a complex process that has many subtleties. The previous sections have discussed how ozonation modifies organic molecules , and we can then extrapolate how those processes impact skimming. Years ago it was widely claimed that ozone use increased skimming, and I claimed then that I didn't see how that could happen directly. Most organic compounds likely to be found in significant quantities in a reef aquarium will become more polar and likely less skimmable after it reacts with ozone. Figure 3, for example, shows how oleic acid (readily skimmed) gets converted into more polar compounds that will not be so readily skimmed as they will not be as strongly attracted to an air water interface.

A small portion of organic molecules in reef aquarium water may become more skimmable if, for example, they become more hydrophobic after reaction with ozone. They may also become more skimmable if they were totally hydrophobic before ozone and were transformed into molecules with polar and nonpolar parts (called amphiphilic) which more readily absorb onto an air water interface and are skimmed out.

Are there other ways that skimming might be increased besides these two processes? I hypothesized in a previous article that it was due to the growth of bacteria (either in the water itself, or bound to surfaces), and possibly also the release of new organic molecules as they grew, that caused the effects some aquarists observed.

It seems as if the tide of opinion has turned, however, and most aquarists now claim that the amount of skimmate is reduced significantly when using ozone. Many claim that the collection of skimmate has nearly stopped in their aquaria when starting ozone. Why the difference compared to past opinion? That's hard to say, and may depend on the types and qualities of the skimmers available now compared to years ago, as well as changes in other husbandry practices. In any case, the overriding experience of many aquarists today is that skimming is reduced, and the presumed reason is that the organics are being made chemically less skimmable by ozone. The remaining organics would then be removed more by bacterial processes than before the initiation of ozone in the same aquarium.

[Oshkosh]

I thought I would jump in and share what I've built. I have a Red Sea plus 100 ozonizer along with an Aqua-Medic 1000 as it’s reactor (I emailed the company and they assured me that it's ozone safe). I'm also using a ViaAqua Aquarium Water Pump, a 200 gph pump to feed the reactor (hopefully it's not to powerful). For the air discharge of the reactor I removed the beads of a red sea air dryer and put in some carbon. The water discharge from the reactor goes through some activated carbon before entering the sump.
I'm using this setup in conjunction with Vodka dosing, both mine and the tanks, and seems to be working fine.
I'm open to any suggestions and opinions.

[wolf pup]

Oshkosh, I was wondering if the Aqua-Medic would work - the use of an air dryer as a carbon filter is very ingenious. Are you monitoring ORP?

[Oshkosh]

Thanks, I've really just started within the last few days but I'm monitoring the ORP through the ozonizer.

[Luis A M]

Randy,I have modified my set-up and I am now pumping air plus ozone thru the old venturi air intake (without venturi now).Details can be seen at: http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=13815154#post13815154
The thing is that no matter what I do,ORP remains low.So I suspect that the Aquazone is not producing ozone.How could I confirm?.Testing the water outlet with a OTO reactive?.Or a more specific test is advisable?.

On a different note,I liked your ozone reactor.Cheap,simple and unheard of.My brother made a similar one for injecting CO2 in his FW planted tank.It was so efficient that all the gas was diluted inside the hose.Of course the ozone-air mix won´t dissapear,so how to evaluate the needed contact time/hose length required? :confused:

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

What is the ORP with and without ozone?

As long as it went up substantially, I don;'t think the final value is important since the goal is clear water, not a specific ORP value. :)

[Luis A M]

It is now 170mV,same with than without.But I made a definite test;smelled the exit line for ozone and nothing came.So I have to conclude that my new Aquazone is not producing ozone:(

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Yes, you should be easily able to smell it with just air running through it.

[GAW]

Funny how our own senses are sometimes the best instruments. I'm new to Ozone and have all the bells and whistles for my Ozone generation. I noticed and even experimented so there is no doubt in my mind about the following:
If I crank my Ozotech above "2" on the dial I cannot smell Ozone through the carbon and the ORP doesn't rise very much, but my Six Line Wrasse will go nuts and act like its on a crack binge bouncing off the glass within a few minutes. When I crank the Ozone down, the wrasse calms down within 15 or 20 minutes.

[Luis A M]

Interesting.Randy,is an OTO reactive useful for detecting ozone?.This is what the Red Sea test uses?

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

OTO? ozone T? oxidant?

[Luis A M]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13833378#post13833378 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Randy Holmes-Farley
OTO? ozone T? oxidant?
A common reactive for chlorine,sold for swimming pools and such.I think it goes for Ortho Toluidin something.I read somewhere that it reacts with other strong oxidants like ozone.

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I am not familiar with an OTO chlorine test, but a typical chlorine test kit is suitable. i discuss it here:


http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-04/rhf/index.php#2

from it (a bit down from the linked location):
A chlorine or ozone test kit can be used to detect ozone and its byproducts in seawater since these compounds will react with the reagent in a standard chlorine kit. When using a Hach CN-70 chlorine kit (using the directions for either free or total chlorine), I found experimental values ranging from 0.02 to 0.5 ppm "chlorine equivalents" in different setups that I tried, not just varying air flow). Since such kits (which are based on a method called DPD or DDPD) detect a variety of different highly oxidizing species (hypobromite, ozone, etc.), it must be remembered that it is not an indication of just the total free ozone remaining. Nevertheless, the convention is to report all of these highly oxodizing species as if they were a single chemical (unless noted otherwise in a published study). The units can be chlorine equivalents or ozone equivalents, with 1 ppm chlorine equivalent equal to 0.7 ppm ozone equivalents (that value simply being the ratio of the molecular weight of O3 (48 g/mole) divided by the molecular weight of Cl2 (70.9 g/mole). Note that a test method using indigo blue (indigo trisulfonate) tests for ozone only, and not the byproducts, so do not choose that method unless you only want ozone measurements.

[paul17]

please tell me all of the components of good quality and safe i would need for a 700 to a 1000 gal system... brand new to ozone thanks

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I discuss equipment issues here:

Ozone and the Reef Aquarium, Part 2: Equipment and Safety
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-04/rhf/index.php

[paul17]

thanx

[mr.wilson]

When you're selecting equipment, in addition to using a carbon filter to remove residual (airborne) ozone, you should try to purchase an ozone generator with a built-in timer that allows it to run for periods of time, or run it on an external timer. This way you can assure you aren't producing too much ozone for delicate marine organisms, as controllers are costly and fallible. Alternatively, you could use ozone only at night when you are not in the room and fish are not active. A higher redox potential in the evening will compensate for lower PH values and dissolved oxygen levels caused by photosynthetic organisms.

In general, hobbyists fall behind in changing the air drier, so ozone production is greatly diminished. Coupled with an aquarium rich in organics, residual ozone should be minimal. An efficient method of introducing it to the system water helps. Some small skimmers don't allow much dwell time, so you may experience higher airborne levels of ozone.

Your aquarium isn't the only place you need to be careful with. Photocopiers and laser printers produce 0.05ppm ozone, and 0.5ppm in some instances. Many copiers have built-in carbon filters, but nobody ever changes them, so they quickly become useless mechanical filters. Small offices with a few copiers and printers running have significant levels of ozone. It's yet another reason to work your way up from copy boy:)

[dickenscd]

Before using ozone, my H & S A300 skimmer used to collect good quantity of skimmate, as shown on the picture, the skimmate was collected for one week.

http://i509.photobucket.com/albums/s337/dickenscd/80813.jpg

Two month ago, I hooked a Red Sea Aquazone 200 Ozonizer into one of the air intake of Ehaim pinwheel pumps on my skimmer, I found the water clarity is greatly improved, all the corals (including SPS) are thriving, but the skimmer almost collected nothing, it almost stopped working. I start to question why I need a skimmer if it collects nothing, and I am wondering if my tanks can do well by using ozonizer without a skimmer.



James

[mr.wilson]

Ozone destabilizes bubbles, causing them to pop prematurely. Ozone use decreases the amount collected by protein skimmers, but it increases the efficacy of the protein skimmer. If you are stuck on the idea that protein skimming is paramount, you can use a smaller (cheap or used) protein skimmer as an ozone reactor. Protein skimmers make very efficient ozone reactors, but there are other types of gas reactors. Many implement a column filled with bioballs that fills and drains on a siphon and siphon break system.

If it was my choice, I would stick with what you have. It's working as it should.

This thread sums up a few studies on protein skimmer efficacy. http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1208815&perpage=25&pagenumber=4

[Tony Romano]

James - Your electrical is a tad frightening! Keep skimmer, if nothing else as backup.

[dickenscd]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15229884#post15229884 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by mr.wilson
Ozone destabilizes bubbles, causing them to pop prematurely. Ozone use decreases the amount collected by protein skimmers, but it increases the efficacy of the protein skimmer. If you are stuck on the idea that protein skimming is paramount, you can use a smaller (cheap or used) protein skimmer as an ozone reactor. Protein skimmers make very efficient ozone reactors, but there are other types of gas reactors. Many implement a column filled with bioballs that fills and drains on a siphon and siphon break system.

If it was my choice, I would stick with what you have. It's working as it should.

This thread sums up a few studies on protein skimmer efficacy. http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1208815&perpage=25&pagenumber=4

I don't know how the ozone can increase the efficiency of the skimmer if my skimmer almost collects nothing after adding ozone.

James

[mr.wilson]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15235858#post15235858 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by dickenscd
I don't know how the ozone can increase the efficiency of the skimmer if my skimmer almost collects nothing after adding ozone.

James

Protein skimmer efficiency is increased by reduction of TOC (total organic carbon - particulate & dissolved) by ozone, not by an increased amount of liquid collected. As you have noticed "water quality is greatly improved". I'm talking about overall performance of the H&S A300 as a filtration device.

If you disconnected the two closed loop fractionator pumps and filled the skimmer body with a bag of carbon, you would also increase the performance of the skimmer as a filtration device :)

Take a look at this thread about protein skimmer performance benefits & limitations. Protein skimmers can only remove 25% of the TOC in your aquarium.

[wooden_reefer]

Isn't foaming in the skimmer promoted by more longer chains of amino acids or some other long molecules?

[gonewyld]

I want to hook up Ozone to my tank but I am quite apprehensive cause i dont want to ruin my skimmer or die..LOL

Does anyone here have DIY pics that will show how to make a good chamber?

[hellbliss]

hey anthony ive got a question. i have a room in my tank that seems to have low pH problem everytime i am in the room. when there are 5 or 6 people in my room the pH drops to 7.7. when nobody is around pH is usually 8.2 other parameters like kH calcium and magnesium are checked weekly and always in the optimum range.

so ive zoomed in to increased carbon dioxide levels in the room causing a low pH. so my question is this. will running ozone in my tank increase the oxygen levels and decrease the carbon dioxide level so that the pH stays constant?

[mr.wilson]

hey anthony ive got a question. i have a room in my tank that seems to have low pH problem everytime i am in the room. when there are 5 or 6 people in my room the pH drops to 7.7. when nobody is around pH is usually 8.2 other parameters like kH calcium and magnesium are checked weekly and always in the optimum range.

so ive zoomed in to increased carbon dioxide levels in the room causing a low pH. so my question is this. will running ozone in my tank increase the oxygen levels and decrease the carbon dioxide level so that the pH stays constant?

Ozone (O3) will not decrease the atmospheric or tank Co2 level. Atmospheric air is comprised mostly of nitrogen gas. Adding an O2 reactor will help a little, but your resources would be best spent venting the room... or handing out gas masks to your guests :)

[Faisal1976us]

Is it important to use air pump if i wont to connect ozone generator to skimmer ?

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Yes, you generally need to force the air through the generator. They often do not have easy air flow through them.

[frank88]

You can use the ozonator without putting the carbon on the lid of the skimmer and the exit of the discharge?

[jakano]

I have a question on this subject. I have yet to be succesful using ozone for a couple of reasons. I have a large Beckett skimmer I was injecting the ozone through a small hole in the air intake. I have a bag of carbon that the skimmers water exits into and I have 3 eheim carbon pads on the top of the skimmers collection cup to collect excess ozone from the air. My problem is that when I run the ozone it somehow makes the ph in my calcium reactor never drop and the ph controller always stays open so it is constantly dumping Co2 into the calcium reactor. I have all of my equipment in a 150 gallon rubermaid sump so they all share the same water. Is there something I need to do to make this not happen? Also it seems that when I am running the ozone I do still smell some in my tiny fishroom even though I have an exhaust fan always running to vent the area. Should I just run the ozone with a timer so it only runs a few times a day? I use an Enaly 200mg an hour unit. The unit is an older one and it actually says 200-300 mg and hour so I'm not exactly sure the amount it produces. My skimmer also has a very decreased amount of skimate production when I use the ozone too. Any help would be appreciated as I feel I could really benefit from the use of ozone.