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Rowdy
09/27/2000, 05:22 PM
Hey everyone,

I am looking for any of you who have had any significant growth of Brown Wafer Algae on their live rock. Any information is appreciated, I really don't know too much about it. Can any of you think of a constant factor being present where this algae thrives? I think it was on the rock when I introduced it, now it is expanding and I am afraid, very afraid.

Thanks

h2oBoy
09/27/2000, 07:37 PM
Rowdy,
I have a two and a half year old, 75 gal. reef setup that, unfortunately, has the brown wafer algae on approx. 2/3 of the live rock. The tank originally had none, so I obviously imported it by accident on a piece of rock added after the setup.

Here are my tank parameters:
- berlin skimmer run by rio 3100; operates 24/7
- 4 bulb 110 watt VHO lighting; 2 actinic and 2 sunlight bulbs
- nitrate, nitrite, and phosphate measure at nondectable levels (i.e. zero based on my inexpensive test kits)
- use RO water
- only supplement with kalkwasser
- feed frozen brine shrimp and spirulina flakes once per day
- inhabitants: yellow tang, percula clown, royal gramma, pygmy angel, mandarin fish, convict goby, 3 cleaner shrimp, emarald crab, sally lightfoot crab, variety of snails (astrea, strombus, trochus, turbo), and blue and scarlet hermits

I've been racking my brain trying to find others who have battled the brown wafer algae and won, but have had no success. In my case, none of the snails or other algae eaters will touch the stuff.

My next step in trying to fight the problem, is to move up to a RO/DI water unit. I understand that the DI component of will remove phosphate. Granted, my test kit tells me there is no phosphate, but the inexpensive kits are notorious for being inaccurate. Since the algae has to be feeding on something, I'm just taking a leap in faith and assuming this is the problem.

Ok, I'll stop rambling... Maybe you can provide your tank parameters, and we can find a common factor that we may share.

HTH

6-line
09/27/2000, 10:16 PM
Hey,
I guess I'll chime in "My name is 6-line and I have Lobophora variagata." Or, Brown wafer algae.
I hate it. It's starting to cover my rockwork; in the shade, in the sun. It's growing on my coralline which is on the back wall--it's everywhere and I dispise it.
Started off a a small brown patch on a piece of Fiji. Should have stripped it away then.
Icecap 660 w/4 48" tubes.
55 gallon, 75 lbs of rock.
Yellow Tang, 6-line, pair of ocellaris clowns, banggai cardinal
Sipedon skimmer run 24/7. Kalk added with makeup, makeup supplied by a Tap water Purifier (deionized resin cart.)
I recently employed the technique of filling empty areas of my 10 gallon sump with macroalgae (caulerpa and sargassum) in an attempt to rob some of the nutrients away from the brown algae. This stuff isn't readily removed, but it's easier to pull off when it has matured and expanding upward along the edges. It's described as a nuisance brown macroalgae common in the intertidal reef zone in nutrient rich waters. The taste is supposed to be noxious to herbivores (a. . .duh, they don't eat it) However, my yellow tang does seem to nip at it; I check out the abandoned and nipped upon area for evidence of consumption, but it appears the same.
Lets all join lobophora annoymous and get rid of this algae by pulling our wits together.

6-line
09/28/2000, 08:17 AM
^

h2oBoy
09/28/2000, 04:46 PM
6-line,

I'm with you. It would be great to find a common factor that others with the brown wafer algae have, and more importantly, how they rid themselves of the problem. Ironically, I've only seen 2 or 3 posts pertaining to the algae, and they basically were asking the same thing we have (i.e. how to get rid of it). Evidently this type of algae must not be as prevalent, as say hair algae.

Now, as for addressing the problem, here are some of my thoughts, for what little their worth. In stating the obvious, we have excess nutrients in our systems that are feeding the algae. As far as nutrient import is concerned, my only imputs are the frozen brine shrimp/spirulina flakes I feed, the RO water I use for topping-off, and waste products from my fish.

I feed once per day, and only enough for the fish to consume in a couple of minutes. To be more specific, the chuck of brine shrimp is approx. 1/2"x1/2"x1/8" and I add a "pinch" of spirulina flakes. For a 75 gal. tank, I wouldn't consider this overfeeding, although I'm just guessing. I don't want to underfeed or starve the fish, though, so reducing the amount of food isn't practical unless I get rid of some fish.

Speaking of getting rid of some fish, I have considered that option to reduce the bio load. I've gotten attached to them, though, so this method of eliminating nutrient sources will be a last resort.

I'm also a little suspicious about my water supply. Coincidently, that's something we have in common since we both live in the greater Cincinnati area. In Lebanon, where I live, we have very hard water. So much so, that I have a water softener to prevent mineral buildup. I also use a Sears brand RO unit to generate my tank water. After reading the owners manual, though, it evidently only removes a max of 90% of the total dissolved solids (TDS). From what I've heard, this isn't too great compared to a higher end RO unit like a Spectrapure. RO units alone also don't remove phosphate from the water. It requres an RO/DI unit to do this. So again, I suspect my unit may be providing great drinking water, but the purity may not be up to par for using in a reef tank. Fortunatley, my brother is sending me a Kent RO/DI unit he's no longer using, so I'm going to do a comparison of the water quality between the two. Rather than use the inexpensive test kits, though, I'm going to send the sample to work with my wife who has access to an analytical lab. Hopefully, this new unit will make a dent in the problem.

Well, this is all for now. Maybe you have some additional thoughts you'd like to add or speculate about.

Mike

6-line
09/28/2000, 10:26 PM
Hey,
H20boy--
I have an addition to the nutrient thing. I apparently add even more food substance/nutrients than you, because I do dose (or add/feed) my tank with Instant Algae (Tahatian Blend)and Golden Pearls about once a week, occasionally twice. I feed my free living LPS's (Trachyphyllia, Plerogyra, Cynarina) an occasional piece of shrimp. I have decided to cut back on this if not wait it out a few weeks. I feed the fish once a day, alternating between Formula 1 and frozen brine, about as much as you do being careful not to overfeed. I can't imagine not feeding them every day, they seem starved when I do feed them. The Tang gets occasional strips of Seaweed Selects, but probably not as much as he should get, but he seems happy and he does graze on the Lobophora although I doubt he's getting much. here's a link to some info on this algae:
http://www.globaldialog.com/~jrice/algae_page/lobophora.htm

H20Boy, BTW, several of us Reefers in the Cinti area are re-forming a reefkeeping society. E-mail me and I'll get you in the group list. We trade frags, info and hopefully will have get togethers/meetings in the future.
Address--toddsreef@aol.com

Rowdy
09/29/2000, 05:05 AM
Okay,

My system right now is as follows;

approx. 1 yr old enviroment, 55 gallon 100+- lbs. cured Figi with good coraline growth, 1/4" or so fine sand (petstore stuff I dunno), no sump, custom skimmer by Ron's Saltwater Heaven, Hagen 802's for circ., aqua clear 500 w/ sponge only or nothing for extra circ at times, 4'tubes 2 x Actinic Blue and 2 x daylight, kalk drip 24/7, oh yeah skimmer powered by Magnum 350 cannister with occasional chemi-pure and blue sleeve, 1 medium Lollipop Tang, 1 Smaller Hippo Tang, 1 peppermint shrimp, 6-12 snails of varying types, few dozen or less blue legged hermitts, good worm and pod populations, about a billion baby snails on back glass and growing, anchor, frogspawn, xenia, nepthia, candy cane, assorted polyps on rock, and some other creatures I haven't id'ed as of yet.
Water is optimum, calc is 400-450, ph is 8.2-8.8 in recent months, weekly changes @ 10%, Instant ocean, Kent's Iodine, Strontium, and Calcium (given to me is why)lightly dosed daily, kalkwasser daily constant drip, that,s it.
Oh 12hr photo with 1st and last Act only.

This reef system has been great with few problems other than some nusiance algae as normal. I do feed this tank heavy with various foods daily and I feed the coral weekly and directly with steamed seafood ground in it's juices frozen then thawed and bastered onto corals. I'm sure this adds a ton of nutrients into the system, but I had the brown before this and my skimmer works great, I get alot of almost black skimate daily,it's a little greener when I run it wet before a water change and it stinks like hell so I know it's the real deal. I am ready to chuck this $7 per lb rock if I cant stop this algae from spreding, I really hate it. Oh, the tiny baby snail seem like they are maybe grazing on it, but I can't see any progress on their part, they are too small to really see well.
I suspect phosphates are feeding this, but it looks similar to coralline where it is hugging the rock surface tightly and is firmly attached if not enamored, I wonder does this stuff feed in competition with coraline (same things) and whether nutrient starvation would really work? I dunno, I might just pull the rock myself, but I'd hate to do that and wind up with more elsewhere. With the lack of success stories responding I am becoming discouraged. Any ideas?

Thanks for all of the responses! Hope we can get somewhere with this.

6-line
09/29/2000, 06:53 AM
Rowdy,
It seems a bit drastic to pull the rock--you mentioned you have 100+ pounds of it, that's a lot of rock to replace!
I have a sufficent skimmer as well (Sipedon Maelstrom powered by Mag 7).
This algae isn't necessarily classed as a microalgae, say like hair algae or something similiar, but more like a macroalgae like Caulerpa and Sargassum. Nonetheless, it's still a nuisance algae. You seem to be the heaviest feeder amounst us (what is a Lollipop Tang, BTW?) But I don't know how much that emans as far as a cause because h20boy feeds lightly. I was curious when you said your skimmer is powered by a Magnum 350--you mean the canister filter? How does that work?
Nutrient starvation and export seem like a viable method of algae reduction; whether or not it accomplishes the task is up to time. Every thing I have read (not much) have specified this algae's presence in nutient-rich systems and also in recently cycled tanks. My tank has been cycled over a year, same with yours and h20boy. This algae doesn't seem to mind light starvation because I have patches of it
growing in the shade and under ledges where little light is present.
So, where do we stand from here?

h2oBoy
09/29/2000, 07:33 AM
Rowdy and 6-Line,

I don't want to beat this topic to death, but last night I did a little reading and research on phosphates since they are a primary factor in causing algae problems. Here are more of my thoughts....

I have a copy of "The Reef Aquarium, Vol. 1" by Sprung and Delbeek, and on pgs 262-265 there's some good info on phosphate (PO4) chemistry and reduction. In a nutshell, and liberally translating/quoting from the book, PO4 exists in both organic and inorganic forms. If readily available in organic forms, it can lead to massive algae blooms. The inorganic forms have limited occurrence in the water since it is quickly consumed by plants, and readily blows off into the atmosphere as aerosol from the bubbling action skimmers. PO4 is also an essential component of living tissue, so it isn't possible to eliminate it entirely from a tank unless the tank is literally devoid of life (wouldn't be much to look at, would it?).

Trying to measure the levels of PO4 in the tank, for practical purposes, is a moot point. Evidently, the test kits most of us use only measure for inorganic PO4. Consequently, a low or nondectable measurement of PO4 by a kit can be misleading since you may still have excess levels of organic PO4 that feed the algae. I suspect this may be part of the probem in my case.

The challenge then becomes finding a balance of PO4 where where excess levels leading to algae problems are eliminated. According to Sprung and Delbeek, the primary input source of PO4 to most tanks is the food we add for the fish, corals, etc... Consequently, one direct way to reduce the PO4 load is to reduce the amount of food we add to the tank. In my case, and I suspect both of yours', this isn't practical unless we're going to get rid of some of the fish, corals, etc from our tanks. Otherwise, the reduced feeding might lead to starvation not only of the fish and corals, but also of the beneficial organisms we've established in our sandbeds.

A second significant source of the PO4 is the makeup water we use. This is one area where we can definitely make a difference. As mentioned before, in the near future I'm going to be moving up to an RO/DI unit which should help reduce any PO4 in my makeup water. Since I'm getting the unit for free, it's also an inexpensive option other than the cost of maintining the filters. I'll let you know how this works out. Particularly if I can get my wife to do a comparison test of my RO vs. RO/DI water.

Other options I found involve exporting PO4 from the tank. One that I'm in the process of trying is developing a deeper sand bed. Like you Rowdy, I currently have only a shallow sand bed. A 1/2" depth in my case. Dr. Ron S. and others advocate beds of several inches, which when populated with numerous organisms contribute to reducing detritious, therefore reduce breakdown of oragnics into readily available PO4. I've even talked to some reefers who have sandbeds as deep as 6.5" !! Gradually, over the period of the next couple of months I'm going to build up to approx. 3-4". Again, I'll let you know what happens.

Improved protein skimming also helps to reduce both forms of PO4. I currently run a HOB Red Sea Berlin located in my sump. Because of the cost, I don't see myself upgrading to one of the high end skimmers (Aqua-C, Reef Devil, etc..) anytime soon. So, until I win the lottery or I manage to sneak it by my wife, this option isn't availble to me :)

Adding a refugium, or converting a sump into a refugium, is another option. An external sand bed with macro algae can be used here to export a variety of nutrients including PO4. Here again, space limitions and a cost limit this option for me :(

Lastly, as alluded to before, there's the option of reducing the bio load of the tank by removing some of the fish, etc.. This would reduce the need for feeding the quantity I do, therefore reducing the PO4 introduced to the tank. I've gotten pretty attached to them, though, so this is a last resort. From a practical standpoint too, this isn't physically easy to do. The little buggers are quick to head for crevices and holes in the liverock when the dreaded net enters the water.

To wrap this tedious, rambling effort up, the spread of the wafer algae over the last several months has stabilized in my tank. Granted, it still covers 1/2 to 2/3 of the rock, but it's not progressing now. In fact, in a couple of areas, it has periodically receeded slightly. So, the import and export of nutrients including PO4 have evidently balanced out. Now I just need to implement ways to reduce the quantities and watch for the results. Given the fact that I've gotten used to the look of the algae and it's no longer spreading, I've got patience on my side. Now it's just a process of carefully monitoring visual changes in the tank as I proceeed.

HTH

Mike

6-line
09/29/2000, 11:15 AM
Okay,
So we're beating this topic to death, but I see us as a minority in this particular algae problem--most people complain of dinoflagellates and hair and cyanobacteria. At least were beating a different horse. ;).
My sand bed is 1-1/2 inches deep at best, and I don't plan on increasing it until I upgrade to a 90 when I buy my house (thus ensuring I won't have to move it :eek: ). I recognise the benefits of the DSB and I'm sure it will help in certain aspects, but doesn't it just aid in denitrification and not necessarily nutrient/PO4 removal? How does the DSB remove the PO4?
H20Boy, what type of water do you use now--you mentioned going to a RO unit, but you also mentioned used used RO. I use a deionization cartrige, which is suppose to remove everything. Than again, it's difficult to tell if it's doing exactly that and I will eventually be upgrading to a RO unit in the future.
BTW, what about the Reefers Club, h20boy, did you get that in my last post?

Removing fish is out of the question for me as well. I will continue to feed the Instant Algae, but very sparingly. I have noticed that when the Lobophora mature beyond the inital 'tight sheet' stage, it does begin to flake up and that is when it's most vulnerable for removal, either by tangs or fingernails. I had a section that covered a live rock colony of zoanthids and eventually the zoanthids broke free and the algae chipped away. I have seen pictures taken on reefs where there is evidence of our algae covering rocks, so i guess one could say that it's just another part of our biotype/ecosystem and it'll run it's course. Although not as desirable and aesthetically pleasing to the eye as coralline, it is natural and not exactly coined as a stereotypical 'nuisance algae'it is part of of systems nonetheless.

h2oBoy
09/29/2000, 02:56 PM
6-Line,

My rambling replies are probably responsible for the confusion :)

In response to your last questions, I currently am using a Sears brand household RO unit. It does not have a DI cartridge as part of it. Based on what I've randomly read and heard from others, the "household" type RO units provide great drinking water, but don't remove as high a % of total dissolved solids as say a Spectrapure unit. RO units also do not remove PO4. You have to have a DI cartridge to do this. Consequently, I will be getting a Kent RO/DI unit from my brother to try out.

As far as the DSB's removing PO4, I'm relying solely on what I read in The Marine Reef Aquarium, "The detrivores also play a key role in substrate management....the little crustaceans multiply well in the substrates, as do numerous species of polychaete worms that feed on particulate matter. These organisms all play a role in the reduction of available PO4 in the system, and prevent the sand from becoming a dead muck zone...". I won't claim to understand the specific chemistry or biology involved. I'm just hoping Mr. Sprung and Delbeek know what they're talking about...

Oh, and yes, I'll e-mail you about the reef club. It sounds like a great idea, and I'd definitely be interesting in getting involved.

Mike

JohnL
09/29/2000, 05:23 PM
<i>Tagged for the archives</i>

Rhodophyta
09/29/2000, 05:48 PM
H2Oboy, My cousin lives in Lebanon, OH, too and he has a reef tank. I can't remember how big, 175 or something really large.

I assume everybody is talking about the form that looks like plain potato chips, no ridges, no barbeque seasoning. I think you might discourage or at least inconvenience this relative of kelp and sargassum weed in three steps. Increase light intensity gradually. Add more current-making devices to the aquarium. Add competitors such as Caulerpa, Ulva, Dictosphaeria and Gracilaria. I used to have Ceramium nitens which might be an ideal competitor since it grows all over another algae, like ivy climbing all over a tree. Although the algae underneath never seemed harmed, its growth must have been affected. I never had any luck maintaining Lobophora, or Padina either, in a tank with a variety of other algae and macroalgae. Anecdotal, of course.

Rowdy
10/03/2000, 04:30 AM
First, thank you everyone for your imput, I have been away from my comp for a few days and am amazed to see this thread is so big.
6-line, my skimmer is an air driven DIY type, 3" pvc chamber about 4' tall running on 2 3" airstones powered by a tetratec deep water air pump and the magnum 350 (yes cannister or convertible) takes water from the tank and discharges into the chamber of the skimmer thus displacing other water back into the tank. I use the disconnect valves to slow it down so that I don't get too many bubbles and the water has longer exposure times to the air column. It works real well. I got it from Ron's Saltwater Heaven http://www.saltwaterheaven.com. If you ever see his tanks in person, you'll know why I have complete faith in these skimmers, they really produce.
Oh, about taking out the rock, I meant the piece that is growing the algae in question, I'll slap together a quick webpage if I can steal a minute sometime soon and publish a few pics. That's one of those things I keep meaning to get to. Kind of like finishing my sump, or building a new hood, or working on my truck, or going fishing, or getting a few hours sleep each night, I'll get to it.
Hey everyone, I am going to review this entire thread and see if I can come up with something, thanks for all of your input folks!

Rowdy
10/03/2000, 04:36 AM
http://saltwaterheaven.com/

6-line
10/03/2000, 06:36 AM
Hey
One of the things that irritate me most about this stuff is that it has the audacity to grow on my coraline already growing on the back wall. The snails can't remove this stuff. The Lobophora in my tank hasn't reached the 'wafer/potato chip' texture yet. When it first starts on a section it is the flat, semi-encrusting brown mat with the ultrafine/nearly transparent hairs growing on it. Only after it has enlarged and matured does it seem to peel up on the edges.
Suffice it to say, I'm reaching my flashpoint regarding this stuff. I lost my Cherub Angel last week, and now only my Yellow Tang remains as a herbivore, and the lack of grazing is evident. I checked for phosphates yesterday doing th DryTab test, and I can't remember how it was measured on the test kit, but it is two color levels up from 0, so their presence is obvious. I wonder exactly how much p03/4 the tap water purifier actually removes. I know the cartriger isn't depleted yet, I checked the color beforehand. I wish there was an animal that just plowed through this stuff.
Any thoughts about one of those Tuxedo urchins?

Rhodophyta
10/03/2000, 04:50 PM
I wish you luck in trying to find a herbivore that specializes in eating this plant. From reading I understand it's about the only macroalgae that survives in heavily grazed subtidal areas. (Marine Plants of the Caribbean, by Littler, Littler, Bucher, & Norris)

chuck
10/04/2000, 02:10 PM
I too have a lobophora varirgata problem. Mine is finally moving to the wafer like stage. It has been spreading slowly and gradually around my tank in isolated spots. I have seen some of my scarlet hermits picking at it, but that's about it when it comes to one of my critters dining on algae. I feed my 110 phytoplankton twice a week and I feed a 1/2 cube of spirulina enriched brine to my fish and other animals every day. All of my levels are perfect except for my phosphates which remain quite high, due to the tap water I am still using. I am hoping to purchase a RO/DI unit soon and see if the algae begins to decline. I have looked everywhere for a solution, but there doesn't seem to be an easy answer. I have 2 160 watt VHO's for lighting as a reference to the scientist(s) who figures this one out.

It also seems that is grows on the lower levels of the tank.

JB
10/04/2000, 11:52 PM
Hi All,
I too have some of this algae. I have a small picture of it on my site, along with some yellowish red colored algae that physicaly is similar. For those interested http://landlockedreef.homestead.com/landlockedreefpage2.html
I have 220 watts of PC lighting on a 55 gal. 40 pounds or so of live rock and a 2 inch crushed coral bed. 4 foot tall 4inch diameter DIY protien skimmer. No mechanical filtration, just water circulation. I get my water straight from the tap. I was using a DI filter, but didn't notice any changes in algae control. My tank has been set up for 3 years and all water parameters are where they should be, except for Phosphates. My Phosphates are very high, and I will be setting up a refugium to grow algaes in to try and lower these. Oh yea, I have been cutting back feeding for a while too.
The brown wafer algae grows like crazy. I covered half of a baseball sized rock of larger button polyps in no time. So far, I have just been pulling the algae off with my hands where it gets bad. Interestingly, Where I have let the algae grow uninhibited, it seems to die off in the middle of the patch and the dying follows the direction of growth until the rock is bare again.
The red stuff has all the physical characteristics of the brown, but doesn't grow very fast at all.
Just like many of you have said, neither my algae blennie nor snails or crabs will eat it.
Hope this helps you guys out.
Jason
Ps. maybe the high phosphates are good for xenia, because it grows faster than the wafer algae.

6-line
10/05/2000, 07:01 AM
Hey fellow sufferers,
JB, I too have that green candy-cane shaped like growth--it was in the shade and when I moved the rock, half turnd white while the other half remained green. Strange critter, I though it was some green macroalgae budding, but I doubt it. Nice, interesting pictures on your site.
Although you use only tap water and apparently chuck does as well (I have corresponded with chuck about this alage problem prior to this thread) there is a couple of us who do use RO or RO/DI or just DI water and the algae is still present.
JB says he noticed the hermits grazing on the stuff, I notice my Yellow Tang doing the same, but there never seems to be any indication of it being removed after investigating the grazed site. I wonder if the Tang is eating the tiny nearly transparent hairs?

Rowdy
10/10/2000, 04:15 PM
Well, so much for patience, I went to Lowe's, got a Stainless Steel wire brush (for welds) a little bigger than a toothbrush with a wooden handle. Then I went to LFS and got a new micron filter cartridge for one of my Magnum 350's. I hooked a longer piece of tubing to the intake of the magnum and attached a rigid piece for control to the end. I scraped ever so lightly a very small spot of the algae and vacuumed the area as I went with the magnum. The small part I did still had some nice purple coraline under that brown devil spawn. I will now restrain myself and observe any changes to the quarter sized patch I cleared of the wafer algae. I did notice that it was a bit harder to remove from spot where there was no coraline algae underneath, or at least there isn't any left.
I apologize to everyone for taking so long to reply to this post, I lost a power supply on my comp and had to mess around with it between 13hr 7 day work weeks.
The only clue I have is the Phosphate levels, although I doubt I have accurate readings, mine are supposedly an increment above zero at worst. I might have some tested from an outside source, I hear a local lab can nail Phosphates pretty good for a (hmmgghmm) fair price.
Hey, let's keep this post alive, we could all use a timely demise to this obnoxious algae.

Snailman
10/10/2000, 06:47 PM
If your phosphates are high you need to get them down before you are going to get control of any type of algae. I have used a chemical reactor from http://www.thatpetplace.com ES0271 $44.99 . I put a Polyfilter disk with a hole in the center in the top and the bottom of the chamber. I fill the chamber with Seachem Phosguard. I have had better luck with it than any other brand. I put a pump in the sump and pump water through the reactor. Change it every four to five days and the phosphates will come down. I have never had any luck just putting the media in a filter bag and putting it in a water flow area of the sump. After your phosphates are down to a reasonable level put some Caulerpa in your sump if you can to eat the nutrients as thet become available.

tmanning
10/11/2000, 10:26 AM
JBs thread stating that "if left alone the rock will eventually turn bare again" seems to be about the only positive thing in this post. I too am a sufferer of the scourge, and unfortunately I think the algae is resistant to extremely low nutrient levels. Other than macro algae and some microalge that I clean of the glass about every 5 days, the only thriving algae in my reef is this ugly brown stuff. I say I think it's resistant to low nutrient levels because because I've been using RO/DI water from the start (about a year ago}, I feed very lightly, and do bi-weekly water changes. I have only one fish in my tank and my feeding amounts to about 1/2 a cube of formula 1 per day. I can't believe there's no solution...it must not be a common problem. This thread is amazingly long as I've posted on other BBs about this problem and received no reply.

Yam
10/11/2000, 12:11 PM
Don't feel alone guys. I have this devil stuff too. I have to pick at it with tweezers everyweek or so. I let it grow completely around my xenia though. So at least that's one good thing. I've been using TWP, and am adding an RO next week. Good luck battling it.

6-line
10/11/2000, 12:12 PM
Hey,
So, we're covered most of bases concerning the growth and what feeds it--from phosphates to nutrient levels--different individuals have tried different methods and it runs from someone who uses tap water to R)/DI; from someone with one fish who feeds every other day to someone who feeds instant algae, fish twice a day and whatever else to create a heavy nutrient load, but the evil is still present.
I think we all just might have to wait until this scrouge just decides to up and disappear, whenever that'll be. Rare, resillient and relentless. What more can I say?

Rowdy
10/12/2000, 04:54 AM
I might give Ron a call over at saltwater heaven, I'm sure he has some sort of experience dealing with this scourge. (God I hope so) The patch I scraped off of the coraline isn't making a comeback yet....yet being the key operative here. I swear, I might ditch all of LR if this stuff spreads like I think it's going to. As far as non mechanical controls go, I don't think nutrient starvation is the answer here, for lack of other nusiance algae in my tank, and same goes for phosphates. From what I gather this stuff is bulletproof by those constraints. I was wondering if maybe I could grow some on a small piece of LR and do some mad experimentation in another enviroment so as to be able to subject that devilspawn algae to some wicked measures without poisoning my reef. Maybe I'll pull a piece of rock out, take a propane torch and scald the brown stuff off, then scrub, then scald, then re-cure....or beat the crap with a hammer... hey a stun gun.....ah, I dunno.
Later

6-line
10/12/2000, 08:21 AM
Rowdy,
Okay now, get ahold of yourself, it's never that bad--don't jump, ohhh. . . splat! :eek: Too late ;)
On a more serious note, the experimentation you are talking about sounds good, perhaps you can publish a paper on it? Okay, maybe not that good, maybe it's worthy of a FAMA article? Okay, maybe just another post on this thread.
Anyhow, when I scrap mine off a rock, it does eventually tend to grow back. I just scrapped a patch away from the center of my Green Star Polyps (don't ask me how it started there) and now there a purple bald spot in the center of the polyps mat (purple, of course, being the mat)I hate the stuff on my rocks, but I despise it on my glass. It adheres to the coralline algae, and you know how hard that is to remove (so I don't remove it, I don't mind it--the coralline), but when you have to see the Lobophora growing vertically on the wall on top of the coralline, that's different.
Still have the Caulerpa in the sump trying to export nutrients, though from previous posts I don't know if it'll work.
Fingers are crossed

RFK
10/18/2000, 02:08 PM
I, too, have been blessed with this lovely brown algae. I especially love the way it grows over everything in its path.


I may have the answer with regard to critters that control this algae. Mithrax sculptus... Emerald Crabs. Mine *rock* the stuff. I have watched both of my Emeralds go to town on it. They eat it constantly and seem to be keeping it under control.

Does anyone with this algae have Emerald Crabs in the tank?

Bob

h2oBoy
10/18/2000, 02:23 PM
Bob,

I also have a single Emerald Crab in my 75 gal reef, and from time to time notice him/her sampling the brown wafer algae in my tank. Unfortunately my crab doesn't make a dent in the stuff. Maybe I keep it fed to well, I don't know.

Mike

6-line
10/18/2000, 10:15 PM
Okay,
It didn't take much, but I'm getting one! Hope there's enough food for it that it will leave my corals alone!

RFK
10/22/2000, 08:33 AM
6-line,
Please let us know if you get positive results with the Emerald Crab.

I have 2 in my 120 and although they seem to curb the growth of the algae, I doubt that they will be able to completely annihilate it. Perhaps, if I had a small army of Mithrax sculptus, they would be able to wipe it out. Whatever the case, Emeralds have other merits that make them a valuable addition to a reef tank. Most notably, their appetite for Valonia algae(Bubble Algae) which can also be quite a nuisance if not kept in check. Plus, they are pretty cool to watch! :)
I have observed some questionable behavior displayed by the crabs, as well. They seem to be drawn to my SPS and my Gorgonians. I believe that they feed on the film of algae that, at times, develops on the Gorgonians. Their attraction to my SPS has me a bit stumped. They don't seem to feed on the polyps of either animal but they do occasionally hang among the branches of both. Just to be absolutely clear, and fair to the Emeralds, I have not noticed any destruction of any corals in the tank due to the crabs' behavior.
Good luck!

Bob

Rowdy
10/23/2000, 06:33 PM
Well, I just don't know what else to do but take that wire brush to the stuff and try to suck it out with the Mag and micron filter. All I'll probably do is spread it even worse, but it looks like it's doing that on it's own so... damnit! Is there one success story out there to give us hope? This crap is turning my purple reef into brown crap.... I'm going nuts looking at it. Son of a.....

6-line
10/23/2000, 10:20 PM
Rowdy,
I feel for ya. . . .
But I don't know what to do.. I'm waiting on an ordering pool to get some Emerald crabs. In the meantime, I have witnessed some of the Lobo breaking apart in the center and some strongwilled polyps bursting through, as if they were tired of being covered and finally found a weak link in the layer of ice above. The algae then proceed to flake at the center and the other polyps emerged. If I was to chance a fraction of hope, I think the caulerpa in the sump might be working as the algae doesn't seem to be progressing as much. I know the nutrient exportation is working because I had this stalk of sargassm that always sprouted and snaked its way up the water column until i trimmed it back, now it hasn't regrown since i last trimmed it, so there is less nutrients available--whether that affects the Lobo, well, the jury is still out. . .

therman
10/23/2000, 11:34 PM
IM BUYING SOME MITHRAX!!!!!!!

i was also wondering about those red eyed LR crabs i'd banished...ive never seen them eat a coral but i did see them eat macros....they may be resurrected from their mantis -run prison :)

h2oBoy
10/24/2000, 07:26 PM
I couldn't believe my eyes, but tonight I sat and watched my Sally Lightfoot crab peel off and eat pieces of brown wafer algae. Some of my scarlet legged hermits also seemed to be munching on it a little. This truly was suprising, because I'd never observed either species touching the stuff in my tank before. I'm not sure why the change in their diet, although it may be that I just wasn't observant enough prior to tonight. I haven't changed or reduced my feeding routine to the tank either.

If they have been feeding on it previously, they certainly haven't made much of a dent in the algae population. Granted I only have one Sally and four or five scarlet legs in my 75 gal tank, but I'm cautious about adding things that I may regret later. At this point, though, based on my past experience with the scarlet legs, I'm going to add several more and see what happens. They aren't nearly as aggressive as the blue legged hermits.

I'll hold off on adding another Sally Lightfoot. I've read that they should only really be used in a 100 gal or larger tank. Evidently, they can get large enough to prey on smaller fish in the tank should they get too hungry.

Ideally, the solution to the brown wafer algae problem is to reduce the nutrient load, but in the meantime I'm going to start watching the Sally and the hermits more closely to see if they continue this grazing behavior. If so, I'll update everyone.

HTH

Mike

Rowdy
10/30/2000, 05:45 AM
I did it!! I pulled out the rock and wire brushed the hell out of it removing most of the brown stuff and actually saving some nice coralline underneath. There are big bare spots on my LR now, but I would rather that than get ticked off every time I look at my reef. Hey, 6-line, how's the crab/macro scrub working out? I think I might have to add a sump if it works, I've been avoiding that because I plan on going way bigger in the very near future and using this 55 as a sump. Plus, I'm prone to flood this room which also houses considerable computer equipment.
Anyway, I'm gonna have to do some water changes for a few weeks so as to circumvent any possible spikes from LR die off I may have caused. Hey, I was wondering, does anyone here use a good ro/di system for their water? I see alot about Tap Water Purifiers etc.
My tank params are still good, no nitrates, phosphates, calcium 450, ph 8.4-8.6, temp. 78-80 F, new 4' URI's on IC 660, thin LS, 100# or so LR (figi) in a 55 with a custom air skimmer holding a few gallons of water, 802, 2 zoomedic power sweeps, mag 350 w/ reefcarbon pushing skimmer, aquaclear 500 with a new sponge (cleaned daily) for surface agitation and particulate removal, kalkwasser drip 1 tsp. per 1 gallon of fresh daily. Kents calcium, strontium,iodine daily low doses to use it up, and a 12hr lighting cycle late aft - morn. and little sunlight in room daytime. uh, oh two tangs, 3 peppermint shrimp, gaggle of blue legs, gaggle of asst. snails, gazillion baby snails, assorted corals ( frrogspawn, hammer, xenia, nepthea, trumpet, etc.)
10% weekly changes also. Feed Seaweed selects daily,osi flake daily, brine weekly, corals weekly with home made steamed, frozed seafood and baster before weekly change.

Okay later

well, that's it, any advice out there folks?

goby
10/30/2000, 07:28 AM
pardon me if its been said already but....


I have heard that naso tangs will eat some of the more revolting algae that we find to be a problem in the reef tank. I had a problem with dictyoda (sp?) a while back and it was suggested that I try a naso as the person suggesting it was a VERY competent reefer and had tried it several times with no problems. they seem to not have a problem with the harder brown algaes that are present in our systems. you may want to see if you can "rent" one from the LFS, I was at his house last the other night (the person that recomended it) and while we both had some of this brown algae, his is now gone (and he has a blond naso) and mine is still present ( surprise, i have no naso)

It just might be worth investigating...


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signu459
10/30/2000, 08:26 AM
I have this crap also, as Therman can justify. Therman also said that Emerald crabs are the way to go. But here are a few other things I have noticed. It does not grow in darkness. I have a clam mounted on a round disk that sits on the rock with the brown wafer. The Brown wafer does not grow under the disk. Also I have some Green Star Polyps that are spearding on top of the brown wafer. Right now the Star Polyps are spearding much faster than the Wafer. So cultivating Star polyps over the Brown Wafer may be beneficial.

Off to buy Mithrax!

therman
10/30/2000, 09:56 AM
hey....Signu may have an idea there....let the star polyps cover your algae, give it some time, then peel the polyps off and hopefully youve killed off the wafer underneath....PRESTO! clean rock!

thoughts? i may superglue some onto my wafer today :)

-Tim

signu459
10/30/2000, 10:21 AM
Therman that is aexactly what I was thinking. I have already cut off the main rock that had the Star Polyps on it and moved it to another spot on the wafer rock.

GO Star Polyps GO!!!!!

6-line
10/30/2000, 10:23 AM
I have recently had some Valonia sp. burst through some of the Lobophora (as well as some Zonathids) I don't know if it's the sign of a weakened state of the Lobophora or stronger will of the other creatures. I also noticed my Left-handed hermit chowing down on this stuff, but didn't seem to be doing much.
For anyone with experience of seeing the Emerald Crabs consuming this, will the crabs eat the newer, flatter versions or only the sections that have wafered up on the sides, IOW, are they capable of eating the near-encrusting sections (in my tank, only the matured sections have 'wafered' up, so to speak?
As far as darkness is concerned, I have a huge clump deep inside a cave, so I'm not a firm believer in the photosynthetic requirements of this pest algae. Maybe a little light, and if the rock is inverted there doesn't seem to be any growth on the undersides. . . so lets all turn out rocks upside down for a few weeks and then flip 'em over like burgers to get the other side! ;)

Rowdy
10/31/2000, 05:17 AM
Day 3, after wire brushing rock free of wafer algae, no new growth except the pink coraline that was still alive underneath is bleaching a little from the lights I would imagine, no spikes to speak of either.
As far as this stuff needing light... I disagree due to my having had this stuff in some of the darker spots on my rockwork, I mean dark enough for my peppermint shrimp to hang there all day.
As far as zooanthid polyps growing through, I have 2 decent sized ones growing on some wafer, but they are brown with green tips so the really don't excite me much.
As far as things to eat this stuff, I had, at a time, about 50 or so tiny snails grazing on this stuff with no progress noticed, but these were tiny like maybe a grain of margarita salt tiny, and I haven't ID them either so don't ask, but I have a mix of adult snails in my tank troceus, turbos, whatevers, I have 1 small snail with a checkerboard shell who rode in on a decent sized trumpet coral who looks pretty cool but stays on the glass mostly and I haven't bothered to ID him either. I saw a slug on the stuff (slug looking thing?) but it wasn't there long.
I have a crab in the tank, only ever see it's claw reach up and grab algae from rocks, not the brown stuff, and if I can, I'll prob. remove him, he seems to have grown since the last time I saw him several months back. I think he will prob. eat something other than algae given enough time. Well, keep the input coming folks, we might get somewhere if we keep trying.
Hey 6-line, how's the algae scrub coming along? Any noticeable improvements?
Thanks for everyone's input, sorry I haven't answered each individual post.

6-line
10/31/2000, 08:14 AM
Rowdy,
If I had to guess without being absolutely positive, I'd say yes, the caulerpa in my sump has helped to export some nutrients which would have otherwise been used by the lobophora. It's hard to discern, but i believe the spreading of the plague has decreased somewhat, although it is still there and as i mentioned before, things are beginning to poke out from their algae encrusted homes where i though all hope was lost.
Hope it continues; I've ordered an Emerald Crab from an ordering pool from FFE, so it should be in the tank by Thursday--hopefully munching on lobo and not corals.
Todd

6-line
11/07/2000, 10:18 PM
Well,
A week after adding the small emerald to my reef and his lack of appearence since, I found it today hanging on the side of a rock ripping off tiny shreds of--you guessed it--coral tissue--no, just kidding. Lobophora! It grips it in those tiny little claws and pulls it off the rock. I had sections where he's been pulling on the attached sheets. excellent. Now i wish I would have ordered more than one. I also have a sudden re-birth of Valonia, so there's more than his share of algae to consume. I'll keep a watch on the crustie to ensure he behaves and eats all of his browns. . . ;)

Phillstone
11/08/2000, 02:23 AM
Signu, I am liking the idea of starving them of light. A most cunning observation on your part. That way i won't have to try to get out a polyp (or coraline) starved emerald later.

Phill

RFK
11/08/2000, 04:38 PM
<b>VIVA MITHRAX SCULPTUS!!</b>

Purple Tang
11/08/2000, 10:16 PM
I to have this wafer algea and 3 emerald crabs. They are not even making a dent in it. I am using RO/DI water now but didn't at the start 6 months ago. This stuff is a real pain.
I had the big wafers already and pulled them off, but it is making acome back. My phosphates test kit says 0 phosphates.
Salifert.

6-line
11/08/2000, 10:32 PM
Hey,
Now everyone's coming forth. . .used to be, Brown wafer Algae, what's that? Now it's, I too am a fellow sufferer and a closet Lobophora hater. . .;)
With as much of the Lobo I have, It will definitely take more than my solitary Mithrax to consume it, especially with the sudden re-emergence of the valonia in my tank. I wonder which is more deirable to the crustacean pallette--green bubbles or brown wafers? I think the bubbles may be, they look like a extraterrestrial candy of some sort....
Strange thing is, the valonia is bursting through the patches of lobo, which is the lesser of two evils? I'd say the valonia. JMO.
Todd

Jisung
12/08/2000, 12:57 AM
Any new?

Rowdy
12/08/2000, 05:48 PM
I stand before you a defeated soldier in the Lobophora Campaign. My harsh methods (wire brushing LR) earned only the briefest expulsion of this scourge and now it is reigning terror on all tribes purple, and all tribes pink, and all tribes maroon, even the great tribe of flour. green about the base of my structure has fallen at the cunning swordsmanship of the Lobophoraonly the densest of my purple army remains and I ask myself if all is lost. Oh woe to the reefer who's treasure is foresaken by the dark Lobophora invaders. Tomorrow brings a new crusade, re-scape, add much, much raw HD sand, finalize plumbing on new sump design, and begin reconstruction under the lobophora reign.
Bear wittness reefers one and reffers all, this too could be your fate.

QUESTION; Do any of you run Calcium Carbonate reactors on the systems infected by Lobophora? I am not at this time, but I have everything I need to mad slap one together if all of you say no. Forgive me for not re-reading this whole thread to see indiv. set-ups.
Okay, so how about it? Anyone having success on the Mithrax Campaign or was that just wishful thinking? I just find it hard to believe this stuff is not defeatable.

Sindjin
09/03/2006, 06:33 PM
BUMP.

Its an old thread but I need the help. I have this brown wafer algae growing on several rocks and I'm not sure how to get rid of it.

My nutrient levels are good...no Nitrates and pretty low Phosphates ( less than .06ppm)

I only have 2 fish in my 120...
Any suggestions?

Samala
09/03/2006, 07:13 PM
That was one heck of a bump!

This is a very recent, and good, thread on Lobophora. It seems to prefer well run reef tanks that have good light and practically no nutrient problems. Its pretty grazable though, so any herbivores would love it.

What are your two fish in the 120 now?

Weird algae (http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=844993)

>Sarah