Zoanthid Mortality, A discussion

[MUCHO REEF]

We've all experienced this at one time or another. A frag or colony that has prospered for weeks, months and yes even years, yet suddenly it rapidly declines. Often it begins with a single polyp, a small cluster of polyps, or the entire colony that won't expand. Zoos that are of mat form ( very short polyps extending roughly less than 1/4" ) begin to cup and slowly dissolve. Zooanthids and Palythoas with longer tentacle will also retract, followed by stems ( stolons ), which appear pinched and collapsed. Often zoos will retract for short periods of time as a means of cleaning themselves externally, this is very normal. I have experienced this many times, but the colony always springs back to life in less than a week. As long as the polyp retains its natural appearance, its texture, with no odor, no visible signs of decline ( flaking off of tissue/rapid degradation, predation, bacterial infection or fungus, it will be fine. The key however is recognizing the difference between the two. Just because a colony is retracted, it doesn't necessarily warrant a dip. Close visual inspection in the tank as well as outside of the tank is the best action to take.

Lets say you have a 4" x 4" colony of pink zoos, in the center of the colony you have 6 polyps that are retracted. Should you dip? NO. That is a sure sign of an irritant, a snail, a crab, etc, but not necessarily a predator. I would be dipping constantly if that were the case in my tank. Inverts will crawl over a zoo and the retraction will appear the same as it would a nudi or a Sundial snail. If it were a nudi, several polyps if not the entire colony will retract. If I'm not sure, I slowly remove the colony to inspect it and dip just for piece of mind. However, it you have 6 polyps that are retracting and there's something on your polyps that is so small that you can't determine what it is, Yes, dip that puppy ASAP. Knowing which zoos that are prone BI is equally important. I found a stunning pink colony two weeks ago at a LFS. The colony/rock was the size of a football and loaded. The price was $ 115 and loaded with hot pink zoos with yellow eyes. I'm sure many of you are aware of this morph. Well, it's prone to BI and fungus. Knowing this, I told the store that I wanted to buy it but I would come back next week since it had just arrived a few days earlier. I knew from experience an awful lot about this morph. I expressed to the person helping me exactly what I've just stated about this morph. Well, I went back last weekend, yep you guessed it, there were 3 patches of BI a full 1 inch in diameter each on the colony. On the left, the far right and the very bottom of the face of the colony. The only hope to save it is to frag it, surgically remove all of the BI plus 3 surrounding rows of zoos, followed by a dip. I could have blown a $ 115 on a colony that I would have had to fight to save. Mind you, it was perfectly healthy just days before.

Getting back to the topic, so what causes this rapid onset of failure. Is it a deficiency, a parameter that's too high or too low, is it salinity, is it a lack of current. Could it be P.A.R values ? Or...................could it be stress related. Is there a common thread that all of use share who have lost a colony that was otherwise perfectly healthy. Ruling out those colonies which are placed next to more aggressive sting corals. We're talking about a single healthy colony sitting dead center of other healthy zoos. I would like to hear what my fellow reefers think about this. Does anyone have any supporting documentation or success with reversing this process? What are your speculations? How did it progress in your tank? Is it something we did?

I have a question, does anyone use a power head to blow off your zoos once a week? Sounds crazy ? Grab a Maxi jet 900 or 1200 and blow off your colonies and see what happens.

Lets discuss this and see what we all have/had in common when a zoo colony suddenly died for no apparent reason. Could the answer be right here?

Mucho

[MarvinsReef]

I'm a fairly new zoa collector (inspired by Mucho's TOTM winning zoa/ric tank).. I'm very excited to learn more about zoas so this is a great topic for us novices...

Sorry, no input as of yet.

[Nuhtty]

Mucho

I would like to thank you for starting this thread...very important topic IMO.

I take a turkey baster and "Wash" my zoo colonies at least twice a week.

I dont blast them because I dont want them to close up right away.

I give them a few gentle currents then I will be more forceful to get any other stuff that may be between polyps.

Thus far (knock on wood) I have never lost a single zoo. Some of the colonies I have double and spread rapidly and there are others which have literally only gained a few polyps in 8-10 months.

I have also had good luck in my tank with polyps that other people said were dead...a few days, sometimes weeks, in my tank and wouldnt ya know it...polyps start opening up.

I do FW dips on all new arrivals, whether from a friends tank or not and meticulously inspect each individual polyp (MUCH easier with small frags!!) for anything I dont like.

I pluck any questionably polyps...sometimes I get more carried away if I have a large frag to play with.

Anyway, thats my habit...not sure if there is any reason to my madness, but thus far it has worked well for me.

In about 2 months I will be moving from 4x39w T5s to 2x250w MHs with Actinic VHOs.

I dont expect any issues...in fact I expect even more growth.

[tekknoschtev]

On colonies that I can pick up and visually inspect (the ones that havent spread to another rock and would require tearing them off to do so) I pick them up and take a powerhead and wash them. Its amazing the crap that comes flying out the holes in the rock some times. The powerhead I use is a JBJ 1800, so its about 300gph. I do first fan the colony to get the polyps to close up. On colonies that are too large or cant be disturbed I bring the powerhead to them.

::knock on wood:: I havent had any of my large colonies start doing what you have described, however, I did have a colony I purchased go south pretty quick. Even fragging and dipping didnt save them. I did save three frags though, that hopefully will grow out. I did have a frag of about 20 polyps of Ked's Reds develope a white fungus like growth on them and they for whatever reason started to fall apart. I ended up fragging them onto three rocks. One rock contained the zoanthids with the white splotches on them, and the other two were the clean zoanthids. All of them made it. So who knows.

Correction - I did have that happen on my first colony of zoanthids. 4 months into it, they just started dissapearing. Everything else was fine. I wasnt home to do a proper analysis of the problem, so my mom placed them in a 20gal tank with no lighting for 3 days. Put them back in the display and now the colony is back to full size again. Odd.

[MinibowMatt]

Great thread...
I have not exprienced a total colony loss yet either, except for a new arrival from the west coast. they were blues, came in with infection, i fragged them off about where mucho stated-- 3 rows away from the infection. The colony was still a loss. I was new to reefing then, so maybe i could have done more. I do blow my zoos off every two weeks or so with a turkey baster. My tank is small, and if i used a PH i would have sand all over.. I have had some major crud come out from tight zoo colonies, and loose ones alike. I think their has to be some correallation between crud between polyps and colony loss.

[Mantis737]

I lost a colony of reds this way. Very crappy indeed. I dipped after about 1/4 of the colony started to stem-up. It was odd, one closed in the middle, then the rest followed and got hard stems rather than a poylp. Don't know what caused it, and it's the only ones that I have ever had do it. Another guy that had the same zoos told me the same thing happened to him when the colony got to be the same size as mine. Very interesting, and I would love ot get some more info on it.

[MUCHO REEF]

I think it's important that as many reefers as possible respond and share your experience with this. We would all greatly appreciate it.

Thanks

[spidey07]

Well as a newb I can only offer my experience. I lost an entire colony. Yet 4 others are as happy as can be.

Things I've noticed.

How closed are they? If fully, meaning it looks like a little nub then it is cause for concern. If partially, meaning you can see a very small opening of the polyp that is much better.

And the biggest thing I've noticed in healthy vs unhealthy colonies is the "recoup" time. My very healthy zoos can have a crab on them or being handled or any physical irritant and they retract rapidly and consequently open up rapidly - meaning fully opening up within 60 seconds. Those that are not so healthy take much longer.

[Nuhtty]

Originally posted by spidey07


And the biggest thing I've noticed in healthy vs unhealthy colonies is the "recoup" time. My very healthy zoos can have a crab on them or being handled or any physical irritant and they retract rapidly and consequently open up rapidly - meaning fully opening up within 60 seconds. Those that are not so healthy take much longer.


This is a really good point.

I have noticed that a few of my colonies "frag" better than others as well...meaning when I put them back in the main tank after being on the chopping block, they open within an hour or two.

Some (albeit not many) colonies take almost the whole day.

I try to frag in the am so that the frag has the rest of the day with lights...not sure if thats a good strategy or not.

[tekknoschtev]

I guess that I've noticed mixed results in respect to that. My latest colony came in, and smelled like death. Upon inspection it had sediment packed tightly between each polyp and there was a great deal of flaking 'skin' and decaying polyps on it that I didnt previously notice in the store. The odd thing is that the zoanthids were opened in their tank, in the bag of water on the ride home, and the ones that closed when I picked the colony up for the FW dip opened up in the freshwater... I've never had that happen before. Its not that they didnt close - they actually opened up when in the freshwater. Within a week, all that remained were three frags (I fragged the entire colony in hopes of saving it).

I have noticed that as a generality, the healthy zoos opening faster though.

[spidey07]

heh, tell me about it.

I can took one of the rocks out with hundreds of zoos on it. ran it under tap water, popped off some bubble algae and what not. let it sit on the counter for a while and plopped it back into the tank.

they were fully opened within 5 minutes. And this is the one I've yanked many nudis off of.

[metalManiac]

well, been looking at my zoos, and for the past few days one colony was just getting really thin (the stalks) but the top was kinda trying to open, i didnt know why, but thought it must be one of those spontaneous deaths that you never really know how it happened.
So today im looking at them again and a see a friggn nudi head sticking out of the base of the zoo! little *****, no wonder i couldnt see anything wrong with the colony. the bastard was going at it from the inside out!

Well, i decided to throw away the whole colony of those zoos (they all loked skinny), better be safe then sorry!

Oh and btw, i took a scalpel to that little bastard of a nudi and turned him into mincemeat! :furious:

http://img355.imageshack.us/img355/5930/nudi8nk.jpg

http://img355.imageshack.us/img355/8977/nudi28jq.jpg

just a warning, sometimes theres more to it than spontaneous death! :eek2:

[Nuhtty]

Yeah...nudis can be tough to spot

[Kirklan]

I've had 2 different colonies melt away on me. 1 I had a flat worm problem in my nano and they got completley covered by them in a couple of days. Even after eradicating the flat worms, I could never get the colony to fully open up and they slowly wasted away.

Another colony I had for quite a few months up towards the top of my tank right under a 250w halide. The bulbs were needing replaced and I purchased XM 10k's. None of my SPS coral burned, but my zoos melted away soon after.

[BrokkenTWolf]

I've had one colony slowly die on me. Sometimes polyps would be extended and the next day for no apparent reason, they'd be completely closed off while the rest of my zoas appeared unaffected. Eventually, I had less than 10 polyps and they started looking white and slimy. For the sake and health of the others, I ended up throwing the frag away. Dips did nothing for this colony. It was intent on decline no matter what.

As for 'housecleaning' my zoas. I take a pipette and "blow off" residue and other nastiness that accumulates in the zoa colonies. Amazing the amount of stuff that collects in there! Any idea what that residue is? Is it a byproduct of the zoanthids?

[Nuhtty]

Originally posted by BrokkenTWolf


As for 'housecleaning' my zoas. I take a pipette and "blow off" residue and other nastiness that accumulates in the zoa colonies. Amazing the amount of stuff that collects in there! Any idea what that residue is? Is it a byproduct of the zoanthids?

I just think its particle matter from the tank that lands on the zoos and gets mixed with the corals natural "gooey" cleaning slime...or whatever its called!

[lvreefer]

I have something going on right now on one of my colonies. I plan on pulling it out to get a better look at it. By the way I use a baster on all of my corals and rock once a week. Its unbelievable how much settles on the rock in one week. I'll take a pic and keep you updated.

[lvreefer]

So here's a pic...
http://members.cox.net/lvreefer/ZooTrouble.jpg
They have been closed now for two days.

[MUCHO REEF]

Wow, I thought a lot of reefers would want to play a part in sharing their experiences with their zoos dying. Hey maybe I'm talking too much !!!

Mucho

[MinibowMatt]

LVreefer.. have you checked for nudis?

[GovtCheese]

Originally posted by MUCHO REEF
Wow, I thought a lot of reefers would want to play a part in sharing their experiences with their zoos dying. Hey maybe I'm talking too much !!!

Mucho

I just get totally bummed out when I think of the countless number of zoo colonies of various colors, melt away or get munched on by my hippo tang, which I have affectionately named "the eating machine" :D

[BrianPlankis]

Mucho,

I'm very interested in this thread, I hope more people continue to respond to it. I'm curious because I can't seem to keep pink zoas of any morph alive in my tank and I'm starting to think I shouldn't try any more.

The process was very similiar in both color morphs I tried:

1. Both came as frags with 10-20 polyps on the frag. Both appeared healthy and had been living months in the frag supplier's tank. Different suppliers. One colony was over 2 years old and fragged multiple times.

2. Both appeared healthy in my tank initially for about a week with all polyps opening. Both were treated to your RC zoa dip before being placed in the tank.

3. About 1-2 weeks after placement in the tank one or more polyps start to close. Within a couple of days very small white dots appear on the closed polyps. The white dots never get bigger, just more numerous. They are not nudibranchs or their eggs. The skin on the closed polyps appears to start shedding and then the polyps begin to shrink until only a mat is left.

4. The mat slowly disappears or parts will flake off in the water column until nothing is left.

5. RC zoa dips were done again on both frags. The first time it was just one dip, the second frag it was one dip per week. No known described predators fell off in any dips. All other zoas were fine during this time, no losses and I have 20+ types of zoas in my tank. In fact most zoas were showing very good growth.

6. Water parameters were in the following ranges during the losses. Average reading in ()

pH: 8.0-8.3 (8.0)
Salinity: 1.024-1.027 (1.026)
Ca: 350-450 (400)
Alk: 6.0-11.5 (I've been slowly raising this to 11. It was mostly in the 8.0-9.5 range)
Mg: 1200-1400 (1350)

All other readings were zero (Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrate, phosphate are what I test).

Brian

EDIT: Oh yeah, I keep them under 2 - 175W MH 10K and 2 - 110W super actinic VHO. The first frag came from midway up a tank with 400W MH, so I'm curious if the reduction in lighting ended up killing them.

[MarvinsReef]

I'm also curious about the white spots on zoas.. I'm starting to experience this on our green (yellow skirt) colony... I did a FW dip on them last week and no sign of nudi's or eggs.. just small white dots... the polyps still are not doing well.. I will post some pictures of them when I get back this weekend..

Any insight about this will be appreciated...

[Grimstalk]

after reading this thread I decided to dip one of my small colonies which hasn't seem right for the last few months. I decided to do the FW dip.

Anyways, first thing I noticed, underneath the zoo was a black snail. Black shells, new to me?? Also attached were a few other snails which came off. Also found a small bristle worm.

I think bugs/snails etc were lodging themselves inbetween the rock and the zoo colony which is encrusting the rock.

[MarvinsReef]

does it look like one of these.. if it is, good thing you caught it.. they make zoas their snack :mad:

from melevsreef.com
http://www.melevsreef.com/id/sundial.jpg

[Grimstalk]

MArv,

I get an invalid attachment when I try to view those..

[MarvinsReef]

just edited... hope it works now.. melevsreef has some great info and pictures you can read... I know it helped me when I got started with our zoa dominated tank...

[kass03]

I saw a black stomatella snail in my tank yesterday. I have the white/cream but never saw a black one before. They are suppose to be harmless. I call them helmet heads lol.

As for muchos question I too have had mysterious zoo deaths.
I had colonies I started from 6 polyps grow into over 30 and then all of a sudden melt.
They had that film on them you talked about in another thread.
I have never had nudi's. I do dip all new zoa's and never found one.
The weird thing about that blue/green film disease is that I had 2 colonies on the same rock growing together next to each other.
One colony melted the other is fine. I had them for like 6 months before the 1 melted and it was thriving and getting new polyps before that.
It seems like it's gone away now and no more are melting but it's odd when it happens because I have alot of zoa's and most werent affected.

kass

[Nagel]

I've had them close up for unexpected reasons. The latest episode what when I scraped the glass of some pretty long hair-like algea. not your typical GHA, a little thicker. It collected in the micron bag in my sump, and within 2 days most colonies were closed. No other parameters changed, I can only assume the relation. I did a 30% W/C, put in carbon, and broke down and added a skimmer thinking it was something released into the water.

Lost a few individual polyps in the colonies, but the colonies themselves took about a week - week and a half to open again..

xenia wasn't affected, neither was an acanth or platygyra.

Oddly enough, they started getting better from the top of the tank down. the bottom zoanthids were the last to start opening again, taking 5 or more days to reopen then the top zoanthids.

Plenty of flow too, and good top to bottom exchange.

[MUCHO REEF]

You won't believe this, but I took a visit back to the LFS to see if that pink colony crashed as I knew it would when the 3 spots of BI began to spread. Well, something happened, the store owners decided not to frag it up to save it. Even more strange than that, was the BI stopped in it's tracks without any treatment at all. The 3 spots of BI were no where to be found and all of the zoos in those 3 spots were perfectly fine and healthy. I have never ever heard or seen that happen, never. I was blown away and there is no explanation for it. In the past I have allowed a smaller infected colony to just stay where it was and see if it would fight the BI off itself. Knowing that was nearly impossible as I had witnessed its contiunual growth in the past. So why on earth did this colony fight off the infection, for the lack of a better word, and now appears perfectly normal.

Regarding the sudden onset of BI, I can recall every time I have had it as well as when and what happened when other zoo keepers I know have had it.

1. This has happened to me several times so I know there is something to this. I have received a total of 11 frags or colonies over the years that were covered in this BI or fungus right out the bags. The sellers/shippers I have dealt with are friends whom I trust dearly as I know they would not send me sick zoos. Only 3 of the 11 had major temp shifts of 4 degrees or less, so temp variation wasn't it. It's nothing more than a guess, but I truly believe that these outbreaks are stress induced. Though hardy, zoos can and will suffer trauma in transit. Could the handling, bagging, packing, shipping, cargo hole pressurization, unloading, sorting, packing and loading onto the trucks again and the day long journey to your home be the culprit? I don't know.

2. When I've had outbreaks in my tanks, it was never in my prop tank where the current was much higher than my main reef. Those colonies/frags that were affected in my main reef, were the ones sitting in areas where the current was extremly low. Could it be a lack of current for prolonged periods of time? I don't know.

3. Others have noticed the break out of BI or fungus after agitating the sand bed. Could that be it? I don't know. I just hope someone else has something to share that might be somewhat similar.

They're just guesses.

Mucho

[kass03]

I dunno mucho. I have pretty strong current in my tank.
I have seen a few of mine recover usually when I move them to the bottom of the tank with less flow and light.
The odd one to me is where I had the 2 colonys on the same rock and 1 whole colony died where the other is fine. They were touching each other also.
Sometimes my zoo's do get bumped and fall to the bottom so this stress related thing might have something to it. A few small frags Ive had that were knocked down a few times got it.

kass

[MUCHO REEF]

Like I said, "They're just guesses.". I want to know as much as the next guy. Just throwing things out there hoping one of you guys can figure it out. I would love to know.

MR

[eastcoastzigzag]

so you guys FW dip zoo's? if you do how long?

[Toothers]

Below is a cut-and-pasted post about a zoo dip that I'd like to try on my sick zoos. Does any one know a source for the Lugols Iodine mentioned in the post?

>>>>Copy-and-pasted from RF, where it was copy-and-pasted from RC

Zoo Dip
I take no credit for this, it's really no big deal to do. All of the items used are most likely underneath your cabinet already. I have performed this for years on hundreds, yes, hundreds of zoos and it has worked every single time. No I'm not being cocky or anything like that, this really and truly works as many RC members have PM'd me directly saying so. No I'm not looking for a that-a-boy or anything, I just see that a lot of reefers have ask about it so I thought I would post it in its own thread.

Each and every zoo that goes into my tank, healthy or not, gets a dip. This dip has worked for most every ailments my zoos have had. Some will require a bit of surgery and in some rare cases where I have received a colony with a very nasty fungus, I have deviated slighlty and placed several drops of Lugols Iodine directly onto the infected colony after a bit of surgery. I see that a lot of people are dealing with the whitish, opaque to yellowish fungus or some sort on your colonies. For some reason this happens alot during shipment and I'm sure a lot of you will concur. The key to saving a colony with this issue is to act immediately. You must remove all of the fungus with tweezers outside of your tank. Now using a very sharp razor blade, cut down and around the entire area that was affected. If you have a large rock and you want to be sure that you have irradicated the problem, remove 2 or 3 rows of good zoos around the area that was infected. Rinse the colony well with tank water using a turkey baster or the like, still outside of your reef, now perform the dip with the dipping brew below. I sent it to someone last week so i just copied and pasted it below.

Here's the dipping brew that I have used and most people on RC are using it now as well. If it is performed as soon as you see the signs in the proper manner, success is always attained.

1. Using a 5 gallon white bucket, add 3 gallons of RO water.
2. Now add 1 or 2 drops of Lugol's Iodine per gallon of RO water. ( I read that using 3-4 drops works better)
3. Set your PH to 8.2
4. Set your water temp. at 78 degrees
5. If you have some Flatworm exit made my Saliferts, add
2 drops per gallon to the RO water to kill any Flatworms

Place the colony in the white bucket right side up. Leaving it there for about 5 minutes. Then grab the rock and invert it and place it in the water 3 inches below the water surface. Now twist the rock as fast as you can in a clockwise and counterclockwise motion for at least a minute. While the rock was sitting still in the RO water, it was killing off all bristle worms, Nudibranchs, flatworms and parasites. It will not kill off any Nudibranch eggs so you will have to inspect the rock for what looks like a tiny white 1/8 of and inch curly white piece of thread. They won't detach from the rock as the sack is very sticky. Inside this egg sack is up to 40 or so eggs just waiting to hatch. If you see one, just remove it with tweezers before placing the rock back into your reef. By the way, once you have finished twisting the rock in the water for a full minute, pull it out the water and dunk it back into the water a few times, splashing and swooshing is good, it dislodges anything that didn't fall off in the twisting motion. You are going to kill off a few copepds as well, but this is ok, as you have tons more already in your reef tank and your sump/fug. The dip will not kill your zoos, trust me, if you do exactly as stated above, you will be fine. If your colony is in declined and has been for some time, it may be too late to save them, but if you always do a dip on the first or second day of the problem, I have had a 99 % success rate at saving my own. I don't care what anyone else says, I know what has and will always work for the above issues. Zoos are all I know and I truly like to help out if and when I can.
Oh, I forgot, once you place the colony back into your reef, make sure they receive some current as they will be a little stressed and might slim a little, but that's ok, they will be fine. Your zoos will open in minutes.Always, ....always run your actinics only for the rest of that day. Actinics will encourage them to open. Try not to introduce any food into the system as well until the following day. On the following day, go back to your normal photoperiod. As I said, the zoos will be a little stressed and your 10 or 12k lighting will only try to encourage them to fully expand when they really don't want to right now because of what they have just experienced. I believe the bright lighting after a dip has and will discourage them from opening as soon. Trust me, you will not kill them my friend.


It would be great if any of you who have tried this would post your results below. I know of several who have emailed or Pm'd me, but I prefer that you mention your experience with the above dip.

Safe reefing everyone

Mucho

PS, I chose Lugols for its medicinal/antiseptic properties. Please remember to wear reef safe gloves. The white bucket will allow you to see everything that you have just killed off. Two drops of Lugols will not hurt or harm the zoos. I use two drops most of the time myself. Best of luck to all of you.

Hobby Experience: 12 years, and one lucky August 2003 TOTM winner,
2. http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2003-08/totm/index.htm
Current Tanks: 70 gallon zoo and ricordea reef


Last edited by MUCHO REEF on 10/13/2004 at 11:16 AM<<<<

[AndyReef]

Recently, within the last week, I have had a zo colony close up. I really don't know why. When should I start to be concerned about it not being open? 7 Days, 10 days, less, more?

[AndyReef]

In case anyone is interested, after reading this thread, I decided to change the water flow pattern in the tank a bit, and the polyps have started opening again. They aren't all open yet, but I am seeing some that I haven't seen for a few days.

[sjfishguy]

I had these large pods feeding on some of my zoos one time (luckily it was my first colony). I took the rock out and did a freshwater dip as a hundred of these little critters came scrambling out. The were about this long ___ . Zoos came back in no time. Never had a problem since (knock on wood, I will probably wake up tomorrow now to no zoos).

[kass03]

Toothers the zoa dip you posted was written by Mucho Reef who started this thread.
It does work great for some zoa ailments like nudi's and fungus but this thread was started about a different zoa ailment where they start to melt for no reason. The dip doesnt seem to help it whatever it is but if my zoa's start to close I do still try the dip first.
Since I read Mucho's post about the dip I dip all my new zoa's and have never had nudi's thankfully.
I had a spurt where some of my zoa's started melting but it's stopped now. Some died and some recovered but I did the same thing with all of them so don't know why. Basically I put them on the bottom for a few days until they either died or opened again.
None of mine are melting anymore.

kass

[cknowlto]

My biggest problem with my zoos it that they are getting small. They open just fine, but the polyp sizes have been shrinking down to 1/8th in on several colonies. They are still reproducing at a moderate/slow level (by morph), but I am obviously doing something wrong as certain morphs (Dark Green all over, yellow all over) are definately not spreading/opening as I expected them to. Pinks (long skirt), and reds are doing fine, but no where near what they are doing in the bigger tanks.

The tank is a 10G Nano with zooanthids and a token colony of red sea and elongata xenia. No other corals. No fish, no other inverts (the snails died after about 8 months)

Parameters are as follows:

PH 7.9 - 8.1
Sal: 1.024 - 1.025
Alk: 3.2
Calc: 350+

The rest of the pertinent parameters are pretty much 0

Lights are a 32W PC 10K+620nm actinic + a 18W NO 50/50

The same colonies are getting big and frisky in the 150 and I have similar (but not the same) water parameters in that tank and less water flow. (I am running a 10G tank with a MJ 1200 @ 320GPH)

Suggestions?

[BrianPlankis]

Originally posted by cknowlto
Parameters are as follows:

PH 7.9 - 8.1
Sal: 1.024 - 1.025
Alk: 3.2
Calc: 350+

Suggestions?

I'm definitely not a zoa expert, so this is just my stab at half-informed advice :) In my experience (I have about 20 frags of zoas), they all seem to do better in bright light. I'm not familiar with running a 10 gallon, so I'm not sure if your lights are considered strong or not.

The other thing I've noticed is that my zoas seem to grow much faster and get bigger with phyto and a high Alk. What unit is your Alk in? I keep mine around 10 dKH and since doing that and feeding phyto 3x a week my zoas have been taking off.

I don't know if the zoas actually use the phyto, but it sure seems to increase the pod population and maybe they grab something in the water.

Brian

PS. On another note, my eagle eye zoas are slowly melting away. They were irritated for a long time by a sand burrowing crab spitting on them, I finally realized this was happening, but it was too late. I've done a zoa dip, but they continue to decline with 1/3 to 1/2 of them dead. Only sign they are sick is not opening up and some black slime on the body of the zoas.

[Tasmanian]

I recently started experiencing the "zoo melt" as well. I've tried Muchos dip (Thanks for all of your info and great threads always Mucho) in case it was nudis...no nudis. They just .....melt.

I also have seen that they seem to get covered in cyano even though there isn't an outbreak throughout the tank of cyano. When I tried to blow it off witha turkey baster- no luck. So I tried with a maxijet 1200--it still didn't come off and the colony contiues to melt. I tried to remove the colony for a dip, but it has grown across 3-4 rocks and the connecting polyps are (apparently not melting!) holding on for dear life. I don't want to rip it off and further stress the only good polyps left. What do you think about treating the tank for cyano? Maybe if I kill this stuff the polyps can come back easier. Has anyone tried this already?

[kass03]

Tasmanian sounds like the mysterious melting disease were talking about.
I don't think it's cyno on them because you can't seem to get it off. It's some kind of dark film on them that looks like algae.
It's the same problem my melting zoa's had but only a few colonies got it here and there.
I saved a few of them by putting them in the shade on the bottom of the tank. Nothing else seemed to work.
I also scraped off the real bad looking polyps from the colony.

kass

[BrianPlankis]

Originally posted by CirolanidHunter
PS. On another note, my eagle eye zoas are slowly melting away. They were irritated for a long time by a sand burrowing crab spitting on them, I finally realized this was happening, but it was too late. I've done a zoa dip, but they continue to decline with 1/3 to 1/2 of them dead. Only sign they are sick is not opening up and some black slime on the body of the zoas.

I moved my eagle eye zoas to a place away from the sand bed and in total about 1/3 of the small colony was lost. They are now showing new growth and opening up again :D

I also replaced the filters on my RO/DI unit which was exhausted and not pouring 70-100TDS water into the tank seems to have perked things up as well.

Brian

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y45/garagebrian/2005JournalPics/11162005Brianeagles.jpg

[AJ69]

Well I just joined the"club" lost 2 colonies;a pink bubble gum and a green mean.Both were close to each other,did the dip no positive results.:mad2: Now I have the EE and a nice burgundy colony melting also.:mad2: :( I'm so f%^ frustrated.BTW the colonies were like 4x4(size)

[rarejul]

I have had problems with a yellow colony in the past. I havent been able to find anything wrong with it. it gets better grows then dies off again. today it is gone.:( it was high up in my nano and had great water flow. it got stressed due to a knock over. within 2 days I was missing most of the colony. They seem to dissapear overnight. I think flow really made the difference.

my 2cts
Shauna

[zephyros]

hiya,

i'm very new in this hobby (tank coming to 5 mnths old) and most
of my corals are zoos. I had a red frag slightly smaller than
palm size that melts away in abt 2 mnths time. This frag
is fr Fiji (I have Indonesia/Philipines zoos as well). Now,
another green/yellow Fiji zoo frag seems to be suffering from
this melting disease as well. Good sign is that the frag
is growing new polyps as the same time. I'm going to try
FW dip with Lugol's sol.

BTW, what is BI as mentioned in the OP?

cheers

[eastcoastzigzag]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6227715#post6227715 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by zephyros
hiya,

i'm very new in this hobby (tank coming to 5 mnths old) and most
of my corals are zoos. I had a red frag slightly smaller than
palm size that melts away in abt 2 mnths time. This frag
is fr Fiji (I have Indonesia/Philipines zoos as well). Now,
another green/yellow Fiji zoo frag seems to be suffering from
this melting disease as well. Good sign is that the frag
is growing new polyps as the same time. I'm going to try
FW dip with Lugol's sol.

BTW, what is BI as mentioned in the OP?

cheers

------post up the info on ur tank, water pram's, lighting, tank mates, a pic if possible ( we like tank shots reguardless:rollface: )

[bevis28]

has anyone had ALL their zoos close up at once. i am going thru that right now. all have been down now for about 3 days. i have not a clue why they are doing this. all other corals in the tank are fine. i just cant understand why this is happening. water parameters are in spec and i am in the process of raising the alk from 9.6 to 12.0 . i wonder if the drop in the alk in the past 60 days has anything to do with it ? my calc is 500+ so i am trying to get my alk back in line with my calc. it tested 11.6 60 days ago and 9.6 DKH 2 days ago. that is why im trying to raise it now. anyone else have ALL of their zoo's shut down at once ? im talking about 12 to 15 colonies.

[tekknoschtev]

How quickly are your parameters changing? If they are changing to quickly that may exp;ain it. But then again, if all of the other corals are fine... I dont know about that.

[bevis28]

they were closed up before i realized that my alk had dropped 2 dkh over the pase 60 days. i dont think that the parameters are the culprit. i think that i have nudi's but i have never seen one. i looked at a zomm in of a macro shot that i took and i see some bugs on 1 of the colonies. i can see 2 antenna and they are about 1/4" long. i think that they are nudi's. trying to figure out how to raise the PH of RO/DI water right now so i can do a dip of all mt colonies.

[BrianPlankis]

Before I begin, I'm not looking to turn this into a salt discussion, but I wanted to share my experience.

I started off my tank on Kent salt and everything was looking great, but I Kent salt prices were really going up in my area...$65 for a 200gal bucket. So I decided to switch to Crystal Seas BioAssay formula. Everything went fine the first month as I switched over, but eventually I noticed a few of my zoa colonies stopped opening up. I don't know if it was the salt or not, but only 4 of my 23 kinds of zoas went into decline. All at the same time.

After two months of the new salt the 4 zoas were looking terrible. They had obviously shrunk and my favorite, what I call green meanies :D, had closed completely for 1 month.

I finally abandoned the new salt and I've been doing many WCs to get back to Kent. After 5 weeks, I just noticed my green meanies had opened up 6 polyps. I'll try to get a picture tonight. But here is what they looked like BEFORE the salt switch.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y45/garagebrian/RCPerm/10092005greenmeans.jpg

Hopefully I'll have an "after" shot in the next couple of days.

Brian

[n00b mariner]

bought my first frag of zoo`s and they are all tightly shut. I acclimatized them over about 2 hrs. How long shud i give em to sttle down before i start worrying?

[wet reefer]

Anyone using vitamins, trace elements or any other additives that have shown benefit? I think that would be a good discussion here or maybe another thread?

[knowse]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6306538#post6306538 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by n00b mariner
bought my first frag of zoo`s and they are all tightly shut. I acclimatized them over about 2 hrs. How long shud i give em to sttle down before i start worrying?

Your new zoas could take up to several weeks to settle in.

[MUCHO REEF]

If your zoos take several weeks to fully open, you have an issue in your tank. They should never take that long to open unless you have a parameter that if off, Hypo or Hyper salinity, temp issue, a predator, fish that's nipping at them, light shock, very poor circulation, inadequate lighting. I always recommend actinics only on the first day they are introduced to a new system. It will speed up the time it takes for them to fully expand. Numerous local reefer have told me they're zoos have never opened so fast as they do with actinic acclimation on the first day.

Wet Reefer, I use Reef Plus on a weekly bases, and yes, it does make a difference.

Mucho

[budjr8000]

i have a colony of zoos with maybe 45polyps on it. they had been flourishing but now i noticed about 7 on the side that are kind of disinegrating. i decided to pul them off. i am unsure whatelse to do. what does it mean to dip it and how do you do that? i want to save them since they are very pretty.

[budjr8000]

where can i find lugol's iodine and is there any other dipping method? would just dipping them in FW work or do i need the chemicals?

[jerrymlr1]

I have had some zoas waste away before but I had other colonies of the same zoa so I was never TOO concerned. The other same colonies are still doing good. However I have some red PE's that are taking a turn for the worse. I just started reading this thread and got interested in it. Here's a pic. It sucks because these are kinda my favorites. I have seen plenty of RPE's but none of the same brilliant red. Bummed.:(
http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/500/46512Losing_reds.jpg

[boyohboy2]

man I am experiencing this zoos wasting away big time. More than 1/2 of my zoos are doing it right now and I have no idea what's going on. At least 2-3 colonies of them are most likely beyond recoverable state. I've just inspected the zoos rocks that I can take out, closely to see if there's any nudi or what not. Couldn't see anything unusual yet.

Coincidentally I've recently bought a clove polyps colony and it was opening very nicely for maybe 2-3 weeks. Then all of a sudden it clossed up for few days and then melted away very quickly. Could the clove polyps dying be affecting the zoos? but then I think the zoos started closing up before I got the clove... so maybe the clove polyp dying was also a victim of whatever that's affecting the zoos?

It's really frastrating looking at the zoos wasting away..... :( :(

[Mattw2190]

Has anyone ever had some sort of brownish algae kill their zoanthids? Right now I have a piece with 15 polyps and 2 of them are covered with brown algae. The 2 that are covered can't open because its like a blanket over them. Has anyone else had problems like this?

[bigfoot610]

I am ahving the same problem i have tried dips scrubbing with a toothbrush and removing it it just comes back i have it on a couple paly's too what is this crap and how do i get rid of it i put straight iodide on them after tonights brushing let them sit for 15 seconds the did a 5 min FW dip and it still comes back again! imabout to put them in qt with neosporin to see if that works im just dumbfounded if you have beaten this crap please pm me! Thanks .............................Luke

[boyohboy2]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6503840#post6503840 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by boyohboy2
man I am experiencing this zoos wasting away big time. More than 1/2 of my zoos are doing it right now and I have no idea what's going on. At least 2-3 colonies of them are most likely beyond recoverable state. I've just inspected the zoos rocks that I can take out, closely to see if there's any nudi or what not. Couldn't see anything unusual yet.

Coincidentally I've recently bought a clove polyps colony and it was opening very nicely for maybe 2-3 weeks. Then all of a sudden it clossed up for few days and then melted away very quickly. Could the clove polyps dying be affecting the zoos? but then I think the zoos started closing up before I got the clove... so maybe the clove polyp dying was also a victim of whatever that's affecting the zoos?

It's really frastrating looking at the zoos wasting away..... :( :(

some update... I wouldn't say I've solved the problem, whatever it is.... but my zoos look to be getting better. Still not fully open as they were before, but at least half open, rather than completely close.

Here're what I've done:

1) using a bag of activated carbon in the tank
2) did 2 waterchanges (~5G and 10G, out of my 50G+30Gsump)
3) replace the sedimentary filter of my RO/DI unit (TDS reading was 1ppm before and now 0ppm)

So did I actually "fix" the problem or did it just go away? I duno... but hope I'm heading to the right direction with the zoos :confused:

[heuerfan]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6501103#post6501103 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jerrymlr1
I have had some zoas waste away before but I had other colonies of the same zoa so I was never TOO concerned. The other same colonies are still doing good. However I have some red PE's that are taking a turn for the worse. I just started reading this thread and got interested in it. Here's a pic. It sucks because these are kinda my favorites. I have seen plenty of RPE's but none of the same brilliant red. Bummed.:(
http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/500/46512Losing_reds.jpg

I feel your pain, had the same bright red pe's also. I had a 100 polyp colony that slowly wasted away until i fragged it and gave to friends with SPS tanks (hi flow/low nutrient) and they seem to be thriving. They gave me back a small frag, did well for short period and they waste away also. I have a LPS/Zoo tank with hight nutrients since i feed the corals and fish alot. These Red pe seem to like cleaner water, but my other zoo colonies are doing very well and growing :(

Oh how i miss them......... :(
http://www.manhattanreefs.com/gallery/files/1/3/3/funkyredpe.jpg

[jay357]

I had a colony of zooz that developed this black slime that would grow overnight. It would drip from polyp to polyp, you could literly see it with long stringy looking webtype stramds pf black. I would dip the coral and scrape off the infected/dying polyps only to see more of the black stuff the next morning. I finally had to cut off about an inch of healthy polyp with the infected portions leaving only a few left on the rock. It has recovered completly from only a few to covered completly now.

Has anyone seen this black slime death stuff?

Jay

[jerrymlr1]

I feel your pain, had the same bright red pe's also. I had a 100 polyp colony that slowly wasted away until i fragged it and gave to friends with SPS tanks (hi flow/low nutrient) and they seem to be thriving. They gave me back a small frag, did well for short period and they waste away also. I have a LPS/Zoo tank with hight nutrients since i feed the corals and fish alot. These Red pe seem to like cleaner water, but my other zoo colonies are doing very well and growing :(

Oh how i miss them......... :(

That had to hurt. I think these are some of the best out there.

[Kookynewky]

I had a colony of orange zoo's that were doing phenominally even speading to other rocks. One day the outer most zoos in the colony were closing up then dropping off the rest of the colony. This happened until the very last zoo followed suit. They were my second coral ever so I ever really know why this happened. I tested with my kit at the time which did not include things like phosphate and calcium. I imagine I may have had a parameter that was off but back then I had no idea of the benefits that an actual reefers test kit held.

[21Reefman]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6614572#post6614572 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jay357
I had a colony of zooz that developed this black slime that would grow overnight. It would drip from polyp to polyp, you could literly see it with long stringy looking webtype stramds pf black. I would dip the coral and scrape off the infected/dying polyps only to see more of the black stuff the next morning. I finally had to cut off about an inch of healthy polyp with the infected portions leaving only a few left on the rock. It has recovered completly from only a few to covered completly now.

Has anyone seen this black slime death stuff?

Jay

Jay,
yeah, once on some pink/ sandy's. I thought it was a morph color of red cyno algea and used Chemi-Clean red algea treatment. It was too late for the colony yet I have not seen the black stuff since. It was accumulating on the substrate as well at that time.
I attributed this issue to high nutrients and lack of water changes, in my case. Good Luck:)

[surfnvb7]

i'll have to be honest...i havent read through this entire thread since zoanthid mortality can be so trivial depending on the individuality of everyone's tank, and the water chemistry inside.

however. i just observed my first true zoanthid mortality in 2 different types of zoas i've had for years, happen for no apparent reason. when i say my first true mortality, i mean seperate from getting a frag...and them not pulling through after a month. i've had that happen a couple of times.

i just lost all of my "fire & ice" zoas, or known to some as the ones with the orange skirt and light blue center. i had several different small colonies (50polyps or so) in different locations in my tank, and they all dissolved away. i didnt do anything to stop it, like a dip or anything.

just before that, i witnessed these guys on the right almost completely dissolve away, along with a frag i made months ago on the opposite side of the tank.
http://filebox.vt.edu/users/ayoung/Aquariums/20g%20reef%20tank/green%20and%20orange%20zoos%20before%20and%20after%202.jpg

i lost the entire frag (5 polyps), and went from about 20polyps, to 7 left on the small frag in the picture.

no idea why this happened, made no changes to my tank as far as chemicals or lighting. just dunno...

:confused:

[BrokkenTWolf]

My colony of blues suddenly closed up and then started melting away. I didn't change anything at all about the parameters and nothing - including doing twice the amount of water changes - seemed to help out. I'm mystified by the sudden behavior. The only thing I did was add another colony of zoas and add a colony of acan lords. I'm pretty bummed about it since they seemed to be doing so well and breeding like crazy. Now my reds seem to be on the decline. The only thing that I have to contribute from my experience is that I have reds in different parts of the tank. They all seem to be affected so it's not a localized phenomena. As to what is causing the actual decline it's still a mystery to me.

[BrianPlankis]

I wonder if chemical warfare by corals is causing this in tanks. I'm going to run carbon more often in mine and I'm slowly reducing the number of different corals in my tank.

B.

[MarvinsReef]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6709584#post6709584 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by CirolanidHunter
I wonder if chemical warfare by corals is causing this in tanks. I'm going to run carbon more often in mine and I'm slowly reducing the number of different corals in my tank.

B.

that's an interesting thought.. what other corals do you think would have chemical warfare with zoas?? I have blasto's wellsi's and merlettis, Yuma/FL rics, Acan lords and echinatas, and a hammer on my 75g zoa dominated..

do you think any of these are contributing with chemical warfare? so far, my tank seem to be doing okay..

Thanks
Marvin

[BrianPlankis]

Marvin,

From what I've read most corals can do some kind of chemical warfare or another. Sinularia and leathers seem to be the most prolific chemical producers. However, there is very little research reports that actually test for chemicals in the water and their effects on other corals. It is one thing to find a nasty chemical inside a coral, it is another to determine if it is causing damage to a coral on the other side of the tank.

Personally, I'm going on the side of caution and reducing the number of different species of corals in my tank. I've lost 4 small colonies of zoas to melting, all other corals have been fine. At one point I had 28 different kinds of zoas in the 75. By April I will be down to around 7 and a couple of "colt" corals will be making their exit as well.

Brian

[surfnvb7]

I wonder if chemical warfare by corals is causing this in tanks. I'm going to run carbon more often in mine and I'm slowly reducing the number of different corals in my tank.

thats a darn good question. that really makes you think hard. and want to keep up on the water changes too!! :lol:

i have a feeling it might be the leather type corals, and obviously mushrooms too.

i just added a green leather a month ago.....but haven't noticed it sliming or anything yet. cant imagine any LPS or SPS hurting zoas....usually its the other way around.

[jerrymlr1]

I thought I had lost my reds. 4 out of 5 looked like they were toast. One is toast. The 5th was going downhill fast. A week or so ago I took all my zoa frags that were not looking well and dipped them in the furazone that was mentioned on another thread. One of the five started to come back pretty good a few days ago. As I was reading this thread this afternoon I checked the remaining 3. I'll be dogged but the 3 are actually opening up. You can bet I'll be happy if they make a full recovery.

[BrianPlankis]

what is furazone, how do you use it and where would you get it? Could you post a link to that other thread?

B.

[jerrymlr1]

Right....................................................................here. (http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=762148&highlight=furazone)

[wet reefer]

I'd be interested in hearing about how long people have been able to keep a colony of zoas going. I don't consider 1 ,2 or even 3 years a success. How many times have we read on these posts about zoas disappearing. I'm not suggesting that nobody can keep them for forever. I'm sure there are plenty of sucesses out there. But I don't think anybody has a clue as to what is going on in our tanks in regards to this. Those that are sucessfull (5 yrs or more) with a particular colony of zoas have a commen thread. We all need to figure out what it is.

[vyger]

The zoo's in my tank I have had for over a year and now all of a sudden they are closing more than they are open. I have had them in various tanks and they have done well until about a month ago. In fact they were closed up solid for almost 3 weeks and then I put them in my 10 gal reef and they opened right up and looked good for about a week now they are closed again. And another colony on a 5x6in rock has also closed and has not open for three days....This is very frustrating, everything else in the tank is fine, so the obvious assumption would be that Zoo's are affected by something that doesn't affect the other corals....whatever that might be????

[Steve973]

I had a colony for over a year and a half. I had 20-30 polyps and then one day, half of them were gone. and not mangled, but there was no trace left of the ones that disappeared. It appeared that I had some kind of predator in my tank. Close inspection yielded no clues - no eggs, nudibranchs, or snails around the colony. So now I have 1 polyp of that oringinal beautiful orange colony. I also purchased a colony of cool green skirted zoos. this predator found them and made quick work of them, again leaving no trace of the zoos behind. This weekend I purchased another small frag of about five orange skirted zoos (slightly different than the original type). These were eaten in one night.

I have no idea what could be eating these zoos. I suspected the urchin when I had it, and my emerald crab when i had it. When I donated these to friends and the pet store, it didn't solve my problem. Maybe I have a rogue worm, or something that's very cleverly hidden until very late at night. I'm not sure how i can find out what it is. My tank is primarily SPS, but I love zoanthids and I would like to have a few select colonies!

[schristi69]

Use a bottle trap and put some zoas in as bait.

[Reef Junkie]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6847679#post6847679 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Steve973
When I donated these to friends and the pet store, it didn't solve my problem.

What happened to the frag you donated? Same thing, different?

schristi69 made a great suggestion. That would be interesting to see what you found.

Also, what kind of animals (fish in particular) do you have?

If there is a rogue animal eating most of the colony, it's possible whatever they leave behind is eaten by worms; which is normal.

I had a similar problem with zoas once. It was because my Salinity was 1.041. Dumb mistake, fixed it and my colonies grew back.

[Reef Junkie]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6813546#post6813546 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by wet reefer
I'd be interested in hearing about how long people have been able to keep a colony of zoas going. I don't consider 1 ,2 or even 3 years a success. How many times have we read on these posts about zoas disappearing. I'm not suggesting that nobody can keep them for forever. I'm sure there are plenty of sucesses out there. But I don't think anybody has a clue as to what is going on in our tanks in regards to this. Those that are sucessfull (5 yrs or more) with a particular colony of zoas have a commen thread. We all need to figure out what it is.

I have a friend that has a colony of zoas that is about 7 years old. It's very strange to see how they've developed.

It's almost as if they creeped across the tank. Yet, it's not like they grew exponentially and overtook the tank. As they grew out, the polyps at the back of the colony died out. Almost like the mat would only contain a set amount of polyps and any extras died. So the mat just creeped around the tank killing what they could and growing around the rest. I have some of the colony in my tank now.

It's kind of cool.

[jerrymlr1]

Just an update. These were as good as gone. While they were on their way back they were looking like the average dull rpe's that you see everywhere. They are looking more and more like the bright red that they used to be. Hopes are high that they will make a full comeback. I'm glad I tried that dip because I think it worked and these have always been my favorite zoas. Maybe they will finally begin to multiply. FWIW.

Jerry

[greenstarman]

I have one of these in my tank. He stays on a frag that i got from LFS. Is he bad... if so i hope he is still there.

[vyger]

My zoo's have been closed now for a couple of months. I don't see any sign of deteriorating but I am going to do a fresh water dip on all of them. I read the post on this and was wondering what the best way to raise the PH of the RO water was....

Thanks

[jerrymlr1]

If I remember correctly I used a small amount of vinegar. Very small.
Jerry

[shadowman70]

I have a question.....I have a pretty large colony of green zoos....last night I was looking at the tank and I noticed in the middle of the colony there was this string of brown looking mucousy stuff that resembles caramel trailing out of the middle of one of my zoos that had closed up......anybody ever seen this or have any idea what is up with that...????

Richard

[vyger]

Update on Zoo's

I did a fresh water dip about 2 weeks ago and the Zoo's looked about the same , alittle tiny bit opened at the tops. Well i did a 25% NSW change twice in one week .. My Zoo's have all opened up even the one's that weren't dipped. After being closed up tight for nearly 2 months they look fine. I don't know quite what this means but I thought I'd share it and see if anyone has any ideas about what has transpired.

[GABONE]

Is A fresh water dip the best treatment for parisites, or should I use an additive like Kent's Coral Dip?

[SSweet1]

I was also wondering about the Kents coral dip. I didnt try it because it says not for colony type corals and zoos are usually in colony form. Has anyone tried it? It really is an iodine based dip but you mix it in your own salt water instead of the fresh water dip.
Carrie

[landragon]

vinegar is an acid and will certainly not raise your pH.

[jsn150]

I ordered about 10 different frags from some guy in California about 1 year ago and I would say 4-5 months after going into the tank I was amazed at just how good some of them were doing, I had a few colonies that started at maybe 3-4 polyps and had grown to 30-40, even 50+ polyps. about 2 months ago one colony of red zoos just out of the blue started "melting" away on me. i pulled the whole colony and threw it out hoping this would not be the case w/any of my other precious colonies. Unfortunately a month later I noticed a white almost fuzzy looking fungus growing on the stalks of an awesome orange/green colony I have. They as well as 3 other colonies seem to be succumbing to this disease. Not sure what to do, I never really took as much care as it seems some of you do in blowing them off etc. but my water params seem good and everything else is healthy. I will cry like a schoolgirl if I lose another colony as I have a enjoyed so much watching them grow into such good looking corals. They all grow together and not sure how I would be able to FW dip them. should I tear off what I can, dip them and start over???

[Ryanqk]

Hey guys i got my first zoa colony, a 30 polyp colony of tiny round Brown skirts, green middles, and dark purple centers. Reading this makes me scared i have them in a 10gl tank with high current and decent lighting. Within an hour of getting them they were coming out, seem to be doing good. Is there anything i can do to help prevent melting or other diseases, i never knew about dipping zoo's. kinda new to them.
Ryan

[vyger]

I have had an ongoing battle with my Zoo's closing and staying closed for long periods.I have come to my own conclusion ,from what I have done, that water quality is a very important factor in their case. Like I stated in a previous post , doing two 25% water changes with NSW was the only thing that made a difference .. I think I was lacking something in my water that the NSW made up for and hence all my Zoo's were open and looked great in about an hour. And this was after being closed for nearly 2 months like I said. This leads me to believe in my particular case it was my water. Even tho everything else in the tank was doing fine except my Zoo's.

[mf2055]

Been reading this post now pretty much the whole way threw. I would in interested to know if the majority of the "problem" colonies appeared to be contagious or not? Did the people who lost multiple colonies lose the one downstream from the original dieout, or was it on the other side of the tank? Anyone notice an effect if they are running UV? Anyone use any formilin or other formeldahyde based med in their dip?

[Kalmed]

I have spent the last 1.5 hours going through this very interseting thread that Mucho has started. It hss been very informative as to what to look for and possibly treat, an asset to those of us that are just starting out dabbling with zoo's.

I am new to RC as of today, but have had salt for the last 10+ years. I am starting a new tank after a catostrophic loss over a year ago do to equipment failure, and have chosen the husbandry of zoo's.

For my new project I have a 46gal bow with about 65lbs of tonga branch, 2" bed of Flordia's finest sand with approx 1" of Carib agro. To this for filtration I added a 18" CPR refugium with a maxi-jet 1200 for flow, and 18watts of 10k lighting 24/7. Lighting for the tank equates to a dual 96watt PC with 10K and 03 actinic on for approx 11 hours a day. A pair of Maxi-jet 1200's provide flow thoughtout the tank easily with the openess of the Tonga rock. This set up has been empty for approx 1 year with only the addition of 2 Saddle back clowns, macros to the refugium, small serpent stars, and pods approx 6 months ago. All rock was uncurred straight from the box approx 48 hours out of the ocean.

I provide regular feedings every 2 days for fish and critters of mystsis and cyclopeeze.

With addition of 2 - zoo colonies, 1 pulsing xenia, 2 ric's, and a sarcophyton frag 2.5 months ago. I started adding Reef buffer and Reef builder as prescribed 2 times a week along with Lugols.

All is well ohmmmmmmmmmmmmm

My point is this.

I have taken a painful amount of time and worked very slowly to develope a window to my ocean. Making small changes over long periods of time to allow the tank to reach its own Homeostasis, not to my manipulation. These animals have been around for millions of years and have flourish over oceans until mans hand changed its Homeostasis. If my tank perameters are dead on then I dont mess with the inhabitants, I let them run their course. I have had small colonies of zoo's that have had the same symptoms that I read today. In the past I have paniced and dip and added chemicals, changed this and that, and watched polyp after polyp die. I am now more apt to watch and evaluate than to act, and my success has increased. Not only with this so far, but with other tanks I have had in the past.

If I am aquascaping and I brush that rock too close and cut myself my body begins to flush the wound by bleeding. The area becomes red and mildly inflamed allowing more blood flow. As more blood flow moves to the wound white blood cells and platelets move in leaking out of the wound forming an ugly crust to stop the bleeding and form a bacterial barrier over the injured site to fight off any potential infection. Over the next few days to weeks. The wound goes from bad, very painful leaking a yellow/white clear fluid (white blood cells), to the edges growing together to a state of healing ,or equalibrim, or Homeostasis.

Could this be the same type of white growth that you see on your corals from time to time. Can this small animal have an immune system that can fight off foreign bodies by its self without out our manipulation? Could this be the answer the Mucho's LSF phenomenon?

Maybe or maybe not. I too am a man that knows everything about nothing. I know their are 100"s of ways to reef and obtain the same results. I know what has worked for me in the past, present and, with the luck of the reef gods, the future.

Thank you to all for a site to visit, read, learn, succeed, and fail, and to share these experiences with others.

For whats its worth.....

[The Beaut]

You might have one of these. this guy i saw with my own eyes eating my Zoas and taking bites out of my rics
http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/500/122832worm3.JPG

[vyger]

....What is thaaat??? Sorta looks like a bristle worm but more like a blood or sand worm!!!

[Downdraft]

YUCK!! Trigger food!!

[Opcn]

It seems to me that there are a few things going on here.

Firstly, when more than one colony in more than one location shrinks up at the same time I think a large volume water change is called for, If you are not an idiot about it waterchanges rarely cause any problems, and they will remove chemical agents (ones that perhaps will affect some morphs more than others) and will restore any missing trace elements. However, if its one colony after another that seems to shrivle up it may be the cause of another preditor, I have a friend who had GSP's and Zoas that were doing well, then the GSP's shrivled to nothing, then the zoa colonies one by one, Later I spotted an astrinia star on hsi glass, we removed it and the Zoas recovered, then he got more GSP's and more Zoas including some flourescent oranges and they were all doing great, well over the summer his fields of big bright GSP's wasted away to nothing and then his Zoas started to disapear. Lo and behold another astrinia star showed up, we haven't caught him yet, but hopefully we will soon.

[Ladipyg]

FWIW I have gotten to the point where I NEVER put a bare hand in my tank...now a days with scented soaps, fabric softners, hand lotions etc I believe by sticking our hands in the water some of this remains in the water...I've noticed zoas on the other side of the tank reacting when I was no where near them...I wear gloves, powerhead blast them weekly (just stick the right size hose into the powerhead and have at it) and most of all I was doing daily water changes of 10 gallons on a 75 gallon tank and did not lose a single zoa colony in over 9 years. Even a power failure that killed off my SPS tank barely rattled my zoas....kept the air stone going and put hot water in zip lock bags to keep the tank warm...within an hour of power on the zoas were happily open, even the silver strawberries...
Anyway, it's just a thought...

[CHAOSTACTICS]

This is a great thread, clearly I have more to learn about zoas will continue to follow this thread

[zoozilla]

I agree with you 100% CHAOSTACTICS. So much to Learn :o)

[kyle1284]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=5661331#post5661331 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Nuhtty
Mucho

I would like to thank you for starting this thread...very important topic IMO.

I take a turkey baster and "Wash" my zoo colonies at least twice a week.

I dont blast them because I dont want them to close up right away.

I give them a few gentle currents then I will be more forceful to get any other stuff that may be between polyps.

Thus far (knock on wood) I have never lost a single zoo. Some of the colonies I have double and spread rapidly and there are others which have literally only gained a few polyps in 8-10 months.

I have also had good luck in my tank with polyps that other people said were dead...a few days, sometimes weeks, in my tank and wouldnt ya know it...polyps start opening up.

I do FW dips on all new arrivals, whether from a friends tank or not and meticulously inspect each individual polyp (MUCH easier with small frags!!) for anything I dont like.

I pluck any questionably polyps...sometimes I get more carried away if I have a large frag to play with.

Anyway, thats my habit...not sure if there is any reason to my madness, but thus far it has worked well for me.

In about 2 months I will be moving from 4x39w T5s to 2x250w MHs with Actinic VHOs.

I dont expect any issues...in fact I expect even more growth.

so your having success with the 4X39 T5s? im thinkin about starting to collect some zoo's... do u think you can give me some suggestions as to which ones to collect and proper care? thanks

[workhurts]

Just noticed over the last 2-3 weeks that some of my zoas are remaining closed. I usually take a colony and place it on a rock, let it grow onto the rock for 6 months or so, then move the rock elsewhere and let it grow out another 6 months or so ... repeat all over the tank. So what happens is that I have 20-30 zoas from the mother colony in different sections all over the tank.

One of these batches just stopped opening up and shrinking. It's stuck on my live rock and isn't a frag so I couldn't do much with it. Oh well, what can you do, eveything else is doing well.

3 weeks later, in another section of the tank ... another batch of zoas from the original colony stopped opening up. All the other different zoas are fine. Now, I have no idea what's going on but it almost seems like the zoas from the mother colony are either susceptible to the same thing (in terms of water conditions or bacteria) or they're just programmed to turn off. Maybe when one set dies it releases something that causes the other set to close up. Who knows. It's ticking me off though.

[jor8888]

same here all my zoos died except the white ones and I did see some small bugs running around the zoos with my flash light they were moving very slowly so cant be pods.

[reefer_man_mike]

Where can you get lugols iodine?

[kweidner1]

I got tons of pods....Amphipods......piles of em......Can they hurt my Zoos?

[reef2]

ive recently had 3 colonies die on me.100 plus polyps each along with a few other corals. one day they r fine the next day they r all closed up with some kind of slime.has anyone noticed little clear or red bugs on the rocks not pods something else? the only way i can see them is to look at one spot on the rock were coraline is and u can see them move. im thinking it might be some kind of parasite that is eating the coral. i dont have any sps in the tank(zoo&lps only) so those r not red bugs im seeing. the reason i bring this up is im having the same problems as mentioned in other posts.im about to do a interceptor treatment and see how it goes as nothing else has worked.as i said there r little bugs on the rock so small i cant get a pic and all perams have been stable.just bringing this up to see if anyone else has noticed these bugs when having zoos die?

[vyger]

Where can you get lugols iodine?

I used regular tincture of iodine last time I did a FW dip.

[Skeptic_07]

bump a good thread

[IridescentLily]

Good thread.

[MUCHO REEF]

You can find it at just about any LFS or on line e tailer.

Mucho Reef

[192clark]

Could someone tell me what the best lighting is for zoos. I have read this thread and there seems to be a few different opinions. I know that happens a lot in this hobby but at what depth with each particular lighting is what I need help with.

Thank you

[captstinky]

great stuff here! THanks for all the data/experience

[yiliyang]

So other than low salinity, bugs eating it and lack of iodine, any other ideas?

I lost zoas this way before. Polys seems to do well.

I really like to know what melts my zoas.