Auburn University Anemone Study!!

[Whitten]

Being a college student here at Auburn University has made availible a great deal of opportunites that might not have been possible otherwise.

While walking through our new Lab building I noticed a sign that was recruiting lab assistance for a research project being conducted on Anemone and Anemone Fish relationships. I decided to check it out, and as it turns out our university hired on a heck of a Marine Biologist who has spent countless years researching the symbiotic relationship between Anemones and their little buddies. Long story short I am now a part of the research project with some of Auburn's finest undergrad and graduate minds and will even be getting credit for it. I still know very little as to what we will be doing, but I have already talked with Dr.Chadwick of whom we will be assisting with the research and have seen her own personal lab.

This is the coolest thing ever, she has close to 20, 10 gallon tanks that will soon be housing individual bubble tip anemones as well as Amphprion bicintus. The research will involve determining what causes an anemone to accept a certain fish, and what if any types of mechanical or chemical cues are used.

I of coarse will keep you all updated and hopefully with some cool pictures.

The funny thing is that my Major here at Auburn has nothing to with Marine Biology and yet I am brought together with it because of my love for the hobby. My Major is Building and Construction Sciences and my goal is to one day become the foremost expert in building large scale aquariums and other biotropes of the like.

At any rate look for some cool info from Dr. Chadwicks lab (my instructor) and hopefully some answers to questions about both our tenticled and fined little buddies.

[Whitten]

Ok so here is the first thing going right now. I am getting lab trained some time soon so that I can begin some basic work.

My aim is to try and push for several 40 gallon breeders. I think that a set of 5-8 should be sufficient for what she is trying to accomplish. As of right now she needs help with equipment and I really want to set her up with the best that her grant can afford.

Our original plan was to setup the tanks to run on one big system, but after she had mentioned doing some chemical testing I decided that wouldn't be the best course of action. My thinking is that if we can do either 40 gallon breeders or maybe 20 gallon longs that the anemones will feel more at home. My two biggest issues to tackle right now are going to be pushing better filtration and better lighting. After talking with here about the setups she agreed that it was a great asset to have me as a part of the team because of my knowledge on equipment and husbandry of the animals in captivity.

As of right now she has bubble tip anemones, in several of the tanks with usually a pair of Bicintus which are very close in resemblance to Clarkiis. Since we haven't actually started doing anything yet I anticipate this to change quite dramaticly before the end of the semester.

I will keep you all updated on what happens with the research.

[Whitten]

Got some updates guys, so far here is what is going on. We were in need of a holding tank to keep the freshly shipped and stressed anemones...so I got to order stuff!!!

In our lab we have a fair ammount of pre drilled 20 gallon long tanks. This was great for me, as a way to show off my abilities so I quickly got to work comming up with some plans for a makeshift anemone nursery.

I called up Hellolights.com and ordered a 250 Watt Aquamedic Ocean Light with a 15,000K bulb to get things started.

I then called Premium Aquatics and talked with a stellar guy over there named Jay. He and I came up with a list of equipment and he helped us out in a huge way with price and shipping since we are a University.

So far the Equipment for the 20 Gallon L with the 20 gallon L Sump is as follows.

Mag Drive 5
SCWD
Two U Tube Returns
Pro Heat Titanium 150,000 Watt Heater
Coralife Super Skimmer 65 Gallon Capacity
Bulkheads, and the a few other plumbing parts.

Left to do are: build a small internal overflow box, get baffles cut for refugium, buy random plumbing parts, and get some plant hangers to hang the pendant.

My plan is to later add a Temp Controller, and an Auto Top off system withing a few weeks of operation.



The next stage will be building her a larer grow out system out of a 40 gallon Breeder, with a Aquamedic Pendant much like this
http://www.marinedepot.com/IMD/150/AQ1821.jpg

We want the two 250 Watt DE MH with the 2 39 watt T5 HO's.

Future plans for the one large system is actually looking like it might work if we can incorporate in some ball valves to seperated off individual tanks from the rest of the system. We hope to have each tank lit with either T5 HO fixtures over ever tank or 150 watt MH depending on what we can get a better deal on.

I hope to have some picutres up of the entire setup within the week so that you all can have a better idea of what we are doing here at Auburn, and also because I know how much you all love pictures.

Also if anyone here is interested or has some ability to donate to us it would be greatly appreicated. We do have limited funds, but I feel it important to get the best equipment that is sold to date.

I have contacted Aqua Medic as well as Oceanic for assistance in getting some help so hopefully we will get some possitive results from them. In the mean time Premium Aquatics has really taken care of us.

Thanks and keep on the look out for updates.

[Flighty]

Very interesting. We'll be badgering you for updates :)

Do you think the lighting might be overkill for BTAs ? I have the same fixture over a 2' deep tank and the BTA hid for months in the shade and only now comes out at the very bottom of the tank.

Another tip for btas would be to get small flowerpots or something similar with a hole in the bottom. Invert it with the anemone inside and it will foot on the inside of the pot and expand out of the hole. This isn't the prettiest solution for a display, but it will make moving them around test tanks a snap.

[Gary Majchrzak]

interesting thread! :)

[sarai826]

wow-- keep us updated!

[Whitten]

Originally posted by Flighty
Very interesting. We'll be badgering you for updates :)

Do you think the lighting might be overkill for BTAs ? I have the same fixture over a 2' deep tank and the BTA hid for months in the shade and only now comes out at the very bottom of the tank.

Another tip for btas would be to get small flowerpots or something similar with a hole in the bottom. Invert it with the anemone inside and it will foot on the inside of the pot and expand out of the hole. This isn't the prettiest solution for a display, but it will make moving them around test tanks a snap.

Already got ya covered with the flower pots. Right now that is exactly what we are using to make them feel comfortable.

In my experience the 250 watter has been perfect for the critters. All of my BTAs love the light and jump at the chance to be right up at the top. We will of coarse acclimate them all very slowly by lowering the light a bit each day until it is about 9" from the tank.

I will definately keep you all updated though. I am going to be assymbling the nursury tank this week and hopefully have some good pictures to share with you by Friday.

[Genin]

I will watch this one closely. I am curious at to what the results of your tests will be.

[phender]

I'm curious as to why she chose A. bicinctus.(They are sort of hard to come by in the TR variety) Is it because they is a little smaller than most other E. quadricolor symbionts?

[Gary Majchrzak]

Originally posted by phender
I'm curious as to why she chose A. bicinctus.(They are sort of hard to come by in the TR variety) Is it because they is a little smaller than most other E. quadricolor symbionts? I wondered the same thing, Phil. Originally posted by Whitten
The research will involve determining what causes an anemone to accept a certain fish, and what if any types of mechanical or chemical cues are used.

I find this particularly interesting, too.
We usually think of it the other way around:
what causes a fish to accept a certain anemone!

[phender]

Originally posted by Gary Majchrzak
....We usually think of it the other way around:
what causes a fish to accept a certain anemone!

I'm guessing not so much what attracts the clown, but why doesn't the clown trigger a stinging response in the nematocysts of the anemone. Maybe there is more of a medical tie in to what supresses or turns off the stinging response. (Hence more grant money :))

[Gary Majchrzak]

Ah yes... funding!
Phil- I sent you a PM.

[Whitten]

Hello everyone.

I am really excited about all of the interest generated about this study. I will try and answer all of your questions as best as I can since I will be speaking on the behalf of my proffessor until I can get her on here to better explain her findings.

In her published works she described a relationship between the fish and the anemone in a way that had never been told to me. In her research she found that an anemone, in this case E. quadricolor, has a greater ammount of Zooanthelle present when it hosts fish. In my skimming over her work I noted that she found that the production of amonia by the fish actually helped to accelerate the growth of not only the organism but also the zooanthelle.

Our basic goals are going to lie in determining just exactly what makes an anemone accept it's counter part, as well as why. She has also found that anemones that do not host usually are not as healthy nor do they grow to as large of sizes. She wants to also explore the possibility of chemical interaction as well as mechanical and even optical. She thinks there could be a great deal to learn from these creatures and maybe like you said possibly even gain some medical knowledge out of them.

Her reasoning behind the choice of Bicinctus was from what I understand due to her knowledge of the fish since she spent a number of years on the beach near the Red Sea doing studies of them. I feel as though I am trivializing just how much she knows by summing it up so I will ask her if it is ok if I post up her publishings on the web. If it is I think you all will enjoy the reading as it is very interesting. I a still reading back over it and finding out more I didn't know.

In the mean time here are some pictures of the begining stages of the lab to tide you over.

http://mytankpics.com/tanks/albums/userpics/10011/DSC04068.JPG
http://mytankpics.com/tanks/albums/userpics/10011/DSC04069.JPG
http://mytankpics.com/tanks/albums/userpics/10011/DSC04070.JPG
http://mytankpics.com/tanks/albums/userpics/10011/DSC04073.JPG
http://mytankpics.com/tanks/albums/userpics/10011/DSC04074.JPG
http://mytankpics.com/tanks/albums/userpics/10011/DSC04076.JPG

Now with reguards to equipment questions I can answer any of those you can come up with...I hope. I have a better knowledge of what equipment we have right now becuase that has been my main focus for the past week. Feel free to comment about anything, but also realize that we are in the infancy stages of this and things are about to change for the better very soon.

[Flighty]

cool. Any material like the project abstract available? This stuff really interests me. (even the dry, boring nerdy stuff :) )

[oama]

That must be the study greenbean36191 was talking about.
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=670118&highlight=bicintus

[aquadog]

This is an interesting study except that I do not think that there is any change in an anenome that would make it accept a particular clown, but I guess this could prove me wrong. More likely, it is the individual clownfish that undergoes a change most likely in how its slime coat changes in some way and no longer illicits a response from the anenomes nematocysts.

[Whitten]

Originally posted by oama
That must be the study greenbean36191 was talking about.
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=670118&highlight=bicintus

Green Bean/Michael is one of my Lab partners. He started a reef club down here in Auburn and that is how we met. Funny thing is that we had no idea that either one of us was going to be doing this lab study.

[FateX8]

cool that you guys are involved in studies
so...youre determining what causes an anemone to accept a certain fish
i thought it has something to do with the fishes mucilage that it excretes onto its scales
i also thought that the fish chose the anemone not the other way around
i will deffinately be looking for the results
thanks for letting us know
mike

[Whitten]

Originally posted by FateX8
cool that you guys are involved in studies
so...youre determining what causes an anemone to accept a certain fish
i thought it has something to do with the fishes mucilage that it excretes onto its scales
i also thought that the fish chose the anemone not the other way around
i will deffinately be looking for the results
thanks for letting us know
mike

See that is what I had always thought but her research really points to some different methods, and possibly even a deeper relationship between the pair. I think it would be extremely cool to find out that they communicated on a level previously not even realized.

I will definately let you guys know what we start to unfold.
This will be a long term project so you will all have to bookmark this and look for updates when ever I get some new info.

[aquadog]

Good Luck! Just keep in mind that clowns host in other inverts that would normally sting /harm other fish (euphyllia for example). This points more towards the individual clowns adapting to the host. Anything you could post that has been proven the other way would be very interesting.

[Nagel]

Originally posted by Whitten
Pro Heat Titanium 150,000 Watt Heater


I gotta ask this, are you COOKING them fish? LOL

Sounds like a very cool project.. I wish I had a more developed science department in my college. I would have jumped on something like this in a heartbeat!

And yeah, your instructor got lucky for sure... I think you may have alot of good info to offer her via your interactions here..

Definately keep this thread updated...

[Nagel]

Originally posted by aquadog
Good Luck! Just keep in mind that clowns host in other inverts that would normally sting /harm other fish (euphyllia for example). This points more towards the individual clowns adapting to the host. Anything you could post that has been proven the other way would be very interesting.

Very good point. I read that somewhere, whether it was wilkerson or moe, I do not recall, but there were three theories why clowns didnt get stung. Never did nail down the one reason though. Each reason had its merits. Now you are gonna make me go find it..

LOL

[Nagel]

Originally posted by aquadog
This is an interesting study except that I do not think that there is any change in an anenome that would make it accept a particular clown, but I guess this could prove me wrong. More likely, it is the individual clownfish that undergoes a change most likely in how its slime coat changes in some way and no longer illicits a response from the anenomes nematocysts.

I wondered about this myself, then I had (still have) a pair of ocellaris that regularly go between a corkscrew anemone and BTA's. And we're not talking days of acclimation, it could be every few minutes. For whatever reason, the anemones dont battle, and the clowns can really hunker down in either without an issue.

[aquadog]

Once the clowns adapt the ability to go into something and as long as it is available they always seem to be able to go back easily. It seems to be some kind of immunity(antigen/antibody) response. As inititially they can get stung and then soon they no longer get stung. It is almost as if they can block the firing of the nematocysts. I would definitely be interested if anyone had the definitive answer. I do not believe that it is out there yet. Lots of theories.

[Gary Majchrzak]

Not my thread, but I can share any experiences if need be.
I have Amphiprion polymnus that travel freely between a Stichodactyla haddoni and a Macrodactyla doreensis (both anemones are natural hosts of Saddleback Clowns) in my aquarium. The Saddlebacks could not enter a Heteractis magnifica in the same aquarium, even though they (obviously) wanted to.
I have seen plenty of instances where Anemonefishes form a bond with a non-natural host anemone (and/or coral).

[donfishy76]

Very interesting. I went to school for Marine Biology and they didnt even have any studies THIS cool! Of course I too would have jumped on this in a second! Way to go. Dont keep us waiting too long now for info!

[z_rivers]

IME i believe its the clown that changes not the anemone. mive had a pair of A. ocellaris for over 2 years now, and have had multiple anemones. ive gone through H. malu, H. crispa, H. magnifica, E. quadricolor, M. doreensis, and H. haddoni some ove which ive had more than half a dozen times. everytime i introduced the anemone into the tank, the clown would swim into the anemone in less than 4 hours.

ive never once had this pair reject an anemone, which are currently residing in an H. malu. this leads me to believe is up to the fish whether it wants to take up an anemone as its host or not. im not trying to prove you wrong, just shared what ive seen over the last few years.

maybe its the clownfish who feel they always need a host? im not sure but you study seems interesting and i wish you the best of luck.

[donfishy76]

Aaron, no offense, but doesn't it seem like you cant keep anemones just yet? Just going by what you said, but that is an awful lot of anemone life and money you have gone through, ...

[phender]

I think some of you guys are missing the point of the study.
The study is not about who accepts who, or which organism changes.
The anemone "accepts" or "adapts to" the clownfish by not stinging him. They want to find out what chemical(s) or mechanisim turns off the stinging cells of the anemone while still allowing them to fire their nematocysts at prey items.
At least that's what I'm thinkin'.

[z_rivers]

donfishy76- all the above anemone lived for a long time except the Mag, he only lasted about 2 months. i either sold or traded the anemones for different ones either because they got large or i got bored with them (like BTAs). ive kept different species at the same time (4 i think was the most ive ever kept at once that were different species). if all the anemones i listed above had died, i wouldnt be buying anymore anemones since that would be a waste of money =). thanks for the concern though.

[Gary Majchrzak]

phender- you have PM.

[donfishy76]

ok aaron, you are off my black list then, ... lol

let shear more about this experiment please!

[jman77]

Gary ,

I tried to PM you, but your box is full.

[aquadog]

Just remember what came first...The anenome or the clownfish...The clownfish adapted to be able to host in an anenome. Look to the clowns ability to change the composition of its mucous coating. Finding that mechanism or chemical change that allows this would be awesome. Again good luck and keep us posted.

[greenbean36191]

Wow, I had no clue this thread was here.

Keep in mind that we are only in the process of setting up the lab right now. Dr. Chadwick has only been at the university for less than a year so we are basically starting from scratch. We're still setting up tanks, moving things around, possibly renovating the lab room, and getting things established and stable. We will also be buying more livestock in the near future. Needless to say we are far from having any data. It will probably be late this semester if not next semester before we even get into the project itself. Even then, this is a long term project with many steps and the first step is just to measure the metabolic rates of anemones with and without clownfish.

Once we do have data, keep in mind that it will eventually published in journals, and it's generally not good form to preempt the journal.

In short, we can keep you informed about the progress of the lab and eventually the progress of the experiments, but in most cases we probably can't share results at least until after they are published.

[G_cuvier]

I have noted both Maroon Clowns, (Premnas biaculeatus) and Tomato Clowns (Ampiphrion frenatus), biting off the very tip of an anemone's tentacle shortly after the introduction of the anemone to the aquarium and prior to the fish entering the anemone for the first time. Since I have been a believer in the chemical makeup of the anemonefish's slime preventing the firing of the nematoblasts I have always assumed that this was the anemonefish's method of "immunizing" themselves against the anemone.

Might be worth looking into.....

[Whitten]

Originally posted by greenbean36191
Wow, I had no clue this thread was here.

Keep in mind that we are only in the process of setting up the lab right now. Dr. Chadwick has only been at the university for less than a year so we are basically starting from scratch. We're still setting up tanks, moving things around, possibly renovating the lab room, and getting things established and stable. We will also be buying more livestock in the near future. Needless to say we are far from having any data. It will probably be late this semester if not next semester before we even get into the project itself. Even then, this is a long term project with many steps and the first step is just to measure the metabolic rates of anemones with and without clownfish.

Once we do have data, keep in mind that it will eventually published in journals, and it's generally not good form to preempt the journal.

In short, we can keep you informed about the progress of the lab and eventually the progress of the experiments, but in most cases we probably can't share results at least until after they are published.

Hey Michael...I thought I told you about this thread? Anyway, great that you are here. I need someone else to help me with the questions. Thanks for poping in man.

[greenbean36191]

I figure it's time for another update. Nothing too exciting though. Last week we did our first test run of the metabolism test setup. Basically we are measuring metabolism as a function of ammonia production. We spent over four hours hiding from the fish while we took samples of their pee. I also got the joy of working with the Israeli version of Excel. That was quite a treat. If you think the American version of Office is a pain try it in Hebrew. :) Michael stopped by while we were taking a set of measurements and I think he has some pictures of us soooo hard at work. :lol: Anyway, as we expected, there are several bugs to work out of the sytem, so it will probably be the end of Nov. if not later before we take any real readings. It's good to finally get into the real lab work rather than just routine tank maintenance though.

Also, I hear that we got lots of new equipment in today, but I haven't seen it, so Michael will have to tell you about that.

[aquadog]

How do you take urine samples from fish?

[greenbean36191]

They aren't really "urine" samples. They're excretion samples, the difference being that a large amount is coming from the gills. You pretty much just take a small water sample and measure the ammonia in it. It's not quite like doing a hobbyist test though. There is a lot more work involved.

[Whitten]

To go along with his update I have some pictures to show you all of how things are progressing.
Here are some pictures from the test last Wednesday,
http://mytankpics.com/tanks/albums/userpics/10011/Excretion%20test.JPG
http://mytankpics.com/tanks/albums/userpics/10011/Modi%20in%20the%20lab.JPG
And then ofcoarse we had to do some kind of goof up shot so the one and only Green Bean makes his debut.
http://mytankpics.com/tanks/albums/userpics/10011/Gotcha.JPG

Here is the lab as of today, and just before we under go a big change in systems. I have been busy collaborating with everyone about what things like about the 20 gallon grow out tank as well as their dislikes, and in the mean time designing the layout for the lab. Our lab will be getting new counters, as well as a custom anemone propogation tank built by Me, Greenbean, and our Lab Manager Stuart, as well as a coral prop tank.

Anyway, here are the pics.
http://mytankpics.com/tanks/albums/userpics/10011/1.2.JPG
http://mytankpics.com/tanks/albums/userpics/10011/2.2.JPG
http://mytankpics.com/tanks/albums/userpics/10011/3.3.JPG
http://mytankpics.com/tanks/albums/userpics/10011/4.4.JPG

And a picture of what the little old coralife is pulling out of our tanks on a regular basis. I am still trying to dial it in to get really dark skimmate.
http://mytankpics.com/tanks/albums/userpics/10011/DSC04207.JPG

[Whitten]

Thought I would post about what things got done today in the lab as of 10/24/2005.

The UPS man showed up today....and it was like Christmas.
http://mytankpics.com/tanks/albums/userpics/10011/DSC04200.JPG
http://mytankpics.com/tanks/albums/userpics/10011/DSC04201.JPG

So far we recieved a 6' long x 8 39 Watt T5-HO fixture, 10 Turboflotor Skimmers, and are now waiting on our return pumps all from Mike at Aqua-Medic.
Here are some pics for you to check out...this thing is bright as all get out.
Off...
http://mytankpics.com/tanks/albums/userpics/10011/DSC04206.JPG
On...
http://mytankpics.com/tanks/albums/userpics/10011/DSC04204.JPG

Jay over at Premium Aquatics is helping us out with a few more odds and ends like heaters, SCWDS, Sand, and other basic needs.

Also The folks over at The Logical Reef in Florida said that they would be willing to give us some sponsorship which was most exciting. I am thinking that their help could prove to be some of, if not the best. We are very excited about their help and think the world of them for offering this to us.

Rollin', a local reefer here to Auburn came through in a big way for us Saturday by building us this internal overflow box which is working out great. I got it attatched today, and I will get pics of the tank after it settles down again.
http://mytankpics.com/tanks/albums/userpics/10011/11.11.JPG
http://mytankpics.com/tanks/albums/userpics/10011/12.12.JPG

[Whitten]

Lastly are some shots of the animals...after all this is why we are doing all of this.
This GBTA was placed in the grow-out tank(20 long) to help get it back to health. He is already looking 100 times better.
http://mytankpics.com/tanks/albums/userpics/10011/5.5.JPG
Other Specimines under VHOs
http://mytankpics.com/tanks/albums/userpics/10011/6.6.JPG
http://mytankpics.com/tanks/albums/userpics/10011/7.7.JPG
http://mytankpics.com/tanks/albums/userpics/10011/9.9.JPG
http://mytankpics.com/tanks/albums/userpics/10011/10.10.JPG

[Clarkii Clowns]

Gary , Phil, am i missing something with all the PM's ?

:)

[aquadog]

I get the idea. Thanks

[Whitten]

Did I miss something?

[Rollin]

Ha! I'm just scrolling the thread, not even reading, and there's my hand!

If those dimensions are good on the one box I'll see about getting the other ones squared away when I find some acrylic.

[Whitten]

Hi ya Chris, glad you stopped by. The box is looking great, and it is actually working better than I had anticipated.
As far as the dimensions we could make sure the next few tanks all are drilled in the same place and I will let you know.

Got some better pictures of your box as well.
http://mytankpics.com/tanks/albums/userpics/10011/DSC04223.JPG
http://mytankpics.com/tanks/albums/userpics/10011/DSC04221.JPG

Sorry about not having any pics of you building it that showed more than your hand, they all came out out of focus...I think I still had Macro on.

Got our next shippment in from Premium Aquatics...and I should say that 500 lbs + Hand Truck= shakey and unstable hand truck going down the ramp.
http://mytankpics.com/tanks/albums/userpics/10011/DSC04225.JPG
Got a bunch of sand and some dead rock which accounted for most of the weight, but we also got in a few other things like Won Pro-Heat II heaters and a chunk of SCWDS.
http://mytankpics.com/tanks/albums/userpics/10011/DSC04228.JPG
Another shot of the Lab, along with our Lab Manager Stuart doing a salinity check on the grow tank.
http://mytankpics.com/tanks/albums/userpics/10011/DSC04230.JPG

Got a whole lot accomplished today. Got our new T5 lights up and running and moved a few more anemones into the grow out tank. I will have pics of that by tommorw or so. We are moving forward and plan to have new counters built by next week some time, as well as about 4-5 new systems.

[speedracer02]

This is why I love being a student at Auburn, War Eagle.

[aujay]

Is that third ot last shot behind Rouse between it and Funchess???

[Whitten]

Originally posted by aujay
Is that third ot last shot behind Rouse between it and Funchess???
It most definately is.

[eclecticvibe]

Hi Michael. Jay from Premium Aquatics here. I just found your thread. Very interesting study! I'm glad that I have the opportunity to help you guys out. As to the question of whether the anemone changes for the clown, or the clown changes for the anemone, I think that the study will shed some light on the subject regardless of what it finds. Even if the study shows that the anemone doesn't change at all, at least there's scientific confirmation of that idea, rather than just speculation. Sometimes you can only prove a theory, by disproving other ideas.

[gkarshens]

Hi. Very interesting study. I will be curious as to the results. For some reason I don't get any of the pics.

[Whitten]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6259219#post6259219 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by eclecticvibe
Hi Michael. Jay from Premium Aquatics here. I just found your thread. Very interesting study! I'm glad that I have the opportunity to help you guys out. As to the question of whether the anemone changes for the clown, or the clown changes for the anemone, I think that the study will shed some light on the subject regardless of what it finds. Even if the study shows that the anemone doesn't change at all, at least there's scientific confirmation of that idea, rather than just speculation. Sometimes you can only prove a theory, by disproving other ideas.

Hey Jay, glad you found it. Sorry it has taken me so long to reply, I have been really busy with all the work in the Lab and School and just haven't had the time to keep up with it.

GKarshens, Sorry about the pics, hopefully we can get another web host to put the pictures up. We have webspace but need to get our website reorganized so that we can put up update pictures. As soon as that happens we will be back in business.

As for the Lab, the new countertops are built, and we are currently having custom tanks built for our larger needs. The tanks are being built by a company called Precision Clarity. These guys are top notch and very easy to work with.

Also on the way are eight 6 bulb T5 Tek Light fixtures for each of our tanks as well as two 48"x 250 watt +2 54 watt t5 fixures. The boys over at Premium Aquatics are filling that order as we speak and have been ever so patient with us our accounting department.

Stay tuned for some picture updates.

~Michael W

[greenbean36191]

Yeah, it's been a while since this thread has been updated, but a lot has been going on since the last update. Like Michael mentioned, the lab remodel is almost done and it looks really great. It's changed a lot since the begining of the year. Michael's really put a lot of hard work into it.

Modi and I ramped up the excretion experiments from once every other week to twice a week by the end of the semester and might even go to three times a week next semester. We're doing them for both the fish and the anemones. We're also taking samples within the tanks to see how the ammonia concentration correlates with proximity to the anemone and how that changes when fish are present.

I'll probably work on another small (since I'm only going to be around for one more semester) project next semester in addition to the other work. I'll probably work with what it seems like everyone is really interested in; who is really responsible for the "immunity" to the stings, the fish or the anemone. It probably won't be anything formal though. Just a series or short tests.

[seabisquit2]

In the mean time here are some pictures of the beginning stages of the lab to tide you over.


I'm sure no pum intended javascript:smilie(':D')

WAR EAGLE!!!!

Hey Whitten,
Congrats on the research opp. That is an awesome experiment to have the privilege of working on. I hope all is well on the plains...Next time we are in Auburn, (In-laws live there), we will have to visit this display. Is this setup at the Veterinary School?? I am as excited as you are to watch this thread and to learn more about the wonderful animals.

BTW, I work for Brasfield & Gorrie, General Contractor in Atlanta. I have been with them for 24 years and can toss in a heads up at recruiting time.:wave: I also had the privilege to work on the new Georgia Aquarium because...You guessed it, Brasfield & Gorrie was the general contractor on that project.

Keep on posting and "Go Tigers!!!"

Rick Parker

[new2u]

Sounds awesome, but I can't see any of the pics...

[simonmr]

little red x's

[hesstondc]

WDE People!

AG Grad 2001! Keep up the good work

[Whitten]

I would like to appologize for all of the missing pictures. I am working a bunch in the Lab right now and just haven't had the time to update as I like.

Anyway, to make good I do have some update shots for you all to take a look at until I get the rest up and going.
http://img24.imageshack.us/img24/6131/dsc047066nx.jpg
We are currently hanging light fixtures in the area where their used to be cabnets, and also getting 5 new systems up and running. It is my intention to have this thread fully functioning and back up to speed with all new updates to corresspond with the rapid changes we are under going.
http://img502.imageshack.us/img502/1689/dsc046965xx.jpg
http://img502.imageshack.us/img502/2461/dsc046974hh.jpg
http://img502.imageshack.us/img502/8756/dsc046980us.jpg
http://img502.imageshack.us/img502/3839/dsc047057vd.jpg

Old defunct tanks being phased out along with a bunch of new equipment.

T5 Tek Lights
http://img502.imageshack.us/img502/2720/dsc047047np.jpg

[seabisquit2]

WOW!!! This is very exciting to watch this unfold. I know that you all are equally excited to be a part of this. Keep the shots coming and good luck with it all.

WDE,
Rick

[xtrstangx]

Looks really sweet.

[Whitten]

Well it seems as though I cannot go back and update the pics that were up so I will just have to recap the pics that were up.

These were from when I first started on the project back in October.
http://img95.imageshack.us/img95/112/dsc040696fa.jpg
http://img82.imageshack.us/img82/1197/dsc040740ek.jpg
http://img82.imageshack.us/img82/4973/28ss.jpg
http://img82.imageshack.us/img82/9540/dsc041653lr.jpg
http://img82.imageshack.us/img82/8716/dsc040688cz.jpg

[Whitten]

http://img82.imageshack.us/img82/9383/dsc041587mm.jpg
http://img67.imageshack.us/img67/7695/dsc041969qn.jpg
http://img82.imageshack.us/img82/1481/dsc042306hs.jpg
http://img82.imageshack.us/img82/1589/dsc042399ws.jpg
http://img82.imageshack.us/img82/4807/95jg.jpg

[Whitten]

November,
new tank construction begins. And Counter tops are introduced to the mix.

The Lab really starts to become several things....
A mess
a whole lot of work
and a whole lot of fun.
http://img67.imageshack.us/img67/280/dsc043387xs.jpg
http://img65.imageshack.us/img65/527/dsc044016pd.jpg
You would never believe how much though went into even little things like these counter tops. I drew the idea up in october, but things didn't get OK'd until we had mulled over the drawings and measured it out to the inch. By the way this isn't me in the picture this is one of the facilites guys here.
http://img65.imageshack.us/img65/1581/dsc044105me.jpg
Here you can see the areas where our 5'x 3' custom tank built by Precision Clarity as well as our custom corner tank is going to go.
http://img65.imageshack.us/img65/3217/dsc044228at.jpg

Which then brings us to our current phase of disaster that is slowly turning into more of a controlled explosion rather than absolute havoc.

I look forward to getting these individual tanks put together and having them up and going so that I can get to work on the custom tanks when they come in.

[allen00se]

Well I have to say that this seems like a really cool project, it must be nice to spend someone else's money! Keep the updates coming, maybe I missed it but what rate of turnover are you trying for in your tanks.

[andyjd]

looked good when I checked it out on Sunday :D

[PacificBlueReef]

You lucky dog for the oppurtunity of this magnitude! Any updates to share with the Reef Central community

[Khai]

I've never even heard of Auburn University...weird.

[True Percula]

very nice i wish my school had that...Do you get any anemones to keep?

[Poorcollegereef]

wow, I wish my school had something like that... about two months ago I was thinking about applying to Auburn for grad school (Urban and Regional Planning...aka reefkeeping for humans) and now I wish I did. Very cool study, and your lab looks like the living room in my apt... hahaha. Goodluck with your study

[Whitten]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6627349#post6627349 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Khai
I've never even heard of Auburn University...weird.

Hmmm....that is weird, we are a fairly large SEC school. But then again I guess if you don't really follow football then you might not have heard of us.

[Whitten]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6626967#post6626967 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by PacificBlueReef
You lucky dog for the oppurtunity of this magnitude! Any updates to share with the Reef Central community

As of right now there really isn't a whole lot. We are currently getting 5 more tanks up and going and that is all kinda boring as far as putting them together goes...then again I have setup about 8 so far so I guess I am just getting bored of the individual systems.

I hope to have a couple more going by this week and maybe even have the lab cleaned up enough to be able to make sense of where things are and what is going on.

vi3tb0i: No we don't really get to take anything home. And honestly that is ok by me since we are going to have such a nice system after we are all done with it. My goal is to make the best Anemone Specific tank that there has ever been....kind of a tall order but who knows. We are going to try some different filtering methods and see if we can't develop something alittle original and maybe in the process pioneer something...or just rediscover something that someone has already done.


Poorcollegereef: I belive that the Community Planning College is also under the same umbrella as the College that I am in.

I am a Building Science Major so I full under the College of Architecture Design and Construction.

[Whitten]

Working hard...should have a little more to show you by the end of this week.

[travisurfer]

are you running undergravel filters?

[Whitten]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6697011#post6697011 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by travisurfer
are you running undergravel filters?

Lord no...not any more we aren't. Those things did nothing but make the tank into a large cyano mess.

[Whitten]

Updates for the first week of Febuary.

Stuart our Lab Manager worked his butt off this week and cleaned up my mess. We had been trying to set up so many tanks at once that the lab became a battle field and things were getting lost.

So here are some updates as of last week.http://img105.imageshack.us/img105/7684/dsc047363bp.jpg
http://img338.imageshack.us/img338/3945/dsc047429fb.jpg
And now for some of the kids...err fish.
http://img105.imageshack.us/img105/6883/dsc047376ns.jpg
The next tank is our originall 20 gallon long that I started and is now housing our 11 BTA's straight from Charles Delbeek at the Waikiki Aquarium. These were some very interestingly marked animals that I will get closer pics of later. All were clones of an orginal wild caught specimin that was pulled from palau in 1985.
http://img447.imageshack.us/img447/6599/dsc047385zm.jpg
Another tank
http://img105.imageshack.us/img105/6045/dsc047408ay.jpg

Well that is it for now, but I should have more to show you soon when our big systems come in.

[donfishy76]

how big are your "big systems"?

[seabisquit2]

Just a giggle jiggle here, but isn't this AUBURN UNIVERSITY and not a house trailer set up to look like a fish store¿¿¿¿¿¿ There needs to be some organization amongst this group. Don't get me wrong!!! I love you guy's, but there has to be some sort of rythum to the madness, so to speak. This is a very important role you all take in the study of this relationship that will carry into the next generation. It should not be taken lightly. I'm sure that this is exciting for everyone involved, don't lose sight of the fact that this could turn into an international event ( should anything evolve here thru your findings). Keep up the good work and make those who have dedicated their time and equipment, proud of the fact that they have donated to a worthy cause.

WDE!!!!
Rick

[Whitten]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6733732#post6733732 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by seabisquit2
Just a giggle jiggle here, but isn't this AUBURN UNIVERSITY and not a house trailer set up to look like a fish store¿¿¿¿¿¿ There needs to be some organization amongst this group. Don't get me wrong!!! I love you guy's, but there has to be some sort of rythum to the madness, so to speak. This is a very important role you all take in the study of this relationship that will carry into the next generation. It should not be taken lightly. I'm sure that this is exciting for everyone involved, don't lose sight of the fact that this could turn into an international event ( should anything evolve here thru your findings). Keep up the good work and make those who have dedicated their time and equipment, proud of the fact that they have donated to a worthy cause.

WDE!!!!
Rick

Oh I agree whole heartedly, unfortunately there just isn't much to report at this time. Setting up these aquariums is happening at a steady rate and things are starting to fall into place, but the actual reseach will not begin until the lab is complete that is why there hasn't been much to report with reguards to our findings.

Things are rough and edgy and will be until we get all the systems setup properly and to Dr. Chadwick's needs, and until they get cycled and running with perfect water quality.

As for the people involved we have been dealing with some very wonderful and helpful companies as well as indiviuals. I will doing a list of everyone who we worked with and who supplied us even for small things after the full completion of the project and when the research starts to take off.


As for the question of the large tank, I calculated it out to be around 120 or so gallons. It is to be 5' long 3' deep and 12" high. This will serve as our anemone prop table and will have several deviders that will removable to make for some options as to how the tank can be sectioned off. The next big tank will be a corner tank of which I can't directly recall all the dimensions. It should be in the neighborhood of 75 -100 gallons and will be used for coral propogation and research.

Both of these tanks are being built by a stellar guy named Mike Coutts and his company Precision Clarity. They have been really working with us through all of our ups and downs and we look forward to taking delivery of some of their fine work.

Hang with us as we grow and I promise that some of the guys that frequent the lab as well as I will keep up updated as much as possible.

These two large systems will be linked together via large sump system that I am to date still a little unsure as to how it will be setup. I will know

[Khai]

It takes a long goodly time to setup any decent experiment. Nothing in science really goes fast at all, especially getting the funding...In my experience at least.

[Rollin]

Hey Mike let me know when you need the boxes. I have them all cut out they just need to be glued together.

Plus you can come by and see the mighty-ninety :)

[Whitten]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6737047#post6737047 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Khai
It takes a long goodly time to setup any decent experiment. Nothing in science really goes fast at all, especially getting the funding...In my experience at least.

You are correct sir, I feel the same way. For me completing the project is a my great reward, so I push as much as I can aside from school to get it done. Thankfully Stuart and Modi have been really helping out a whole lot. They have been putting systems together in my absence when I am doing school work and they have been doing a heck of a job.

[Whitten]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6737930#post6737930 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Rollin
Hey Mike let me know when you need the boxes. I have them all cut out they just need to be glued together.

Plus you can come by and see the mighty-ninety :)

Sounds great Chris, I have a test on Thursday in Physics 2 that I am buring myself in until I feel comfortable. I should be able to come by anytime after that. We will be so glad to have those boxes . Thanks doing this for us.


Ladies and Gentlemen, our Custom Internal Overflow Box maker. He does some amazing work and all of it from his garage. I will post some more picture of them comming together like I had last time.

[travisurfer]

are you using some fake nems too?

[donfishy76]

whitten, I have a RBTA and it has not allowed any ocellaris clowns into it. I have tried about 5-6 different clowns, always swapping them out for another with hopes it will go into the anemone; but after reading through things onthis thread, it is the anemone that has to accept the clown, is that correct?

What if I tried like a tomato or cinnamin clown? Any thoughts?

[IslandCrow]

It doesn't seem like the anemone has too much say in the matter. I don't think I've ever heard that it's the anemone that accepts the clown. What I have heard from many people, though is that sometimes it takes their clowns weeks, even months before the clown decides to host the anemone.

[Rollin]

I've read that clarkii clowns will bed down with almost anything although I really don't have any experience with it.

[Whitten]

Our clowns which are very close to Clarkii go directly into the anemone with out any time in between the anemone being introduced to the tank. Often they get in them as soon as the are in the water and sometimes when the anemones are in our hands.

Alot of it has to do with whether the fish was captive raised or wild caught. The next factor is if they were introduced to an anemone early on or if they were just put into holding tanks to begin with. I have found that with False Percs it takes alot of time to get them to host. It took mine well over a month to do so and that was in a small tank. With other breeds it takes litterally seconds. My roomate has a goldstripped maroon that litterally went into a forign anemone within an hour of it being introduced.

[travisurfer]

do they host the fake anemone?

[donfishy76]

well i was just curious because I have had this RBTA for well over 18 months now and no clowns have taken to it. I have kept the same clowns in the tank with the anemone for like 6 months and no show of ever even trying it out.

[huff3294]

hey i havent been by to see it in a while i was wondering (whitten) if you could give us a small update on how everything is progressing?

oh and how is your tank doing as well, you just havent been on lately in the alabama reefers forum?

[Whitten]

Yeah I have been really busy with School, Job interveiws, and working on the lab.

We are finalizing the details on the larger systems now, hanging the rack for the lights over the center of the countertops, and also getting our coral tank ready and rearing.

I will try and get a picture for ya'll by tommorow so you can see some progress.

[eclecticvibe]

How's the study coming? I was working on getting your tanks ordered, and thought I'd stop in to check on any progress.

[Whitten]

Hey everyone, it has been quite some time without an update.

Some things have changed and some haven't...I am still at Auburn and about to finish up with my Major. I have asperations to go on and build power plants which is nothing but what we in the business of construction call MEP(mechanical, electrical, and plumbing).

Some of the other players in the project have since graduated and gone on to do great things and hopefully they will chime in if they get an e-mail from this thread being resurected.

So lets get to some info about the Lab.
I stopped in and checked on Dr. Chadwick a little while ago and got some great news, all of the systems have been a great success. Specimin health and has been high and growth has been what she described as "phenominal" for tank rasied Bicinctus. Nutrient levels have stayed low reguardless of the fairly infrequent water changes, and the over all lab has been a great tool for their research.

I promise I will go and get some update pictures this week. I need to stop back in and check on when and if she intends to re set up her coral tanks, and in the mean time I will get more particualars like research findings, and also which pairs have successfully spawned...yes, many pairs are spawning.

At any rate everytime I see the good Dr. she is in high spirits about our work for her research and has been extremely happy with the outcome and health of her Animals many of which are 3+ years old.

Stay Tuned...I will have pictures of the finished product and changes soon.

[greenbean36191]

I'm still around too.

Some other big news from the lab:

Several of the fish are spawning regularly, and one of the students last semester was in charge of trying to raise the young, but didn't have any success. I imagine eventually someone else will take over where she left off.

The first master's student working on the project just finished his thesis last semester and it's in preparation now, so hopefully sometime soon it should be available to read.

Also, probably the biggest news is that this summer a group of students will get the chance to go to Jordan and work with the animals in the wild to supplement the work being done in the lab.

[Timanator]

Cool thread guys, thanks for all the hard work and updates.

:)