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vthondaboi
10/05/2005, 05:20 PM
Can this basically turn/on off TWO heaters and a fan depending on temperature?

Also can it turn on/off three different lights at three different times each day.

http://www.marinedepot.com/md_viewItem.asp?idproduct=NS1161

The desciprtion mentions:
Up to 3 Direct Connect 4s (DC4) or Direct Connect 4 Heavy Dutys (DC4HD) can be used with the AquaController Jr if a hardwired control solution is desired. The DC4s connect directly to the AquaController through a standard 4 conductor telephone cable. With 3 DC4HD connected 12 different devices can be controlled independently, with a maximum total power dissappation of approximately 3 * 120 * 15 = 5400 Amps.

Is the DC8 that comes with the unit fine? Can I connect more than one DC8 to the unit or do I have to use multiple DC4s or DC4HDs?

Carlos
10/05/2005, 06:16 PM
Yup, the controller can do that and more.

Carlos

Carlos
10/05/2005, 06:18 PM
The DC8 can be daisy chained so yes, you can connect multiple units. Do research your limit. I know the ACII can control up to 32 outlets, but not sure if the ACJR can do the same.

Carlos

jnarowe
10/06/2005, 07:06 AM
Watch out on the maximum amps per plug. I found ouot from Neptune that because of the high load of my lamps, I HAVE to use the DC4 HD which means I need 3 of them!--J

crash519
10/06/2005, 08:16 AM
The AC Jr. will only control 12 outlets.

clp
10/06/2005, 10:54 AM
The current limits on number of independently controlled items is:

ACJr - 12
AC2 - 20
ACPRO - 20
AC3PRO - 30 (soon to be dramatically increased).

Curt

jnarowe
10/06/2005, 11:59 AM
can you imagine controlling 30+ units??? I need the Pro III mostly for it's connectivity, but I do want to control more than 1 tank as well.--J

Sparkss
10/06/2005, 12:35 PM
With an AC Jr and an existing DC8, can you add another DC8 (and only control the first 4 plugs, of course) or do you have to purchase a DC4 ?

I ask because I eventually plan to upgrade the controller to an II Pro (emphasis on eventually) and want to position the rest of my equiptment/power strips/etc.

plaz
10/06/2005, 02:01 PM
Tom, I have been thinking about the same (possibly upgrading later): PA told me yesterday that you can use 2 DC8s with the Jr (only using 4 of the outlets on one of the 8s... or 6 on each). Unfortunately for me, I still need the DC4HD because of the chiller.

As far as the first question: "Can this basically turn/on off TWO heaters and a fan depending on temperature?" Couldn't you just add a normal outlet strip (Home Depot) to the ONE outlet that is controlled so that you could control the TWO heaters (since they would be controlled with the exact same configuration)? Given of course that the total number of Amps for that controlled outlet still did not exceed 6.

jnarowe
10/06/2005, 02:17 PM
aaahhhh...and the spaghetti begins!:D

Sparkss
10/06/2005, 06:56 PM
Originally posted by plaz
Tom, I have been thinking about the same (possibly upgrading later): PA told me yesterday that you can use 2 DC8s with the Jr (only using 4 of the outlets on one of the 8s... or 6 on each). Unfortunately for me, I still need the DC4HD because of the chiller.

As far as the first question: "Can this basically turn/on off TWO heaters and a fan depending on temperature?" Couldn't you just add a normal outlet strip (Home Depot) to the ONE outlet that is controlled so that you could control the TWO heaters (since they would be controlled with the exact same configuration)? Given of course that the total number of Amps for that controlled outlet still did not exceed 6.


Good gravy, what size chiller do you run ?!?! :eek1:

:)

As for 2 heaters, I had something a little different in mind myself, and I know it will work. I plan to have my temperature set up to control 2 heaters, fans and a chiller... if the temp drops to, say, 78.5, heater one would come on, if it still drops to 78, then heater 2 would (for those extra cold, but rare, days). And again on the high side, at a set temp the fans would kick on and a little higher the chiller would.

About a power strip from Home Depot to be used to power more than 1 heater.. at 6 amps that would come out to just over 600 - 660 watts of heater total. Which should be enough for most people :)

kbecker
10/06/2005, 09:33 PM
Originally posted by Sparkss
I ask because I eventually plan to upgrade the controller to an II Pro (emphasis on eventually) and want to position the rest of my equiptment/power strips/etc.

I would suggest that if you intend to upgrade to the II pro, then skip the Jr and go directly to the II pro. It will be a lot cheaper in the long run. I am saying this from personal experiance. I was very hesitant in purchasing the AC3pro over an AC2Pro, but I am very glad I went with the AC3pro. You would keep regretting the purchase and wished you had bought what you really wanted the first time.

Sparkss
10/06/2005, 09:38 PM
Actually I meant the III Pro... I typoed and left a I off.

The Jr combo with the DC8 is barely $100 more than a DC8 by itself (less if you don't get backlit). But it will allow me to get my DC strips and programming set up for when I have the money to move into a III Pro. It will be long enough in the future that the $100 will be justifyable and I will more than get my monies worth out of the Jr. :)

vthondaboi
10/06/2005, 11:42 PM
I wonder if the DC8 can handle a plug that has 2 175W MH on a magnetic ballast?

It's an old Hamilton fixture BTW.

I'd love to get an AC 3 Pro for it's connectivity. But I don't use PH and ORP stuff. Not sure what ORP is anyways. =P

Now if there was a cheap way to monitor calcium and alkalinity then let me know as that'd be the bomb for an SPS tank.

Sparkss
10/07/2005, 02:10 AM
define "cheap" ... Thre is the American Marine Pinpoint Calcium monitor for around $300 and I thought I read about an ALK meter also, or one of these controllers that also handles ALK (hardness)

As for your two lights... check the ballast and see what the amp rating is on them (should be a sticker somewhere with that info), then check the specs on the DC8 and DC4HD for per outlet capacity :)

jnarowe
10/07/2005, 12:10 PM
The III Pro doesn't monitor calcium?

I hear you about the ORP, but essentially it is a function of dissolved oxygen I believe. Supposedly it will help clarify the water and makes the skimmer working more efficiently. I see them on higher end reef systems and I think that's because of the SPS populations.

Anyone with more input?--J

Sparkss
10/07/2005, 02:06 PM
ACIII Pro

Monitor pH, ORP, Temperature, Conductivity and Dissolved Oxygen
The base unit includes software which is capable of monitoring pH, ORP, temperature, conductivity and dissolved oxygen. The monitored data is continuously displayed on the large LCD display and also logged into the internal RAM for later retrieval. All probes support digital calibration.

Control pH, ORP, Temperature, Conductivity and Dissolved Oxygen
The AquaController III Pro also contains the functionality to control the pH, ORP, temperature, conductivity and dissolved oxygen in your tank. The standard control functions for the monitored parameters listed above are possible.


Nada on the calcium. And bear in mind that the Dissolved Oxygen probe runs around $500, give or take.

ORP is more an indicator of how your take is doing, but every tank is different (as to what the "best" ORP reading is).

I got this posting about general ORP levels from another thread :


Very little will be alive : below 100 millivolt
Very Bad : below 140 millivolt
Bad : 140 to 180 millivolt
Poor : 180 to 200 millivolt
Too Low : 200 to 220 millivolt
New salt water : 220 to 240 millivolt
Low : 220 to 270 millivolt
Medium : 270 to 310 millivolt
Good : 310 to 340 millivolt
Better : 340 to 360 millivolt
Best : 360 to 390 millivolt
High : 390 to 450 millivolt
Too high : over 450 millivolt
Dangerous : over 525 millivolt
Very dangerous : over 575 millivolt

Hope it helps :)

jnarowe
10/07/2005, 02:15 PM
I guess I am a bit confused on this. I see Ozone generators that cost quite a bit less than the probe cost you mention and the instructions say to configure it to the ORP setpoint you want. Maybe they don't measure ORP? Are these 2 different things that I am mixing together?--J

Sparkss
10/07/2005, 02:23 PM
ORP measures redox, dissolved oxygen is a different reading. To be honest, I am not sure of the main difference, but I do know that they are different,

Redox - reduction + oxidation : of or relating to oxidation-reduction

jnarowe
10/07/2005, 02:36 PM
thanks for that double talk:fun5: ...I have no idea what you just wrote, although I did find it amusing. My stroke has left me a bit impaired so I have to laugh when things go over my head. --J

Sparkss
10/07/2005, 03:00 PM
Hehhe... most of it is over my head also... I would check out the reef chemistry forum for the differences, since that is where I hear ORP being talked about the most. I really wish I could provide a more informed answer. All I know is that they are different measurements and the probes are vastly different in pricing.

NS5131 Standard Grade ORP Probe $49.00

NS5171 Oxyguard Dissolved Oxygen Probe w/ 10ft Cable - for Pro version use only $419.00

leeweber85
10/10/2005, 01:10 AM
Originally posted by vthondaboi
I wonder if the DC8 can handle a plug that has 2 175W MH on a magnetic ballast?

It's an old Hamilton fixture BTW.

I'd love to get an AC 3 Pro for it's connectivity. But I don't use PH and ORP stuff. Not sure what ORP is anyways. =P

Now if there was a cheap way to monitor calcium and alkalinity then let me know as that'd be the bomb for an SPS tank.


I have mine running with 2 175w magnetic ballast on 1 plug

Sparkss
10/10/2005, 01:26 AM
2 X 175 W = 3.2 AMPs, now, since most magnetic ballasts run about 20% over their output wattage we are at approximately 3.8 AMPs, which is well under the 6 AMP capacity :)

(a 250W MH runs, on avg, about 300W power draw).

plaz
10/10/2005, 07:58 AM
Do you need to add a percentage to electronic mogul and electronic HQI ballasts for start-up etc.?
Thanks!

Sparkss
10/10/2005, 01:07 PM
most outlets are rated for inrush current and constant/running current. That inrush is the start up, etc. Just about all circuit breaker have a current inrush/spike trip delay, in other words they will handle X% more current than they are rated for, for a short, specific, period of time before they trip. Wiring/wire insulation is also rated similarly.

I believe that I read that the icecap ballasts had a heavy inrush current and that the DC4 (non-HD) was not applicable for use with them, but the DC8 states that it is fine for ice caps and so does the DC4HD. I am not sure if they differentiated between the magnetic and electronic ballasts.

leeweber85 states that he is running 2 176's on one plug, but he failed to mention what DC unit he was using. Hopefully he will chime back in with that tidbit :)

As for calculating the inrush at startup, I am not completely sure, but I would suspect that all ballasts are different, but similar enough that they could be generalized. The biggest question is can the contactors in the DC that you have handle the load. If your DC matches leeweber85's, then I would say most likely yes. Of course that also begs the question as to how long he has been running in that configuration, as it could deteriorate things over time. That is another bit of information that hopefully he can supply. :)

Electronic ballasts in general run alot more efficiently than magnetic ballasts, but I am not 100% sure about the inrush on them comapred to their magentic counterparts. I had read that in some instances electronic ballasts actualy used less wattage than their light output, IE: a 250 W electronic ballasts only consumes approximately 225 W of electricity (it could have actually been less, and I don't remember the exact thread). That was posted in a thread of people testing/plyaing with the KilloWatt wattage meter. They were testing it on various motors, lights and other tank equiptment. The restuls for the different manufactures and equiptment was "enlightening" to say the least.. especially comparing their stated/advertised power consumption compared to actual.. most actual consumption was lower.. a few notables were higher.:mad2: But I did not recall seeing anywhere where they tested the inrush current for any motors or ballasts.. sorry.

jnarowe
10/10/2005, 01:22 PM
My ballasts burn 9.2 amps so it looks like DC4HD for sure.

Regarding equipment using less wattage than their stated specs: That doesn't sound good for lamps. If the lamp is 400W and the ballast is running at 380W, you would not be getting the light output you paid for right?--J

Sparkss
10/10/2005, 05:26 PM
well, the light output is not necessarily tied to power consumption. Think about the PCs that put out 85 watts of equivalent light but only consume 19 watts of power. It all has to do with how efficitnet their transformer and the method that the light is produced by (IE: if it is by exciting gas, or buring a filament and what types of gas and/or filiment is used). :)

jnarowe
10/10/2005, 05:38 PM
True. I am only dealing with halides so that was my POV in replying.--J

Sparkss
10/10/2005, 05:56 PM
Well, me too, mainly (except for PC actinic supplementation). But even MH's have filaments and gas that needs to be excited to produce light, although I admittedly don't know the exact mecahism that MH's use to produce the light in the wavelength that they do. :)

clp
10/10/2005, 06:48 PM
I recommend that you take a look at Sanjay's reef lighting website http://www.reeflightinginfo.arvixe.com/index.htm
to get actual power consumption numbers on various ballast/bulb combinations. In general must electronic ballast consume less power, but they always output less light (look at efficiency).

Curt

Sparkss
10/10/2005, 10:49 PM
Curt,

Thanks.. I should have leaned towards Sanjay, since he is the reef lighting guru :). Thanks for pointing us in the right direction.