Come Watch my New 29-Gallon Setup

[scbauer]

http://webpages.charter.net/scbauer/img/29_Dry_Plumbing/TopFrontTwo.jpg

Okay, so that was just a little something to get your appetite wet. About 1 month ago, I bought a used 29-gallon acrylic tank from Eben (here on ReefCentral). I had been looking to do a 29-gallon tank for a few months, and this turned out to be a perfect opportunity. I was looking at glass tank, and when this became available, I was very excited. The main reason I was so excited is because I was looking to drill the tank for a closed-loop and acrylic is so much easier.

Well, what I ended up with was a 29-gallon acrylic tank with a built-in overflow, 10-gallon sump, Mag-7 going through a SCWD for the return, and an Iwaki MD40 going through an Oceans Motions Super Squirt for a closed-loop.

Here are a few pictures. The plumbing is close to done, but not done yet. I filled the tank with water for about a week and ran the tank/sump/return with no problems. I just kept the ball valves closed for the closed-loop. I will receive my Oceans Motions Super Squirt sometime this week, and will finish the closed-loop plumbing (I can't test the closed-loop until I shut down my existing 20-Long because the Iwaki pump is being used on that tank).

Let me know what you guys think...

Full-Length of the tank from the left:
http://webpages.charter.net/scbauer/img/29_Dry_Plumbing/TankFullLengthFromLeft.jpg

Left Side of Tank:
http://webpages.charter.net/scbauer/img/29_Dry_Plumbing/TankLeftSide.jpg

Right Side of Tank:
http://webpages.charter.net/scbauer/img/29_Dry_Plumbing/TankRightSide.jpg

Here's my durso, modified to fit in a VERY tight overflow:
http://webpages.charter.net/scbauer/img/29_Dry_Plumbing/TightDurso.jpg

The back of the tank (two sump returns on top, two closed-loop inlets in middle, and two closed-loop returns on bottom):
http://webpages.charter.net/scbauer/img/29_Dry_Plumbing/Back.jpg

I'll be sure to keep this thread updated as I finish with the Oceans Motions Super Squirt, the Iwaki CL Pump, and moving my old 20-Long into this new tank.

I look forward to your questions and comments.

-Scott

[scbauer]

Sump (from the back):
http://webpages.charter.net/scbauer/img/29_Dry_Plumbing/Sump.jpg

Left side of Sump:
http://webpages.charter.net/scbauer/img/29_Dry_Plumbing/SumpLeft.jpg

Right side of Sump:
http://webpages.charter.net/scbauer/img/29_Dry_Plumbing/SumpRight.jpg

Here is how I mounted the fan:
http://webpages.charter.net/scbauer/img/29_Dry_Plumbing/FanMount.jpg

The whole sump including Mag7 return:
http://webpages.charter.net/scbauer/img/29_Dry_Plumbing/SumpWhole.jpg

And one last one:
http://webpages.charter.net/scbauer/img/29_Dry_Plumbing/TopFrontOne.jpg

Okay, one last one while the camera was out:
http://webpages.charter.net/scbauer/img/RBTA/RoseClownTwo.jpg

[scbauer]

My first question to you guys... Should I go bare-bottom or with sand? I currently have sand, and love it, but I'm worried there may be a problem with the closed-loop returns coming up through sand. What do you think?

-Scott

[scbauer]

Okay, come on... 30 people have seen this and not one comment? What's up?

[dastratt]

okay if you insist, nice tank

Hey maybe nobody wants to start up the BB/DSB thing again

whats the pump sitting on?
How do the grey couplings work, do they allow an easy disconnect of the pump

[scbauer]

Don't worry, I'm not starting the DSB versus BB thing. I guess my real question is, do you think the PVC Closed-Loop coming out of the sand will blow the sand around?

As for the other questions, the pump is sitting on 4 1" sections of 1" ID tubing. I just cut them and screwed them to the base of the Mag7... instant vibration reduction. I also needed the pump to be elevated slightly to accept the input from the sump.

As for the "grey couplings", I assume you're talking about the unions. I can only say that I would NEVER built a tank without both ball valves and unions. There are currently 12 unions and 9 ball valves on my tank. There will be 6 more unions and at least 2 more ball valves. The ball valve and union combination allow me to disconnect the pump in a matter of seconds. I can close the ball valves and disconnect the unions, ensuring that the water will not leak out of the tank while I replace or clean the pump.

-Scott

[kiowascout]

do you trust that mag drive on an external application?

I've heard that they aren't that great at staying watertight where the impeller housing meets the pump body.

Can anyone else comment on that?

[scbauer]

Originally posted by kiowascout
do you trust that mag drive on an external application?

I've heard that they aren't that great at staying watertight where the impeller housing meets the pump body.

Can anyone else comment on that?

Thanks for the info, kiowascout... I've never heard of that, but I don't know much about Mag pumps. I could certainly change the pump...

Anybody else know of this Mag problem?

-Scott

[bbkid4]

as long as you go with a shallow sand bed you shouldnt any problems with the sand being blown around. Looks like a good setup. good luck with it.

[cityofangels]

Hihi,

Nice setup with great potential!

Care to post more pics of your modified durso? I too, have an awfully small overflow and I'm wrecking my brains on how to do the durso! :(

Thanks! :)

[eben]

NICE JOB Scott!!

Dude..you are making me wish I had the tank back LOL...

I vote barebottom, but you know my preferences..haha, I think you should be fine with the Mag 7, just make sure you use plenty of teflon tape on the threads.

I also think you should take off the loc line on the bottom back outlets and make it them fire in opposition to the returns on the bottom sand...that way you will get cyclical conterclockwise (when viewed from the left) water flow..it will be very linear and great for uniform flow = happy SPS..

Just make sure the rocks are stacked loosely so flow isn't impeded.

Here is a link to the tank I was in the process of setting up: make sure you check out the last page for current pics!
http://www.nano-reef.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=67000

[scbauer]

Tank looks sweet, Eben... can't wait to see it in a few months.

-Scott

[scbauer]

Originally posted by cityofangels
Hihi,

Nice setup with great potential!

Care to post more pics of your modified durso? I too, have an awfully small overflow and I'm wrecking my brains on how to do the durso! :(

Thanks! :)

I'll try to take a few pictures tonight... it is fairly simple, though. Basically, I use two 45° PVC pieces connected together to simply "move" the entire length of the durso over an inch or two.

I guess it isn't that simple to explain... I'll take some pictures tonight.

-Scott

[scbauer]

Good news (well, for me at least)... Super Squirt should be delivered today, so I can finish up the plumbing by this weekend and start the water flowing shortly.

-Scott

[scbauer]

Okay, so I wasn't able to take any pictures of the modified durso last night (sorry cityofangels) because I was busy plumbing my Super Squirt!!! That's right, the Super Squirt came in, and I was able to get it set up pretty much how I want it to.

Here is how I set it up... If you're looking at the pictures above, the two outlets in the front of the tank (drilled through the bottom) will fire together, then the two in the back (near the bottom). Repeat. What do you guys think?

I'm going back and forth between using the locline in the back and simply using 45° black pvc fittings. I must say, 3/4" locline doesn't fit very well in a 12" wide tank, but I like the idea of being able to move the flow every once in a while. Thoughts?

How about the OM SS pattern? Do you guys think that sounds good? At first, I thought about having them fire one at a time going around the tank in a circle, but I would be restricting the flow too much. The Iwaki MD 40 RLXT has a 1" input and 1" output. I have 2 1" bulkheads feeding the pump (they are combined into a single 1" pipe before the inlet) and a 1" pipe feeding the Super Squirt. Now, after the water leaves the SS in 1" pipes, it is reduced to 3/4" before entering the tank. So, essentially, I have a 2" inlet and 1.5" outlet from the Iwaki.

I'm starting to ramble... I'm bored at work. Guys, please comment and ask questions. I don't feel like working today. Thanks. :)

-Scott

[scbauer]

Don't you hate when you're the only person posting in your own thread?

[coogarts]

I like it! It's beyond my scope of understanding, but nonetheless, I like it.

[scbauer]

Thanks, coogarts...

[calvin415]

Looks good Scott! Thanks for the link! I'd keep the loc-lines because when you get rock in there, the lines will give you the ability to get the flow through the rocks and then still be able to direct it. :)

Strange how are setups are so much alike... I'm going to be adding the fuge probably some time next month, I'm just waiting on some drawings to make sure it's going to work for me before I have it built. :)

[Stile2]

It seems that unless your setup is 180 gallons or larger that most people don't want to respond. I have been building a 77 gallon for several months and I am only up to the 2nd page on my thread.

But back to your setup. Looks good so far. I am using an OM Squirt as well but am going with 4 outputs at different times. That said I think the bi-outputs in a 29 gallon will be perfect.

Good luck and I'll keep my eye on the thread.

Keith

[scbauer]

Hey, thanks Keith... I appreciate the feedback. I also agree that if the tank isn't a "Large Tank" that you won't get the same response.

Do you have a link to your setup? I'd love to see it...

-Scott

[Stile2]

Click on my little red house, next to my name

[scbauer]

I knew your quote sounded familiar... I have read through your thread a few times. I actually stumbled upon it a few weeks ago when I was trying to research automatic top-off systems.

Sorry I didn't post... I thought about it, then I got distracted by the link to the ATO thread.

-Scott

[Dudester]

Scott, even though my tank DWARFS yours (mine's 30 gallons :lol: ) I'd like to follow your progress; I like what you've done so far.

As far as your question about the Mag pumps, I'm running my CL/SCWD with a Mag 12 that's sitting on a shelf in my cabinet (dry), and even though my system has only been running for about 3 months, I'm very happy with this pump. There have been no leaks and it hasn't heated up a bit despite running continuously.

Since you're interested in links to smaller tank setup threads, here's mine.

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=709062

[gkarshens]

I like to see any setups take place. I find I have learned from people doing all kinds of sizes. Stile2 is one of the few people that have found my thread as well.

I vote for a thin layer of sand. It looks like the spray nozzles are high enough and pointing upward so I don't think it would be a problem. I personally just don't like the look of a BB.

[gkarshens]

Oh I forgot. Hook-em Horns!!!

[scbauer]

Dudester, thanks for the info about the Mag and thanks for the link. Your tank is AWSOME!!! I wish I could fit everything under my stand, but I just don't think it will happen. We'll see.

gkarshens, I agree about the look of a BB tank... I'm not a big fan. My only concern is, sometimes when there is a lot of flow coming out of a pipe near the sand, it can create some turbulence behind or under the outlet, causing the sand to essentially get sucked into the flow (picking it up and then blowing it out). I guess we'll just have to see, huh? :)

Originally posted by gkarshens
Oh I forgot. Hook-em Horns!!!

Oh yea, we'll see you in Houston, baby. I would feel really bad if we were to ruin your national championship chances by beating you in the Big XII championship (honestly), but I can't cheer agains my Buffs... Maybe we'll beat you guys through 58 minutes and you'll kick a last minute feild goal to win, sending you to the national championship.

Okay, back to the tank :)

-Scott

[Stile2]

While I don't have the time or energy to manage a DSB, I hate the look of BB, so I vote for the thin layer of sand and/or crushed coral.

That's what I have in my 29 and what I will have in my 77.

I don't blame you for getting distracted by the auto top off thread, it was a good one.

Keith

PS Congrats on getting to page 2

[calvin415]

Alright Scott, time for some more pics... :)

[scbauer]

Ask and you shall receive...

Okay, first off, I told cityofangels that I would post more pictures of the "modified durso"... well, here it is:
http://webpages.charter.net/scbauer/img/29_Dry_Plumbing/DursoModified.jpg

Here was the best thing that I got yesterday:
http://webpages.charter.net/scbauer/img/29_Dry_Plumbing/OceansMotionsSuperSquirt.jpg

And the second best package I got yesterday:
http://webpages.charter.net/scbauer/img/29_Dry_Plumbing/FloatSwitchParts.jpg

Okay, the Oceans Motions Super Squirt got installed without glue just to see how everything fits. Also, if you've been reading, you know that I can't plumb the Iwaki pump into the OMSS until I tear down my 20-long. Here it is, without glue or a pump connected:
http://webpages.charter.net/scbauer/img/29_Dry_Plumbing/OMSSPlumbing.jpg

And the money shot:
http://webpages.charter.net/scbauer/img/29_Dry_Plumbing/BackWithOMSS.jpg

Okay, give it to me... let me know what you guys think.

-Scott

[Drakis]

Sexy.

[gkarshens]

That is a lot of plumbing on a 29! Looks awesome! Can't wait to see water swirling around in it.

[cityofangels]

Thanks so much for the detailed pic of your durso! Deeply appreciated!

Your workmanship on the piping is indeed impeccable! :)

[calvin415]

Damn! I thought I had lots of plumbing... Oh wait I do, it just doesn't look as crazy. What did I do wrong?! :)

[KingfishJohn]

Scbauer - First off, I'd like to say we aren't scared of your buffalo, as Bevo could beat him up. :eek1:

Secondly - If you do the very thin sand layer, I personally would do your rock scape first, put sand down only where you can see it, and definitely stay on top of it by either having a very efficient cleaning crew, or manually vaccuuming the bed. I have a barebottom tank with no fish, but hey, who needs fish anyway?

John

[scbauer]

Oh yea, I forgot to say one thing... in this picture below, you can see a grey ball valve on the far left. I added that for water changes. The valve is a few inches above the top of a five gallon bucket. I'll have a piece of rigid PVC that will connect into there (without glue, just stick it in for a minute or so), turn off the closed-loop pump, open the valve, and I will have drained 5 gallons from 6 different intakes around the tank in about 30 seconds.

http://webpages.charter.net/scbauer/img/29_Dry_Plumbing/BackWithOMSS.jpg

I'm still trying to figure out the best way to put 5 gallons back in (other than just pouring it into the tank). In my current tank, I have 2 sumps... the second is just sitting next to the tank and I can very easily just dump 5 gallons into that. The reason I like that so much is that if the new water isn't the exact parameters of the tank water, it isn't a shock when it gets poured in... it slowly dissipates into the tank. We'll see. I'll probably just go with the dump method and try to make sure the parameters are VERY similar to that in the tank.

-Scott

[hooterhead]

that's a great looking tank. i love the look of acrylic but hate the price. how far do the pipes stick up out of the bottom of the tank? and how much flow will be traveling through them? i think you will be ok with a ssb as long as there's not crazy flow coming through them. i did see a thread not too long ago about "pseudo" bottoms. just taking a piece of starboard and glueing substrate to it. could be an idea...

[calvin415]

Scott, here's what I do... Take a 5 gallon bucket, drill it, and install some PVC fittings with a valve and a tubing nipple. Fill it up with your Salt pre mixed RO/DI, elevate it on a chair or desk near by and run a hose from the nipple into your sump. Open the valve and let it gravity feed into it. While this is running, open your water change valve enough to drain 5 gallons at the same pace. Takes about 5 minutes depending on your hose size. :)

[reefer2005]

Looking good, can't wait to see it up and running. What are you lighting it with?

[Stile2]

That's some serious plumbing, dude!!

[scbauer]

Originally posted by calvin415
Scott, here's what I do... Take a 5 gallon bucket, drill it, and install some PVC fittings with a valve and a tubing nipple. Fill it up with your Salt pre mixed RO/DI, elevate it on a chair or desk near by and run a hose from the nipple into your sump. Open the valve and let it gravity feed into it. While this is running, open your water change valve enough to drain 5 gallons at the same pace. Takes about 5 minutes depending on your hose size. :)

Actually, while reading your thread, I thought of a good idea. Since I have never had a closed-loop before, I didn't really think of this. Here's what I'm thinking...
1) Drain out the "dirty" 5 gallons through the ball valve I have installed.
2) Close the ball valve and start the closed-loop back up.
3) By this time, the return pump should have emptied about 5 gallons out of the sump, into the display tank.
4) Turn off the return pump but leave the closed-loop running
5) Put 5 gallons of clean water into the sump
6) Let that 5 gallons of clean water mix with the existing water in the sump
7) After about 15 minutes, turn the return back on and let it begin to mix in the display.

I think that process should be gradual enough, what do you think?

Okay, time for bed... early to work tomorrow. I'll reply to your comments then.

-Scott

[scbauer]

Originally posted by reefer2005
Looking good, can't wait to see it up and running. What are you lighting it with?

I'll be using the same light I have on my 20-long. 250W DE MH 14,000K Phoenix in a Sunlight Reef Optix III+.

-Scott

[scbauer]

No overnight comments, huh?

[elephen]

Looks sharp man, cant wait to see that thing up and running.

[Stile2]

How far away from the wall will your tank be because of the plumbing? And are you going to build a extension on the stand to cover it up?

Keith

[scbauer]

Great question... I was thinking about that last night in bed. The tank will be about 12" away from the wall. My current tank is 9" away from the wall but it sits on a stand that has a 3" lip in the front. Because of this, the new tank will be 3" further from the wall, but the stand will be in the exact same place. I just won't have anywhere to set things as I'm working on the tank.

As for "covering" the back, I was kind of thinking about buying a piece of black fabrick and just draping it from the top-back of the tank all the way to the floor. I don't know if this will look better or worse than simply seeing all of the pipes. I'll probably give it a shot since it will be a cheap trick.

-Scott

[cherubfish pair]

The plumbing is brilliant! Do you think you'll need a chiller?

[Mr. Eko]

I agree, the plumbing is amazing. I like the use of the SCWD. Looks great! Keep the pics comming.

[Dudester]

Scott, looking good. I have 2 comments:

1. It looks like you're using 3/4" plumbing from your CL pump into your SCWD. It looks like it wouldn't be a big deal to change that to 1" plumbing. This might increase your flow a little, that is IF you're looking for a slight boost.

2. I like the ball valve you installed to drain your system for water changes. You MIGHT want to consider adding a threaded cap on the end of it that you would screw off during water changes. This is just a safety issue in the event that some curious passer-by decides they want to turn that valve and see what happens. Worth the .50 cents of plumbing supplies, IMO.

[calvin415]

Originally posted by scbauer
Actually, while reading your thread, I thought of a good idea. Since I have never had a closed-loop before, I didn't really think of this. Here's what I'm thinking...
1) Drain out the "dirty" 5 gallons through the ball valve I have installed.
2) Close the ball valve and start the closed-loop back up.
3) By this time, the return pump should have emptied about 5 gallons out of the sump, into the display tank.
4) Turn off the return pump but leave the closed-loop running
5) Put 5 gallons of clean water into the sump
6) Let that 5 gallons of clean water mix with the existing water in the sump
7) After about 15 minutes, turn the return back on and let it begin to mix in the display.

I think that process should be gradual enough, what do you think?

Okay, time for bed... early to work tomorrow. I'll reply to your comments then.

-Scott

Sorry Scott, been busy stuffing my face! :)

That will certainly work, I just prefer to do it slower to ensure lack of impact on the livestock... 5 gallons in and 5 gallons out at the same rate, it also allows it to mix slowly and constantly. But that's just my opinion of course...

Also, not sure if I would use a cloth, might trap heat too well.

[calvin415]

Hey Scott, I was thinking about doing the same idea for a water change on my setup, but not sure where I could plumb another T and valve... Any ideas?

BTW I made my little red house point to my thread... (easy short cut instead... :) )

[robilium]

Love the plumbing!

[scbauer]

Originally posted by Dudester
Scott, looking good. I have 2 comments:

1. It looks like you're using 3/4" plumbing from your CL pump into your SCWD. It looks like it wouldn't be a big deal to change that to 1" plumbing. This might increase your flow a little, that is IF you're looking for a slight boost.

2. I like the ball valve you installed to drain your system for water changes. You MIGHT want to consider adding a threaded cap on the end of it that you would screw off during water changes. This is just a safety issue in the event that some curious passer-by decides they want to turn that valve and see what happens. Worth the .50 cents of plumbing supplies, IMO.

Hey Dude, thanks... Actually, the CL does not go through the SCWD. Here is how it works...

The Closed-Loop pump (Iwaki MD40) has 2 1" inlets from the tank (reduced to a single 1" pipe before the pump) and 1 1" pipe out going into the Oceans Motions Super Squirt. From there, the OMSS has 4 1" outlets... of those 4, 2 will be opened at all times. Half way between the OMSS and the bulkhead, all four of the returns are reduced to 3/4" pipes. Since there are always 2 outlets open on the OMSS at any time, I look at that as being 1.5" out (which is less than the 2" inlet).

Now, the SCWD you see is connected to the sump return. The return pump is a Mag 7 with 1/2" pipes. I was planning on taking the SCWD off when I actually got my OMSS, but I've decided it will just make the flow that much more random. Also, I am into the idea that water should move VERY slowly through the sump. The Mag 7 can push about 700 GPH. With the 4 feet of vertical, a few 90° turns, and some 45° fititngs, we're probably down to about 400 GPH. That would probably okay, but I think the added benefit of the random flow is worth cutting down the flow to something like 250 GPH.

That's a VERY rough estimate, but if that's close, then I'm figuring I'll have something like 1600 GPH moving through the tank. That should be plenty (more than 50x turnover). If I decide I need some more flow, I can always remove the SCWD to add a couple hundred GPH more.

As for the threaded cap... I'm not worried. I have a similar ball valve on my current tank, and I did accidentally open it once. I was reaching behind the tank to open a different ball valve, wasn't looking, and turned the wrong one. It was about 4 or 5 seconds later when I saw the water soaking into the carpet that I realized what I had done. It wasn't the end of the world. As for other people doing it... I don't think they'll do it. The ball valve will be hidden behind the stand.

We'll see how it goes... Thanks for the questions, guys. Keep 'em coming.

-Scott

[scbauer]

Originally posted by calvin415
Sorry Scott, been busy stuffing my face! :)

That will certainly work, I just prefer to do it slower to ensure lack of impact on the livestock... 5 gallons in and 5 gallons out at the same rate, it also allows it to mix slowly and constantly. But that's just my opinion of course...

Also, not sure if I would use a cloth, might trap heat too well.
Eric,

I think the main thing I don't like about that water change is that you can be removing brand new (clean) water as well as old, dirty water. I don't know how fast it mixes with the old water, but if you take out 1 gallon of clean water with 4 gallons of dirty water... well, you get the idea. I don't know if that actually happens since I'm no expert, but I'll let you know how it works.

-Scott

[petstoreguy]

NICE! As far as earlier in the thread. I love the small tanks. I have a 29 gl. and currently setting up a 2 1/2 gl. frag tank.

[gkarshens]

Hey man,
Not to get away from the tank again... But, Sorry about your Bufs! That was brutal

[scbauer]

Yea, this is the only time I'm going to talk about it... that was the worst Colorado game I have ever watched. I sat there for 4 hours and didn't even see them score a single point. They were favored by 14. What the hell happened?

Okay, on the bright side, I was so ****ed off watching the game that I went to work on the tank. Everything is finished!!!

That's right, I said the plumbing is FINISHED!!! There are now only two thing I need to do, neither of which will prevent me from moving my old tank into this one.

First, I need to finish my ATO system. I got about half of it done yesterday. I have two float switches wired into a 12 VDC supply and into a relay. I have 110 VAC wired to the relay but I have to finish some soldiering. Once that is done, I need to figure out how to mount the float switches in the sump, and that will be done.

The second and final (yea right) thing I need to do is design a power center. Honestly, I think this will be the most enjoyable part for me. I'm going to start a new post (same thread) describing my ideas for the power center.

As soon as those two things are done, I'll be completely finished (highly unlikely). In the mean time, I'm thinking about getting this tank wet. Unfortunately, I can't do it tonight. I wanted to, but my wife and I are going out of town tomorrow night, and there is NO WAY I am moving my old tank into this new tank and then going away for 2 days. Just a bad idea. So, I'll probably be moving things in sometime next week. Until then, you'll just have to help me with my power center design.

-Scott

[scbauer]

Okay, so here is what I'm thinking...

American DJ 8-port Power Switch
Each port will have an X-10 3-prong appliance module in it (AM466)
Out of each X-10 module there will be a short cable running to a GFCI wall outlet (2 outlets each)

Essentially, this will give me 16 outlets (controlled by the 8 X-10 modules), all on individual GFCI breakers (or whatever you call them)

The X-10 modules will all be controlled by the AquaController Jr, but I will still have full control over the individual wall outlets by using the American DJ switch. Sound good?

The only thing I will NOT be connecting to the X-10 system is the return pump. That will be installed just like I have my return pump setup right now... plugged into a UPS. With the return pump plugged into the Universal Power Supply, even if we lose power for an extended period of time, there will still be some water movement and oxygenation to help keep everything healthy. The AquaController Jr will also be plugged into the UPS.

What do you guys think? I haven't had a chance to draw anything up, but I have looked into buying all of the needed parts. I wish I could find the X-10 AM466 cheaper than $5.99 each. That's $60 just for the modules. I already have the American DJ, and the AquaController Jr. is on backorder. Can't wait to get this setup.

Two questions... Anybody have a supplier of cheap X-10 modules? Also, does anybody have a good idea of how to hide/disguise all of this electrical work?

Thanks again for following the thread...

-Scott

[gkarshens]

Electrical is my worst aspect with all of this. That being said, it sounds fantastic to me.

[scbauer]

Maybe this will help spark some conversation...
http://webpages.charter.net/scbauer/img/29_Power_Center/PowerCenterDesign.jpg

-Scott

[Stile2]

Are you controlling all of this with the AquaController Jr?

If so would it be easier to get the DC8 and a DC4 and have it controll the premade thing? And doesn't the AC Jr have a limit of 12 plugs it can controll?

Maybe this is not what you're planning, I am unfamilar with the X10 modules.

Keith

[scbauer]

Originally posted by Stile2
Are you controlling all of this with the AquaController Jr? That's the idea...

Originally posted by Stile2
If so would it be easier to get the DC8 and a DC4 and have it controll the premade thing?It would be MUCH easier to just buy the DC8. I just love the whole DIY thing. I like building things, I like working with electronics, and I like the feeling of having done something myself. With that said, there are more benefits to building it the way I want... First, each outlet will be covered by GFCI, but one GCFI outlet tripping will not cause the entire system to go down. Second, I will still have the complete manual control over the individual outlets by using the switches on the American DJ.

Originally posted by Stile2
And doesn't the AC Jr have a limit of 12 plugs it can controll? If that is true with the AC Jr. and X-10, I'm not worried... I'm only using 8. I actually don't think that is the case, though. I'm thinking it is only when using the DC8, but I don't know. Again, if it is the case that I can only control 12 X-10 modules, I'll be fine. Again, I'm only using 8.

Originally posted by Stile2
Maybe this is not what you're planning, I am unfamilar with the X10 modules. Maybe we could get some electrical experts to chime in here?

-Scott

[flycasterjosh]

Hey Fellas,

Lazy FlycasterJosh Speaking. Probably already been asked, but have we determined where your tank came from originally? I dont really want the UBER plumbing, but would like a tank similar.

My condolences on the Buffs a$$ whipping yesterday.

-Josh

[scbauer]

Hey Josh, actually, I believe the tank was custom built. I think I'm the second (maybe third) owner. As for all of the plumbing, I did almost all of it myself. When I got the tank from Eben (he's here on RC, maybe he can chime in about where he got it), all that was drilled were the two holes in the top "eurobrace" and the hole for the bulkhead in the overflow. I drilled 6 more holes in the tank for the closed-loop. Again, Eben may be able to tell you where he initially got the tank.

-Scott

[eben]

tank was from "nemo aquatics" in rocklin which no longer exists...It was made custom by Tru Vu or Clear for life? one of those....

By the way scott, your electrical diagram is CRAZY.....you are truly the nut case of the 29 gallon tank..LOL.

I cant wait to see it running...I am going to be in Tahoe next week with one of my sales reps and I'm sure that I will stay there that night...maybe I will have to swing by and check it out..

BTW...the rest of the rocks are in my tank...frags should be back in sometime in Dec.

[TippyToeX]

Well done Scott! That is a seriously pimped out 29g. :bum:

[scbauer]

Eben, thanks for letting everyone know where the tank came from.

Amy, thanks for the comments. I look forward to getting the water in the tank next week.

-Scott

[Stile2]

Congrats on the water next week! I wish I was that far along on mine. I'm hoping for Winter Break.

Keith

[scbauer]

Well, this isn't a "new" tank, it's a "transfer" tank. I'm not going to be starting with new rock, sand, etc... I may, however, get a little bit of Tampa Bay Saltwater liverock (http://www.tbsaltwater.com), possibly 10 or 20 lbs. There are about 3 or 4 rocks in my current tank that started as base rock (from HIRock on ebay) that I am just not too happy with. I would like to get some interesting pieces from TBS, but I don't want the whole "package" that they offer.

I'm finishing off my automatic top-off system as I type this. I don't know exactly how I will get the water from the bucket to the tank/sump, but I have the hard part done. I'll take a few pictures and let you guys know what I did.

-Scott

[scbauer]

Forgot to tell everyone... I stopped by a fish store today looking for a few more fish to please my wife... found one blue/green chromis, but she needs two or three. I think they will finish off the 29 as far as fish are concerned. I'll wait until I can find two or three together. Since I'm now in the final stretch, the new fish will probably never see the 20-long that I currently have set up.

-Scott

[kiowascout]

scbauer

you might try an aqualifter pump. They work real good for transferring water from your reservoir to your sump.

here's a link to it at marine depot

http://www.marinedepot.com/md_viewItem.asp?idproduct=KTALP

[eben]

scott...if you get new rock, make sure you cook it especially is you go bare bottom...I cooked for 2 months and crap is STILL falling out...it is a pain and I have to siphon it out daily.

[scbauer]

kiowa, thanks for the link. I've heard people talk about those, but never actually looked. I thought they were something else. I am now very interested in it... could somebody post some more info about how these guys work?

I'm curious... can I just drop this guy into a bucket of fresh water, or do I have to keep it dry? If it has to be dry, can I run a hose from the pump (on the ground), up over the top of the bucket (full of fresh water), into the bottom of the bucket and have the pump actually "suck" the water over the top of the bucket, then have it pumped into the sump? It sounds to me like I would have to drill a freshwater holding tank if neither of the above two options were available... Anybody?

-Scott

[scbauer]

Okay, I'm not quite as excited... this was the picture that I saw when I clicked your link
http://www.marinedepot.com/IMD/150/DN1125.jpg

Now I am getting the correct picture... I'll still think about it, though.

-Scott

[scbauer]

Eben... I'll keep that in mind. The idea would be to actually buy the rock from TBS. They actually ship their rock in water, so there isn't too much die-off, but that doesn't mean that there won't be any.

Also, I've decided to use some sand. I just really love how the sand looks. I'll probably have a few SPS, but I like having the mixed reef with softies, LPS, and some cool inverts and fish (and of course, the RBTA).

Thanks again to everybody for their input thus far. Keep it coming... I love that I'm not alone when trying to come up with the best plan for this tank.

-Scott

[kiowascout]

you keep the agualifter dry. it will pump water up to four feet above itself.

tis easy to use. you just hook up some tubing to it (I used silicone airline tubing). drop the intake line into your reservoir and your exhaust line into your sump...

When the pumpo is energized, it will pull water through itself and pump it into your sump. I think it flows at something like 3gph so its a nice slow integration with the saltwater.

Just read your next post... looks like the link was screwy and you got the pic of a mag drive.. Well, give it a thought anyway. for my 75, I use this with float switches and it works great. I only have to fill the 16 gal reservoir about every 5-7 days...

[scbauer]

Okay, that settles it... Unless somebody else can come up with a better idea for my ATO, I'm going to buy the Aqua Lifter, plug it into my float switch setup, and put a 15 gallon tank under my power center (that has yet to be built).

Thanks for the info, guys...

-Scott

[Stile2]

I have heard nothing but good things about the aqualifter.

Sounds like a good way to go!

Keith

[scbauer]

Aqua Lifter has been ordered... now I'm just looking for a good deal on X-10 equipment and GFCI outlets and I'm ready to finish it off.

-Scott

[scbauer]

Aqua Lifter should be delivered today so I can play with my automatic top-off after work.

[scbauer]

Okay guys, I need your help. I'm trying to plan out the switch from my 20-long to the new 29. I want to make sure I have all (or at least most) of the different possibilities covered. Here is what I am planning, but please let me know if you think I'm missing a step, doing something in the wrong order, or could improve in any way.

[list=1]
Make about 20 gallons of fresh saltwater. 10 gallons will go in a 15-gallon Rubbermaid container to be used in the transfer. The other 10 gallons will be set aside (in another 10-gallon Rubbermaid container). Let it heat, mix, and aerate for a few hours.
Unplug everything associated with the existing 20-long.
Empty another 5 gallons out of the sump into the 15-gallon Rubbermaid container. Mix for a few minutes.
Move 10 gallons of water out of the Rubbermaid and into 2 seperate 5-gallon buckets.
Empty the majority of the water from the 20-long into the 15-gallon Rubbermaid.
Drop a powerhead into the Rubbermaid container.
Remove fish, corals, hermits, shrimp, and snails from 20-long and place in Rubbermaid container.
With as little disturbance to the sand as possible, remove live rock. Place into rubbermaid container. Any excess water will go back into 20-long with the sand.
Remove 20-long from the stand and place alone on the ground with only sand and a couple gallons of water.
Time for a sandstorm... Place skimmer into 20-long and mix sandbed like crazy. Skim for an hour or two, mixing sand every 10 or 15 minutes.
While the sandbed is being "cleaned", remove the stand, sumps, and all old plumbing associated with the 20-long. Vaccume the carpet under the tank and clean the wall behind the tank (don't have many chances to do this).
Now that the Iwaki MD40 RXT is not being used for the 20-long, open it up and clean it.
Connect the Iwaki MD40 to the Closed-Loop on the 29.
MOVE THE 29 INTO PLACE!!!
Double-check all connections. Make sure threaded connections are tight and have teflon tape.
Triple-check all connections. Make sure threaded connections are tight and have teflon tape.
Check all bulkheads. Make sure they are tight (but not TOO tight).
Make sure everything is plugged in where it should be (MH light into digital timer, return pump into UPS, everything else into powerstrip).
Fill new tank with saltwater. First use the spare 10-gallons that have been aerating and mixing since the process started. Then use the two 5-gallon buckets that are full. Finally, use the water in the old 20-long that was keeping the sand wet. Do not remove ALL water... sand must be kept wet.
New tank should be full of water. All living creatures should be in Rubbermaid container with powerhead and heater. Sand should still be in 20-long (wet). Turn on power to the new 29 and let the pumps run for an hour or two, checking for leaks.
While leak-testing, dial in the hole on the top of the durso (inside the overflow) to make the overflow as quiet as possible.
Also while leak-testing, make sure the skimmer is working properly and the heater is in a good location (still haven't decided on a location yet).
Sit down and drink a beer.
Once beer is finished, transfer sand from 20-long into the new 29.
Add rock from Rubbermaid into new 29. Let sandstorm settle somewhat... possibly empty skimmer.
Once water starts to clear, transfer all other living creatures from Rubbermaid to new 29.
There will certainly be some extra water. Hold on to the water, keep it heated and mixing/aerating.
Watch tank for an hour or so, then go to bed.
Sleep.
In the morning, do a 5-gallon water change using the excess water from the move.
[/list=1]

What do you guys think? What am I missing? I want this to go as smooth as possible... I'm hoping to do it tonight, but I may wait until tomorrow evening. Thoughts? Concerns? Questions?

-Scott

[Dudester]

Looks great! I have only a few suggestions:

First, I'd start this process earlier in the day and I'd do it on a weekend when you have no additional responsibilities. Sounds like a lot of work and as you have it, I don't think you'll get to item #29 until the wee hours of the night.

Second, I'd put a light over the Rubbermaid "holding" tank as well as a heater, just in case there's a problem (such as a pump problem during cleaning, a sandstorm that lasts forever, a leak that you don't have supplies to fix, etc). You could then keep your livestock in this holding tank for several days, if necessary.

And lastly, on item #23, I'd have 2 beers :lol:

[scbauer]

Thanks, Dudester... I am thinking this process will start at about 5 pm this evening. The heater will be in the "holding" tank (Rubbermaid) and if something goes wrong, I can put a light over the container. Keep in mind, if I do this at night, the tank inhabitants will expect it to be dark anyways.

Also, I think step 23 will probably be inserted earlier... say, step 4, 12, 14, and 21. :)

-Scott

[scbauer]

Okay, I got a little bored at work and drew this up... I'll post a few pictures of my COMPLETED ATO System when I get home tonight.
http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/500/46146Float_Schematic.JPG

-Scott

[scbauer]

And a few pictures of the final product:
http://webpages.charter.net/scbauer/img/ATO/ATO_All.jpg

And for a little size comparison:
http://webpages.charter.net/scbauer/img/ATO/ATO_Box.jpg

I didn't take any pictures of the wiring because it would be useless. If you have any questions, please feel free to ask.

-Scott

[scbauer]

Anybody have an opinion on the ATO?

[Stile2]

I like the added manual button addition. Although my version of the ATO is complicated enough I will probably have to add that innovation.

The plan looks good. I will have to copy that when I do my transfer.

I definately agree step 23 should happen a bit more often.:D

The light of the rubbermaid sounds like a good idea as well.


Keith

[retin78]

wow nice tank. And your anenme looks awesome

[melev]

Scott, I only read page 1, and already I love the setup. I can see you've had a week to do more to it, but I didn't have time to read the rest yet.

I love how you did the closed loop on the back, and may just link this thread to my closed loop page one day to give people yet another version of what can be done.

I give it a big :thumbsup:

[scbauer]

Keith, retin, and Marc... thanks for the compliments. I actually need some help, now. I just realized that I don't have an easy way to mount these float switches in my sump. I did purchase one of these "Mold-a-Holder" (http://www.floatswitches.net/moldaholder.html) things from floatswitches.net, but now that I've got the switches mounted inside the "snail guard" (bottle), I can't really attach it to the mold-a-holder thing very easily. Any suggestions?

I forgot to add that I thought about just using super glue to attach the small bottles to the sump wall, but I don't like the idea of the float switches being so permenant. I would like to be able to adjust the water level in the sump (not that I would need to, but I want the ability).

Thanks again for the kind words...

-Scott

[scbauer]

Oh yea, and in case you're wondering, I didn't do the transfer last night. The plan is to leave work a little early today and start the move around 4:00 PM. I'll have to stop by the store and pick up some supplies for step 23 first... :)

-Scott

[gkarshens]

Have fun! I will be doing the same thing in a couple weeks.

[scbauer]

Any ideas on how to mount the float switches for the ATO?

[gkarshens]

Sorry I don't know a thing about electrical or float switches. Never had one. Once you figure out I'll be interested though because I think I am going to need a setup soon.

[Stile2]

Sorry on the late reply, been very busy a work today.

Could you use the Mold stuff and silicone it to the lid of the snail guard bottles? Just trying to think about this in my head. Sorry I not being more clear.

[HybridFish]

I don't see a check valve in your system. I'm considering putting a sump on my new 40g and read that it might be a good idea to install one. Is there a reason why you don't have one. I also noticed you don't have a GFI (ground fault interrupt) in your system. I don't know if you saw the news about the priest that got electrocuted in a baptism pool and died. The microphone he was had a kinked wire and it shorted. This goes the same way w/ our aquariums. One little problem w/ power heads, heaters, or anything else that consumes electricity can cause great pain! I doubt any of us think twice before putting our hands in our aquariums to do anything. GFIs cost about $25 or less. Just a thought.

[chocolateblnt]

Nice! ...

I like the SCWD and am still debating whether I will put one on my 29, but is all that plumbing really worth having a closed loop? Also was this tank a bare bottom previously? If so I'd keep it that way! What is your drain size and return ... I think I read 1" right?! What kind of bio load are you expecting and what kind of filtration will you be doin' to keep it in check? I'd apologize for all these questions but you know very well why I'm asking ;)

Most Importantly ... How much snow is there :lol: ??? ... my buddy and I are lookin' to do some boarding before x-mas!? I thought this season would never roll through :|

[scbauer]

Originally posted by HybridFish
I don't see a check valve in your system. I'm considering putting a sump on my new 40g and read that it might be a good idea to install one. Is there a reason why you don't have one. I also noticed you don't have a GFI (ground fault interrupt) in your system. I don't know if you saw the news about the priest that got electrocuted in a baptism pool and died. The microphone he was had a kinked wire and it shorted. This goes the same way w/ our aquariums. One little problem w/ power heads, heaters, or anything else that consumes electricity can cause great pain! I doubt any of us think twice before putting our hands in our aquariums to do anything. GFIs cost about $25 or less. Just a thought.

Nope... no check valve. I'm not going to get into the "check valve debate" but essentially, they are worthless. I have enough room in my sump in case the power goes out.

As for GFCI, I don't have everything plugged into a GFCI outlet because I'm going to have 10 different GFCI outlets for each individual item.

-Scott

[scbauer]

Originally posted by chocolateblnt
Nice! ...

I like the SCWD and am still debating whether I will put one on my 29, but is all that plumbing really worth having a closed loop? Also was this tank a bare bottom previously? If so I'd keep it that way! What is your drain size and return ... I think I read 1" right?! What kind of bio load are you expecting and what kind of filtration will you be doin' to keep it in check? I'd apologize for all these questions but you know very well why I'm asking ;)

Most Importantly ... How much snow is there :lol: ??? ... my buddy and I are lookin' to do some boarding before x-mas!? I thought this season would never roll through :|
Glad to see you stopped by. :) Actually, I don't know if the closed-loop is worth all the plumbing. I'll let you know in a few months. :)

No, the tank will not be bare bottom.

Plumbing is explained earlier, and I'll explain it again, just not now. I'm in the middle of moving the old tank into the 29.

As for the snow... we got about 6" or 8" last night. Heavenly is finally open (although they closed yesterday because of wind). If you come up to ski, bring me a frag... I could always use some ;)

-Scott

[scbauer]

Okay, in case you didn't read the above post, I'm in the middle of moving tanks.

I have the old tank completely disassembled and the new tank will be up and running in a few hours. I'll let you guys know how it all goes.

-Scott

[Stile2]

Also with the GFCI issue, you do not want everything going to one GFCI because if that pops down goes the tank. Scott has the exact right idea, each individual item in a GFCI and the power center plugged direct.

Good luck on the move.

Keith

[gkarshens]

PICS!

[scbauer]

Trust me, you don't want to see any pictures right now.

Okay, tank went into place fine.
Water went it... Ran it for about half an hour with no drips anywhere, so I jumpped the gun...
Sand went in

Currently (11:15 pm) the tank looks like the crap I take out during a water change. The WHOLE tank looks like that. I have the closed loop and the sump return running. Skimmer is in and skimming. Right now, I can't see much of anything in the tank, but I would say it has already gotten better in the last 15 minutes. I think in about an hour, I will go ahead and put the living creatures back into the tank (assuming it has cleared up). Then, I'm going to do a 5-gallon water change with totally new saltwater. Give the fish a splash of food and it's off to bed (yea right). :)

This may or may not be the last post of the night. If it is, there will certainly be pictures in the morning.

-Scott

[scbauer]

Okay, well the night is getting longer... After about half an hour of letting the tank settle, I started realizing that the funny clicking sound I was hearing wasn't normal. I went to investigate.

I determined that it was coming from some bad plumbing (pictured here):
http://webpages.charter.net/scbauer/img/29_Transfer/Old_20L_Plumbing.jpg

Okay, so I'm trying to have a little fun. You'll see why in a moment. That is actually all the plumbing I removed from my 20-long.

So, I hear this clicking noise that I don't think is normal. I investigate and determine it is coming from my Oceans Motions Super Squirt. I get brave... I decide there must be a piece of sand lodged in the OMSS and decide I must clean it. Anybody else every try this with their closed loop and their OMSS while the tank was full?
http://webpages.charter.net/scbauer/img/29_Transfer/OMSS_Fix.jpg

Yea, that is the Oceans Motions Super Squirt opened while the tank is full. That is the beauty of a well designed closed-loop.

Okay, so it seems a simple fix... and it was. Only problem was, while I was back there messing around with the OMSS, I saw a drop of water coming out the bottom of one of the bulkheads.

I figured, not a problem, just dry it off. Must have spilled a little while filling the tank, right? Wrong. The bulkhead was leaking. $#!T. Now what to do? Okay, I guess this is where the optomist im me says "hey, now I can try out my handy 'tank drain' feature on the closed loop." So, I did just that. I hooked up about 3 feet of spa flex into the "drain" (ball valve), placed the other end in my old 20-long and let 'er rip. I actually took a movie of the whole process, but I have to edit it before I can post it. It's 125 MB.

The cool part about this is, I found out I can drain my entire tank in under a minute (why I would ever need to do this... who knows). It was easy and fast... cool.

Removed the bulkhead, cleaned everything with fresh RO/DI water, wiped clean and put the bulkhead back on. Done.

So, that's where I am right now. Basically where I was 2 hours ago. Water, sand, and some rock is in the tank. Closed loop and sump return are running. Skimmer is skimming. Hopefully I will be able to put everything back into the tank within an hour.

-Scott

[scbauer]

Okay, the tank isn't clear enough for me to do anything with it and I'm really tired. I have two powerheads in the rubbermaid along with a heater. The surface agitation seems sufficient to me, so I'm going to leave the fish and all other living things in the rubbermaid and I'm calling it a night. In the morning, the tank should be clear and I can transfer everything in at that time (and do some aquascaping).

Good night, folks (as if anyone is reading this at 2:30 in the morning)

-Scott

[Stile2]

Ok, you got me! I thought you took all the plumbing off your new tank.

I am going to have to incorporate the instant drain feature into my closed loop!! Great idea!

Good luck today!
Keith

[gkarshens]

Sounds like you had a fun night! Hope it goes better today!

[Dudester]

Originally posted by Dudester
First, I'd start this process earlier in the day and I'd do it on a weekend when you have no additional responsibilities. Sounds like a lot of work and as you have it, I don't think you'll get to item #29 until the wee hours of the night.

Second, I'd put a light over the Rubbermaid "holding" tank as well as a heater, just in case there's a problem (such as a pump problem during cleaning, a sandstorm that lasts forever, a leak that you don't have supplies to fix, etc). You could then keep your livestock in this holding tank for several days, if necessary.

And lastly, on item #23, I'd have 2 beers :lol:
Wow, I should join the circuis and become "Dudester The Prognosticator." But seriously, I'm glad things are progressing well for you. I look forward to seeing the finished product.

p.s. you awake yet?

[scbauer]

Yea Dude, I'm awake. I actually put all the rock into the tank last night along with as many snails and hermits I could find. When I work up this morning, everything was clear. I put the corals, anemone, clowns, and shrimp into the new tank. Unfortunately, the anemone didn't like the whole transition process. I ended up having to move the the light forward about 4 inches, so I didn't get the light over the tank until about 3:00 today. The light has been running for about an hour now and the RBTA is coming back. I think it'll recover fine.

I didn't get TOO much done this morning... I was busy watching my Buffs get their butt's kicked. Tank is up and running now. Clean-up will take the rest of the day and night. It is a MESS in here. I'll get some pictures later tonight if I can.

-Scott

[gkarshens]

Yeah dude, that was brutal!

Congrats on getting the switch done! Wanna come help me in a couple weeks??? ;)

[scbauer]

I'm not going anywhere near Austin for at least a year. ;)

Actually, I have a friend down in Austin and my wife and I are thinking of going to see him in a few months. If we head down that way, I'll have to stop by and see the 125.

-Scott

[gkarshens]

Let me know!

[AquaNewb]

Hi Guys,

Sorry to be a total newb here, but what kind of tank is that or is it a custom. I'm lookin to get a new 29gal. Was just curious of tank make. Looks great by the way. I hope you keep up the play-by-play so that I can have close to same setup..

Thanks,

[scbauer]

Hey AquaNoob, thanks for joining us. Actually, I bought the tank used from Eben, but here is what he had to say:
Originally posted by eben
tank was from "nemo aquatics" in rocklin which no longer exists...It was made custom by Tru Vu or Clear for life? one of those....

Hope that helps...

-Scott

[AquaNewb]

Thanks for the info:
Can you suggest a acrylic tank like yours that won't break my wallet?
Also I have a question about why you need all the holes in the tank? Couldn't you have got away with less.
Plus what do all the holes do? Sorry if this is the wrong place to post this subject. Please if you can start with the Holes in the top.Left to right then work your way down.
I just want to make sure I understand setup completely.

Thanks A Bunch,

[chocolateblnt]

Originally posted by scbauer
If you come up to ski, bring me a frag... I could always use some ;)

-Scott

... Well now that you mention it my GSP's need fragging soon ;)

[scbauer]

Okay, I know you guys have been patient... Time for the good stuff. Unfortunately, I'm not too excited about my aquascaping. Fortunately, I love it compared to what I had before and considering what I have to work with. As I said previously, I would like to buy a small package from TBS. I think if I do that, I can make the tank look like what I want it to look like.

Without further adieu...
http://webpages.charter.net/scbauer/img/29_120305/FullTankFront.jpg

http://webpages.charter.net/scbauer/img/29_120305/Aquascaping_Front.jpg

From the side:
http://webpages.charter.net/scbauer/img/29_120305/Aquascaping_Side.jpg

And a couple of extras...
http://webpages.charter.net/scbauer/img/29_120305/Cleaner.jpg
http://webpages.charter.net/scbauer/img/29_120305/Clown_RBTA.jpg

Let me know if you guys have any input. Thanks.

-Scott

[chocolateblnt]

Wicked Sweet! ... Where did you get all your black PVC piping for the return!? Also is that spa flex I spy for the hoses?!

[melev]

It looks great. I can't even see the leak from here. :)

[gkarshens]

Lookin great man! No sand storm!

[scbauer]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6221555#post6221555 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by chocolateblnt Wicked Sweet! ... Where did you get all your black PVC piping for the return!? Also is that spa flex I spy for the hoses?!

Thanks... yes, it is spa flex you see. I actually ordered white spa flex, but black was all they had in stock. The black PVC fittings and black PVC pipe were ordered from the same place. Most people who start to get crazy with their plumbing on their tanks know about savko, but if you don't, you should check them out. They have everything you could ever want for plumbing your tank (well, everything I wanted at least :))

http://www.savko.com

Thanks again...

-Scott

[scbauer]

wow, looks like RC added a new feature where the "Originally posted" part of a quote is linked to the quote itself. That's pretty cool.

[scbauer]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6221698#post6221698 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by melev It looks great. I can't even see the leak from here. :)
Yea, the leak is really hard to see. ;) I figured it wasn't a problem since the water just leaks out of the bulkhead and back into the sump. Not a problem, right?

Just kidding... thanks for the compliment, Marc.

-Scott

[scbauer]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6222348#post6222348 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by gkarshens Lookin great man! No sand storm!
No sandstorm at all. I'm trying a few different ways to aim the returns in the front of the tank. The other thing I'm thinking about doing is ordering a different insert (I think they call them drums) from Oceans Motions. Currently, the closed loop returns water from the two returns in the front for 15 seconds, then the two in the back wall for 15 seconds, then the front, then the back, etc... Okay, using the below diagram, it currently returns through 1 & 3 for 15 seconds, then 2 & 4 for 15 seconds, repeat. I think it would give me more random flow (maybe I'm wrong) if it fired 1 & 2 for 15 seconds, then 2 & 3 for 15 seconds, then 3 & 4 for 15 seconds then 4 & 1 for 15 seconds, then repeat.

What do you think?

http://webpages.charter.net/scbauer/img/29Design/OM_Sequence.JPG

-Scott

[gkarshens]

It would definitely be more random. Have you thought about doing 1,4 then 2,3? More of a wave motion.

[rbrice020378]

Neat set up and very inspiring.

[melev]

I forgot to mention in my post above that when you set up a new tank with sand, it may be best to not start up the closed loop to avoid sucking sand into that pump and in your case the 4-way OM device (or SCWD perhaps). This way sand doesn't ruin these pieces of equipment. Once the tank has been running for a few days and is clear, you can start it up with minimal sand becoming waterborne. Since others are reading your thread, that had to be said. :)

It really is a nice setup, and I look forward to seeing how this tank continues to move forward.

[scbauer]

Look what came in the mail today...
http://webpages.charter.net/scbauer/img/29_Power_Center/GFCI_Cables.jpg

A little closer:
http://webpages.charter.net/scbauer/img/29_Power_Center/GFCI.jpg

I bought 12 X-10 AM466 (3-prong grounded appliance modules) online last week. They should be here later this week. From there, I think I'm going to design an acrylic "box" that will hold the American DJ, the X-10 AM466's, and the GFCI Outlets.

I'm going to work on the design of the "box" tonight... I'll let you guys know when I get something drawn out.

-Scott

[eben]

WOW...well done!!!

[melev]

Are those GFI outlets? Where did you buy those? I like them, probaby because they are different.

EDIT: I see the writing on the side of one. Those are really different. :thumbsup:

[scbauer]

Yep... GFCI. I wish I were skilled with acrylic so I could easily build a "power center" but we'll see what I can do with a dremmel and some acrylic glue. Any suggestions, Marc (AKA acrylic master)?

As for where I got the GFCI outlets... right here: http://cgi.ebay.com/LOT-OF-10-ARROW-HART-BLACK-15A-120V-DUPLEX-GFCI_W0QQitemZ7569576636QQcategoryZ41499QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

-Scott

[melev]

Yes, I have an idea. What color acrylic do you want to use? Black?

What I suggest is you get a board (MDF) and use a jigsaw to cut out the openings for the outlets. Then clamp the acrylic on top of that template, drill a 3/4" hole in the area where the outlet will go, and use a router with a laminate trimming bit to trace the opening that was cut in the MDF. You will create perfect outlet shapes in the acrylic. You may need to practice to get the right size opening in your template a couple of times.

Once you've got that part correct, you could make the template with all 10 holes at once, and route them all out. Or you can make one row at a time with a template with 5 holes. Or you can make one hole and reset your acrylic 10 times. :lol: I'd probably make it one row at a time.

One thing I discovered is that an outlet connected to acrylic isn't very strong, and some plugs take some oomph to press them into the recepticle. That can put a lot of pressure on the acrylic, especially at the screw holes. So you may have to glue a little acrylic on the back of your panel to hug those metal tangs at the top and bottom of each outlet to give them more support.

Or be very gentle when you plug stuff in. ;)

That was a good price. At first I thought you paid $39 each! :eek2: However, 10 for that price is really good. Excellent in fact. Hmmm. :)

[scbauer]

Thanks for the idea, Marc. That is essentially what I was planning on doing. The thing is, I would like to build an enclosure that houses all of the X-10 modules, GFCI outlets (on the back), and the American DJ switch. Then, I want to mount that acrylic enclosure into some piece of furniture (little night stand or storage container probably purchased from Ikea or something like that) so that it would be completely hidden behind a door. That furniture/enclosure would then sit next to the tank.

More to come... gotta get back to work.

-Scott

[melev]

Just so you know, the DJ panel does run a bit warm. You may need to vent the heat out perhaps.

[scbauer]

Really? Weird... I've been using mine for a few days now and it isn't even over room temp. Maybe it is because it is just sitting on the ground and not in an enclosed space. Once I get it into the enclosed sace, I'll check the temp and decide if I need to add a small computer fan.

Thanks for the heads-up.

-Scott

[Esper]

i can't wait to see your finished electrical setup! can you post a pic of the back of the american dj? i'm thinking of getting one but i'm not sure how to hook everything up. a "before" pic would be useful, an "after" pic would be awesome!

[melev]

I thought you could see the back of one in these pictures, but not well enough. http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=3285894#post3285894

[Esper]

thanks marc!

so basically i can plug everything straight into the back of the unit and then plug the unit into my GFI...right?

(it's never false-tripped in a year so i keep the pumps on the GFI as well)

[scbauer]

Okay guys, it's time for some more help. Over the last few days, my skimmer (EuroReef ES5-2) has been filling up every day. The collection cup is getting full!!! Normally, I wouldn't think that would be a problem... I would be happy, actually. The problem here is, the "skimmate" is completely clear. I'm worried that the skimmer is just pulling out tank water and that my ATO is replacing whatever is skimmed out with fresh water, essentially lowering the SG of my tank.

Anybody else skim clear water-colored liqued from their tanks? The riser tube is all the way down on the EuroReef. I'm not sure what to do... any help? I'll probably double-post over on the EuroReef sponsor forum, too.

Thanks in advance...

-Scott

[calvin415]

Scott, install an air valve on the air intake and cut the air intake back a little and it should fix the problem, or you can just turn off the skimmer since the tank is just getting setup... If you install a valve, once the tank matures a little you should be able to remove it and then start to raise the return tube so tune it. :)

[scbauer]

Excellent idea. I'll just turn the skimmer off every other day. If I still get clear skimmate, I'll turn the skimmer off for a week straight.

Didn't even think about that... thanks, Eric.

-Scott

[scbauer]

Now that I think about it, I guess a lot of the crap in the water built up in the pipes (as evident by the dirty pipes removed from my 20-Long) and continually let off small amounts of skimmable protien (does that make sense?).

If that's the case, then a brand new tank is only able to skim what is currently in the water column. The only thing being released into the water column is what I add in the form of food (both what the fish consume and release, and what doesn't get eaten).

Therefore, there isn't much in my tank to get skimmed. I really need to buy my AquaController so I can start taking accurate measurments of important parameters. Then I will feel comfortable adding supplaments such as Ca, Mg, etc...

I want the PERFECT reef!!! Not gonna happen, I know. But I'll sure try :)

-Scott

[melev]

When my skimmer does that (I have the ER 12-2), I just pour it right back down the neck of the skimmer and make it skim it out again. Your skimmer may be doing this because the water level in your sump is varying. Or it may happen after you feed.

[kamla]

That some CRAZY plumbing.. Good work.. its very neat and clean..
Also I like you sump.. is that custom or did to buy it (if so from where..)

[scbauer]

Thanks, kamla... Yea, the plumbing might be just a little bit overboard, but so far I like it.

As for the sump, it came with the tank and stand, but I believe it is an "EcoSystem" sump available as model number 2410 here:
http://www.ecosystemaquarium.com/html/sumps_kits.html

-Scott

[scbauer]

Okay, while I'm here, can I just say that I don't know how I survived this long in this hobby without Automatic Top-Off?

ATO is AMAZING!!! I can sit at work and not worry if my return pump is starting to suck air because I forgot to top-off before I went to work. I don't wake up in the middle of the night wondering if the sound I hear is something outside or if it is my return pump blowing bubbles into the tank.

Even better, the way I set my ATO system up, I could put a 20-gallon container of water on the ground and go on vacation for a week (yea, I'd have to figure out how to feed the fish, but that's a different conversation).

Actually, while I'm on that, I'm curious... what is the longest you have gone without feeding your tank. Feel free to be honest. I'll start... Three days, but I fed them quite a bit before I left (read: "overfed"). I'm guessing you could get away without feeding an established tank for over a week. What do you think?

-Scott

[chocolateblnt]

Scott ... it's gonna completely depend on the fish. I've never really tried to see how long my fish could go without food. I'm sure they won't be happy though because they are used to being fed on schedule :] ... However if I can remember correctly there was a time where they didn't get fed for about 4 days, but then again that's not that long since they get fed every other day. Lets get a good Sump Shot/Full Shot too man! Where are you hiding all that equipment like the top off Jug/Powercenter/GFCI's? There's plenty of plumbing pics :lol:

P.S. Stiff Competition with your 29 Gal. Up & Runnin' ;) ...

[Wiggawam]

I'm a lurker but I let my established 29 go for a week and half without food to clear up some bad cyano.

[scbauer]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6253601#post6253601 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by chocolateblnt
Scott ... it's gonna completely depend on the fish. I've never really tried to see how long my fish could go without food. I'm sure they won't be happy though because they are used to being fed on schedule :] ... However if I can remember correctly there was a time where they didn't get fed for about 4 days, but then again that's not that long since they get fed every other day. Lets get a good Sump Shot/Full Shot too man! Where are you hiding all that equipment like the top off Jug/Powercenter/GFCI's? There's plenty of plumbing pics :lol:

P.S. Stiff Competition with your 29 Gal. Up & Runnin' ;) ...
Hey, I'll try to get a shot of everything else tonight. For now, you don't want to see the electrical mess. I actually just have the American DJ proped up against the stand with all the wires in a mess next to the tank on the floor. The ATO is also not in its final resting place.

The plan is to buy/build a small table/cabinet that will sit next to the tank. It will have the entire power center housed inside and hidden. The outlets to plug everything will be on the back/outside of this cabinet. There will also be a shelf about where I can store all my reef-related junk (supplements, salt, net, etc...). Below that will be the ATO storage tank (I think I'm going to custom build an acrylic holding tank... it won't have to be pretty since it will be out-of-sight).

Sound good?

-Scott

[scbauer]

Oh yea, I forgot to add... I got my X-10 modules today.

Here is what I have sitting at home, waiting to be put together to build the "Super Power Center"

12 - X-10 AM466 15 Amp 3-Prong Appliance Modules
10 - Black GFCI Duplex Receptacles
10 - Black Standard Wallplates
1 - American DJ PC-100A 8-port switchable power strip

Anybody else have any idea as to what I can do with this stuff?
Note: "send it to me" is not a valid answer... :)

-Scott

[scbauer]

Okay, slight change of plans... for those of you who don't know (like I didn't until last night), 8 X10 AM466 modules can NOT be plugged directly into the American DJ PC-100A. The AM466's are too wide.

Because of that, I had to buy 10 of these (1-foot extension cords) (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&Item=5793289458) from e-bay.

I'm drawing up the plans as we speak (even though we aren't actuall speaking, and by the time you read this, I might now be drawing up the plans). I'll post my design once it's done.

-Scott

[Dudester]

Scott, your thread's really taken off! Nicely done.

As far as those extension cords, there's another option you may wish to consider. Sometimes a foot is too long, and sometimes a foot is too short. You can buy male and female cord plugs and some thick electrical cable at any hardware store. Simply cut the cable to the desired length, strip off the coating, screw the pos and neg wires into their respective slots, and you've made extension cords exactly as long as you want them.

[scbauer]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6258549#post6258549 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Dudester
Scott, your thread's really taken off! Nicely done.

As far as those extension cords, there's another option you may wish to consider. Sometimes a foot is too long, and sometimes a foot is too short. You can buy male and female cord plugs and some thick electrical cable at any hardware store. Simply cut the cable to the desired length, strip off the coating, screw the pos and neg wires into their respective slots, and you've made extension cords exactly as long as you want them.
Thanks for the idea, Dude, but... Been there, done that. I HATE the plugs (male and female) that you buy from the hardware store. For me, they are just too big and bulky. I am designing the electrical work so that the longest I will need should be 11".

As for your idea of sometimes too long, sometimes too short... that was my exact thinking early on. I though about taking apart each of the X10 AM466's and hardwiring extension cords directly into them, avoiding the male/female plugs on them. Then I took one apart... not very easy to do.

Hopefully, once you see my drawings, you'll understand why I ended up with what I did. Basically, I just like the look of pre-built cables. They are so much cleaner (and they are really cheap to buy). So, I ended up buying a bunch of computer power cables that will plug into the X10 modules and be wired directly to the power receptacles.

I'll try to speed up the drawings so you can see what I'm talking about.

-Scott

[scbauer]

Another note to add... I find it very funny that the ONLY place I could find the physical dimensions of the AM466 module (which are 2.3" x 2.9" x 1.4") was on MarineDepot.com. I looked on www.X10.com, www.RadioShack.com, and other sites... I searched google for about 20 different phrases related to the size/dimension of the X10 (or X-10) AM466 and found NOTHING.

Finally, I searched google for "AM466 physical dimension" and found the info on Marine Depot.

I'm not sure what to make of that info, but I think it says a lot about the DIY abilities of marine aquarists.

-Scott

[scbauer]

Okay, a few pictures for those of you who are picture hungry...

First off, I just added this fan this evening. After I got it installed, I put my hand right under the MH light and I could feel the air blowing right across the glass as well as along the side and top. I think this will REALLY help keep the metal halide fixture cool, resulting in keeping the temp of the tank down.
http://webpages.charter.net/scbauer/img/29_Transfer/BackWallFan.jpg

Somebody posted a request to see my ATO and Power Center. Well, the ATO works and the "Power Center" doesn't actually exist, but I'll show you the temporary solutions (and you can't laugh):
http://webpages.charter.net/scbauer/img/29_Transfer/ATO.jpg

This is the reason I need to built a nice, clean "Power Center":
http://webpages.charter.net/scbauer/img/29_Transfer/CableMess.jpg

A couple of the sump. Here is the left side where you can see the the 1/2" bulkhead that feeds the Mag 7 and the 1/8" airline tube used for the Automatic Top-Off:
http://webpages.charter.net/scbauer/img/29_Transfer/SumpLeftATO.jpg

And the right side where you can see the water coming in from the overflow (as well as the EuroReef skimmer in the middle):
http://webpages.charter.net/scbauer/img/29_Transfer/SumpRightEuroReef.jpg

Here's a different view of the fan:
http://webpages.charter.net/scbauer/img/29_Transfer/TankTopBackFan.jpg

And finally, a full shot with the door open so you can get an idea of how everything is situated:
http://webpages.charter.net/scbauer/img/29_Transfer/FullTankStandOpenDoor.jpg

Hope you enjoy the update...

-Scott

[Stile2]

Looking really great! Wish I was that far along.

Keith

[chocolateblnt]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6267170#post6267170 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Stile2
Looking really great! Wish I was that far along.

Keith

me too *sigh :rolleyes:

[scbauer]

Thanks guys... I don't feel like I am that far. I really need to get some ideas for the power center. That mess of wires is driving me crazy!!!

-Scott

[scbauer]

Okay, since nobody wants to reply to my thread any more, I'll do some posting. :)

Okay, here's the deal... for the first week this tank was up-and-running, the temperature fluctuated between 81.2° and 84.4°. The temp in my 20-Long also fluctuated between 81° and 84°. This was always a concern of mine, but I didn't know how to best address the situation. The plan was an AquaController Jr.

After adding the fan on the back wall (the one that blows up at the MH fixture), the temp is actually LOWER during the day when the MH is running. The way I currently have it set up, the fan blowing hot air away from the tank AND the fan blowing air into the sump both turn on when the light turns on in the morning. When the MH light turns off in the evening, both fans turn off. Last night, the temp was a fairly constant 80.2°. Yesterday and today (while the MH light was on), the temp was a constant 79.9°.

Just something interesting I noticed since installing the MH fan.

Once I get my AquaController Jr., I'll have the MH cooling fan turn on with the MH light, but the sump fan will only come on when needed.

The power center is coming along nicely, but my 1' power cables were not in stock, so it looks like I'll have to stop by Home Depot and build my own power cables... I'll keep you guys updated as the power center comes along.

-Scott

[gkarshens]

I would say a temp swing of .3 degrees is pretty dam good!

[Stile2]

My current 29 gallon fluctuates between 78-79.7 during winter and 79-81 during the summer, chiller helps.

The chiller will be hooked up to the new tank, whenever that gets set up.

I'll be interested on how you do your power center, as I will be doing that soon enough as well.

Keith

[eben]

scott...use the fan on the light only when the MH is on an put a fan in the sump area on a ranko controller...about 70 bucks on DIYREEF.com

set you heater to 79 and ranko controller on the sump fan to 80...thats what I did and my temp goes from 78.8 to 79.5 max even with the 2 250 DE on full blast.

It should work well...a chiller on that set-up isnt necessary...especially in Tahoe.

Looks Great!

[scbauer]

Well, I have some bad new to report. Apparently my RBTA didn't like it when the water temp was constant. I came home from work today to find my RBTA in about 5 pieces the size of peas. I can't figure out what happened. When I went to bed last night, the anemone was big, bubble-tiped, and very rosey-red. When I left this morning, the light wasn't on, and I didn't look in the tank. When I got home tonight, it was dead.

Parameters all seem to be fine. temp is still 79.9, fish are fine, all corals seem fine. I'm doing a 5-gallon water change right now. I'll double-check before bed to make sure everything else is okay... This kind of thing is what makes me hate the hobby :(

Power center will have to wait...

-Scott

[gkarshens]

Make sure you get all the pieces of the anemone out. I had an LTA die on me and I had to do multiple water changes. A dead anemone really screws with your parameters.

[scbauer]

The worst part about the whole thing was, the small pieces that were scattered around seemed to have the algae still inside because they were all sorts of pretty colors (green, red, orange). I'm still a little bit worried that there may be a bigger piece that I didn't find because I never found a large piece that I would consider the body/foot. On the other hand, I have seen these things shrink up to practically nothing... I guess they are mainly "full" of water, right? Anyhow, water change is done, everything else is looking fine. I'll check early in the morning to make sure the water isn't cloudy and everything is still alive.

For now, good night.

-Scott

[gkarshens]

I was amazed at how small it was after it died, so maybe you did get all of it.

[Stile2]

Sorry for your loss.

I had had two RBTAs and one just would not settle down in the tank and split four times inside a week and died.

Sometimes this hobby is very frustrating.

Keith

[scbauer]

Well, everything looked okay today. No extra pieces of the RBTA, corals seemed fine, and fish were swimming as usual.

Power center will get worked on tonight.

-Scott

[gkarshens]

Glad it didn't affect your other livestock! Still sucks though.

[scbauer]

Found a dead little crab floating around in the tank tonight. Wondering if this crab may have something to do with the death of the anemone?

Check it out: http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=730417

-Scott

[Som1else]

Thats quite a sophesticated plumbing job. Reminds me to check my bulkhead when i fill my tank up for the first time.

[scbauer]

Thanks, Som1else... Yea, I did a fresh water test for about 2 days, and I didn't notice that leak. I'm thinking I had it over-tightened or something. Once I removed the water, it was about a 2 minute fix. I loosened the bulkhead, sprayed fresh RO/DI water around the whole bulkhead, wiped everything down (including the o-ring) with a paper towel, tightened the bulkhead back up and no leaks since.

-Scott

[scbauer]

By the way, I would like to be on page 8 before the power center is done ;)

I'm actually about half way through with the power center. What I decided on was to build everything in/on a plywood sheet/box and then find a nice piece of furniture that the plywood box fits into.

I'll update with pictures this weekend (I work on Saturdays, my weekend is Sunday & Monday).

Don't forget to check out my crab id here: http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=730417

-Scott

[melev]

Scott, all looks very nice. You can use the Aqua Controller Jr to turn the fan on and off based on tank temperature, and avoid using a timer if you prefer.

Now clean the skimmer. It is a disgrace looking all orange like that. ;)

[scbauer]

Okay, I'm back... Marc, thanks for the info. Unfortunately, Christmas shopping depleted the "reef fund" account, so a few things will have to wait (like the AquaController Jr).

A little update... The 1' extension cords that I ordered for the power center were out of stock (I ordered them from e-bay, so the guy got a negative feedback for advertising something he didn't have in stock). I decided to just buy the cable and connectors to build the cords myself... until I got to home depot and found out the connectors were $4.88 each!!! I gave up hope for about a week (been busy with other things) and now I'm back working on the power center. I ordered 10 14" extension cords last night from some computer geek website (they were only $0.15 more than the 12" cords on e-bay, so I'm happy. I'm guessing they will be here sometime next week. Once I get them, I can finish up the power center. Here is what I have so far:

The X-10 Grounded Appliance Modules (AM466)
http://webpages.charter.net/scbauer/img/29_Power_Center/X10_Modules.jpg

Here is how they will connect to the GFCI outlets:
http://webpages.charter.net/scbauer/img/29_Power_Center/X10_to_GFCI.jpg

Here is how I mounted them to the plywood:
http://webpages.charter.net/scbauer/img/29_Power_Center/X10_Board.jpg

I now have half of them mounted and ready:
http://webpages.charter.net/scbauer/img/29_Power_Center/X10_Board_Half_Mounted.jpg

And the holes in front to adjust the address:
http://webpages.charter.net/scbauer/img/29_Power_Center/X10_Board_Front_Holes.jpg


Okay, one final update... I decided there were too many micro bubbles in the tank. I'm sure some of this has to do with the fact that the plumbing is new, but that isn't the whole reason. I decided to cut down on the flow from the tank to the sump. Luckily, the Mag series pumps are the same size (exact dimensions) from model 2 to model 7. Since I was currently using a model 7, I could use a 2, 3 or 5. I decided I really didn't need much flow at all, and went with a model 2. I actually had another reason for the switch... Last week, I happened to touch the Mag 7 and it was REALLY hot. The Mag 2 uses 24 watts instead of 70 watts, so hopefully this will help cut down on the heat a little bit. The beauty of having planned out my plumbing well in advance is that it only took about 3 minutes to switch out the return pump. I simply shut off the power, let all the water back-siphon into the sump (because I now have enough room in there to handle the excess water), close the bulkheads on either side of the pump, open the unions between the pump and the bulkheads, catch the few drops of water that spill, and then repeat in reverse.

The flow is very minimal. I think I could even remove my durso and there wouldn't be that much sound (but I would hear it, so the durso stays). As for the heat, I don't know if it helped or not, there are too many other factors involved. As for the micro bubbles, they are almost gone! Then I built this little guy to help a little more:
http://webpages.charter.net/scbauer/img/29_Transfer/29_Return_Prefilter.jpg

That's about it for now. Hopefully the 14" power cables will be here next week and I can finish off the power center. Then I can buy myself a late Christmas present (AquaController) and get this thing running like I want.

Oh yea, I also bought some more cleaners (snails and hermits). They won't be shipped until after the holidays.

Merry Christmas, everybody (like our tree?)
http://webpages.charter.net/scbauer/img/XmasTree2005.jpg

Adios for now...

-Scott

[melev]

Scott, I think you have the X10 wired incorrectly. Unless you plan to use the X-10 to make the outlet go live? I'm not 100% sure that is a safe plan, but I'm not an electrician.

That's funny how you hid the entire X-10 behind the wood. Something tells me you'll need to gain access to those more often than you anticipate. You might put hinges on that wooden panel to swing it open as needed.

[scbauer]

Marc, that is the the plan. The idea is for the X10 to turn the outlet on and off. The reasoning behind that is that I don't want every single piece of equipment to be plugged into one GFCI outlet. This way, if something tripps the GFCI, it only turns off that piece of equipment, not everything. I've already tested it and it worked fine. I plugged the X10 into the wall, the GFCI into the X10, and a light into the GFCI (as well as a circut tester). When I turned the X10 on, the light turned on and the circut tester showed that it was wired correctly. I turned the X10 off, and everything turned off. It went on and off 10 or 20 times with no problem. The only thing I was worried about was the GFCI resetting after the power went on/off/on/off etc... This wasn't an issue.

Maybe there is something I'm overlooking... can you think of anything else? Maybe you could convince one of the electrical experts on this board to chime in?

Why do you think I would need to get to the X10 modules often? Give me more detail on where I screwed up :)

Thanks...

-Scott

[scbauer]

By the way, I put my filter sock in today, and WOW... So I've heard all the stories of people who had their skimmers go crazy after installing a filter sock. Well, I was no exception. I really didn't expect this, though... this picture was taken about 15 seconds after the filter sock was put into the sump:
http://webpages.charter.net/scbauer/img/29_Transfer/FilterSockIncident.jpg

I turned the skimmer off right after that picture and everything is fine now, but wow. I really didn't expect anything like that. It was crazy.

-Scott

[melev]

Well, maybe it will work. We have a few guys here on RC that can chime in. Electric130 and H20eng would probably have some insight.

I've found that x-10s can turn on and off when they feel like it even when you try to manually send the ON signal. The Aqua Controller will do that too unfortunately. The only saving grace is that the next day it will work perfectly fine. However, for that day you have to plug the item directly into a powered outlet and unplug it later until the X-10 comes back on again.

One thing I found is that X-10s don't turn off the power, they turn it down. Due to this fact, it burned up the transformers to my IceCap cooling fans. Have you tested to see how much power your outlets have when the X-10 is turned off?

Since they can break, they sometimes need swapping out or replacing. In your application, changing them out isn't as easy as one would hope. However, you can just change channels, and move the plugs over to see if the X-10 has gone bad or not, right?

Your skimmer did go nuts. Did you wash that filtersock before using it? Was it a new one?

[scbauer]

Thanks Marc... I'll hook my multi-meter up to the outlet with the X10 off. As for swapping out the X10 module if it goes bad, it would take about 10 seconds. If you look in the picture where 4 are finished, you can see that all I need to do is remove the back half (the front plastic part can stay, I'll just replace the insides).

I'll shoot Electric130 and H20eng a PM to see if they can help.

As for the filter sock, it is new. I washed (more like rinsed) it with RO/DI water. I took it out and rinsed it better and everything is fine now. Just in case something weird was on the filter sock, I'm doing a 5-gallon water change right now.

Man, I wish I could take a 1 week vacation every week... that would really make work easy ;)

-Scott

[scbauer]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6345548#post6345548 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by melev
One thing I found is that X-10s don't turn off the power, they turn it down. Due to this fact, it burned up the transformers to my IceCap cooling fans. Have you tested to see how much power your outlets have when the X-10 is turned off?
Okay, so I did as you said, and sure enough...
ON = 118 VAC
OFF = 47 VAC

That is not something I expected. I've been upset about this all night. Okay, so I put together a list of things that could really have a problem with this:

Sump Fan - Turns on and off with the temp
Heater - Turns on and off with the temp
IceCap E-Ballast - Turns off every night
MH Cooling Fan - Turns off every night

Those are the things that will go on and off. Here is a list of things that will usually be on, but could go off:

Skimmer
Automatic Top-Off
Iwaki MD 40 RLXT
Oceans Motions Super Squirt
Sump/Fuge Light
Mag 2 return pump

Now is when I would like the electrical experts to chime in and let me know if there will be a problem using the above items on an X10 Appliance Module (AM466).

Again, when these items get turned off by the X10, there is still 47 VAC going to the unit. Is this a problem?

Thanks...

-Scott

[melev]

Scott, did you PM those two individuals I recommended to look at this thread?

I know that motors need enough power to 'turn over' to the point of running. So a pump with not enough power will simply not run. Does it consume it if the power is weakened? I don't know. Maybe it just sits there idly, doing nothing and using nothing.

The power supplies to my IceCap fans burned up, but a regular fan with a regular plug might not. Matter of fact, I'm almost positive they won't based on posts I've read over the years. But I won't run IceCaps on X-10s ever again. I'd rather just plug them into a timer, and have. This isn't temperature controlled, but at least they don't get damaged. I just have to get the timing close to perfect to achieve my goal.

The lights run on ballsts. All of mine have worked perfectly on X-10s. My guess is they again act just like a pump, in that they must have enough power to light the bulb, or they sit dark. Whether they use power or not I don't know. I'm waiting for my Kill-O-Watt device to show up so I can actually measure this stuff and hopefully get some real answers.

[scbauer]

Hey, thanks for the info again, Marc... Yea, I PM'ed the two of them. I'm not expecting an instant response since it is Christmas Eve. Maybe they'll chime in, maybe not. I'm really not too concerned about the fans burning up because they are pretty cheap. I guess I'll just build what I wanted to build and see if I have any problems down the road (unless I hear otherwise from the experts :))

Once again, Merry Christmas everybody. Hope you all have a wonderful Holiday weekend.

-Scott

[H20ENG]

Hi Scott,
I'm sorry, I dont have much experience with X-10 stuff. I've never trusted it enough to buy and set it up. All my stuff has been hard wired.
Many people on RC use them, though, and SOMEONE will be able to answer your X-10 ?s.
Nice project, BTW!
Happy Holidays,
Chris

[scbauer]

Okay, well since I haven't posted at all this year, I thought it was time for a little update. I have some pictures at home, so hopefully I can post them tonight when I get home from work.

I have been working on the power center for the last few days, and everything should be finished tonight.

My favorite part arrived on Tuesday... my new AquaController!!! It's just a Jr., but it should be plenty for this tank (I hope). I have hooked it up and tested it and everything seems to work well so far. The only concern I have is my IceCap E-ballast being switched on/off by the AC Jr using the X10 modules. I'm not too worried, though.

I was looking to get a refractometer around Christmas (as if I haven't bought myself enough Christmas presents this year), but ended up with this:
http://www.americanmarineusa.com/salinitymonitor2.jpg
(I got it used from ebay, and it came with a PinPoint pH monitor, too, so if anybody needs a PinPoint pH monitor without a probe, I'll probably let it go for a good price)

I also ordered some more cleaners... I should get the snails and hermits today.

Finally, I've decided what the next step of this project will entail. I'm going to build a Ca reactor. I think I might love building things for my tank more than I love the tank itself, but that's a whole different discussion.

For the Ca reactor, I want to build something simple, somewhat cheap (that's not the most important factor), and SMALL (that is the most important factor). I'm thinking about using a 2" or 3" diameter chamber for media, my old Mag7 for recirculation, and a little (20 oz) paintball CO2 tank. You can either help me out here, or check out the thread I started here:
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=743184

I've been reading a few threads about building a Ca reactor, and am rather excited about building something that works and is VERY small. Efficiency is not the most important thing for this Ca reactor since I don't thing my calcium needs are very high in this tank.

Okay, let's get this thread alive and kickin' again...

-Scott

[H20ENG]

Scott,
I think Neptune makes a relay board to replace the x-10s if you have problems with your lights.

[scbauer]

Okay, cool. I've seen a few things that may help with the X10/IceCap problem if it does turn out to be an issue. I'll be sure to test it tonight and let you guys know what happens.

-Scott

[scbauer]

Okay, no pictures yet (sorry), but I'm just about done with my power center. The problem is, it all resides on a single sheet of plywood and I don't have anywhere nice to hide everything. I would like it all to be hidden in some sort of cabinet, but for now it looks like that isn't going to happen.

Some more positive news, my extra cleanup crew came in yesterday. I got about 30 snails and 10 or 20 hermits. I was amazed at how active everything was the second they were dropped into the tank. Snails and hermits were all shipped dry. There was a wet papertowel in the bag, but that's it. I actually thought all the hermits were dead when I got them because they had all gone into theirs shells and I didn't see any movement. The second they hit the sand bed, however, they were all running around like crazy.

The last note for now... I plugged my IceCap E-Ballast into the "power center" this morning and everything worked fine. Here is the setup:

IceCap -> GFCI Receptacle -> X10 AM466 -> American DJ PC100A

The American DJ was plugged into the wall, and the AquaController and X10 Control Module were plugged in on the other side of the room. I used the AquController Jr. to turn the light on and off and everything worked fine. So, for those interested, it seems X10 will work fine with IceCap electronic ballasts.

-Scott

[bcoons]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6350591#post6350591 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by scbauer
Okay, so I did as you said, and sure enough...
ON = 118 VAC
OFF = 47 VAC
.............
Again, when these items get turned off by the X10, there is still 47 VAC going to the unit. Is this a problem?

Thanks...

-Scott

Scott,

I'm not familiar with X-10 devices, but I do know that many AC solid state relays that use triacs as the switching device will show an open circuit voltage with no load. The voltage is a bias voltage and not capable of supplying much current. So as soon as you place a load on it (a light, or a fan coil, etc) it pulls the voltage to near zero.

You can test this with your multimeter by pulling the plug for the device partly out of the X-10 contolled socket, and then (very carefully) place your multimeter probes on the two (hot and neutral) prongs of the plug. I believe you will find that you have the full 120 VAC when the device is ON, and a reading much closer to zero when the device is switched OFF.

Again, I don't know these particular X-10 devices, but it may be worth measuring as I described to maybe put your mind at ease.

[TheCoralReef731]

Sorry if this has been said earlier in this thread, but running any Mag outside of water isn't a good idea. If you go to www.marinedepot.com , you will see that they say: "Note: Mag-Drive pumps are not recommended for external use". Most likely, yours will overheat and burn out. I would switch your plumbing a little, and put it in your sump. How is the RBTA doing? I have a setup just like yours w/ 25gallons and a nice sump (even freakier, I just ordered a Mag7 and bought an RBTA). Does yours move around much? Did it anchor deep into the rocks? What do you feed it?

[skippysmind]

great job

[scbauer]

bcoons: Thanks for the info. I wasn't too worried about it, but that makes me feel even better. I'll try to run that test tomorrow.

TheCoralReef731: Haha, yea, like I'm going to touch that plumbing... not gonna happen. What I did do, however, was downgrade from a Mag 7 to a Mag 2. This did two important things. First, it introduced less heat into the system as the 2 runs cooler than the 7. Second, it slowed down the flow which gave microbubbles a chance to rise to the surface in the sump, ensuring that they don't get pumped back up into the display tank.

As for the RBTA, unfortunately, I lost it. I'm not too sure why, actually... just came home from work one day and it was in about 20 pieces, all near where it had settled. It could have something to do with my water parameters... I just got my AC Jr. up-and-running and it shows pH of 7.8, so I'll try to get that raised up to 8.2 or so over the next week.

skippysmind: Thanks!

-Scott

[scbauer]

Okay, update time...

First off, I don't know if I mentioned it or not, but the day after Christmas, my wife and I picked out 3 good-looking Blue/Green Reef Chromis. They work perfect in the tank, except for when they die. Unfortunately, the day after they went into the tank, one of the three died. I'm pretty sure it was dying before we bought it. What happened was, we saw a tank full of these blue/green reef chromis, so I asked the LFS guy to feed them so I could watch them eat. Well, there was one fish on the sand, laying on his side, almost dead. The other fish were picking on him. Well, once the fish store guy put some food in the water, the fish all went crazy, including the "dead" guy on the bottom. Now we didn't know which one was the sick one. I'm pretty sure we accidentally got that one.

The other two are still doing great, and actually seem to play with the clown fish in the tank.

The other living addition to the tank was an appropriately sized cleaning crew. For years I have felt as if my cleaning crew was inadequate... yesterday, I received my cleaning package from an online vendor. It was made up of the following:

15-20 Nassarius Vibex Snails
5-10 Astera Snails
2 Margarita Snails (gotta love the name :))
10-15 Hermit Crabs

I just realized that I already posted that info, so I'll keep this short... Here's a picture I took yesterday as the crew got added to the tank. It isn't that great of a picture, and it only shows about half of the creatures that got added since they all scattered so fast:
http://webpages.charter.net/scbauer/img/29_Gallon_2006/New_Cleaning_Crew.jpg

You can see the two chromis smiling for the camera there in the top :D

-Scott

[scbauer]

Okay, so it is done. Unfortunately, I didn't get a chance to build this thing into a nice piece of furniture like I had hoped, but maybe that will be another project I can start soon.

Here are the pictures of the progress...

You may remember this from early on... the design:
http://webpages.charter.net/scbauer/img/29_Power_Center/PowerCenterDesign.jpg

The X10 Modules (AM466):
http://webpages.charter.net/scbauer/img/29_Power_Center/X10_Modules.jpg

Mounting the X10 modules:
http://webpages.charter.net/scbauer/img/29_Power_Center/X10_Board_Half_Mounted.jpg

The front of the board, giving me the ability to change the address of each X10 module:
http://webpages.charter.net/scbauer/img/29_Power_Center/X10_Board_Front_Holes.jpg

Mounting the GFCI receptacles in the cutout made on the plywood:
http://webpages.charter.net/scbauer/img/29_Power_Center/GFCI_Front_Partial.jpg

I was initially worried about the strength of the plywood (3/16") with two big holes cut out. I think it really helped to use 4 screws for each receptacle. The receptacle area no longer feels flimsy (is that how you spell "flimsy"?):
http://webpages.charter.net/scbauer/img/29_Power_Center/Single_GFCI_Front_No_Cover.jpg

Once they were all screwed in with the cover plates on:
http://webpages.charter.net/scbauer/img/29_Power_Center/GFCI_Back_Unwired.jpg

And finally, wiring the GFCI receptacles to the X10 modules. If you look carefully, you can see that the top-left and bottom-left receptacles are not wired the same. The idea is to have these two receptacles (all 4 outlets) hard-wired so that I can plug in certain things that don't need to be X-10 controlled. For now, they remain unwired:
http://webpages.charter.net/scbauer/img/29_Power_Center/GFCI_Back_Finished.jpg

The more I look at it, the more I'm upset that I didn't make it look nicer. It is, however, very functional... The FINAL (maybe) product:
http://webpages.charter.net/scbauer/img/29_Power_Center/Power_Center_Installed.jpg

That's it for the power center. 10 total receptacles, all GFCI-protected, 8 of which are X10 controlled as well as switchable using the American DJ PC100A (seen on top). AquaController Jr. pictures to come.

-Scott

[scbauer]

Last update for the night...

WELCOME TO YOUR NEW HOME:
http://webpages.charter.net/scbauer/img/ACJr/First_Plug-In.jpg

Here is the AquaController Jr. with my handy Radio Shack thermometer. The "Out" temperature of 82.6 is what the AquaController should read since both temp probes are in the tank next to each other. It doesn't read 82.6:
http://webpages.charter.net/scbauer/img/ACJr/Temp_Calibration_Problem.jpg

I couldn't figure out what was wong, and kept playing with the end of the AC's temp probe. Then I kept turning the AC on and off. Finally, it just started working.

And last but not least... the final resting place (for now):
http://webpages.charter.net/scbauer/img/ACJr/After_Install.jpg

Notice the pH of 7.81? Yea, I don't really like that, even though it is at night. Looks like a Kalk "reactor" (more like top-off) may be next on the to-do list.

For now, good-night. I hope you enjoy the updates, and as always, please feel free to ask me any questions and give me any feedback that you deem necessary.

-Scott

[Jimsmowen]

Looks really messy :S Sorry :D It just looks like alot of unecassary cables. If I am correct i nthe way you are wiring it up??

I would have put the GFCI next to the appropriate X10.

[scbauer]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6450390#post6450390 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Jimsmowen
Looks really messy :S Sorry :D It just looks like alot of unecassary cables. If I am correct i nthe way you are wiring it up??

I would have put the GFCI next to the appropriate X10.
So when you decide to do it, you feel free to do it that way.

[Jimsmowen]

Oh I didnt mean to like pick holes in it... I would never be able to do anything of this scale....

[ctreefer]

Scott, I'm really impressed with your plumbing!!! So impressed, that I feel compelled to ask you to take a look at mine before I glue everything together to see if I missed something along the way.

Hope you don't mind....
http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/500/14477backplumb29.jpg

The only thing I don't show there is there will be a mag 3 returning water to the tank from the sump and there is a backup overflow off of my overflow box that will have a line running down into the pump in the event that the main overflow backs up.

Thanks for looking.

ctreefer

[scbauer]

ctreefer: That looks pretty good, but I see a few things. My first concern is that it looks like the Mag that is in the picture (sitting on the paint can) is set up as a closed-loop pump. If it is, then I'm worried about the intake for the closed-loop. It looks to me like it is simply a U going over the top of the tank wall. Again, if that's the case, you're going to have a problem starting the closed-loop. You can check out http://www.melevsreef.com/ to see how he set up the "primer" tube for the closed loop.

The other concern I have is that you said your overflow backup (the 90° bulkhead at the top of the overflow) "will have a line running down into the pump..." I hope you mean that it will have a line running down into the "sump" and not the pump. If it is going to the pump, then you will be pulling air into your pump all the time.

Lastly, I would be scared to have the IceCap ballast connected to the stand. That is just personal preference. I actually don't like where my own ballast is, but I can't really change it. If you have the option, you might want to move the ballast so that you can't easily spill water onto the ballast.

Other than that, it looks pretty good.

-Scott

[ctreefer]

Thanks Scott,

Yes, I meant sump not pump.:)
I'm going to be replacing the mag pump with probably an eheim. Either way I do have a plan for priming it through one of the outputs, thanks for the catch.

I agree with the Ice cap. I'm currently figuring out my electrical and will either move or shield the ice cap. Is your electrical panel going behind your stand, along side it, or within it(which I doubt as this is a 29:))?

thanks again

[TheCoralReef731]

Sorry to hear about your RBTA. Mine shrunk to the size of a golf ball yesterday, but grew back overnight. I heard this is normal. Also, it moved to the underside of a rock. Do you have any clue why it would do this? Dont they like light?

[melev]

Hey Scott, that looks good. I was trying to remember where I saw those black GFI outlets, as I've been thinking about replacing mine to figure out at the source where any one item goes kaputt.

[scbauer]

I actually got them off of ebay... the "ebay contact" at the company was a really nice guy to do business with. Here's a link:
http://cgi.ebay.com/LOT-OF-10-ARROW-HART-BLACK-15A-120V-DUPLEX-GFCI_W0QQitemZ7579776858QQcategoryZ41499QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

I'm pretty sure that's the same people... definately the same product. It is a pretty good deal, too, at $4 each. I should point out that they do NOT come with faceplates, but I found black faceplates at lowes for about $0.70 cents each.

-Scott

[scbauer]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6460884#post6460884 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by TheCoralReef731
Also, it moved to the underside of a rock. Do you have any clue why it would do this? Dont they like light?
Due to my previous statement on the subject, I feel I'm not the right person to ask. You may want to try in the Anemone forum.

-Scott

[scbauer]

Oh yea, a quick update on the tank. I got my PinPoint Salinity monitor in today. Doesn't work. :( While trying to calibrate it, it tells me "Battery Low" (I'm using the AC adapter) and the value keeps jumping all over (from 17 to 101 to 64 to 97 to 43 etc...). I'm going to try again when I get home, but it looks like something is wrong. That's what you get with e-bay.

I also got my Salifert Calcium test today, and quickly went home to test. I tested twice, and got 375 and 370... not as bad as I thought it would be, but I'd like to raise that up to somewhere around 420 - 450. I also need to start testing Alk... the results of which will probably lead me to start my new Kalk bottle design:
(top is the current ATO setup, bottom is the planned setup)
http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/500/46146ATO_Kalk-med.JPG

What do you guys think? This would essentially replace all of my evaporation with Kalk water (maybe saturated, maybe not, depending on how much mixing I get). Comments?

-Scott

[gkarshens]

I don't know anything about Kalk, but I have a question about your Aqualifter. How does it work? Float valve or timer? Are you happy with it?
Thanks

[scbauer]

Float valve... There are actually 2 float valves, one is about half an inch or so higher than the other. The bottom one controls the on/off of the AquaLifter. The top one is a backup in case the bottom switch fails.

As for the AquaLifter, it works great. As for the ATO system as a whole, I can't believe I spent 4 years in the hobby without building an ATO system. I really can't believe I used to fill a 1-gallon container every day and bring it to the tank. I have such peace of mind knowing that while I'm at work, the water level is staying constant (and thus the salinity is staying constant).

Do It... you won't look back!

[melev]

I'm not a fan of kalkwasser period. Too many ways you can get burned. I would use the first method, and then drip kalkwasser from a separate container that limits the total amount you can drip into your tank. Let the ATO top off water as needed.

[gkarshens]

Thanks! I think I will use the same type set-up. Where did you get your Aqualifter and did it come with the float valves? If not are there a better type of float valve to get?

[scbauer]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6473664#post6473664 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by gkarshens
Thanks! I think I will use the same type set-up. Where did you get your Aqualifter and did it come with the float valves? If not are there a better type of float valve to get?
That's a whole different question. There are many different designs out there. The short answer... no, the AquaLifter doesn't come with the switches.

Essentially, I had to build the top-off system myself. I'll try to post a list of parts later, but there are designs all over RC. I may even have a picture and design earlier on in this thread.

-Scott

[scbauer]

Yea, you can check out the ATO design here:
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=6200810#post6200810

-Scott

[alien9168]

Nice system!

I'm thinking about duplicating something simmilar on a smaller scale!

Thanks dor some insights and the best of luck to you in your future aquatic endevors!

:D

-Alien

[gkarshens]

How about an update???

[chocolateblnt]

Damn Scott! I left to Europe for a month came back and finished my tank before you :p ... I like the progress however it's turning out to be an awesome 29 Gal. :D

[scbauer]

Alien: Thanks... smaller scale, huh? If you mean that you want to do a similar setup on a 10 or 20-gallon tank, I wouldn't advise it. The space needed for plumbing just gets to be so tight/unavailable, I wouldn't try something smaller. If you mean it isn't going to be as "overboard" as my tank, then good luck... post a link to your thread so we can follow along.

chocolateblnt: I didn't read back on my thread far enough to see what the last update was, but I am done with the tank. I thought about building a Ca reactor or a Kalk reactor, but... (see next response)

Gabriel: Quick Update... Looks like I'm going to be moving so the tank will be disassembled for transport. I'll certainly let you guys know once I know for sure because I will need some help with how to move the tank.

That's it for now.

-Scott

[FlipFlops24/7]

is it just me or does anyone else think this is overkill for a 29 gallon tank? I see tons of 29's(including my own) which are doing great with a lot less equipment.

Very nice work on the tank though I must say.

[gkarshens]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6685887#post6685887 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Debaser
is it just me or does anyone else think this is overkill for a 29 gallon tank? I see tons of 29's(including my own) which are doing great with a lot less equipment.

Very nice work on the tank though I must say.

I say to each their own. If you like to keep it simple, great. I think it is great how much work Scott has put into this. Putting the system together and tweaking it is half the fun IMO.

[scbauer]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6685887#post6685887 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Debaser
is it just me or does anyone else think this is overkill for a 29 gallon tank? I see tons of 29's(including my own) which are doing great with a lot less equipment.

Very nice work on the tank though I must say.
I agree, it was a lot of work, but I honestly like building the tank more than anything else. There are certainly added benefits of spending the time up front. As for my tank having a lot of equipment... I'm confused. I'm looking at your tank and I see a big overflow box, a spray bar and three or four powerheads and that is just inside your display tank. I personally hate having all that crap inside my tank which is why I spent so much time making sure I got the results I wanted with the equipment out of the display.

-Scott

[scbauer]

Okay, since I haven't posted anything worth reading for quite some time, I guess I'll do just that...

AquaControllers ROCK!!! Okay, so as you know, I now have my AC Jr. controlling 8 separate GFCI receptacles. With the ability to turn the fan on and off, I have been able to keep my temperature between 79° and 81°. I must admit that I'm a little worried about only having 1 heater. I think I'm going to invest in a couple of high quality heaters (but small, maybe 50W) and plug them into separate receptacles. That way, if one of the heaters OR one of the X10 modules were to die, there wouldn't be any harm done.

Other parameters that I've started watching more closely... pH is fluctuating between 7.85 at night and 8.2 during the day. Surprisingly, I've actually been able to keep the pH as high as 8.2 at night when I leave the window open. The problem is, the outside temp at night is usually somewhere between 15° and 25°, so the window doesn't stay open. Calcium is another parameter I wasn't testing until I started this tank. The first test I did was about 1 week after a 5-gallon water change and I got a reading of something like 380. I've been giving the tank a "squirt" of Kent's liquid calcium every third or fourth day for about a month now, and the last test I did read about 420. That's pretty close to what I would like the tank to be. I'll probably raise the Ca up to about 450 and then test every other week to make sure the levels are staying stable.

Last but not least, it looks like my wife and I will be moving out of Tahoe and down to Las Vegas. The drive is about 8 hours, so I'll be looking for advice on how to move the tank in the coming days.

Recap:
Temp = 79° - 81°
pH = 7.85 - 8.2
Ca = 420

Have a nice day :D

-Scott

[melev]

Scott, there is a club in Las Vegas, and TippyToeX is the president. You might contact her/them in advance to ease the transition.

Your Calcium level is perfect where it is. You don't need it to go much higher, as long as your alkalinity and magnesium are on target.

I've got an article about moving tanks:

When it comes to moving a tank, whether that be across the room or across town, success can be assured by your preparations and anticipation for any problems that may occur during the transition. Special consideration should be given to the new location, to make sure all is ready. Electrical needs should already be met, and the floor should be stable and sturdy. Obstacles should be removed at all costs to avoid tripping over anything while carrying the tank, the stand or anything else related to the move.

Whenever I'm about to move a tank, the first thing I do is start making more water. Even if you save every drop, you'll need more water at the new location for sure. If your schedule allows for it, prepare a trashcan or two full of mixed saltwater and have it ready to use. New trashcans run about $7 each at Home Depot, and they make great mixing containers and are equally useful for the moving process itself. Using RO/DI water, salt, a powerhead and a heater, you can have about 30g of water on hand, or more if you set up more than one trashcan full of saltwater. The water should be mixed and waiting at the destination if at all possible.

If you happen to be moving from one house to another, odds are you'll have lots of moving boxes and furniture to deal with. This needs to either be done before or after the tank is moved. When it is time to move your livestock, everything else must be put on hold, or let someone else focus on the rest of the move so you can put all of your attention into getting the tank torn down and re-setup in the new location. Make sure nothing in is in your path that will make it difficult to move the tank, so that it can be done safely.

If your tank has a DSB (4" of sand) and it is over 6 months old, you shouldn't disturb it. Moving a tank full of sand is of course much heavier and there is the risk of flexing and damaging the tank. Sliding a board under the tank to support it fully would be one way of moving it, and you better have enough people to carry that load. Another option is to save a few cups from the upper layer in a ziplock bag, and toss the rest out. If you choose this route, then you have the option to really clean the tank well before setting it back up at the new location. It is always easiest to clean a tank outside with a garden hose, laying it on its side and spraying it out thoroughly. Each side can soak in a half inch of water, then be scraped clean and rinsed. Rotate the tank until all the walls are clean.

What about the livestock itself? You can bag up corals individually just like the LFS does when you purchased them originally. These can be placed carefully within ice chests (summer or winter) or empty salt buckets (spring and fall) to prevent their shifting and being damaged. Adequate water should be added to each bag, and the bags should be sealed to create a good bubble of protective space around the corals. You don't want to arrive at your destination with rubble, right? Working with a helper will speed things along. Using the $7 trashcans, you can pull out all the live rock and place it in these. As soon as you have the corals and rock out of your tank, drain some tank water into the trashcan(s) to keep the rock fully submerged. Wearing gloves while removing rock protects against cuts or brushes with bristleworms. Any rock that has corals attached can be stacked on top of other rock in the trashcan to avoid their being damaged. Add water until they are fully sumberged. The tank will be cloudy, but now all the fish can be netted out. These can be bagged individually or placed in one or more saltbuckets with tank water.

With the livestock in coolers, buckets and trashcans, it is time to move now! What is the weather like? Are you traveling with everything in the back of a pickup truck or U-haul trailer? Do what you have to to maintain reasonable temperatures for the fish and corals. Perhaps they would fit in with you in the passenger compartment. The live rock (LR) and water you've brought along will be okay if the travel time isn't too lengthy. If the drive is short, you might decide to move all livestock first, and come back for the tank on the next trip. When moving LR, trashcans should only be filled about 1/3 to 1/2 full of rock and water, as two people are able to move that without it being too heavy. At the destination, your livestock will need life support: airstones, heaters, & powerheads. If you opted to move the tank and livestock in one trip, the livestock gets precedence and once they are safely hooked up with some equipment witin the climate controlled home, you can proceed with moving in the stand, tank and canopy.

Setting up the tank anew is similar to setting up a new tank. Sand first, covered by a plastic trashbag, then a large serving platter, then a bowl. Using a large submersible pump and some tubing, pump the water into the bowl which will overflow onto the platter and finally the plastic barrier. This keeps the sand from blowing around. Once the tank is half filled, you can gently remove the bowl, platter and plastic, and start placing the LR in the tank again. Wearing gloves, shake the rock well in the trashcan it arrived in to release any trapped detritus, then place it in your tank. Getting the rock in the tank is important, avoiding any long durations exposing it to air. If it has corals on it, just put them to the side and then retrieve more rock to start your stack. Try to stack it so that it looks random, yet solid. Nature hates a straight line, so avoid creating a 'brick wall' look. Try to create caves, crevices and areas for water (and fish!) to flow through. The rock should not topple easily, as that could scratch the glass or acrylic viewing panels. Wave your hand strongly near the rock to see if it teeters. Leave enough room between the rock and the walls of the tank so that a cleaning magnet will fit without hitting.

Once all the rock has been placed in the tank, you can add in the fish, corals and more saltwater. This is why it is important to have new saltwater made up in advance at the right temperature, as the water the rock travelled in is now muddy from the shaking / rinsing and is full of waste. Next, Add powerheads, the heaters, filters, and turn everything on. The lights can be turned on a little later after you've had a little time to relax.

If you set up the aquarium with new sand, once everything has been put in, you can add the live sand you bagged up earlier. Just pour a cup of sand in a few different spots before the powerheads are turned on. Lower the cup or bag of sand down to the substrate and pour it out gently. It is okay for this sand to form little mounds, and there is no reason to stir it in nor the need to level it out. You want the micro-fauna to be able to scurry deeply into the grains of sand, and once you turn on the powerheads a few minutes later, the sand will begin to level out naturally.

Be sure to test the water daily, watching for ammonia, nitrate, or phosphate spikes. There are products that you can use to reduce these if necessary. Matter of fact, keep a bottle of Seachem's Prime on hand as it is great in an emergency to lower toxicity in the tank. Phosphate sponges can remove these as well.

Things to have on hand:

* Plenty of towels
* Pumps and long tubing to pump water out or back into the tank
* Extension cords
* Thermometer to make sure the livestock's water is staying stable around 78° to 82° F
* Hydrometer/Refractometer to check salinity
* Nets & gloves
* Dollies & furniture sliders
* Shims to level the tank
* Bags, Buckets, trashcans, rubbermaid containers to transfer livestock and equipment
* Test kits, Prime
* Helpers!!! Have a few; they can fetch, carry, help as needed - feed as necessary.

If you follow these guidelines, moving a tank can be done successfully and with careful attention, all the livestock should survive the trip and continue to thrive in their new location.

[scbauer]

Hey Marc, thanks for the tips. I've actually moved a tank across country before, but I did it by down-sizing the tank into an eclipse 12 and just placing the entire tank in the front seat of my car. :)

For this upcoming move, I have a couple of concerns. First, I've never moved an established DSB. While mine may not be "established", it is certainly full of life. With that in mind, I would like to transport everything without removing the sand. The idea would be something like this: (obviously a very simplified version)

1) Remove Rock & Corals - place in rubbermaid trashcan 1/3 full of tank water
2) Remove Fish - place in 5-gallon salt bucket 3/4 full with tank water
3) Remove remaining tank water and place in rubbermaid trashcan
4) Close all ball valves related to closed-loop and return
5) Remove pumps and pipes related to closed-loop and return
6) Tank and stand will be ready to move... they must move together.
7) Carefully bring rubbermaid trashcans and the tank/stand/sump combo down from second floor to awaiting U-haul trailer.
8) Tie EVERYTHING down very well (this step will take some advanced planning)
9) Go back and clean everything up.
10) Get in car and drive
11) 8 to 10 hours later, we'll be in Vegas
12) Bring both trashcans into new house and put powerheads in each container
13) Unload tank/stand/sump combo and place in the proper location
14) Re-attach all pipes, pumps, etc... Double-check plumbing
15) Carefully add water back to the tank, then rock
16) Plug in all electrical stuff and turn the system on.
17) Check for leaks
18) Re-introduce fish
19) Install ceiling-mounted MH pendant but don't turn on (let fish rest until morning, then light fires again)
20) Relax and clean

The biggest concern I have is what to do with the sand. My feeling is I should take all the water out and just leave the sand wet with no water on top to disturb the sand. The concern is that the sand will get cold in a short period of time (especially if it is around 40° outside).

The other concern has to do with the order in which everything is done. I think the best plan would be for me to move everything I can from Tahoe to Vegas and leave the tank running by itself in the apartment. Then I would come back a few days later, spend the night, pack up the next morning and go with just the tank to worry about. What do you think? Or would it be better to try to move the tank first, then come back and move the rest of the stuff?

Thoughts?

-Scott

[gkarshens]

I say move the tank last. That way you will know exactly where you want to put it and won't have to move it around the house. Plus you are less likely to hit it while moving other furniture.

[melev]

I'm concerned about moving livestock in a bucket for 8 to 10 hours. Will the fish get along in the bucket, or will you divide them up? Will they be bagged? If not, you might want a battery powered air pump to keep oxygen up, and perhaps add some Prime to deal with ammonia levels. Insulate the bucket to maintain temperature.

The sandbed should be fine for the most part. If you can get your hands on some insulation boxes, you can keep it in that, and seal it well with tape to trap the temperature for the drive.

Whether you move the tank first or last, what is important is that you ony focus on the tank for the day of that move. Nothing else should take your attention off that process.

[Dudester]

I'm not sure how long it will take you to perform step 9) Go back and clean everything up, but if you're planning on a thorough clean-up, you could save some time by hiring someone else to clean. Or, better yet, maybe some of your helpers could be bribed to clean for you with, say, a few 12 oz. beverages?

[scbauer]

Okay, the time has come... the move is next weekend. Almost everything in the apartment is already packed, so here is the plan.

Friday afternoon, pack all boxes/couch/bed/tv/etc into the truck. The plan is for all of the stuff from the apartment to occupy the front 2/3 of the truck. The back 1/3 will be for the fish tank only.

The idea is to empty the current tank water into two separate 30-gallon rubbermaid trash cans. If I take sand and rock into account, there is probably less than 30 gallons of total water volume in the tank, so the rubbermaid trash cans will probably have between 10 and 15 gallons of water in each (preferablly 10). If needed, I will have a third trash can on hand.

In one trash can, I will have fish, snails, hermits, rock, a heater, and a small powerhead (would a Mag 7 be too much?). In the second trash can, I'll have just tank water. The sand will remain in the tank wet, and hopefully it won't be too hard for two people to cary the tank/stand/sump combo.

Everything will be tied down tight so hopefully we'll avoid any spills. As for the fish getting along in the trash can (as Marc questioned above), I'm sure they'll be fine... they are all in a 30-gallon tank together with no problems.

Let me know what you guys think...

Oh yea, the guy at the U-haul store lost a few fish and an eel when moving his 55, so he is being really helpful. He is actually going to tap into the truck's electrical so that I can plug in a power inverter and run a pump and heater.

-Scott

[melev]

Sounds good to me. Just avoid any jarring stops or accidents. You might put tape around the top of the trashcan & lid to avoid water getting your bedding wet.

I would think a Mag 7 is too much. How about a Maxijet 1200? It only uses 21w of power. Its intake is small enough and with its basket no snails should clog it up.

[Dudester]

So how did the move go? Would you change anything about your plan now that it's over and you've had time to think about it?

[alien9168]

Its amazing to me the amount of time people must spend writng some of there posts--note: this is not a bad thing, it is definatly good--

I wish I had the time and patients to write the helpful essays that some people post. :D

Its certainly admirable. :)

-alien

[melev]

Alien, you are not alone thinking such thoughts. A club member thought the same, and recently tried to document a project he did. As he did it, he found that his plans were better organized, it was relaxing, and he knew others were going to benefit from his first-hand experience. He's still updating that thread, and recently started a new one for a different project.

It really isn't all the time consuming, and it allows you to review what you've done thus far just like if you kept a journal. This is simply an online journal that others can read, and add valuable input that may help the hobbyist better succeed with their project(s).

[bcoons]

And there really are a bunch of us newbies reading these threads and learning all we can! :thumbsup:

[alien9168]

melev- I definatly think its valuab;e, and I have definatly seen thevalue of such journals...Im just admiring the effort invested in them :D

But your def. correct they do benifit everyone.

And coons- were all newbies--in the sense that we can never learn too much(at least i know i cant) :D

-alien

[scbauer]

Well, for all the newbies reading this, I would recommend not doing what I did. I'm heading out of town for the weekend, but I am very sad in reporting that I lost everything in my move. I'll post more details when I return Sunday night, but long story short, the heater I was using failed and the water temp went WAY down (probably in the 40's) before I even knew it. Once I realized it, it was too late. I've been spending the last week contemplating whether or not I should start back up. Out of frustration, I dumpped my rock and sand, so I'll probably end up selling everything and pick the hobby back up in a few years (in good fashion, of course, with an in-wall 200+ gallon setup).

I'll let everyone know the details when I return, but for now... that's all the bad news I have.

-Scott

[alien9168]

:(

-alien

[Dudester]

That sucks, bro. I'm going to Las Vegas tomorrow and was going to see if I could drop by and check out the system. So sorry for your losses!

[Kigs]

I'm so sorry to hear that.

[melev]

I'm sorry too! Darn those heaters. The same thing happened to Loserkidz, losing corals during his long drive to Tx. Perhaps it would be better to put them in a perforated PVC pipe to protect it from impact during the drive, or use a Hydor heater as they are advertised as unbreakable. Was it a power issue, or did it actually break?

Hang in there. I know you are miserable about the losses, but in a week or two you'll feel better and start looking for new stuff I bet.

[Stile2]

Bummer, really sorry for your loss. :sad1:

Keith

[tangreef68]

For the Ca reactor, I want to build something simple, somewhat cheap (that's not the most important factor), and SMALL (that is the most important factor). I'm thinking about using a 2" or 3" diameter chamber for media, my old Mag7 for recirculation, and a little (20 oz) paintball CO2 tank. You can either help me out here, or check out the thread I started here:
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=743184

I've been reading a few threads about building a Ca reactor, and am rather excited about building something that works and is VERY small. Efficiency is not the most important thing for this Ca reactor since I don't thing my calcium needs are very high in this tank.

Okay, let's get this thread alive and kickin' again...

-Scott

I have heard bad things of people using paintball co2 cans. They contains oils that can be harmful to your fish and corals.