White lesions / bumps on zoanthids. Discussion on treatment

[bkiba]

Ok I've been watching this patch get worse for about 3 days now so I dipped these. I got scared when these things didn't fall off so I just left them in tank water and some HP overnight. Needless to say almost everything is dead but these white spots are still attached. I saved a small piece of this (about 10 polyps) that seemed unaffected.

These white lesions are appearing all over these zoos. They look too big for nudi eggs and don't have any defined shape really. When I pry them off it is almost like the are part of the polyp. They kind of collapse into goo when removed, so I'm not sure if they are attached or inside the zoo. Maybe I'm just freaking out.

http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/500/33736zoo_lesions-med.JPG

This hasn't really spread from what I can see but my zoos have been behaving weird lately. I did notice this pack getting more and more white spots. Maybe this is some kind of bacterial or viral infection???

[bkiba]

I need someone's help. No one has seen anything like this before?

[TheMcs]

I went through that a couple weeks ago. I used the Lugol's dip, but the usual few minutes doesn't do anything to the white spots.

I made the mistake of dipping my zoas for 2-3 hours (long enough to kill the white spots). Well, that also killed most of my zoas. From about 40 different morphs, I have 5 left.

Before I dipped, I tried cutting off only the affected polyps, but that did nothing.

All I can recommend is to do multiple 15 minute dips, with several hours in between. That's just speculation, I didn't get a chance to try that.

From what little info I could find, the white spots are a bacterial or parasitic infection. I can come in on anything. I learned my lesson to QT everything!

Good luck, those white spots destroyed our zoa collection.

[bkiba]

Ok thanks MCS. So I'm not over reacting. Luckily I haven't seen too much of a spread to more than one or two other polyps. I'll do a thorough inspection tonight.

[bkiba]

man I'm screwed. This crap is on almost each one of my colonies of zoos. MCS did the ones that survived just have nothing on them to begin with? Any other recommendations??

Anyone? Please help!

[bkiba]

Ok I looked at one of the removed zoo pox under the microscope. Mine only gets up to 400X but I can see lots of little spots that look like bacterial colonies. My GF (microbiologist) agrees. I'm going to setup a small setup and just keep dipping these guys outside of my main tank. Although this is about 90% of the zoos I have..... good thing I have ACL surgery tomorrow - plenty of time at home. -sigh-

any further comments or suggestions are appreciated...

[tekknoschtev]

The only thing I can think about that partciular colony is that dipping overnight was a mistake. I've had some zoas with those spots, and what I do is frag them, leave the healthy ones in the system (in the fuge, which has decent lighting) and then the infected ones go into a QT/Frag tank. I've had some success after fragging with the smaller frags being able to recover in the QT/Frag tank.

[bkiba]

Well those were really bad. There were only about 2 or 3 polyps in there without the affliction. I was just trying to see what is going to work (obviously not that). Right now I've set up a QT rubbermaid tub, added a little iodine and tank water. About 90% of my zoos aer in there.... I'm gonna go through them a little more and pick off the white spots - but for now hopefully what is remaining will be ok, or I can catch it before it spreads all aroudn again. Thanks for the help.

[CoralNutz]

Hope someone figures out what this is and a solution to it. Looks pretty viscious...

One thing I ALWAYS do is make sure that I have at least two other people locally that I GIVE frags to when I get new zoas. That way if I ever lose a colony, or all my zoas, I will be able to get them back.

Good luck with this, hopefully it won't wipe out everything.

[fvandijk]

I had a similar problem that a few weeks ago right after I introduced a new frag. It was definitely contagious and affected many of the frags/colonies I had in my quarantine aquarium (I had actually moved several from my main aquarium to this holding aquarium in preparation for a move to my new nano). I tried several things (freshwater dips, Lugol's, isolation, increased flow, etc.). See the following pic in my gallery: http://reefcentral.com/gallery/showgallery.php?ppuser=77035&cat=500&thumb=1

The one thing that did seem to work was Tetracycline at approx 10 mg/L (take a 250 mg tab dissolve into 500 mL of freshly madeup (salt) water, pour approx. 80-100 cc into 1 gal of freshly madeup (salt) water). I dipped these for 30 minutes, followed by a 3-5 minute dip in FW with Lugol's during which time I plucked off all of the obviously diseases polyps with a pair of tweezers.

Can't say with any great degree of certainty that this is what helped and that it was not anything else (this obviously was not a scientifically sound double blinded experiment), but this did seem to stave off what initially resulted in fairly quick and wide spread mortality. Since you say your GF is a microbiologist you may be able to further categorize the microorganisms as gram+ or gram - and more specifically treat than I did (I work in a hospital but this happened so quickly that I did not have the opportunity to take it to someone to evaluate, but I to I based the above on some reading I had done and thank God it worked).

I do believe that in our little microcosms we frequently have delicate microbial balances that can be upset by relatively minor things and that much of our "sudden mortality" is the result of unknown or poorly known bacterial pathogens.

Anyway, good luck. Let us know how your zoos do.

Frans

[MUCHO REEF]

Hello bkiba, sorry to hear that you too are experiencing the latest zooanthid plague. My first experience was about a year ago. Out of the blue, there it was growing on the side of a couple of stolens on a single colony. A day later I noticed it on the opposite side of my tank on a second colony, then a third. It's at times like this that I wish I were a Marine Biologist or the like, to seriously tackle these type of issues. I can't say if it's BI or a fungus of some sort . What I do know is that these nodules, postules, for the lack of a better word, range in colors. Typically Opaque white or light cream, to milky white to a light yellowish cheesy color. They are sticky and well secured to individual polyps. Trying to cut them away has only resulted in tissue damage and potential infections to the affected polyps/colony.

I tried dipping and it was not affective at eradicating them. I tried adjusting certain parameters with hopes of possibly killing it off. That didn't work either. I did notice however that they did indeed multiply/spread, more when my lights were on. When I ran my actinics only, the progression slowed, but it didn't kill it. I have absolutely no idea what it is. It was theorized in something I read somewhere last year, that there was a direct correlation with MH lighting when the problem arose. However I have read that reefers would ran PC or MH have also experienced the same problem.

Lets not confuse this with the white pin dot pimples on the underside of many zooanthids we have in our tanks. These white dots are merely a part of the pigment of the polyp. I have many colonies with this same dotted pigment in my tank and they have grown without any negative or adverse issues whatsoever for many many years. These white pimpled dots are embedded in the fleshy underside of said polyps and should not be confused with the issue you are experiencing.

I would never consider dipping any zoo colony for 2 or 3 hours. And I mean absolutely no disrespect TheMcs. It might kill the white stuff, but I can assure you it will have a negative if not fatal impact on the colony.

There are so many of us who shy away from treatments such as Tetracycline. It has a proven track record as a good remedy for many issues. If it worked for you fvandijk, you may be on to something. I say try it again and see what happens. Please come back and post the results, we would all love to know the results my friend.

I hate to be defeated, I hate not knowing, I hate losing zoos for any reason. I hate sitting and waiting for a cure to hit the market. I think more of us should do what fvandijk has done. Even though I might shy away from it with such a large number of zoos in my tank, I do applaud him and reefers like him who at least make the attempt.

Last year I watched as 4 of my prime colonies succumbed to these white patches. I tried everything I knew, from quarantining, changing elevation, placing the colonies under an overhang, you name it. So I had a hunch. If you remove the colony and touch these white patches, they are somewhat raised, lumpy, bumpy and sticky moist of course, and they won't peel off that easy. So the second time I had it, I removed the colonies and did a 5 minute dip with slightly elevated levels of iodine. 10 drops of Lugols to 1 gallon of RO water. I raised the temp of the water to 80 degrees, just 2 degrees higher than my tank. After the dip, (and hold on to your live rocks when you hear this), I placed the affected colonies on a piece of paper towel on the counter in the kitchen. Making sure the ambient room temp was a little warmer than usual, I left them there for 5 hours. Before you gasp, zoos are typically exposed to the sun in shallow areas during low tide, this fact is well documented. My theory, and it was only a theory, was to allow these white globs to just dehydrate and die off. To my surprise, after slowly warming them up to the same temp as my tank water, and placing them back in tank just before my tank was completely dark for the evening; I noticed a major improvement the following day. There were only a few spots left. The following day, there were tiny dots of it left. Within 5 days, it was completely gone. I managed to save 2 of the 3 affected colonies. Now here's the crazy thing that baffles me to this day. It showed up again a few weeks ago, this time I decided to do nothing, nothing but direct my return nozzle so it was hit with a constant current. Mind you, it was one of my favorite colonies, but I took the chance to see what would happen if I left it where it was and just showered it with excessive flow. Believe it or not, it slowly reversed the infestation. Now I'm waiting to see if shows up again, and I will remove the colony to see if allowing them to dehydrate is the thing to do.

I hope we continue the dialogue on this issue and I hope someone out there can find a way to stop the progression and onset of this problem.

Mucho Reef

[Reef Junkie]

I was waiting to hear what you had to say about this Mucho.
This is a problem that has been plagueing a lot of tanks lately and I had them a while back. I removed the colony to inspect it and like you said, the pustules or whatever they are appear to be in or imbedded in the tissue of the zoanthids.
I've read information in the past by an author (I'm not sure if I have this right) that claims soft corals can accumulate enough toxic chemicals in their tissue and basically kill themselves because they cannot expell it fast enough. I think the author said the offending chemical is similar to Hydrogen Peroxide in the tissue. The author was Julian Sprung and I'm trying to find that snipette he wrote. I don't remember if it was in Reef notes or in one of his Reef volumes.

Anyway, from what you have said and from mine and other experiences, I don't think this is something that is viral or passes from tank to tank like nudibranchs. It could be a very normal process and affliction caused by a lack of nutrients or vitamin suppliments? Kind of like scurvy before they knew lack of vitamin C was the culprit.

Back to the author... He explained how to reverse the buildup of toxin in the corals using suppliments, but I think it might have been a shameless attempt to sell some of his products, who knows? He suggested using an Iodine suppliment added directly to the tank to help the corals expire these toxins.

News update, you're not going to believe this! I stopped writing and glanced up at my tank to see a large colony of my zoas closed... It is completely (skirt to base) covered with these nodules! Yet it was completely open and thriving minutes ago...

This should be made a sticky and we should delve deeper into this. Please for the love of "my" zoanthids!;)

Ideas?

[bkiba]

Hmm

I've got plenty of zoos afflicted so I can try the drying method and the tetracycline method (any idea on where to buy the tablets?). I will also run the lights on low. These things look a lot like bacteria to me. If it is a toxic chemical buildup then that may have ground too since I never do water changes :rolleyes:

anyhow I will report back when I get some more progress.

thanks to everyone for the suggestions I really appreciate it!

[dcoufal]

You should be able to pickup Tetracycline from most LFS's -- even WalMart typically carries it in the fish area....

Note: It's labeled "Not for human consumption" and costs many x's the price of the "human" version.

Dwain

[TheMcs]

Mucho, no offense taken, just tried that because a friend had accidentally left zoas in a dip overnight with no ill effect.

bkiba, some of my colonies that had the whites spots and were treated to the 3 hour dip are surviving and starting to open. I like some of the other suggestions a lot better than my remedy (obviously). In my case, it took 2-3 hours for the FW Lugol's dip to kill the white spot. Effective to treat the ailment, but not healthy for the zoas.

I had tried fragging the night before, removing approx 250 polyps. I thought I was thorough, but the next day it was back in full force.

I first noticed the spots on a small frag of blues that had fallen upside down into a hole. It was there a couple days before I found it. When I pulled it out it had the white spots. The next day they were spread through the tank.

We definitely need to get this thing figured out!

[fvandijk]

You could get the tetracycline at a drug store if you can get a perscription from someone (this will probably be the cheapest).

Otherwise, most LFS or petstores carry one form or another. I got Maracyn-TC (made by Mardel) at Petsmart and this is in a powder form which will dissolve much faster, i.e. seconds to minutes (I used some in pill form before and found it took several hours to dissolve- maybe if you use a mortar and pestle to grind up the pills this will decrease the time also).

Good luck.

[bkiba]

Thanks again guys. Ive removed all but one (large colony) of affected zoos to a quaratine system. The remaining colony has a small infestation. I just had surgery yesterday so I'm not really up to fish tank maintenance just yet. But I've switched over to atinics only in the main system and haven't seen any spread yet. The quarantine system is full of FSW with some extra iodine added. I'm probably going to try the drying method first after a lugols dip since I can't drive anywhere yet. But maybe I can get some tetracycline off the internet somewhere (canada?? :D). So thanks again for all the suggestions, I'm a little less worried now and hopefully will get this thing licked.

[MarvinsReef]

great replies everyone... this is something that needs to be figured out as a lot of beautiful zoas are being destroyed because of this... I have some frags on QT right now that are displaying the symptom.. I will have to try the drying method tomorrow..

Thanks again.
Marvin

[MUCHO REEF]

I would shot for a couple of hours instead of 5 just to be safe, It's not a proven fact just because it worked for me. I am waiting for it to happen again to see if I can do the same thing. Shot for 3 hours and see what happens. I once left a frag sitting on the counter by mistake for an entire day, and it opened in a couple of hours after going back into my tank. Now that's hardy.

Mucho

[tekknoschtev]

Mucho, I accidentally left a small frag of polyps that were floating in the tank (me thinks the hermits snipped it off and the flow got to it) sitting on the black rim of the tank for nearly 3 hours, and they appeared pretty much baked (MH lights and all). I dont like throwing zoanthids away - especially after seeing how much money I've spent on them, and then realizing the fact that they are living creatures - so I mounted it to a frag plug. They're doing great today! Holds true to that tidal region exposed to the sun all day to a certain degree.

As for the drying method, I cant say as to the amount of time the polyps were out of the water, however, when attempting to save a colony of Ked's Reds zoanthids, I fragged the small colony into three pieces, two of which had the white splotches, one which didnt. I placed the one that didnt in the 150gal tank, and then put one of the ones with the splotches in the fuge of the 150 (VHO lighting). The other one went into the frag tank. Today, I have three healthy, growing zoanthids, two mounted to frag plugs, one mounted to an agrocrete rock. No more white stuff. So perhaps a certain component of this method is stress? Perhaps stress causes them to excrete the toxic chemical or whatever is growing on them? Stress in the drying method from being out of their natural environment (and in your case, with elevated iodine levels, and variances in temperature to a certain degree) and stress in my case, because while fragging they were dried off on a towel prior to mounting?

Very thought provoking discussion.

[ALTI]

i had the same problem for a long time with a colony of brown button polyps. dips did nothing for me. it didnt spread and it seemed to come and go. not too many polyps actually died. they would close for a couple of weeks and most would reopen after a while. since i moved it to my prop system where it is getting a more direct constant current and stronger lighting it has completely vanished and the colony is growing out of control.

now im starting to get it on another colony of paly's. this colony is in a lower current area of the prop tank. i fragged off 6 small frags of the effected polyps and am going to try all different type of placement to see what works best.

[Nagel]

wow, I step away for a few days and this happens..

A most excellent discussion guys, I am sorry I can't offer more on this subject as I really havent had to deal with it..

Bu, I stickied the thread, and changed the title to reflect the discussion at hand..

[Reef Junkie]

Excellent, thanks Eric!
So far the colony that has this same affliction hasn't shown any sign of recession or distress. I am going to wait and see. If it starts to get worse I may try Mucho's method to reverse the process.
Keep the post coming.:)

[Reef Junkie]

Question, can the people who posted about having this problem list their systems specs?
More specifically, what they do to help keep their water clean/clear?
I have a hunch on why this might be happening, because I did something recently and I think it might be the culprit or part of the problem.
Thanks,
Bill

[MarvinsReef]

Originally posted by Reef Junkie
Question, can the people who posted about having this problem list their systems specs?
More specifically, what they do to help keep their water clean/clear?
I have a hunch on why this might be happening, because I did something recently and I think it might be the culprit or part of the problem.
Thanks,
Bill

can you please this thing that you recently did so others can try it also and see if it works...

thanks
Marvin

[Reef Junkie]

Oh right, sorry marv.;)

Well, it seems that since I am running a 400 watt MH bulb and the findings of Mucho, I am slowly putting 2 & 2 together.

First about my setup.

My tank setup consists of LR, LS, a refugium, good water circulation and 2 Part Bi-Ionic. I top the tank off everyday with fresh water and feed moderately once a day.
I do not use a skimmer or any other mechanical device to clense my water. I have added a poly filter pad once and a while, but that is it. Water changes are when I feel like it. Once a month, maybe.

Recently, about a month ago, I harvested my Chaeto. Then a week later added carbon. Then when this post was made, I replied on the second day to find that I too now had zoas with these lesions.
What does it mean? Could the increase in light (from taking some of the yellow out of the water) be shocking the corals into producing higher amounts of some unknown chemical and it's showing up in the form of these nodules?

Well, I have moved the afflicted colonies to the outskirts of the light. One colony is starting to lose some of the nodules, yet it never really suffered from them.
Another two newly afflicted colonies are not happy because they keep getting knocked around. Once they have settled, I might be able to get a better idea of how they are doing.

Just to expand on what Mucho wrote above... Another member here (wrkinreef) is a diver in Fla and says he finds colonies out of the water for hours at a time and others in full daylight in shallow water. Maybe the former colonies are expiring the toxins being out of the water, like Mucho described?
But the ones in shallow water, wouldn't they suffer from the same problem, or is it because of special circumstances in our tanks?

Anyhow, I am perplexed by this and will post what I find. Anyone else with experience with this should also start and continue to post on this thread.

Cheers,
Bill

[Reef Junkie]

Well, I finally found the excerpt from Julian Sprung and Charles Delbeek.
It starts with references to corallimorpharians, but also added that it could apply to all corals.

The Reef Aqarium - Sprung & Delbeek - Volume II Page 313 - 316

Here are the important highlights.

Lighting:

Strong illumination, particularly if it has a high quantity of UV wavelength, stimulates the production (via photosynthesis by zooxanthellae) of toxic high levels of oxygen in the tissue of the host anemone, corallimorpharian, or coral. We should clarify that the molecular oxygen produced is not so problematic. When the anemone is illuminated by high intensity light, the energetic UV wavelengths in the presense of photosynthesitizing agents such as chlorophyll and flavins act synergistically to produce singlet oxyen and the superoxide radical (02), which is very reactive and readily forms hydrogen peroxide H202 (Shick, 1991). If you've ever poured hydrogen peroxide on a cut or put it in your hair you know it is also very reactive, and not something you want accumulating in your tissues! Dyken and Shick (1982) describe the enzymatic defenses utilized to counter the effects of the superoxide. In one strategy the enzyme superoxide dismutase keeps cellular levels of superoxide low while other enzymes, catalase and peroxidase, convert the hydrogen peroxide produced into water and oxygen. Other biochemical antioxidants may also be used instead of enzymes (Tapley, Shick and Smith, 1988). Dykens (1984) showed that zooxanthellae have high levels of superoxide dismutase activity, and enzyme used is a form with copper and zinc ions, a form not known from other unicellular eukaryotic algae.

What is mysterious is the effect of trace elements on this condition. Iodine (aspotassium iodide) seems to help prevent this problem, and it is possible that other trace elements help also.
Perhaps the trace quantities of copper and zinc from added weekly suppliments assist in the formation of the zooxanthellae's special enzymes. Prehaps there is an antioxidant effect achieved by the iodide being converted to iodate, as suggested by Buddemeier in Delbeek and Sprung (1994). With all the talk about antioxidants and health lately, it's no wonder this has application to the subject of reef corals, anemones, ect.

---------------------------------------------------------

For most photosynthetic cnidarians adaptation to the artificial light is just a matter of time, and it involves changes in pigment density and quantity of zooxanthellae. for some the adaptation is difficult, and ifthey are daily stressed by light intensity that produces toxic oxygen radicals beyond their physiological cpacity to detoxify them, they may never adapt. the light in nature is pulsed because of the passage of clouds. the periods of rest provided do actually assist in preventing the accumulation of superoxide by limiting it's production. It is not essential to duplicate this pulsing of the light, but it is possible to do it (Gutierrez, 1991).

I knew I wasn't crazy and that I read this somewhere.

Thoughts?

Bill

[fvandijk]

Reef Junkie,

I'm certainly no expert, but I believe that the process Julian Sprung is describing is more related to bleaching events. i.e. the production of superoxide radicals having a toxic effect on the zooxanthellae and resultant bleaching event. Also that this could be mitigated by addition of iodine which serves as an antioxidant.

Other interesting quote, however from Eric Borneman's book p.384:

Zoanthid condition 2 is characterized by zoanthid polyps closing up and becoming soft and mushy. Most often, there is a white "cheesy" deposit or film that appears on the outer surface of the polyps. This almost invariably results in the death of the animal and is almost certainly caused by Beggiatoa sp.

Regards,
Frans

[Reef Junkie]

Frans,
Thank you for chiming in on this.:)
You know, Sprung/Delbeek don't even describe any end process for this. Just that it's "not something you want accumulating in your tissues" and that's about it.

I understand that bleaching is the expulsion of zooxanthellae. It could be that corals expell the zooxanthellae because they're producing the superoxide? But again, theres no description given of the after effects. Except that the coral will die if left in that state. Yet, the antioxidant statement is really an eye catcher.
Maybe I'll start dosing Lycopene in my reef tank...;)

I don't think Eric's description is what's happening with my animals. It's not a white cheesy deposit. They're more like yellowish/white nodules.
Plus, I never did like the bacteria theory.
Bacteria are opportunistic. Healthy animals are very resistant to most advances made by bacteria. Something has to be causing the initial offense to give any other organism the opportunity to afflict these animals.

Plus, the Sprung/ Delbeek description kind of coincides with what's been said so far.
Light seems to play a factor in what's happening to these animals. Maybe Sprung/Delbeek are right and this is some sort of disese brought on from the lack of antioxidants and the intense lighting we place in our tanks. I mean, sure, it's not nearly as strong as the Sun, but it's constant and we do not provide the same nutrition these corals are used to getting on a daily basis in the wild.
Maybe I should yank my Carbon afterall?

More please, lets keep this discussion going.

Cheers,
Bill

[bkiba]

Here is my input so far - there are certainly a number of factors to consider.

Initially harvesting samples from the lesions and viewing under a microscope appear to be colonies of bacteria - although this is still hard to determine even at 400X due to the size of bacteria

Second, after adding iodine to the slide the consistensy of the bacterial colonies (if that is what they are) begins to break up and turn clumpy.

Third, I've moved all affected colonies of zoos to a rubbermaid tub with a single 100W PC screwin bulb @ 6500K.

Fourth, I've treated selected colonies in that tub tetracycline and FW for 10 minutes then a FW/lugols dip for 10 minutes.

The abundance of the spots is decreasing, however there are still 1 or two colonies in my main system that it spread too. Polyps that are totally unaffected include RPPE's and some other pinks, mostly corals with no mat (palys or protopalys?) there is one strain im sure is a zoa that is also not effected.


So, I've moved them to lower light, done lugols and tetracycline dips. I've seen definite improvement in the worst colonies and some just aren't bothered at all by the zoo pox. I'm leaving the rubbermaid tub quarantine up for another week until I really get some colonies with no more bumps (before going back to display).

[bkiba]

Oh and to your point about the bacteria being opportunistic Bill - this problem started after I participated in the zoo swap (not that I blame anyone). But that is a very high likely event for introducing this stuff to my system.

I do have rather intense PC lighting 655W over a 72. But I've noticed colonies at the top and bottom getting the infection. There is certainly a drop in the Q tub, which may be due to the lower light levels.

I also have no skimming - no filtration really :rolleyes:

[Reef Junkie]

Wow, thanks for the input bkiba.
That sounds a whole lot of trouble you're going through!
My concern would be if I did everything you listed above and then after placing them back into the main display they were afflicted again. That would suck in a big way.

I'd love to know why this is happening.
Another point, my Protopaly's (knock on wood) have not had this problem. Plus, it's only certain colonies of zoanthids.
I wonder why it's not all of them? (man am I asking for it!):rolleyes:

[dcoufal]

Has anyone that runs a UV filter had zoo pox? Just curious....

Dwain

[bkiba]

I tell you there is definatley a sort of the speices which include RPE's that are totally unafected. The ones most effected seem to be one of the mat types.

The individual polyp types seem unaffected.

This could be more related to the zooanthelle because I know the RPE and other single polyp types will readily take food as oppsed to regular zoas which don't really take large solid foods.

[bkiba]

No UV filter here - although I think it would be a great idea to run one at least in my Q tank.

[Reef Junkie]

Right bkiba, so the protopalys must be getting their nutrition from feeding. Maybe they receive antioxidants from this nutrition?

Anyway, I am going to try changing some things around (one at a time) and see what happens.

I know I told you this before, but I love your Carl avatar!:lmao:
I just wish ATHF was on more often.;)

[bkiba]

Yea I wish they'd make some new episodes.

What are some common antioxidants? Maybe I could just add that to the water?



Ok I did some research-

Vit E and C are good ones

E is fat soluble and C is water soluble.

Maybe I'll try C first and see if that has an effect.

[Reef Junkie]

Somewhere along the Jersey shore...

Hey, can you take before and after pictures when you add the Vit C?

[TheMcs]

I'm not sold on the light theory. After expelling this curse from my display I've put all new zoas in QT. A frag that's been in the QT tank for 2 weeks (35w daylight PC bulb) has shown the white spots today. Display tank affected by white spots earlier has 175w MH.
QT tank has no filtration, just a ph. Water changes are done 2x weekly (5 gal on a 20 gal system). I do have LR, chaeto, & sand in the QT which I will be removing today.

[Reef Junkie]

Mcs,
I'm leaning towards antioxidants.
Maybe it's something like the common cold. Except it's a killer common cold?
Anyway, this affliction is almost as mysterious as RTN in SPS.
Keep posting!:)
Bill

[bkiba]

what is RTN on SPS?

[Reef Junkie]

Sorry man, it's Rapid Tissue Necrosis (RTN) on Small Polyped Stonies (SPS).

Cheers,
Bill

[TheMcs]

Let's try to summarize some of the info in here. Please correct as I don't completely have a handle on everything in this thread.

possible CAUSES:
- bacterial infection
- internal oxidants
- PC or MH lighting

shared parameters:
- PC or MH lighting
- reef tank
- zoanthids :D

possible CURES:
- tetracycline dip
- supplemental Lugol's dip
- air exposure

I've had the spots show up in my MH lit display tank & just recently in my PC lit QT tank. I had placed some of the rubble from my display into my QT, so there's the possibility of transferrance.

[Reef Junkie]

You're right on!:D
The only thing I would add is...

Suppliments:
Different additives
lack of nutrition
possible disease caused by the deficit.

I would hold off on using Lugol's as a suppliment because of it's potential toxicity. Maybe a watered (no pun) down version. Possibly even Vit C like bkiba mentioned?

So far I have moved my afflicted colonies to the outter edges of the light. I haven't noticed a difference yet. It's only been a couple of weeks.
I removed the Carbon and noticed a couple of other (unaffected) colonies are opening a bit more.
No suppliments yet.
My next step is to increase my water changes frequency. If no noticeable difference, to consider a suppliment.

Cheers,
Bill

[bkiba]

I added a crushed up ester C 1000mg to my tub. We will see what happens. No apparent major problems after a few hours though.

[TheMcs]

I dose Purple Up for calcium in my tanks, & Stability in the QT tank.
There is no filtration in QT, just water changes. Display has an ER skimmer & tons of LR.

[jjmcat]

Ive not had any problems with the fungas yet.I do add Echinacea to my reef food though.Could the Echinacea be helping the zoas immune system?

[Reef Junkie]

Echinacea? How long have you been using it?
We haven't determined if it's a fungus yet. I think one of the other members said the spots appear to be concentrations of bacteria. We're just trying to figure out why they're appearing in the first place!?
How do you add the Echinacea to the fish food?
Cheers,
Bill

[jjmcat]

I mix it in with my reef mush.Using this now for about 8 months.

[Reef Junkie]

Nice, have you noticed a marked difference? (good or bad)

[bkiba]

Update - my Q'd polyps seem to be getting better, except for the one rock that was worst off and got heavy doses of tetracycline and iodine. I don't think the vit C is having a major effect.

As a note to the nutrient or whatever deficiency, I mixed NSW for the Q tank. I also can't recall the last NSW W/C I did on my main system. Maybe that is it?

[Reef Junkie]

Boy, it'll be a kick in the pants if that's the reason why this is happening!:furious:

[TheMcs]

Can't be water changes. I change the water in my QT tank 1-2 times weekly.

I'm going to try the Tet. treatment tonight. Not sure if I should just try the medicine, or also the air exposure as well.

Maybe I missed it, how is the Vit C being dosed? In what form? Can I dip the zoas in OJ? :D

[bkiba]

Oh yea I forgot that I did the air exposure too for 5 hrs or so after drying the colonies off by patting with a paper towel. The vit C - I just crushed up a 1000mg ester C tablet and threw in the dust :D

[Reef Junkie]

I'm thinking of crushing some Vit C, putting it in a container with tank water and letting the colonies soak for an hour in the container. I wonder if they would take up the Vit C?
Plus I wonder if the "other" ingredients in the Vit C will cause algae outbreaks if dumped in the tank.
bkiba, let us know.
Cheers,
Bill

[TheMcs]

Did the 10 minute Tet. dip, followed by 10 min. Lugol's dip, followed by 1 hour air exposure (couldn't bear any more).

There's no noticeable difference in the zoas. bkiba, how fast did yours begin to recover?

[Reef Junkie]

I removed the carbon, did a 5% water change and put the afflicted colonies in shaded areas. I also air dried one of the colonies.
So far, one of the three colonies seems to be making a comeback and the other two are not getting any worse. Also, after removing the carbon all of my colonies seem to be "fuller".
I will post more info when I have it. I am kind of hesitant to use Tet and the 2 hour air drying didn't seem to help much on the one colony.
Lugols actually hurt one of my colonies when I dipped it for an extended period a while back. I will save it for parasite dips.

Keep posting!

Cheers,
Bill

[MarvinsReef]

Originally posted by Reef Junkie
I removed the carbon, did a 5% water change and put the afflicted colonies in shaded areas. I also air dried one of the colonies.
So far, one of the three colonies seems to be making a comeback and the other two are not getting any worse. Also, after removing the carbon all of my colonies seem to be "fuller".
I will post more info when I have it. I am kind of hesitant to use Tet and the 2 hour air drying didn't seem to help much on the one colony.
Lugols actually hurt one of my colonies when I dipped it for an extended period a while back. I will save it for parasite dips.

Keep posting!

Cheers,
Bill

Bill, do you think that theres an ill effect of having carbon running all the time? I keep mine in for water clarity.. Should I remove the carbon and just run them once in a while?

Thanks
Marvin

[Reef Junkie]

Not sure Marv.
I know that it strips your water of not just the bad stuff.
Anyway, I noticed a decline in my colonies after I began to use the carbon.
My "guess" is that it's not something added, but something taken away. Some ingredient that is missing and causing the colonies to shrink/die.;)
I don't have any proof about this other then what I have eye witnessed. I'm hoping my colonies bounce back in a month or so.

Plight of the SPS/Softy keeper. Keep the water too clean, and the softies suffer, keep it too dirty and the SPS suffer. It's a tough balancing act to keep both types of animals happy.

If you don't have any SPS, then it's safe to say you don't really need to run carbon. Or at least not as aggressively. Maybe just once a month and maybe just a handful.

Otherwise, if you do have SPS, maybe you should try running a little less carbon? You might want to go cold turkey for just a little while to see if your animals (zoas) respond positively to it's removal.
I would also consider a water change. I'm trying to do 5% twice a week for about a month. I say try, because I'm lazy.;)

Keep posting, especially if you're having this problem.

Cheers,
Bill

[TheMcs]

I treated 4 colonies/frags last night. The worst one, the frag, has the only noticeable change. The white spots are now dark brown. Zoas are closed up (still dark in that tank) so I don't know how they'll look. Other zoa rocks looks the same, not better, not worse.

[bkiba]

Update on me. You all know I've tried everything suggested here so far. Out of about 6 colonies and 15 frags. All but one seem to be doing well showing improvement. One colony has succumbed to what looks like a fungus. Just happens to be the one that got tertracycline treatments. All the others have either had a combo of drying and lugols dips or just been sitting under low light this whole time. I actually put 2 frags back into my display after a dip and because they showed no signs of lesions.

[TheMcs]

Have all been subjected to the Vit C?

[Reef Junkie]

Ouch bkiba!
That's tough.:(

So I had another colony that didn't have the lesions, but it stopped growing and didn't open as well for some reason. This was about a few weeks ago.
Since I removed the carbon and started changing water, they're opening up more and still show no sign of lesions.
The other colonies are status quo, except one colony which seems to be doing better. It receded a bit, but the surrounding polyps are open and full again. Lesions are also smaller.
I wish I knew exactly why this is happening???:confused:

[bkiba]

Mcs - Yes

Quarantining seems to help for sure. But I've had very large covered rocks in the main display and they have also been doing much better. Maybe this is like the flu for zoos. There was just a large trade so its just like a bunch of sick kids playing together. When did this problem first arise for everyone?

[TheMcs]

End of October for me. A few days after we brought some stuff home from our club's frag raffle. Oddly enough, we didn't bring any zoas home. Last zoas introduced were about a week before that. First frag affected was one we'd had for months.

[Reef Junkie]

Mid October for me.

[bkiba]

Pretty much the same for me - about a week before I started this thread (10/19/05)

Were you guys involved in Scribe's zoo swap at all? None of my partners in that had any problems but it could have been dormant in their systems without them knowing.

Maybe this is like one of those timed computer viruses that sits idle and goes off at a given time :rolleyes:

[Reef Junkie]

Oh, you mean like Robot Overlords? :strooper: :lmao:

I wasn't in that swap, but I don't think it's a communicable disease. I could be wrong, but I'm leaning more towards deficiency. Especially since the colonies affected were growing large. They could've just crashed?
Hard to tell, but the search goes on. Hopefully one of us or all of us will get closer to the answer.

[bkiba]

It could also be a seasonal thing combined with something else (ie a deficiency). If you have house plants you know that even absent of any sunlight they know somehow when fall is here. Even my bearded dragons know when it is hibernation time. Maybe this is like a fall cleaning for the zoos for something that has built up over the year. I dunno.... my biggest fear is that this will completley fix itself and we will have more questions than we did before as to what the cause/cure is.

[TheMcs]

The largest of my affected colonies were about 3-4 inches across, most small frags.
I didn't take part in any frag swaps, just stuff from the LFS.
I'm going to start adding Vit C tomorrow.

[dcoufal]

Originally posted by bkiba
Were you guys involved in Scribe's zoo swap at all? None of my partners in that had any problems but it could have been dormant in their systems without them knowing.

bkiba - It still looks clear here (knock on wood) -- including the frags you sent... Everything's growing well. (Other than an acan lord that seems to be upset. ;))

Dwain

[wrkinreef]

Well I have brought this up once before I think that it is a seasonal issue. In the wild from late may till end of october they are everywhere. From november till may cant find them. Now this is in se Florida Fort pierce inlet to be exact. I have seen this for almost 20 years. I do alot of fishing there. I know we keep our systems more stable temp sal and such. In my area water temps hit the mid 90"s on an outgoing tide in the summer then a big rain =drop in temp and sg from runofff. Cold water upwellings can drop temps by 20 overnight. So one would 'nt think our tanks would be affected by the seasonal changes. But I think they are affected greatly. Late May till late October = lots of zoo's in my area. November till early May dont see a one .

[Pleco420]

Bravo, I learned more about Zoos from reading this thread than I ever thought imaginable. My sunshine zoos are infected with the same lesion symptons and it seems to come and go a little bit. I increased my water changes and shortly after that the symptoms were less obvious (yet not totally iradicated). I will be supplementing Iodine after I get some to try and increase the affected zoos tolerance to the aprropriately coined "Zoopox" plague and keep up with this thread.

Reefcentral rules!!!

[Reefer Wannabe]

I lost a lot of zoas around mid-October also, interesting thought about the seasonal thing, the zoo flu season?--but no noticable white lesions on them. I do have a few polyps right now with lesions. Thankfully, they are not attached to any other colony, nor in close contact with any colonies.

Maybe I missed it in this thread, but how many people just left the zoos alone, and if so, what happened?

[Reef Junkie]

:wavehand:
I have not done anything to one colony. I did one waterchange so far. The other water change has been put on hold due to a new job and plain laziness. :lol:

News update...

The afflicted colonies seem to be bouncing back! :D
More news at 11...

[MUCHO REEF]

I had a total of 3 colonies, red, green and peach that were affected. This time I just lefted them alone after doing an initial fresh water dip with 6 drops of Lugols per 1 gallon of RO water. I did a water change once a week for three weeks, and believe it or not, I didn't lose a single colony, and all are doing fine with no residual affects. The white lesions slowly dissolved. I have absolutely no idea why. I mean every single colony is in mint condition. There's a reason, if we keep talking and sharing, we will find it.

Please don't stop sharing you guys.

I don't believe it's a communicable disease, as it would affect far more colonies then it does. Plus, the outbreaks are scattered around my tank and not necessarily in one isolated area. It can and has affected colonies that have been in my tank for years as well as some recent arrivals. If it's a parameter, why aren't more colonies affected as well. What causes the onset, and what causes it to just disappear in some tanks and persistantly reappears in others? We've never discussed this, but has anyone tracked the geographical regions/origins of the affected zoos? Hmmmmmmm, could that be it?

Mooch

[Reef Junkie]

Well, we're onto something here.
Mooch is right, there is something going on here that none of us understand just yet. I still think it's something so simple that we've all looked right past it. Maybe it is seasonal?

I moved another colony that was in front of one of my afflicted colonies tonight, not only was it open, but the receding areas had filled in already.
How many other people have been seeing a turn around in there corals?
Bill

[bkiba]

I just got back from a business trip. The colony I'd eavily treated is pretty much gone, but the rest of the frags are stressed but will probably recover. The ones I put back in my display are just starting to come out fully open.

One thing I didn't realize I've been doing is in my QT I don't have any autotopoff. So the SG in there has been fluctuating a lot. Before I left I realized about 1/2 the water had been evaped so I added a buckect of FW. So maybe hypersalinity is helping me. I'm going to do a final run through on the Q'd corals today and start putting everything back (hopefully). So I really just lost 1 colony to this (so far).

Maybe the zoos are just going through puberty ;)

[Reef Junkie]

Heh, puberty.:lol:

My afflicted colonies are doing better everyday. The first one I noticed with this is almost fully recovered and the other two are making a comeback.
I really didn't do anything.
This is going to drive me crazy!:wildone:

[bkiba]

I replaced all of my frags to my main tank after a 5 hour air dry. It is weird because only a couple had any signs of the problem. The spots could be removed with a Q-Tip, and it appeared to leave a small hole in the outer-most tissue of the zoo. After removing the white spot a hole in the outer skin created a tear that could be used to remove almost all of thay layer of the tissue from the zoo.

Maybe these are kind of like burns or something and they leave the zoo once the tissue from underneath grows out? It is hard to explain what I saw - I shoulda taken some pics.

Anyhow it seems like the spots are easy to remove when they are the darker yellowish brownish color. The white spots are pretty well embedded and cannot be removed by simply rubbing them off.

As of now I only have 2 larger rocks and one frag I missed still in QT. My zoos are pretty stressed out as of now so I'll probably only run atinics the next few days. But I'm sure they will make a full comeback.

[TheMcs]

I think the most lethal aspect of these white bumps has been my treatment of it. A few people around here have had the bumps and did nothing, their's are healing. I've done extended dips, air dry, lugol's, vit c, hydrogen peroxide. About half the colonies are making a comeback, the other half are black & necrotic. Whether it's through treatment or the seasonal change, the white bumps are going away.

[MarvinsReef]

Thanks for all the responses...

For mine.. I've noticed that the ones that don't get enough flow tend to get the white spots.. I've had some that I dipped and make it and some didn't.. I'm really not sure what it is.. :(

But I've added a little more flow and will be doing a water change tonight..

Marvin

[TheMcs]

From what I've gathered talking to local reefers who have experienced the white bumps, there's almost no common denominator. All I can gather is that a stressor triggers the response.

[jimsflies]

Thought I would share some of my recent issues with this problem....

I noticed these white dots on some of my zoos for the first time last week. I fw dipped the healthiest colony (white dots on a some, and a couple polyps closed out of a 30-40 polyp frag) for a couple minutes and gently brushed and picked at some of the affected polyps. Well within two days the colony turned to mush. I saved one polyp.

I have never noticed the white dots before. However I have a green colony of zoos that is not very remarkable and it has totally covered then got sick and receeded on this one rock at least twice. It receeded about 2 months ago down to one polyp and now its regaining and has 15-20 polyps.

I replaced the old carbon in my sump with new. I have been doing 3-5 gallon water changes on my 50 gallon tank on a weekly basis. I run a barebottom tank and change water to remove detritis from the bottom. I have lots of flow in the tank (25 gpm in a 50 gallon tank). My total water volume is 70 gallons between the display and sump.

Water chemistry could be better which I believe could be contributing to the problem. My nitrates have slowly been on the rise. The test last week showed 15 ppm of nitrate (0 ammonia, 0 nitrite). I recently replaced my remora aqua C with a deltec MC500 hoping the better skimmer would help reduce waste and keep nitrates down.

Upon discovering the white dots this past weekend, I reinstalled a UV sterilizer (hoping that it would help). I also did a 10-12 gallon water change. Also after reading earlier in this thread that the white spots could be bacterial, this morning I dosed the tank with 1 disolved tablet of myacin. I have used myacin a couple times in the past for cyano (works like a charm). I'm fairly confident that it won't hurt anything and is worth a shot.

In an effort to reduce the nitrates and perhaps dilute any "toxin" build up in the system, I am going to prepare a 25 gallon water change this weekend.

Right now several colonies have the white spots. Of these colonies some of the zoos are still opening, although not fully. Some of the colonies have polyps that are too far gone to save. I agree that it doesn't seem to affect ppe's or rpe's (or other palythoas).

Having become discouraged with zoos (die back of colonies, frags that don't make it, and generally slow growth) in the past couple months, I have greatly increased the number of ricordias and mushrooms in my system. Not sure if this is relevant, but thought I would mention it as another system change that perhaps could have brought this on.

I haven't given up on zoos. But now wish that I wasn't so heavily invested in them. I don't think they are as easily to keep as they seem on the surface with all the maladies that effect them. Unfortunately my live rock and aquascaping was all done with zoos in mind when I built this tank (lots of branches with outcroppings for zoos to cover). So, hopefully we can come up with a cure since I'm not prepared to redo the tank just yet.

[Reef Junkie]

Jim,
Well it seems your wracking you mind about this as much as the rest of us.
I have not heard any success stories of people dipping and then scrubbing the bumps off. Scrubbing = bad.;)
So far the test, change water and then do nothing method seems to be the only cure.
The first colony I noticed with this problem has almost completely recovered and is growing back. I did move them to an area that had slightly more light and less water movement.
The other two colonies are doing better in the higher light location. They also seemed to like less current, not more.
Please post and let us know what happens.
Cheers,
Bill

[zephyros]

hi guys,

my zoos seems to be hit by some unknown disease too,
but i'm not sure if it is the same thing as discussed in this thread.

the affected zoo polyps are close and some ployps seems to melt
away (like yuma). the closed polyp also shrunk in size (unlike
healthly polyps when close). this wasting disease is not very fast
in terms of transiting from polyp to polyp. I would say abt 2-3
polyps "disappear" per week.

whether this disease is contagious (as in fr frag to frag) i'm not
sure, coz i had a frag that wasted away over a period of 2 months
but the other frags of zoos were all ok during this time. However,
recently, I notice another frag of zoos had the sign of the disease.

I'm not sure if this observation helps, some1 in the thread
mentioned abt seasonal stuff abt zoos. I had both Fuji and
Indonesia zoos .... both the affected zoo frags are from Fuji
whereby i believe the temperature range is pretty big from
season to season.

cheers

[Reef Junkie]

It could possibly be seasonal. Especially considering our tanks are now running cooler.

[bkiba]

Yea everything is back to normal with me, even the untreated guys are back to normal. I lost many polyps but not any colors (very happy about that). Maybe this was like the plaque or something, only killing 1/3 of the population off.

who knows, lets see what happens next year.

[Reef Junkie]

It seems like a disease or something to that effect.
Not a parasite. Possibly a deffiency or maybe an excess?
We should still keep this thread going. A lot of people have this problem and don't know what to do or take bad advice.
Bill

[jmccoya]

I to have found the dreaded white spots on my zoo's today. by the sounds of the posts here i think im just going to do a water change and hang on.

As far as seasonal, i am in ohio and the tempature has been in the 20's for a couple days now....... maybe thats it?? who know??
keep up the good fight fella's!!

[gflat65]

I just noticed several colonies that have it now, but didn't three weeks ago... Some nearby colonies don't have any issues...

[Reef Junkie]

For those of you finding these lesions, please document what you do and if they live or bounce back. Hopefully we'll begin to see a clearer pattern.
So far it seems more people are seeing this as the temperatures are getting cooler in our houses.
Coinsidence?

[gflat65]

Are the infected zoas recovering, or is the spread just stalled? Just wondering if it seems to spread. If so I can lop off a few heads.

[Reef Junkie]

Fragging the colony did not seem to help me. Oh yeah, btw, I fragged one of the colonies.;) Both frags seemed to have the same progression.
They're both now bouncing back and one of the colonies is flourishing again.

[gflat65]

Did you just hit it with water changes, or did you raise the temp, etc.? It's bad enough we have to watch out for all the coral std's out there, but now we have to make sure they don't contract their own newer form of exotic tank made diseases... Do they sell coral prophylactics;)?

[Reef Junkie]

:lmao:
I think this is more like a cancer.
I did some water changes and removed the carbon. Otherwise, not much else. I think my water temp has settled down and that may also play a part.:confused:

[jimsflies]

I'm having a nitrate issue which I believe is contributing to the issue. Nitrates for some reason measured 25ppm....both before and after changing 25% of my tank volume. Perhaps the dying zoos are contributing to the nitrates which turn is causing more to die....or maybe its just coincidence.

[horseflesh]

I had some button polyps with white nodules recently. There were only a couple of them, and the bumps seemed to go away after a couple of weeks. However, I am getting some white crud on most of the polyps now, and they are closed up. I assume it is a fungal infection.

Since I could not find Lugol's I just tried an RO/chlorhexidine dip, since I had it on hand. The polyps are angry now, many are puking their guts up, but hopefully they will pull through. It'll be interesting at any rate. They are cheap plain old green-center buttons so even if I lose them all I won't be heartbroken. I hope the little guys make it though...

[Reef Junkie]

Good luck with those. I think for the most part, zoas with this affliction that are dipped, have a poor track record. It seems that doing nothing except good old maintenance might help.

Btw, got a pic?

Here's something you guys/gals might want to think about...

It's been a while since you've really needed to use the heaters in your tank. Even though they may still work, they are probably covered in all types of encrusting animals and plant life. That can hinder the sensors from working properly. Causing fluxuations in temperature. (bad)

If you get a chance, clean your heaters. A nice vinegar dip for an hour (or a day if you have replacement heaters) will remove just about any encrusting organism.;)
Bill

[jimsflies]

My outbreak seems to be subsiding (of course I lost some of the nicest zoos already). I did several things to try to reverse the spread of the infection. I approached it from the standpoint of reversing conditions that were present now, back to the way they were before the infection started.

First I found that I had elevated nitrates (perhaps from zoos dying off). They where 25 ppm, I now have nitrates back to 7.5 ppm. I did this through 2 major water changes over a weeks time and keeping the neck of the skimmer cup cleaner than I had been.

Second, I bumped the temperature in the tank a couple degrees. I noticed in the past couple months here in Michigan my tank was staying vary steady at 78-80 everyday. Which was different than summer where it would get up to 83, perhaps 84 daily. My theory here is that whatever is infecting the zoos may have a narrow temperature range that it thrives in. By raising the temp, it doesn't multiply as fast or dies off. Seemed to help with the brownish crud that covers the polyps subsequent to the white spots...which ultimately kills the polyps.

Third, I cut my photoperiod back. Toward the end of September when high temps stopped being a concern, I increase the photo period on the halide from 8 to 12 hours. I decided to try reverting back to less light since the tank was doing better back then. I'm actually now around 4 hours, but need to work it back to 8. I bought a couple new yumas that needed to be acclimated to the halides, so it worked out to reduce the photoperiod for the zoos too.

I also performed the iodine dip, the freshwater dip, and even tried adding myacin to the tank. The fw dip actually seemed to make the condition worse, probably by weakening the polyps resistance to the infection through stress. The myacin did appear to help with the white spots, but the brownish crud was still a problem and I still lost several frags/small colonies.

As of now, nothing seems to have the white spots nor the brown crud. A couple zoos in infected areas have actually grown a couple new polyps back.

Hope this info helps someone. Please be sure to post back if it works for you so we all know how to deal with this in the future.

[bkiba]

Everything in my tank was effected (all zoos). Quarantine, lower flow and lower light seemed to work since I didn't lose any specific types of zoo (but I did lose many polyps). I tried everything from FW, iodine, HP, tetracycline on some colonies and none of that seemed to work at all. Quarantine is the best method. I can say hypersalinity may also help since I barley ever topped off my Q bucket. The colonies were in Q for about 2-3 weeks before going back in the display once the spots subsided. No apparent reccurance, every now and then I see one or two spots but I just don't worry about it anymore

[SuperFishy]

these white bumps invaded my zoas.. :( have to take some pics and post then work on getting them cleared up.
dang.

[SuperFishy]

http://www.cvreefers.org/d/21277-1/zoa-infection-2.jpg

[bkiba]

quarantine them, setup a rubbermaid tub with some water if you have too. Check your others too I'm sure you will see them affected too. Good luck.

[SuperFishy]

there's 7 colonies infected with this stuff, but i noticed that none of my protopaly's/palys have not been touched by this infection. only zoanthids that have a grown mat. :( seem to be suffering

[bkiba]

yes I saw the same thing. Like I said - I didn't lose 1 color-type of zos. I tried everything suggested, but the bulk of my infected guys went through iodine/fw dips as often as I could do them (max 1 time a day). The drying method after the FW dip. They also sat in a highly neglected rubbermaid Q tub that surley had HYPERsalinity because I never topped it off more than once or twice in the course of 3 weeks. I used a crappy PH for flow and some low watt CF bulbs for illumination (on a timer). Everything I had I still have, minus the quantity.


Things I tried that I don't think work - Tetracycline dip, hydrgen peroxide dip, picking off the yellowed lesions (they turn yellow after a while and can be removed very easily).

Good luck superfishy - now it is your turn ;)

I'm sure you will come through this ok.

[Reef Junkie]

Tough luck Superfishy.
It's been months now and my colonies are all just about healed of this problem.
I noticed a difference when I did water changes. I also performed a highly difficult procedure that almost most made me bud daughter colonies out my butt.

I didn't touch them once.

It took all the energy in my body, but I kept my hands out of my tank and didn't move them. At one point my wife thought I had telekinesis. Well, I stared at them hard enough that the average passerby would think I was trying to move them with my mind...:wildone:

Have patience with this and don't get too aggressive, nothing good has come from any of us meddling with something we have no idea how to fix yet. bkiba has been one of the most pioneering of us with this problem, aka guinea pig. :lmao: jk;)

BTW, have a happy new year guys and gals!
Bill

[zephyros]

hiya,

k .. some updates.

as mentioned previously, i had 2 frags that had this "decaying"
disease and both are recovering well.

Below is what i've done (but not confirm) was,

1) Both frags were move down to a lower light area.
2) 1 of the frag was dip in Reef Plus Coral conditioner (as per
instruction). I did 1 treatment only.
3) The other frag (more seriously affected) was dipped in FW
with Lugol's sol. Followed by 1 drop of Lugol sol on each affected
area directly. Rinsed the frag in FW below returning to tank. This
frag is also recovering with new ployps growing.

cheers

[Pufferpunk]

I'm so glad I found this thread. Here's my latest problem:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v345/Pufferpunk/55gCorals/SickZoos.jpg
They were growing great--one of my 1st zoos. Then hair algae developed on the rock & now a brown film is covering them. They will not open in that section. I have been picking off the hair algae. What is my next step/s?

[Pufferpunk]

Some of them look as though they have a brown fungus on them & others loook like they have a white fungus. I was thinking of taking a stainless steel brush & scrubbing off all the sick zoos.

[Mr. Ugly]

If the zoos are really fungus-ey, might be best to frag out the bad parts and a little extra with a razor knife. Scrubbing would probably spread the nasties.

Maybe it's just hair algae, cyano, diatoms, and assorted stuff on the zoos? Pluck the hair algae out with tweezers or whatever.

There's info in this forum on peroxide dip and iodine/fw dip.

Take care of those zoos... remember, we're trading :)

Good luck!

[Pufferpunk]

Not to worry, I'm trying to take the best care of your zoos! I'll get a razor & scrape off the bad ones & do a dip on the rest. I didn't think about stuff spreading w/the wire brush.

[Pufferpunk]

Question: is the iodine for parasites & peroxide for fungus? So I should do peroxide?

[popsock]

I took a slightly different approach. I don't know if this sound daft, but I did absolutely nothing. And all the sick zoos are coming back to full health.

[Reef Junkie]

That has been the most effective approach to keeping these afflicted colonies alive.
I imagine some good husbandry would also help; water changes and other misc. cleaning.
Cheers,
Bill

[whodah]

ugh.

that's too hard to do though! (nothing i mean, heh!)

an 8th colony in my tank has come down w/ this... sad - i was just getting ready to do mass fragging for many peeps!! :( :( :(

[whodah]

hey, out of curiosity...

those experiencing this: are you running ozone and/or UV?

ty!

[whodah]

d'oh. hate answering my own questions... shoulda re-read this first!

dcoufal asked on page 2, jimsflies says yes on the UV on page 4 but posts back latter that it didn't seem to help.

anyone running ozone?

[Reef Junkie]

Jeremy,
You're slightly nutz.:wildone:
:lmao:jk

8th colony!? We need a friggin support group here!:love1:

[whodah]

going even nuttier watchin this happen! ;)

[Reef Junkie]

I know man, I know.
How has your temp been in the tank? Has it been stable, even at night? Maybe clean your heaters and test them.
I think temp flux can play a role in this.

[froggiebunbun]

just throwing my 2 cents out there but has anyone tried a for-fish based anti-bacterial treatment like Mela-fix? what are your thoughts on that?

[Reef Junkie]

I never tried it.
Anti-Basterial solutions are always a big scare. Yet, it would be nice to see what kind of results an anti-bacterial solution would bring.

[waytoodeep]

Hey froggie and Reef junkie
Deep here
well im abou thte try anything.This palgue has attack every zoo colony in my tank.I have tried everything and that is my next step.
I cant say more ,but its like a cancer on zoo and it sux.ive lost about 15 to 20 colonies and have 6 more in a holding tank ,dont know what to do ,but wait it out
Ronen
Ronen

[skyedolphan]

GEEZ,, so glad I found this thread I no longer feel like I am going outta my mind..found a couple white dots on some zoas that are in the fragging tank yesterday decided to take a much closer look at my zoas upstairs after dealing with another tank crisis all zoas were open and fine ...this morning lights on looking again my colony of mean greens has white dots on 90% of the polyps pulled them fromt he tank and did a search to come up with this thread after reading thru and with my latest luck in the tank I decided to lugols and FW did then pull any loose polyps off .. well that kinda took the majority of the colony as all the plyps that had these spots just lifted rite off with the tweezers no pulling needed so now they are down inthe frag tank lower light high flow and hoping for the best .between this and loosing my tub blues in yesterdays tank adventures I am really contemplating getting outta my zoa passion:(
when things go wrong with the zoas they are worse than the SPS problems

[whodah]

interesting as my mean greens are being hit hard right now too. and i know one other local reefer that the mean greens were hit hard on.

not drawing any conclusions, just interesting!

[waytoodeep]

Well this thing has taken over my zoos.Have to trash almost all my zoos about 30 colonies,Ihave tried everything.Tetracycline .peroxide dip ,FW lugol(which i think made it worse)Im going to look into other anti fungus sprays,since the zoos are goners trying new things wont do anything wosre then what they already are

[jimsflies]

what's the temp in your tank? I believe that bumping the temp up (~82-degrees) seemed to help it go away. Although I lost some of my nicer zoos, all colonies that are coming back strong now.

[jimsflies]

skyedolphan: I am really contemplating getting outta my zoa passion when things go wrong with the zoas they are worse than the SPS problems

I agree...I've branched out into other types of corals as a result of this incident. (I also lost a lot of $$ worth of pink yumas last month.) I've since added 4 of my first sps and they are kicking butt...its nice to have a little success for awhile. I think when you look at all the issues with zoos (nudis, fungus, bacteria, favorite snack for some crabs and fish, these white spots, and other mysterious maladies that kill them), they are not what I would consider an "easy" coral...or at least not a "sure thing".

[Reef Junkie]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6559148#post6559148 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jimsflies
I think when you look at all the issues with zoos (nudis, fungus, bacteria, favorite snack for some crabs and fish, these white spots, and other mysterious maladies that kill them), they are not what I would consider an "easy" coral...or at least not a "sure thing".

Yep, they are very deceiving.

Honestly, temperature seems to be one of the common denominators here. I think most of us that have had problems earlier live in more temperate regions. For instance, my zoas were affected when temps began to change here in NY around Sept/Oct. Others are seeing the change later and I believe you guys live in less temperate areas.

There are also questions about each persons equipment. For instance, how long since the heaters were cleaned, how many heaters, the wattage of the heaters the proximity of the heaters to the corals...


Jim may be right, it just might be a slight temperature adjustment.

[whodah]

gotta question posed to me: has anyone tried anything like erythormycin?

[jimsflies]

gotta question posed to me: has anyone tried anything like erythormycin?

Yes, I did. Didn't seem to do anything.

[waytoodeep]

has anyone contacted New England Aquarium ,Some told me they might help ,Im going to give them a call in the morning to see if they might give a hand on this,Cant hurt.
Its been 1 week ,about 20 colonies i lost count and nothing is working ,nothing ,I tried one thing ,Athletes foot spary on one of the colonies that was infected ,seem to work better then anything,Im just that beat over this that im not even QTing them if i see the white lesion ,I just toss them in the trash.srry i lost this battle,but not the war.Im going to do other corals after this .over $1500 in zoo down the drain.

[bigfoot610]

I aslo have some zoos with these white spots even my paly 's have it i have 1 colony that was almost completly gone and is making a comeback all i did to them was get them to completly close pullem out then i use a dropper on them and hit them with full strength seachem out of the bottle iodide let them sit for 30 seconds and rinse them in old tank water swish it arond for a couple seconds and put them right back where they were it seems to be working as at first only 3 would open now im up to 30 that open i do have one colony that has this brown crud on them and the iodide gets rid of it for 2 days before it comes back so im still working on that one think i might try a direct applicatition of peroxide to see if that helps

[Reef Junkie]

It was only a matter of time...
Here is a pic of some zoas that were hit hard with this affliction.
They're the sky blue ones in the middle of the pic and they're making a comeback.
I have another frag of them that is larger and healthier, but I cannot get a better pic of them.

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b51/reefphd/DSC02927.jpg

[waytoodeep]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6567159#post6567159 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by bigfoot610
I aslo have some zoos with these white spots even my paly 's have it i have 1 colony that was almost completly gone and is making a comeback all i did to them was get them to completly close pullem out then i use a dropper on them and hit them with full strength seachem out of the bottle iodide let them sit for 30 seconds and rinse them in old tank water swish it arond for a couple seconds and put them right back where they were it seems to be working as at first only 3 would open now im up to 30 that open i do have one colony that has this brown crud on them and the iodide gets rid of it for 2 days before it comes back so im still working on that one think i might try a direct applicatition of peroxide to see if that helps
Ive used peroxide ,One thing i did notice that doin gall this to them is stressing them the hell out ,evenually they will die or not open.All them chemicals have to hurt them in some way
Is there some type of snails that eat that infection off the zoo,Isnt fungus a type of veg or algea ?(just asking not 100% sure about that)what happens in the wild if they get this white lesion if they get them at all their.
If it is (fungus)an algea of veg some cowrie snail should eat that crap ,all thou not reef safe ,it could be put in a QT tank .Just asking ,if im worng plz correct me ,But this killed lots of my zoo and im just trying to get as many ideas as poss with the help of everyone else

[waytoodeep]

ReefJunkie
what are you doing to recover them? how long is it bfore you are seeing any comeback on them ? any info would help
Ive tried tetracycline but didnt help and Lugols ,Peroxide .but nothing is helping them

[waytoodeep]

Reef junkie

I also see a white spot on the colony to the left on the bottom left corner of that pic

[Reef Junkie]

If it's the Orange with the Blue-ish center ones, then that's a sand grain. That colony (knock on wood) never had the affliction.
The sky blue ones still have some white spots, but they've been slowly going away over the last few months. I've been trying my hardest to just ignor them and it seems to be working.;)

[waytoodeep]

cool
i took out all my infected zoo and trashed them .It was to much for me to handle.It seems to have stop the infection in my display tank.so im happy abou that ,lots of WC and poly filters good skimming too .well se what happens in the future,Im i bit sraced not knowing when it will be safe to put more zoo in my tank again,My ppes and some other colonies where not harmed by this ,That really funny thou ,my green zoos got clobbered by it as my others took a flu shot of some sort thk g-d

[Reef Junkie]

It seems Protopaly and palythoa are not really affected by this. Go figure?:confused:

[xia]

Any one here get the zoopox who adds 1-2 drops of iodine daily to their tank? I've done the lugols dip and it helps, but the pox always comes back, but then to help my bleached sps, I started to add iodine daily or every other day, and the zoos seemed to bounce back on their own.
Also before I heard it was bacterial I did Lugols and flatworm exit, and what I saw come out from the eyes looked like blood. When I squashed the really sick ones all this brownish-red juice came out. Just wondering if anyone had the same experience?

BTW my palys have the pox too, they've had it for a few months now. They've never fully recovered, but have never died either, so they're tough little guys.

[loyalty]

i just found some in my tank today. this really sucks

[Reef Junkie]

Xia,
Well, we cannot confirm nor deny whether bacteria are the insulting organism/pathogen causing this. But, as more of us go through this dilemma, more will be revealed.
It also seems that you are the first to report Palythoa with this pox. That is not good. You wouldn't happen to have a pic of the paly's that have been effected?

Loyalty,
There is hope.;)

[xia]

My Palys have actually cleared up a bit so there's no more large white spots, but they still don't open up. But if they get worse again I'll try to take a pic.

[Reef Junkie]

Bummer, are they receding?
I've lost protopalys due to recession, but never the dreaded chicken pox of death. (knock on wood, again)

[MarvinsReef]

what I found to be the best thing to do is leave 'em in a medium flow area.. I had a colony of true blues (about 300+ polyps).. I dd have to break the rock into smaller colonies.. I have three 50+ polyps that are bouncing back from the white spots.. other smaller frags have already fully healed and starting to grow...

I will try to find some pics when they were infected and what they look now..


Marvin

[shane 1111]

i saw some white bumps and panicked. so i took a needle i use fore apistas and scraped the bumps off. then i gave it a triple dose of reef dip for 10 minutes i think. no polyps died. the white dots that went into the dip turned brown. and i scraped them off.
all polyps were open the next day

[whodah]

ok, chalk me up to another one of the 'waited it out' scenarios.

took about 1 month to run it's course in my tank.

killed back ~ 4 mini colonies to frag status (~30 down to ~5 polyps), numerous others mildly effected, 1 complete loss (but it started off w/ only 7 or so polyps going into this mess).

[21Reefman]

Man Who Dah, Sorry to hear about your losses :( I hope the worst is over and they recover quickly for you!!
As a reefer who has mostly SPS and LPS experience, all of these issues that plague zoa's are very intriguing.

I have been adding zoa's to an all SPS (and mushrooms, only because I can't get rid of them) tank. A very heavily PACKED SPS tank.
Are there any warnings you have for someone adding zoa's to a system of SPS/LPS?

[Brock Fluharty]

I also have these spots, and I am running T5's. I just noticed them the other day, and all of my zoas are closed up now...

[shane 1111]

the white poxs are spreading in my tank :(

[bkiba]

water changes and patience is all that seems to work for now. I still have a few in my tank with the spots, but it doesn't seem to effect them anymore.

hang in there :D

[shane 1111]

it seems to form large patches between the polyps. i used a needle and scraped it off. the spots are filled with a white pus

[Reef Junkie]

Be careful shane, most of the others that scraped them off all had the same results. The animals died.
Like bkiba said, time and maintenance seems to be the only real solution for now.

[bkiba]

yes, i think of everyone here, I've tried the most different things and had no success at eliminating these bumps. I've dipped in iodine, tetracycline, FW, Hydrogen peroxide, let dry in air, scraped off the bumps; and all to no avail. It seems the colonies can live with the bumps and eventually they go away. I've killed of at least one colony (60-70 polyps) by overtreating. Let it run its course for now, do some extra water changes and see what happens.

[shane 1111]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6843768#post6843768 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Reef Junkie
Be careful shane, most of the others that scraped them off all had the same results. The animals died.
Like bkiba said, time and maintenance seems to be the only real solution for now.

i haven't lost any to scraping i only scrap the affected areas. so not much damage is done to the polyp. i use the tip of a needle not a razer blade.

[Reef Junkie]

Shane,
Take it from bkiba, removing the lesions is not a good idea.
I think a lot of times removing the bumps can cause an infection by opening up the animals outter tissue.

So removing the bumps doesn't seem to help; the bumps keep coming back.

If you have pics, post them. Keep posting progress of your colonies.;)

[shane 1111]

on a few i scraped all signs of the bumps off and they have not come back and it has ben a week

[Reef Junkie]

So far so good. Just watch them. Usually it takes months for these bumps to go away.;)

[shane 1111]

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b315/smeltz/IMG_5360.jpg
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b315/smeltz/IMG_5359.jpg
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b315/smeltz/IMG_5356.jpg
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b315/smeltz/IMG_5352.jpg

[Reef Junkie]

Ouch! They got em bad!
Are these before or after scraping?

I had a colony that looked like that. I'll try to get a pic of them after they bounced back.

[shane 1111]

there was way to many to try to scrape them. i left it alone it is still going down hill

[Reef Junkie]

Yeah, I know man. It is so frustrating watching them fade like that. It's like you're helpless.
Try doing a water change and if you're using any chemical media (Cabon, phosguard...) remove it. Then watch the colony over the next week or two. Don't let your tank go to hell, but keep an eye on the colony and your water quality.

I also found by simply moving the afflicted colony to a new location in the tank can help. So long as the spot was different (Water flow, lighting, temp). I say temp because the colony that bounced back was moved downstream from the heater in my tank.

Keep posting any developments, questions or comments.

Bill

[waytoodeep]

I took out all my infected Zoos .It seems most of the green ones got it worse then the rest of my zoos..
after a few months with the infected zoos out of my tank ,everything went back to normal .I can add new zoos without them getting infected
Good luck to everyone .I know its fustrating
But if you can take out your infected zoos and put them in a different tank ,Do lots of WC you should be fine ,that just my experiance hope it works out for you guys

[bkiba]

to me this disease is like chicken pox. It is pretty bad and you really want to itch them, but it just makes things worse. The only treatment I'd recommend is quarantine, but other than that there isn't much that seems to work. Trust me. I started this thread back in October '05 and I'm now zoo pox free. I took one colony and put it through hell (and lost it). I used the lugols, FW, hydrogen peroxide, tetracycline, air drying, low light, low flow, high flow, and vigorous scrubbing and scraping. Nothing worked. General good practices, water changes and keeping your hands out of the tank seem to work well. There is a good chance you will lose a zoo morph or two, but you should come out generally unscathed. This is truley a test of patience. Good luck.

[Reef Junkie]

Amen Brother!

[waytoodeep]

I feel you guys.I stated a pages ago ,I lost about 30 or so poylps of safecrackers ,RPE ,PPE and lots more .One thing I did notice ,the more i played (threated)m zoo the worse they got.
Only thing i can say.The less stress you put them through the faster they will heal.JMO
Ive tried every thing in the book ,and saw them just melt away ,Some of my colonies that suvived the poxs are doing well.

Good luck ,I really wish we had an answer ,But the best solution I found was to do nothing but QT .

[bkiba]

way too deep. I actually had no issues with any of my palys or protopalys, only zoanthids seemed affected. You may have had something else affecting the RPE and PPE. Hopefully I don't get that affliction. My RPEs survived scot free and only a few other colonies of protos and palys were totally unaffected. All of my other frags/colonies of zoanthids had some affection

[sn8kbit]

An interesting observation:

First of the week, my colony of mean greens had a large number of them covered with white spots/bumps and closed. We've had some dang strange weather here in Mid-TN lately, and the day before, the AC was on, along with an outside temp drop. Tank dropped to 78 degrees from it's normal 81 (I'm not yet running a chiller). I turned the AC off, and fan, and within an hour and a half or so, the tank jumped to 84.7 degrees, then was 78 again by morning. Next morning, bam, white spots all over my MG's.

I read through this thread, decided to start doing only water changes, and maintain a bit higher tank temp (83). I changed 15 gallons out, next day 5, next day 5, and then another 5. Kept the tank temp up at 83 the entire time. All of my MG's are open now, and when closed, most of the white spots/bumps are gone. I don't know if the temp swing stressed them, or that I lost (realized yesterday) my flame scallop at some time over the last week or so (bugger liked to hide in the back, to not see him often was not odd), or a combination of both.

I don't have current water parameters, I fed normally, and added alk buffer once this week. All water changes, and top off water are RO/DI.

A guess on a "help", not cure, would be higher temps and small daily water changes. Worked on my end, so far, I've lost no polyps in the colony, and there's no spread at all to the others.

[jimsflies]

My ppes and other palys were not hit by the white bumps either. [knock on wood]

[shane 1111]

i give up on them. i cant do what is needed to save them. i am going on vacation for a week soon. i bet i will louse a lot of zoas by time i come back. zoas are pretty but they have way to many problems i am just going to stick with protos and plays.

has any one contacted Eric B on this? if i wanted to preserve a sample how would i do it?
i want to see if i can send a sample to Eric B to see what he thinks.
he is pretty much the only one that studies coral disease in depth.

[Reef Junkie]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7141459#post7141459 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by sn8kbit
An interesting observation:

First of the week, my colony of mean greens had a large number of them covered with white spots/bumps and closed. We've had some dang strange weather here in Mid-TN lately, and the day before, the AC was on, along with an outside temp drop. Tank dropped to 78 degrees from it's normal 81 (I'm not yet running a chiller). I turned the AC off, and fan, and within an hour and a half or so, the tank jumped to 84.7 degrees, then was 78 again by morning. Next morning, bam, white spots all over my MG's.

I read through this thread, decided to start doing only water changes, and maintain a bit higher tank temp (83). I changed 15 gallons out, next day 5, next day 5, and then another 5. Kept the tank temp up at 83 the entire time. All of my MG's are open now, and when closed, most of the white spots/bumps are gone. I don't know if the temp swing stressed them, or that I lost (realized yesterday) my flame scallop at some time over the last week or so (bugger liked to hide in the back, to not see him often was not odd), or a combination of both.

I don't have current water parameters, I fed normally, and added alk buffer once this week. All water changes, and top off water are RO/DI.

A guess on a "help", not cure, would be higher temps and small daily water changes. Worked on my end, so far, I've lost no polyps in the colony, and there's no spread at all to the others.

Nice!:)
It's not definitve proof, but I also believe that temperature plays some role in this disease.

I still have two colonies that have had the pox since Sept 05. They're just maintaining, not getting worse or better.

Shane,
It would be nice to have Eric give his opinion. It would also be nice to see him suck it up and come back to this message board. I hear the other board where all those experts went to stinks.

[shane 1111]

yes but they do this for free. it gets stressful and people on this site can be ignorant.

[Reef Junkie]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7155788#post7155788 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by shane 1111
yes but they do this for free. it gets stressful and people on this site can be ignorant.

Who does what for free?

[shane 1111]

Eric B used to help people out for free hear.

[Reef Junkie]

Well, bud, it's a long story, but nothing is free.
That includes Erics free advice.;)

[sn8kbit]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7155271#post7155271 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Reef Junkie
Nice!:)
It's not definitve proof, but I also believe that temperature plays some role in this disease.

I still have two colonies that have had the pox since Sept 05. They're just maintaining, not getting worse or better.



Oh, I know it's not definitive. I do, however, think it's an aid in control over a complete wipe-out.

Since the original post, the large area of "spots" has decreased, not altogether gone, and those affected are opening, albeit much smaller than before. There are a couple that spend more time closed than open, and those were the ones worst affected. Tank temps over this small time period have been maintained at 82 (.3 .5) during the day, and 80 at night. The temps haven't affected any of the other corals, SPS, LPS, shrooms, ect. None of my other colonies has been affected at all (thank goodness!). I've also gone to 5 gallon water changes every 2 1/2 to 3 days instead of daily 5's.

[Reef Junkie]

I know what you mean. It's effing perplexing how strange this pox is.
I no longer believe that zoas are an easy coral to keep. I think they're just as difficult to keep as SPS, even harder sometimes.
Except when it comes to ugly zoas, they never die.:rolleyes:

About 3 days ago I put a Mag7 in my reef to help increase my circulation. It's amazing how a years growth can reduce flow in your reef. I'm already seeing better expansion from my zoas.

I wonder if my Piercing blues will finally make a comeback, I only have 2 frags of this coral left.
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b51/reefphd/TealSunshine.jpg

[ReefWifey]

Hrrmph. I noticed today when I got home from work that my pinks were totally closed, very unsual for them. When I did my water change tonight I noticed there are 2-3 white spots on them. Not a great pic, but here they are:

http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/500/110526pinks_unhappy.jpg

I pulled them out to have a closer look, they arn't eggs and they can't be picked off. They look like pus kinda. So you think these are the pox or fungus stuff?

Kam :(

[Reef Junkie]

Kam, you should get a better pic.
Those look like protopaly's or palythoa. They seem to either not get the pox or be very resillient to it.
Plus, protopalys and palythoa both have sand grains imbedded just below their outer layers. could it be sand grains?
Bill

[ReefWifey]

Hey Deuce,

Okay, here they are today:
http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/500/110526pinks1.jpg

And here they are out of water:
http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/500/110526Pinks2.jpg

See that kinda pus or ulcer looking part on the left? Is it sand...well, I poked at it a bit with tweezers and it didn't break, are you saying sand could be under there and irritating it? There is another small ulcer on the front edge, on a baby polyp.

So these are protopalys or palythoa? I figured there were different than my other kinds cuz they're so close in a thick mat.

What do you think I should do with them?

Also, here's my RPE's looking shrunk and closed. Its hard to see in the pic, but a few of the polps are closed and kinda....pointy looking on the end, and hollowish. :(

http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/500/110526RPE1.jpg

Kam

[Reef Junkie]

Kam,
Deuce here, I think they're palythoa, I don't really know for sure, but that really doesn't even matter at this point.

Have you done any water changes, changed their position in the tank so they get higher/lower flow and or light?
Sometimes they are being irritated and that causes them to close, inspect closely for hydroids. Have you recently added any filter media, phosguard, carbon or poly pads?

I do see that one yellowish white spot on the outter rim of that one polyp. Keep your eye on that. Post if it spreads more.

FYI, Protopalythoa and palythoa both have sand imbedded in their outter tissue. It is normal, but I have no idea what function it serves or how it gets there. Maybe it's ingested and helps support/protect the animal? At this point I doubt it has any role in the problem you're having.

I have seen paly (using the term loosely) with that type of polyp formation. It seems to happen when they are spreading. I've also seen where the polyps will pinch at the base. This seems to be some sort of mechanism for spreading too. As the polyps eventually fall off the mother colony and land somewhere else in the tank.

I just yanked a bunch from a peach colored Protopaly colony I fragged. They just popped off.

Anyway, keep taking pictures and post any changes you observe.

Cheers,
Deuce ;)

[bkiba]

I had some thoughts on our mutual issue here. After my zoa pox outbreak went away I had a surge in asterina. Does anyone else who has survived this mess have a healthy asterina population?

I notice these guys sucking on to zoas every now and then, could it be that they ate the pox off?

just a thought

[Reef Junkie]

Guess what? I had the same thing.
They're everywhere now.
But I haven't found any of them on my corals.

Bill

[oceana]

So far I've been lucky any I havn't had any issues with this, and I know that people have tried penicillin to treat this , but has anyone tried any antifungals instead of or in addition to the PCN?

[bkiba]

i used tetracycline but that didn't work

[Reef Junkie]

Knock on wood with all the zoas you have!:eek1:

[ReefWifey]

Hey all, thanks for the support. Deuce, whats a hydroid? Nothing has changed lately, postion, lighting, carbon. I did a water change last night, but they were already that way at that point. I do water changes every week. It looks about the same tonight.

I'll prolly take them out tomorrow and do something with it, perhaps cut out the white spot let it soak a bit in iodine. It looks just like...hmm...ya ever get a cankor sore in our mouth? Grin...maybe I'll make a scientific break through by putting treating it with cortaziod or something.

Sigh, thanks for the help guys, I'll post tomorrow, and pics if anything changes.

[Reef Junkie]

For the love of god, please do not cut out that white spot! That only kills the polyp. I think all of us have tried that with no success.:eek1:

Hydroids are closely related to Jellyfish and if you dive or snorkle in warm waters then you know about Fire Coral.
The Hydroids that are most commonly found in our aquariums are very small and sometimes hard to see.
Here is an example of a very common Hydroid in aquariums.
http://www.sodwanadiving.co.za/Hydroid_big.jpg

This next Hydroid is usually very difficult to see and typically kills polyps around it without it ever being noticed. In the picture they are very noticable, but these Hydroids have a trick, they can retract in the wink of an eye. Which makes removal especially a PITA! These are almost as annoying as aiptasia!
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b51/reefphd/Hydroid.jpg

If you want to learn a lot about Hydroids, read this article.
http://www.reefs.org/library/aquarium_net/1097/1097_2.html

[ReefWifey]

Darn Critters.

Okay, does this look like a hydroid:

http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/500/110526orangething2.jpg

http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/500/110526orangething.jpg

This one is really unfocused, but when I moved the rock above it, all the little tentcle things kinda curled up into a little mass like so:
http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/500/110526orangething3.jpg

I've seen it before, well, not all of it, but ive seen those stringy looking tentacles sticking out from a polyp colony, I remember thinking, 'Zoas don't have sweepers, do they?' Then I thought spagetti worms. I dipped the peice, in fresh water though, no lugols (hydroids can survive fresh water aparently), and then just kind of dropped it cuz I hadn't seen it much.

So, I tried to turkey baster suck the heck of it, and its wedged in that rock. Should I pull the rock and dip it in something? There are no zoas actually growing on that particular rock.

Thanks!
Kam

[Reef Junkie]

If this Spaghetti worm isn't touching the zoas, then leave it. They are very beneficial.
If you can get it into the sand (if you have sand) then do it. They work best in sand beds.;)

[ReefWifey]

I dunno if its a spagetti worm or a hydroid. It is suspically the same color as the zoas that were sitting above it. Its definately rooted in that rock. Hrrrm. Do either spagetti worms or hydroids eat zoas or hurt them? I remember reading that spagetti worm tentacles can wrap around zoas polps and kinda strangle them.

[bkiba]

Wifey - I don't think spag worms can harm zoas. The hydroids may sting them, but they don't reach very far.

[Reef Junkie]

Yep, like bkiba said, they (Spaghetti Worms) won't harm zoas, but they can irritate them. Sometimes enough to cause them to close and even sometimes recede.

[oceana]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7227827#post7227827 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by bkiba
i used tetracycline but that didn't work


interesting, but that's still an antibiotic I was thinking along the lines of fluconazole or sporonox, maybe nystatin-
I wonder if there are any md's or vets (someone w/access to that stuff) in the hobby that have tried anything else on thier zoas- It just seems like we would have more luck with one of those.
I haven't looked to see what's available in that class in the hobby yet, I'm gonna check around though because I am really curious.

[Pufferpunk]

they (Spaghetti Worms) won't harm zoas, but they can irritate them. Sometimes enough to cause them to close and even sometimes recede.

That's exactally what's happening to my zoas! They close up & then disappear completely. I know I have those worms, cause I've seen them. How do i get rid of them?

[ReefWifey]

Pufferpunk, I'd like to hear how to get rid of them as well. Beneficial as they may be, I've got one with really long tentacles in part of my base rock that is a prime Zoa area. Little critter gets it tentacles all in my zoas, grumble. I've tried suctioning the heck out of it trying to get it out of its little cranny, no luck.

My guesses for getting rid of them are either shoot it up with Joe's juice or kalk, dip it in iodine and/or flatworm exit. I'd be happy to leave the little suckers if they wern't encroaching my my zoas.

[Reef Junkie]

The most effective way I've found to remove critters like these Spaghetti worms, is to entomb them in superglue.

Or, get yourself a really long straw and stick it the water, holding the top end of it closed with your finger. Then, when you're on top of the worm, just wedge the straw into it's hole and start sucking. Not only is it effective, it's nutritious too! Oh, and wrap your ankles with aluminum foil. That helps prevent them from communicating with their mother ship when they have taken up partial residence in your small intestines.

Follow?











:lmao:

[bkiba]

Just smash their little tubes if they get in the way. That isn't too hard.

[ReefWifey]

:(

Just updating on my pink zoas who as of last week were closing and had 2 white bumps. Tonight they have more like 8-10. Picture isn't that great, but:

http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/500/110526pinks_worse.jpg

I've moved them to a seperate tank, and none of my other zoas have any bumps. My RPEs are still closed and grumpy, but no signs of bumps.

Kam

[waytoodeep]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7227601#post7227601 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by bkiba
I had some thoughts on our mutual issue here. After my zoa pox outbreak went away I had a surge in asterina. Does anyone else who has survived this mess have a healthy asterina population?

I notice these guys sucking on to zoas every now and then, could it be that they ate the pox off?

just a thought

and i thought i was crazy LOL where did they come from im asking myself ,have tons and tons of them all over the place

really interesting

[Ken-21]

Reef junkie. Is that picture under your name a pic of your zoos?

[Reef Junkie]

Ken,
Yes, I love these protopalys.
They grow like a weed and hopefully will survive the move. So far so good.

[froggiebunbun]

sigh... i think i got them too

What to do? Have we figured out what these are? Bacteria or bugs or what?

http://www.manhattanreefs.com/gallery/files/9/0/4/IMG_2097_536041.JPG
http://www.manhattanreefs.com/gallery/files/9/0/4/IMG_2096_683227.JPG

[ReefWifey]

What kind of light do you have them under, and are they close to they light? Try moving them in the shaded area you can and giving them good flow, that seems to have helped mine. Yours look a bit differen then mine, almost like they could scrap off? Are they hard, and curled looking at all? Those ones in the forefront of the pic almost look like nudi eggs to me.

[otterpop510]

damn, think i got the pox too.. zoas been going great in my tank for months, then last couple days notice some white dots and seemed that zoas were closing up. thought perhaps nudi eggs, started fw/iodine dipping, then noticed that they seemed like 'pus' lesions, normally white/yellowish.

thought initially that they were fungus, started 'popping' a few of them. then thought better and checked here, glad i did. just read through this entire thread, think i'm going to qt them and see what happens.. sucks..

should i even bother to qt or just leave in my main tank? i will remove my carbon/phosban and up my water changes.. my temps are pretty stable at higher (around 82 day, 80 night), i think people said that may help. any other ideas? thanks in advance..

[psless]

http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/500/120319deter4.jpg


My zoo colony has something simular to what you guys have had. Take a look at this pic and let me know what you think this leasion on the side of my zoos is.

[giantxtc]

Now I have to tag along because sadly I have this now too.It was introduced from 1 of 2 frags I added to my tank.The frag that I believe it started from completely melted away within a week after showing signs.Now my frag of yellow,yes yellow,zoas has it too.I have never seen or heard of this before,so I checked this forum.

I did find some small diamond shaped "bugs" on the colony that I have never seen before too.They were about a 1/4 size of a pinhead,and had a hard exoskeleton.I have no idea if these were related to my problem or not.But,whatever the infection is,it spreads rapidly.The colony with the problem now showed no signs a few days ago.

I run a chiller and keep my tank at 79-80.I run 2x 250w 14k halides with 220w vho supplimental lighting.I keep sps,lps,and softies.Also fish and inverts that are disease free and thriving.

Water paramaters:
Cal 400
Mag 1325
dKh 6.7
Alk 2.40
Phos 0
Nitrates and Nitrites nil
ph 8.2
Sg 1.025

[Reef Junkie]

I am unsure if you have the same problem, but I can tell you that my zoas contracted the problem on their own. In otherwords, no new animals were put in the tank prior to the affliction.

You might have a predator on your hands and a dip might be prudent.
Here's a good link to dipping.
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=451720

[giantxtc]

Well,it could just be a coincedence that I noticed the spots after I introduced the new frags.I have been pretty busy trying to open a restaurant,so I have not paid alot of attention to my stuff lately.

I have tried dipping too,no change.So,I am just going to see what happens by letting things run it's course.That is,unless someone finds a cure.

[fishgurl35]

I've worked in the LFS for 4 years now. We have recently found a large quantity of these white spots. They spread so quickly throughout our systems that we lost a great deal.

To try and help with the problem, I offer the specs on our tanks and a few comments.

Na - 0
Ni - 0
PH - 8.1 - 8.4
Am - 0
Sal - 1.024, 1.025
Calcium 420 - 450


Some people feel that lighting has something to do with it. I do not as we had zoos in MH, PC, and VHO tanks that all got the "disease". Several, but not all, of these systems have a UV sterilizer. We tried several dips, cutting off the infected zoos, air drying. None of which helped. Because of the rapid spread, we have removed any and all zoos that we found with any spots. It still shows up on other zoos. What a nightmare.

Two other things I noticed....One - The white spots were found on a cabbage leather coral also. It took over and killed it in a matter of days. (It was a large colony) Please check all your soft corals as this may be a contagious disease to some of them as well. Two - all the zoos that get infected seem to be the same kind and color. (The picture posted by psless are the same type we found them on first.) The spots then move on to attack other colonies. Is it possible that the infected zoos are coming from the same distributor or region?

[Reef Junkie]

Thanks for the input fishgurl.:)

This is sounding more and more like some sort of deficiency.

I know I mentioned it in an earlier post on this thread, but I believe it's almost a problem like early Sailors had with Scurvy.
A lack of vitamin C. (I'm not saying we need to start adding Vitamin C, but I'm sure it wouldn't hurt)

It would be interesting to see a chemical composition of tank water from an afflicted tank as compared to a non afflicted tank.
Because a majority of aquarists have found a turn around with the "disease" after preforming water changes.

There also seems to be a correlation with the use of carbon and the disease appearing.

So it's is plausable that the carbon is stripping out something from the water causing the problem. It could be a light problem too. Cleaning the water quickly causing the animals to react in this way. Maybe it's a secondary response instead of bleaching?

Maybe it's like Julian Sprung mentioned about corralimorpharians. A super hydroxide buildup in the tssue from a lack of iodine?

Whatever it is. Water changes seem to help.

[fishgurl35]

I hope someone figures it out soon. The LFS where I work performs weekly water changes. I can attest to this because I am the one who does it. Water quality is not an issue. All the tanks are kept to the specs listed in the first post. We add Tech-I bi-weekly as well as all other additives. IE calcium, strontium, magnesium, etc. None of the tanks use carbon as part of the filtration.

This is what has us pulling out our hair trying to figure it out. The infected tanks and healthy tanks are all running with the same specs. There are lights of all kinds on both the healthy and unhealthy tanks. There isn't an "unhealthy" tank that got the disease while the "healthy" ones were spared. All t

[fishgurl35]

I hope someone figures it out soon. The LFS where I work performs weekly water changes. I can attest to this because I am the one who does it. Water quality is not an issue. All the tanks are kept to the specs listed in the first post. We add Tech-I bi-weekly as well as all other additives. IE calcium, strontium, magnesium, etc. None of the tanks use carbon as part of the filtration.

This is what has us pulling out our hair trying to figure it out. The infected tanks and healthy tanks are all running with the same specs. There are lights of all kinds on both the healthy and unhealthy tanks. There isn't an "unhealthy" tank that got the disease while the "healthy" ones were spared. All tanks were healthy before these white spotted gremlins show up. The only common denominator that we have found so far is the place where the zoos originated.

Good luck to all. Keep posting suggestions. We're bound to figure it out eventually. :)

[Reef Junkie]

A pathogen?:confused:

I don't think the missing link is a water parameter or test that people would normally test for.
ie. Iodine.

As far as water quality is concerned, you're talking about a huge Fish store system, not a small system like ours at home. Unless each tank is segregated from the rest? So you may have to do more and more frequently.

Try increasing your water changes to bi-weekly.
Again, most of us that have had this problem have seen a turn around with water changes.
How about trying a different salt?

[fishgurl35]

At this point, anything is worth a try. We have used the same salt brand for as many years as I have worked there. The systems ARE seperate from one another. While they are larger than most home systems, none of them is larger than 250g. It can't hurt to increase the number of water changes. All the zoos are catching this disease and then dying. Oy. Looks like water changes are on the schedule for me tomorrow. :)

[giantxtc]

Since recently noticing this in my tank,I tried dipping like I mentioned before.I have since just let it go and wait it out.It moves from colony to colony,but knock on wood has not affected my Palythoas for some reason.From the 20 or so polyps on my yellows,about a half dozen look like they might make it.But,they still lokk pretty crappy.

[giantxtc]

Update!Well,I have finally begun to think the stuff is slowly going away on its own.None of the newer colonies I have are showing any signs of the spots.And,the others that died away are slowly coming back.

I also have come up with a far fetched theory too.What if aot of bacteria has been introduced into the ocean in the areas where the Zoas are/were collected?I mean,say after the Sunami alot of stuff could have washed back into the water causing a pollution bloom.We now have mad cow disease and flesh eating bacteria,why not some sort of "new " infection in the corals?How it could be introduced into aquariums that have no new additions is a mystery though.

[FishNutzBoi]

Im having the same problem. Wish u guys luck on finding a cure soon or our zoos are doomed :'(

[Reef Junkie]

It's possible that it is bacterial. It could be anything, but it's more likely a buildup of "someting" that the animals are trying to get rid of. (?) Toxins, bacteria, adolescence...

[milkshake]

Anyone one here running ozone that has this problem?

[sdasc]

I thought that I had posted a new thread on this subject ..... but I don't see it ..... I have this problem also .... I will post again, show pic and explain why I say flatworms .... if anyone is interested. Get & use Flatworm Exit.

[sdasc]

This one is the worst .... maybe the one that brought them into my tanks, most other polyps just has white dots of various size's - I have tried tons of different things over the past month. These worms embed themselves under the flesh and eat away until they kill them .... some, you can pick right off, but you need a heavy duty magnifier or a microscope to see these critters!

I also think that when then do embed themselves, it does cause infection so the iodine does help them a lot. I have tried everything .... I have been at this for a month! The only way that I know to even have a chance of getting rid of them ( damsels & inverts don't really get it .. I tried that too) is to open the white bumps, get out as much as possible, dip them in a iodine bath for 10 minutes and put them in a tank by themselves.

Treat the reef with with this NEW stuff called flatworm exit.

This is where I'm at ... I have done my surgery - iodine painted on wounds and then dipped in a iodine bath for 10 minutes, dipped in saltwater to rinse off iodine before placing back into the tank. They are open now ... a little wounded, but open and they will be fine for a few days until the little buggers climb back on!! I have the Flatworm Exit on order ... when it gets here - I hope to scurry them out of my 4 tanks!!!If you plan on using this Flatworm exit - please go to a site that explains how to use it and make sure that you have the time to use it before you start. Others has used this stuff and are now free of these pests and it does not hurt your other corals or inverts.
(IMG)http://homepage.mac.com/sdascher/Sites/Pics/DSCN0029.JPG(IMG)

[Reef Junkie]

Zoanthid eating flatworms? That's a new one.
Have you actually pulled one of these flatworms out of a zoanthid and do you happen to have a picture? I'd love to see this.

Careful with flatworm exit, you can crash your tank with it.
The rise in dead decaying matter (dead flatworms) can cause an ammonia spike. So be ready to run mechanical filtration.
Some of the best remedies for common problems have adverse side effacts, so again, be careful!!!

[sdasc]

Will do - I always run a skimmer, I will have the carbon out for treatment, but I will have a standby mechanical with reef carbon to throw on immediately and a couple buckets of ready water to make a quick water change. I may go with the route of making a dip with FW exit and dipping one rock at a time - making another bucket of water to dip into before returning to the tank. I may have to do this a few times to get them all. Actually - they are on most of my corals also, but for some reason, more on the fleshy polyps. No I don't have a pic of them, they are too small, but I think that the bumps are infection from FW's eating on them maybe??? Maybe these are a huge breakout of tiny white semi flat nudibranches. I have seen the (tiny flatworms?) on, under, on top of the polyps, and on the infected bumps using a eye loop and I know that in a couple of cases, out came one with the goo when I have cut them open, but then again - so did a co-pod! I think that if it wasn't for the regular dippings, a lot of the zoos would be dead by now. I only have a little bit of a lost so far, but I dip every other day or so. The iodine was mainly for the infection.
You know what is so weird about this is that 3 to 4 years ago I had a breakout of FW's, and I just used a small tube at night and sucked them all out. I could see them on the glass at night. Between the mandarin & me, we took care of them in a few weeks. I will treat a 55g tank that doesn't have that much in it first ... to see how everything goes.

[Reef Junkie]

Well, good luck with that and be sure to post your findings.

Honestly, this would be the first time I heard of flat worms eating zoanthids, but anything is possible.

Just be careful cutting your corals. They are stressed enough already, an infection from a cut could cause the entire colony to get wiped out.

Myself and others here, have found patience and water changes helped a lot. Even reversed the malady altogether.

Just do yourself a favor, try not to think too hard on this. It's maddening!:wildone:

[sdasc]

OK - Sure will. I really do understand the effects of chemicals. I have spent countless hours chatting with people from different forums ... also with a marine dr. or 2 and I was somewhat amazed that not too many people had any ideas on this. I love my reefs ... I also have 2 farming tanks just full of frags and .... 1/4 of them are lightly touched, so I have to resolve this soon .... I stand to loose some rare polyps and more importantly, corals & polyps that I have grown from just just babies or one or two over the years if I don't!!! Wish me luck - I will keep this thread updated! With a pic or two also. :o)

[Reef Junkie]

Before you do anything to your rare corals, just try to do some water changes.
Also, if you're running carbon, remove it. That also seems to have some connection with the appearance of these bumps.

[sdasc]

OK - I will try it - I just did water changes in all 4 tanks this past Monday & all refugiums looks good ... I maybe will do another this week-end. I am running about one cup of reef carbon in the 75g and around 1/4 cup in both 55's and a tiny bit in the nano - 125 isn't set up yet ....

[Reef Junkie]

Try removing the carbon altogether.

[sdasc]

OK - I will ......

[Reef Junkie]

Did you do it yet!?
:lol: jk
Sorry man, when I read your comment above, I thought you meant that you have a little carbon in and was going to leave it in.
My bad.:rolleyes:

[sdasc]

Only on 2 tanks ... I am working a poerhead failure at the moment ... rubber tip tore ... darn it!!

[sdasc]

All done ... now I will wait & see.....

[Reef Junkie]

Hey, have you been taking pictures of this?
If not, you should start. I'd love to see them when they're open and growing again.

[sdasc]

No ..... but I will take a couple shots today. The pic that I have on this thread ... those polyps never did close, I had to disturb them to get that pic, however .... I do have those that are withering away that has closed polyps on them and hasn't been open for weeks. I also had red PPE's that had around 8- 10 polyps on them that is totally gone to polyp heaven. Also ... I gave my son some of the rare polyps to grow in his tank so that if for any reason, mine crashes, I won't loose them.

[milkshake]

Has anyone (or a few of you) tried Mucho's remedy from page 1 on this thread? If so, how's it going? I'm about to do that remedy as I have 3 or 4 colonies infected. A few polyps have withered away. I think that I am going to wait till the MH goes off and leave it off for the next couple of days. I will just run the two 75W actinic vho's that are blue3. Hopefully this will limit the stress while they are getting well. I would like to see this thread keep on going until everyone knows for a fact that a certain remedy is reached. My main tank is a 40 gallon, so staying on top of things is a must. By the way, has any of you ever tried praying for your corals?

[sdasc]

Well Milkshake - If you do this remedy, please post the results as my results of no carbon, extra water changes ... shows no results as of yet, but I will be patient. I did however remove mine once again and scrap off more white spots that I missed the first time or has just grown back .... dipped them in a iodine dip and are now back in the tank......lost a few more zoo's this week. Most of mine have stayed open from the beginning. I have to disturb them to get pics of the infection. Of corse their are some that are not opening at all and some that I have already lost. Believe me Milkshake - I pray for everything moving & alive in my house as I can be a crazed lunatic at times! Reefs will do that to you!

[deep6er]

I have noticed in my tank that this bacteria does not efect palys.

[giantxtc]

Me too.I think the toxins in the palys are too much for whatever the cause is.

[Reef Junkie]

Guys, listen...
If you have a colony of zoas with these white bumps and they are not dieing or you have to make them close to see the bumps, leave them alone.

If it ain't broke...

[sdasc]

The thing is ..... some colony's are open and doing well so far with the bumps ... others that have had them longer ... are closing never to open again & dieing. The white bumps is spreading from colony to colony. That is why I just removed all of the colonys that had them ... well & not well from the main reefs. Also - I have been continiously removing these colonys, one at a time every week & removing the white bumps and I do see an improvement. The polyps that has closed, I have never seen reopen, but the others are perking up a bit, Not much, but some!!
Could be with the removal from others & the extra water changes along with no carbon, more water flow ... the combination is maybe working?? We will see.

[Reef Junkie]

Well, when I had this problem, I increased flow, did water changes, removed carbon. That and time seemed to be the only remedy. The afflicted colonies not only came back, some grew like wild.

I also tried most of the other remedies listed in this thread. Dipping and leaving them out for hours only made them close up for a long time.

Scraping the bumps off caused the zoa polyps to eventually die.

That was my experience, you be the judge.;)

[jessiesgrrl]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7697745#post7697745 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by milkshake
Has anyone (or a few of you) tried Mucho's remedy from page 1 on this thread? If so, how's it going? I'm about to do that remedy as I have 3 or 4 colonies infected. A few polyps have withered away. I think that I am going to wait till the MH goes off and leave it off for the next couple of days. I will just run the two 75W actinic vho's that are blue3. Hopefully this will limit the stress while they are getting well. I would like to see this thread keep on going until everyone knows for a fact that a certain remedy is reached. My main tank is a 40 gallon, so staying on top of things is a must. By the way, has any of you ever tried praying for your corals?

I pray for any situation I feel powerless in (Terrifying for a Type A personality)... has always seemed to be a win/win to me.

:)
Laurie

[milkshake]

That's right Laurie...you CAN'T lose.

[deep6er]

I am begining to think that flow has alot to do with cureing it.. My zoa's that have always had good water flow have never goten sick but the ones that are tucked away somewere tend to get It more often. But I could be wrong. I think i need to buy more pumps

[milkshake]

I have noticed for the past several days that some of the ones that had it dont anymore. Now there are some that did not have it and showing signs of it. Very strange stuff. I think I am going to order one of those modified MJ900's and see if it is a flow problem. I've been wanting one anyway.

[Reef Junkie]

Food for thought...

As time goes on, your reef grows and constricts/changes original flow patterns.

Plus, if you don't clean your Powerheads with vinegar at least every 6 months, you're really restricting the amount of flow through your tank.

[milkshake]

Yeah, I just cleaned one here about 2 weeks ago. Its amazing how much crud builds up inside them.