Tough little Haddoni

[slimreb]

Well I just thought I would post this because I was extremely shocked to see this. I live in Biloxi so I got hit hard with Katrina. Well to make a long story short my house had a little over six feet of water inside from this storm. So naturally my tank went under also. So my tank took a lot of really nasty dirty brackish water from this storm. It took me 4 days to get to my house after the storm to check on everything. Well you can imagine my surprise that my Green Haddoni had survived this extreme shift in tank specs along with my two percs. When I got there my percs where swimming vertically and breathing really hard and the Haddoni had a very nasty slim coating around itself. I took them out of the tank then moved them to my sister-in-laws 55G tank until everything is done at my house and the tank is set back up. Well I am happy to report that the percs are doing great and the carpet is returning to normal. So it is unbelievable that this haddoni which is a hard to keep anemone could survive the amount of pollution that was in that tank with no water movement and no lights for 4 days with so many dead inverts and fish in the tank also. Just thought you all here would like to hear this story.

[Dlckwood]

Thats pretty amazing. Im glad you came home to a little good news.
David

[Gary Majchrzak]

slimreb- thanks for sharing. A sincere good luck piecing it all back together.

[RLMainers]

Awesome. So glad you shared this story with us.
Good luck and best wishes.

[zanclus]

Simply amazing!!!. It is great to hear some good news coming from down your way. Good luck piecing your lives back together. May your clowns be an inspiration to us all.

[N.T. university]

best of luck! you'll bounce back !

[BonsaiNut]

Amazing. Good thing salt water weighs more than brackish :)

[E-A-G-L-E-S]

That's UNBELIEVABLE!
Great to hear!!!

[MarksReef]

Thanks for sharing the story. Good luck getting every thing back together.
P.S. I bet your little friends were glad to see you made it safe too.

[MarinaP]

Great! Glad to hear that you and your animals made it.

When your new tank is ready, I will be happy to donate a few frags :)

[slimreb]

Thanks all for the comments. It was a great relief to see that my pride and joys some how made it through all this alive. When I saw that my house had flooded I assumed the worst for everything in my tank. But to see those two percs still swimming and the Haddon not being a glob of mush brought me much joy beyond words. I have had these percs from the beginning of my saltwater experience so really did not want to lose them.

I think when I rebuild my house I will add a little room onto my living room and make my tank an in-wall so I can use a much bigger tank for a sump than what I was using. The fun parts is going to be getting all those little critters going again when the tank is setup again. My pods population was high enough in my now destroyed tank to support two Mandarins and a bi-color blenny and keep them fat and healthy.

On a side note right now the tank that my Percs and Haddon is in also has about 5 RBTAs and two other mated pairs of clowns in it, being a pair of GSM and a pair of Cinnamon clowns. So that is three sets of clowns inside a 55G until my tank is back up and running. The surprising part is that no fighting has started between all these clowns even after them being together for about two weeks now. Though the female cinnamon clown is really trying to get into the Haddon but my female Perc is a mean little sucker when it comes to her home. Even though she is much smaller than the Cinnamon she is keeping it at bay and out of her home.

[slimreb]

Originally posted by MarksReef
P.S. I bet your little friends were glad to see you made it safe too. [/B]


You know I bet they were indeed happy to see that I made it safe. When I was getting them out of the tank I was able to get them without a net. In the tank I am in now every time I look at the tank my two Percs come out of their Haddon and with stay right in front of me. As if they are extremely happy to see me. I am just heart broken that I was not able to save more of my tank. I had two Mandarins in that tank (Male and Female) that had done the funny Mandarin mating dance the night before the hurricane came in. So to see that they had finally started to mate then this happens is hard to deal with, but at least my family and me made it through alive and in good health, plus being able to save some creatures is what counts.

[s13silvia]

wow, truly amazing for them to go through all that and still survive. you've got some strong clowns and anemone

[slimreb]

I figured I would respond to this thread instead of making a new one.

As of a week ago I am happy to report that my Haddon Carpet and two A. Percula are happily inside their old but new home. I know it is not the standard waiting period that a lot of people recommend to wait for a tank to mature. Though I had a lot of help from Tampa Bay Saltwater in getting my tank back together and have been testing my water every three days. So far everything is in very good shape.

The Haddon is doing great though has lost some of its dark green color as the tank it was in had low lighting. It has adjusted well to being under the Metal Halides again and is eating like a hog.

I have also recently put a Ritteri Anemone into the tank and it is doing super also. It has stayed where I had placed it inside the tank high up on the rocks and with strong random water flow directly below one of my MHs. The Ritteri was placed into the tank on Thursday and has so far eaten twice since then, though they were small pieces of krill and shrimp. The anemone still has a tightly closed mouth and is really looking beautiful.

I will try to borrow a friends digital camera as mine was lost in the storm to take some pics with. Once I am able to do that I will post those pictures up for everyone to see.

I must say a thank you to everyone here that had posted their success stories on how to keep a Ritteri as that has helped me be able to keep one. I know it is still early to call this a success but this one is doing 100x better than the previous attempts I had made. I got this Ritteri from MarineDepotLive.

[55semireef]

Wow thats truley amazing. Although, the haddoni carpet is one of the easiest anemones to keep not the hardest. But still that is remarkable.

[slimreb]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7630797#post7630797 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by 55semireef
Wow thats truley amazing. Although, the haddoni carpet is one of the easiest anemones to keep not the hardest. But still that is remarkable.

Thats rather interesting 55semireef. From everything I have read it is generally stated that S. Haddoni are hard to keep anemones. I know they are not the hardest to keep of the carpet family but they are not as easy to keep as say BTAs and the like.

Though I could be remembering incorrectly.

[55semireef]

Nope. BTA's and Haddoni's are among the easiest anemones to keep. I think you are thinking of Gigantea carpets. Now those are real difficult to keep and only for experts. Regardless, your anemone must have been in great shape to live something as dramatic as that. Remember, lots of people died, but an anemone lived. How does that work out?

[SVXH6]

55semireef----why would you make a comment like that?? even though haddonis maybe an easier anemone to keep, apparently his house and tank were flooded.. therefore power/heat water movement probably all lost.. then the fact of who knows what happened to the salinity level and water quality for four days..that is just an ignorant remark.. sometimes anemones/corals/fish cant survive a tank move, let alone a tank flood..

slimreb---- thats awesome its doing so well.. be sure to get pics when you can that would be great to see..how long has the tank been set up??

[55semireef]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7631680#post7631680 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by SVXH6
55semireef----why would you make a comment like that?? even though haddonis maybe an easier anemone to keep, apparently his house and tank were flooded.. therefore power/heat water movement probably all lost.. then the fact of who knows what happened to the salinity level and water quality for four days..that is just an ignorant remark.. sometimes anemones/corals/fish cant survive a tank move, let alone a tank flood..



Are you trying to start an argument? I was just making a correction and then I went on to say how remarkable it was that it lived despite all the dramatic events. I am sorry that you took learning the wrong way.

Still anemones are one of the simplest creatures but one of the hardest to keep.

[slimreb]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7631518#post7631518 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by 55semireef
Nope. BTA's and Haddoni's are among the easiest anemones to keep. I think you are thinking of Gigantea carpets. Now those are real difficult to keep and only for experts. Regardless, your anemone must have been in great shape to live something as dramatic as that. Remember, lots of people died, but an anemone lived. How does that work out?

Ok then I guess I will stand corrected. I had always seen books and people stating how hard the S. Haddoni are difficult to keep. As stated I knew that they were not the hardest to keep carpet that one being the H. Gigantea.

I still believe that trying to get a healthy Haddon is very difficult from most LFS as most are rather bleached and in bad shape. So is the case from some of the online fish stores as well.

One never knows why things work out the way they do 55semireef. I lost everything in my tank but somehow this tough little bugger survived all this. The other anemones in the tank did not do so well those being a couple RBTA and a Rock Flower Anemone.

No worries about how things were written here I did not take any of them as being rude or anything like that.

[55semireef]

Well they are difficult to keep. But out of the anemones they are among the easiest. In fact, SVXH6 is only adding on to my point with his statements.

[dantodd]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7631945#post7631945 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by 55semireef
Well they are difficult to keep. But out of the anemones they are among the easiest. In fact, SVXH6 is only adding on to my point with his statements.

as usualy it is more your tone than content.

Glad to hear everything is doing so well.

[slimreb]

Oh to answer svxh6 question the tank has been setup and running for the past 2 months now. I know it is not the standard wait period most people say to go by but everything is going well.

I have also had a good amount of live rock and sand from TBS that was added to the tank that I believe is helping to keep everything going well. As a matter of fact all the rock that was inside the tank before was just plain ol' brown rock when I placed it back into the tank and it is already being coated with coralline.

[55semireef]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7632044#post7632044 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by dantodd
as usualy it is more your tone than content.

Glad to hear everything is doing so well.

I didn't mean to have any tone. In fact, I don't know how you can pick up a tone in messaging. Its so subtle. But thats behind us now.

slimreb, got any pics? :D

[slimreb]

I do not have any pics just yet. I have not been able to borrow a digital camera from some one. Once I can get ahold of one I will take some pics and post them up.

I was sort of thinking about trying to make an A. Percula colony in my tank. I have a female and male pair right now but was thinking to add two or three more A. Percula (that are really small) to form a colony. Right now there is nothing hosting the Ritteri and I do not trust having different type of clownfish in the tank. Though I do not want the Ritteri to not have something hosting in it. Plus I have seen pictures of people having more than two of the same type of clowns in the same tank and thing it looks really cool. I can just imagine how enjoyable and educating it would be to see how a colony would interact with one another.

[55semireef]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7636806#post7636806 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by slimreb
I do not have any pics just yet. I have not been able to borrow a digital camera from some one. Once I can get ahold of one I will take some pics and post them up.

I was sort of thinking about trying to make an A. Percula colony in my tank. I have a female and male pair right now but was thinking to add two or three more A. Percula (that are really small) to form a colony. Right now there is nothing hosting the Ritteri and I do not trust having different type of clownfish in the tank. Though I do not want the Ritteri to not have something hosting in it. Plus I have seen pictures of people having more than two of the same type of clowns in the same tank and thing it looks really cool. I can just imagine how enjoyable and educating it would be to see how a colony would interact with one another.

You will not be able to get a perc colony. There will be tons of aggression from the pair you already have. if you were to get another female, the female you already have would fight to the death basically. Sorry.

[bluerug]

JUst skimmed through, now that is one strong anemone, thats awesome that he survived all of that trauma.

[colby]

Actually I think you stand a great chance of gettting a colony of percs going in your tank, ESPECIALLY since you have a large host anemone free....

I would recommend getting at least 3 little guys and adding them all at the same time, I have a colony of mixed perc/Ocellaris going in my tank and it is really fascinating...

Great stroy by the way and thanks for sharing...

Also, congratulations on keeping a difficult to keep invert alive and happy...

Colby

[55semireef]

From what I have read and what I have heard of others, three or more percs will fight. There will be a female, a smaller male and the rest immature juvis.

[colby]

Yes the little ones will be juvies. If you do it the right way however they will not "fight." Obviously there will be some of the common heirarchal bickering, but not all out fighting. In order to achieve this family scenario all one has to do is think like a fish and recreate nature as best as possible...

For example, why do clownfish fight?

Well they fight for dominance, the reason being the dominant fish gets the food and shelter. In the wild you will find family units of clownfish living in either very large anemones or a carpet of anemones. With plenty of living space available there is not much competition between the breeding pair and the juvies, therefore they are permitted to stay.

"Simply" do your best to recreate this in the aquarium. In slimrebs case it should work quite well. He has a relatively large tank with two large host anemones....plenty of real estate for a family of percs (granted Ocellaris may be a better choice...) The key here will be to introduce atleast three little guys to assure that the agression will be evenly spread out, you see the female perc will not attack anyone. She has no reason to, her position is threatened only by the male who she already has asserted her dominance over. The male on the other hand is going to feel the pressure and he will spend the first few days asserting himself over the newcomers. However they will quickly aquiesce and all will shortly fall into place. Then, the female will make the male quiver, the male the largest juvie and on down the line....

So in short to make this scenario work out it is important to do three things:

1. Provide enough real estate....
2. Provide plenty of food....
3. Make sure you have enough individuals to spread the agression...

Essentially reduce competition and keep a careful watch and all will be good, of course personalities of fish differ and ocassionally a fish will be rejected from the society, but in the end you should come away with a happy family of clowns....

Best of luck...

Colby

[55semireef]

That is for expert only. Thats great advice but not many on this board could handle that senario. By all means slimreb, I am not saying you couldn't handle it but its risky. Its your call not mine.

[colby]

Well I would by no means call myself an expert and I have sucessfully re-created this scenario several times. The key is just good observation, and anyone can have that. Also, IMO anyone who can keep a healthy haddons AND (especially...) a healthy Ritteri could be considered if not an expert atleast very advanced....

Also, with keeping fish experitise comes with experience, and there is no better way to get experience than by trying (please don't think I am implying something ridiculous like "oh let me see if I can cram this shark into a ten gallon" type of experience...I mean trial and experience based on logic and previous experience of others...).

I do believe that anyone can re-create this situation if they simply keep in mind the three things I listed....

Does anyone else here have a family of clowns they would care to show pictures of?

BTW...Have you ever noticed how clownfish in public aquariums are almost invariably ALWAYS kept in groups yet they still breed like mad?

Colby

[slimreb]

Colby thanks for the information. I have heard pretty much the same thing from other people on how to start a colony. I was looking at getting three or four rather small A. Percula as to have a better chance they have not matured to either male or female.

I am not claiming myself to be an expert as I know I still have a lot more to learn with this hobby. Though I feel I am advanced enough to try this and would be very watchful of the tank while doing this. I was also thinking of putting a strawberry crate inside the tank with a small hole were the juviniles could get into but not the matured clowns. This will give them some shelter were they can be totally safe if things go wrong.

I have used that same tactic before when getting a Mature Maroon to except a mate. The Maroon I had was a very aggressive fish and would really tear the other maroon apart. I was told about this method and it worked. This allowed the new Maroon to have shelter but still be part of the tank and thus in the eye of the other Maroon.

I am also happy to report that after two weeks for the carpet and one week for the Ritteri they are all doing great. Both are eating very well and have nice tightly closed mouths. I have been feeding them every other day a small to medium size portion of shrimp, krill, or scallops. I will also be getting some silcon and silversides as my carpet loved that combo which I used all the time before the storm.

[slimreb]

It has now been four weeks for the carpet and three weeks for the Ritteri and all are doing well.

Aonther piece of good news is I will be getting a Nikon D50 either today or tomorrow so will be posting pictures of the two shortly.

Just thought I would post an update to this.

[Flighty]

If you haven't added the new clowns yet I would recommend considering adding a handful of tiny skunks rather than percs or ocellaris. They seem to be a bit more open to the family group tank and the difference in shape and color might lessen the aggression that the existing pair have for the new arrivals. Small skunks can disappear into a ritteri if threatened. (It also looks nifty as heck if it works :) )

Just make sure you do a QT of at least a month to ensure you don't introduce a clown specific pathogen. Also, have a backup plan, because no matter what everyone here says, your older clowns might not tolerate new clowns of any type or age in their tank.

[slimreb]

Thanks for the information Flighty. I was aware that my existing pair might not accept any more clowns into their tank (and it is indeed theirs now). Though I am hoping they are still like they used to be and allow more clowns.

I have never thought to use skunk clowns before. Though I do like the pink skunks. I am curious as to how that would work though. Would the skunks stay as juviniles or would they become Female/Male?

The only draw back to this is the Carpet is directly below the Ritteri. There is space between them but not a whole lot. I am just glad that there has not been any chemical warfare between the two anemones seeing as how close they are to each other.

Oh and I love the pic of your Ritteri for your avatar. Truly amazing anemone.

[BonsaiNut]

BTW - in the tropics where carpet anemones occur naturally, they are often (in some cases monthly) completely exposed to the air during low tide. During some of these times they get rained on :( So they have to be tough in some ways to survive the abuse. Unfortunately, they can survive tropical rain showers for short periods, but they can not necessarily survive extended periods of low light, low water flow, dirty water, and rapid pH swings. :(

[55semireef]

Wow BonsaiNut. That was very interesting info. I always love to see what you have to say.



That would be very interesting to see what would happen with your skunls. I say go for it.

[Flighty]

I don't think any of us can predict how it will work out in your tank, but my best guess is that if they do accept them as a group, they will stay juvis. If they ignore them the skunks could form a peaceful family with their own male and female. Unfortunately, I think the most likely scenario would be that the percs won't be happy and will be very aggressive about the newcomers. That is one reason I think a larger number of skunks would be a better bet- spread out the anger and hope things settle down eventually. That isn't to say that I think any of the three scenarios are impossible.

Again, I can't stress the importance of QT enough. If you put sick clowns or even just stressed from the store and shipping in they are doomed because the pair of percs will recognise them as week targets.

I should add for anyone else reading this, the only reason I think there is a reasonable chance of success is the large amount of natural host anemone territory. The clowns look at the anemones as something they need to defend from anemone eaters and might accept a family to help protect them.

One last slightly pessimistic ramble- you need to be prepared for the possibility that the ritteri might not survive. They are known to look really good for several months and then nosedive from things going on inside which aren't easy to see. Taking an anemone out for whatever reason would likely change the whole tank dynamic.

[55semireef]

Yes I would like to see the Ritteri to see what type of condition its in.

[colby]

Hmm...skunks is a cool idea....I would imagine that could work out quite well...

The only potential issue I see is that skunks and percs do not have the same mating/submission dance and therefore signals can get crossed...This seems to be the issue with hybrid pairs( ex.chrys x sandaracinos) resulting in either fighting fish or not necessarily a family of clowns but just an association...

If what you really want is the family of clowns with the entire natural like interaction I would recommend Ocellaris above all other species...

On the upside if you maintained this skunk x perc association and it did develop into a family it could put you in the position to end up with "Thielli" progeny should one of the pair die or be removed...

Just food for thought...

[slimreb]

Thanks for all the wonderful information so far.

I was aware of the morality rate of Ritteri anemones. I have been reading up on them for a long time now. I have been keeping a schedule of weekly 10G water changes on the tank.

I moved the output of one of my returns today because when the water switched to that output it would look like direct flow onto the Ritteri. Well shortly after moving it the Ritteri started to move on the rocks. Once I moved the flow back to were it was the Ritteri returned to its spot.

The female A. Percula has stated to express some interest in the Ritteri. After getting home from work she was going from the carpet to the underside of the Ritteri. She would venture up towards its tenticles but has yet to go inside it. The male on the other hand has showed no interest in the Ritteri at all so far.

Well I got my new Nikon D50 so should be taking some pics soon and will post them up here for all to see.

[Flighty]

I wouldn't worry about the crossed signals. I have had both a breeding pair of ocellaris with a baby skunk living as a family- this is the female with the little guy
http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/500/56032DSC05253-large.jpg and currently have a pink skunk "female" which took a little tank raised Ocellaris as a mate while they were in QT together. I didn't intend that pairing to happen, but I don't have the heart to separate them now and am curious what the kids would look like.

[slimreb]

Well I have taken some pictures, but please bear with me as I am still figuring out this camera. I also need a tripod as my hands shake to much to get a clearer picture. Will try again later but this should give you the ideal of what everything is looking like.

Here is the Carpet

http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/500/71315carpet6.jpg


And here is the Ritteri

http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/500/71315ritteri.jpg

[TonyGee29]

those look AWESOME for what they have been through

Hope everything else is doing well!

[55semireef]

Thats a nice Yellow carpet. How big is it?

[slimreb]

The carpet is supposed to be green but I have not been able to fully figure out this new camera yet. The white balance and the likes is not set in that picture and I was not able to adjust it right in Photoshop. It has been a long time since I have worked with photo editing so hopefully I will be able to get everything correct soon.

The carpet is not as green as it used to be because the tank it was in since the storm did not have Metal Halide lighting. It is slowly picking its color back up though. The carpet is about 10"-11" across most of the time. After being feed it grows a little bit bigger.

The Ritteri is about 11"-12" across when fully expanded. Both are looking good and eating well.

[slimreb]

Well as promised, now that I have started to figure out this camera, here is the clear picture of my Ritteri Anemone.

http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/512/71315DSC_024.jpg

I caught my female A. Percula inside it today, but the male will not move from the Haddon. The female was totally hidden by the anemone until I went to feed it. Wish I would have had my camera at that time. When I got the shrimp close to the Ritteri my female perc pocked her head out and looked at the shrimp. I was suprised by this as she had never really went into the anemone before.

I believe the way she is with this anemone it will be hard for me to put pink skunks into the tank. I say this because it would appear that she has claimed both anemones as her homes.

[Flighty]

Wow, beautiful anemone. From what I can see it looks really healthy. Any way you can temporarilly divide the tank and not obstruct flow too much to give skunks a chance to get established?

[slimreb]

Well sadly I can not divide the tank for that. The Ritteri is directly above my Haddon anemone and slightly to the right. So in order to divide the tank I would have to move one of my two anemones.

That is one thing I do not want to do as it seems they both are extremely happy with the locations they are in right now.

So I might have to wait and see what the female perc does in the next month and go from there as to which I will add. I really like the Pink Skunks but am not sure how well it will go over. In the past my A. Percula have been very tolerant of other clowns in their tank as long as they stayed away from the host anemone. So hopefully the female will not concider them both her host.

[dantodd]

If your percula aren't spawning you might try introducing a mature pair of skunks. They may take over one of the anemone and let the percula have the other.

[slimreb]

My Percula have not spawned since the tank was wiped. The percs have been with me since I started into the SW hobby and do not want to put something in that would displace them. After everything that they have been through they are my pride and joy now. I can handle putting in maybe juv. skunks and hope for the best, but not sure about mature skunks that would fight with my percs and cause more damage.

I am just unsure on what I want to do. I want more clowns in the tank, but also want to add more color to it also.

[55semireef]

Hmmm so I see chemicle warfare isn't much of a problem for you. Your already lucky enough to have a beautiful ritteri and carpet after all of that. I wouldn't disrupt the balance. But thats just my opinion.

[slimreb]

It does seem to be that the two anemones do not have a problem being in the same tank and rather close to one another.

It would seem that my perculas are starting to do spawning behaviors. They are both cleaning up a section of rock underneath the Haddon. They clean for a little while then go back into the anemone and start to shake at one another.

The female percula is starting to spend more time inside the Ritteri but the male refuses to leave the Haddon. Since the female percula has been going into the Ritteri it seems to be opening up even more than normal.

I guess that one study that was done might have some merit. Where the study finds that H. Magnifica does better when it has a host than when it does not.

[55semireef]

Sounds like mating behavior to me.

[slimreb]

I guess my clowns are back to normal now. Yesterday they spawned on the rock they were cleaning. The female really did not like me being near the tank while they were doing that though. Whenever I got near the tank to look at them spawning she would rush to the front of the tank and bite at the glass.

I guess there was something they did not like about that spawn as they have removed all the eggs that they layed yesterday.

Even with them removing this clutch of eggs it is heart warming to see that they have returned to normal.

[dantodd]

Good luck. It sounds like either an infertile nest or they were too stressed and ate the nest. Be sure to keep them REALLY REALLY REALLY well fed. She takes up a lot of energy to make those eggs.

[55semireef]

Yes she will end up eating eggs if she is not getting enough food.