JapanReef - 450 gallon In-Wall system

[Volker]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6564308#post6564308 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by melev
It is in the quarantine tank, with lymphosistis or something. Here's a video of it eating, if you've not seen it already.

http://www.melevsreef.com/video/cbb1.wmv

Marc,
May I ask you what video cam you used ? The video looks great itself.

[melev]

I'm using my Fuji S602Z digital camera. It lets me shoot video as long as the batteries last and the memory card has room. Then it was edited with Windows Movie Maker.

[Volker]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6565385#post6565385 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by melev
I'm using my Fuji S602Z digital camera. It lets me shoot video as long as the batteries last and the memory card has room. Then it was edited with Windows Movie Maker.

Thanks !

[joe18]

Pmed you NexDog

[joe18]

Pmed you NexDog

[joe18]

NexDog you got PM

[joe18]

Pmed you NexDog

[joe18]

sorry for the triple post, my computer froze and i ditne think it went threw.
sorry
):

[joe18]

sorry for the triple post, my computer froze and i didnt think it went through.
sorry
):

[NexDog]

A double triple - nice. :D

As to your question, Acans are available but not so common as people are led to believe. I sometimes see them available on LFS sites but can't think of any where I've seen recently...

[MDP]

Hi lawrence.

Got a polystyrene box now so if you pm your address and phone number, I'll see about getting those frags and bangers down to you this week. Had my clowns spawn as well, but no rots on the go and an impending holiday makes it impractical so will probably try with the next lot!

I have also seen a lessening in Acans in shops (although pretty much every shop here carries some, just not in the quantities they used to).

The shops seem to be going for the bigger size colonies with WOW colours rather than the tanks full of green/orange as last year. These corals are coming in at higher prices as well, but I guess it is all relative.

Natural don't carry many at all due to their philosophy that they are not suited to a low nutrient SPS tank because of their feeding habits.

[NexDog]

Yea, can't remember seeing any on Natural, Splash, Reef-Kuki etc.

Matt, going to PM you now. Would be great to speak to you at last. :)

[NexDog]

Few issues I'm dealing with:

Microbubbles. Pretty bad - enough to make the tank look bad. There are of course loads of microbubbles in the sump but I've eliminated them before they get to the return so I believe air is leaking in somewhere. Going to go over all the joints with PVC glue tomorrow. Also, all the microbubbles in the sump are coming from the drains. I have filter socks on both and still there's loads. I put filter floss on the last baffle and I'm pretty sure that killed teh last of them in the sump but still they are there so it must be the damn plumbing. Any thoughts?

Acrylics sucks. I know I didn't have much choice but if I ever get to do it again it will be glass and I'll find a maker in Japan. I use a really soft foam pad to clean the inside of the front panel and I still have loads of microscratches. Really disappointed on this point. :(

I don't need to use a scraper every time I clean the panels so what can use?

[Bax]

NexDog

My CLs are making me crazy with micro bubbles. I have gone over every joint twice now and still I intermittently see micro bubble from the CLs only. I am beginning to blame the loclines and taped treads at this point. On the positive, each time I went over the joints (I used a tube a super glue as you can squeeze upward into joints with it if you were going to use PVC cement, I'd use a oral medication syringe) without pulling everything apart & I did reduce more bubbles.

Good luck

[Kent E]

I know this is late and obvious, but I think its good practice after cleaning the parts to apply glue to both the male and female end of the joint. This ensures extra glue, and will even annoyingly pour out of the joint, but will not allow an unglued fit. hold the joint so the pressure doesn't push the pieces apart. Also, wait before pressuring the lines, allowing cure time.

Not trying to be a know it all, just for people in future reference.

[rulesmith]

ok Nexdog, you got me scared now. I pick up my tank from James this weekend, and I do not want scratches, from what I have read if you are very careful you can avoid most of them. Now, I have been following this tread a long time now, and am pretty sure you are careful. Have you used any magnet cleaners or such? what kind of pad exactly did you use? Pic maybe? Thank you.

[JayS]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6572855#post6572855 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by NexDog
Few issues I'm dealing with:


Acrylics sucks. I know I didn't have much choice but if I ever get to do it again it will be glass and I'll find a maker in Japan. I use a really soft foam pad to clean the inside of the front panel and I still have loads of microscratches. Really disappointed on this point. :(

I don't need to use a scraper every time I clean the panels so what can use?

I'm thinking about getting a 60g cube from James also. I know he does great work but I'm not sure how I will handle an acrylic tank. A starphire cube of the same size is being quoted at 25%-30% higher. What a delimma....

BTW I really enjoy your journal.

[reefboy1]

I do know what you mean about scratches in acrylic. I also have a tank from James and have a few pretty noticable scratches. They really ticked me off at first, but I hardly notice them now - although I am self conscious about them when company is over.

No matter how careful you are, there will be scratches. The worst scratches in my tank came from my male Crosshatched Trigger. During his first few months in the tank, he would occasionally get spooked by something unknown and decide to bullet across the tank - this ended in a loud bang when his snaggle teeth met the acrylic and left a deep scratch for all to see.

I'll eventually try to sand these scratches out with micromesh...hopefully that won't make it worse. I think this will probably be my last acrylic tank - definitely glass next time.

Congrats on an awesome tank btw :)

Art

[melev]

You shouldn't be getting scratches with a cast acrylic tank, just wiping it down. Have you tried using sponges and credit cards to keep the panels clean? Avoid trapping and sand (it's barebottom, right?) between the pad and the panel.

If you have locline, it needs to be fully submerged to avoid microbubbles. All unglued joints must be submerged. If you drilled anti-siphon holes, these should be under water as well.

[rdmpe]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6572855#post6572855 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by NexDog
... Also, all the microbubbles in the sump are coming from the drains. I have filter socks on both and still there's loads. ... Can you do something like this?
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=344892&perpage=25&pagenumber=1
I think will put a stop to the microbubbles from the drain into the sump. I've been doing this method and it really is nice. However, I'm having microbubbles for other reasons, not my drain :rolleyes:

[jnb]

If I understand you - you may have air seeping in some of your joints causing microbubbles and plan to dab some glue - isn't your tank set up with life? Isn't PVC glue very toxic before it cures? Won't the fumes around and also possible some fumes getting sucks in for a second if there are compromises be detrimental to the life?

[jnb]

If I understand you - you may have air seeping in some of your joints causing microbubbles and plan to dab some glue - isn't your tank set up with life? Isn't PVC glue very toxic before it cures? Won't the fumes around and also possible some fumes getting sucks in for a second if there are compromises be detrimental to the life?

[jnb]

If I understand you - you may have air seeping in some of your joints causing microbubbles and plan to dab some glue - isn't your tank set up with life? Isn't PVC glue very toxic before it cures? Won't the fumes around and also possible some fumes getting sucks in for a second if there are compromises be detrimental to the life?

[NexDog]

Kent E: I definitely used loads of glue. Enough that it was dripping everywhere. But I'll try your ideas next time. :)

rulesmith & JayS: Don't want to put you off acrylic but if I could do it again and could get a glass tank made to spec here for a si,ilar price then yea, glass is the go. Avoiding your average scratch is simple really but getting microscratches from wiping the front panel with a really soft sponge - what gives?

reefboy1: What are you using to wipe down the acrylic. I have been using a credit card on tough spots but that isn't causing scratches.....

melev: It's barebottom at the moment but will add sand at a later date (after I get the rock). All the loclines are submerged and so are the anti-siphon holes....

rdmpe: Bit of a monster thread and I noticed a few solutions but I'll read it thoroughly.

[NexDog]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6579230#post6579230 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jnb
If I understand you - you may have air seeping in some of your joints causing microbubbles and plan to dab some glue - isn't your tank set up with life? Isn't PVC glue very toxic before it cures? Won't the fumes around and also possible some fumes getting sucks in for a second if there are compromises be detrimental to the life?
Good points but I can turn off the return for a few hours....

[reefboy1]

Laurence,

I'm using a magnet to clean the algae off the acylic. So far I haven't caused any damage with that. I don't have any scratches on the outside of the tank, only the inside.

Art

[NexDog]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6579733#post6579733 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by reefboy1
....only the inside.

Art
Sucks, doesn't it. :D

[Hop]

Shhhhhhh! I've really been cautious on cleaning and so far no scratches:)... I hope we can all keep them down!

[rdmpe]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6579557#post6579557 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by NexDog
rdmpe: Bit of a monster thread and I noticed a few solutions but I'll read it thoroughly.
It is a long thread, but once you read the first post, you can pretty much get the point of it. Then you can just skim over some of it, not critical IMO. Or skip to the end and start reading backwards. There are some typical arguments and stuff that need to be ignored :rolleyes:

[NexDog]

I'm going to try MrSandman's idea:

http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/585/1531sumpsilencer.jpg

If there are still microbubbles after that then I'll go over the joints on the return with PVC glue again.

Good news! My rock is almost ready. They are diving today and tomorrow and wiull be sending me on Sunday! I'm really excited about this because my tank looks dull and uninteresting at the moment.

My flame angel and powder blue or exhibiting the outwards signs of Ich so I've started the drop to hypo. I was holding out for Matt's cardinals but I can always put them in a little 20g to drop down to hypo and then put them in. It would be a bit crowded in there but there's no aggression (right now anyway). Those 2 fish are very skittish so I hope they can hold on the 2 weeks it takes to kill off the parasite. I feed with selcon soaked flake, BBS and blood worms and nori twice a week so there diet is good and they are all eating.

[Bebo77]

laurence, you know what helps me with mico bubbles is filter socks...they do an amazing job of trapping the bubbles in the pouch.

http://img212.imageshack.us/img212/8641/imd150ea13515nh.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

i have them over every one of my drains. little to no bubbles with this easy fix.

[NexDog]

I use them too. :(

[steve68]

they do help but the only thing i dont like is that they trap the food & i like the whole tank to get fed
i do use them when i have a meeting :)

[asnatlas]

Where is a good place to get filter socks...

[NexDog]

Get mine at MarineDepot....

[Bax]

Grainger has them to you can buy em by the case

[fishgeeksrus]

FWIW,

Be careful with the filter socks. They require constant attention (cleaning). They were causing a PO4 problem, so we stopped using them. Then again we only changed them out once a week. :rolleye1:

[enamdjd]

I checked Grainer online and it appears that these felt bags have a carbon steel ring attached at the openings. I tried searching for drawstring; but the Grainger search engine did not show these felt bags. Please share which model you were referring too. Thank you.

[Bax]

I use the one with poly rings from Grainger, 100 micron , they do have to be changed frequently

[enamdjd]

Thanks, those are the ones I am looking for; however, Grainger has 10 pages dedicated to filter bags and all the ones I have gone through have the galvanized carbon steel rings. Do yo happen to have the Grainger model no. available of the ones with the poly rings? Thank you

[alpine]

heres a guy on ebay selling them for cheap

http://cgi.ebay.com/Filter-Sock-100-Micron-Polyester-Felt-Live-Coral_W0QQitemZ7739400532QQcategoryZ46310QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

HTH
Alpine

[mpcart]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6599810#post6599810 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by NexDog
I'm going to try MrSandman's idea:

If there are still microbubbles after that then I'll go over the joints on the return with PVC glue again.

Good news! My rock is almost ready. They are diving today and tomorrow and wiull be sending me on Sunday! I'm really excited about this because my tank looks dull and uninteresting at the moment.

My flame angel and powder blue or exhibiting the outwards signs of Ich so I've started the drop to hypo. I was holding out for Matt's cardinals but I can always put them in a little 20g to drop down to hypo and then put them in. It would be a bit crowded in there but there's no aggression (right now anyway). Those 2 fish are very skittish so I hope they can hold on the 2 weeks it takes to kill off the parasite. I feed with selcon soaked flake, BBS and blood worms and nori twice a week so there diet is good and they are all eating.


I did something similar but added a 45 deg elbow at the top - it keeps the salt spray down and lets the water gently flow back into the tank.

Here is a pic.

http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/500/51781outlet.JPG

http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/500/51781IMG_1598.JPG

[NexDog]

Nice idea! Might try and do this today if I can find time. :)

Well, the copperband is dead. Can't understand it. It was eating the shellfish all the time but last night I found it lying on the bottom of the tank dying. This morning it is dead. :(

On a brighter note I have my rock. Need to go get some salt for some dump 'n' swishing.

[agarza]

That's terrible news, but I guess copperbands are like that, one day they are doing fine, next day are gone without even saying good bye.

On the other hand is great to hear about your rock, I just can´t wait to see it in the tank.

Keep the good work, it's been a learning experience, thanks

[grallster]

Might as well mix up the new saltwater for a water change and use old tank water for the swishing.

[pcpm75]

This is the first time i have posted on this site. I have been enjoying just reading through all these threads and learning tons of new things and laughing my @#$ off at the same time. This thread and others have enlightened me everyday! Please keep the wonderful work coming and i Know this project is my favorite one to watch on this site! Thank you all...

[NexDog]

Thanks for the kind words. I took some pics on Sunday when I sorted the rock out and will scan and upload later today. I got 3 huge boxes and in each one was a suprise. One had a 8" Deresa clam, one had a yellow and orange sun coral and another had some small acro colony. I put them all in the prop area of the fuge which has the PFO mini-pendant with the 10k XM bulb.

Found the booklet for the Calcium Dispenser that goes with the osmolat finaly and hooked that up. Works great. :)

I have the rock in 2 large platic boxes and I have to say that 24 hours later - it stinks! Have them in the spare room with a heater, small light and powerhead in each. Did a 50% water change on the larger box yesterday. Also, I took about 5-6 large chunks out and put them in the skimmer section of the sump. My plan is to add some every few days so the biofilter on the tank can keep up and putting in the skimmer section will hopefully mean that more die-off is pulled out quickly. I set the skimmer to skim a bit wet in the meantime too.

Still battling microbubbles. I put Ts on both drains in the sump like this:

http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/585/1531sumpsilencer.jpg

I had to put 10" of PVC on top otherwise teh water just boiled over. I put elbows on top too like mpcart posted:

http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/500/51781outlet.JPG

I no longer have a bubbling cauldron but I STILL have the microbubbles!

I found teh 6-line wrasse this morning behind teh mag3 pump that powers the remora and thought it was dead as it was a bit curled up and on its side and covered in a stringy white substance like a spiders web. I put my hand in to scoop it out and it swam away. Bizarre....

[NexDog]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6626097#post6626097 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by pcpm75
This is the first time i have posted on this site. I have been enjoying just reading through all these threads and learning tons of new things and laughing my @#$ off at the same time. This thread and others have enlightened me everyday! Please keep the wonderful work coming and i Know this project is my favorite one to watch on this site! Thank you all...
pcpm75!
<img src="/images/welcome.gif" width="500" height="62"><br><b><i><big><big>To POSTING On Reef Central</b></i></big></big> :dance: :bounce1:

[melev]

Remember that new plumbing will make microbubbles for up to 14 days. Where do you see them most? In the sump? In the tank? Everywhere? Do you see any in the return section of your sump, where they can be sucked in by the return pump?

[NexDog]

In the sump 75% of the microbubbles are being created in the intake chamber and 25% via the skimmer. I add that mod and all it did was get rid of 90% of the large bubbles - microbubble production is still the same. I have 3 sets of baffles in the sump, flow through is 1400gph. I have one baffle out of the intake chamber and one from skimmer > fuge. As this is at the front and the fuge is lit 24/7 I can really see the stream of microbubbles coming from the bottom of the baffle (from teh skimmer section) rising up the baffle and 80% of them just whip over the top baffle and into the fuge.

Alot of the microbubbles get lost in the fuge due to this vortex effect that is happening there. Because the baffle stretches across the one side of the fuge the cascading water makes the caulerpa ntumble round and round so the microbubbles tumble with it and hit the surface before going through the teeth into the prop section.

Then there's another baffle from prop > return section but the return is at the back and I can't really get in there to see how many microbubbles are ending up there. But I see lots in the prop section and if that baffles is working like the one in skimmer > fuge then about 80% of those microbubbles I see must be making it back into the display.

Basically I'm pretty ****ed that the 3 baffles aren't doing their job on a comparaitively low 1400gph. :(

I'd like to eradicate microbubbles in the sump before I start looking elsewhere.....Any ideas?

[melev]

Well, that is the layout you wanted, and if I recall correctly the return section was long and narrow, correct? Point me to some pictures of your sump and/or diagrams and I'll see what I can do to help solve the problem.

[NexDog]

This was last diagram that I gave to James and is pretty close to what it is....

http://japanreef.com/images/build/sump8.gif

[melev]

So the water is going over a single baffle into the next compartment? Is each compartment 1" shallower than the one previous to it?

[NexDog]

There is a 1" or 2" drop from Intake to Skimmer then a 1" drop from Skimmer to Fuge. Fuge to Prop is level through teeth. Prop to Return is a 1" drop......

[melev]

So you never have a triple baffle anywhere with an over-under-over system, correct? Just a cascading waterfall system from section to section?

[NexDog]

They're all triple baffles. So the water travels down one baflle on section 1, enters section 2 via a 1" gap at the bottom, travels up the baffle on section 2 and cascades into section 2.

Problem is that the baffles are just whipping over with the cascading water rather than hitting the surface and dispersing. I know this can happen with lots of flow through the sump but with my mediocre 1400gph it shouldn't be an issue?

[melev]

How wide are the gaps between those baffles? 1"? How wide is each section? 6" or more?

Is this with saltwater currently, or are you water testing with fresh water? How long has it been running?

[NexDog]

Gaps are 1" wide - section sizes are in the diagram above. ;)

Definitely saltwater and it's been running for 2 months......

[melev]

Okay, so the first section is 10 wide as it pours into the next section, with a 1" gap on each side of the center baffle, correct? And then it falls 2"? At 1400gph, that should be just fine. Especially since you have the same again after the refugium.

Since it has had time to slime coat and it is saltwater, I'm guessing you still have it falling too far in the return section, or you have a leak in your plumbing perhaps. The return section may be hard to get do, but I imagine it is virtually bubble free. Is the water being drawn from the bottom inch of water of the return section? Do you have a bulkhead with an elbow pointing down?

[NexDog]

Yep, so a baffle out the intake section and then the other 2 so 3 in total.

The bulkhead for the return pump is at the very bottom at the far end of the return section. No elbow pointing down though. I'll have a good look in that section tomorrow.....

[CAreefer]

Sorry to butt in but.... Can you actually see bubbles in the return section of the sump? I thought I had the same problem. I made the cabinet dark and shined a flashlight into the sump and saw no bubbles. You may be fighting the wrong fight. If there aren't any mbs in the sump, shut down the circulation pump and let it sit for an hour or so and look for drips at your plumbing connections. I found a small leak on a connection and it solved my problems. Just trying to help.

I hope you find the source
CAReefer

[NexDog]

I do have to get to the bottom of it because I'm after the fish suspending in air look. I'll track it down I hope.

[mcdonaldtj]

Looking at your desighn I have the same roblem that you are having it is because of how narrow your sections are. I was using a GenX-40 1200 GPH and it pulls the bubbles right through because it is a narow path I have to use a Sock with mine or bubbles galore. I am having to change the sump design because of it.
http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a158/mcdonaldtj/PA120013.jpg

If you look at the picture my fuge is in the back which only leaves about 9 " for flow to go through makes it pull through really fast.

V/Tim

[mcdonaldtj]

Looking at your desighn I have the same roblem that you are having it is because of how narrow your sections are. I was using a GenX-40 1200 GPH and it pulls the bubbles right through because it is a narow path I have to use a Sock with mine or bubbles galore. I am having to change the sump design because of it.
http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a158/mcdonaldtj/PA120013.jpg

If you look at the picture my fuge is in the back which only leaves about 9 " for flow to go through makes it pull through really fast.

V/Tim

[NexDog]

My baffles are all at least 15" wide though. The sump is pretty huge....

[Psyire]

Have you thought of making a bubble tower out of PVC on the line entering the sump?

Or adding bioballs to one of your over-under baffle sections? I had to do this in my sump to elminate my bubble problem.

[melev]

mcdonaldtj, try using a less powerful return pump. For a 125g tank, your return pump only needs to push 3x to 5x that number, or 375 to 625gph. More flow in your display tank can be achieved with powerheads, Stream pumps or a closed loop.

[NexDog]

I'm thinking about hooking my drains into the 902 and putting the Iwaki pump for the return and hooking skimmer output into the intake chamber.....

At the moment the drains open into the intake chamber right at the bottom. I have pipe going down to the bottom ending in a tee. In this tee I plug in a small piece of pipe with the filter bag. Maybe I should be draining to just a few inches under the water so the bubbles have less of a distance to travel to the top and disperse?

[Psyire]

I would try the PVC bubble tower...

Cut the drain pipe off just under the water line, get a bigger diameter pvc pipe, (twice the size) and place the drain into the center of it. Have that bigger piece go right to the bottom of the sump, and stick out of the top of the water a few inches as well. Drill a pile of holes at the bottom and then fill the bigger pvc 'tower' with LR rubble so that your water has to filter through this LR rubble and out the holes at the bottom.

[NexDog]

Thanks Psyire, I'm going to try it. :)

[Psyire]

Thank Melev, I believe it was in one of his posts that I first read about it...

[duhfactor]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6645340#post6645340 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Psyire
Thank Melev, I believe it was in one of his posts that I first read about it...
I must be visual...any pics of what your describing?

Damon

[melev]

How about this thread?

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=626771&highlight=bubble+tower

[asnatlas]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6646184#post6646184 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by melev
How about this thread?

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=626771&highlight=bubble+tower

I remember seeing this thread... I was planning something like this for my new setup... I was just going to use PVC, does not have to be pretty just work good :)

[duhfactor]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6646184#post6646184 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by melev
How about this thread?

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=626771&highlight=bubble+tower

Oh......I see........I like the idea......Thanks,

Damon

[enamdjd]

Hi: I have been following your thread, while I too am setting-up a custom 225 gallon tank by AFY in NJ. I specified 1.5" drains in each of my overflow boxes. I went from a sequence barracuda to a pan world 100 to a small Gen-x (1100gph) return pump and still had bubbles. I read with detail over Melev's helpful site and now actually agree with a lower flow through the sump. My (2) tunze 6200 provide enough internal flow. Anyway, I created bubble traps just like Melev describes and still had microbubbles. I changed my plumbing, including my OM 1" flexible return nozzles, since air might be coming in via the joint spaces and still had microbbubbles. I created a double layered drip tray and still had microbubbles. I used felt socks and still had microbubbles. I was about to give up when I consulted with my friend Al Dispigna, the president of the Brooklyn Aquarium Society (the oldest, almost 100 years old, and largest aquarium society in the USA) and he immediately diagnosed the problem. My 1.5" drain pipes were simply too big. There was so much turbulence as the water flowed down the pipes that microbubbles where inevitable.

Solution: I placed reducers from 1.5" to 1" on the ends of each drain pipe and placed each in a felt bag and the microbubbles were all gone. By restricting the terminal lumen of the drain pipes upon exit, the water volume in each drain pipe was forced to back-up and increase. In fact, try placing your fingers at the end of the output of a 1" and a 1.5" and you will see and feel a more solid stream of water in the 1" drain. As simple as this sounds, the water flow is less turbulent and contains less air.

I hope this simple approach helps.

Respectfully, Dr. A

[enamdjd]

Hi: I have been following your thread, while I too am setting-up a custom 225 gallon tank by AFY in NJ. I specified 1.5" drains in each of my overflow boxes. I went from a sequence barracuda to a pan world 100 to a small Gen-x (1100gph) return pump and still had bubbles. I read with detail over Melev's helpful site and now actually agree with a lower flow through the sump. My (2) tunze 6200 provide enough internal flow. Anyway, I created bubble traps just like Melev describes and still had microbubbles. I changed my plumbing, including my OM 1" flexible return nozzles, since air might be coming in via the joint spaces and still had microbbubbles. I created a double layered drip tray and still had microbubbles. I used felt socks and still had microbubbles. I was about to give up when I consulted with my friend Al Dispigna, the president of the Brooklyn Aquarium Society (the oldest, almost 100 years old, and largest aquarium society in the USA) and he immediately diagnosed the problem. My 1.5" drain pipes were simply too big. There was so much turbulence as the water flowed down the pipes that microbubbles where inevitable.

Solution: I placed reducers from 1.5" to 1" on the ends of each drain pipe and placed each in a felt bag and the microbubbles were all gone. By restricting the terminal lumen of the drain pipes upon exit, the water volume in each drain pipe was forced to back-up and increase. In fact, try placing your fingers at the end of the output of a 1" and a 1.5" and you will see and feel a more solid stream of water in the 1" drain. As simple as this sounds, the water flow is less turbulent and contains less air.

I now have a crystal clear tank!

I hope this simple approach helps.

Respectfully, Dr. A

[enamdjd]

sorry for the double post

[melev]

That is very interesting. Thanks for sharing your solution, as I bet it will help others in the future.

So did you simply insert a 1.5" to 1" bushing in the drainline, or was there more to it? The only drawback I see is if a fish goes down the plumbing accidentally. 1" isn't much room to escape, and some fish might act like the perfect blockage to make a tank overflow.

[enamdjd]

This is a valid concern and I am glad you bring it up. I guess placing a vinyl screen cover over the overflow might help with active jumpers. Better yet custom acrylic covers. Maybe you can start a line of Melev overflow covers. I know I would buy one from you. You have certainly proven to be ingenious and creative within the hobby.

Dr. A

[melev]

You're too kind. Some type of strainer inside the overflow that fits into the Durso would help, but it would be one more thing that needs to be cleaned out from time to time as well. Right now I have everything open and no microbubble problems. Still, I like seeing solutions like the one you came up with, and will surely keep this in mind when this problem arises with others.

[NexDog]

Thanks for the input - much appreciated. I have two 1.5" drains in each overflow. One is cut off halfway and handles most of the flow. What I did was choke off the flow underneath with a ball valve until the amount of flow was just too much for the pipe and caused the water level to rise and the rest is handled by the durso standpipe handles the rest. So all the air is coming down that durso. Maybe I will try a 1" durso then....

But I think my ultimate solution is to feed my returns direct into my Deltec 902 skimmer. This would improve skimmer performance and elimate another pump. I think in teh end I might have 2 skimmers - one for each drain - and run one wet and the other dry and maybe ozone in one too.

I'm happy to take it slow to get a near-perfect system running. I still have major power issues to resolve. One of my halides is so dim and I'm positive it's a power issue rather than a bulb/ballast issue. Waiting on some experts to come round and look at that. The microbubble issue does need to be resolved too but it will in the end. :)

So my rock has been curing in tubs for just over a week. Every 2 days I test the ammonia level in my tank and if it's zero as it has been been, I add a few kilos. I've been adding it to the skimmer section of the sump and skimming super wet hoping to pull out the nastiness. I've probably added about 10kg so far.

[enamdjd]

I also have 1.5" dursos and Hayward double union ball valves right after the drains exit the bottom of the tank. I tried restricting the flow by closing down the Haywards but still one is left with the actual cross-sectional volume of a 1.5" drain pipe. The air in my case was secondary to the turbulence and contact time within the 1.5" flexible PVC pipes after the water exited tank. By simply placing 1.5" to 1" reducers at the end of each drain pipe, just before the water exits into the filter bags in the sump, I was able to back up the water, fill the space within the 1.5" drain lines and decrease the "vortex flow" down the drain pipes. In doing so, I was able to decrease the air inclusion into the water within my drain lines as the water makes its journey downward. I hope this helps and serves to eliminate any additional major plumbing.

[corwando]

Sir,

I run a sequence 5000SEQ22 as my return pump for my 120g. My sump is a custom acrylic 80g set in my basement. I very few microbubbles, if any, mostly caused by my euro-reef skimmer. I did a few things to stop microbubbles from the drains-

1. I put two large 1-1/2" gate valves on the drains coming from the tank just before the sump. At the inlet of the drains, I oversized the standpipe and drilled the standpipe with a ton of holes to prevent fish from taking a ride.

2. I installed two "safety drains" or non-functioning drains to prevent flooding if one of the gate-valved drains becomes clogged. They are a lifesaver! They are adjusted to be just above the tank water level but still below the top of the tank.

3. I backed up the flow in the drains by slowly closing the gate valves. Air never makes it to the sump!

The only thing I do is adjust the gate valves periodically. It's a pain, but worth it with the flow I'm pushing. My pump pushes over 3000 gph!

This idea has been discussed at length in another thread. Do a search for it. It works, and if properly tuned, the noise of the overflow is a great alarm. In fact, I have a very silent tank because of it.

Do whatever you feel like, though.

[NexDog]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6677764#post6677764 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by enamdjd
I also have 1.5" dursos and Hayward double union ball valves right after the drains exit the bottom of the tank. I tried restricting the flow by closing down the Haywards but still one is left with the actual cross-sectional volume of a 1.5" drain pipe. The air in my case was secondary to the turbulence and contact time within the 1.5" flexible PVC pipes after the water exited tank. By simply placing 1.5" to 1" reducers at the end of each drain pipe, just before the water exits into the filter bags in the sump, I was able to back up the water, fill the space within the 1.5" drain lines and decrease the "vortex flow" down the drain pipes. In doing so, I was able to decrease the air inclusion into the water within my drain lines as the water makes its journey downward. I hope this helps and serves to eliminate any additional major plumbing.
So I could just put 1.5" > 1" bushings on the drains right before they drain into the sump? That would be most helpful and easier to do than swapping out all the plumbing.

[NexDog]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6679121#post6679121 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by corwando
Sir,

I run a sequence 5000SEQ22 as my return pump for my 120g. My sump is a custom acrylic 80g set in my basement. I very few microbubbles, if any, mostly caused by my euro-reef skimmer. I did a few things to stop microbubbles from the drains-

1. I put two large 1-1/2" gate valves on the drains coming from the tank just before the sump. At the inlet of the drains, I oversized the standpipe and drilled the standpipe with a ton of holes to prevent fish from taking a ride.

2. I installed two "safety drains" or non-functioning drains to prevent flooding if one of the gate-valved drains becomes clogged. They are a lifesaver! They are adjusted to be just above the tank water level but still below the top of the tank.

3. I backed up the flow in the drains by slowly closing the gate valves. Air never makes it to the sump!

The only thing I do is adjust the gate valves periodically. It's a pain, but worth it with the flow I'm pushing. My pump pushes over 3000 gph!

This idea has been discussed at length in another thread. Do a search for it. It works, and if properly tuned, the noise of the overflow is a great alarm. In fact, I have a very silent tank because of it.

Do whatever you feel like, though.
I've seen the threads on this method but it's more messing around than I want to do. :p

[bigeyetuna]

I too have Micro bubble problems and it is very annoying to see in the display tank. Thanks all for the useful information in this thread!

Also very interested in seeing more pictures, AWESOME TANK SETUP!!!!!

[NexDog]

So I got my rock 2 weeks ago and it was shipped from Okinawa which is just south of here. I took some pictures at the time and it's only taken me 2 weeks to get them scanned in uploaded. Damn, I need a digital camera bad. :D

So it came in 3 boxes. One box had big pieces and the other 2 contained smaller.

http://japanreef.com/images/build/rock.jpg

Here is how much rock I got:

http://japanreef.com/images/build/rock1.jpg

http://japanreef.com/images/build/rock2.jpg

http://japanreef.com/images/build/rock3.jpg


The rock is really colourful. Lots of pink, purple, red, green and yellow. Basically every colour coraline you can get....

http://japanreef.com/images/build/rock4.jpg

http://japanreef.com/images/build/rock5.jpg

Even had a big clam shell which will look nice in the aquascape.

http://japanreef.com/images/build/rock6.jpg

[NexDog]

Each box had a freebie. I got an acro colony, a sun coral and a huge Deresa clam. In he bag:

http://japanreef.com/images/build/rock8.jpg

The acro is in the tank now as well as the clam. Not a big fan of sun coral due to the maintenance involved so have it in the sump for easy feeding. It is yellow and orange and I've never seen a bright yellow before so I think I'll make an effort with this one.

I've been curing the LR in these 2 plastic tubs.
http://japanreef.com/images/build/rock7.jpg

I have about a third in the tank already and will be aquascaping at the end of this month. This month I'm going to hook up at least one CL and the CL in the prop section (which I've decided to do in soft PVC). And then hook up the drains to teh skimmer which should increase performance and eliminate microbubbles.

And March I'll begin to stock hardcore. :)

[melev]

Those are some very cool freebies! And the rock looks very nice, very natural-shaped.

[NexDog]

I think I might do half the aquascape tomorrow. I have enough rock in the tank to do one island. My aquascape probably won't be as ingenious as some as it will be 2 formations above each rack (quite high) with a back wall connecting them that I want to high back CL inlet/outlets.

I took out all the new rock today and gave it another scrub and inserted more in the skimmer section.

[Bax]

Beautiful rock NexDog!

That's great that you can get natural LR from such a close source, it's like Florida aquacultured rock here on the east coast ... only much better!

[NexDog]

MDP is sending mre down some frags in the morning. In the box is an orange monti cap, 2 frags of metallic green Monti digitata, pink birds nest, pink zoos with clove polyps and a frag of the Red People Zoo. Thanks Matt!!

[melev]

Laurence, I'm a little bit concerned that you are adding livestock too soon to your tank. All the rock that was shipped was exposed to air for a while, right? You might get a small cycle, something you should test for.

I'm excited for you to get livestock too, but the rock should be already in the tank by now, and water tests should indicate all is well.

Perhaps you've already given this some thought, but others reading might figure they could do exactly what you are doing and set up a reef tank virtually overnight.

[NexDog]

It's all good, Marc. :)

I got the rock 2 weeks ago and put it in the tubs. Every few days I've been scrubbing a few pieces and placing it in the skimmer section and skimming really wet. I test the water before I add more rock too.

My thinking is that by adding it slowly I'm giving the bio-filter a chance to catch up and it seems to be working. If I had added as much rock as I've put in in one go I'd have gotten a cycle for sure. The curing rock stinks so bad. :D

So it's thought through. And I've had the YT, Coral Beauty, Clowns, Chromis and pair of gobies in there for over a month now too. I am taking it very slowly really.

[melev]

You know what? I totally forgot that you posted that it took you two weeks to get the film developed and scanned in. In my mind, I saw pictures of new LR on newspaper, and then your next post was about livestock coming in. My mistake. (Going off to start the coffee maker now....) :o

[NexDog]

Also, the frags will all go in the prop section until the aquascape it built. I know it may seem a bit premature but if I continue to add the rock the way I have I don't see an issue.

[NexDog]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6722669#post6722669 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by melev
You know what? I totally forgot that you posted that it took you two weeks to get the film developed and scanned in. In my mind, I saw pictures of new LR on newspaper, and then your next post was about livestock coming in. My mistake. (Going off to start the coffee maker now....) :o
Hehe, I see how that would seem a bit bizarre. Pretty much everything I do is fully researched and while I'm no expert on reefkeeping I do understand the concept of shipped rock = die off = ammonia = bad. :p

[melev]

I was pretty sure you did. But again, the silent readers do tend to copy others, especially if it looks like they are successful. As dutiful hobbyists, we have to keep that in mind and provide them with the safest and most effective method that will assure them success in their own tanks.

Looking forward to the pictures of your new corals. In two weeks, right? :D

[tony13]

enamdjd

Sorry to go off track but how long did you have to wait to get your tank?, the reason I ask cause I'm going on four month's and still can't get a straight answer from them. I've been told this week three weeks ago but I've heard it before and am getting nervous.
Tony

[rulesmith]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6723047#post6723047 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by tony13
enamdjd

Sorry to go off track but how long did you have to wait to get your tank?, the reason I ask cause I'm going on four month's and still can't get a straight answer from them. I've been told this week three weeks ago but I've heard it before and am getting nervous.
Tony

I had great communication with James at envision. Try calling him. He gave me a date range and then confirmed the date with me a few weeks out and he stuck to it.

[NexDog]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6723047#post6723047 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by tony13
enamdjd

Sorry to go off track but how long did you have to wait to get your tank?, the reason I ask cause I'm going on four month's and still can't get a straight answer from them. I've been told this week three weeks ago but I've heard it before and am getting nervous.
Tony
You mean James at Envision? I first contacted him at the beginning of July and we spent all July working out the sump design. I ended up doing 8 revisions there. In August we worked out the tank design. In September James said he'd start building in October and he did. I received the tank on November 8th. Just phone him alot and get a definite timeline and he should stick to it.

[Hop]

Yeah he was actually a week a head of schedule on mine... Have you spoke to him personally on the phone? He only checks e-mails every so often. He likes to spend his time in the shop where the money is actually made:)

[NexDog]

That's true. He only checks his mail once or twice a week. Crazy as it seems. :D

[tony13]

No I was asking enamdjd about AFY. Didn't mean to confuse everyone. I guess they're busy but I'm two months past the original due date, I'm wondering if this a "normal" thing for them.
Tony

[ScubaCarl]

Lawrence,

Love your setup !!

Do you have any pictures of your live-rock-base you created? Are you attaching the LR to this base ? or just piling up the LR?

[NexDog]

I'll be piling it up on top of those racks. And the flow through the rack provides some nice flow under there keeping that area free of detritus. Most of it blown out to the back where there is a 5" gap for easy siphoning.

I'm not buying ito the whole BB thing. I think you can have sand in your tank if you do it right. Problem with shallow sand beds is that most people build rock structures on top of them and all the detritus falls down in there where it can't be cleaned out. Steve Weast uses the same system as I've setup and I believe he devised it - I certainly used his setup (http://oregonreef.com) as my inspiration.

But I won't be adding sand for quite a while as the LR will be shedding for quite some time. Also on this setup I've rigged up this Maxi-Jet that sits on a 1" pipe with tubing on the outlet. Can't really explain it but this MJ 1200 setup allows me to blow off the LR without putting my hands in the tank. Done something similar for siphoning too. Will post some pics one day. :p

Still need to finish my sliding light rack and the rear platforn that allows me stand behind teh tank but everything is progressing as fast as it can.

The corals that Matt send 30 hours ago still haven't arrived. Hope they'll survive.....

[TheCoralReef731]

Hey NexDog,
I found your thread a few weeks ago, but it was pretty long, so I finally get to post (yeah:) ). I really like your design and how well planned out your whole system. The sump design is amazing, but I guess it still had a few kinks in it. Wow, talk about nice (and expensive). I can't wait to see it become an established reef tank. Keep up the good work.
Peter

[melev]

ScubaCarl,

[welcome]

[NexDog]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6736166#post6736166 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by TheCoralReef731
Hey NexDog,
I found your thread a few weeks ago, but it was pretty long, so I finally get to post (yeah:) ). I really like your design and how well planned out your whole system. The sump design is amazing, but I guess it still had a few kinks in it. Wow, talk about nice (and expensive). I can't wait to see it become an established reef tank. Keep up the good work.
Peter
Hi Peter, and thanks for reading the thread. I think the sump design is pretty good and has 3 sets of baffles. I'm certain that with some tweaking on the drains I can eliminate the microbubbles but I feel that feeding the drains into the skimmer is the best for so many reasons:

1) Maximises skimmer performance with raw overflow water.
2) Eliminates need for a pump.
3) Won't need to use filter bags on the drains.
4) Eliminates any microbubbles caused by the drains.

People might think it's dangerous because I'll only have one line into the skimmer and is a fish or snail got in there it would be bad news but I just ordered another float switch which will be going in my return section. So if something clogs the line the tank won't overflow as the float switch will turn off the pump (and also save the pump from burning out).

Going to do that as soon as all the rock is in the tank and it might be sooner than I though. Ammonia levels in the curing tubs is starting to drop dramatically. Going to change the water there again tomorrow and add more into the skimmer section and I reckon I might have it all in there by Sunday. :)

[NexDog]

I fixed my digital video camera. It's only 3.0 megapixels and I don't understand how to work it at all as it's all in Japanese but I'm hoping this means I can be a bit more prompt with taking pics. My office is a bit narrow and I might have to perch on my desk to get a full frontal shot but I just took this one. You can see the rock is starting to pile up now. :)

http://japanreef.com/images/build/tank_front_feb-14th.jpg

You can also see the big Deresa in the bottom right.

The light cracks from the access doors bothers me a little. Any DIYers out there have any suggestions in cutting that out?

[NexDog]

Here's a pic of that Deresa (it is a Deresa, right?):

http://japanreef.com/images/build/deresa.jpg

[akirasan]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but i think that might be a T. Squamosa. :)

[CAreefer]

I believe Squamosa also. Based on the fluted structure of the shell. The Deresa's have a smooth shell.

http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/500/21147T-Deresa-08_15_05.jpg

As for the light escaping around the doors, I used the self adhesive rubber weatherstripping and attached it to the doors. It is about time to replace it (2yrs) and I'm thinking of using the rubber and metal screw on weatherstripping. It's basically flat metal with a hollow rubber "rope". I will just screw it into the rails and stiles of the cabinet. Just like sealing a front door. I have a piece left over from the pack I bought for the house. I can post a pic if you need.

HTH
CAReefer

[NexDog]

Thanks for the correction. As you can see my clam knowledge is top notch. :D

Should it be that colour or will it colour up a bit?

Good idea on the rubber weatherstripping. I'll go to the hardware store tomorrow and see what I can find.

[Bax]

That's a big clam!

Rock looks great!

[NexDog]

Just read up on the Squamosa and seems it grows up to 15". The one I got is about 10" long so pretty big. :)

[akirasan]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6737588#post6737588 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by NexDog

Should it be that colour or will it colour up a bit?



I don't think they color up per se, but some nice ones have really cool colored 'trimmings' on the edge of the mantle. Then again, those are just the ones I've seen. Probably be nicer ones out there.

[JayS]

NexDog-

Been following closely, love your tank and journal. How do you like your Deltec 902 (is it connected to your return?)?

So if you had it to do over again you would have gone with glass? How about a updated full tank/room shot (or as big as you can get it)?

[NexDog]

It's not connected direct to the drains yet but will be once I've finished with curing the LR. The 902 is an amazing machine. Once dialled in it is really easy and reliable. Set it to wet or dry by adjusting the air valves and it works great.

I would have loved to have gone glass but I just couldn't. Couldn't find a builder that did for a good price and then there's explaining exactly what I needed which is tough due to the language and shipping one from abroad would have been too expensive. And then there's the earthquake risk. We had a magnitude 5 quake the other day.

I'll clean up my office and take a pic. MDP's corals arrived. Took two days and they aren't in very good shape. I've had them floating for a few hours and I'm about to open them and aclimatise. One frag looks to have shed its flesh completely. :(

[NexDog]

So I received a box of frags from Matt (MDP) this morning. He lives in Tokyo which is about 1000km away. Not sure why but it took over 48 hours for the box to get to me. Matt - next time lets use KuroNeko!

The Box:

http://japanreef.com/images/build/frag1.jpg

Matt packed them well:

http://japanreef.com/images/build/frag2.jpg

But as soon as I saw the bags I knew things were in bad shape:

http://japanreef.com/images/build/frag3.jpg

This frag did particularly badly but I'm hoping to save it. Should I cut the skeleton off?

http://japanreef.com/images/build/frag4.jpg

The Red People Eater was completely dissolved and the monti cap frags are completely bleached but time will tell. The clove polyps look to have made it and the metallic green digi frags look good. Many, many thanks Matt, it's very much appreciated!

I have them in the growout section of my sump. Here's a pic I took before inserting them. Has the freebie suncoral and acro colony and my remaining brain:

http://japanreef.com/images/build/growout.jpg

Also has 2 small anenomes that didn't do well in my old 50g. They've turned very bulbous now but I don't know if I will keep them as my big LTA is doing great under the new halides.

I'm going to cut the bottom off another beer crate and use that for a small stand for the frags. Maybe tomorrow. :)

[NexDog]

This is the acro colony I got free with the LR:

http://japanreef.com/images/build/acro.jpg

This is the suncoral. Unfortunately half of it bleached but I'm nursing it back to health. Note the yellow in it. :)

http://japanreef.com/images/build/suncoral.jpg

Here's the brain in the growout section:

http://japanreef.com/images/build/brain.jpg

And for JayS, here's the office taken from as far back as I can. Right side:

http://japanreef.com/images/build/office1.jpg

Left side:

http://japanreef.com/images/build/office2.jpg

And a straight on full frontal and yes, I did have to perch on my desk for this shot. :D

http://japanreef.com/images/build/tank_front_feb-15th.jpg

[NexDog]

Last few things for tonight. If you've followed this you'll remember that I had a major issue with power. Our 100v mains wasn't enough to fire up all the halides so I had to get some transformers custom made. They seem to have done the job for the most part but there are a few lingering issues. If I fire up the big Sequence pump one of the hal;ides goes out but does come back on. I've decided to leave the big Sequence on 24/7 now to work out any microbubbles in the new plumbing. I actually had to redo the plumbing on that pump completely due to major microbubbles there. It really does keep that area under the racks completely clean which I'm hoping will mean I never have a nitrate issue.

Anyhow, here is one of those transformers (I have 3 in total):

http://japanreef.com/images/build/transformer.jpg

Here is a pic of my current fight with microbubbles. This is the baffle from the skimmer section to the fuge. You can see the bubbles streaming up the fuge side and overflowing into the fuge. There is one more baffle after this but I'm now convinced that these kind of baffles only really work when you have minimal bubbles at low flow....

http://japanreef.com/images/build/microbubbles.jpg

[H20ENG]

Laurence,
PLEASE put an acrylic cover over those terminals on the transformer. I see there are some small ones, but those exposed terminals WILL bite you eventually.
Do you have the microbubble issue without the Sequence on? I know that sometimes a pump seal will leak and draw in air.
Looking good!
Chris

[NexDog]

Yes, been thinking about covering them so I'll get the done.

The microbubble issue is from the return mostly. If I turn the return off they decrease by 75% or so. The remaining coming from the skimmer.

[jeffbrig]

Laurence, you may want to take a wait-and-see approach with the microbubbles. I remember being annoyed by them in my tank and trying all sorts of things to eliminate them early on. After a few weeks, once everything was nicely "slimed up", it seems about impossible for me to get microbubbles from the sump back into the display, even if I have bubbles blowing out of my skimmer.

[NexDog]

Tank's been running for 2 months so I'm sure all the piping is suitably slimed up. Anyhow, I'm set on hooking up the drains to the skimmer which I'm positive will fix the issue.

[jeffbrig]

Yeah, at 2 months I think you're as slimed up as you're going to get. Dumping the drains into the skimmer is a nice method. I recently switched mine over, and I'm very happy with the result.

[NexDog]

So you're draining straight into your skimmer? I think you have a Euroreef? Can't remember if you have the one overflow or two so interested to hear about that part of your setup in detail if you have the time. :)

[jeffbrig]

No problem.....

I am using a Euro-reef, the one I have is a CS12-2 recirculating with SP4 beta pumps (which is now sold as the RC500 model).

Here's what my plumbing looks like now....
http://home.comcast.net/~jbrigman/pics/new_plumbing.jpg

I have two drains in a single overflow box, both 1.5".

The drain in the background is the primary drain, carrying ~2000gph. In the overflow compartment, this is an open drain, no durso, no nothing (more on that in a minute). Down below, it splits with a Y. The straight-through line has a 1.5" gate valve to restrict flow, and dumps into the main sump compartment. The other half reduces to a 3/4" gate valve, then a 3/4" hose feeding directly into the skimmer. I run the valves restricted so that water backs up inside the overflow box. This ensures that the primary drain is always submerged and carries 100% water. Even at 2000gph, there are no bubbles created. I also think this is better for the skimmer, as 100% water should be more consistent than an air/water mix where the amount of water can fluctuate.

The drain in the foreground is the "backup" drain, which feeds into the refugium compartment. It has a durso standpipe up top, which sets the level in the overflow compartment, keeping things nice and quiet. The valves on the primary drain are restricted to raise the water level in the overflow so that ~200 gph goes through this taller backup drain. A small amount of microbubbles come out of this drain, but the flow rate is low enough that they don't make it out of the refugium compartment.

I rely on gutter guard to keep fish, snails, etc. out of the overflow, which is key when using restricted drain lines. I also know that my backup drain can carry the full load if a blockage were to occur.

This is plumbing v2.0 for my tank. This time around I added the direct skimmer feed, as well as a T off the return pump to run to the chiller on my patio. I'm very happy with the way things are working now.

BTW, how is that purple frag doing? I really liked the color of it.

-Jeff

[Bax]

jeffbrig

I have taken volumous notes and will shamelessly plagerize your drain and pluming ideas :)

[WanaLeime]

Sorry to hijack this wonderful thread......
anyabody know the plumbing links...I would like to hard plumb my next tank and info would be nice. How do you know where to put unions and valves? sorry...newbie to plumbing...

[jeffbrig]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6755655#post6755655 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by WanaLeime
How do you know where to put unions and valves? sorry...newbie to plumbing...

Trial and error....as you can see I'm on v2.0 :D :D

Put valves on anything that you might want to turn off, unions anywhere you might want to remove something. If in doubt, add one or both whenever you have room.

Every plumbing job is somewhat unique, so you're kind of on your own to design something that meets your needs. The best advice I can give is to make it flexible and include provisions for removing/servicing/swapping equipment. Think of it this way.... you should never have to cut your plumbing or drain your sump just because a pump needs to be pulled out for cleaning.


Bax, No problem - I probably stole half the ideas from someone else....they're public domain at this point. :D Glad I could help.

[melev]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6755655#post6755655 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by WanaLeime
Sorry to hijack this wonderful thread......
anyabody know the plumbing links...I would like to hard plumb my next tank and info would be nice. How do you know where to put unions and valves? sorry...newbie to plumbing...

I documented how I did the plumbing for the sump of my 280g tank. The link to the sump & refugium is on the front page of my site. Even though it is a big tank, the plumbing is rather straight forward.

And here is another example of how to plumb a relatively simple sump:
http://www.melevsreef.com/plumb_it.jpg

Sorry Nexdog. Back to your thread.

[bigeyetuna]

[The best advice I can give is to make it flexible and include provisions for removing/servicing/swapping equipment. Think of it this way.... you should never have to cut your plumbing or drain your sump just because a pump needs to be pulled out for cleaning.
[/B]


I have an submerged pump, so I have connected a union right after the pump for easy removal for cleaning or replacing. I also feed a pipe back to my sump from the main return to help regulate flow to the main. Its a loop back. I feed my refugium from my returm pump as well. So i have a ball valve on all three of these pipe flows. Here is a diagram, I have modified on my tank, as I just have one pipe going back to the display instead of the split.

Hope this helps. Do a search on Sump / Plumbing in gallery. You may find some ideas there.
http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/500/100559Tank_Sump_Diagram_2.gif

BTW, I copied the baffle design from Melev's site. Thanks for the great site Melev.

I also use a Durso stand pipe in my overflow.

NexDog - back to your thread. Great Tank!! I can't wait until you fill it up with cool creatures!!!

[melev]

You're quite welcome, bigeyetuna. Nice drawing.

[NexDog]

Thanks for all the input. Now I'm totally confused. :D

[jeffbrig]

Glad we could help! :D :D

My work here is done.....

[H20ENG]

Bigeyetuna,
Just a friendly FYI:)
You can save power by using a ballvalve on the output of the pump, rather than diverting some flow back to the sump. The pump is working its hardest, drawing the most power at max flow. By throttling the return, you still get what you need to the tank, save pump energy (read $$), and does not hurt the pump at all.
The only exception to this is if you restricted the pump so much that it overheated the water and in turn overheated the pump. This would happen, say, if you used a Hammerhead to feed your calcium reactor:D

[bigeyetuna]

H20ENG,

That is interesting, because the information I read on RC indicated you do not want to restrict any flow of the pump as this may shorten the life. You make a very interesting point about power saving. In theory this would be true. Do you think the pump is going to work less by restricting the flow? I would think it is still going to try to spin at the same rate and therefore use the same power consumption. I would think it is an all or nothing consumption. But I am not an Electrical Engineer, so I would not know.

As you mention, the restriction on the pump at some point will cause excess heat. This would be the worst case scenario as I am already battling heat issues in the water. I do not want a chiller at this point either.

Thanks for you feedback.

[Bax]

bigeyetuna

I bought a Mag 9 to use as a return pump on my 75g but switched it to a Mag 7 as the 9 was too much flow and I think too much heat. Then you might not have to restrict it at all.

That is a sweet drawing :)

[rulesmith]

I have been told by many sources, including to electrician that I will save electricity by not using the full flow of my pump. I bought the barracuda sequence for my return. The dart just was a little too small, I was worried about the barracuda being too much, but my friends the electricians told me that by restricting the flow, I would use less electricity. I hope they are right :) Seems counter intuitive to me too.

[bigeyetuna]

Because I need to get a backup pump BEFORE something goes wrong, I may do that. I am also looking at the Ehien hobby pumps as a possible solution too.

I got the 9.5 because I knew I wanted to route some flow to the Refugium from the return pump and not knowing what head loss I would have from the return plumbing, I thought the 9.5 would be a better choice. I was also wanting the higher flow to help with the overall tank flow.

I do like the idea of less heat in the water! :-)

If I could do it all over again, I would have drilled my 20gal sump and used an external pump. I want something as quiet and low heat as possible.

[H20ENG]

Yep. hook an amp or watt meter to the pump, then dial back the flow, and you'll see it drop off. Not a huge difference, but a difference nonetheless.
You'd really have to restrict the flow to cause any heat issues.

Sorry for the hijack Laurence, just trying to save a buck when I can, even if its not my own:)

[cseeton]

It is my general recommendation to buy a pump that provides about 25% more flow that you need. Pump have there highest efficiency between 60% to 90% of full flow depending on the impellor design (every pump is a little different). The idea is to hit the system curve with the pump curve at the highest efficiency flow rate. Here is a quick link for those that need a visual...

Typical Pump Characteristic Curves (http://www.zoeller.com/zep/techbrief/JF1article.htm)

You can get some liquid electrical tape to insulate those exposed terminals. They will bite you eventually if you leave them exposed.... Just paint on the liquid electrical tape and that will provide enough insulation for incidental contact. Cover them with hard plastic if they are in an area that may see you drop something on it (like a pump or a water change bucket)...

[NexDog]

I now have all the rock in the tank and started on the aquascaping today. Unfortunately I don't have enough rock so have ordered more from AquaPlanning in Okinawa. Left island is complete but the right island and center section are still too low. One more box of rock should do it.

http://japanreef.com/images/build/tank_front_feb-20th-a.jpg

http://japanreef.com/images/build/tank_front_feb-20th-b.jpg

Left side:

http://japanreef.com/images/build/tank-left.jpg

Middle so far:

http://japanreef.com/images/build/tank-middle.jpg

Camera doesn't really show the detail but there's many place to attach corals on the sides of the islands and the space under the rack makes for nice havens for the fish. Looking forward to finishing it off the rock then adding a few hundreds astreas and nassarius and adding sand. Still waiting on the sand - just impossible to get marine type sand here at the moment and I've had some on order for a month.

Still hoping to get my first shipment of coral next month but we'll see. The tank's been wet about 10 weeks now so I don't think I'm doing too bad. Amazes me to see pics of some people's tanks a few months after setup and they looked fully stocked. :p

Got an order coming in from MarineDepot this week with bits and pieces I need including hose barb fittings for the CL in the frag section. Will hook up the drains to the skimmer this week which I hope will rid me of the microbubbles and then I'll be well onb my way. :)

[Bax]

Looks great, does that rock include the base pieces you made yourself?

[melev]

Very nice. That giant clam shell is amazing. Was that part of the LR order or was it a clam you used to keep in the past?

[NexDog]

Many thanks for your kind words. I'm still kind of uncertain about it and how it will turn out so it's nice to get some encouragement. I'm also somewhat limited in aquascaping possibilities due to those racks which in hindsight are a little bit too big really. Camera sucks and I really want to get something decent like a Rebel XT but damn, more expense. Not only do we spend thousands on these setups, we gotta spend thousands to share that enjoyment in the way of decent photos. :D

Bax, I ended up ditching most of the bits I made myself as I wanted as much LR in there as possible to make the most of biological qualities. If you look closely you can see the bottom piece in from the left rack is the aragocrete. I only didn't remove that piece as I had already made that bit and aquascaping is not my favourite part of this hobby so anything to minimise time there. :p Also I kept the middle pieces as I realised by then that I wasn't going to have enough. But you won't be able to notice any of it and it's already blending in with some coraline growth.

Marc, that clam shell just came in with the LR order. I might embed it into the right island or middle section when I finish it off with the next shipment. Might be able to some kind of cool overhang with it or something.

I'm just building this with the final picture in mind which is two islands totally covered in SPS with some LPS in the sand and lower sections of the rock. Guess we'll see in 6-7 months if it works out. :)

[NexDog]

By the way, I took the photos with just the power compacts on. Two broke already (cracked) so I ordered 6 more from Premium Aquatics just in case half didn't make it. Well, 2 did break in transit but I guess that's just the price I got to pay. Anyway, these new 96w PC's are totally different. The old ones were purple but these ones are more blue. I have 2 of each in there at the moment and the colour is so much brighter than before. The old purple ones look dull next to these. Is this kind of variation in PC's normal?

[JayS]

Looking good, thanks for the full tank shots (I love those).

[enamdjd]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6727046#post6727046 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by tony13
No I was asking enamdjd about AFY. Didn't mean to confuse everyone. I guess they're busy but I'm two months past the original due date, I'm wondering if this a "normal" thing for them.
Tony

AFY stated 8 to 10 weeks and it took 15 weeks. I personally visited the shop on a Saturday morning to give him the plywood template for my custom 2" 11ga steel stand and my OM 1" flexible nozzles for the overflow boxes. Being proactive is key with most of these aquarium trade people.

However, when unwrapping the cellophane from the tank, I did find multiple external circular buffing scratches on the lower 1/4 of the front panel and the middle of the sides of my custom acrylic 225g tank. Mr. John Stevenson, Jr. had promised to send an independent contractor to finish his unfinished work and still has not. This weekend we communicated via email and I reminded him that I have been patient and he has been paid in full for several months. Furthermore, I reminded him that despite my proclivity to give my business to a family owned business and our cordial interaction, I am an attorney and will proceed with legal action if he does not rectify this lack of performance. I hate this crap. People should just take pride in their work and respond promptly when they screw-up. Keeping clients in the dark will only create animosity and lack of trust. As a physician I have always kept my patients abreast of any unforseen detours in care. I do not wait for them to contact me. It is unprofessional and simply inconsiderate.

Anyway, my final personal judgement on AFY is still pending and I certainly hope for their sake and mine, they live up to the gentleman-like impression they have given when we have interacted in person.

Hence, fax them, email them, visit them. Simply document your attempts to communicate your concern with the other party of your contract in case things go awry.

Good luck.
Dr. A.

[melev]

Power compact bulbs are rather brittle, and cheaper bulbs (on clearance) tend to last 6 months at best. I would think these vendors would pack your stuff extra well since it has to travel to Japan.

Btw, aren't cameras cheaper where you are located? It seems like many are built in your part of the world.

[NexDog]

Trouble is I can't understand how they work as my technical Japanese reading is pretty poor. So a camera in English is a must.

[melev]

Don't worry about that. We have plenty of people here that can help you figure out the camera once you have it. And some even know Japanese. :)

[JayS]

Maybe Amazon Japan has english versions, not sure can't read it myself. :)

http://www.amazon.co.jp

[NexDog]

Guys, I'm at my wits end. :(

The drains are now hooked into the skimmer and I have minimal flow through the sump. 90% of the microbubbles in the sump are gone...

Yet I still have a cloud of microbubbles in the display. I turned off the CL through the bottom racks and it seemed to create even more bubbles. This is so disheartening.

[melev]

Perhaps this isn't sump related at all, and rather a tiny leak in your return line somewhere.

If you have anti siphon holes, are they fully submerged? If you have locline, is it fully submerged? All all connections that are out of the water glued or taped with teflon tape on threaded connections?

[NexDog]

Yea, everything threaded was done up with tape. When I redid the skimmer plumbing I went over all the PVC joints with excessive glue due to make sure. The only thing left to do is redo all the taped connections I guess.

Another thought though. I turned off the ereturn pump today and the big Sequence that powers the racks CL for about 2 hours. The microbubbles didn't disperse at all. With no flow in the tank they were just suspended there and not moving at all. No it is possible the microbubbles just haven't worked out of the system yet?

[kimoyo]

Are you sure they're microbubbles and not dust particles (ex. sand from rocks shedding)? Do you see them with both the halides and powercompacts?

[NexDog]

Yea, microbubbles for sure. Can see them in the dark too. :p

[melev]

If you still saw microbubbles with the return pump off, then your problem maybe isolated to the closed loop system. Don't give up; we'll keep trying to help you figure out the solution.

[NexDog]

Yea, but I turned the CL pump off and still had bubbles. I think I have such low flow in the tank at present that it's going to take time for the bubbles to disperse....

[rdmpe]

Try this - dip out some of the bubbley (technical term) water into a clear drinking glass and watch it for a couple of minutes in bright light. The bubbles should migrate to the surface within a few minutes IMO. If not, you may have particulates rather than bubbles...

[NexDog]

Okay, will try that tomorrow.....

[LoneStarSA]

Any luck on that experiment?

[NexDog]

Yah, definitely microbubbles. And I can even see bubbles (large ones) coming out the returns so there's air in there. :(

[NexDog]

Few updates. I got another box of rock and cured it for a while and I put it in the main tank today. So I'm going to finish the aquascaping tomorrow and put the sand in. I had the carpenters over the other day and they built a platform behind the tank so I can work in the back. It swings down out the way when not in use.

http://japanreef.com/images/build/platform.jpg

I received another freebie clam from the live rock guys so anyone want to venture an ID? It's kind of blue/green in colour:

http://japanreef.com/images/build/small_clam.jpg

I started to put sand in but just on the left as that section is pretty much finished. Didn't put the rest in yet as I don't want the rock making a mess when I aquascape tomorrow. What I did was put a length of 2" in the tank, cut off the bottom of a coke bottle to use as a funnel and then poured the sand in - worked like a charm, no sandstorm. :bum:

http://japanreef.com/images/build/sandpipe2.jpg

http://japanreef.com/images/build/sandpipe.jpg

[NexDog]

And for the heck of it, a few fishy shots. :)

http://japanreef.com/images/build/clowns_nem1.jpg

http://japanreef.com/images/build/clowns_nem2.jpg

http://japanreef.com/images/build/yellowtang.jpg

I put 100 Astreas in the other day and they cleaned up the rock and the tank bottom nicely. Still battling microbubbles but haven't really attempted to find a solution.

More shots tomorrow I guess.

[Kent E]

Looks great, and its coming along real well!

[NexDog]

Thanks Kent. One more for the heck of it. This is the rest of the rock piled up on the right island ready for auascaping tomorrow. Really does put the 30" height into perspective.

http://japanreef.com/images/build/tank_front_march_11th.jpg

[melev]

I don't see the microbubbles in your fishy shots. Didn't you say it was occuring when the closed loop was on and the main return was off?

[NexDog]

I guess the problem isn't that bad to be able to be picked up on camera and they look worse under the halides (those were taken under PCs only). I turned the pump off and still had bubbles. I turned the CL off and I seemed to get even more bubbles. But I can see bubbles shooting out the right return pipe and the problem seems slightly worse on that side. I'm going to replumb the pump this weekend to see if that helps.

[Ginzo]

Hey NextDog,

That's a great idea for putting in the stand ...thanks for the tip, I'm definetily going to do that once my tank is up and running !

:D

[Ginzo]

Hey NextDog,

Great idea for the sand integration. I'm going to do that when I put up my tank !

Thanks !

:D

[alien9168]

Great tank!! :D

I love how it is recessed into your wall...really a cool effect! :D

-alien

[tony13]

NexDog I like your aquascape, it gives it the boomie effect like you see diving .

Dr A, I'm coming up on 5 months. Finally went down tues. to see what's going on and they just started it. John Sr is sick, the glass was scratched, blah blah blah. I told them their customer service needs to be worked on and not to keep everyone in the dark. All I got were more excuses and it'll be done in two weeks. Yeah I heard that before.

[enamdjd]

I was told John Jr. was sick and could not talk to me! They hired someone called Bill to deal with customer service, ext. 300, who finally is sending one of their workers to my house tomorrow to polish out the scratches. But check this out, I have to drive into Manhattan and pick the fellow up and drive him to my home in Queens. Then I have to drive the guy back to Manhattan when he is done. I don't think they could ask for a more cooperative client. At least I will have the president of BAS in my home making me a custom 125 gallon sump to replace my totally inadequate new MRC reef sump at the same time. He can serve as a witness if the polisher over does it on the tank and adds waves to the front panel. It just never ends when people don't take pride in their workmanship.

[tony13]

enamdjd,
While your chauffeuring him around remind him of other unsatisfied customers, maybe things will change down the road.
BAS is a great org. My wife and I used to go years ago when Seth was the pres. Now the traffic is to much of a pain.
Good luck and let me know how it goes.

[Bax]

NexDog

Tank is looling good! That is great that your LR supplier considers clams as hitchhikers! That one looks like a crocea to me.

[ricordiaking]

More, more pics:)

[dgasmd]

The microbubbles may improve or completely disappear in the future just on their own as the inside of the pipes and such get colonized with bacteria. A very common source of microbubbles with close loops is the pump connections itself. Also, if the pump's seals are leaking a tiny bit they will draw in air too.

[NexDog]

I really want to do the rock and replumb that pump today if I get away from my damn 24 hours a day, 7 days a week job.

[Bax]

Hey, it pays for reefing :)

[NexDog]

Aye, that is does. :D

Well, found a few hours to finish the aquascape. And I tell ya, it really feels good because now I can really move on and start stocking. Because I don't have much sand real estate I decided to put that moster Squamosa on the rockwork - at the back in the middle. Hope it'll be happy up there. I'm still getting alot of shedding from teh LR so it might be premature putting sand but I decided to go ahead anyway and I'll just siphon as I need. I took a few shots under PC lighting only unfortunately and before I put the sand in. I'll take some more tomorrow under the halides.

http://japanreef.com/images/build/tank_front_march_12th.jpg

Left:


http://japanreef.com/images/build/tank_left_march_12th.jpg

Middle with the clam:


http://japanreef.com/images/build/tank_middle_clam_march_12th.jpg

Right:


http://japanreef.com/images/build/tank_right_march_12th.jpg

I think I've achieved my objective of 2 islands connected by a back wall with space on all 4 sides of each island. I think it will look great when covered in coral and this is really great for fish. I want to stock heavy and this aquascape really breaks up the rockwork with plenty of territories plus there's the space under the racks - so lots of space for fish to get lost.

My LTA split today which I'm a bit gutted about.

http://japanreef.com/images/build/split_nem.jpg

[dgasmd]

Oh my god, you are going to start getting 50 emails and PM daily about the aquascape looking boring, like a pile of rocks, not artistic enough, blah blah blah..... Why do I think that sounds familiar............

[alien9168]

dgasmd- I def. dont think its boring...I am partial to the big pile of rocks look :D


But people are -- as u said, quite overcritical of fellow reefers "drab" pile of rocks style aquascaping. :D

But as I said, I am partial to this look! :D

-alien

[dgasmd]

I know. It was a very sarcastic comment as I could care less what the rock structure look like. I care about what the tank looks like when it is full of grown corals.

[NexDog]

I don't care what it looks like now. I'm designing this with the end picture in mind which is an underwater island garden with lots of free swimming room for fish. Look at all the fantastic tanks on RC and you can hardly see the rock.....

With this system I was slightly limited due to the racks and also the rock was so small really. But this is 70% BB so I'm hoping the racks will assist in keeping the nitrates down and plus I have sand. So racks + 360 degree space around the rock = hugely stocked and beautiful tank. :)

[dgasmd]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6936280#post6936280 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by NexDog
I don't care what it looks like now. I'm designing this with the end picture in mind which is an underwater island garden with lots of free swimming room for fish. Look at all the fantastic tanks on RC and you can hardly see the rock.....

This is almost a quote from what I said to people all the time. You see all this people that have all these contraptions and elaborate rock arrangements and then they can't even put corals in because it is very inpractical. I am with you. I am not keeping a tank to look at a bunch of rock formations but rather to the nice corals on top of them. When they grow and fill in you cannot see anything below it, which is always the goal anyway!!:lol: :lol: :lol:

[alien9168]

I really do like the rock structure...Im not putting it down :D

This tank will be beutiful, and I have no doubt that your fish will love the swimming space...As I said, this tank as a whole is incredible...from layout to contents! :D
=)
-alien

[NexDog]

I actually like how it looks like now too. It's all going to plan afaik.

By the way, I'm dumping the other two CLs and have pre-ordered two Vortech pumps from Aquarium Speciality (http://www.aquariumspecialty.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=422&osCsid=d9b2e3ae3a308375eaa70eeec3cbe763). Hoping to get them next month. :)

[NexDog]

Also, many thanks to all for your kind words. It really helps motivate and sharing here on RC is half the experience for me.

[dgasmd]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6936622#post6936622 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by NexDog
I actually like how it looks like now too. It's all going to plan afaik.

By the way, I'm dumping the other two CLs and have pre-ordered two Vortech pumps

Why not just add the vortechs and put the CL to come on for 3-6 hours per day once per day? That way you don't have to replumb anything, use the pumps you already set up and pad for, and a good bit of motion and chaotic flow for a few hours of the day. Just a suggestion! I may end up doing this myself with my current CL and 8 tunzes I just got.:D

[alien9168]

Those vortechs look pretty cool and theyre not as expensive as tunze. .. How do they stack up to turbelles....or are they completly dfifferent?

THanks! :D

-alien

[Bax]

Looks great! I'll be very interested to see how you like the vortech PHs

[NexDog]

Here's a series of pics illustrating the microbubble issue. First is looking towards the top left:

http://japanreef.com/images/stock/microbubbles2.jpg

Here is a close-up of the right return which is a cut-off male adapter screwed into the flange bulkhead. You can just make out the bubbles shooting out. Those bubbles are big but the mere fact that bubbles are shooting out must mean this is the source of the smaller microbubbles:

http://japanreef.com/images/stock/microbubbles3.jpg

Compared to the left return with nothing shooting out (or maybe just can't see as I didn't cut that one off).

http://japanreef.com/images/stock/microbubbles4.jpg

[NexDog]

Okay, some shots of the tank under halides....

http://japanreef.com/images/stock/tank_front_march_13th.jpg

Left Island:

http://japanreef.com/images/stock/left_island.jpg

Right Island:

http://japanreef.com/images/stock/right_island.jpg

Some profile shots to illustrate shape and depth of the rock structure:

http://japanreef.com/images/stock/middle_profile1.jpg

http://japanreef.com/images/stock/middle_profile2.jpg

Right side - love that 3ft depth. And there's a 5" space at the back.....

http://japanreef.com/images/stock/right_profile.jpg

[NexDog]

And finally today a few pic of a few corals. Here is freebie acro colony I got from the LR supplier. Polyps started to extend a few hours after being transferred from the sump:

http://japanreef.com/images/stock/acropora1.jpg

http://japanreef.com/images/stock/acropora2.jpg

Here is the remaining brain. Not fully extended as it's still a bit disgruntled about being handled from the sump:

http://japanreef.com/images/stock/brain2.jpg

The clam up on the rock:

http://japanreef.com/images/stock/squamosa.jpg

And still need a positive ID on this little clam as I did have him on some rocks and he attached. Does he belong on rock?

http://japanreef.com/images/stock/clam.jpg

And the split anenome and confused Clarkii's.

http://japanreef.com/images/stock/clowns_nem1.jpg

[jetaero]

Nice tank!!!

[NexDog]

Thanks Josh. :D

[akirasan]

Hi Laurence, that's a T. Crocea you're putting on your sand bed. They are generally considered 'high light' clams, but with your 400 watters, I don't think that would be much of an issue :D

[NexDog]

Ah okay, thanks. I think Bax said it was a Crocea a few pages back. I think Croceas are more fond of a rock setting than sound?

[NexDog]

Two months ago I bought 6 fish - a CBB, PBT, 6-Line, Longnose Hawk, Flame Angel and a Juvie Emp and put them in quarantine to treat with hypo. Well, it was a complete disaster. I had this HOB fuge which was a remant from the days when the tank was my main tank and it had a ton of detritus that was rotting away. One day my tank started getting cloudy so I did some water changes but nothing helped. It's funny because the HOB fuge was right there but I simply didn't check it. Then a week later I did and I saw this white misty layer near the bottom. When I siphoned it out the smell was incredible. Talking rotting corpses here - nasty.

The QT never recovered really no matter how many water changes I did. I was stuck with green water, nitrate/nitrite spikes etc. The CBB died right away anyway but I believe the PBT and Longnose died because of this and the 6-Line simply disappeared one day. It must have jumped and maybe my daughter's dog ate it. Another thing is that it jumped into the Remora Pro because in my attempt to rid the tank of green water I cleaned it out. Maybe I didn't see it and down the sink it went. It will be something that will always bother me. :p

Anyhow, the Flame Angel was looking real bad so I cut the hypo cycle short (10 days short of the 6 week mark) and started to raise the salinity. The Juvie Emp must be hard as nails as he never flinched throughout. I put them in the main tank today after lights out. :)

These pics are pretty lame because as there was no light but anyway.....

http://japanreef.com/images/stock/flame.jpg

http://japanreef.com/images/stock/emperor.jpg

As expected, the coral beauty is pretty miffed at the appearance of another dwarf angel. But the tank is so big and the rockwork done so well ( :p ) that the CB has to be looking hard and the flame angel can hide easy. Seem a few confrontations but I'm happy the tank will do its job and keep agression down. The coral beauty is bigger and they'll soon work out the pecking order.

[cseeton]

A quick fix for you microbubbles - if you have an air leak and one of your joints - is to put some silicone on your finger and wipe and small amount on each joint (all the way around). The negative pressure will try to draw the silicon into the joint and when it cures, your leak will be plugged.

Chris

[NexDog]

I did reseal with PVC glue but no joy. I need to redo the pump connections and the bulkhead connections and then I'm out of ideas. I''s not terrible. I could live with it - just wouldn't be perfect.

[BrianPlankis]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6941888#post6941888 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by NexDog
And finally today a few pic of a few corals. Here is freebie acro colony I got from the LR supplier. Polyps started to extend a few hours after being transferred from the sump:

http://japanreef.com/images/stock/acropora1.jpg

http://japanreef.com/images/stock/acropora2.jpg



Does anyone else think this coral is actually a softie coral and not an acro? The structure and base devoid of polyps looks wrong for an Acropora species. Softies are too hard to ID for me, but it could any of the following: "leather", "colt", etc....

Brian

[jeffbrig]

Interesting point, I can't tell from the photo. By shape it could be either. If it's an acro, the polyps just aren't extending at the base of the colony.

[NexDog]

It does feel soft actually. When the lights are out it retracts quite alot. Anyone want to venture an ID?

[BrianPlankis]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6946536#post6946536 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by NexDog
It does feel soft actually. When the lights are out it retracts quite alot. Anyone want to venture an ID?

I've got Borneman's book at home, I'll try to remember to look through it and put up a guess, but best bet would be to ask Borneman himself.

Brian

[cmondo]

Looks like a finger leather to me.

[jeffbrig]

I just checked Borneman's book, looks most like a Lobophytum sp. (finger leather)

[NexDog]

Yah, looks like it could be...

http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=646&N=0

[NexDog]

Turns out the Coral Beauty and Flame Angel are fine together. The first night the CB chased the Flame Angel about a bit but the next day they'd be swimming in the same area and there's no agression whatsoever.

I'm going to order some SPS from a great shop in Tokyo tomorrow or Friday. :D

[jeffb3t]

Nexdog, Regarding the 2nd clam you got. They are native to Okinawa, are usually found deeply embedded in the rocks and often completely exposed during low tide. I see them quite often when I go reef walking. Glad to hear you got your rock from Aquaplanning. Great shop and always hook me up with discounts or freebies. There are a couple other shops here but that one is my favorite.

[jeffb3t]

Nexdog, Regarding the 2nd clam you got. They are native to Okinawa, are usually found deeply embedded in the rocks and often completely exposed during low tide. I see them quite often when I go reef walking. Glad to hear you got your rock from Aquaplanning. Great shop and always hook me up with discounts or freebies. There are a couple other shops here but that one is my favorite.

[Psyire]

I have the same 'leather'.

It's a Sinularia.

(thought you might want to know)

[NexDog]

Jeff, Aquaplanning is definitely a top shop. Do they sell coral or fish because I need to start stocking. I know of PPMOkinawa for corals and inverts but again - no fish. If youy know of any shop in Okinawa that sells fish and is online - please word me up!

Psyire - yea, but it's a really nice leather. Not going to do any other softies though but I like this one. :)

[jeffb3t]

Nexdog, They do sell coral and fish. The problem is that they have a fast turnover on the coral so the best bet would be to call and ask them when the shipment is due to arrive and what they are expecting. As far as fish, They have some f the healthiest fish for a LFS. Mostly due to the fact they are mostly caught locally so less stress involved since there is no shipping and just an hour drive from the ocean to the tank. Again it would be best to call them and find out what kind of fish they can get for you. PPM has some pretty nice coral and will probably be able to get most kinds of fish as well. I have been following your thread and look forward to building my own nice size reef. Right now I'm deciding between a 150 and a 180 that will be shipped from mainland. Which brings me to my next question of why didn't you special order a tank from one of the many acrylic shops in mainland? Shipping from the states costs a fortune. My next tank is still about a year away but the planning and purchasing starts now.

[NexDog]

I actually just found the fish section on AquaPlanning and gave them a call. The have some really unusual fish too but some aren't so reef safe (Triggers, Filefish). I've decided that I'm going to get 6 Lyretail Anthias and a Powder Blue on my next batch (ordering today from Natural in Tokyo) and a bunch or SPS from there too. Might grab some LPS from PPM too and some sand burrowing snails.

As for the tank - mainly because (a) I don't know any acrylic tank builders in Japan and (b) even if I did, explaining what I want might be tough. It took about 20 emails back and forth with James at Envision and 5 lengthy phone calls to decide on everything and doing all that in Japanese would be difficult although not impossible. :)

[jeffb3t]

Yeah, I understand about the language barrier part and how it will be difficult to tell them exactly what you want so I am designing everything in AutoCAD which is nice to be able to make a complete drawing that is accurate with the dimensions and all but simple enough for anyone to understand. Even the external overflow I want on it will be easy to understand since all they have to do is cut out the pieces to the dimensions I drew. Basically I plan to send whoever makes my tank a complete set of drawings just like you would have on a house only not as many pages. My plan is to go for a room divider with both sides and one end viewable. This will be a challenge to build but with a CAD program it is so much easier and more accurate.

[NexDog]

When you find a builder and start the project, please let me know. I see a something monstrous in my future if things continue to go well. :)

[NexDog]

Posted this is the main forum but not getting any response as of yet........

I'm sure we all siphon at some point. In my case it's siphoning sand or siphoning out detritus from the sump. But when I siphon I like to not waste any water so until now I've been using an old Eheim cannister filter rated at about 110gph. It works but it's hard work. Takes a great deal of sucking to get the siphon going as the motor is so weak. Other than that it does work great. But sometimes it takes about 20 mins just to get the thing working....so I need other ideas (and cheap ). I found this Hagen Flual cannister which is rated at 340gph and is $100 approx:

http://www.marinedepot.com/md_viewI...product=HG10215

Not sure if that would work but I don't see why it wouldn't? I need a strong motor due to the tank height (30"). So if you are doing a similar thing - what are you using?

[NexDog]

I just ordered 6 female lyretail anthias and a powder blue tang from a shop in Toko. Hopefully this next QT cycle will go better than the last!

Also ordered my first 7 SPS corals. Few I wanted turned out to be gone already but the ones before were available and they'll be coming down on Sunday too. :)

http://natyu.ne.jp/seitai/0203-05.jpg

http://natyu.ne.jp/seitai/0203-16.jpg

http://natyu.ne.jp/seitai/0308-05.jpg

http://natyu.ne.jp/seitai/0307-07.jpg

http://natyu.ne.jp/seitai/0310-47.jpg

http://natyu.ne.jp/seitai/0310-29.jpg

http://natyu.ne.jp/seitai/0310-23.jpg

[melev]

Laurence,

I would use a larger pump (like a Rio, believe it or not) and add some long tubing to the intake side, and more tubing on the output. Put the output tubing into a filter sock, and then use the intake tubing to suck the sump clean of detritus and sand. The sock catches everything and you don't lose a drop of water.

The larger pump works out well because it doesn't clog up when something small and hard is sucked up, like an empty cerith shell.

Lovely corals. SCORE!

[NexDog]

I tried that with an MJ 1200 and it didn't works too well. But I think I just had too much detritus and the filter sock got clogged too quickly.....

Hey, how much would those corals be in the US? I paid around $75 per colony on average. But I'm going to frag most of them immediately and put in the grow-out so I can place in the display later in the year and save cash. At $75 a pop - my God, think how much it would cost to fill my tank!

[melev]

Yes, that does sound kind of high. I shop around, and while I do see corals selling for $69 to $89 each, I look for stuff that costs $40 to $45.

If you frag them, and yet want to keep them in the display tank, then break them in two and put each piece in different locations. That way if you lose one for any reason, you've got the other half still growing happily in your tank.

[SERVO]

Too bad you didn't live a little closer and we could give you frags! But on the bright side.....You can go to Okinawa easier than I can!

[SERVO]

Do you guys have St. Patricks Day? LOL

[newtophish]

Nexdog, Just spent a couple of hours reading the entire thread. Great job, everything looks fantastic. The prior planning seems to have paid off. Can not wait to follow along with you on the rest of your trip.

[melev]

newtophish,

[welcome]

Where are you located in Texas?

[newtophish]

Marc, I am located in Gunter.

[Bax]

Nice lookin corals NexDog

[Pewe]

Hola,

Nice new Corals!!!

Yes, that does sound kind of high. I shop around, and while I do see corals selling for $69 to $89 each, I look for stuff that costs $40 to $45.
High?, ufff we here in Mexico paid around $100, we spend "mucho" more here :(

[agarza]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6978603#post6978603 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Pewe

High?, ufff we here in Mexico paid around $100, we spend "mucho" more here :(

And then some more, but I'm not complaining I love this hobby and every cent used on the tank is well worth it.

Cheers

[alien9168]

agaraza- thats the spirit :D

If i had that mentality, it would make my life way easier every time i droped some cash at the lfs lol :D

way to go man! :D

-alien

[jumboshrimp18]

NexDog: glad it's all coming together. Very nice corals.
I would opt to have more openings, caves and passages in the rockwork. I just think you would find it more interesting in several years when everything grows out.

[jeffb3t]

Nexdog, I went to PPM Today and all they have is coral. No fish there so your best bet is to order from Aquaplanning if you order from Okinawa. Have you found any place that has chaeto? I would like to get some for my fuge.

[NexDog]

I ordered some fish and coral yesterday from Natural in Tokyo and the box arrived at 2pm. All fish survived and the corals are stunning. I'm going to prepare a big update to this thread after the sumo musubinoichiban in a few minutes. :)

As for macro, I don't think you can get Chaeto in Japan. I use Grape Caulerpa which I ordered from a shop in Okinawa actually. It's called "Umi Budo" (Sea Grapes) and you should be able to find it easily in some speciality food place as it's considered somewhat of a delicacy I think.

[NexDog]

So....BIG day for me....and all done on a hangover after a 10 hour bender last night. :D

As I mentioned before, I ordered those corals and 7 fish (6 female lyretail anthias and a PBT). After 24 hours in transit in your standard LFS fish bag, all arrived alive and very healthy. I was expecting bigger bags or something and I would never have believed that a fish could survive 24 hours in a standard bag half-full of water. One small downer was that the red monti cap was sold out from under me so they sent me a smaller acro for free to make up for it. I love this shop!

THE BOX

http://japanreef.com/images/stock/natural_box1.jpg

THE BAGS

http://japanreef.com/images/stock/natural_box2.jpg

THE LYRETAILS

http://japanreef.com/images/stock/acclimatise_lyretails.jpg

THE LYRETAILS AND PBT in QT

http://japanreef.com/images/stock/QT_lyretails_PBT.jpg

[NexDog]

THE CORALS

http://japanreef.com/images/stock/newsps2.jpg

http://japanreef.com/images/stock/newsps3.jpg

http://japanreef.com/images/stock/newsps5.jpg

http://japanreef.com/images/stock/newsps6.jpg

http://japanreef.com/images/stock/newsps7.jpg

THE FREE ACRO

http://japanreef.com/images/stock/newsps4.jpg

THE DIP

http://japanreef.com/images/stock/reefdip.jpg

[NexDog]

THE PLACEMENT

http://japanreef.com/images/stock/corals1_march_19th.jpg

http://japanreef.com/images/stock/corals2_march_19th.jpg

http://japanreef.com/images/stock/corals3_march_19th.jpg

http://japanreef.com/images/stock/corals4_march_19th.jpg

http://japanreef.com/images/stock/corals5_march_19th.jpg

[NexDog]

THE OUTCOME

http://japanreef.com/images/stock/left_island_march_19th.jpg

http://japanreef.com/images/stock/right_island_march_19th.jpg

http://japanreef.com/images/stock/left_island_corals_march_19th.jpg

[NexDog]

THE TANK

http://japanreef.com/images/stock/tank_front_march_19th.jpg

[NexDog]

I'm hoping to get 6 or 7 per month so by the end of the year it should be looking pretty. You can't even see the new corals in the full tank tank but the green SPS are really bright. The two larger purple colonies browned up a bit in transit but I'm sure they'll colour up quick under the 400w 14k bulbs.

Lastly, can someone attempt any IDs? Vague as acropora or millipora is fine by me because I have no clue. :p

[Aussiestar]

can i come for a holiday to visit, your tank is amazing. Xant wait till i have something like that one day

[steve68]

looking great.
i hope that as ur tank matures the anemones dont start to move, mine did & i lost some nice acros in one day, after that i learn my lesson no anemones in a SPS tant,
good luck.

[akirasan]

Dang Laurence, your tank is looking better and better with each update! Just to let you know, your tank has been a great source of inspiration and ideas for my own upgrade due in a couple of months. I look forward to reading your thread on RC each time I log on. Keep those updates frequent!

As for IDs, I might be wrong, but I'll give it a shot.
From the picture after your PBT and lyretail QT:
#1 - A. Formosa
#3,4 - Valida?
#5 A. Gemmifera

[NexDog]

Steve - yea, aware of the risk but my anenome never moves. It just split which worries me but the two halves are staying right next to each other for now......

akirasan - thanks. :D Should have an update like this once a month if finances hold together anyway. I'm thinking about getting some softies from a place in Okinawa but will run that past some RC'ers first. I would like to get some more eye candy to put in the sand (Maze, Anchor, Torch, Hammer, Bubble) but haven't seen any available in the usual places for a while. Thanks for the IDs. I might also post in the SPS forum to get confirmation.

The green SPS really pop out under the PCs. Unfortunately my digital camera is so poor it just doesn't do them justice but I tried. :p

http://japanreef.com/images/stock/coral_under_pc_1.jpg

http://japanreef.com/images/stock/coral_under_pc_2.jpg

http://japanreef.com/images/stock/coral_under_pc_3.jpg

http://japanreef.com/images/stock/tank_from_corner1.jpg

[Bax]

Real nice NexDog ... Looks gtreat!