Petco and icthyocide

[Tom_Nev]

In the area I live there are 3 Petco's (and only 1 real LFS which isn't that local and of dubious quality at best). Here's my problem, I've been in each of the Petco's several times over the last few months. EVERY time I've been in, in each store, the marine fish are INFESTED with parasites and diseases. Additionally, they commonly have fish dying or dead in the tanks.

Yesterday, I went in to one of them and spoke with the attendant. They just received a shipment of fish that day (earlier in the day). A number of the newly arrived fish were already infested. I'm talking about 1 powder blue tang, a half dozen bursa triggers, 3 scopas tangs, some tomato clowns, 2 ocellaris clowns and a dozen varied damsels (At LEAST). I asked the attendant (short form), "what is going on with the fish, every time I'm in here they fish are infested and dying". She says, "I know it's very sad. Corporate won't even let us treat them, but sometimes we try to anyway. We just got some new ones today and they were really stressed out, some already had ich". This store is the best of the three with regard to the condition of their marine fish.

I went into another today. Half the tanks empty (I thought whew!). Then I see a volitan lion bloated and dead in the corner of one tank with a pair of niger triggers lying next to him panting.

This is despicable. Anyone else see anything like this at Petco? I'll be writing and calling them to complain LOUDLY, as well as suggesting they either get it right, or get out of the marine business. I had given it a few months to see if it was just an aberration, buts it's not, it appears as if this is business as usual. I have seen at least 4 shipments of fish, in each of the three stores (12 total), each end with similar results (once in awhile a particularly hardy specimen makes it a month).

If anyone else has seen this, I hope you'd also write, call, whatever (more voices is likey to make more of an impression)

[eatgoodfood]

For a little more ammunition, you might want to goto the other 2 stores and ask them the same questions about the diseased fish and see if they tell you corporate wont let them treath them.

Then maybe you could write a letter to the bbb(better business bureau) I dont know what that might do if anything, just an idea.

I think there is maybe one petco by me that has saltwater, im going to check if i get a chance.

I hate going into any pet store and seeing dying animals of any kinda, fish(salt and fresh) birds, lizards, rodents..

It makes you wonder what that says about the store the things their trying to sell to people are dying or dead.

But their all still in business so obviously the impact isnt much... just sad.


Andrew

[besl]

When I first got into this hobby I bought al my livestock at Petco - I didn't know any better. After stocking my tank over the course of approx 6 months I bought a puffer. Next morning I noticed he had ick. Went back to Petco to buy medicine - which they had none (how do you sell live stock and not have at least one bottle on hand for your customers, never mind to care for your own tank). Anyways, I went over to their tanks and saw that they had an ick break out. So now it was obvious that the puffer I bought the previous day had ick from their tanks. Out of curiosity I asked to buy another fish (mind you they had an outbreak and they were all now infected) - to which they were about to sell me one - anything for a buck, eh Petco!

I ordered ick medicine on line, unfortunately by the time I received it my tank was completely wiped out. I hate to see such a loss of life, plus a financial loss of approximately $150. I spoke to the Petco store manager who was well versed in their store policy as he recited it for me and did absolutely nothing for me.

Ultimately this is Petcos loss as I have not purchased any aquaria dry goods or live stock since. Ultimately that is how the responsible reef keeper can send such places a strong message - don't buy from them!!!!!!!!!!

[Tom_Nev]

Originally posted by eatgoodfood


I think there is maybe one petco by me that has saltwater, im going to check if i get a chance.

I hate going into any pet store and seeing dying animals of any kinda, fish(salt and fresh) birds, lizards, rodents..


Andrew

Please do check. I've looked at their other livestock, seems fine (cats, dogs, ferrets, reptiles, turtles, etc.) just the marine fish. As a kid i kept everthing under the sun; snakes, lizards, turtles, mice, cats, birds, racoon, tarantulas, frogs, ad infinitum (drove my Mom nuts).

The PetsMart in our area at least has the sense to know that they don't want to deal with marine fish (as I believe is the case with all of them, not 100% sure though)

I will ask in the other stores as well though I don't trust the attndants in one of them (overheard him giving advice on keeping turtles which was completely WRONG). The attendant I spoke to was genuinely upset and concerned, no doubt. It really disturbs me to think that over 740 stores (Petco franchise) could be getting a new shipment of 50 +/- marine fish a week and be treating them like this (if suspicions are confirmed).

[Tom_Nev]

Originally posted by besl
So now it was obvious that the puffer I bought the previous day had ick from their tanks. Out of curiosity I asked to buy another fish (mind you they had an outbreak and they were all now infected) - to which they were about to sell me one - anything for a buck, eh Petco!


Sorry to hear that. Thanks for the input.

[ShellBell]

I used to work for Petco, they did not have saltwater fish, but they cared more about stocking shelves then they did about caring for the animals. The animals were dying left and right. I would stop stocking the shelves to take care of the animals, even though I would get in trouble. I ended up telling them off and quit!! :mad2:

[eatgoodfood]

imo petco would be a better company if they did not carry animals and just stocked dry goods.

but we all know that will never happen



Andrew

[ShellBell]

Originally posted by eatgoodfood
imo petco would be a better company if they did not carry animals and just stocked dry goods.

but we all know that will never happen



Andrew


I totally agree!!!!!

[RobP]

Some of the Canadian PetSmart stores sell marine fish. One I was in had a Scopus and a Powder Blue and both looked like they had been cyanide caught because they were emaciated. No ich in the tanks but what difference does it make if you starve to death first. I guess we have to make a decision in keeping these animals. That decision first is to either spend the money and try to give the best environment for them we can afford or don't do it. Its not fair to the animals. Second we need to send a strong message to stores by supporting only the ones that actually care for the animals. In this case that means not buying at PetCo or PetSmart for anything fish related or otherwise. They are happy to sell products to better care for your pet all the while torturing helpless animals. Its just not right and should not be tolerated by our financial support. I don't make any distinction between this and a common puppy mill !

[ShellBell]

When I see an animal that is poorly taken care of, I want to buy it to try to give it a better life. But then again I am, in a way, supporting their neglect even though I ACTUALLY CARE. It is a no win situation that makes me very angry. I wish people cared about animals like I, and most of the people on RC, do. I think people totally disregard fish as animals worthy of taking proper care of. I am sorry I am ranting, but enough is enough!!! :mad2:

[brad23]

The petco here isn't as bad, but at least one of there tanks out of the 12 or so has dead or sick fish in it. Full size tangs in 15g in most of them. And 20+ fish in the rest of these 15g tanks.

[Ti]

Petco here sux.
ICH central.

[steveoutlaw]

Unfortunately Petco is a disgrace. They will put full size tangs in a 20g tank and stress the hell out of them. Then they act like it's your fault when you try to save them and they die. Unfortunately it's better to just let the fish die at Petco because if you buy them from Petco.......Petco is just going to keep ordering more and they will keep getting diseased. I've boycotted Petco for good.

[Tom_Nev]

Originally posted by steveoutlaw
Unfortunately Petco is a disgrace.
...snip
I've boycotted Petco for good.

I would encourage each of you (and any that follow) to go to their web site and send a nastygram with specifics about the marine fish husbandry in the store nearest you (they have a customer service link and some verbage about wanting to make everyone satisfied). If there is only a couple of negative comments from one specific area it's not likely to make an impact. Also, encourage any of your friends or reef club members to do the same.

Unfortunately, I don't think boycotting will do much (I won't buy there). Four years ago there were no Petco's here, now there's three within 30 miles.

[drunktank]

the sad part is, its the petco systems. I know personally the wholesaler who sells to the Petco in my area, and i've been to his warehouse and his fish are more then perfect. When i go to the petco he sells to near my house, i notice dead fish, corals, and diesesed tanks. I even notice mislabled fish. They just arent up to selling marine live stock, even the personel didnt know what to say when i asked questions, considering i work at a LFS.

There is a place called Petgood, dont know if its a chain store or not, but they had excellent live stock and the employee knew what she was talking about.

[eldudeereno]

ive seen worse around here i just dont understand how they can sell fish with no knowledge of there care or real needs its just bad the 10 inch volitian lion in the 10 gallon tank it makes me real sad poor guys

[schristi69]

Each time I have gone into the local Petco there have been dead fish. Last time they had 2 dead damsels and a dead puffer. The water was extremely cloudy and looked like very low flow through the tanks. I told the cleark, who was stocking, and she just gave me that deer in the headlights stare. Considering one of the fish they were selling was $75.00, which had also died, you would think they would do something to stop the profit loss.

[Bigchris7709]

The Petco down the street from me has only been open a month and I see PLENTY of dead fish in that place. MArine and freshwater. I can't believe the people oohing and ahhing at the little nemos cant see the other three dead nemos in the back of the tank and the other two hiding and breathing really fast.

[billsreef]

Originally posted by drunktank
I know personally the wholesaler who sells to the Petco in my area, and i've been to his warehouse and his fish are more then perfect.

I know that wholesaler too. Here's an exercise for you, FW dip a few fish and see how many flukes pop off ;) Especially the large fish like angels, tangs and butterflies.

[Mr.Maska]

come on now i thought everyone knew to stay away from petcos, why purchase iche and parasites when u can buy fish lol

[Scuba Oz]

They are bad here also, I always tell them how many dead fish I find when I go in there, the girl is just like "really, oh okay" then I watch her do nothing about it. Pretty sad. I dont shop there at all, they are next to where I get my hair cut so I always make a point to count dead fish everytime I get my haircut

[billsreef]

Originally posted by Scuba Oz
they are next to where I get my hair cut so I always make a point to count dead fish everytime I get my haircut

:lol:

[hex1]

A petco in pasadena ca, had a large aquarium/wall that divides their fish section it was at least 1000 gallons. it was a aggressive fish tank with some very large eels and lions and some LR, this was a fairly new store and i was initially impressed by the display tank, but their stock tanks were just as bad as the previous replies.
eventually their "show " tank became a algea display. finally they realised their errors and broke down the marine tank section for a few months. the large display is now freshwater, their marine section is now about a third of what it used to be but the animals look a bit healthier that before. hopefully they have employed someone with experience with marine tanks. I never purchased stock from them, and i guess many others didnt as well otherwise they would not have changed.

[Edge]

I worked for a medium sized chain pet superstore years ago. It's privately owned and the owner of the company uses his friend's fish wholesale company to supply fish. just FW, they experimented w/ salt in my store and we kept them healthy but they just weren't cost effective. Anyway the problem with the fish was the entire operation. The fish that came in were usually highly stressed, and diseased. Medication was standard procedure for all new arrivals. There were numerous complaints by employees about the poor quality livestock coming in but the complaints fell on deaf ears. We would pull out nearly 10% of the entire fish population daily due to deaths. There was little the employees could do. All of the tanks were on one linked system with a central filtration system, similar to most large operations. So if one tank was diseased, they all were.
The bottom line when dealing with livestock in large chainstores in general is just that, the bottom line. When one considers the costs of feed, bedding, water, electricity and floor space devoted to the livestock the stores are operating at a loss. They make no profit selling a platy or mollie at $1.29. or a neon at $1.49. the reason they have animals is to get you to buy the dry goods: tanks, cages, food, treats, chemicals, lighting, etc., and keep you coming back for these items. Why do you see so many promotions for a free hamster/ gerbil with the purchase of a cage? The store that Tom_Nev went to is just looking at costs. Why take medicine off the shelf that will bring in $5.00 profit to save a fish that will only bring $.50 profit? It's just not good economics. Livestock or medication or food, it's all just a product to sell. Movie theatres do the same thing. The theatre doesn't make that much money off each ticket sale. The money comes from concessions. The tickets just get you in the door so you can buy the $4.00 soda and $3.00 popcorn.
The laws usually only care about the warm and fuzzy animals.
It's just business.

[nikoendo]

PETCO mistreats their fish.. they give foolish unknowledgeable people the resposiblity of keeping the saltwater fish. Everytime I've talked to some of them they are very novice...

[BrianPlankis]

Originally posted by Scuba Oz
They are bad here also, I always tell them how many dead fish I find when I go in there, the girl is just like "really, oh okay" then I watch her do nothing about it. Pretty sad. I dont shop there at all, they are next to where I get my hair cut so I always make a point to count dead fish everytime I get my haircut

Hey man,

You should email your counts to petco each time you do it. If everyone else would do this, maybe a difference could be made. We don't have any Petcos by our house, one Petsmart but they don't carry SW fish. Their FW fish are in pretty good shape actually.

Brian

[MCary]

Thought I better sign the petition. PetCo here in Kalispell Montana is just as bad. They get fish in once a week and they're usually dead before the next batch comes in. A doctor friend bought a fish there that wiped out his entire tank. He has since learned the term "quarantine". What really surprises me is some of the fish they get in. These fish would have difficulty surviving in a experts aquarium, never mind their pisbowls. Achilles and powder blue tangs for instance.

Please do not confuse these jokers with PetSmart. Pet smart does not have SW fish and the fresh water fish they have are some of the best I've seen. Plus they cater to some of the serious hobbiest's by offering bigger tanks and better equipment.

[jbaker6953]

I had the same experience with the Petco in Fort Collins, CO. Their fish were in terrible condition. One time, in the middle of winter when it was about 10 degrees below zero, I saw their supplier park the truck full of live fish out side, open the back door, and go inside. He left those fish sitting there for more than 20 minutes in -10 degree weather. Even their freshwater fish were always in attrocious shape. I do not shop at Petco. Petsmart always had had great fish.

[Ploppers]

I have also seen poor conditions at Petco.
I also have a friend who purchased 1 fish from them that wiped out his entire tank.
I remember them getting an achilles tang in that seemed to be doing pretty well the day they got it. It was dead by the end of the week.

On a lighter note, at the Petco near me both of the people who maintain the saltwater tanks seem pretty concerned about the fish they carry. They are by no means as knowledgeable as many of the people on these boards, but they don't seem to want to sell a Nemo to everyone who saw the movie.

[worlds under]

please support local HOBBIST stores. shure you may have to pay a little more, but you get what you pay for.

[doony]

i was gonna by some blue damsels andclowns and the girl working had 2 big tanks she said never buy fish from us

[Ploppers]

Originally posted by worlds under
please support local HOBBIST stores. shure you may have to pay a little more, but you get what you pay for.

As far as local stores goes. I was at a local store a few days ago. I actually pointed out a couple of their new fish had died and were stuck to power heads or being eaten by crabs. The girl promptly went and grabbed a net and pulled them out.
It kind of surprised me because everytime I've pointed out dead fish at "other" stores I've gotten the "oh, thanks, we'll get right on that" and never see the salesman again. :rolleyes:

[Gawain1974]

Fortunately, we don't have any PetCo's around here, but the descriptions you are giving sound similar to some of the LFS around here.

[SeaSpza]

The local Petco in Quincy MA is as bad as the ones you all are talking about.My brother in law got 2 clowns a couple weeks ago and they died within days.We also saw a weird looking clown that looked like a mix between a tomato and a ocellaris and when we asked the guy who worked there what it was, he said i dont know.Then he said that it looked like both of them combined.His next statement blew me away.He said maybe one of their clowns "hit" something it wasnt supposed to.I couldnt help laugh in the mans face.I never buy from chains myself and now I know why.

[LFSmarineguy]

I get customers in my store all the time who shop at petco and will argue with me about what they were told about their fish at petco. I have been to several petcos and I have yet to meet an employee I would trust with a pet rock. Their info is either something they managed to pull out of their butt or something they were told by someone who has no idea what they are doing. The stores near me keep fish in tanks together that should never be kept together even if it's for a few days until they are sold. My store even hired a "marine expert" from a nearby petco who applied for a job when we were short... after his first 3 days I banned him from the marine tanks and now he no longer works with us. The volume of misinformation they give out is amazing. They let dead fish rot in the tanks. Forget the chemical ramifications of that, as a consumer I don't want to buy anything if I see a dead fish in the tank.

[SeaSpza]

I went into a petco in Cambridge MA last night just to check on their fish and it was an ich farm.Add that one to the list of bad ones.

[Brian5280]

They are all bad. I have been in 3 petcos in Colorado and I don't think they had a single healthy fish.

[tdman3627]

Hey guys
its been a while since i have posted on here, but i frequent the website all the time. Anyways to the topic at hand. READ THE NEXT FEW WORDS SLOWLY, i am a petco employee lol. I just started two weeks ago. I live in gainesville, (i go to school here). I was brought on to be the aquatics specialist. I have a 55 gallon reef tank and a 12g nano cube. I know a lot of stuff about saltwater fish, treatments, the whole nine. The problem that petco faces is its coporate office, and their tank set up. First, the set up: Every two columns of tanks are connected to one main sump. They dont skim or use UV sterilizers. All of the tanks run through bio wheels before going back into the sump. I hate the set up, each tank has poor circulation. I can go on and on. Anyways about the coporate policy. When i first came i immediately asked about treating the tanks for ich. Side note, our saltwater fish are in very good health. SInce i have been there we have only lost 1 clarkii clown. The company only allows to treat ich with clout and salts. Its terrible, i want to use copper safe, but we cant get enough and its not approved. Ill keep you posted on our success at the petco in gainesville. Right now everyday i go in, i srub all algae in sw, and change as much water as i can throughout the freshwater tanks. Im slowly bringing everyone back to life. The previous people had no clue about fish at all. At least one petco is on the rise.
Ryan

[SeaSpza]

Its good to hear someone is fighting for Petco's fish from the inside.However it seems the corprate handcuffs will in the end hold you and any other Petco employee from really saving those poor fish.What if we all get together and sneak in some meds for the Petco fish.All we need is one contact in each Petco to administer the med.LOL ok everyone go out and buy some Coppersafe and pick a Petco.:)

[Ploppers]

Today I went to Petco and purchased a Foxface. Yes I'm quarantining it. ;) The only reason I got it is because it seems to be extremely hardy. It had been there for a couple of months now and always seemed to be in good health. I got it home just a little bit ago. I'm drip acclimating it as I type. Just to check how far off their SG was I tested it with my refractometer. SG was at 1.019.:eek2: I didn't test anything else because I figured the fish being stressed out would have thrown them way off anyway.

[jpslickorocks]

I have a friend who works at petco here in Az and when I first got into the hobby he would not let me buy fish from them. (thanks buddy) and he has said on a few occaisions a lot of the same stuff you all have said. They have "corporate handcuffs" and there is nothing they can do about it. I wont even buy dog food there anymore, and I get the employee discount through my friend, because of the animal husbandry. So my thought is... We all need to write our concerns to them as specified in this thread, but also don't be afraid to say something at the store. Just be polite and no matter how bad thier reaction may be don't lose your head. (catch more bees with honey you know) also include a link to threads like this one so they can see our concerns. I don't know... Just a few ideas from a guy in marketing and advertising. Good luck all I am proud to join you all in the battle to save one fish at a time.

[Ploppers]

Funny thing. They had a sign on one of the tanks that said something like "At Petco animals come first, questions or comments call 1-888...." I should have written the number down. :rolleyes:

Oh by the way the Foxface I purchased is doing great. Eating just fine and being quite active in his QT tank.

[sophia101]

I live in Upstate NY but occasionally i visit NYC :) and when i was down there i visited the petco that was there...i just wanted to take a look at them just to see what diferent species they carried. As i was looking in the different tanks there were at least 5-10 dead fish altogether throughout the different tanks, ug! I would never buy any livestock from petco! They dont treat their pets very nicely especially the marine fish, they should definetly not keep marine fish...i think they should just sell dry goods!

-Sophia

[meister_ben]

I work at a Petco here in Green Bay. I have seen lots of other Petcos just around my area with tons of problems with their marine life. I'm amazed and, quite frankly, humiliated to be associated with these fresh-out-of-high-school employees. Everything said here hold true for me as well.
I have kept aquaria since I was old enough to work, and since then have only added to my obsession. I work with 3 other guys who all have their own CO2 planted tanks, SPS tanks, clam tanks, and FOWLR tanks. The fish we receive every week are occasionally emaciated, diseased, or very stressed. We all do our very best to keep our Petco from turning into all the others. It's a losing battle. Every week damn near, our corporate office tells us that we aren't going to be using certain medications. First it was Rid Ich (sucks anyway, but works for livebearers.) Next it was Coppersafe from our SW system. Honestly, the only medication at our disposal is "Clout" anti-parasitic medication, which does nothing for SW or FW.
Myself and my friends are forced to make a decision, buy meds from a store that actually carries what we need, or watch as our marine life withers and our customers shun us. Needless to say it got quite expensive. We have done everything in our power to keep every fish alive and thriving, but Petco just doesn't care! When I asked our District Manager why we aren't able to use Rid Ich or Coppersafe, she replied "It masks the symptoms. Then when someone brings it home in a non-medicated environment, the symptoms return." Here's what I heard: "Petco doesn't make money that way!" I've thought about quitting several times. But if I quit, who will step in to take my place? another prepubescent juvenile who'll assume I know nothing?
What I'm trying to say is that while most Petcos are all the same, there are a few that do try to make a difference. I completely agree that Petco should not sell live animals or fish. Of all the Petco managers and associates I know (about 20), there are only 4 that know anything about aquatic life, myself and my 3 friends. Other Petco stores call us when they have a hard time treating their tanks, or ask to send us their dying corals or fish. Can you believe the corporate office actually makes us sell anemones? I doubt there is a Petco in the country that can keep them alive. Do you think they will buy us more intense lighting? HA!
Every year, the general manager from each Petco store around the country meets for their annual "Trade Show." Each year, they discuss what each one of you are saying, and, instead of coming up with solutions, they decide which species of marine fish they want to send each Petco store with little concern with it's survivability. It's appalling.

[Jasonanatal]

I also have 2 Petco's within my area that are completely infested with Marine Ich yet they still attempt to sell these fish to customers that have no clue that they are sick. I spoke with a general manager as to why they are allowing sick fish to be sold. The answer I was given was that they are being treated every night. Talk about straying far away from the company vision of putting pets first and not your wallets.

[Jasonanatal]

You can call and make a complaint about a Petco store at
PETCO Animal Supplies, Inc.
Customer Relations Team
9125 Rehco Road
San Diego, CA 92121
Phone: 1-888-824-PALS(7257) (7 days a week)
Fax: 1-858-784-3489

[Rhas]

I guess I'm lucky. The local Petco here has two really good employees in the fish section. Matt and Tony.. They treat any fish that is sick and even have a qt tank of there own set up out back. I have nothing but praise for these two guys. There tanks are spotless and there are no floaters. I know it isnt the norm butit could be. Rob

[DoctorDuke]

My wife is a manager at Petco, working in many of their stores over the past 6 years or so. We have more exsperiance with the company than I personally want.

Considering their polices and having visted many many stores the majority are doing a good job. However the ones that are not really put a black eye on the company. Basically it comes down to if the aquatic specialist is good or not. Some are bad, some are learning, and some are amazing.

I have seen managers fired on the spot for a dead feeder mouse in the display. I have picked up many small animals that cost less than $20 from the vet with bills in thousands. They have a health garentee and animals returned will be taken to the vet, it happens everyday.
My wife was almost terminated, when she was first promoted to asociate, because she went along with the vets recomendation not to preform some $3000 high risk surgery on a feeder mouse. They really do not play around.
Just this week she has personally raised over a thousand dollars in donations for a local shelter. This one store probably donates/raised 20-40k a year for local shelters.
The store she is at now does not have marine tanks, but the freshwater was horrible all quarenteened and nasty. It is much better now, people where just in over their heads and undertrained.
I will have to look into some of the the things I have read here, exspecially meister_ben. We have good freinds and aquatences in corporate and around the country. Pre-pubecents are not allowed to work at petco, you have to be 18 as of a few years ago. The best LFS here was opened by a kid straight out highschool as if that mattered anyway.
They also get their fish from the same distrubutors as everyone else, and are subject to same problems.

[Jasonanatal]

Well I just went to the Petco in Poughkeepsie, New York and devided to take a chance and I purchased a small peppermint shrimp for my Mini-Reef Tank. The shrimp died within 2 hours of leaving the store. All my water parameters are correct and yet nothing I purchase from Petco ever survives. I find it difficult to believe that many Local Fish Stores have near to no problems with their livestock yet Petco has an a serious issue with keeping healthy fish.

[glyle41]

I like to go to the nearest one to me just to look around would never buy anything from them was in there a couple of weeks ago and they had like 50 small false percs in 15 gal tank they had so much ICH on them you could hardly tell what kind of fish they are its so sad to see but I am lucky I have a whole bunch of top notch LFSs near me

[iflyprops]

I was at one here in orlando and found the same thing. They had a yellow tang with something that looked like a magget growing/hanging? from its mouth. The aquarium lady, who seemed very nice and reasonably knowledgeable said they were having MAJOR issues with their fish suppliers. Said she had been there 12 hours that day just doing water changes, 100% water changes because so many fish had died. Said she had to throw away at least 2000 dead feeder fish.

It was pretty sad.
-Adam

[Broodingwolf]

It is not surprising to me that they are ich magnets when they keep purple tangs in FIVE GALLON containers.... its the worst. Everytime I go in there, I'm so tempted to buy something to "rescue" it, but I know that is just encouraging the bad animal handling so I don't.... Its a shame. I wish they would not carry fish. Shrimp/snails/crabs/corals would be much better.

[Jasonanatal]

It's funny how Petco always blames their fish supplier for the issues that they are experiencing due to poor husbandry of their livestock. I doubt that their supplier is catching that many sick fish on purpose.

[davidcalgary29]

I have a few good LFS in my area, but have discovered that none of them can really be trusted for providing consistently reliable advice. One store with beautiful stock has consistently tried to push powder blue tangs and large angels despite my stated tank volume (75g). I actually did end up buying a beautiful triacnid after being convinced that my compact fluorescents were sufficient. Bah!

[grimmjohn]

I just got a job at petco for some bank till I hear back from med school so I would like to address some of the stuff mentioned above (this is by NO MEANS a defense, I'm a hobbiest first and foremost too ). I knew that I knew more than enough to run the store from a livestock perspective and knew that I would be a valuable asset, and help save some fish in the process, and have ended up teaching everyone a lot. I walked in, told the big manager more than he knew about almost every animal in the store (which is fine, he's a manager right?), was hired immediately, and started an hour later and have been getting over 40 hours a week since...so petco will hire good people if they can. They can't help it if an experinced hobbiest/biology student/animal expert doesn't apply (I guess $7-8 doesn't cut it, any of you want the job you can have it..the guys with marine biology degrees are spending grant money on a boat over a reef somewhere, not working at petco for under 20K a year) . I think that most managers want to keep as many animals alive as they can, but then there is a "corporate" side too. Our store has not had any ich infestations since I started, and the "dead list" has begun to shrink. (all dead fish should be removed every morning at 7AM and several times through out the day as per company policy (and as an animal lover I wouldn't have it any other way.))
I wish that I had time (or we had the employees) to allow me to spend all of my time in the fish/reptile section instead of stocking and other stuff, but I don't yet.
Also, I know it's a crappy excuse, but sometimes fish just die. We get in a shipment of several hundred fish, acclimate them, put them in the tank, feed them, keep the water decent, and some just die. I'm pretty expereinced, but I don't know much else to do..anyone else? I like to show up at LFSs when they get in their shipments to get a deposit on the good stuff, and ya know what? Some of their fish are dead too, more die within 24 hours, and some die within the week, or before they are sold...multiply that by the volume that petco's deal with and well...
Many people order online from stores with amazing reputations and one out of ten or so of those fish die too during shipping or within the week too, multiply that out? Fish are going to die; I can feed them, maintain water quality, try to medicate them, but some still die. It breaks my heart cuase I get to pick out the dead ones too...but anyway.
So, a good aquatic specialist, and an understanding, willing big manager can go a long way to making a petco a very decent fish store (no comment about the berlin skimmers and no PHs over 200GPH, or decent hydrometers for sale).
Being a hobbiest first, I have sent lots of people to my favorite LFSs for goods/livestock that we don't carry, or that they may find cheaper, and usually end up telling them they should check those stores (and RC :D) out anyway, but I am trying to make petco a better store, and give people the same level of advice I would expect to find from good members here.
Back to "corporate," which was mentioned before. Our catalog that we can order livestock from is disheartening in many ways. It included many fragile species of butterflies, goniopora, X-mas tree rocks, mandarins, and every kind of anemone (yes Ritteris and carpets) you can think of (except BTAs?). I doubt many petco stores in the nation have the capabilities to assure quality conditions for these creatures. I took the book and told all the managers what we would more than likely kill if we ordered it and could not turn it around immediately (not that immediate turn around is a good thing, I could git rid of all the Ritteris we could order if I said they lived in FW too and ate algea.)
Anyway, my favorite is that flame scallops require "high intensity full spectrum UV light :lol: ." Anyway, that's my take on petco, ours is pretty good, I'll try to help make it better, some fish are gonna die dispite my best efforts, help as many people as you can along the way, stay away from the bad ones, if you can stump the main "aquatics speicalist" then go somewhere else, or apply for a job () : )

Again, this isn't a rant, or a defense of bad petcos, just an appropiate place for me to ramble on about my new job to a group of people that care and for whom it is relavent. () : )

Cheers,

grimmjohn

EDIT: Guess I'll keep going () : )
We've only gotten one shipment in with ich, a bag of small black moor goldfish, most were dead within 24 hours despite my efforts. And only two fish have gotten ich since I've started, 2 parrot cichlids, I took them out of the tank with oscars and they cleared up.
A manager ordered a naso, a PblueT, et al...they come in Wed. morning, I think a few of them figured that now that they had somebody that knew about SW/reef tanks they would get in all the "cool" stuff they've been missing out on. It's gonna be my job to figure out which fish go in which tanks this morning, all the lions and puffers isn't gonna make it easy :rolleyes:
I'm really worried about the powder blue.
I'm kinda disapointed...they asked me if I had anything I wanted to order and I told them "I bet we can sell some firefish/purple firefish pretty quick, some false percs, and a dwarf lion or two, a snowflake eel, a couple YWGs, and some chromis." I'm worried that we're gonna get in this huge order instead. I'm really worried about finding a customer with a 125+ tank to take that naso and 100+ for the PBT and the purple tang we already have (not to mention the 2 baby panthers we have, though every LFS in the world has a tank full of baby panthers and assorted tangs). Anyway, hopefully everything will work out great, I'm pretty sure I can make all the fish happy (I hope I can find some decent angel food for the baby koran I think we're getting though).

[grimmjohn]

I really hope we do actually get in some firefish, I was planning on useing them as "dither fish" for the purple tang cuase he's crazy shy right now and that's affecting his eating. I guess some chromis would work too though, I think damsels would beat him up.

And about the profits...I don't think I've even earned my pay in reptile/fish/drygoods sales. And I know my manager and I have dumped more chemicals into the feeder goldfish tank (the pH wants to go insanely low? Too much resperation without adiquate aireation?? Anyone?? I'm always learning too :D) than the sum of them are worth. I guess this store is a corporate tax write off () : )
Most people buy mollies/platies/swordtails, which I have zero interest in, and have never bought in all my years of fishkeeping; I wish more reef/SW people would come in (and that we sold MHs and SEIOS) everytime someone stays in front of the marine fish I ask if they have a saltwater tank, a plea in my voice () : )

Oh the worst thing I've done so far (first bagging experince) Someone stood around for a long time, making notes, considering all the fish, I assumed they were not retarded, anyway I bag them like 8 fish without thinking about it (though I did make sure they were all compatable :D). I did ask what size tank she had and she said a 55, so I was like not bad, a big biowheel, good etc etc... anyway, apparently at the checkout counter she mentioned that she still needed to add water to the tank!! I felt like crap after that, knowing that, I myself, had doomed those fish....so the moral of the story, most fish keepers are not reefcentral quality. I would like to say to assume they are idiots untill proven otherwise, but that's not true, but I hate asking every customer what size tank, and how long it's been set up etc...cuase that would tick me off if people tried that crap with me () : ) And many (not most) do seem to know exactly what they are doing (but so did "no water girl"). Like this guy comes in all the time to check the guppies, he loves guppies and knows his crap, I bag whatever he wants, no questions, but when people ask "Where are the uhmm, what do you call them? Fish cages?" Then ya got some explaining to do ya know.

Aside: Ya know all those dog cookies up front on the bar? They are above human consumption standards! And some of them taste pretty damn good!! Ask a worker for one below the bar that hasn't had hands run through it and try it, dare ya () : )
The oreo-like ones are my favorite so far () : )

[BeltwayBandit]

"Aside: Ya know all those dog cookies up front on the bar? They are above human consumption standards! And some of them taste pretty damn good!! Ask a worker for one below the bar that hasn't had hands run through it and try it, dare ya () : )
The oreo-like ones are my favorite so far () : )"

Yah but milk-bone brand dog biscuits are very dry and rather tasteless, almost like eating cardboard.

Oh, good job on trying to keep up the fish dept. I refuse to buy marine fish from petco. I will spend the extra money and go to my LFS where they quarantine all new arrivals for 1 week before they sell them.

[grimmjohn]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6237869#post6237869 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by BeltwayBandit
Oh, good job on trying to keep up the fish dept. I refuse to buy marine fish from petco. I will spend the extra money and go to my LFS where they quarantine all new arrivals for 1 week before they sell them.

I try () : )
QT, as in a special tank before they go on display? Or QT as in they just don't sell them for a week? Cuase you can let a fish sit in any store for a week before you sell it, but that doesn't make it a QT really.

The fish order came in today...pretty big, and I handled it all by myself (for the first time), took a really long time, and it was very hectic cuase I would get called away for a price check or to get some crickets or something :rolleyes: didn't even take a lunch and stayed 45 minutes over to make sure all the noobs got fed. This was the best shipment in terms of DOAs I've seen...1 damsel (duh), 4 bumblebee gobies (duh), 2 corys, and a small clown loach.
In SW got in a huge juvi koran, got him eating pretty quick (amazing), a six-line, 2 bar gobies, and 24 damsels. Lots of stuff didn't come in, and I'm glad the PBT was one of them cuase I would hate for it to (probably) die on my watch.
Anyway, I guess I'll see how they are tommorrow when I come in () : )

Cheers,

grimmjohn

[Jasonanatal]

I know of plenty of local fish stores that QT their new arrivals for fish for sometime more then a week. In this hobby you QT your fish before you introduce it into your display tank so why can't Petco introduce this method to ensure healthy fish are sold? Your store maybe be an oddity from the other chains Grimmjohn but the majority of Petco shouldn't be allowed to sell Marine Fish with their inhumane methods.

[grimmjohn]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6238795#post6238795 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Jasonanatal
I know of plenty of local fish stores that QT their new arrivals for fish for sometime more then a week. In this hobby you QT your fish before you introduce it into your display tank so why can't Petco introduce this method to ensure healthy fish are sold?

I guess we like our fish dying in our display instead of some backroom? () : ) By the time we get the DOAs out, then the "dead within 24 hours", then a week goes by isn't that the same as QT? Just don't buy your fish at petco within a week of them coming in, then you're pretty well assured you have a trooper () : ) I'm all in favor of QTs, but it would require twice the floor space and tanks we have now, and I don't think they are going to spring for it, Petsmart doesn't either (or most LFSs), and for all I know the wholesaler QTs and we get shipped what survives.
It seems if you're worried about getting healthy livestock then just wait a week or two after fish come in (AKA QT), regardless of where you buy them, but if you actually care about the least amount of fish dying then QT doesn't really cut it on a petco level IMO. Fish either die of ich or apparently randomly (at least to a non-autopsy performing non-vet), and I haven't seen any die of ich yet, that leaves lots of random deaths. I could dump every chemical on the shelf into all of the tanks, which doesn't sound too pleasant, or we can treat the obvious signs (ich, agresssion) and pick out the ones that die overnight from something else...how would a QT help? Prevent ich? They all have ich, every fish that goes through a wholesaler probably will get ich if you treat it like crap, some will die from it, don't treat them like crap and they don't "get" ich.

So what would a QT do:
We get in fish, fish go to a back room, treat fish for disease, some fish die, pick out dead fish; one week later, some fish better (assuming any of them had ich), some dead (assuming any of them died), some still fish still have ich or have now contracted it, and some fish fine like the day they came in (assuming they all didn't die or come down with a disease).

The other QT method: Get in fish, "fine fish" go to display, "sick fish" go into a "sick tank" (though a sick tank would be worse than euthinization in many cases and possably hundreds of individual tanks would be cost prohibitive). Anyway, "fine fish" on display still die of unknown cuases, many "sick fish" still die, and some sick fish may get healthy, and some "fine fish" will still get ich if you treat them like crap.

Petco corperate method: Get in fish, put fish on display, treat sick fish, pick out dead fish. "Fine fish" live and die, "sick fish" die or recover...it's the same thing people! Except in one it happens in a back room where your delicate constitution doesn't have to be affronted by seeing a few fish with ich or a dead fish or two that has not been picked out yet. Not that any stellar LFS has never had a dead fish in their display tank.

I'm sure that the second method might help prevent some sort of deadly plague from running rampant through the displays, but probably not becuase the "fine fish" are probably really "sick fish without symptoms." I guess we could do the second method with three levels: Sick fish, "fine looking fish," and then "fine looking fish which became sick." And then 2 months and 4 hundred tanks later we have fish we can put on display...probably the same fish that would be left 2 months after the "petco method," though there was (hopefully) never the chance to spread this deadly plague to other fish.

In conclusion, if I'm bringing a fish home to my fully stocked reef, I would QT, but from the wholesale and retail side it's totally different...every place you've ever bought fish...do you know what you are buying?? The SURVIVORS! Not the ones that died during capture, or shipment, or holding, or wholesale QT, or retail QT...the survivors. But instead of you paying for the overhead of allowing the fish to die in a back room somewhere and the survivors then being put on display, you can wait a week or two before you buy it from petco, and that will be the same as almost any other retail "QT." IMO.
Again, not a rabid defence of petco, I'm just trying to be logical...if we often had deadly plagues then it would be one thing, but the same fish from the same wholesaler are going to die no matter who they get shipped to as long as we do the best we can (food, water quality, no neons in with the oscars etc...), or am I wrong about this?

[QUOTE]<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6238795#post6238795 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Jasonanatal
[B]
Your store maybe be an oddity from the other chains Grimmjohn but the majority of Petco shouldn't be allowed to sell Marine Fish with their inhumane methods.

Gotta go..be right back

[grimmjohn]

Back () : )

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6238795#post6238795 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Jasonanatal
Your store maybe be an oddity from the other chains Grimmjohn but the majority of Petco shouldn't be allowed to sell Marine Fish with their inhumane methods.

That may be true, I know I'm usually disappointed from a hobbiest standpoint by most petcos, but that's cuase they don't really have much a serious reefer needs (or can't get elsewhere), except some fish, but I've got my pair of clowns, don't want the wrasse of the tank to be a sixline, won't add any shrimp, eels, dwarf angels, chromis, damsels, tangs, firefish etc..I'm tapped out on fish basically, certainly from the stuff they carry...and they don't carry tridacnids or acros so I'm out () : )

I've never seen a store like some of the people on this thread described so I don't really know what to do or say, the worst store I've ever seen was a LFS, not that the fish were being badly kept, they just didn't have much and didn't know anything about them/reefs.
That does suck for those fish and the people that shop (shopped) those petcos. All I can say is what I've already said, a good aquatic specialist and manager can make a very decent fishstore, a decent manager that doesn't know a thing and doesn't have a decent (or any) aquatics specialist can still do pretty well if they just follow the husbandry guidelines and assign people maintainence jobs to do. You might not get the nitrogen cycle explained to you in detail or anything, but the fish will probably be alright.
A bad manger/aquatics specialist could easily let the deptartment slip into an abyss though, which I'm sure is what many people are describing.
That's not the fault of "petco" per say, if they can't find a decent aquatics specialist as I mentioned, but I guess it is if the manager sucks that bad. Though as many people have mentioned, one petco can be crap, and the one in the next town could pimp the LFS, it just depends on the people there at the time.
I'm sure it may be more ethical for stores to discontinue carrying fish until they have a decent manager/specialist/track record, but that's a lot to ask of any corporation, crappy LFSs don't shut down on their own, they have to go out of business.

Cheers,

grimmjohn

[grimmjohn]

Well, today when I came in the two dog-face puffers were showing signs of ich, which means every fish in the system is possably infected. I asked the manager what they do in the case of saltwater ich and he said "uhm treat it." So I asked him how they treat it and he said "I thought you would know?" So anyway, I look up what the "corporate" solution to ich is and it just says "treat with copper." Great, that will really help most people. Anyway, so I go to the shelfs to look for some coppersafe (not that I would feel very good about using copper on puffers either, it would be better to let them try to get over it theirselves IMO than treat them with copper, but the rest of the fish should be fine.) Anyway, we didn't have any coppersafe, and there was a blue dot on the sticker...I was told that means we are out and will never be getting anymore in??? So the "rules" are to treat ich with "copper," yet we don't have any?
I know others have mentioned this predicament earlier in this thread, but it seems weird when it happens to you personally ya know...anyway..we did have some crap with malachite green in it (don't want to dye the display do we?), and we had some crap with formaldahyde in it (don't feel to good about that), and we had some stuff with quionine in it (don't feel to good about that either), so I've decided I'm going to do the safest, 2nd most sure-fire thing, I'm going hypo on the whole system for a month or so. We don't have inverts and even if I did treat with copper (dispite the puffer's sensitivity to it) I can see somebody selling a fish while I'm not there and not telling the customer about it and then them going home and just dumping in the bag and taking out whatever inverts/coral they may have in their tank, not to mention we could never put inverts in the display again, and not to mention the copper level has to be meticulously mantained, and since I'm not there every day and can't trust anyone else to do it then it would be nearly useless, and at the worst deadly.
Anyway, back to the hypo..so today I took the salinity down to 1.0015, and Sat when I go in I'm going to take it down to 1.009. I'm not even telling anyone about it cuase I doubt I could convince them that's the best thing to do, and I know they wouldn't find out by theirself :rolleyes:
So hopefully in a few weeks our SW tanks will be completely free of ich, yeh () : )
Though I am kinda worried about the koran and the hypo I don't see any other option that doesn't involve more tanks, and I don't have the authority to set up any more, and I'm certain the managers wouldn't like using that much store merchandise.

BTW, funny story, today we got in some ORA clowns...we got in three B&W false percs, but when I got in we only had 1..and he wasn't in with the percs...he was in with the 3-4 stripe damsels!!! I'm pretty sure that somebody sold a pair of B&W percs for $3.99 each (2.99 with pals card :lol:) cuase they thought they were damsels!!!
Some hobbiest got a good deal () : )

The red sea purple tang's lateral line is starting to not look so good, I'm pretty sure it's cuase he's cramped and not eating anything. I put two false percs in and he started swimming around more but he's still not eating. If he gets any worse he may "die" so that I can take him home where he'll at least have some LR to pick on, maybe rejuvinate a little (though not many come back from lateral line disease (if that's what it is, though it can't be very advanced cuase he don't look that bad)), and then I can get him to a hobbiest that can take better care of him. Maybe I'll ask a manager if I can just take him home to see if he will get any better and then bring him back cuase I really think the poor guy is going nowhere. I would take him home now (and make sure we don't get any more in) but $75 is a lot even with a 20% discount.

Anyway, that's petco land, been working there 2 weeks now, shoulda got paid today, but my check didn't come in, go figure.

Cheers,

grimmjohn

[billsreef]

John,

The Koran will be fine with Hypo, as will be any fish ;)


BTW coppersafe is heavily chealated which makes it well tolerated, even by copper sensitive species like puffers.

[grimmjohn]

Thanks for the heads-up bill, I learn something new every day on this site () : )

I guess it's moot though since we don't have any, I guess I could buy some from another store and bring it in but I'm not there every day and can't trust anyone else to dose it for me :rolleyes: oh and nobody knows the volume of the display system so dosing anything wouldn't be too easy, I guess I could call MARS, though hypo is easy, just turn on the water and watch the hydrometer.

Thanks again for the reassurence, I can't wait to go in Sat and watch the salinity fall (and my fish clear up) () : )

Cheers,

grimmjohn

P.S. Any comments on the RSPTang?

[BrianPlankis]

When you sell the fish to customers, make sure you mention that they need to slowly adjust the salinity. Going from 1.009 to 1.026 is going to be a huge shock if not done slowly.

B.

[billsreef]

John,

Marineland should be able to tell you the volume. However, if you want to calculate it yourself, the formula for volume in gallons is LXWXH/231=gallons. The meausrments need to be inches, and should be the inside measurements to give you actual gallons held.

BTW if you want to have some fun and get mad at aquarium manufacturers, apply that forumula to standard tanks like a 55. None of them hold the stated "size" :eek2:

For the Tang, try feeding it carrot shavings. They are high in both vitamin C and vitamin A. Hopefully the store is already getting some for the guinea pigs and such, and you just steel one ;)

BTW when it comes to buying items out of pocket for a store, be sure the manager will reimburse you ;) Makes no sense for an underpaid associate to shell out money to help a multimillion dollar store chain ;)

Oh, and CirolanidHunter is quite right about being insuring your customers do a drip while your running hypo.

[grimmjohn]

Thanks for the tip Cirolanid, I plan on it, and I guess I should warn everyone else what I'm doing in case they sell a fish while I'm not there, I just hope none of my managers/coworkers are think I'm crazy () : )

Bill, thanks for the tip on the carrot shavings, we do have some in a bag of mixed salad stuff, I'll pick them out for the tang.
I also have heard about the volume discreprency...apparently manufacturers are more worried about being able to stack the sizes inside each other?

I actually went in this morning on my own time and fed all the fish and lowered the salinity down to 1.011...one of the clowns that came in and immediatly layed on the bottom and started panting has already perked up, I guess cuase he's saving energy with the hypo?

"Makes no sense for an underpaid associate to shell out money to help a multimillion dollar store chain"
--I don't care about the chain, just the poor tang, if I were not an employee I would hope they learn a lesson from it's death, but I am an employee so I feel more responsable for the fish ya know...

Cheers,

grimmjohn

[Ploppers]

Speaking of koran angels. The Petco here had one in their tank for probly 2 weeks. I was going nuts rubbing up against the rocks and gravel in the tank. The aquatics specialist told me it was just because it was getting its adult colors. That's not true is it? :confused: Anyway it died later that week.

Oops I just noticed in my earlier post I said the salinity was at 1.019 I meant 1.009. Maybe they were doing hypo on the whole colum, but they had a lot of inverts in that colum.

[grimmjohn]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6258225#post6258225 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Ploppers
Speaking of koran angels. The Petco here had one in their tank for probly 2 weeks. I was going nuts rubbing up against the rocks and gravel in the tank. The aquatics specialist told me it was just because it was getting its adult colors. That's not true is it? :confused: Anyway it died later that week.


That's not true, and sorry it died () : (
Ours is about 8-9 inches and it is partially adult colored..but does not rub at all. Our Koran sold today before I got in, not a bad fish for $40, though not one of the prettier large angels IMO.
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6258225#post6258225 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Ploppers

Oops I just noticed in my earlier post I said the salinity was at 1.019 I meant 1.009. Maybe they were doing hypo on the whole colum, but they had a lot of inverts in that colum.

Maybe, I hope it was deliberate () : ), I bet the inverts were not happy.
By the way, we got some "turbos" in that are actually astreas.
And I told my manager about the hypo so that he could tell anyone he sold a fish too, and it sounded like he was on board, then I come back from lunch and the salinity is back up at 1.022...Errr...On the street we call that "baller blocking"
And he printed off the new petco corporate guidelines...apparently the one's I saw were from 2003, the new ones say to NEVER use copper in the SW display.
The 2005-2006 Marine Ich Guideline:
To treat one fish: Take the fish out of the display and place it into freshwater for 5-10 minutes.
That's it, no mention of temp, buffering, pH etc...
I guess the point is to either kill it or just knock off some ich spots so it's sellable again? No mention that if one fish in the system has it then they all potentially do, or that the fish still has ich/will get ich again soon as it lays down again.
Anyway, back to the guidelines:
To treat the whole system:
If many fish throughout the display show signs of ich then turn the temperature up to 83F and do a 50% water change every week for 2 weeks.
I **** you not. So the point here is to quickly let the ich kill all the fish it's gonna kill, and let the fish that are gonna get over it get over it quicker.

Oh and I only have 32 hours this week, still haven't been payed yet, all is not well in petco land.

cheers,

grimmjohn

[billsreef]

The 2005-2006 Marine Ich Guideline:
To treat one fish: Take the fish out of the display and place it into freshwater for 5-10 minutes.


Now that would be absolutely hilarious, if it wasn't meant seriously :(

While a FW dip can be very effective on some ectoparasites, it is not effective on Marine Ich at all. Here's (http://www.petsforum.com/personal/trevor-jones/marineich.html) a very good article on the subject by ATJ, an Australian aquatist with a very good understanding of the subject. You might want to print it out to show your boss, and be sure and point out the list of references from scientific journals. Something I'm sure the fish disease ignorant person that came up with that "policy" can not provide to support that silly position of FW dips for ich.

That said, doing FW dips on fish you get before they go in the tank, can remove a number of troublesome parasites. Most noteably flukes, which are all too common from some wholesalers.

[bookfish]

edit

[grimmjohn]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6266995#post6266995 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by billsreef
Here's (http://www.petsforum.com/personal/trevor-jones/marineich.html) a very good article on the subject by ATJ, an Australian aquatist with a very good understanding of the subject. You might want to print it out to show your boss, and be sure and point out the list of references from scientific journals.


I actually already had that bookmarked (and Steven Pro's article) () : ) And am very familliar with ATJ, for some reason we always end up posting in the same threads over in the SPS forum...it's kinda funny () : )
That said, thanks for the link () : )
Though I doubt I will get into one upmanship with my boss and his precious Petco guidlines, that probably can't end well..(though when I was telling them about the hypo I mentioned that "the PhDs are on my side") () : ) Well, I'd like a pay check before I get into one upmanship anyway () : )
That said, it sucks that my employer's idea of "treating" sick fish is just try to kill them quicker...sounds kinda dystopia like, I wonder if there is a "Room 101" waiting for me :rolleyes:

Thanks billsreef, cheers,

grimmjohn

Oh P.S. Came to work yesturday and the powder brown we've had that I had been working on since I started (it wouldn't eat and looked like crap but I had finally got it eating well and it was coloring up beautifully) had ich spots and was laying in a corner breathing fast, then died 5 minutes later...totally out of the blue (if two other fish didn't already have ich)...anyway ****ed me off.

[tokitay]

OK Everyone, Here is how you do something about it!

Don Cowan is the director of media relations for Petco. He is very accessible, I just called him on his cell phone and got right to him.
Don was very concerned, and asked if I could forward the info from Reef Central to him.

Can one of the moderators please e-mail this thread in its entirety to DONC@Petco.com. Don is at their corporate headquarters at 858-453-7845.

Also, anyone who has had a bad experience, please e-mail Don!

Being a business owner, I realize things happen. Unfortunately, every business works from the brains down, so expressing our concerns to store clerks is often an exercise in futility.

In order to truly help our beloved hobby, it would sure be nice if everyone who has posted would e-mail your comments to Don at Petco. He has the power to help fix a big problem!

Thanks,
Lee

[tsutherland]

I know what you mean I posted this
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=726660

If only we could all ban together and do something. I called corporate and was told that they will look into it. I told them to take my info and that I wanted the district manager to call me and let me know what he or she is doing to correct the problem. I am thinking about witting a local news station and try to get a problem solver like story done on it.

[grimmjohn]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6270518#post6270518 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by tokitay
Unfortunately, every business works from the brains down, so expressing our concerns to store clerks is often an exercise in futility.


Being little more than a "store clerk," I don't know if I should be offended by my implied impotence or my implied brainlessness () : )

Also, considering I do kinda like my job, and that I can't make any difference without working here, and that my profile and first post on this thread contain everything anyone with access to a petco employee database needs to single me out, then you'll have to forgive me if I'm not too excited about using this thread as ammo for your crusade.

Cheers,

grimmjohn

[Texas Aquarist]

I try to stay away from Petco whever possible.

[jpslickorocks]

Grimmjon I really don't think tokitay ment you in particular. I personally think you are doing a great thing in trying. Tokitay was saying that in general. I think you are an exception to his statement. You are one of the goodguys buddy.

[billsreef]

tokitay,

Take a look at the little blue links just under the quicky reply box, the middle one is "email this Page". Feel free and use it to email Don the link to this thread. Since you have his cell number, I'll bet you have his ear better than most ;)

[75oceanic86]

Its pretty depressing for me to go into petco, all of those sick and dying fish, and im pretty certain they dont even feed their fish. The petco by me has three large groupers, prob 5-6 in. confined in those tiny little square tanks. Surprisingly enough they have stayed alive for a while but thats prob because whenever i go there i make sure each one secretly gets a feederfish.;)

[tsutherland]

I talked to Mak Henderson from Petco today, he is a regional companion coordinator. He told me that the store that is close to me should not even have inverts. And he said that he talked to the store that I was in and that they are treating for ich, I will see next time I am in there if that is true and I will also see if they are feeding well because all of the fish I saw looked way to skinny. He also said that only stores with special desplay tanks should be carring the corals and other inverts. I brought to his attention that the knowledge of most of the employees working around the saltwater displays is poor to none. He said that the company knew that and they were going to start making employees take a class per say on marine life to get an idea of what is going on. I was also told to call him back if things did not get fixed. Have any of you seen these special tanks for the inverts, because I haven't. this is his number 858-395-3159 and assuming he is not blowing smoke he seems like he really cares. He may not be able to help where you are but I would say that he could get you pointed in the right direction. I tried and am still trying to do what I can but it is going to take all of you that have a problem with the way things are done at Petco to say something too.

[Ploppers]

I have a couple positive things to add about Petco.
I purchased a 40 gallon breeder from them for a sump a couple months ago. It started leaking along the bottum seem in the front and seemed to be getting worse every day. They replaced it even though I had drilled the back side of the tank for a return pump. That was pretty nice of them.
Best of all the foxface I got from them is doing excellent.

[grimmjohn]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6300332#post6300332 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by tsutherland
I talked to Mak Henderson from Petco today, he is a regional companion coordinator... And he said that he talked to the store that I was in and that they are treating for ich

If you read my above posts you'll realize that "treating" ich is a generous use of the term () : )

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6300417#post6300417 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Ploppers
They replaced it even though I had drilled the back side of the tank for a return pump. That was pretty nice of them.
Yeh, petco is really good about returns..we'll take back anything...and if anything in the store is marked incorrectly or in the wrong spot then you get that price...like if a $15 dog toy ends up in the $1 bin then we have to sell it for a dollar, apparently.


cheers,

grimmjohn

[tsutherland]

I understand what you mean I was also told by an employee that they used copper to treat ich at that store and we all know that copper and inverts don't mix. I will keep trying but it is almost pointless when you know that they really don't care overall.

[Fishfirst]

indeed, they don't... I have often had petco employees ask me why their tangs, angels, and triggers ect. don't do well. I've asked them to tell their pet care manager to stop selling tangs, angels, and triggers because of their aquatic system flaws: too little flow, no quarentine, no UV, no protein skimmer, too high of nitrates/poor water quality, too small tanks. I've also told them they shouldn't order so many clowns, hasn't affected them one bit. They keep on truckin' with the Powder blue tangs, clowns, and lg angels. I've even confronted the pet care manager directly... she doesn't give a rats butt... I almost worked for petco... almost, but I decided I couldn't take the massive losses and the arogant management (the petcare manager has a "saltwater tank")/company policy...

grimmjohn, the new clowns probably were adversely affected by the salinity being too low and not properly drip acclimated (which would take hours depending on the bags salinity).

[grimmjohn]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6305356#post6305356 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Fishfirst
too little flow, no quarentine, no UV, no protein skimmer, too high of nitrates/poor water quality, too small tanks. I've also told them they shouldn't order so many clowns, hasn't affected them one bit.
Our MARS system actually does have a beckett skimmer with a reaction chamber about the size of a 2 liter coke bottle and automatic cup drainage, and our nitrates are consistantly in the 20s, less when I went hypo for the two days. Those readings are not bad at all for fish only systems. I'm also explained how most LFSs do not QT adiquatly, if at all...most "One week QTs" just make you feel better, a month long QT would be more satisfactory. I do wish we had more flow to help with cyano and one cheap UV unit could help assure that disease would not spread between the tanks, but MARS built the display, not petco :shrugs:

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6305356#post6305356 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Fishfirst

grimmjohn, the new clowns probably were adversely affected by the salinity being too low and not properly drip acclimated (which would take hours depending on the bags salinity).
When the clown shipment arrived the salinity was normal. I lowered the salinity to 1.015 that evening after the shipment was already in the displays. A couple of the clowns looked bad from the get go (before the hypo). When I came back the next day to lower the hypo to 1.011 all the clowns looked good. The day after that my manager raised it back to 1.022 or something. The clowns still seem fine and none have died.

There is actually a school of thought that maintains that having 20 fish in a bag during an overnight shipment means that ammonia will build up to harmful levels..but at lower pHs (like what will be in the bag) the ammonia levels are less toxic...when drip acclimating fish for hours, that raises the pH in the bag, thus making all that ammonia much more toxic, which can harm the fish.
So, at petco, I float the bags for 20-30 minutes, then get them all out of the bags as fast as possible, on the premise that anything is better than being in the horribly polluted bag water any longer, and that a drip could hurt more than it could help. Obviously for more sensitive creatures extra precautions must be taken..like for marine snails/inverts...12 snails in a big bag of water doesn't get that dirty, and the snails are much more sensitive, so I dripped them for a little over an hour.

cheers,

grimmjohn

[Fishfirst]

although a valid point about the ammonia, when you drip acclimate you also add water to the bag, nulling the affects. Also, it does depend on how many fish you get per bag, I only usually had 1-3 depending on the species. I used to work at an lfs too, and i've drip acclimated several sensitive species, and had much better luck doing that than just throwing them in the tank. Ph shock, IMO, is worse than ammonia, and fish can tolerate ammonia for a while.

[Ricky@3rdshift]

John I am just curious about how you recieve fish b/c Ours do not come in over night. They come in via UPS ground. yes I know bad bad bad!!!!

I am also in the Arkansas area. Ft. Smith to be exact.

I have a lot of the same frustrations as expressed in this posts, but I am hopefully convincing some MGMNT to go against the system and prove better results by changing things.

[tsutherland]

It's great to have people like you guys trying at least.

[grimmjohn]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6369374#post6369374 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Ricky@3rdshift
John I am just curious about how you recieve fish b/c Ours do not come in over night. They come in via UPS ground. yes I know bad bad bad!!!!
I am also in the Arkansas area. Ft. Smith to be exact.
I have a lot of the same frustrations as expressed in this posts, but I am hopefully convincing some MGMNT to go against the system and prove better results by changing things.

Ya know, know that I look back, I'm not sure how the heck the fish get to the store, I assumed the trip from ORA/Seagrest was overnight, 2-night at least. Ground from Florida would not be over a day or two anyway right? I'll look at the shipment label more closely on the next one.

Nice to meet another Arkie () : )
I thought the Ft. Smith store was supposed to be something to "aspire" to, all I hear is how good Ft. Smith and the other stores are and that we suck and we need to get sooo much better and how their aquatics are run sooo much better. The Ft. Smith one was supposed to have an amazing girl that really knew her stuff from what I was told? I've been there though and wasn't impressed really, it's not ET or Just Fish even. Same setup, no matter how much knowledge she has it's still the same guidlines and everything. A brighter cog in the same wheel is just as good as an oily cog apparently, and will just get grimey over time.

At this point I'm not sure what I can change, if anything? I do think that the managment here wants me to get more involved, I finally got the $.50 specialist raise and I don't work register as much anymore, but still have little to no say in ordering, and there is still not much to do except try to do water changes more frequently, actually feed the fish, sell the live ones, and pick out the dead ones. I'm honestly lucky if I can get around to putting some nori in the tang tank, much less make sure the substrate in all the tanks is all in that nice little forward slope corperate likes so much. And on Thursday all the snakes are supposed to get fed and all the betta waters get changed (among other opening duties) and lets just say more often than not I can't do it even without a lunchbreak, and I'm pretty sure nobody else even knows/notices/cares. I did get to change the betta water once so far, the only time it's been done that I know of since I've been hired. I got a lecture about the "efficency curve" for my efforts. Apparently it was called into question which area my efforts were in: Urgent, but not important; Important, but not urgent, Urgent and important; Not important or urgent. MBA double-speak man. I was like "the scedule says to change the water on Thursdays, I'm doing it, we lose like 5 bettas a day, how the heck do you kill a betta!?"

We can try Ricky, but we're still just "associates" and can really only do what we're told and try to sqeeze in the other stuff when we get a second to spare. So far for me at least. Time will tell, the 1K a month is starting to sink in though.

Cheers,

grimmjohn

[MAreefer1]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6305356#post6305356 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Fishfirst
indeed, they don't... I have often had petco employees ask me why their tangs, angels, and triggers ect. don't do well. I've asked them to tell their pet care manager to stop selling tangs, angels, and triggers because of their aquatic system flaws: too little flow, no quarentine, no UV, no protein skimmer, too high of nitrates/poor water quality, too small tanks. I've also told them they shouldn't order so many clowns, hasn't affected them one bit. They keep on truckin' with the Powder blue tangs, clowns, and lg angels. I've even confronted the pet care manager directly... she doesn't give a rats butt... I almost worked for petco... almost, but I decided I couldn't take the massive losses and the arogant management (the petcare manager has a "saltwater tank")/company policy...

grimmjohn, the new clowns probably were adversely affected by the salinity being too low and not properly drip acclimated (which would take hours depending on the bags salinity).

Does PETSMART cary saltwater fish???

[grimmjohn]

That may be rhetorical () : ) But no () : )
Is the consesus that it's OK if you only support the collection and death of FW fish?

Cheers,

grimmjohn

[Hattie B]

WOW.. Guess I am on the lucky side of things as the Petco in my area does not sell any Saltwater fish and has a very small section (like 2 shelves) of saltwater supplies.

I have seen some bad looking rodents at Petco and I work with rodents all the time and let me tell you 25 rats no matter what size they are do not want to live in a 10g tub.

Anywho, not to go off topic have any of you been to a Wal-Mart and seen the fish section?

Seriously, they house freshwater fish, and I don't think any fish should suffer the way they do. I mean there must have been 60+ Mollies of all sizes most prego in a small 15g. When they we were swimming, if you can call it that, I actually felt really bad for them becuase it seemed they could not swim anywhere without being on top of another fish.

Amber

[Fishfirst]

I'm sorry, but our specialty department here is #1 in our district for animal sales vs animal loss. I've worked both in the corporate owned fish stores, and in privately owned fish stores, we have almost exactly the same rate of death in each case. However, I do not deny that petsmarts elsewhere have an ungodly death rate, as I've seen it first hand. But I've seen the whole petco fish department shut down because they were losing everything. "fish under observation" it said, but all I saw were dead fish.
On a side note about the irony that I suport the "death" of freshwater fish and not saltwater, I think the "death" of freshwater fish can be a little more forgiving as almost all the fish we get at petsmart have been captive bred. Not that any fish should die, but it does happen you know.

Frankly petco doesn't have the policies or the personel to even consider saltwater fish.

[piranhaking]

In regard to the long "what good would a quarantine do post, here is the logic.

The usefulness of the idea counts on the main tank being healthy and stable, otherwise it is useless.

You have a bunch of healthy fish in the main stable system.
you get in new fish.
if new fish that are sick are put in with all the healthy fish in the stable main system everything gets sick
if you put the new fish in quarantine and make sure their healty before adding to the main system it remains healthy and stable.
If the fish in quarantine end up being sick you can treat them and if you do lose them you only lose the new fish and the "old"fish in the main system arent hurt.

the reason you think it is useless is because in the case your talking about the main system is a mess, and isnt healthy or stable.

i would like to add to this that i dont think we should judge every store or every employ by the bad ones. The store as a corporation is bad as can be seen by the limits they put people in many of these cases. There are people that work there that dissagree with what is done and try to stop it. I dont think we should judge those people by the bad apples. I personaly dont deal with our local petco because it is much like the bad ones mentioned here. If you find one that is an exception then mabey if that store does well it will show people higher up the chain something. Mabey it wont, but thats just my two cents worth on it.

[nodoubt471]

I am one of the many converted who used to work at petco. Petco was what made me interested in saltwater hobby about 4 years ago. I would also like to add that it is our own store policy to have the customer do their own research, and we ask them questions before they purchase a pet to confirm that they know what kind of care needs the animal they are purchasing requires (don't get me started on those 13 year old kids that buy green iguanas not knowing that they grow to be 4 feet long!!!)

The problem is not the individual Petco- however incompetent their sales staff is- it is the wholesaler that provides the fish. Might I add that there is one Marine Wholesale Supplier who sends us fabulous, healthy fish (tank bred only) and these fish generally do fabulous in our tanks. The main supplier, who sells us both salt and fresh fish, is horrible (on both the fresh and salt side of things).

Petco Corporate will not allow us to use any medications in our tanks, instead suggest that we freshwater dip. Anyone who knows anything about marine Ich knows that freshwater dips are inneffective- the cyst surrounding the dinoflagellate is nearly impermeable! It is extremely frustrating to clear up an infestation, only to have it return the next week when a new shipment of fish come in, when it would be so much less stressful for the fish to enter a copper treated tank instead of playing around with salinity (with a SWING ARM HYDROMETER!!!!!! IMPOSSIBLE!!!). I know that copper is a dangerous medication and must be carefully monitored and is not appropriate for most home reef tanks, but in a commercial situation it is extremely important. The only reason they discontinued the use of the medication was because of the price of it (if I remember correctly it was almost $100 for a 1 gallon jug)- not becaue they care about animals.

The only positive thing I have seen petco do for the saltwater fish since I started working there was to make mandarin gobies and powder blues and other difficult to keep fish special order only, requiring the permission of a district manager to order. I was personally lucky to work for a store full of very knowledgable people, and to have the oppurtunity to interest others in this great hobby. I can't tell you how many people I have referred to Reef Central, or sold Bob Fenner's book to before I even let them look at "nemo".

I encourage you all to write to petco corporate and suggest that they change their policy on medications, or investigate another wholesaler, or even to just discontinue the purchase of saltwater fish from this supplier. The only way they will change is if they think that their business is in jeapordy. Please- it takes two seconds to write the letter, and think of all the animal's lives we could save.

[taflaw]

Forget about complaining to the company. Most areas have laws against abuse/neglet of animals. And you can always contact the local media as well or write a letter to the editor of your local newspaper. I returned from my LPS today and saw lines of marine fish, including a powder brown tang, just wasting away because the skimmer was clogged and none of the employees did anything about it when I called them out. Unfortunately, for many people in the pet business, fish, corals and other animals are just considered products and not living creatures. Another way to let them know is to stop giving them business. I still think filing a complaint with a local agency/law enforcement is the best way to get them to act.



<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=5767100#post5767100 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Tom_Nev
In the area I live there are 3 Petco's (and only 1 real LFS which isn't that local and of dubious quality at best). Here's my problem, I've been in each of the Petco's several times over the last few months. EVERY time I've been in, in each store, the marine fish are INFESTED with parasites and diseases. Additionally, they commonly have fish dying or dead in the tanks.

Yesterday, I went in to one of them and spoke with the attendant. They just received a shipment of fish that day (earlier in the day). A number of the newly arrived fish were already infested. I'm talking about 1 powder blue tang, a half dozen bursa triggers, 3 scopas tangs, some tomato clowns, 2 ocellaris clowns and a dozen varied damsels (At LEAST). I asked the attendant (short form), "what is going on with the fish, every time I'm in here they fish are infested and dying". She says, "I know it's very sad. Corporate won't even let us treat them, but sometimes we try to anyway. We just got some new ones today and they were really stressed out, some already had ich". This store is the best of the three with regard to the condition of their marine fish.

I went into another today. Half the tanks empty (I thought whew!). Then I see a volitan lion bloated and dead in the corner of one tank with a pair of niger triggers lying next to him panting.

This is despicable. Anyone else see anything like this at Petco? I'll be writing and calling them to complain LOUDLY, as well as suggesting they either get it right, or get out of the marine business. I had given it a few months to see if it was just an aberration, buts it's not, it appears as if this is business as usual. I have seen at least 4 shipments of fish, in each of the three stores (12 total), each end with similar results (once in awhile a particularly hardy specimen makes it a month).

If anyone else has seen this, I hope you'd also write, call, whatever (more voices is likey to make more of an impression)

[Abysswater]

PETCO IS A GOOD PLACE TO GET PARASITES! And if you get a fish use it to feed the PARASITES! Petco sucks! IMO! And for the ones that make petco great, good for you, at least someone will do the job right. But after you quit and another person comes in, it will suck again!

[trigger111]

I complained to the pet co corporate office, 2 months later I got a response to my email. The response from the local store was simply "well we use a UV sterilizer, so we shouldn't have parasites." How stupid are these people?

[tsutherland]

Save your breath and time with them. I too called and complained to national people and got the BS oh we will deal with it. Since then nothing has changed, the fish all look like crap still. So IMO screw Petco, you will never see me in there buying livestock and I will also tell people what I think about the fish at Petco everytime I am ask.

[billsreef]

I'll bet they don't/didn't replace the UV bulbs often enough, or even have them sized and plumbed the right way to do the job ;)

[Timothy01]

Lol....Petco is a Joke... I worked thier part time for extra money for a while and finally just got fed up and quit. the problem doesn't lie within the store, it's there stupid policies. Petco has removed 90% of its remedies for all animals(they don't want you to treat in the store infurmery(sp) they want to pay a vet $100 to save a $5 animal. So basicly the fish are screwed condemed to die a slow death and be comited to the freezer forever after. Can't have a hosbitilzation tank(we infact had 2 till our managment got canned for not follwing company policy) There is very little information if any given to employees about the animals they are handeling. In fact up until managment was changed that store had some of the best and knolagble employess of any of the lps. Now no one has a clue whats going on. As for the tanks they are on a 6 tanks to 1 sump distrubution. Which basicly means as stated before one gets sick and the rest are soon to get it. Petco also sets what you can have in 90% of your tanks and just sends out what ever they feel you should have(mostly clowns and damsels) however if after all the anti petco you still insist oon shopping there special order your fish from them and find out when they do recieve their orders, that way you can check the fish and if it isnt in good health (may be stressed from shipping) just let the store keep it, but if it is in good health you dont have to worry about it getting what may be in thier tanks

[Grumpy Ole Salt]

Wow! And I thought it was just the store in Mentor Ohio. And yes, they are not allowed to treat the fish. I have to drive at least 30 miles for my critters. Well worth it to get animals that stand a chance. I think Petco hard goods prices are high. At least the few item I've checked. Me, I go to stores that have healthy critters. Why support a chain that sells things that die.

[Newreeflady]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=5789680#post5789680 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by steveoutlaw
Unfortunately Petco is a disgrace. They will put full size tangs in a 20g tank and stress the hell out of them. Then they act like it's your fault when you try to save them and they die. Unfortunately it's better to just let the fish die at Petco because if you buy them from Petco.......Petco is just going to keep ordering more and they will keep getting diseased. I've boycotted Petco for good.

Absolutely! Definitely just don't buy. It's sad, but it's just like stores that buy reef animals that rarely make it in aquaria. Are you going to think you're the one that can save it, you've got the best aquarium ever? Or, are you going to realize that if you buy the animal, not only will it probably die, but they will just order a new one when you walk out the door... so now, you've effectively killed two:(

So sad to leave beautiful creatures, especially ones you think you can save... but I don't support stores that don't take care of what they buy, and don't buy responsibly.

-A

[fishinchick]

I have a friend who once worked at a petco. He supplied the animals in the store right out of his own pocket. He wan not reimbursed for a lot of the things he bought and did to save the animals. There are very few Petcos like this unfortunately. It's nice to see that at least someone cares.

On the other end of the spectrum though ...

I was at a petco buying catfood - The only thing I ever purchase from there and then only out of desperation if I can't get to my regular store. I overheard some moron giving out some really really really bad advice to someone considering getting into the hobby. He walked away and I took that chance to approach the guy, tell him about some cool fish he might want and a caution about cycling a tank and how important it was. I told him about ReefCentral and the other boards out here and how so many of us are hanging out online and wouldnt mind helping him get going.
The Petco employee came busting into the conversation and said that listening to too many people online was bad and how he had exp. for five thousand years and he claimed he supposedly invented reefing and the internet (ok I'm being sarcastic but you get the idea).
I looked at the customer, smiled, handed him the paper he asked me to write the RC url on. I said "you have the tools. Next step you take is up to you" and thanked the employee for his openness to new ideas and thoughts and wished him and his fish the best of luck. I bought my food, told the manager at the door what an idiot his fish guy is and left.

And dude, if you made it here to reefcentral and read this, I'm glad you listened and I hope this place helped you understand why you didnt need to buy a tank or livestock from that idiot.

The ASPCA or animal control would say something if they had puppies, kittens and guinea pigs dropping from illnesses like that. I do not understand why fish (also a live animal just not so cuddly) are treated like second class citizens in the animal world. It's like they arent even really living animals.

[elvictre]

Just keep putting them on the list.

Petco Commack NY

[DecoyDave]

The Petco here in Vacaville, California is pretty bad too. They just re-did their SW section a few months ago with new tanks, made an island in the store for the SW section, and everything is still dying left and right. I go in there to buy my fish food because it is the only place within 30 miles of me that carries it. Anyway, a lot of the fish are sick. They usually have a few powder brown and powder blue tangs that are faded out and skinny as all can be. I have said something to the fish person (each person on each shift), and i get the "what do you mean there is something wrong?" reaction. Their knowledge isnt the best, and even a newb like me knows that... I wanted to work there when i started this hobby, but i couldnt imagine stressing myself because all of the fish are dying. Its like a morgue in there (except with fish).

[EricBrian]

People, stop going to Petco!

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6415369#post6415369

target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Tango05
...

Anywho, not to go off topic have any of you been to a Wal-Mart and seen the fish section?

Seriously, they house freshwater fish, and I don't think any fish should suffer the way they do. I mean there must have been 60+ Mollies of all sizes most prego in a small 15g. When they we were swimming, if you can call it that, I actually felt really bad for them becuase it seemed they could not swim anywhere without being on top of another fish.

Amber

Uhm, why would anybody go to Wal-Mart for anything let alone for livestock?

[Runner]

Actually, Walmart around here always has their fish tanks well maintained -- probably more due to the UV lamp in the tank racks than anything else. The guy in charge of the nearest one told me to come in on like the 10th day of the month and I'd be able to get a good price on a BB Puffer. They usually get a few "exotic" things like that in at that time. I've never actually bought there, though. I have gotten a few at Petsmart before, but I always treat them for parasites before they go in my tank. I rarely buy freshwater stuff, anyway -- that tank is established and the fish are getting big.